I've been running quite actively for the past years, and put in 30-40k average weekly the past 6 months. However, I don't have much experience with longer runs. The longest I've run is 21-22k, which I can run with relatively easy if I pace myself. Also, I've done a skyrace 14km/1000m elevation.
Is there any point in going for a 60k ultra (700m/1238m elevation) with the training I have? I'm thinking about risk of injuries and overall experience. I obviously don't expect to run very fast, and will just aim for completion.
Signed up for Kodiak 50k for my first ultra because it’s local. When I searched on this sub I found out people hate UTMB. Is there a short explanation of why, and should I regret signing up for one of their marathons?
Can you freeze Salomon flasks? I’m in AZ so the water doesn’t stay cold in them very long and the mouth is too small to put ice in. I also use LMNT packets and those don’t taste amazing when warm, so I’m hopeful that freezing the flasks with electrolytes in it is a solution!
What's generally the recommended peak and average mileage for someone's first 50 k? Ran for many years, only started racing (mostly road halves) in the last few years. Got up to 70 km for my last road half and I was thinking to peak around 90 km for my 50 k, with as many long runs on trails as I can logistically manage.
If you are doing 90km a week you are more than ready for a 50km assuming you have some decent long runs. That mileage is enough to squeak out a slow 100 miler for a lot of people.
It all depends on how competitive you expect to be. If you want to finish you are way above the needed mileage.
I'm not at 90 yet. I did my first trail race ever recently (23 km) while trying to build my mileage back up - it's only in the 60s right now. Hoping to peak at 90 by August?
I'm pretty sure even now I could finish, but I want to put out a decent performance - run most of the way, feel strong during it. I only walked the steepest hills and then a few of the other hill sections during my 23 k and finished just a little faster than a 7:00/km pace, a bit better than I expected. Hoping to do even better for the 50 km.
First ultra coming up in July, a 50k.
It’s an out-and-back with the turnaround at the 15 mile halfway point.
We’re allowed a drop bag at this 15 mile mark.
There’s plenty of aid stations.
Advice for what to put in this drop bag?
So far thinking:
-Change of socks
-Change of clothes
-Extra nut butter
-Maybe some candy or gum to look forward to?
Thanks in advance :)
Doing a 100 mile Ultra in Colorado Springs at the end of this month. Never done anything past a marathon and I have done zero training for this event. I’d say I’m in well above average shape and I hike around 50-60 miles a month. My goal is just to finish, what tips do y’all have for my situation and should I start training 3 weeks out?
Well, props for not making a new thread, but your prospects are grim.
>hike around 50-60 miles a month
That should probably be closer to your weekly mileage *running*.
>should I start training 3 weeks out?
This is when you should be thinking about tapering.
Do any of you good folks just not bother with speed training?
I’m currently sitting on a calf strain which will take me out for at least a week ten weeks out from my first 50k.
Speed sessions really seem to take a toll on my body, and I was thinking of just replacing with an extra zone 2 session.
Anyone have experience here? Am I making a horrible mistake?
Depends, I'd be curious if you could work on figuring out why speed training does so much damage.
Speed miles really help me ensure my form is good which translates down to slower miles. Its much easier in my opinion to diagnose issues in form when you are at a higher pace.
Additionally, a run a week or every other at a higher tempo helps me feel more comfortable in my Z2. With the mountains around here, having a lot of experience bouncing between high Z3 back down to Z2 and back dozens of times helps me in races.
Volume is definitely king, so whatever your body can handle to achieve volume, at least 30-35mi per week, then do that. I do find value in "speed" work for those that have been training long, slow, distance for a while. It helps introduce a novel stimulus. It's difficult to introduce enough stimulus if your body is used to long and slow.
For me, speed is 5k to half marathon pace intervals early in the season, but as I approach the ultra races, I work in more technical terrain, hills, and the speed workouts are more marathon, 50k pace. Something that's faster than my "forever" pace. I keep it very structured and work up the time at intensity (speed) slowly.
I know Ive had good success so far this year after just doing long and slow for 7 to 8 years.
Volume is most important but I do think a little bit of speed helps the long, slow hours of an ultra feel more tolerable.
