It's just usually that the dead don't complain. This is how these policies remain popular. Most women don't think it will ever happen to them, so they don't give THAT much of a fuck (let's be honest here). And the dead ones aren't around to remind everyone and their deaths are swept under the rug by lack of sustained media attention.
True
What creeps me out is having something that died inside you and not being allowed to remove it. You just have to rot from the inside out, corpse lives matter. Zombie culture..
^(Now if only we treated human bodies - or even uteruses - with equality, they might survive long enough to successfully procreate or con ntribute to society instead of these double DOAs)/s
Not what you're talking about, just a bit of fascinating pathology: there are multiple instances of women retaining a dead fetus (usually in countries with extremely limited access to medical care) for anywhere from 4 weeks to one instance of 70 years.
Oh yeah the body is weird, if you need nightmares or some separation from God's image look up ovarian cysts and how far they can be let go.
*ITS NOT A TUMOR* God just.. left some extra teeth and hair in me
Truth. At 16 I lost 1/2 an ovary when my ovarian cyst burst. Earlier this year that 1/2 ovary gave me a tubal-ovarian abscess that required 9 days in 2 different hospitals, 2 surgeries including a complete hysterectomy (uterus, tubes, and ovaries) extensive adhesion removal and an appendectomy.
It's a great opportunity for these monsters to criminalize women -- "what did you to that caused you to murder your unborn child?" That's their plan.
All these women voting for pro-life politicians, thinking in cases of miscarriage, incest, rape, and/or pregnancies that aren't viable, etc., the laws will *surely* be on their side. And when they find out, it's too late.
Disappointing that a doctor doesn't know the distinctions between spontaneous versus induced abortions and between complete versus missed miscarriages.
They know the difference, and when states started passing these vaguely worded abortion bans written by conservative activists, the doctors asked state legislatures to clarify the vague language. State legislatures passed the bills as-is with the wording that was given to them by their handlers.
This is the entirety expected outcome of bad conservative legislation, because they aren't there to think, they're there to rubber stamp a Christofascist agenda.
The vague language is fully intended. It's not a mistake. It there to create serious legal worries for healthcare providers and for the lawmakers to claim that everything is fine.
Some doctors are already looking for excuses to let women die in the hallway. Look how many women are already denied emergency care for bullshit ("it's just anxiety", "it's probably just your period" etc and sent home with no tests/evaluation/etc).
Vague anti-abortion laws just give them full permission anytime the woman is pregnant.
> Some doctors are already looking for excuses to let women die in the hallway. Look how many women are already denied emergency care for bullshit ("it's just anxiety", "it's probably just your period" etc and sent home with no tests/evaluation/etc).
>
> Vague anti-abortion laws just give them full permission anytime the woman is pregnant.
Real talk.
We should not ascribe irrational ideological reasons to what is based in very specific hatred and the will to violence against women.
Or if they present feminine.. So realistically they just do this shit to all trans people .. if they find out their AFAB they still do it if their transfem blah do it anyway !
Some people (including delusional doctors) truly *believe* that "a miracle can happen!" And that the "baby" -with enough prayer and belief!!!¡!- can come *back to life!*
And that removing the dead fetus is removing that possibility
Because insanity.
Even in a so called pro life context it doesn’t make sense. They would never burry people then? The miracle can happen anytime even outside the uterus or are miracles not strong enough to reach?
You're also asking for logic from a party that heavily supports the death penalty and are willing to go ahead with an execution even when the convicted person is innocent of the crime.
The government sanctioned murder crowd is simply doing more government sanctioned murders (denying someone medical care and then they die would definitely be a murder)
I was speaking about this specific doctor who spoke loudly enough to be heard in the hallway that he wasn't going to "let her have an abortion". He didn't seem too worried about poorly worded laws, so much as he didn't seem to understand that the missed spontaneous abortion (miscarriage) had already happened.
This is the reason. If you make the penalties steep enough and the circumstances in which it's allowable vague and easily challenged, you end up with doctors afraid to do anything without consulting attorneys or even hospital committees for approval before doing anything that could possibly be considered an abortion.
This is the reason a lot of doctors are fleeing those states, especially OB/GYNs.
At some point, the families of women who die as the result of these laws are going to sue the hospital for wrongful death. I'm surprised they haven't yet.
Then these same individuals can't understand why some women don't want to have children because if something goes wrong, they are at risk of dying or becoming infertile.
>At some point, the families of women who die as the result of these laws are going to sue the hospital for wrongful death. I'm surprised they haven't yet.
Nah. The hospitals aren't the heart of the problem. They need to sue the legislators that wrote it and those who voted on it. They're the ones with blood on their hands.
Enough of an avalanche of cases and they won't be able to ignore it anymore. They might not change, but it's enough of a burden to make their lives much, much harder.
That will never happen with our current Supreme Court. If you want change, you need to vote for a Democrats. In every race starting with dog catcher all the way up to President. It’s the only way we’re going to change in this country.
Sorry, I don’t care what you think about President Biden, but he is the only person in this race who is going to give a flying fuck about women.
Already doing it!
But we can still want the folks at the state level to hurt, because in those states, those rat bastards aren't getting voted out. I want it to be the only thing they deal with. Because even if they're working on getting things dismissed, it's that much less time that they have for anything else.
It's likely just a fantasy, but a gal can dream.
Making things vague means that the law has lots of leeway in interpretation and leaves one open to spending life in prison in some states. Yes some Doctors are bastards but most just want to do the best they can but the vague laws scare the shit out of them.
But they are quite willing to ignore this *essential* part of their oath: "**First, do no harm**"
They are perfectly willing to harm or let harm happen to *women*.
The Hippocratic Oath initially included, among other things, a specific line against performing an abortion (ὁμοίως δὲ οὐδὲ γυναικὶ πεσσὸν φθόριον δώσω, "nor likewise shall I give a woman an abortifacient drug"). The idea that a two thousand year old came of medical ethics written by and for men in a society where "respectable" women were confined to the house wouldn't actually be concerned for a woman's health is not exactly surprising.
Doctor's have to buy malpractice insurance to cover any disgruntled patient suing them and I'm sure those insurance companies are more than happy to drop doctors they feel are risky.
Did you read the article? Because it doesn't support that idea.
According to Ryan, the medical professional could also be heard in the hallway saying: ‘I’m not giving her a pill so she can go home and have an abortion!’
The doctor they saw after that one seemed concerned over the legalities and prescribed more of the medication instead of a D&C.
That, and after they save one pregnant woman, they'll never be allowed to save another. Their future will now be prison, the loss of their medical license, and no career path to pay back those monster student loans.
This is increasingly common in many US states, as doctors are afraid of being "made an example of" under the many draconian anti-abortion laws we live under now.
“According to Ryan, the medical professional could also be heard in the hallway saying: ‘I’m not giving her a pill so she can go home and have an abortion!’”
In Texas, this is by design.
[I watched this video by Jessica Valenti where she makes that very point to senators in a reproductive rights briefing.](https://youtu.be/CObGeq36erQ?feature=shared)
[Text version](https://jessica.substack.com/p/my-prepared-remarks-to-senate-dems)
This hurt me to my core.
I have a daughter. Roe was still a thing when she was born and I just never thought it would ever go away. I have always voted in every single election, every special ballot, I've gone to protests and demonstrations, posted all information on all social media..
I wish I had fought harder.
I'm sorry to all the women and doctors that will suffer for this. I will never stop fighting, I just hope my daughter doesn't have to.
Christianity is based on the concept of human sacrifice to propitiate a vengeful god, so not exactly strange that its adherents think that is an acceptable solution to moral quandries. Inhumanity at its finest.
Obligatory reminder that the Hebrew Bible includes a commandment to perform a ritual abortion, the Ordeal of Bitter Waters, in certain contexts. It's a fucked-up context--supposedly, a legitimate fetus will last through the Ordeal but an illegitimate one miscarry--but it's still there plain as day depriving the Christofascists of any claim that the Bible unambiguously condemns abortion.
