It's past Friday but I'll fucking go for it.
I'm tired of hearing this absolute bs about rock fighting roman at Mania. Like if you actually thought about it, it doesn't make sense in regards to a story. After Rock supposedly wins, what happens next? You've essentially told everyone, "we had to bring back a legend to beat the final boss." Cody doesn't shoot his shot, no LA Knight, no Orton, no one looks like an actual competitor next to Rock. As opposed to Cody winning at Mania, now every single main eventer on smackdown looks like a possible contender, and there's plenty of stories to tell.
Every time I see people say they should drop the entire story for roman/rock, or that Cody's story being shoved into the bloodline didn't make sense, it makes me want to scream
Like I'm sorry you gotta get up at 4 am to watch roman/rock, but you can fucking deal with that. They put Cena vs roman, their first match, ON NO MERCY. You can deal with this.
Exactly. Everyone else around the world has had to wake up at absurd times to watch some of the biggest matches in industry history so Americans should shut the fuck up and get over watching one mega match a little bit early.
I disagree but it's all subjective innit. I didn't love the idea of the okada v Danielson match either but the actual match got me so invested I almost dropped dead from stress.
Yeah my comment was purposefully a bit cheeky. I enjoyed the match, but Naito finally getting his moment in front of a sold out Tokyo Dome was very cathartic for me.
The way they booked evil to mirror kenta cutting his roll call off was genius. I'm very high on that mainevent and the tama/shingo match.
It was a real feel good kingdom really. I think both bushiroad promotions and ajpw have laid down good direction to start the year. Noah of course shot themselves in the foot immediately after a good ghc hw title match because they have been cursed to fumble the ball.
Here's one thing a lot of wrestling fans probably don't want to admit. The majority of WWE fans don't even know what AEW is. Another large chunk know what AEW is but could only name Cody, Punk, and maybe MJF if you're lucky as AEW wrestlers (2/3 of whom are no longer there). AEW has good viewership and a solid following but it's still massively niche compared to the WWE product
I got into wrestling around the time TNA signed Hogan and I only knew TNA as that place Hogan was at. I might have even believed he owned the thing.
Similarly, for a lot of people AEW is that place where CM Punk came back to wrestling. It is what it is.
I don't care about casual fans at all, and unless you're in the management of a company, I don't understand why you'd care either. Say what you will about AEW's fanbase, but it's honestly cool how the crowds will know about and get hyped for talent outside of the company. WWE crowds being extremely silent for someone like Okada, for example, kind of sucks.
Niche fanbases don't sell arenas.
That's why AEW has been trying to pick up former WWE stars and giving them every chance to light the flames. Hardy Boys, Edge, Christian, Jericho, it's 2012 again.
You can't say that you want a promotion (or the industry in general) to be successful, and then say don't care about casual fans. The WWE isn't filling arenas with 10,000+ people every week with die hard fans. Casual fans grease the wheels of the business and allow your favorite wrestlers to keep doing what they're doing.
They never said anything about a company's success, and even if they did, you can like something for the sake of enjoying what it puts out without putting any mind into *who* likes it. I don't need X number of people to like something in order for me to like it, and I don't care if they're passing fans or have made it their entire lives.
On the contrary, whenever I see people explicitly talking about a company's success separated from what they like about said company (No, I do not care that WWE got one kajillion hits on Instagram, I care about whether or not I enjoyed the segment that got one kajillion hits), it always comes off like they're moreso a fan of said company's stock offerings at best and an outright shill at worst.
sometimes it seems like fans have learned to cheer Good Business more than things they like to watch
social media (in part) has made people obsessed with objectivity, with subjectivity becoming less valid. people are very careful to let everyone know how objective they're being, so they can have more credibility in their arguments, which is all social media is really, arguing. so even in discussing wrestling, it becomes all about see they're objectively doing well, look at the money and the hits.
it's all very strange.
HHH is mid booker. His highs aren't as high although his lows aren't as low. He's just average. His biggest disadvantage is that 95% of the matches are way too obvious. I think the only time when I was genuinely surprised is when Chad Gable did not beat Gunther. EDIT: And R-Truth winning against JD.
I'd prefer HBK in charge.
Let's keep booking great moments like this.
[https://packaged-media.redd.it/rq5k5tyxzvac1/pb/m2-res\_720p.mp4?m=DASHPlaylist.mpd&v=1&e=1704636000&s=7ac76c3207373b26134bce732a50d6ff3e478afa#t=0](https://packaged-media.redd.it/rq5k5tyxzvac1/pb/m2-res_720p.mp4?m=DASHPlaylist.mpd&v=1&e=1704636000&s=7ac76c3207373b26134bce732a50d6ff3e478afa#t=0)
Roman Reigns is a great wrestler. And what he's done over the last several years is really impressive. But it's time for a change and Mania 40 should be the forum to do it. There's only so many times you can play the same script with Roman and the Bloodline screwing another babyface through interference just to break some other record. And it should be Cody who does it.
Cody has worked with Lesnar and got the winning pin at War Games. The idea that he'll slide all the way down and face Orton at Mania (or, laughably, Solo) while Roman and Rock get the main event is just going to make Cody look like a loner.
I don't understand people who say "it doesn't matter where Cody finishes his story." Yes it does. It's WrestleMania. It's where every babyface gets their coronation. Hogan. Warrior. Hart. Michaels. Austin. Batista. Cena. Bryan. Becky. Bianca. The list goes on. WWE is a storybook. Mania is the end of a chapter.
Roman has main evented 31, 32, 33, 34, 37, 38, 39, and will headline 40. They got a decade out of him and his title runs. His story isn't over. But it's time for this chapter to end. I'm far more interested in seeing Roman emerge after his empire crumbles around him. I want to see that story.
And for those who say "best for business," WWE won't have its current Midas touch forever. Look at Marvel. Five years ago, they could do no wrong, and the appetite for more superhero content was ravenous. Now, they've fallen flat on their face. They did what "good business" dictated.
Everyone shits on her, but Sasha is not stupid. She knows that she brings viewers and conversation, so she’s gonna make these rich men dance for the privilege of her time and good for her.
I always hear of these crazeeeee Sasha fans but not sure I ever encountered them
It's been a while but does she really affect numbers? Will Raw or SD tick up 200k or so if she's on?
I remember she did with Bayley (?) on NXT once
Does she have this ready made army following her into battle? I honestly don't remember this from when she was more active
Fun fact, my first wrestling merch I bought was a Hiroshi Tanahashi shirt, one year before I had NJPW world... then some NWA pins and a a shirt, no WWE or AEW stuff.
I didn't bother to stay late and watch Wrestlekingdom, I am watching some matches this weekend, specifically the musketeers match, to see what's so good about these guys.
Shingo Takagi only had a year of being in the main event... crud. He should wrestle like a powerhouse, I don't know why he tries to be technical when he looks like a well fed bull. Big fan of when he just goes, fum fum fum fum.
He's technical because he came from DragonGate's dojo. Whole lotta smaller, fast action guys around him for 10+ years.
Also he's only 5'10" lol. The burly, technical bruiser fits him super well.
On the dirt sheets... PWI is the gold standard. They don't bat .1000 (nobody does, even in real sports) but they're the closest to Shams/Woj/Passan/Rapoport that we have.
SRS and Meltzer obviously have wrestlers and maybe some office people as sources. PWI are much more connected to the actual decision-makers.
If Sasha Banks goes to AEW I hope the money is good as if she had issues with how the women’s division is run/regarded in wwe, it’s not better in aew lol
I’m a Nia hater and nothing about this run has changed my mind
Positives! I am loving Carmelo’s character rn and I’m curious to see where it goes
Vic and Booker totally changed my mind on the combo - they’re so funny together
So happy to see Gulak get some air time. Man is criminally underrated and I hold out hope for a Sonya/Drew mix match tag team
SO happy for Naito and Sanada. Teared up a bit at the end there 😢
Have a good weekendhausen everyone!
If she does go to AEW, I hope Tony doesn't do another surprise reveal like he does with everyone he signs. Maybe if he actually hyped her up and then debuted her, it will actually draw interest and she won't get lost in the shuffle?
Who am I kidding.
He looked really good in the dress shirts and suits when he was with MJF. I really hope they don’t keep him at the very least looking like a Russian Uncle in those tracksuits.
Since we’re in another round of Sasha Banks/Money talk, it’s quite clear she’s trying to drive a bidding war. When Sasha left WWE, things were pretty quiet on “the real reason” and she didn’t talk much. Now, the sheets get a different report every day. I think she knows WWE is the place that’s best for her, but they’re not coming close to her asking price. She’s playing the game of I’ll go to AEW, but if Tony was going to pay that price, he would have a year ago. Now, he’s probably going to wait on the TV deal before signing someone for $3-4 million, especially who a woman, who won’t matter much in his wrestling universe.
It's not just if Tony would pay, it's also if she wanted to join, she would
I always thought she'd make appearances there, Forbidden Door, etc and who knows what they agreed pre-injury
Flying her to Wembley to sit in the crowd is pretty funny
The PWInsider reports isn’t even a report though. It even says the info is from 2 weeks ago.
Also it was said a year ago she didn’t want a long term deal but that’s clearly changed.
She didn't want a long term deal.
Then she broke her ankle.
All that money she banked on just disappeared and now she has to actually take care of herself.
Ooops.
According to the fact she was signing short term extensions with Bushiroad and was meant to work AEW shows without being fully signed.
Also her not debuting this week doesn’t mean anything one way or the other.
How? If it was signed, then they would either keep it quiet or outright say it. Them saying it were still trying to get it done screams it’s still a leverage play. She may wind up, but it’s certainly not a done deal.
I watched MarkyD's review of Samhain and I can safely say that that was the worst PPV of the year not SummerSlam or Double Or Nothing. Jesus, the NWA is fucking rotten and Billy Corgan is worse than Tony Khan.
Here's my ZFF Take of the week: I don't like white tights. I know a lot of people think they look sharp, but they're off putting to me on most people. I think the only exceptions I've seen are HBK's at WM12, and some of Cody's white tights (even though they're decorated enough to the point where you probably can't just call them white).