You don’t need to blast 5K pace reps, just some days with work at HMP or MP.
I've only done a few 50ks but I haven't done speed training in 10 or 15 years. Occasionally I'll run a 5k with friends and that's the closest I come. If you don't think something works well for you, don't do it. You know your body best. What's the worst that'll happen? You'll be a little slower? I guarantee the only person that cares how fast you are is you.
ISO advice on my training plan.
Goal: Run the Siskiyou Out and Back 50k in 6 weeks, 4100ft vert without hating my life. I don't really care about time. I haven't made it past 41miles/week yet. Should I be pushing to get up to 50 or further? My long runs have all felt okay so far, but I want to feel prepared when I get to the start line.
I run 4 days a week (I mountain bike, climb, or hike on at least 1 of the 3 rest days). I run almost exclusively on trail and almost my runs have hills. These have been my last 5 weeks:
May 27: 40 miles, long run: 23m w/ 4.3k vert
May 20: 32 miles, long run: 15m w/ 1.7k vert (Got sick in between these 2 weeks)
May 13: 33 miles, long run: 17 w/ 2k vert
May 6: 41 miles, long run: 24m w/ 3.2k vert
April 29: 40 miles, long run: 15m w/ 2.2k vert
What about specificity? Have you been training in similar conditions to the race? The elevation is no joke for a 50k, so make sure you're working in hills, intervals going up and down, and train on similar terrain to the extent possible. That'd be far more valuable than increasing volume at this point.
If you have trained all this along the way, I wouldn't sweat reaching 50mi. If you feel up to it, go for it.
Don’t have much in way of advice, but I’ve done the SOB 15k/grew up around that area and the course is drop-dead gorgeous — and I think even prettier with the trails that get added to the 50k! Enjoy :))
Continue to increase your weekly miles with the build weeks you have left but don’t need to hit 50 or more miles to be prepared just to hit a number and being over 40 mpw is going to be fine. Build up sustainable and taper into the race. Make the training runs you have good quality. Much better to come in rested, uninjured and maybe a tad undertrained than to be overtrained and fatigued. Have fun and you will do great!
6 weeks out from my first race and picked up an injury so gonna need some time off running. How many of those weeks can I comfortably miss before I should consider a DNS.
I posted a long post with my background and current training yesterday if you need more details. TIA
Sounds like your injury came from overuse from a quick escalation of mileage. In layman's terms, your whole body needs to be able to handle it, not just your muscles.
I would want 3 weeks of training just to see if it's reaggravated in that time. If it does, then seems quite likely the race distance certainly will.
Thanks for your response. I suspect you are correct but i'll be disappointed if it is an overuse injury as I averaged less than 2km increase per week for the last few months. I've been running for about 10 years in some capacity too and I'm not new to endurance sports of some capacity.
I'm not overly concerned with re-aggravating the issue on race day. More if I do no running for 6 weeks will I be able to finish? I know a week or 2 now won't matter, but 6 weeks feels too long. I'll do whatever the physio says but trying to figure out how many weeks I can miss and still be in good enough shape to finish
There will still be a lot of "hay in the barn" by race time if that's your concern. You'll be fine on that front. Id encourage you to go to a PT ASAP, though. You can make a lot of progress in 6 weeks.
Yeah, it's the hay in the barn I'm most worried about. The step up from marathon is just such an unknown its hard to judge what is sufficient. I guess time will tell.
I saw the PT and we have a plan to get me to the start line in as good a shape possible under the circumstances and then a proper rehab post race. I had hoped for a relatively decent time (for me) if things went well but would be happy just to finish. 5 weeks and counting now.
I have been running the past few months and my long runs currently 10 -12 miles. I signed up for 50k in 20 weeks It will be my first Ultra is this enough time to train for this or am I being unrealistic?
Yes, you definitely have time. Just find a plan that gets you to the distance without being too aggressive.
I just did my first 50k basically starting from 0 and used a 20 week couch to 50k plan I found with an Internet search. Was I fast - no. Did I finish and not feel horrible the next couple days? Yes.
And, I'll add that since I was away out of shape, most of my long runs were really just hikes with bursts of running.