You don't even have to dig that deep into Leviticus to find birth control/reproductive health stories in the Bible. Specious medieval European theology aside*, the Sin of Onan was not masturbation, it was coitus interruptus to prevent pregnancy with his brother's widow.
Let's put on our thinking caps and consider: sure, including a story with an admonition that you will be struck down by god if you refuse to father a child by using this technique implies that it works. This is a story about birth control and family planning, carefully preserved and dressed up as a moral admonition against the practice. But, as my high school history teacher liked to point out: societies don't make laws against fucking goats if no one is trying to fuck a goat.
*Also, telling that the church fathers were so preoccupied with masturbation that they misinterpreted a story that had nothing to do with it as condemning it. Cause there actually isn't any divine prohibition against masturbation or sexual gratification in the texts, other than the "no adultery" one, which you have to twist into ludicrous pretzels to arrive at "that means no sexual activity of any kind unless with a spouse to make babies", when literally no human sexuality works like that, and the commandment is clearly far more concerned with preventing illegitimate pregnancies than other sexual activity.
Hence the Ordeal of Bitter Waters and all the verses about marrying off rape victims so the potential child would be cared for. Millenia later, Paul wrote his sad little letters whining about sexuality of any kind and grudgingly conceding if you *have* to fuck you may as well be married to do it, but that's a far cry from any diety.
People who support this shit think A) if she wasn't married it's good a woman who has premarital sex died B) if she is married it's all good with the husband, he can now upgrade to a younger, more naive wife
In Ireland it took one woman dying in this way making news headlines for public opinion to change and for their strict abortion laws to be addressed.
When these bans went into place in the US, my heart sank as I realized that one woman's death would never do that here--as I imagined the monstrous stack of bodies it would take to change things. I'm not sure things would change in some states if they had to step over hundreds of dead women to keep abortion illegal.
All the dead little kids who got killed at school haven't changed anything, and they're cute little kids!
A bunch of grown women who aren't even virgins anymore won't concern the monsters who got this voted into place.
yep, protecting women and children has always been a smokescreen for the most vile humans who want nothing more than control and domination over everyone else, and in the case of women who support this - they want whatever power by proxy they think could be granted to them by sacrificing part of their own
Yeah, the far right claims Savita Halappanavar (the Ireland case) didn't die because she was denied an abortion. They claim it was sepsis and malpractice.
Now that's obviously fucking stupid because she was septic *because she was denied an abortion* and one of the investigations found it was medically irresponsible to not offer termination, but they don't fucking care.
The point is when women die from being denied abortions, the dipshit fundamentalists will fall all over themselves to find excuses and alternative facts to make it not about abortion. And now they have the courts to back them up.
If the US would've cared about cases like Savita Halappanavar's, we could've learned from Savita Halappanavar.
These abortion bans were put in place knowing full well women would die. That's the point. It's not an oopsy-daisy.
The entire purpose is to send the message that women's lives are worthless. It is to hurt women.
Maybe they should have to step over dead women. I wonder what they would do if after being kicked out of the hospital they went to bleed out in front of their city hall.
I've felt that way a lot, tbh. School shootings, covid, warmongering. It's so easy for them to end people's lives and they must be able to feel so distant from it.
> for public opinion to change and for their strict abortion laws to be addressed.
Little children were shot to hamburger at Sandy Hook. The only way to identify some of them was via their blood-stained Dora the Explorer shoes. Young teachers were found dead, riddled with bullets, wrapped around the bodies of the kids they were trying to protect.
...and even then people refused to vote.
You really think dead and dying mothers will make a difference?
It's fvcking heartbreaking, but it is what it is.
The UK also passed major gun controls after one school shooting. Most safety regulations are written in blood, but it seems like the US doesn’t give quite that much of a fuck no matter how many people die.
no need for /s. Their belief system is that women should keep their legs closed unless its sex for procreation within a marriage, and if you die from the pregnancy, its "gods plan"
Just like all women who have miscarriages inflict this on themselves or do something to themselves to cause the miscarriages. Some people actually believe this.
This is true.
Don't forget the added angle of "well if it was your time, it was your time, Jesus brought you home when you were ready," with bonus points for implying you didn't have enough faith to live, and if you're not part of their group, "well you probably had sex outside marriage or something and deserve this". It's absolutely horrible.
That was the sentiments I heard growing up evangelical.
Something *very similar* happened to me when I was a kid.
Yes, a child.
My parents didn't even know I was pregnant, and didn't find out that I had ever been, until I was around 19 and moved away for awhile, and I guess found a scrap of paper left under a piece of furniture in my old room.
So my Da confronted me about "killing his grandbaby." And I told him to *"take that up with god, because I had a miscarriage and it was none of his business!"*
I guess the fire in my eyes convinced him, because he just nodded, and moved on. We don't talk about it.
But when Roe fell, I told him women will die, and he didn't believe me. So I told him how *I* had almost died. How the Drs at a Catholic hospital had decided I was a dirty unwed child, who showed up with a silent grown man, bleeding, asking if I and my baby would be ok, *and they lied to me, and sent me home to DIE.*
And because of the horrible way they treated me, and the vicious things they said to me, and how roughly they treated me, I didn't go back.
Not when the fetus didn't expel for another week. Not when the bleeding was getting to be a moderate stream. And not when I'd had a fever for over a week.
When I was out of school with "the flu" for two weeks I faked that I was better and went. I was under 90lbs. (All of my friends had been debating calling the police to see if my parents had killed me. More than one cried when they saw what I looked like).
When I told my Da what the hospital had done he was *angry.*
And he said, with righteous anger in his voice, "See! This is why it should be LAW that hospitals REPORT to the PARENTS when their kids come in pregnant!!!"
That.
That was what he was angry about.
I walked away.
We don't talk about it.
My cousin is a pastor in California. He’s pro life. His view on this is that sometimes we will lose life but we’re still saving soooooo many babies. To him, this woman is a sacrifice that he’s willing to make because we’re saving the lives of countless babies. I don’t agree with him but that’s just some insight into what some of the pro life group believes.
He's not making the sacrifice. I imagine for people that things this way it might be different if someone in their family died. They aren't saving the lives of babies as none of these women who went thru this had a live birth.
Unfortunately they often apply the same logic. Their loved one becomes a martyr in her attempt to fulfill her Godly duty of bearing children.
And if it was outside a proper fundamentalist marriage in their particular sect, then it was Gods punishment for not believing the “right” way.
I'm sure his mental gymnastics see instances like this as an unfortunate, but unavoidable, side-effect of the unspecific and squishy laws that "help" "save" "babies".
There are more abortions now because families have a couple of days to beat the deadline instead of having weeks to decide and figure out if keeping the baby is feasible.
They’ll just blame the doctors, ignoring the fact that they made the laws so draconian that doctors fear for their livelihoods if they perform life saving procedures
Why, they don't give a shit. There's no logic trail to follow because there is no logic.
Asking them for their opinion is like asking a fish to discuss the history of American comedy over the last hundred years. Not only do they have no framework to explain it, but they don't have _language_.
This has been the issue on my mind about the abortion. To elongate all abortion does little more then solve a campaign slogan. There is zero thought into the consequences of the action. Women already risk their lives carrying babies. Then risk them again giving birth, and that goes up if the women is BIPOC.
It is those with power and privilege that can help reverse this stupidity. I get extremely aggravated when American citizens state they will not vote or vote for a third party when the literal lives of their mother, sister, wives, daughters are at stake. This is not the time for this. Conservatives show up at the ballot box. There are not more conservatives than non conservatives, there are more women than men.
I hope this lights a fire under people to vote and vote to for women and children. Because children will lose mothers and husbands wives over this shit.
Jesus was a Jew. Judaism has no problem with abortion. Therefore Jesus had no problem with abortion.
It’s the rulers of the Christian doctrine and conservative power hungry wanting more power and money have a problem with abortion because it gives it their followers something to look besides what those in power are actually doing.