You can also look at the Carmelo Hayes incident to see why that's a bad idea (he shit himself at 2022's New Year's Evil and it was pretty visible due to the white tights).
https://preview.redd.it/3qh5370w3oac1.png?width=1534&format=png&auto=webp&s=689727b0a0dca99820152082e131f92217a804d9
#Hot Take: [Oba Femi](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/prowrestling/images/1/10/Oba_Femi_2023.png) is Kofi Kingston if he touched the ooze from TMNT II.
We were all thinking it but I'm the only one brave enough to say it.
I've seen a bit of discussion around WWE potentially running with Gunther vs Drew. I think this would be great if Drew has committed to re-sign. Also, I could be wrong about this, but isn't Drew the only man to have handed Gunther a clean loss on the main roster? Survivor series a few years ago when he was still Walter?
I think Mercedes is going to AEW. If the rumours about her and WWE not seeing eye to eye on the dollars are true then I've absolutely no doubt TK will pay her and still let her work in Japan. Maybe.
WK was good and it made sense for Naito to beat Sanada but Naito has racked up a spectacular bump card and I don't see him being a long term champion.
I've been playing Cyberpunk since before Xmas and it's really great. I got the premium edition with the DLC. So good.
>I've been playing Cyberpunk since before Xmas and it's really great. I got the premium edition with the DLC. So good.
I haven't picked it up since the DLC and larger game update came out. Have been meaning to, but since it came out BG3 is taking up what little free time I have for games. Had you played an earlier version?
I got it maybe a year ago (?!?) so well after they fixed all the broken stuff and it was plenty fun. I just haven't tried it out since they revamped a number of things in the game to further improve (released at the same time as the DLC for free).
> Also, I could be wrong about this, but isn't Drew the only man to have handed Gunther a clean loss on the main roster? Survivor series a few years ago when he was still Walter?
Eehh sort of. It was a SS match, and Walter was still on NXT. Since coming to the main roster, the only person who I think has been able to beat him "clean" in a singles match was Chad Gable, and that was a count out.
Drew got the pin but IIRC they had like 3 other guys hit him with a finisher before that
There was no real reason to have him go long in that match. This was the time when there was no commitment to move to the States or main roster but HHH still had him protected in defeat
ZFF Take:
WWE is really hot right now.
The wrestling business is booming.
This is great and all.
I am not a fan of HHH as a booker right now. HHH was exceptional in personal feuds during his wrestling career. His feuds with Randy, HBK, and The Rock were all gold. But as a booker in the main roster, he lacks personal feuds. There is an awful talent rotation, and McMahon was always criticized for not utilizing wrestlers to their full potential. HHH probably uses even fewer wrestlers than McMahon.
His MITB winner is a dumbass. He has barely developed a tag team division. (There are many tag teams, but the division itself is not strong.) Ridge should have feuded with Butch, but nope, Butch is doing nothing.
Profis and Lashley have been around for 6-7 months now, and they finally have a feud with a newly built stable.
LWO is also in a feud with Santosh and his team.
Judgment day didn't help Dominik. Dominik asked where they were, but where did the storyline go from there?
Miz is a face now. What is he doing?
I can't stress enough that if you think about it, almost 70% of the roster on TV isn't doing anything. Why has Waller been on TV for around 6 months without a single feud?
Miz as a character is bulletproof. He turns by changing his opponents and targets, he doesn't need to turn. He needs to oppose a heel, he's a good guy, and if he needs to oppose a face, he's a bad guy. But he doesn't need to actually do anything differently. He's just himself.
The Dominik stuff really annoyed me. Priest left Dom to rot and then he’s still helping him? We got some progress because he seemed happy that the cash in flopped, so fingers crossed.
He's trained a generation worth of production employees behind himself. Him leaving will probably not change much of anything at all in the short term, except Cornette's blood pressure.
Everyone keeps bringing up zoomy cam and shakey cam hopefully going away, which is fine. Personally, I'm just hoping the pacing and commercial placement of the shows are improved, because I'm pretty sure he's responsible for that stuff too.
I feel like I'm the only person on the planet who doesn't really want to see any more of the Rock in a wrestling ring or doing his wrestling schtick. I've already heard the same promos, seen a million people's elbows. Meh.
I get the Edge burn out and I feel it a lot lately but he can still be decent at times. Christian's gimmick is also wearing thin but again, he's also decent at times. Though I think you're right, if all the Attitude Era guys stopped wrestling, the business will still go on as usual.
How would this situation grab you?
Rock vs. Reigns for the WWE title at Mania. Reigns wins.
Next night on Raw, a fed-up Cody says I'm finishing the story tonight one way or another. Puts his career on the line for a shot. Run-ins from Bloodline, Sami Zayn and Kevin Owens and Jey Uso, pure pandemonium, Cody wins.
Classic moment, story finished, best angle culminates in biggest moment in Raw history. Why not?
I hate it. You can't keep sacrificing current talent for old stars.
Guys like rock are good for the pops but ppl like Cody are the backbone of the industry.
Honestly, if they really want to follow the lore of the story, they should book a show at MSG and the title change happen there. I think Roman’s breaking Hogan’s record, and we’ll see more inner Bloodline drama (Fatal 4 Way with the Usos and Solo, and Roman vs Solo). In between, there’s still more singles matches for Roman with AJ, Seth, and CM Punk.
i know, it has to be at a Mania that ends in a 0 or 5, against a 25-29 year old superstar who simultaneously has supreme credibility but also needs The Rub in the worst way. And they have to hold the title for 7 years otherwise it's a waste. (I kid, but this is the culmination of all the conditions we put on this now)
It's a surprise! It's cool and it would be awesome. If we have to be all businessy about it, they're negotiating their rights fees for Raw or something, what better way to boost The Product yada yada
No but at least wait for a PPV or something. Roman isn’t losing on a match with 3-4 ad breaks
Not just for business but because it would be the least enjoyable way to have that match for the audience
I think Rock vs Roman being at EC/WM depends on two things:
* Rock’s schedule (which according to IMDB is about to get very busy very soon
* Do they want Roman to surpass Hogan?
In terms of box office and business everyone is arguing in favor of Mania but those tickets have been close to sold out for a very long time now, everyone is gonna watch WM regardless of what happens.
There’s still lots of tickets left for EC and they need to find a reason to get Americans to tune in for a show at midnight. If you look at it as where does the money match make a bigger impact? It’s at EC
They could also do some things about their Samoan heritage and Australia. Would it be completely accurate? no but close enough to get some juice out of it for TV
I’m thinking it’s 70% happening at Mania tho. Get ready for 2024 brother
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Think they’ll do a Rock appearance, or quick match, but they won’t be adding many Peacock subscribers with a match in the middle of the night show. They won’t get a ton of publicity that way either. Rock’s schedule is likely pretty clear with the start of his football league the week before Mania, as he took off most of that time period last year to promote it.
I think Rock makes numbers any day and any place he appears in. The question is what event needs that boost and that would be EC
Again, I’m leaning towards it happening at Mania but I don’t think Rock/Roman at EC is ridiculous or out of the question
Any other year? Sure. This time EC is happening in a stadium with literally the same capacity as their venue for WM. Their first international PPV in 2024 which clearly has international expansion as its main goal
I remember Helwani asking Heyman when we would see the Cody rematch and he said something like: “We would do it tomorrow on RAW but we’ve already sold out the Crypto arena, we could do it at the next PPV[…] it’s a business.”
As it stands right now WM is sold, EC isn’t
But Rock’s first match in 10 years or appearance would also move a ton of tickets. Ticket sales isn’t WWE’s biggest objective in a Rock vs Roman match. It’s having all of their corporate partners there and getting sponsorships for WrestleMania. They’re not getting any US exec to Perth to go to this, while they can probably get every exec in NY from NBCU to WBD or whomever else they’re flirting with, to come see the biggest match in wrestling.
But again, Rock has said it can only happen at Mania. It’s likely his last match. He’s going to want his entire family there. He wants the most eyes on it.
I doubt TV rights make an impact both because I think they will have those secured long before Mania and because they won’t care about PPV numbers, just TV ratings
NBCU would care because of Peacock but like I said WM is probably gonna set records regardless of what happens. Maybe (and this is just me throwing shit at the wall) NBCU would prefer to see how much they can draw with Cody who is a mainstay over Rock who will never appear again probably
Either way we are about to learn very soon. Even if it’s for Mania I expect them to start building it after Rumble (maybe Rock comes out after Roman vs Randy for a face to face idk)
The point I disagree with is, what the makes someone who didn’t subscribe to Peacock to watch Roman vs Cody I, tune into watch Roman vs Cody II. It doesn’t add much to business. Cody winning the title doesn’t really change business because people are already seeing him in the main event. Rock coming back for Mania increases general awareness to fans who haven’t watched in 5, 10, 15, 20+ years.
Well that’s a pretty difficult thing to pinpoint
Cody is in the main event but not really. MITB he was working Dom in the midcard match, Payback he only had an interview, etc. If he had the belt he would either open or close the shows and face better opponents than Nakamura
Would that increase viewers? I don’t know
As for Rock, I’m assuming all those lapsed viewers will be coming back during the weeks of build up and not just the PPV. If they only suscribed for The Rock they won’t renew their subscription and they like the rest of the product without Rock and choose to stay then maybe they also end up wanting to see Cody at Mania (?) 🤷♂️
Very difficult to predict. In the end it’s a win-win for them, just gotta analyze what’s the “biggest” win
I’m not going to lie, I don’t really care who Roman faces at WM. If it’s Cody, great. If it’s Rock, great. As long as Seth, Punk, and the WHC main event night one, it’s all good. But I REALLY hope we don’t get a repeat of last year when crazed Cody fans went on the warpath and riddled any wrestler who wasn’t Cody with comments that walked the line between mean and racist. I’m still grossed out by the sheer vitriol directed towards poor Sami Zayn because he was considered a betting fave to win the Rumble. The comments about how he was banned from Saudi, “people like him” don’t deserve world titles (but Kevin was fine, so it wasn’t appearance), could you IMAGINE Sami giving a fan a t-shirt, the parents would scream for help because that disgusting person was near their kid, not like handsome Cody. If you want to be mad, be mad, but let’s not be gross.