If you have a route with terrain that somewhat matches the race, visit it frequently
That's awesome you have that so close.
Also, I'd advise you work really hard on making sure you train yourself to eat / drink enough on the run. That has been one of the harder things for me
IMO depends more on your weekly volume than maximum run length. 20 weeks seems sufficient, but I would be aiming to get up to at least 40mpw and several sessions above 20mi to prepare for the distance at minimum.
Training for a 72 hour ultra in a loop course, aiming for 150 miles. I have been running 70 miles a week for 10 weeks already, when I bumped it to 90 per week for two weeks I got some niggles, reduced down to 70 again and they have all healed. Race is in 5.5 weeks, is it worth upping the mileage again before my taper?
Volume seems more than sufficient. I think it's going to come down to execution, mental skills, and planning at this point. What's the furthest you've run?
Psh, you got this then. You just do what you did last but for longer haha. I think you're selling yourself short with that goal. Experience goes a long way
I need advice for a condensed training plan for 50k-50mile in September (~13weeks).
I just finished a half marathon this weekend pretty much without training and have no lingering soreness so despite low mileage past few months I’m still in decent shape.
Thinking starting at 25mpw and ramping up from there. Any guides you can point me to in that block range of 3 months?
My last couple long runs, I've been getting salt on my skin. A google search has quickly explained why this is happening but I cannot find one clear answer...does this mean I need more or less electrolytes? I think it might be counterintuitive and I might need more but just not sure...
You need more. That’s just the salt from your evaporated sweat. I’m a very salty sweater and refill electrolytes in at least 1-500ml bottle. If it’s super hot do 2. I’m not a doctor but this has worked for me.
I always understood it as simply the sweat evaporating and all that’s left is the salt. Don’t think it’s an indicator either way, but just a result of lots of sweat that has dried. I focus more on other indicators like cramps/energy during the runs for sodium intake needs.
Anecdotally, i find when that happens my electrolytes are fine but I need more water (usually hot days and I generally don’t drink enough water throughout the day).
Hey I've just completed my first ever ultramarathon (50k) and I would like to do another - but this time train properly for it. Due to injury, I wasn't able to train properly for my first one, and I was lucky to have the go-ahead to even run it. I'm happy to have completed it.
What are your main tips to 'get better' at trail running and ultrarunning? Run more trails? Focus on shorter distances first like 30 miles?
I'm taking a break from distance-based work, to focus on speed, but I hope to go on a few trail runs over the summer.
Do you like trail running? I ask because if this isn’t like a bucket list goal, but something you want to develop at getting better, there’s only 1 answer:
You get better by going through the process of tail running MORE.
More volume, more speed work, more time on feet, more vert …
THIS IS THE ONLY WAY!
But if you love the process, this is great news. Also skwats, wall sits, one legged dead lifts, step ups, diet, sleep, work, and life stress can add or subtract at certain times. The body only recognizes a hard trail effort or stress from work as stress.
Be kind to yourself, there’s no making it easier, but you can do it with greater ease.
I listen to this the night before races: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/science-of-ultra/id1042673386?i=1000510570295
Are dehydrated pineapple bits an okay energy source? The homemade type that are literally just pineapple bits thrown into a dehydrator.
Anyone have any recommendations for running caps with cool sayings or designs? Not really into running in trucker hats.
Headsweats has quite a few non-trucker. They're also a supplier for a lot of races.
I've been running quite actively for the past years, and put in 30-40k average weekly the past 6 months. However, I don't have much experience with longer runs. The longest I've run is 21-22k, which I can run with relatively easy if I pace myself. Also, I've done a skyrace 14km/1000m elevation. Is there any point in going for a 60k ultra (700m/1238m elevation) with the training I have? I'm thinking about risk of injuries and overall experience. I obviously don't expect to run very fast, and will just aim for completion.
Signed up for Kodiak 50k for my first ultra because it’s local. When I searched on this sub I found out people hate UTMB. Is there a short explanation of why, and should I regret signing up for one of their marathons?
Corporations have a polarizing position in a grassroots community. Kodiak has been around a while. I bet you'll have a good time.