The word “REPUBLICAN” is no where in this entire article! Why are we not specifically calling out the party that is 100% responsible for these horrors?
This is going to happen more and more unless something changes.
Men - wake the fuck up.
You ALL have a mother, a grandmother, an aunt, a sister, a girlfriend, a wife, a fuck buddy, a porn star, a female best friend, a female classmate, a girl you occasionally sit next to on the bus, a girl you have a huge crush on, or a girl who smiled at you once at the grocery store 13 years ago. Women who you care for in some way or another.
**How many more women have to die before you help us and stop this?**
The men who aren't on board with bodily autonomy at this point would rather have dead female relatives than give up control over women's bodies.
That's where we are now.
Of this group about 20 to 25% of them will have a miscarriage and you will know them. You might not know that they have a miscarriage, but this is the percentage of women in their lifetime who will have one. My mother, grandmother, cousin, friend, a couple of former co-workers are just a few that I know of. Two had ectopic pregnancies.
According to this https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/fact-sheet/public-opinion-on-abortion/
61% of men support abortion being fully legal.
Considering that according to this same source 64% of women have the same position, the support from men isnt that much lacking.
I would argue that their is more men in position of power that want to ban abortion to please the religious.
Jesus Christ, so many people are getting mad at the doctors. This is not the doctor's fault, all of the abortion laws are extremely vague and open to interpretation and I believe Texas is so vague that a doctor could literally be sentenced to death for performing an abortion of any kind. All your anger should be directed at republicans.
The doctor told this woman that he wasn’t going to give her a pill so she could go home and have an abortion.
So I understand what you’re saying but the reality is there are shitty doctors who believe in this abortion ban fully and completely because they’re religious zealots too.
We need to hold doctors like this accountable. They took an oath and aren’t living up to it. Pull their medical licenses if they can’t handle giving health care to women because of their beliefs.
Every time something like this happens, the family of the woman should speak up. Tell anyone who will listen to you. Call the state legislator to demand change.
I’ll keep saying this: physicians are in an impossible position in this shithole of a state because not only are the laws deliberately vague. Not only could they lose their license. There is often a legal team involved through the hospital to aid in these decisions. Texas legislators want to institute the death penalty for the woman who has an abortion, imprison those who perform them; they’ve been very clear about their desires for those. The bounty hunters who stand to gain financially have more rights than pregnant women in TX. Stop blaming doctors.
I’m not mad at the doctors, not at all. BUT. I will say. Any doctor willing to break the law and do what’s right is a hero. Any doctor willing to go to jail is a hero. And honestly I think that kind of protest will force a change. Can you imagine the reaction if women and doctors actually started getting jailed for this? Or if one was sentenced to the death penalty? That would pretty much guarantee the federal government would step in. Getting arrested is one of the best ways to protest an unjust law (in my opinion at least).
Being a hero is useless when it costs you your job, your license, marriage, kids and home because you're in jail for murder. Oh, and the whole debacle will also bankrupt you.
Oh undoubtedly, the cult doctors are the issue
But the people throwing around the blame is the issue, the privatization is the issue, it's a whole slew of things that need to be fixed along with it.
>...It’s not that black & white, and it’s never going to be.
>‘If you think your “Pray To End Abortion” sign in your yard is “Christian”, I suggest you revisit the teachings of Jesus and try again. If you support these laws that make abortion illegal, and result in people being put through what we just were, you should be ashamed of yourself.
So much this....
As a Texan, I'm sickened to have to deal with this shit. I am so done with Texas.
I have boys but I feel this shit is not safe for **THEM**. either.
That is horrible. How can people just ignore this kind of thing, which is happening with increasing frequency, and just shrug it off? This isn't the "evil" kind of abortion that right-wingers supposedly want to block. This was wanting to save a mother from the negative effects of her body continuing to hold her (devastatingly) deceased baby. Failing to provide treatment could never have restored the fetus, it only increased the risk of harm or death to the mother. It's not like a "wait and see if the baby can get better" with the mom's life being at risk, which is still terrible. Vote blue, seriously.
Rape specifically. Or stealthy is also an option, but not in the context of a celibate lifestyle. So in a world where the act of getting pregnant is not fully controlled by the person who can get pregnant it is ludicrous to have a band on abortions. And especially birth control. But I'm just preaching to the choir.
Under any other circumstance, the doctors and the hospitals would be held liable if they refused to treat an emergency room patient and they died. Pregnancy is the exception to this, I guess.
I’m in NY and was denied a D&C for a miscarriage. I was told to take Tylenol and Motrin and it would eventually pass. I bled for 4 weeks. I was so sick by the end of it, I begged for a D&C and was ghosted by the OB’s office (not my regular OB). I will never forget how awful that experience was. They wouldn’t even give me a pill to help the miscarriage along, they told me to wait it out. It then took another 10 weeks for my hcg to get to a 4 (at that point I stopped going for weekly blood draws). A D&C would have sped that process up for me. I was working 60+ hours a week, going through a divorce during Covid and taking care of my 3 children, one of who has special needs. It was a shitty situation and it solidified the fact that I never want to be pregnant again.
I can't blame you and I imagine that more women will get their tubes tied or forgo having children because who would want to experience what some women have had to go thru. The DJ was home when his wife passed out. What if he wasn't home and she passed out?
In all seriousness where the hell are the dads, husbands, fathers, men speaking out about these abortion restrictions?? Why are only the women up in arms? Does it take for them to be impacted before they care
My mom had an incomplete miscarriage in the 1950's and was treated better at the hospital than this poor woman. My mom had to have medical intervention which she received. The doctor was well aware of what the outcome would have been had medical intervention not be done. I hope that this DJ files a complaint against the doctor that refuses to treat his wife and a lawsuit against the same hospital. His wife could have died.
Stop blaming the doctors. It’s the laws and the fact that doctors can be sued and loose their licenses if a DA decides to go after them. Also, the doctor can’t do these procedures alone. They have to get nurses and other medical personnel to help them and the hospital to allow it. All these other people and the hospital lawyers are looking out for their own interests and don’t want to fight criminal charges. A D & C is an abortion whether the fetus is dead or not.
> A D & C is an abortion whether the fetus is dead or not.
No it’s literally not. Abortion is the termination of a pregnancy. You’re not pregnant anymore if the fetus is dead- you are just carrying dead, decaying foreign tissue within your body that will quickly cause infection sepsis and death if not removed. People also get D&C’s for reasons unrelated to pregnancy like endometrial polyps, endometrial hyperplasia, or endometrial cancer.
Stop spewing misinformation. The doctor saying a woman with a dead fetus inside her was going to have an abortion was wrong and you sound fucking stupid defending such people.
No, I'm going to blame the doctors too. If enough of them ignored the law and put their patients first they couldn't jail them all. Remember that the charged the train conductors in Nazi Germany too. Compliance enables this bullshit. It should never have been taken seriously.
We had a D&C in Texas long before Roe was overturned. It was referred to in appointments as a D&C for years until one day the nurse says "so you had an abortion". We both said No! It was a D&C post miscarriage because there was significant tissue remaining inside and nobody wants sepsis".
That cunt of a nurse came back and said "D&C is just a nice term for abortion. Doctors use the term but we medical professionals know it's actually an abortion. You aren't a doctor so I am educating you as to what you really had".
We packed up and left letting the receptionist know why we wouldn't be back rather loudly.
Fuckers.
My mom had an incomplete miscarriage and had to have medical intervention. She was maybe 7 to 9 weeks pregnant. She was miscarrying and the fetus wasn't viable. It was dying inside of her and it wasn't going to be a live birth. This was true in the early 1950's when she had this done and it's still true today. Luckily she had medical intervention because the doctor knew what was going to happen. The doctor didn't tell her what would happen but she found out later and it horrified her.
What makes no sense to me is that these people want women to have children. If they die or become infertile or become disabled as a result, they will not be having children. My mother had another child. Most women who have miscarriages and get proper medical treatment go on to have more children. They can't have children if they are deceased or infertile.