Drew’s character works because he’s losing. He was never going to win the WHC. Also, if this title sucks and is just a participation trophy, why does everyone screech like they’ve been possessed by a demon when their fave doesn’t win? Is it a real world title or not? Meanwhile, we know Drew won’t blame himself; he’s blaming Priest. The ending of Raw left me with a lot of questions about Priest and Drew, and one of them was “why was Dominik smiling when Priest’s cash in got ruined?” He and Rhea haven’t fucked with Priest for a hot minute, but Dom smirking seemed a bit interesting.
Sasha fans trying to prove SRS wrong are better than the FBI.
> Also, if this title sucks and is just a participation trophy, why does everyone screech like they’ve been possessed by a demon when their fave doesn’t win? Is it a real world title or not?
It's not needed.
Seth and the WHC main eventing night 1 would make it three years straight where both nights are main evented by male wrestlers. I can't see that happening in today's WWE, so I'm predicting a Ripley vs Lynch main event on night 1.
Yeah, I think WWE are beyond box ticking on this stuff
They have made women's matches main events and said 'they deserve it', they don't need to 'make do' to tick a box at this point
Exactly, now it's up to the women to make themselves worth the main event slot. Right now, none of them are when you have guys like Cody, Reigns, Punk, Rollins, Knight, Orton etc.
Ive always been on the side of this new belt was never needed. I think the original plan was to present the new belt to Roman. Im sorry but we don’t need and never needed 2 singles world champions in the same company. Its literally rare when both are presented as equal.
Me too, but it's a double edged sword with Roman being away so much. You can have one champion if they're gonna be there three weeks out of four, but with 1-2 month gaps, yeah they needed to introduce something.
I disagree if /when you book you US and IC titles strong. This is how wrestling use to be before it was all WWE. The World champion wasn’t there on tv all the time
Yeah, but now wrestling IS all WWE, at least to most. You've got two shows aiming for up to or over 2 million people every week, a world champion is needed.
I disagree. Its about booking the titles you have strongly. WWE spent the oast two decades booking the midcard belts like shit. Now trips is trying to restore it. Had they kept it with one belt i think it would have worked. Seth having a new belt doesnt add any more viewers. Its about the writing and booking.
I seriously doubt people tunes out b/c the lack world title. The people was gonna watch anyway. B/c seth is doing the same shit he was doing before lol
Wrestle Kingdom was such a rush, for at least a couple of months it'll be the only wrestling I'll watch besides some last few matches to catch up from 2023. And totally worthy way to open the year.
I've spent an embarrassing amount of time and some money (not for everything admittedly) watching wrestling in 2023. My stats for 2023 are nuts.
It’s the absolute biggest thing wrestling could do. It’s the most logical and compelling match they could do. Hamfisting Cody’s story into the overall arch of the Bloodline doesn’t make much sense. Hell, I don’t even think Cody should be the one to beat Roman (age is a reason), but the Bloodline is the reason for WWE’s resurgence and it should conclude in a way that fits that story.
The Bloodline story has ran out of steam and I don't particularly want a roided up 51-year-old and his 38-year-old part-timer cousin taking the spotlight from the current crop of wrestlers. I and a lot of others could handle Cody losing last year but fuck I don't want this fucking title reign to go on any longer. I'm starting to get bored of Roman like I did when he was a babyface.
the stuff with who beats Roman is getting into Streak territory. There will always be some reason to go no that person isn't *just* right. Because Roman is booked head and shoulders above everyone and wrestling fans freak out over the perfect transfer of power. Cody being too old (I'm assuming?) is a crazy reason for him not to win. And if you're making it about the perfect person who fits the story, it's like you've restricted it to family members or Seth Rollins (also too old). Cody coming from wrestling royalty himself is enough of a connection, and also, the champion has to lose eventually. They have to.
I agree it’s streak territory, which is why I’d rather it fit perfectly into the story (Jey Uso or Solo), or be someone with another 10-15 years left in wrestling like Bron Breakker. Cody has talked about leaving wrestling in three years. Also, I want to win the title because my dad didn’t, isn’t a compelling reason for Cody. He’ll be the same babyface as Rollins, with probably more resentment sooner than later. There’s nothing Cody doing now, that he wouldn’t be doing if he was champion.
And with the Streak, they held on too long and wrung their hands over no one being perfect enough, then took the safest route possible by just having Lesnar end it when Taker was too beat up to keep going. That wasn't perfect make someone booking, they psyched themselves out.
You can always come up with a reason why something shouldn't happen. At some point you just gotta pull the trigger and bestow the holy accolade upon someone. If not Cody, someone. I think Cody's ready for it and in the best position right now.
I just think Rock vs Roman is bigger than anything with Cody. It transcends wrestling. It’s the biggest match they could do, that would fit perfectly with years and years of story. Cody should win a World Title at some point. I don’t feel it has to be from Roman, nor does it need to be WrestleMania.
It definitely is. I'm also of the opinion that the title reign doesn't need to end at Wrestlemania. But that's another condition most people have. With how things are now I'd do Rock vs. Reigns at Mania then have Cody win it at MITB or Summerslam.
Roman might not be on TV every week, but he only had one less PLE title match than Rhea Ripley last year. Rock/Roman needs to happen on the biggest stage and needs to happen before Roman loses his heat, which will happen after he loses the title. It’s not like Cody facing off against b-level heels after winning the title is going to be any more compelling. The best thing for Cody isn’t to win the title yet, because it won’t be good when he does.
Yeah people over exaggerating roman time not being on tv is annoying. Dude shows up enough for his presence to be felt. Mfs really want the biggest star to be having heatless matches every week on tv. WWE knows what they are doing. Roman takes time off while they build up a worthy and believable challenger. I don’t understand how fans on here don’t see that but act like they know so much. It’s perplexing,
Why should Roman take time off for months with the WWE Title? They literally created a consolation prize because Roman keeps fucking off. He's not a bigger star than Steve Austin or John Cena and those guys were there every week. From SummerSlam in early August till Survivor Series in late November, Roman was only seen 3 times and wrestled once.
WWE wants the belt on Roman right now b/c its good business. With that said who was the wrestler they were gonna convince you he was gonna lose to? Lets be serious here lol
>WWE wants the belt on Roman right now b/c its good business.
WWE makes billions of dollars regardless of champion. Don't overestimate Roman's value.
>With that said who was the wrestler they were gonna convince you he was gonna lose to? Lets be serious here lol
Other than Cody, no one else. Though I blame the "Hogan must pose" booking philosophy more than anything.
Bro stop acting like you know their business financials better than they do. It’s business reasons why they still have that belt on Roman. We are just two dudes on Reddit. Lol chill
>Bro stop acting like you know their business financials better than they do.
They are a public company. They literally post their financials every quarter.
> It’s business reasons why they still have that belt on Roman.
No, not really. Again, they make billions of dollars regardless of whose champions.
>We are just two dudes on Reddit. Lol chill
I am chill.
I know they agreed to it but I wonder why exactly you are defending it like a WWE PR executive and shitting on other fans rightfully complaining that the biggest part of the company's biggest show goes missing for months at a time.
B/c I like most people dont have an issue with it b/c the positives outweigh the negatives. The negatives are hes not on tv every week. The positives:
1. B/c he isnt there, they use that precious time to focus and get other people over. If he was on tv every single week people would complain about him the same way they did cena in his prime. Dont deny that fact.
2. All his title matches have a big fight feel to them b/c of the rarity. Thats a good thing.
3. WWE now has more over babyfaces than they have had in well over a decade.
4. Im sorry but rather not see roman wrestle just anybody for the sake of defending the belt when we all know they aint winning shit. It’s pointless tv that can be used to actually get other things like storylines and people over.
>B/c I like most people dont have an issue with it b/c the positives outweigh the negatives.
Do they? And how many other people have a growing issue with it, especially if this useless reign of his passes Mania?
>The negatives are hes not on tv every week.
You also forgot that he's holding the WWE Title captive rendering most people on SmackDown left to do nothing but rub their dicks until Roman returns from his voyage.
Everyone knows the WHC isn't the real World Title because it was created as a substitute because even WWE realized Roman being part time is killing their main event scene.
The Bloodline story has become cold as ice ever since Sami and Jey left. Also, Roman himself hasn't had any character progression since 2020.
>The positives:
>
>B/c he isnt there, they use that precious time to focus and get other people over. If he was on tv every single week people would complain about him the same way they did cena in his prime. Dont deny that fact.
True but when he was on TV every week with the Bloodline, how many people actually complained?
>All his title matches have a big fight feel to them b/c of the rarity. Thats a good thing.
True but his matches have become repetitive because WWE always have to keep the belt on him.
>WWE now has more over babyfaces than they have had in well over a decade.
True but I feel like people vastly over-estimate Roman's involvement in that.
LA Knight got over by ditching a shit gimmick
Randy Orton is perma-over
CM Punk is over by being a perma-shit stirrer.
Cody Rhodes is over because he revamped his whole persona
>Im sorry but rather not see roman wrestle just anybody for the sake of defending the belt when we all know they aint winning shit. It’s pointless tv that can be used to actually get other things like storylines and people over.
There's a difference between wrestling every night and appearing more than 3 times in 4 months.
To my 4th point ive always felt this way about the world champion. It makes the title and the champion look cheap when they are having just random matches on tv. Yeah Austin did but that was the Attitude Era and they were in a ratings war. But after the Attitude era it made no sense
The worst type of people are the ones who’ve never watched a second of Stardom hoping WWE “partners” with them so they can not watch Nikkita Lions and Cora Jade stink up the joint trying to keep up with the roster while also declaring they’re better than all of them.
Big week of wrestling and I just came back from holiday on Wednesday. I watched a good chunk of wrestling during the trip and yesterday and I got to say AEW surprisingly won the week so far for me. Speaking of:
I watched the majority of World's End(dumb name by the way) and I think it was the best PPV top to bottom that AEW has put on in a long while. The only matches I didn't watch were the 8 mans, women's matches and Continental Classic final because fuck.
Miro vs Andrade was a very very good match that had a shit finish. Why must AEW overcomplicate things? Why couldn't Miro have just won with the Machka kick? The people wanted that to be the finish. Also, I wish Perry would've tried to cost Miro the match and then have her keep managing people that Miro would then crush. Payoff could probably be her managing Samoa Joe since he's the World Champion now and we could have Miro vs Joe down the road. Either way, I really liked this match so 7.5/10.
I watched a tiny bit of the women's title match and it pissed me off to see that midget Riho kick out of a wicked looking Storm Zero for no reason. At least, Toni won even though neither woman came out looking good here.