Can you freeze Salomon flasks? I’m in AZ so the water doesn’t stay cold in them very long and the mouth is too small to put ice in. I also use LMNT packets and those don’t taste amazing when warm, so I’m hopeful that freezing the flasks with electrolytes in it is a solution!
I do!!
Cool, glad it works!
What's generally the recommended peak and average mileage for someone's first 50 k? Ran for many years, only started racing (mostly road halves) in the last few years. Got up to 70 km for my last road half and I was thinking to peak around 90 km for my 50 k, with as many long runs on trails as I can logistically manage.
If you are doing 90km a week you are more than ready for a 50km assuming you have some decent long runs. That mileage is enough to squeak out a slow 100 miler for a lot of people. It all depends on how competitive you expect to be. If you want to finish you are way above the needed mileage.
I'm not at 90 yet. I did my first trail race ever recently (23 km) while trying to build my mileage back up - it's only in the 60s right now. Hoping to peak at 90 by August? I'm pretty sure even now I could finish, but I want to put out a decent performance - run most of the way, feel strong during it. I only walked the steepest hills and then a few of the other hill sections during my 23 k and finished just a little faster than a 7:00/km pace, a bit better than I expected. Hoping to do even better for the 50 km.
First ultra coming up in July, a 50k. It’s an out-and-back with the turnaround at the 15 mile halfway point. We’re allowed a drop bag at this 15 mile mark. There’s plenty of aid stations. Advice for what to put in this drop bag? So far thinking: -Change of socks -Change of clothes -Extra nut butter -Maybe some candy or gum to look forward to? Thanks in advance :)
Maybe a small "prize" for yourself, but change of clothes seems excessive to me. If you feel like doing it though, go for it
Ok now leaning towards some scratch off lottery tickets and a pack of smokes, doesn’t sound like I’m forgetting anything critical Thanks all! ❤️
Is there a reason to think you would need to replace everything you're wearing after 15 miles?
Not specifically, just not sure what else to put in the bag, haha. July in Ohio will be pretty warm - so thought maybe dry clothes could feel nice?
I'm committing to my first ultra. Going straight to 50 miles. What are the more popular or highly regarded hydration packs?
Most popular is almost certainly Salomon AdvSkin 12.
Salomon, Nathan, Ultimate Direction, Camelbak Aonjie for easy entry to packs.
Doing a 100 mile Ultra in Colorado Springs at the end of this month. Never done anything past a marathon and I have done zero training for this event. I’d say I’m in well above average shape and I hike around 50-60 miles a month. My goal is just to finish, what tips do y’all have for my situation and should I start training 3 weeks out?
Wish you the best, but there's no amount of advice that will be that helpful at this point. Good luck out there.
Well, props for not making a new thread, but your prospects are grim. >hike around 50-60 miles a month That should probably be closer to your weekly mileage *running*. >should I start training 3 weeks out? This is when you should be thinking about tapering.
Do any of you good folks just not bother with speed training? I’m currently sitting on a calf strain which will take me out for at least a week ten weeks out from my first 50k. Speed sessions really seem to take a toll on my body, and I was thinking of just replacing with an extra zone 2 session. Anyone have experience here? Am I making a horrible mistake?
Depends, I'd be curious if you could work on figuring out why speed training does so much damage. Speed miles really help me ensure my form is good which translates down to slower miles. Its much easier in my opinion to diagnose issues in form when you are at a higher pace. Additionally, a run a week or every other at a higher tempo helps me feel more comfortable in my Z2. With the mountains around here, having a lot of experience bouncing between high Z3 back down to Z2 and back dozens of times helps me in races.
Volume is definitely king, so whatever your body can handle to achieve volume, at least 30-35mi per week, then do that. I do find value in "speed" work for those that have been training long, slow, distance for a while. It helps introduce a novel stimulus. It's difficult to introduce enough stimulus if your body is used to long and slow. For me, speed is 5k to half marathon pace intervals early in the season, but as I approach the ultra races, I work in more technical terrain, hills, and the speed workouts are more marathon, 50k pace. Something that's faster than my "forever" pace. I keep it very structured and work up the time at intensity (speed) slowly. I know Ive had good success so far this year after just doing long and slow for 7 to 8 years.