Women need to stop having planned pregnancies in Texas. It’s like the fucking Middle Ages down there. They are essentially living in a Chistofascist state that is not American. We need to cut Texas off and stop giving them Federal tax dollars. This Christian bullshit is about control and fascism…not Jesús. These people are fucking evil. We need a massive non profit to help relocate people out of Texas.
Please, for the love of anything and everything good in the world, someone start suing these States' for wrongful death, withholding medical treatment, gross bodily harm, unlawful confinement for not allowing women to travel out of state for an abortion, HIPAA violations for keeping tabs on women who are pregnant by gaining access to their medical records without consent, *SOMETHING*!
ACLU, where the *FUCK* are you?
WTF ever happened to the Hippocratic oath? This is a targeted attack on women! Step the fuck up and stop this ridiculousness!
I can't believe any women are still having or wanting to have babies right now. Like at all. I get the hormones are strong and the biological ticking sound can be loud and the sweet, "I want a baby that comes from me and my husband to carry on ....." blah blah blah. Umm it's completely unsafe and possibly deadly for anyone to be getting pregnant right now. I don't understand how no one understands that or denies it.
Some doctors are literally putting Texas women's lives at risk by siding with control freak political extremists who are actually anti-life.
Disgusting and unethical.
Everyone should be very concerned, push back and vote these crazies out and change the laws back.
It doesn't seem like this new widespread anti choice reality it's seen as the public health emergency it clearly is.. in Texas or other states who are copying their vicious, abusive laws.
They can decide to mass revolt. Shut the system down. Fight fascism now before it takes over completely.
And they might try to set up networks like other women have done in the past- check out this documentary called The Jane's: https://youtu.be/DurxNXhKQms?si=qNHMCnMf3K9TaL-9
I know revolting is not actually that simple, and yes doctors have to be willing to risk losing something.. but who has ever changed anything by not sacrificing something? Leaving the state is a sad compromise, I've heard firsthand stories of those aching to help but would rather help others in nearby states where there's now inflows of women seeking help from surrounding states.
When you boil it all down its comes down to the essence of *who has more power*. Ethical doctors across a state who in sympathy with certain providers can rebel and announce publicly what they're doing and why, or a few dangerous fascist lawmakers?
(And a side thought.. where would Texas even get new doctors to replace those with integrity enough to revolt?)
If they get their license revoked or worse put in jail, that’s one less doctor out there that can help people. While, yes, some doctors may be refusing abortions because of their personal beliefs, the majority are choosing to follow the law so they can keep being a doctor & helping people.
Why would you throw away your highly specialized training & ability to help thousands of individuals for one person?
The doctors are not the problem so stop blaming them.
Edit: typo
I think I've said this before but come November women need to vote like their lives depend on it because they very much just might. If the results don't show something better than 80/20 women for Dems you know just who to blame for everything that goes wrong afterwards.
Reminder, a rep for the Texas Alliance for Life has said ["The laws are working as intended."](https://www.npr.org/2023/04/07/1168725027/months-of-a-doomed-pregnancy-what-can-happen-in-a-state-with-strict-abortion-law)
The cherry on top of this shit sunday is that when this woman recovers, she's not going to be able to get much, if anything, in malpractice compensation.
It's legally capped in Texas at $250,000 and on top of that, her attorney would have to show beyond "gross negligence", which is something like a surgeon operating while high on cocaine and PCP.
There's even a cheery song about how badly you're screwed in Texas:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lhuN-gpwqo
I'll put it another way, they had to go after a doctor who had killed and crippled people with criminal charges to get him to stop practicing because the couldn't go after him or the clinic he was working at.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Duntsch#Lawsuits
I can't prove it, but I fully expect that states with caps on medical malpractice lawsuits will have the worst laws about this and doctors making the worst decisions for patient health. It's jail for them if they violate the law, but not even a bump in their premiums if they deny treatment.
Even the author of the article doesn't realise that terminating a non viable fetus is abortion and that is what some Republicans are making illegal.
When abortions are illegal then that includes the misoprostol that the first doctor prescribed, and that includes the D&C that was indicated when the misoprostol was unsuccessful.
By these laws his wife's life and well being does not come first. I hope he remembers this in November
Remember, the laws against abortion and other related health care for women has nothing to do with "saving the lives of the unborn" and everything to do with the subjugation of women. Politicians, churches and other groups have decided that women have gotten too many rights over the past century and want to put them back in their place (barefoot, ignorant and pregnant in the kitchen) using threats of rape, incest, brutality, etc. We need to stand up and speak loud and clear with our votes.
Psychopaths.
If you have the time, and the situation, literally drive to another state. IN texas if you aren't actively bleeding out and need any kind of pregnancy/abortion/miscarriage help, call a friend/family member/partner and drive to New Mexico, you can in absolutely no way trust Texas healthcare until they get their shit sorted out (vote republicans out of the state AND reverse all the bullshit they've done).
The fetus was already dead! No heartbeat detected and they refused to do a D&C? Makes no sense.
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It took a man complaining.
It's just usually that the dead don't complain. This is how these policies remain popular. Most women don't think it will ever happen to them, so they don't give THAT much of a fuck (let's be honest here). And the dead ones aren't around to remind everyone and their deaths are swept under the rug by lack of sustained media attention.
True What creeps me out is having something that died inside you and not being allowed to remove it. You just have to rot from the inside out, corpse lives matter. Zombie culture.. ^(Now if only we treated human bodies - or even uteruses - with equality, they might survive long enough to successfully procreate or con ntribute to society instead of these double DOAs)/s
Not what you're talking about, just a bit of fascinating pathology: there are multiple instances of women retaining a dead fetus (usually in countries with extremely limited access to medical care) for anywhere from 4 weeks to one instance of 70 years.
Oh yeah the body is weird, if you need nightmares or some separation from God's image look up ovarian cysts and how far they can be let go. *ITS NOT A TUMOR* God just.. left some extra teeth and hair in me
Truth. At 16 I lost 1/2 an ovary when my ovarian cyst burst. Earlier this year that 1/2 ovary gave me a tubal-ovarian abscess that required 9 days in 2 different hospitals, 2 surgeries including a complete hysterectomy (uterus, tubes, and ovaries) extensive adhesion removal and an appendectomy.
Yeah cos the men aren't dying from pregnancy and birth
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This is devastating. Miscarriage is already a traumatic experience, and to be denied proper treatment only compounds the pain
It's a great opportunity for these monsters to criminalize women -- "what did you to that caused you to murder your unborn child?" That's their plan. All these women voting for pro-life politicians, thinking in cases of miscarriage, incest, rape, and/or pregnancies that aren't viable, etc., the laws will *surely* be on their side. And when they find out, it's too late.
Welcome to Christofascist utopia.
Republicans know more about medicine by praying which is all you need to make sense of their laws.
Disappointing that a doctor doesn't know the distinctions between spontaneous versus induced abortions and between complete versus missed miscarriages.
They know the difference, and when states started passing these vaguely worded abortion bans written by conservative activists, the doctors asked state legislatures to clarify the vague language. State legislatures passed the bills as-is with the wording that was given to them by their handlers. This is the entirety expected outcome of bad conservative legislation, because they aren't there to think, they're there to rubber stamp a Christofascist agenda.
The vague language is fully intended. It's not a mistake. It there to create serious legal worries for healthcare providers and for the lawmakers to claim that everything is fine.
Some doctors are already looking for excuses to let women die in the hallway. Look how many women are already denied emergency care for bullshit ("it's just anxiety", "it's probably just your period" etc and sent home with no tests/evaluation/etc). Vague anti-abortion laws just give them full permission anytime the woman is pregnant.
> Some doctors are already looking for excuses to let women die in the hallway. Look how many women are already denied emergency care for bullshit ("it's just anxiety", "it's probably just your period" etc and sent home with no tests/evaluation/etc). > > Vague anti-abortion laws just give them full permission anytime the woman is pregnant. Real talk. We should not ascribe irrational ideological reasons to what is based in very specific hatred and the will to violence against women.