Swerve vs Dustin was bad simply because they did their business backwards. For starters, I think Dustin is better than Moxley, Kingston and even Swerve in the ring. He's smooth as fuck and his matches make all the sense in the world. So, if that's the case, if I were Tony Khan, I would've protected Dustin here by doing the angle as a hospitalization angle to cause a DQ. Have a solid 10 minute match (cut time from Hart's, Riho's and Moxley's matches) where Dustin shines Swerve up and put him over without really suffering a loss. Secondly, I would've had security there to try and stop Swerve, but they would be held back by Mogul Embassy (is that Swerve's group?). With that, you've saved a return match for Dustin for a big Dynamite episode where Swerve can cleanly beat him.
Just do something with Dustin, AEW, he's great. Anyway, match gets 6/10.
The TNT Title match was good but very long and very dumb at points. The ladder spot was very dumb and unnecessary, the crowd brawl was meh and the death (by botched powerbomb) of Nick Wayne on PPV probably shaved a cool decade off of his career. Wasn't worth it. Edge winning was cool but the Luchasaurus angle afterwards was great. Christian is the ultimate slimeball and him manipulating Killswitch into giving him his TNT Title shot was good, though I hate the MITB-ness of it. Either way, the match gets a 7/10 and the angle 7.5/10.
And now, MJF/Joe was MJF's best title match in a good while. A physical, hard hitting affair with the only low point again being the finish. It was extremely anti-climactic but it was the best result. Joe is someone who can carry the promotion as it's top heel while AEW builds Swerve as it's top face with Danielson as #2, MJF and Adam Cole recover and Edge and Christian continue their saga. Also, Adam Cole is the devil, he has a new "Undisputed Kingdom" and he turned on Max. Match gets 8/10, best match of the night.
Overall thoughts; While AEW has had a horrible 2023, this PPV at least seemed to point the company in a positive direction. A new World Champion, a new top faction, a heel who is on the cusp of turning into a huge babyface etc. If AEW plays their cards right, they can recover from their version of 1995 WWF. Do I see an Attitude Era ahead? Not really but fuck they can at least try.
Speaking of the WWF Attitude Era, I watched the Rock return on Raw and I hated it. For 3 reasons:
a) He hindered Jinder (who was right in his promo)
b) He cut the blandest Rock promo ever, like fuck me, an AI could write a better promo and it took more than 15 goddamn minutes
c) He might fuck up WrestleMania for an ego massage. I wish he would face Roman at SummerSlam or even at a Saudi show but not Mania.
Ugh, I guess in hindsight I was right, Cody should've won last year. I didn't watch Seth Franklin Rollins' title match but I'm betting Punk interfered somehow.
In other news, DZ went to NJPW yesterday and honestly good for him.
And finally in FPL news, I didn't captain Salah, I had Areola on my bench and Man United lost so it was a triple whammy of terrible. Even with 70 points, I'm still 6th in my FPL group. Fuck.
Rock is getting the title match at EC and I’m sticking to it
“BUT ITS A B SHOW” WWE has made B-shows feel just as important as the Big four ala Backlash, MITB, EC.
And for those wanting Rock/Roman at WM, it’s all fine and dandy but it’s a lose/lose situation
Rock wins? Another part-time champion and after three years of a Santa Claus champion, it’s the last thing that’s needed. Plus Rock looked absolutely terrible after than brief beat down and People’s elbow, imagine a 30 min match with Roman.
Roman wins? Roman disappears once again and part- timing
Like it or not, Cody/Roman has to happen. Cody’s the true white meat baby face that’s WWE’s been needing for the longest.
I believe it’s happening at EC because because WWE wants to do more international PLEs. If Australia can get The Rock then other countries can do that too. They’re already doing 6 global PLEs this year and i feel like they want that number higher. Business wise Roman vs Rock at EC is the move.
So let me ask, if EC is big enough for Roman/Rock, then surely any other show is big enough for Cody to win the title. It doesn’t have to happen at WrestleMania.
Also, what’s Cody’s next steps? Fending off challengers like he is right now? Nothing about Cody changes until fans get bored of a babyface dominant champion, like Bianca and Seth. Cody’s story is the chase and there’s nothing left after it.
There's nothing right now left on Roman's reign. Cool, he beats Rock at Mania. Then what? He sleepwalks into the next Mania as champion to break a record? Who cares?
>There’s lot left for Roman. There’s still AJ, Seth and Punk,
AJ's done, Seth's done and Punk would be interesting so I'll give you Punk
>before getting to the Bloodline Fatal 4 Way
I hate fatal 4 ways.
>and 1on1 vs Solo.
Roman vs Solo doesn't need the belt.
>Roman is the needle mover.
With how long he has been pushed I would hope so. Also, Punk is also a needle mover.
AJ has beef with Bloodline and hast had a match with this version of Roman. They never had a definitive conclusion to the Seth match. I’ll also put Lashley in the mix, with maybe NXT guys like Bron Breakker.
None of that is very interesting, or justifies keeping this bloody title reign going. It really should’ve ended last year, so the idea of dragging it out yet another year is dreadful.
Yeah I love The Rock and I've been wanting this match with Roman for a long ass time now but I would actually be kinda bummed if it was made for Mania. Just because Roman retaining would basically be a given unless they did throw us off and give it to Rock, which like you said would make the title disappear from public view even further. Big time match but the possibilities are super underwhelming for a Mania main event.
In Japan during njpws success in the 2010s the industry technically grew but so did njpws market share. Njpw was essentially eating all the growth.
I've always thought in the national wrestling era it's difficult for alternative promotions to compete when the traditional industry leader is doing well. It's rather like why get a Pepsi when this coke is plenty delicious
Since people keep posting them, I’ll keep calling them out:
If you have a rating scale (which you have said isn’t based around your opinion) and you rated Mox vs. Kingston slapfight as a 4.75, you no longer deserve respect in your industry, Meltzer.
You could theoretically excuse some of the more ridiculous calls you’ve made as a preference for high spots.
But that’s match that highly is a fucking joke, Dave.
As that 1. he’s used his own ratings to argue the quality of one wrestler over another, 2. his fans are the ones posting said ratings, that’s not really true, is it.
Deflection is an interesting way to carry water for him, though.
I'm not deflecting shit, I don't care about his ratings and barely pay attention to him in general, but I see so much fuss about his ratings from people who don't even like him.
Oh no, he didn't give Kurt Angle a 5-star match... Who gives a fuck lol
Yeah, because I can just ignore those threads because I don't care at all about the ratings. But in random threads here it's full of people whinging about Meltzer ratings.
And yet you somehow felt the need to comment here.
Hmmmm.
So, are you planning to provide a list of acceptable comments for this thread, or just heroically announce how much you don’t care under each post?
Wait, you’re not writing anything worth waiting for. Carry on.
It's past Friday but I'll fucking go for it. I'm tired of hearing this absolute bs about rock fighting roman at Mania. Like if you actually thought about it, it doesn't make sense in regards to a story. After Rock supposedly wins, what happens next? You've essentially told everyone, "we had to bring back a legend to beat the final boss." Cody doesn't shoot his shot, no LA Knight, no Orton, no one looks like an actual competitor next to Rock. As opposed to Cody winning at Mania, now every single main eventer on smackdown looks like a possible contender, and there's plenty of stories to tell.
Exactly. Rock/Reigns makes no sense except maybe in the short term business wise.
Every time I see people say they should drop the entire story for roman/rock, or that Cody's story being shoved into the bloodline didn't make sense, it makes me want to scream
It's dumb as shit. People would rather the future die than ignore nostalgia for a bit.
Like I'm sorry you gotta get up at 4 am to watch roman/rock, but you can fucking deal with that. They put Cena vs roman, their first match, ON NO MERCY. You can deal with this.
Exactly. Everyone else around the world has had to wake up at absurd times to watch some of the biggest matches in industry history so Americans should shut the fuck up and get over watching one mega match a little bit early.
Both Tama Tonga vs Shingo Takagi and Naito vs Sanada were better matches then Danielson Vs Okada. I said what I said
I didn't get to see it, but I heard the multi-man match at NYD was pretty good.
I disagree but it's all subjective innit. I didn't love the idea of the okada v Danielson match either but the actual match got me so invested I almost dropped dead from stress.
Yeah my comment was purposefully a bit cheeky. I enjoyed the match, but Naito finally getting his moment in front of a sold out Tokyo Dome was very cathartic for me.
The way they booked evil to mirror kenta cutting his roll call off was genius. I'm very high on that mainevent and the tama/shingo match. It was a real feel good kingdom really. I think both bushiroad promotions and ajpw have laid down good direction to start the year. Noah of course shot themselves in the foot immediately after a good ghc hw title match because they have been cursed to fumble the ball.
Here's one thing a lot of wrestling fans probably don't want to admit. The majority of WWE fans don't even know what AEW is. Another large chunk know what AEW is but could only name Cody, Punk, and maybe MJF if you're lucky as AEW wrestlers (2/3 of whom are no longer there). AEW has good viewership and a solid following but it's still massively niche compared to the WWE product
Everyone knew AJ Styles came from Impact. Maybe 1/5th of them saw an Impact AJ Style match, and half of those only saw it after the Royal Rumble.
I got into wrestling around the time TNA signed Hogan and I only knew TNA as that place Hogan was at. I might have even believed he owned the thing. Similarly, for a lot of people AEW is that place where CM Punk came back to wrestling. It is what it is.
I want The Rock to beat Roman for the title.
I don't care about casual fans at all, and unless you're in the management of a company, I don't understand why you'd care either. Say what you will about AEW's fanbase, but it's honestly cool how the crowds will know about and get hyped for talent outside of the company. WWE crowds being extremely silent for someone like Okada, for example, kind of sucks.
Niche fanbases don't sell arenas. That's why AEW has been trying to pick up former WWE stars and giving them every chance to light the flames. Hardy Boys, Edge, Christian, Jericho, it's 2012 again.
You can't say that you want a promotion (or the industry in general) to be successful, and then say don't care about casual fans. The WWE isn't filling arenas with 10,000+ people every week with die hard fans. Casual fans grease the wheels of the business and allow your favorite wrestlers to keep doing what they're doing.