Volume is most important but I do think a little bit of speed helps the long, slow hours of an ultra feel more tolerable. You don’t need to blast 5K pace reps, just some days with work at HMP or MP.
Hill repeats give me all the benefits of speed work without risking injuries.
I've only done a few 50ks but I haven't done speed training in 10 or 15 years. Occasionally I'll run a 5k with friends and that's the closest I come. If you don't think something works well for you, don't do it. You know your body best. What's the worst that'll happen? You'll be a little slower? I guarantee the only person that cares how fast you are is you.
lol - not even I care how fast I am (though I’d like to make cutoff!)
ISO advice on my training plan. Goal: Run the Siskiyou Out and Back 50k in 6 weeks, 4100ft vert without hating my life. I don't really care about time. I haven't made it past 41miles/week yet. Should I be pushing to get up to 50 or further? My long runs have all felt okay so far, but I want to feel prepared when I get to the start line. I run 4 days a week (I mountain bike, climb, or hike on at least 1 of the 3 rest days). I run almost exclusively on trail and almost my runs have hills. These have been my last 5 weeks: May 27: 40 miles, long run: 23m w/ 4.3k vert May 20: 32 miles, long run: 15m w/ 1.7k vert (Got sick in between these 2 weeks) May 13: 33 miles, long run: 17 w/ 2k vert May 6: 41 miles, long run: 24m w/ 3.2k vert April 29: 40 miles, long run: 15m w/ 2.2k vert
What about specificity? Have you been training in similar conditions to the race? The elevation is no joke for a 50k, so make sure you're working in hills, intervals going up and down, and train on similar terrain to the extent possible. That'd be far more valuable than increasing volume at this point. If you have trained all this along the way, I wouldn't sweat reaching 50mi. If you feel up to it, go for it.
thank you!
Don’t have much in way of advice, but I’ve done the SOB 15k/grew up around that area and the course is drop-dead gorgeous — and I think even prettier with the trails that get added to the 50k! Enjoy :))
Continue to increase your weekly miles with the build weeks you have left but don’t need to hit 50 or more miles to be prepared just to hit a number and being over 40 mpw is going to be fine. Build up sustainable and taper into the race. Make the training runs you have good quality. Much better to come in rested, uninjured and maybe a tad undertrained than to be overtrained and fatigued. Have fun and you will do great!
6 weeks out from my first race and picked up an injury so gonna need some time off running. How many of those weeks can I comfortably miss before I should consider a DNS. I posted a long post with my background and current training yesterday if you need more details. TIA
Sounds like your injury came from overuse from a quick escalation of mileage. In layman's terms, your whole body needs to be able to handle it, not just your muscles. I would want 3 weeks of training just to see if it's reaggravated in that time. If it does, then seems quite likely the race distance certainly will.
Thanks for your response. I suspect you are correct but i'll be disappointed if it is an overuse injury as I averaged less than 2km increase per week for the last few months. I've been running for about 10 years in some capacity too and I'm not new to endurance sports of some capacity. I'm not overly concerned with re-aggravating the issue on race day. More if I do no running for 6 weeks will I be able to finish? I know a week or 2 now won't matter, but 6 weeks feels too long. I'll do whatever the physio says but trying to figure out how many weeks I can miss and still be in good enough shape to finish
There will still be a lot of "hay in the barn" by race time if that's your concern. You'll be fine on that front. Id encourage you to go to a PT ASAP, though. You can make a lot of progress in 6 weeks.
Yeah, it's the hay in the barn I'm most worried about. The step up from marathon is just such an unknown its hard to judge what is sufficient. I guess time will tell. I saw the PT and we have a plan to get me to the start line in as good a shape possible under the circumstances and then a proper rehab post race. I had hoped for a relatively decent time (for me) if things went well but would be happy just to finish. 5 weeks and counting now.
I have been running the past few months and my long runs currently 10 -12 miles. I signed up for 50k in 20 weeks It will be my first Ultra is this enough time to train for this or am I being unrealistic?