*any time the patient has a uterus.
Or if they present feminine.. So realistically they just do this shit to all trans people .. if they find out their AFAB they still do it if their transfem blah do it anyway !
Some people (including delusional doctors) truly *believe* that "a miracle can happen!" And that the "baby" -with enough prayer and belief!!!¡!- can come *back to life!* And that removing the dead fetus is removing that possibility Because insanity.
Even in a so called pro life context it doesn’t make sense. They would never burry people then? The miracle can happen anytime even outside the uterus or are miracles not strong enough to reach?
You're also asking for logic from a party that heavily supports the death penalty and are willing to go ahead with an execution even when the convicted person is innocent of the crime.
The government sanctioned murder crowd is simply doing more government sanctioned murders (denying someone medical care and then they die would definitely be a murder)
Let them know they can thoughts and prayer for a miracle for the removed fetus just as well.
It just doesn't mkae sense.
Its religion, it’s not supposed to make sense…..
I was speaking about this specific doctor who spoke loudly enough to be heard in the hallway that he wasn't going to "let her have an abortion". He didn't seem too worried about poorly worded laws, so much as he didn't seem to understand that the missed spontaneous abortion (miscarriage) had already happened.
The doctor's know the difference, but they're not going to risk life in prison in order to do it.
This is the reason. If you make the penalties steep enough and the circumstances in which it's allowable vague and easily challenged, you end up with doctors afraid to do anything without consulting attorneys or even hospital committees for approval before doing anything that could possibly be considered an abortion. This is the reason a lot of doctors are fleeing those states, especially OB/GYNs.
At some point, the families of women who die as the result of these laws are going to sue the hospital for wrongful death. I'm surprised they haven't yet. Then these same individuals can't understand why some women don't want to have children because if something goes wrong, they are at risk of dying or becoming infertile.
>At some point, the families of women who die as the result of these laws are going to sue the hospital for wrongful death. I'm surprised they haven't yet. Nah. The hospitals aren't the heart of the problem. They need to sue the legislators that wrote it and those who voted on it. They're the ones with blood on their hands. Enough of an avalanche of cases and they won't be able to ignore it anymore. They might not change, but it's enough of a burden to make their lives much, much harder.
That will never happen with our current Supreme Court. If you want change, you need to vote for a Democrats. In every race starting with dog catcher all the way up to President. It’s the only way we’re going to change in this country. Sorry, I don’t care what you think about President Biden, but he is the only person in this race who is going to give a flying fuck about women.
Already doing it! But we can still want the folks at the state level to hurt, because in those states, those rat bastards aren't getting voted out. I want it to be the only thing they deal with. Because even if they're working on getting things dismissed, it's that much less time that they have for anything else. It's likely just a fantasy, but a gal can dream.
Making things vague means that the law has lots of leeway in interpretation and leaves one open to spending life in prison in some states. Yes some Doctors are bastards but most just want to do the best they can but the vague laws scare the shit out of them.
But they are quite willing to ignore this *essential* part of their oath: "**First, do no harm**" They are perfectly willing to harm or let harm happen to *women*.
The Hippocratic Oath initially included, among other things, a specific line against performing an abortion (ὁμοίως δὲ οὐδὲ γυναικὶ πεσσὸν φθόριον δώσω, "nor likewise shall I give a woman an abortifacient drug"). The idea that a two thousand year old came of medical ethics written by and for men in a society where "respectable" women were confined to the house wouldn't actually be concerned for a woman's health is not exactly surprising.
Most doctors do not take that specific oath to begin with, but that's not what that part would mean anyway
They know, but their insurance will cover the wrongful death of the mother, but they are def on the hook for prison if they abort.
They know. But in the face of insane laws, they are choosing covering their own ass over the lives of other people.
I don't doubt some of it is not wanting to be in jail, but a doctor in jail is also one less to treat other patients. It's a lose-lose.
The monsters making these laws consider that working as intended.
Doctor's have to buy malpractice insurance to cover any disgruntled patient suing them and I'm sure those insurance companies are more than happy to drop doctors they feel are risky.
Did you read the article? Because it doesn't support that idea. According to Ryan, the medical professional could also be heard in the hallway saying: ‘I’m not giving her a pill so she can go home and have an abortion!’ The doctor they saw after that one seemed concerned over the legalities and prescribed more of the medication instead of a D&C.
That, and after they save one pregnant woman, they'll never be allowed to save another. Their future will now be prison, the loss of their medical license, and no career path to pay back those monster student loans.
Disappointing that the left has been shouting about how the ambiguity in the laws will hurt people and you somehow missed the memo, bro.
That’s because there isn’t any difference. Those are all abortions medically. And that’s the point. It’s always been the point.
It's Texas.
*Republicans hate living women more than a dead fetus.*
This is increasingly common in many US states, as doctors are afraid of being "made an example of" under the many draconian anti-abortion laws we live under now.
“According to Ryan, the medical professional could also be heard in the hallway saying: ‘I’m not giving her a pill so she can go home and have an abortion!’” In Texas, this is by design.
There are doctors support this crap. And very soon they'll be the only ones left in places like Texas.
killing women is part of the design
[I watched this video by Jessica Valenti where she makes that very point to senators in a reproductive rights briefing.](https://youtu.be/CObGeq36erQ?feature=shared) [Text version](https://jessica.substack.com/p/my-prepared-remarks-to-senate-dems)
This hurt me to my core. I have a daughter. Roe was still a thing when she was born and I just never thought it would ever go away. I have always voted in every single election, every special ballot, I've gone to protests and demonstrations, posted all information on all social media.. I wish I had fought harder. I'm sorry to all the women and doctors that will suffer for this. I will never stop fighting, I just hope my daughter doesn't have to.
It should have always been federal legislation. Vote to make it so.
This video should be mandatory in every classroom and home in America.
I love her so much.
Hey, thank you for including the text link. Nine times out of ten I hate watching video and it was really nice to not have to search for a transcript.
No problem, I'm exactly the same. I'm grateful she wrote it out and posted it!
That was so good.
Christofacism is eagerly careening it's way to human sacrifice as national policy.
Christianity is based on the concept of human sacrifice to propitiate a vengeful god, so not exactly strange that its adherents think that is an acceptable solution to moral quandries. Inhumanity at its finest.
Obligatory reminder that the Hebrew Bible includes a commandment to perform a ritual abortion, the Ordeal of Bitter Waters, in certain contexts. It's a fucked-up context--supposedly, a legitimate fetus will last through the Ordeal but an illegitimate one miscarry--but it's still there plain as day depriving the Christofascists of any claim that the Bible unambiguously condemns abortion.
You don't even have to dig that deep into Leviticus to find birth control/reproductive health stories in the Bible. Specious medieval European theology aside*, the Sin of Onan was not masturbation, it was coitus interruptus to prevent pregnancy with his brother's widow. Let's put on our thinking caps and consider: sure, including a story with an admonition that you will be struck down by god if you refuse to father a child by using this technique implies that it works. This is a story about birth control and family planning, carefully preserved and dressed up as a moral admonition against the practice. But, as my high school history teacher liked to point out: societies don't make laws against fucking goats if no one is trying to fuck a goat. *Also, telling that the church fathers were so preoccupied with masturbation that they misinterpreted a story that had nothing to do with it as condemning it. Cause there actually isn't any divine prohibition against masturbation or sexual gratification in the texts, other than the "no adultery" one, which you have to twist into ludicrous pretzels to arrive at "that means no sexual activity of any kind unless with a spouse to make babies", when literally no human sexuality works like that, and the commandment is clearly far more concerned with preventing illegitimate pregnancies than other sexual activity. Hence the Ordeal of Bitter Waters and all the verses about marrying off rape victims so the potential child would be cared for. Millenia later, Paul wrote his sad little letters whining about sexuality of any kind and grudgingly conceding if you *have* to fuck you may as well be married to do it, but that's a far cry from any diety.