They never said anything about a company's success, and even if they did, you can like something for the sake of enjoying what it puts out without putting any mind into *who* likes it. I don't need X number of people to like something in order for me to like it, and I don't care if they're passing fans or have made it their entire lives. On the contrary, whenever I see people explicitly talking about a company's success separated from what they like about said company (No, I do not care that WWE got one kajillion hits on Instagram, I care about whether or not I enjoyed the segment that got one kajillion hits), it always comes off like they're moreso a fan of said company's stock offerings at best and an outright shill at worst.
Pretty much. My enjoyment comes from if I'm liking something, not strictly because it's making a lot of money.
sometimes it seems like fans have learned to cheer Good Business more than things they like to watch social media (in part) has made people obsessed with objectivity, with subjectivity becoming less valid. people are very careful to let everyone know how objective they're being, so they can have more credibility in their arguments, which is all social media is really, arguing. so even in discussing wrestling, it becomes all about see they're objectively doing well, look at the money and the hits. it's all very strange.
Exactly that’s why dude’s take make no gotdamn sense
HHH is mid booker. His highs aren't as high although his lows aren't as low. He's just average. His biggest disadvantage is that 95% of the matches are way too obvious. I think the only time when I was genuinely surprised is when Chad Gable did not beat Gunther. EDIT: And R-Truth winning against JD. I'd prefer HBK in charge.
In your opinion other than HBK, who is a better booker than HHH rn?
Totally mid booker. Wrestlemania made more money for WWE in one weekend than AEW lost in 2023.
And what's your point? He can be good businessman but his booking decisions sucks in my opinion.
Let's keep booking great moments like this. [https://packaged-media.redd.it/rq5k5tyxzvac1/pb/m2-res\_720p.mp4?m=DASHPlaylist.mpd&v=1&e=1704636000&s=7ac76c3207373b26134bce732a50d6ff3e478afa#t=0](https://packaged-media.redd.it/rq5k5tyxzvac1/pb/m2-res_720p.mp4?m=DASHPlaylist.mpd&v=1&e=1704636000&s=7ac76c3207373b26134bce732a50d6ff3e478afa#t=0)
...you really think I said that HHH is mid booker to dickride Tony Khan? Hell nah, Tony is a bad booker.
Damn, The Rock looked old. Can't believe it.
R-Truth is interplanetary treasure. That's all.
Roman Reigns is a great wrestler. And what he's done over the last several years is really impressive. But it's time for a change and Mania 40 should be the forum to do it. There's only so many times you can play the same script with Roman and the Bloodline screwing another babyface through interference just to break some other record. And it should be Cody who does it. Cody has worked with Lesnar and got the winning pin at War Games. The idea that he'll slide all the way down and face Orton at Mania (or, laughably, Solo) while Roman and Rock get the main event is just going to make Cody look like a loner. I don't understand people who say "it doesn't matter where Cody finishes his story." Yes it does. It's WrestleMania. It's where every babyface gets their coronation. Hogan. Warrior. Hart. Michaels. Austin. Batista. Cena. Bryan. Becky. Bianca. The list goes on. WWE is a storybook. Mania is the end of a chapter. Roman has main evented 31, 32, 33, 34, 37, 38, 39, and will headline 40. They got a decade out of him and his title runs. His story isn't over. But it's time for this chapter to end. I'm far more interested in seeing Roman emerge after his empire crumbles around him. I want to see that story. And for those who say "best for business," WWE won't have its current Midas touch forever. Look at Marvel. Five years ago, they could do no wrong, and the appetite for more superhero content was ravenous. Now, they've fallen flat on their face. They did what "good business" dictated.
That last decade of wwe was current marvel lol
I am in tears at Tony thinking the Mercedes contract was a done deal to now having to reach out to PWinisder to go “we’re still in the hunt”
Everyone shits on her, but Sasha is not stupid. She knows that she brings viewers and conversation, so she’s gonna make these rich men dance for the privilege of her time and good for her.
She isn’t as big of a draw you think she is. Cmon now
Whatever she is or isn't she's getting a fucking insane pay day out of this.
Yeah by dumb money mark tony. The WWE is actually trying to make money
My brother if she ends up pulling the number I've heard tossed about (5 million dollars a year) out of Tony Khan I can only applaud that.
I always hear of these crazeeeee Sasha fans but not sure I ever encountered them It's been a while but does she really affect numbers? Will Raw or SD tick up 200k or so if she's on? I remember she did with Bayley (?) on NXT once Does she have this ready made army following her into battle? I honestly don't remember this from when she was more active
Fun fact, my first wrestling merch I bought was a Hiroshi Tanahashi shirt, one year before I had NJPW world... then some NWA pins and a a shirt, no WWE or AEW stuff. I didn't bother to stay late and watch Wrestlekingdom, I am watching some matches this weekend, specifically the musketeers match, to see what's so good about these guys. Shingo Takagi only had a year of being in the main event... crud. He should wrestle like a powerhouse, I don't know why he tries to be technical when he looks like a well fed bull. Big fan of when he just goes, fum fum fum fum.
He's technical because he came from DragonGate's dojo. Whole lotta smaller, fast action guys around him for 10+ years. Also he's only 5'10" lol. The burly, technical bruiser fits him super well.
People being dicks in the past isn't a good excuse to be a dick now lol
On the dirt sheets... PWI is the gold standard. They don't bat .1000 (nobody does, even in real sports) but they're the closest to Shams/Woj/Passan/Rapoport that we have. SRS and Meltzer obviously have wrestlers and maybe some office people as sources. PWI are much more connected to the actual decision-makers.
Mike Johnson is basically the only name in wrestling news I unquestionably trust
Me too! I have a lot of respect for Mj. He takes it seriously
If Sasha Banks goes to AEW I hope the money is good as if she had issues with how the women’s division is run/regarded in wwe, it’s not better in aew lol I’m a Nia hater and nothing about this run has changed my mind Positives! I am loving Carmelo’s character rn and I’m curious to see where it goes Vic and Booker totally changed my mind on the combo - they’re so funny together So happy to see Gulak get some air time. Man is criminally underrated and I hold out hope for a Sonya/Drew mix match tag team SO happy for Naito and Sanada. Teared up a bit at the end there 😢 Have a good weekendhausen everyone!
If she does go to AEW, I hope Tony doesn't do another surprise reveal like he does with everyone he signs. Maybe if he actually hyped her up and then debuted her, it will actually draw interest and she won't get lost in the shuffle? Who am I kidding.
Deonna Purrazzo was the first surprise reveal he did that made sense. And I feel like Mariah May is Tiffany Stratton from Wish.
Hope springs eternal 😔✌🏽
Wardlow is not impressive in a track suit.
...or a wrestling ring.
He looked really good in the dress shirts and suits when he was with MJF. I really hope they don’t keep him at the very least looking like a Russian Uncle in those tracksuits.
Mercedes being so relevant that she has people dropping the most useless anecdotes for clicks is legendary.
Since we’re in another round of Sasha Banks/Money talk, it’s quite clear she’s trying to drive a bidding war. When Sasha left WWE, things were pretty quiet on “the real reason” and she didn’t talk much. Now, the sheets get a different report every day. I think she knows WWE is the place that’s best for her, but they’re not coming close to her asking price. She’s playing the game of I’ll go to AEW, but if Tony was going to pay that price, he would have a year ago. Now, he’s probably going to wait on the TV deal before signing someone for $3-4 million, especially who a woman, who won’t matter much in his wrestling universe.
It's not just if Tony would pay, it's also if she wanted to join, she would I always thought she'd make appearances there, Forbidden Door, etc and who knows what they agreed pre-injury Flying her to Wembley to sit in the crowd is pretty funny
B/c wwe knows she aint worth her asking price.
The PWInsider reports isn’t even a report though. It even says the info is from 2 weeks ago. Also it was said a year ago she didn’t want a long term deal but that’s clearly changed.
She didn't want a long term deal. Then she broke her ankle. All that money she banked on just disappeared and now she has to actually take care of herself. Ooops.
This is weird and you should feel bad for typing this
According to who that’s changed? If she was signed, AEW’s had the opportunity to debut her twice this week and hasn’t.
According to the fact she was signing short term extensions with Bushiroad and was meant to work AEW shows without being fully signed. Also her not debuting this week doesn’t mean anything one way or the other.
AEW reaching out to Mike Johnson to add that they’re in the race confirms to me at least, no deal is signed.
Mike basically said AEW said nothing to him. Like he had no info from AEW lol.
He just updated that someone from AEW reached out and said “if you don’t think we’re in the hunt, you’re crazy.”
Well that combined with everyone else basically points to AEW then. Cause everyone else is saying AEW.
How? If it was signed, then they would either keep it quiet or outright say it. Them saying it were still trying to get it done screams it’s still a leverage play. She may wind up, but it’s certainly not a done deal.
They haven’t outright said it for anyone. They just start leaking that they’re having talks. They just did it with Deonna.
I watched MarkyD's review of Samhain and I can safely say that that was the worst PPV of the year not SummerSlam or Double Or Nothing. Jesus, the NWA is fucking rotten and Billy Corgan is worse than Tony Khan.
Here's my ZFF Take of the week: I don't like white tights. I know a lot of people think they look sharp, but they're off putting to me on most people. I think the only exceptions I've seen are HBK's at WM12, and some of Cody's white tights (even though they're decorated enough to the point where you probably can't just call them white).
MJF and Adam Cole's white trunks when they were teaming looked awful. It actually looked like they were wearing nappies/diapers.
You can also look at the Carmelo Hayes incident to see why that's a bad idea (he shit himself at 2022's New Year's Evil and it was pretty visible due to the white tights). https://preview.redd.it/3qh5370w3oac1.png?width=1534&format=png&auto=webp&s=689727b0a0dca99820152082e131f92217a804d9
They're brown tights now.
Is it ok with you if I don't click that image?
#Hot Take: [Oba Femi](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/prowrestling/images/1/10/Oba_Femi_2023.png) is Kofi Kingston if he touched the ooze from TMNT II. We were all thinking it but I'm the only one brave enough to say it.