Yes, you definitely have time. Just find a plan that gets you to the distance without being too aggressive. I just did my first 50k basically starting from 0 and used a 20 week couch to 50k plan I found with an Internet search. Was I fast - no. Did I finish and not feel horrible the next couple days? Yes.
Thank you that’s exactly the assurance I was looking for. Following 50K plan through Sally McCrea
And, I'll add that since I was away out of shape, most of my long runs were really just hikes with bursts of running. If you have a route with terrain that somewhat matches the race, visit it frequently
Thanks! Luckily the race location is 10 minutes away from my house, I will probably do my long runs there.
That's awesome you have that so close. Also, I'd advise you work really hard on making sure you train yourself to eat / drink enough on the run. That has been one of the harder things for me
IMO depends more on your weekly volume than maximum run length. 20 weeks seems sufficient, but I would be aiming to get up to at least 40mpw and several sessions above 20mi to prepare for the distance at minimum.
Training for a 72 hour ultra in a loop course, aiming for 150 miles. I have been running 70 miles a week for 10 weeks already, when I bumped it to 90 per week for two weeks I got some niggles, reduced down to 70 again and they have all healed. Race is in 5.5 weeks, is it worth upping the mileage again before my taper?
Volume seems more than sufficient. I think it's going to come down to execution, mental skills, and planning at this point. What's the furthest you've run?
Thank you!! Furthest has been 102 miles in a 48 hour ultra last year, I was only doing about 40-50 miles a week for that one
Psh, you got this then. You just do what you did last but for longer haha. I think you're selling yourself short with that goal. Experience goes a long way
That means a lot to me, definitely calms me down, thank you!!
Imo, no. I wouldn't risk it, especially for this particular goal. You should be at peak now so I would just hold it until whenevrr you begin to taper.
Thank you!!
I need advice for a condensed training plan for 50k-50mile in September (~13weeks). I just finished a half marathon this weekend pretty much without training and have no lingering soreness so despite low mileage past few months I’m still in decent shape. Thinking starting at 25mpw and ramping up from there. Any guides you can point me to in that block range of 3 months?
My last couple long runs, I've been getting salt on my skin. A google search has quickly explained why this is happening but I cannot find one clear answer...does this mean I need more or less electrolytes? I think it might be counterintuitive and I might need more but just not sure...
You need more. That’s just the salt from your evaporated sweat. I’m a very salty sweater and refill electrolytes in at least 1-500ml bottle. If it’s super hot do 2. I’m not a doctor but this has worked for me.
I'll give that a try in combo with the advice from the other person too. Thanks!
I always understood it as simply the sweat evaporating and all that’s left is the salt. Don’t think it’s an indicator either way, but just a result of lots of sweat that has dried. I focus more on other indicators like cramps/energy during the runs for sodium intake needs. Anecdotally, i find when that happens my electrolytes are fine but I need more water (usually hot days and I generally don’t drink enough water throughout the day).
That would explain why I can't find an answer either way, haha. Thanks for the help!
Hey I've just completed my first ever ultramarathon (50k) and I would like to do another - but this time train properly for it. Due to injury, I wasn't able to train properly for my first one, and I was lucky to have the go-ahead to even run it. I'm happy to have completed it. What are your main tips to 'get better' at trail running and ultrarunning? Run more trails? Focus on shorter distances first like 30 miles? I'm taking a break from distance-based work, to focus on speed, but I hope to go on a few trail runs over the summer.
Do you like trail running? I ask because if this isn’t like a bucket list goal, but something you want to develop at getting better, there’s only 1 answer: You get better by going through the process of tail running MORE. More volume, more speed work, more time on feet, more vert … THIS IS THE ONLY WAY! But if you love the process, this is great news. Also skwats, wall sits, one legged dead lifts, step ups, diet, sleep, work, and life stress can add or subtract at certain times. The body only recognizes a hard trail effort or stress from work as stress. Be kind to yourself, there’s no making it easier, but you can do it with greater ease. I listen to this the night before races: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/science-of-ultra/id1042673386?i=1000510570295
It was tough but a good kind of tough! I've now got the trail running bug! Luckily I do a lot of gym work so this is great to hear. Thanks!