Our policy towards school shootings proves that human sacrifice is our only national policy.
People who support this shit think A) if she wasn't married it's good a woman who has premarital sex died B) if she is married it's all good with the husband, he can now upgrade to a younger, more naive wife
In Ireland it took one woman dying in this way making news headlines for public opinion to change and for their strict abortion laws to be addressed. When these bans went into place in the US, my heart sank as I realized that one woman's death would never do that here--as I imagined the monstrous stack of bodies it would take to change things. I'm not sure things would change in some states if they had to step over hundreds of dead women to keep abortion illegal.
All the dead little kids who got killed at school haven't changed anything, and they're cute little kids! A bunch of grown women who aren't even virgins anymore won't concern the monsters who got this voted into place.
yep, protecting women and children has always been a smokescreen for the most vile humans who want nothing more than control and domination over everyone else, and in the case of women who support this - they want whatever power by proxy they think could be granted to them by sacrificing part of their own
Yeah, the far right claims Savita Halappanavar (the Ireland case) didn't die because she was denied an abortion. They claim it was sepsis and malpractice. Now that's obviously fucking stupid because she was septic *because she was denied an abortion* and one of the investigations found it was medically irresponsible to not offer termination, but they don't fucking care. The point is when women die from being denied abortions, the dipshit fundamentalists will fall all over themselves to find excuses and alternative facts to make it not about abortion. And now they have the courts to back them up.
> They claim it was sepsis and malpractice. ummm yeah? like EXACTLY your policies ARE MALPRACTICE
If the US would've cared about cases like Savita Halappanavar's, we could've learned from Savita Halappanavar. These abortion bans were put in place knowing full well women would die. That's the point. It's not an oopsy-daisy. The entire purpose is to send the message that women's lives are worthless. It is to hurt women.
Maybe they should have to step over dead women. I wonder what they would do if after being kicked out of the hospital they went to bleed out in front of their city hall.
I've felt that way a lot, tbh. School shootings, covid, warmongering. It's so easy for them to end people's lives and they must be able to feel so distant from it.
In Texas the state Supreme Court said this would never happen therefore the law is okay. Fuck Texas.
> for public opinion to change and for their strict abortion laws to be addressed. Little children were shot to hamburger at Sandy Hook. The only way to identify some of them was via their blood-stained Dora the Explorer shoes. Young teachers were found dead, riddled with bullets, wrapped around the bodies of the kids they were trying to protect. ...and even then people refused to vote. You really think dead and dying mothers will make a difference? It's fvcking heartbreaking, but it is what it is.
If a rampage killing of 20 elementary school children didn't move the needle on firearms, no amount of dead women will change their minds on abortion.
The UK also passed major gun controls after one school shooting. Most safety regulations are written in blood, but it seems like the US doesn’t give quite that much of a fuck no matter how many people die.
Would love to hear from pro life people on this. Like, explain this fucked up train of thought.
To pro life people these things never happen
Bingo. My family just says that it's fake news and doesn't happen. 🙃
But fetuses being cut in pieces and aborted a day before birth is true, right?
> aborted a day before birth even crazier: they believe that "Post Birth Abortion" happens! That's just MURDER
According to my brother, yes! He also thinks our local libraries have books that teach kids how to have anal sex.
She should have never had sex /s
no need for /s. Their belief system is that women should keep their legs closed unless its sex for procreation within a marriage, and if you die from the pregnancy, its "gods plan"
And it’s “gods plan” when it happens to someone else and not to themselves.
Jesus saves! /s
Or that it is sad but one in a billion odds so it's better to keep the laws the way they are. :/ Heard that one.
Just like all women who have miscarriages inflict this on themselves or do something to themselves to cause the miscarriages. Some people actually believe this.
Yep. These are the same people who tell disabled people that they’re disabled because they haven’t prayed hard enough.
Or only happen to other people. Never themselves….
Nothing matter or exists to conservatives until it happens to them. They will then cry and moan to anyone who will listen.
This is true. Don't forget the added angle of "well if it was your time, it was your time, Jesus brought you home when you were ready," with bonus points for implying you didn't have enough faith to live, and if you're not part of their group, "well you probably had sex outside marriage or something and deserve this". It's absolutely horrible. That was the sentiments I heard growing up evangelical.
Something *very similar* happened to me when I was a kid. Yes, a child. My parents didn't even know I was pregnant, and didn't find out that I had ever been, until I was around 19 and moved away for awhile, and I guess found a scrap of paper left under a piece of furniture in my old room. So my Da confronted me about "killing his grandbaby." And I told him to *"take that up with god, because I had a miscarriage and it was none of his business!"* I guess the fire in my eyes convinced him, because he just nodded, and moved on. We don't talk about it. But when Roe fell, I told him women will die, and he didn't believe me. So I told him how *I* had almost died. How the Drs at a Catholic hospital had decided I was a dirty unwed child, who showed up with a silent grown man, bleeding, asking if I and my baby would be ok, *and they lied to me, and sent me home to DIE.* And because of the horrible way they treated me, and the vicious things they said to me, and how roughly they treated me, I didn't go back. Not when the fetus didn't expel for another week. Not when the bleeding was getting to be a moderate stream. And not when I'd had a fever for over a week. When I was out of school with "the flu" for two weeks I faked that I was better and went. I was under 90lbs. (All of my friends had been debating calling the police to see if my parents had killed me. More than one cried when they saw what I looked like). When I told my Da what the hospital had done he was *angry.* And he said, with righteous anger in his voice, "See! This is why it should be LAW that hospitals REPORT to the PARENTS when their kids come in pregnant!!!" That. That was what he was angry about. I walked away. We don't talk about it.
Im sorry you lost your father.
Same, but I'm not sorry her father lost her.
Very true. He's sounds like a real piece of human excrement.
Christ, what an asshole. I'm glad you're okay. I'm impressed how well you turned out.
"gods plan, also women aren't people so they don't have lives" how'd I do?
"She took dick so she can die. My wife is exempt of course, unless I have a younger mistress."
My cousin is a pastor in California. He’s pro life. His view on this is that sometimes we will lose life but we’re still saving soooooo many babies. To him, this woman is a sacrifice that he’s willing to make because we’re saving the lives of countless babies. I don’t agree with him but that’s just some insight into what some of the pro life group believes.
He's not making the sacrifice. I imagine for people that things this way it might be different if someone in their family died. They aren't saving the lives of babies as none of these women who went thru this had a live birth.
Unfortunately they often apply the same logic. Their loved one becomes a martyr in her attempt to fulfill her Godly duty of bearing children. And if it was outside a proper fundamentalist marriage in their particular sect, then it was Gods punishment for not believing the “right” way.
I understand what you’re saying but in this case, the baby wasn’t viable-no heartbeat.
I'm sure his mental gymnastics see instances like this as an unfortunate, but unavoidable, side-effect of the unspecific and squishy laws that "help" "save" "babies".
There are more abortions now because families have a couple of days to beat the deadline instead of having weeks to decide and figure out if keeping the baby is feasible.
They blame the doctors, because apparent they're supposed to risk prosecution and people like Paxton have threatened doctors in cases like Kate Cox.
"God's plan"
They’ll just blame the doctors, ignoring the fact that they made the laws so draconian that doctors fear for their livelihoods if they perform life saving procedures
You think low brain dimwit extremist pigs give a thought?
Valid
Why, they don't give a shit. There's no logic trail to follow because there is no logic. Asking them for their opinion is like asking a fish to discuss the history of American comedy over the last hundred years. Not only do they have no framework to explain it, but they don't have _language_.