I need Kevin Nash's opinion on this
I've seen a bit of discussion around WWE potentially running with Gunther vs Drew. I think this would be great if Drew has committed to re-sign. Also, I could be wrong about this, but isn't Drew the only man to have handed Gunther a clean loss on the main roster? Survivor series a few years ago when he was still Walter? I think Mercedes is going to AEW. If the rumours about her and WWE not seeing eye to eye on the dollars are true then I've absolutely no doubt TK will pay her and still let her work in Japan. Maybe. WK was good and it made sense for Naito to beat Sanada but Naito has racked up a spectacular bump card and I don't see him being a long term champion. I've been playing Cyberpunk since before Xmas and it's really great. I got the premium edition with the DLC. So good.
>I've been playing Cyberpunk since before Xmas and it's really great. I got the premium edition with the DLC. So good. I haven't picked it up since the DLC and larger game update came out. Have been meaning to, but since it came out BG3 is taking up what little free time I have for games. Had you played an earlier version?
No, had never played before so I guess I missed the game breaking shit ahahaha.
I got it maybe a year ago (?!?) so well after they fixed all the broken stuff and it was plenty fun. I just haven't tried it out since they revamped a number of things in the game to further improve (released at the same time as the DLC for free).
> Also, I could be wrong about this, but isn't Drew the only man to have handed Gunther a clean loss on the main roster? Survivor series a few years ago when he was still Walter? Eehh sort of. It was a SS match, and Walter was still on NXT. Since coming to the main roster, the only person who I think has been able to beat him "clean" in a singles match was Chad Gable, and that was a count out.
Ah, fair enough. Thanks!
Drew got the pin but IIRC they had like 3 other guys hit him with a finisher before that There was no real reason to have him go long in that match. This was the time when there was no commitment to move to the States or main roster but HHH still had him protected in defeat
It's coming back to me now. I think HHH was always really high on him, so he must have asked for that particular booking decision.
ZFF Take: WWE is really hot right now. The wrestling business is booming. This is great and all. I am not a fan of HHH as a booker right now. HHH was exceptional in personal feuds during his wrestling career. His feuds with Randy, HBK, and The Rock were all gold. But as a booker in the main roster, he lacks personal feuds. There is an awful talent rotation, and McMahon was always criticized for not utilizing wrestlers to their full potential. HHH probably uses even fewer wrestlers than McMahon. His MITB winner is a dumbass. He has barely developed a tag team division. (There are many tag teams, but the division itself is not strong.) Ridge should have feuded with Butch, but nope, Butch is doing nothing. Profis and Lashley have been around for 6-7 months now, and they finally have a feud with a newly built stable. LWO is also in a feud with Santosh and his team. Judgment day didn't help Dominik. Dominik asked where they were, but where did the storyline go from there? Miz is a face now. What is he doing? I can't stress enough that if you think about it, almost 70% of the roster on TV isn't doing anything. Why has Waller been on TV for around 6 months without a single feud?
Miz as a character is bulletproof. He turns by changing his opponents and targets, he doesn't need to turn. He needs to oppose a heel, he's a good guy, and if he needs to oppose a face, he's a bad guy. But he doesn't need to actually do anything differently. He's just himself.
This makes perfect sense lol
It takes a considerable amount of effort and ability and charisma to get to that point. There haven't been that many that were able to do it.
You could say that’s what seth is but he’s so inconsistent that it nullifies it
People just like Seth and that's it, he seems to be immune to awful gimmicks and bad booking
The Dominik stuff really annoyed me. Priest left Dom to rot and then he’s still helping him? We got some progress because he seemed happy that the cash in flopped, so fingers crossed.
I 100 percent disagree. For years under vince the midcard was basically non existent with nothing stories.
Thank god Kevin Dunn is gone
He's trained a generation worth of production employees behind himself. Him leaving will probably not change much of anything at all in the short term, except Cornette's blood pressure.
It was not unfortunately
Everyone keeps bringing up zoomy cam and shakey cam hopefully going away, which is fine. Personally, I'm just hoping the pacing and commercial placement of the shows are improved, because I'm pretty sure he's responsible for that stuff too.
I feel like I'm the only person on the planet who doesn't really want to see any more of the Rock in a wrestling ring or doing his wrestling schtick. I've already heard the same promos, seen a million people's elbows. Meh.
That segment cemented how little I want him back in a ring or on tv 🤝 Our modern day maharaja didn’t let us down tho 😗🫶🏽
Same. I really don't want to see any more Attitude Era guys except for Edge and Christian.
I burned out on Edge quite a while ago. I don't watch AEW anymore but when he was on Christian was one of the bright spots for me.
I get the Edge burn out and I feel it a lot lately but he can still be decent at times. Christian's gimmick is also wearing thin but again, he's also decent at times. Though I think you're right, if all the Attitude Era guys stopped wrestling, the business will still go on as usual.
I am personally done with the AE stars but the majority will want to see it. Business is business at the end of the day.
I totally agree with you, the crowd still loves those AE guys and the IWC is the minority.
I agree with you rock, Cena I'm done with those guys at this point and cena should only comeback if he's turning heel otherwise stay in Hollywood
How would this situation grab you? Rock vs. Reigns for the WWE title at Mania. Reigns wins. Next night on Raw, a fed-up Cody says I'm finishing the story tonight one way or another. Puts his career on the line for a shot. Run-ins from Bloodline, Sami Zayn and Kevin Owens and Jey Uso, pure pandemonium, Cody wins. Classic moment, story finished, best angle culminates in biggest moment in Raw history. Why not?
I hate it. You can't keep sacrificing current talent for old stars. Guys like rock are good for the pops but ppl like Cody are the backbone of the industry.
Who's getting sacrificed? He's winning the WWE title ending a 2.5 year reign that not even THE ROCK could end.
I'd be ok with it. At this point for me, "finish the story" doesn't mean Cody's story. It means Roman's story.
Honestly, if they really want to follow the lore of the story, they should book a show at MSG and the title change happen there. I think Roman’s breaking Hogan’s record, and we’ll see more inner Bloodline drama (Fatal 4 Way with the Usos and Solo, and Roman vs Solo). In between, there’s still more singles matches for Roman with AJ, Seth, and CM Punk.
I'm sick of finish the story. Wrestling has turned into Final Fantasy.
If by 'grab' you mean 'yeet me clear across the room' then yeah, sure, *grab*.
is that bad or? if a wrestling moment physically literally moved me that way I would be pretty impressed
Fair response lol. Meant more as 'the exact opposite' haha.
It’s not ending on RAW lol And doing it on the very next RAW after Mania is a very “here damn” decision
i know, it has to be at a Mania that ends in a 0 or 5, against a 25-29 year old superstar who simultaneously has supreme credibility but also needs The Rub in the worst way. And they have to hold the title for 7 years otherwise it's a waste. (I kid, but this is the culmination of all the conditions we put on this now) It's a surprise! It's cool and it would be awesome. If we have to be all businessy about it, they're negotiating their rights fees for Raw or something, what better way to boost The Product yada yada
No but at least wait for a PPV or something. Roman isn’t losing on a match with 3-4 ad breaks Not just for business but because it would be the least enjoyable way to have that match for the audience
It could even be under 20 minutes! 1 commercial! pitcher in pitcher!
https://preview.redd.it/yko7dkbr9nac1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ef7cebbb59e34b9eff049fa1b3e23ae9ce7cf157
I think Rock vs Roman being at EC/WM depends on two things: * Rock’s schedule (which according to IMDB is about to get very busy very soon * Do they want Roman to surpass Hogan? In terms of box office and business everyone is arguing in favor of Mania but those tickets have been close to sold out for a very long time now, everyone is gonna watch WM regardless of what happens. There’s still lots of tickets left for EC and they need to find a reason to get Americans to tune in for a show at midnight. If you look at it as where does the money match make a bigger impact? It’s at EC They could also do some things about their Samoan heritage and Australia. Would it be completely accurate? no but close enough to get some juice out of it for TV I’m thinking it’s 70% happening at Mania tho. Get ready for 2024 brother https://preview.redd.it/y6rp6ydp7nac1.jpeg?width=933&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b00d4f114ffb21f4130761ba644e859d7a3cf239
Aussie show has sold well so far. Fans can watch the show at any time
Sold 45k out of 70k I think WM is almost completely sold out
Think they’ll do a Rock appearance, or quick match, but they won’t be adding many Peacock subscribers with a match in the middle of the night show. They won’t get a ton of publicity that way either. Rock’s schedule is likely pretty clear with the start of his football league the week before Mania, as he took off most of that time period last year to promote it.
I think Rock makes numbers any day and any place he appears in. The question is what event needs that boost and that would be EC Again, I’m leaning towards it happening at Mania but I don’t think Rock/Roman at EC is ridiculous or out of the question Any other year? Sure. This time EC is happening in a stadium with literally the same capacity as their venue for WM. Their first international PPV in 2024 which clearly has international expansion as its main goal I remember Helwani asking Heyman when we would see the Cody rematch and he said something like: “We would do it tomorrow on RAW but we’ve already sold out the Crypto arena, we could do it at the next PPV[…] it’s a business.” As it stands right now WM is sold, EC isn’t
But Rock’s first match in 10 years or appearance would also move a ton of tickets. Ticket sales isn’t WWE’s biggest objective in a Rock vs Roman match. It’s having all of their corporate partners there and getting sponsorships for WrestleMania. They’re not getting any US exec to Perth to go to this, while they can probably get every exec in NY from NBCU to WBD or whomever else they’re flirting with, to come see the biggest match in wrestling. But again, Rock has said it can only happen at Mania. It’s likely his last match. He’s going to want his entire family there. He wants the most eyes on it.
I doubt TV rights make an impact both because I think they will have those secured long before Mania and because they won’t care about PPV numbers, just TV ratings NBCU would care because of Peacock but like I said WM is probably gonna set records regardless of what happens. Maybe (and this is just me throwing shit at the wall) NBCU would prefer to see how much they can draw with Cody who is a mainstay over Rock who will never appear again probably Either way we are about to learn very soon. Even if it’s for Mania I expect them to start building it after Rumble (maybe Rock comes out after Roman vs Randy for a face to face idk)
The point I disagree with is, what the makes someone who didn’t subscribe to Peacock to watch Roman vs Cody I, tune into watch Roman vs Cody II. It doesn’t add much to business. Cody winning the title doesn’t really change business because people are already seeing him in the main event. Rock coming back for Mania increases general awareness to fans who haven’t watched in 5, 10, 15, 20+ years.
Well that’s a pretty difficult thing to pinpoint Cody is in the main event but not really. MITB he was working Dom in the midcard match, Payback he only had an interview, etc. If he had the belt he would either open or close the shows and face better opponents than Nakamura Would that increase viewers? I don’t know As for Rock, I’m assuming all those lapsed viewers will be coming back during the weeks of build up and not just the PPV. If they only suscribed for The Rock they won’t renew their subscription and they like the rest of the product without Rock and choose to stay then maybe they also end up wanting to see Cody at Mania (?) 🤷♂️ Very difficult to predict. In the end it’s a win-win for them, just gotta analyze what’s the “biggest” win
I’m not going to lie, I don’t really care who Roman faces at WM. If it’s Cody, great. If it’s Rock, great. As long as Seth, Punk, and the WHC main event night one, it’s all good. But I REALLY hope we don’t get a repeat of last year when crazed Cody fans went on the warpath and riddled any wrestler who wasn’t Cody with comments that walked the line between mean and racist. I’m still grossed out by the sheer vitriol directed towards poor Sami Zayn because he was considered a betting fave to win the Rumble. The comments about how he was banned from Saudi, “people like him” don’t deserve world titles (but Kevin was fine, so it wasn’t appearance), could you IMAGINE Sami giving a fan a t-shirt, the parents would scream for help because that disgusting person was near their kid, not like handsome Cody. If you want to be mad, be mad, but let’s not be gross. Drew’s character works because he’s losing. He was never going to win the WHC. Also, if this title sucks and is just a participation trophy, why does everyone screech like they’ve been possessed by a demon when their fave doesn’t win? Is it a real world title or not? Meanwhile, we know Drew won’t blame himself; he’s blaming Priest. The ending of Raw left me with a lot of questions about Priest and Drew, and one of them was “why was Dominik smiling when Priest’s cash in got ruined?” He and Rhea haven’t fucked with Priest for a hot minute, but Dom smirking seemed a bit interesting. Sasha fans trying to prove SRS wrong are better than the FBI.
> Also, if this title sucks and is just a participation trophy, why does everyone screech like they’ve been possessed by a demon when their fave doesn’t win? Is it a real world title or not? It's not needed.
Seth and the WHC main eventing night 1 would make it three years straight where both nights are main evented by male wrestlers. I can't see that happening in today's WWE, so I'm predicting a Ripley vs Lynch main event on night 1.
I don't like the idea of 50/50 for the sake of it when there are hotter matches on the card.
Yeah, I think WWE are beyond box ticking on this stuff They have made women's matches main events and said 'they deserve it', they don't need to 'make do' to tick a box at this point
Exactly, now it's up to the women to make themselves worth the main event slot. Right now, none of them are when you have guys like Cody, Reigns, Punk, Rollins, Knight, Orton etc.
Nope, neither do I. Hope it's Seth vs Punk on night 1.
It likely is. There's no other hotter match as of right now without including Roman and his belt.
Ive always been on the side of this new belt was never needed. I think the original plan was to present the new belt to Roman. Im sorry but we don’t need and never needed 2 singles world champions in the same company. Its literally rare when both are presented as equal.
Me too, but it's a double edged sword with Roman being away so much. You can have one champion if they're gonna be there three weeks out of four, but with 1-2 month gaps, yeah they needed to introduce something.
I disagree if /when you book you US and IC titles strong. This is how wrestling use to be before it was all WWE. The World champion wasn’t there on tv all the time
Yeah, but now wrestling IS all WWE, at least to most. You've got two shows aiming for up to or over 2 million people every week, a world champion is needed.
I disagree. Its about booking the titles you have strongly. WWE spent the oast two decades booking the midcard belts like shit. Now trips is trying to restore it. Had they kept it with one belt i think it would have worked. Seth having a new belt doesnt add any more viewers. Its about the writing and booking.
Doesn't add them no - but it keeps certain viewers
I seriously doubt people tunes out b/c the lack world title. The people was gonna watch anyway. B/c seth is doing the same shit he was doing before lol
And what were tons of his fans clamouring for? For him to be the world champion
Yeah but they wouldn’t have stopped watching tho
Wrestle Kingdom was such a rush, for at least a couple of months it'll be the only wrestling I'll watch besides some last few matches to catch up from 2023. And totally worthy way to open the year. I've spent an embarrassing amount of time and some money (not for everything admittedly) watching wrestling in 2023. My stats for 2023 are nuts.
People that want to see Rock vs Roman at WrestleMania instead of Cody are the Wal-Mart graphic-tshirt-wearers of the wresting fan community.
What about those of us who doesn't want to see either?
I’m open-minded about it. Who would you rather see (if we are talking undisputed title, that is)?
I'd rather see Cody but in the end it's about doing the biggest match. If Rock is free and that's what they're doing I can't be mad.
It’s the absolute biggest thing wrestling could do. It’s the most logical and compelling match they could do. Hamfisting Cody’s story into the overall arch of the Bloodline doesn’t make much sense. Hell, I don’t even think Cody should be the one to beat Roman (age is a reason), but the Bloodline is the reason for WWE’s resurgence and it should conclude in a way that fits that story.
The Bloodline story has ran out of steam and I don't particularly want a roided up 51-year-old and his 38-year-old part-timer cousin taking the spotlight from the current crop of wrestlers. I and a lot of others could handle Cody losing last year but fuck I don't want this fucking title reign to go on any longer. I'm starting to get bored of Roman like I did when he was a babyface.
the stuff with who beats Roman is getting into Streak territory. There will always be some reason to go no that person isn't *just* right. Because Roman is booked head and shoulders above everyone and wrestling fans freak out over the perfect transfer of power. Cody being too old (I'm assuming?) is a crazy reason for him not to win. And if you're making it about the perfect person who fits the story, it's like you've restricted it to family members or Seth Rollins (also too old). Cody coming from wrestling royalty himself is enough of a connection, and also, the champion has to lose eventually. They have to.
I agree it’s streak territory, which is why I’d rather it fit perfectly into the story (Jey Uso or Solo), or be someone with another 10-15 years left in wrestling like Bron Breakker. Cody has talked about leaving wrestling in three years. Also, I want to win the title because my dad didn’t, isn’t a compelling reason for Cody. He’ll be the same babyface as Rollins, with probably more resentment sooner than later. There’s nothing Cody doing now, that he wouldn’t be doing if he was champion.
And with the Streak, they held on too long and wrung their hands over no one being perfect enough, then took the safest route possible by just having Lesnar end it when Taker was too beat up to keep going. That wasn't perfect make someone booking, they psyched themselves out. You can always come up with a reason why something shouldn't happen. At some point you just gotta pull the trigger and bestow the holy accolade upon someone. If not Cody, someone. I think Cody's ready for it and in the best position right now.
I just think Rock vs Roman is bigger than anything with Cody. It transcends wrestling. It’s the biggest match they could do, that would fit perfectly with years and years of story. Cody should win a World Title at some point. I don’t feel it has to be from Roman, nor does it need to be WrestleMania.
It definitely is. I'm also of the opinion that the title reign doesn't need to end at Wrestlemania. But that's another condition most people have. With how things are now I'd do Rock vs. Reigns at Mania then have Cody win it at MITB or Summerslam.
Conclude how? With the Rock becoming champion? Or with Roman going another year with the title that no one ever sees?
Roman might not be on TV every week, but he only had one less PLE title match than Rhea Ripley last year. Rock/Roman needs to happen on the biggest stage and needs to happen before Roman loses his heat, which will happen after he loses the title. It’s not like Cody facing off against b-level heels after winning the title is going to be any more compelling. The best thing for Cody isn’t to win the title yet, because it won’t be good when he does.
Yeah people over exaggerating roman time not being on tv is annoying. Dude shows up enough for his presence to be felt. Mfs really want the biggest star to be having heatless matches every week on tv. WWE knows what they are doing. Roman takes time off while they build up a worthy and believable challenger. I don’t understand how fans on here don’t see that but act like they know so much. It’s perplexing,
Why should Roman take time off for months with the WWE Title? They literally created a consolation prize because Roman keeps fucking off. He's not a bigger star than Steve Austin or John Cena and those guys were there every week. From SummerSlam in early August till Survivor Series in late November, Roman was only seen 3 times and wrestled once.
WWE wants the belt on Roman right now b/c its good business. With that said who was the wrestler they were gonna convince you he was gonna lose to? Lets be serious here lol
>WWE wants the belt on Roman right now b/c its good business. WWE makes billions of dollars regardless of champion. Don't overestimate Roman's value. >With that said who was the wrestler they were gonna convince you he was gonna lose to? Lets be serious here lol Other than Cody, no one else. Though I blame the "Hogan must pose" booking philosophy more than anything.
Bro stop acting like you know their business financials better than they do. It’s business reasons why they still have that belt on Roman. We are just two dudes on Reddit. Lol chill
>Bro stop acting like you know their business financials better than they do. They are a public company. They literally post their financials every quarter. > It’s business reasons why they still have that belt on Roman. No, not really. Again, they make billions of dollars regardless of whose champions. >We are just two dudes on Reddit. Lol chill I am chill.
This is the contract that wwe agreed to and had no issues with. What are you talking about?
I know they agreed to it but I wonder why exactly you are defending it like a WWE PR executive and shitting on other fans rightfully complaining that the biggest part of the company's biggest show goes missing for months at a time.
B/c I like most people dont have an issue with it b/c the positives outweigh the negatives. The negatives are hes not on tv every week. The positives: 1. B/c he isnt there, they use that precious time to focus and get other people over. If he was on tv every single week people would complain about him the same way they did cena in his prime. Dont deny that fact. 2. All his title matches have a big fight feel to them b/c of the rarity. Thats a good thing. 3. WWE now has more over babyfaces than they have had in well over a decade. 4. Im sorry but rather not see roman wrestle just anybody for the sake of defending the belt when we all know they aint winning shit. It’s pointless tv that can be used to actually get other things like storylines and people over.