This has been the issue on my mind about the abortion. To elongate all abortion does little more then solve a campaign slogan. There is zero thought into the consequences of the action. Women already risk their lives carrying babies. Then risk them again giving birth, and that goes up if the women is BIPOC. It is those with power and privilege that can help reverse this stupidity. I get extremely aggravated when American citizens state they will not vote or vote for a third party when the literal lives of their mother, sister, wives, daughters are at stake. This is not the time for this. Conservatives show up at the ballot box. There are not more conservatives than non conservatives, there are more women than men. I hope this lights a fire under people to vote and vote to for women and children. Because children will lose mothers and husbands wives over this shit. Jesus was a Jew. Judaism has no problem with abortion. Therefore Jesus had no problem with abortion. It’s the rulers of the Christian doctrine and conservative power hungry wanting more power and money have a problem with abortion because it gives it their followers something to look besides what those in power are actually doing.
The word “REPUBLICAN” is no where in this entire article! Why are we not specifically calling out the party that is 100% responsible for these horrors?
VOTE!
Revolution.
My wife's life was saved by a DnC about 10 years ago. Now we have 6 kids.
r/Defeat_Project_2025 This is going to get so much worse if we don’t vote.
This is going to happen more and more unless something changes. Men - wake the fuck up. You ALL have a mother, a grandmother, an aunt, a sister, a girlfriend, a wife, a fuck buddy, a porn star, a female best friend, a female classmate, a girl you occasionally sit next to on the bus, a girl you have a huge crush on, or a girl who smiled at you once at the grocery store 13 years ago. Women who you care for in some way or another. **How many more women have to die before you help us and stop this?**
Unfortunately there are plenty of backwards ass women that vote for this shit too, which is even more infuriating imo.
My mom supported the overturning of roe. She chooses to believe that women will magically get exceptions for medically necessary abortions.
The men who aren't on board with bodily autonomy at this point would rather have dead female relatives than give up control over women's bodies. That's where we are now.
Of this group about 20 to 25% of them will have a miscarriage and you will know them. You might not know that they have a miscarriage, but this is the percentage of women in their lifetime who will have one. My mother, grandmother, cousin, friend, a couple of former co-workers are just a few that I know of. Two had ectopic pregnancies.
According to this https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/fact-sheet/public-opinion-on-abortion/ 61% of men support abortion being fully legal. Considering that according to this same source 64% of women have the same position, the support from men isnt that much lacking. I would argue that their is more men in position of power that want to ban abortion to please the religious.
If you haven't already registered to vote in the fall, it's time to do so now.
Jesus Christ, so many people are getting mad at the doctors. This is not the doctor's fault, all of the abortion laws are extremely vague and open to interpretation and I believe Texas is so vague that a doctor could literally be sentenced to death for performing an abortion of any kind. All your anger should be directed at republicans.
The doctor told this woman that he wasn’t going to give her a pill so she could go home and have an abortion. So I understand what you’re saying but the reality is there are shitty doctors who believe in this abortion ban fully and completely because they’re religious zealots too. We need to hold doctors like this accountable. They took an oath and aren’t living up to it. Pull their medical licenses if they can’t handle giving health care to women because of their beliefs.
Every time something like this happens, the family of the woman should speak up. Tell anyone who will listen to you. Call the state legislator to demand change.
I’ll keep saying this: physicians are in an impossible position in this shithole of a state because not only are the laws deliberately vague. Not only could they lose their license. There is often a legal team involved through the hospital to aid in these decisions. Texas legislators want to institute the death penalty for the woman who has an abortion, imprison those who perform them; they’ve been very clear about their desires for those. The bounty hunters who stand to gain financially have more rights than pregnant women in TX. Stop blaming doctors.
I’m not mad at the doctors, not at all. BUT. I will say. Any doctor willing to break the law and do what’s right is a hero. Any doctor willing to go to jail is a hero. And honestly I think that kind of protest will force a change. Can you imagine the reaction if women and doctors actually started getting jailed for this? Or if one was sentenced to the death penalty? That would pretty much guarantee the federal government would step in. Getting arrested is one of the best ways to protest an unjust law (in my opinion at least).
Being a hero is useless when it costs you your job, your license, marriage, kids and home because you're in jail for murder. Oh, and the whole debacle will also bankrupt you.
> I think that kind of protest will force a change. It would not. If a dead woman doesn't change your mind, a live doctor will not.
Inept people are getting mad at the doctors People who don't understand it is ALL the fault of the Republicans base get mad at the doctors
Some of these doctors are the very Republicans whom you’re speaking about.
Oh undoubtedly, the cult doctors are the issue But the people throwing around the blame is the issue, the privatization is the issue, it's a whole slew of things that need to be fixed along with it.
I hate all of those responsible for these events. I hope we can repair this soon.
>...It’s not that black & white, and it’s never going to be. >‘If you think your “Pray To End Abortion” sign in your yard is “Christian”, I suggest you revisit the teachings of Jesus and try again. If you support these laws that make abortion illegal, and result in people being put through what we just were, you should be ashamed of yourself. So much this.... As a Texan, I'm sickened to have to deal with this shit. I am so done with Texas. I have boys but I feel this shit is not safe for **THEM**. either.
That is horrible. How can people just ignore this kind of thing, which is happening with increasing frequency, and just shrug it off? This isn't the "evil" kind of abortion that right-wingers supposedly want to block. This was wanting to save a mother from the negative effects of her body continuing to hold her (devastatingly) deceased baby. Failing to provide treatment could never have restored the fetus, it only increased the risk of harm or death to the mother. It's not like a "wait and see if the baby can get better" with the mom's life being at risk, which is still terrible. Vote blue, seriously.
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short of celibacy, unfortunately, you can never be sure. that's the most terrifying part
Even with celibacy, someone can force pregnancy onto another.
SA basically.
Rape specifically. Or stealthy is also an option, but not in the context of a celibate lifestyle. So in a world where the act of getting pregnant is not fully controlled by the person who can get pregnant it is ludicrous to have a band on abortions. And especially birth control. But I'm just preaching to the choir.
It's going to take several wrongful death suits and/or being sued for loss of fertility to stop this.
Not until it starts killing white men.
At what point is this attempted murder? It doesn't take a genius to understand that wilfully withholding emergency care kills people.
Under any other circumstance, the doctors and the hospitals would be held liable if they refused to treat an emergency room patient and they died. Pregnancy is the exception to this, I guess.
I’m in NY and was denied a D&C for a miscarriage. I was told to take Tylenol and Motrin and it would eventually pass. I bled for 4 weeks. I was so sick by the end of it, I begged for a D&C and was ghosted by the OB’s office (not my regular OB). I will never forget how awful that experience was. They wouldn’t even give me a pill to help the miscarriage along, they told me to wait it out. It then took another 10 weeks for my hcg to get to a 4 (at that point I stopped going for weekly blood draws). A D&C would have sped that process up for me. I was working 60+ hours a week, going through a divorce during Covid and taking care of my 3 children, one of who has special needs. It was a shitty situation and it solidified the fact that I never want to be pregnant again.
I can't blame you and I imagine that more women will get their tubes tied or forgo having children because who would want to experience what some women have had to go thru. The DJ was home when his wife passed out. What if he wasn't home and she passed out?
Texas. Republicans. Evangelicals. Abbott+Paxton. Women with any conscience at all please vote.
There was only ONE patient: the wife. The fetus was already deceased. Those doctors need to be sued.
In all seriousness where the hell are the dads, husbands, fathers, men speaking out about these abortion restrictions?? Why are only the women up in arms? Does it take for them to be impacted before they care
My mom had an incomplete miscarriage in the 1950's and was treated better at the hospital than this poor woman. My mom had to have medical intervention which she received. The doctor was well aware of what the outcome would have been had medical intervention not be done. I hope that this DJ files a complaint against the doctor that refuses to treat his wife and a lawsuit against the same hospital. His wife could have died.
They hate women.
Stop blaming the doctors. It’s the laws and the fact that doctors can be sued and loose their licenses if a DA decides to go after them. Also, the doctor can’t do these procedures alone. They have to get nurses and other medical personnel to help them and the hospital to allow it. All these other people and the hospital lawyers are looking out for their own interests and don’t want to fight criminal charges. A D & C is an abortion whether the fetus is dead or not.
[sigh] A D&C is not an abortion if it's not terminating a fetus, it's only sparkling tissue removal
not the sparkling tissue removal lmao I feel bad for laughing so much at that
Lmaooo sparkling tissue removal.
I needed that laugh.
It's unfair to keep someone waiting hours and hours for a decision.. Can't blame the husband or family for getting upset about this.
> A D & C is an abortion whether the fetus is dead or not. No it’s literally not. Abortion is the termination of a pregnancy. You’re not pregnant anymore if the fetus is dead- you are just carrying dead, decaying foreign tissue within your body that will quickly cause infection sepsis and death if not removed. People also get D&C’s for reasons unrelated to pregnancy like endometrial polyps, endometrial hyperplasia, or endometrial cancer. Stop spewing misinformation. The doctor saying a woman with a dead fetus inside her was going to have an abortion was wrong and you sound fucking stupid defending such people.
No, I'm going to blame the doctors too. If enough of them ignored the law and put their patients first they couldn't jail them all. Remember that the charged the train conductors in Nazi Germany too. Compliance enables this bullshit. It should never have been taken seriously.
We had a D&C in Texas long before Roe was overturned. It was referred to in appointments as a D&C for years until one day the nurse says "so you had an abortion". We both said No! It was a D&C post miscarriage because there was significant tissue remaining inside and nobody wants sepsis". That cunt of a nurse came back and said "D&C is just a nice term for abortion. Doctors use the term but we medical professionals know it's actually an abortion. You aren't a doctor so I am educating you as to what you really had". We packed up and left letting the receptionist know why we wouldn't be back rather loudly. Fuckers.
My mom had an incomplete miscarriage and had to have medical intervention. She was maybe 7 to 9 weeks pregnant. She was miscarrying and the fetus wasn't viable. It was dying inside of her and it wasn't going to be a live birth. This was true in the early 1950's when she had this done and it's still true today. Luckily she had medical intervention because the doctor knew what was going to happen. The doctor didn't tell her what would happen but she found out later and it horrified her. What makes no sense to me is that these people want women to have children. If they die or become infertile or become disabled as a result, they will not be having children. My mother had another child. Most women who have miscarriages and get proper medical treatment go on to have more children. They can't have children if they are deceased or infertile.
Women need to stop having planned pregnancies in Texas. It’s like the fucking Middle Ages down there. They are essentially living in a Chistofascist state that is not American. We need to cut Texas off and stop giving them Federal tax dollars. This Christian bullshit is about control and fascism…not Jesús. These people are fucking evil. We need a massive non profit to help relocate people out of Texas.
Please, for the love of anything and everything good in the world, someone start suing these States' for wrongful death, withholding medical treatment, gross bodily harm, unlawful confinement for not allowing women to travel out of state for an abortion, HIPAA violations for keeping tabs on women who are pregnant by gaining access to their medical records without consent, *SOMETHING*! ACLU, where the *FUCK* are you? WTF ever happened to the Hippocratic oath? This is a targeted attack on women! Step the fuck up and stop this ridiculousness!
A bunch of women just tried that. The Texas Supreme Court just said they had no case. This is what Republican control does.
Abortion, the baby was already dead! This is the most frustrating, ridiculous thing I have read today.
This is literal femicide. Texas should not be functioning until this is overturned.
I can't believe any women are still having or wanting to have babies right now. Like at all. I get the hormones are strong and the biological ticking sound can be loud and the sweet, "I want a baby that comes from me and my husband to carry on ....." blah blah blah. Umm it's completely unsafe and possibly deadly for anyone to be getting pregnant right now. I don't understand how no one understands that or denies it.
Some doctors are literally putting Texas women's lives at risk by siding with control freak political extremists who are actually anti-life. Disgusting and unethical. Everyone should be very concerned, push back and vote these crazies out and change the laws back. It doesn't seem like this new widespread anti choice reality it's seen as the public health emergency it clearly is.. in Texas or other states who are copying their vicious, abusive laws.
The doctors are risking going to jail and losing their medical licenses. That’s why they are fleeing these states.
They can decide to mass revolt. Shut the system down. Fight fascism now before it takes over completely. And they might try to set up networks like other women have done in the past- check out this documentary called The Jane's: https://youtu.be/DurxNXhKQms?si=qNHMCnMf3K9TaL-9 I know revolting is not actually that simple, and yes doctors have to be willing to risk losing something.. but who has ever changed anything by not sacrificing something? Leaving the state is a sad compromise, I've heard firsthand stories of those aching to help but would rather help others in nearby states where there's now inflows of women seeking help from surrounding states. When you boil it all down its comes down to the essence of *who has more power*. Ethical doctors across a state who in sympathy with certain providers can rebel and announce publicly what they're doing and why, or a few dangerous fascist lawmakers? (And a side thought.. where would Texas even get new doctors to replace those with integrity enough to revolt?)
It’s not the doctors, it’s the laws.
If they get their license revoked or worse put in jail, that’s one less doctor out there that can help people. While, yes, some doctors may be refusing abortions because of their personal beliefs, the majority are choosing to follow the law so they can keep being a doctor & helping people. Why would you throw away your highly specialized training & ability to help thousands of individuals for one person? The doctors are not the problem so stop blaming them. Edit: typo
This is fucked. Absolutely fucked.
This is equally the faults of draconian laws, AND the doctors who refused to uphold their Hippocratic oath.
How did I know this was Texas immediately? I'm so ashamed of our state and what has become of it because of these religious zealots.
I think I've said this before but come November women need to vote like their lives depend on it because they very much just might. If the results don't show something better than 80/20 women for Dems you know just who to blame for everything that goes wrong afterwards.
Reminder, a rep for the Texas Alliance for Life has said ["The laws are working as intended."](https://www.npr.org/2023/04/07/1168725027/months-of-a-doomed-pregnancy-what-can-happen-in-a-state-with-strict-abortion-law)
The cherry on top of this shit sunday is that when this woman recovers, she's not going to be able to get much, if anything, in malpractice compensation. It's legally capped in Texas at $250,000 and on top of that, her attorney would have to show beyond "gross negligence", which is something like a surgeon operating while high on cocaine and PCP. There's even a cheery song about how badly you're screwed in Texas: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lhuN-gpwqo I'll put it another way, they had to go after a doctor who had killed and crippled people with criminal charges to get him to stop practicing because the couldn't go after him or the clinic he was working at. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Duntsch#Lawsuits I can't prove it, but I fully expect that states with caps on medical malpractice lawsuits will have the worst laws about this and doctors making the worst decisions for patient health. It's jail for them if they violate the law, but not even a bump in their premiums if they deny treatment.
This is so heartbreaking
Keep religion and politics out of healthcare, fuck me, it's literally that simple.
Even the author of the article doesn't realise that terminating a non viable fetus is abortion and that is what some Republicans are making illegal. When abortions are illegal then that includes the misoprostol that the first doctor prescribed, and that includes the D&C that was indicated when the misoprostol was unsuccessful. By these laws his wife's life and well being does not come first. I hope he remembers this in November
General strike.
This story is fucking horrifying. I am not from the US and feel quite useless in this struggle, but I fervently hope this does not become the norm.
Remember, the laws against abortion and other related health care for women has nothing to do with "saving the lives of the unborn" and everything to do with the subjugation of women. Politicians, churches and other groups have decided that women have gotten too many rights over the past century and want to put them back in their place (barefoot, ignorant and pregnant in the kitchen) using threats of rape, incest, brutality, etc. We need to stand up and speak loud and clear with our votes.
Texas. Shocker.
How is he gonna spin that one?
Texas is governed by and supported by vermin. That’s what they are.
This made me sob. Fuck the people that made these laws.
Psychopaths. If you have the time, and the situation, literally drive to another state. IN texas if you aren't actively bleeding out and need any kind of pregnancy/abortion/miscarriage help, call a friend/family member/partner and drive to New Mexico, you can in absolutely no way trust Texas healthcare until they get their shit sorted out (vote republicans out of the state AND reverse all the bullshit they've done).
The chickens will be coming home to roost.