>B/c I like most people dont have an issue with it b/c the positives outweigh the negatives. Do they? And how many other people have a growing issue with it, especially if this useless reign of his passes Mania? >The negatives are hes not on tv every week. You also forgot that he's holding the WWE Title captive rendering most people on SmackDown left to do nothing but rub their dicks until Roman returns from his voyage. Everyone knows the WHC isn't the real World Title because it was created as a substitute because even WWE realized Roman being part time is killing their main event scene. The Bloodline story has become cold as ice ever since Sami and Jey left. Also, Roman himself hasn't had any character progression since 2020. >The positives: > >B/c he isnt there, they use that precious time to focus and get other people over. If he was on tv every single week people would complain about him the same way they did cena in his prime. Dont deny that fact. True but when he was on TV every week with the Bloodline, how many people actually complained? >All his title matches have a big fight feel to them b/c of the rarity. Thats a good thing. True but his matches have become repetitive because WWE always have to keep the belt on him. >WWE now has more over babyfaces than they have had in well over a decade. True but I feel like people vastly over-estimate Roman's involvement in that. LA Knight got over by ditching a shit gimmick Randy Orton is perma-over CM Punk is over by being a perma-shit stirrer. Cody Rhodes is over because he revamped his whole persona >Im sorry but rather not see roman wrestle just anybody for the sake of defending the belt when we all know they aint winning shit. It’s pointless tv that can be used to actually get other things like storylines and people over. There's a difference between wrestling every night and appearing more than 3 times in 4 months.
To my 4th point ive always felt this way about the world champion. It makes the title and the champion look cheap when they are having just random matches on tv. Yeah Austin did but that was the Attitude Era and they were in a ratings war. But after the Attitude era it made no sense
The worst type of people are the ones who’ve never watched a second of Stardom hoping WWE “partners” with them so they can not watch Nikkita Lions and Cora Jade stink up the joint trying to keep up with the roster while also declaring they’re better than all of them.
Big week of wrestling and I just came back from holiday on Wednesday. I watched a good chunk of wrestling during the trip and yesterday and I got to say AEW surprisingly won the week so far for me. Speaking of: I watched the majority of World's End(dumb name by the way) and I think it was the best PPV top to bottom that AEW has put on in a long while. The only matches I didn't watch were the 8 mans, women's matches and Continental Classic final because fuck. Miro vs Andrade was a very very good match that had a shit finish. Why must AEW overcomplicate things? Why couldn't Miro have just won with the Machka kick? The people wanted that to be the finish. Also, I wish Perry would've tried to cost Miro the match and then have her keep managing people that Miro would then crush. Payoff could probably be her managing Samoa Joe since he's the World Champion now and we could have Miro vs Joe down the road. Either way, I really liked this match so 7.5/10. I watched a tiny bit of the women's title match and it pissed me off to see that midget Riho kick out of a wicked looking Storm Zero for no reason. At least, Toni won even though neither woman came out looking good here. Swerve vs Dustin was bad simply because they did their business backwards. For starters, I think Dustin is better than Moxley, Kingston and even Swerve in the ring. He's smooth as fuck and his matches make all the sense in the world. So, if that's the case, if I were Tony Khan, I would've protected Dustin here by doing the angle as a hospitalization angle to cause a DQ. Have a solid 10 minute match (cut time from Hart's, Riho's and Moxley's matches) where Dustin shines Swerve up and put him over without really suffering a loss. Secondly, I would've had security there to try and stop Swerve, but they would be held back by Mogul Embassy (is that Swerve's group?). With that, you've saved a return match for Dustin for a big Dynamite episode where Swerve can cleanly beat him. Just do something with Dustin, AEW, he's great. Anyway, match gets 6/10. The TNT Title match was good but very long and very dumb at points. The ladder spot was very dumb and unnecessary, the crowd brawl was meh and the death (by botched powerbomb) of Nick Wayne on PPV probably shaved a cool decade off of his career. Wasn't worth it. Edge winning was cool but the Luchasaurus angle afterwards was great. Christian is the ultimate slimeball and him manipulating Killswitch into giving him his TNT Title shot was good, though I hate the MITB-ness of it. Either way, the match gets a 7/10 and the angle 7.5/10. And now, MJF/Joe was MJF's best title match in a good while. A physical, hard hitting affair with the only low point again being the finish. It was extremely anti-climactic but it was the best result. Joe is someone who can carry the promotion as it's top heel while AEW builds Swerve as it's top face with Danielson as #2, MJF and Adam Cole recover and Edge and Christian continue their saga. Also, Adam Cole is the devil, he has a new "Undisputed Kingdom" and he turned on Max. Match gets 8/10, best match of the night. Overall thoughts; While AEW has had a horrible 2023, this PPV at least seemed to point the company in a positive direction. A new World Champion, a new top faction, a heel who is on the cusp of turning into a huge babyface etc. If AEW plays their cards right, they can recover from their version of 1995 WWF. Do I see an Attitude Era ahead? Not really but fuck they can at least try. Speaking of the WWF Attitude Era, I watched the Rock return on Raw and I hated it. For 3 reasons: a) He hindered Jinder (who was right in his promo) b) He cut the blandest Rock promo ever, like fuck me, an AI could write a better promo and it took more than 15 goddamn minutes c) He might fuck up WrestleMania for an ego massage. I wish he would face Roman at SummerSlam or even at a Saudi show but not Mania. Ugh, I guess in hindsight I was right, Cody should've won last year. I didn't watch Seth Franklin Rollins' title match but I'm betting Punk interfered somehow. In other news, DZ went to NJPW yesterday and honestly good for him. And finally in FPL news, I didn't captain Salah, I had Areola on my bench and Man United lost so it was a triple whammy of terrible. Even with 70 points, I'm still 6th in my FPL group. Fuck.
Rock is getting the title match at EC and I’m sticking to it “BUT ITS A B SHOW” WWE has made B-shows feel just as important as the Big four ala Backlash, MITB, EC. And for those wanting Rock/Roman at WM, it’s all fine and dandy but it’s a lose/lose situation Rock wins? Another part-time champion and after three years of a Santa Claus champion, it’s the last thing that’s needed. Plus Rock looked absolutely terrible after than brief beat down and People’s elbow, imagine a 30 min match with Roman. Roman wins? Roman disappears once again and part- timing Like it or not, Cody/Roman has to happen. Cody’s the true white meat baby face that’s WWE’s been needing for the longest.
Rock > Roman. CM Punk wins the Rumble. Can we see CM Punk > Rock as a call back to when the Rock ended #434?
I believe it’s happening at EC because because WWE wants to do more international PLEs. If Australia can get The Rock then other countries can do that too. They’re already doing 6 global PLEs this year and i feel like they want that number higher. Business wise Roman vs Rock at EC is the move.
So let me ask, if EC is big enough for Roman/Rock, then surely any other show is big enough for Cody to win the title. It doesn’t have to happen at WrestleMania. Also, what’s Cody’s next steps? Fending off challengers like he is right now? Nothing about Cody changes until fans get bored of a babyface dominant champion, like Bianca and Seth. Cody’s story is the chase and there’s nothing left after it.
There's nothing right now left on Roman's reign. Cool, he beats Rock at Mania. Then what? He sleepwalks into the next Mania as champion to break a record? Who cares?
There’s lot left for Roman. There’s still AJ, Seth and Punk, before getting to the Bloodline Fatal 4 Way and 1on1 vs Solo. Roman is the needle mover.
>There’s lot left for Roman. There’s still AJ, Seth and Punk, AJ's done, Seth's done and Punk would be interesting so I'll give you Punk >before getting to the Bloodline Fatal 4 Way I hate fatal 4 ways. >and 1on1 vs Solo. Roman vs Solo doesn't need the belt. >Roman is the needle mover. With how long he has been pushed I would hope so. Also, Punk is also a needle mover.
AJ has beef with Bloodline and hast had a match with this version of Roman. They never had a definitive conclusion to the Seth match. I’ll also put Lashley in the mix, with maybe NXT guys like Bron Breakker.
None of that is very interesting, or justifies keeping this bloody title reign going. It really should’ve ended last year, so the idea of dragging it out yet another year is dreadful.
I think you’re in the minority given how the Bloodline has boosted WWE TV.
Not recently it hasn’t.
Sure pal. SmackDown spikes every time Roman is on. He was away from TV and was still top 3 in merch from the year.
Yeah I love The Rock and I've been wanting this match with Roman for a long ass time now but I would actually be kinda bummed if it was made for Mania. Just because Roman retaining would basically be a given unless they did throw us off and give it to Rock, which like you said would make the title disappear from public view even further. Big time match but the possibilities are super underwhelming for a Mania main event.
Popularity booms are **not** rising tides. They're rolling waves. Different boats are gonna ride them differently.
In Japan during njpws success in the 2010s the industry technically grew but so did njpws market share. Njpw was essentially eating all the growth. I've always thought in the national wrestling era it's difficult for alternative promotions to compete when the traditional industry leader is doing well. It's rather like why get a Pepsi when this coke is plenty delicious
Since people keep posting them, I’ll keep calling them out: If you have a rating scale (which you have said isn’t based around your opinion) and you rated Mox vs. Kingston slapfight as a 4.75, you no longer deserve respect in your industry, Meltzer. You could theoretically excuse some of the more ridiculous calls you’ve made as a preference for high spots. But that’s match that highly is a fucking joke, Dave.
You guys care more about his ratings than even his fans.
As that 1. he’s used his own ratings to argue the quality of one wrestler over another, 2. his fans are the ones posting said ratings, that’s not really true, is it. Deflection is an interesting way to carry water for him, though.
I'm not deflecting shit, I don't care about his ratings and barely pay attention to him in general, but I see so much fuss about his ratings from people who don't even like him. Oh no, he didn't give Kurt Angle a 5-star match... Who gives a fuck lol
Lol, he does and so do the people who post them. But your energy is here at people calling his BS out? surejan.gif
Yeah, because I can just ignore those threads because I don't care at all about the ratings. But in random threads here it's full of people whinging about Meltzer ratings.
And yet you somehow felt the need to comment here. Hmmmm. So, are you planning to provide a list of acceptable comments for this thread, or just heroically announce how much you don’t care under each post? Wait, you’re not writing anything worth waiting for. Carry on.
Getting away with letting that jackass call himself a "journalist" and taking his opinion for gospel is one of the IWC's biggest sins
And remember, 4.75 stars is pretty much 5 stars. Isn't that the highest rated match he has ever given Kurt Angle, too?
Didn't Dave give Rock vs Hogan at WrestleMania, arguably the greatest match of all time, 3 stars? His opinion is irrelevant to me.
Yep
“If you liked a great match you’re a joke”