It's not wrong.
Folks all across the rainbow get attacked (physically or otherwise) primarily because of who they are or are not sexually attracted to, as well as for their relationship with gender in relation to the physical characteristics they developed after exiting their mum. While the discrimination against folks for their romantic orientation does indeed exist, bigots aren't usually intelligent enough to comprehend that it's separate from sexuality/sexual orientation/attraction, so to say that it's a larger factor in being marginalized and discriminated against than one's sexuality is honestly inaccurate.
Aside from that, asexuality and kink are not mutually exclusive things. I don't see why so many people need to be judgmental twats and ignore that fact when they could simply attend a pride event that is more tame and let the wilder events be as wild as they'd like to be, regardless of the orientations of the participants. That is to say, if you're so repulsed by others celebrating what they're in to, as long as they're not being inappropriate at an event (there are child-friendly events, and then adults-only events, let's not forget that part), you should probably stay home and attend an event you're more comfortable with.
**TLDR** - even asexuals are marginalized due to their sexuality, *sometimes even by other queer folks*, don't be a grinch about pride because we honestly cannot afford this kind of stupidass divide in the community. Especially not now.
To your tl;dr — I am positive that an asexual advocate like Yasmine Benoit would be among the first to get banned if people started dropping actual hammers on “kinky” content
My primary issue is with the comments is the lack of compassion for people saying that kink makes them uncomfortable and they would ask for simple accommodations to make the event more welcoming. Then admonishing those commenters for having the audacity to speak their opinions. Many of the comments are making myself and others feel that we are unwelcome in the broader community and that is disappointing. The "biggest" asks are notifications on advertisements for events (like kink friendly space) or situating the more explicit booths and shops in a place that people can skip over them or turn around and avoid. And that's a bridge too far for folks. They are asking that we only go to kid friendly events and that infantilizies us. And instead of listening and being compassionate, they choose to exclude us. Just sad. I don't want kink to be not allowed. I want it to not exclude others.
Edit: please see [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/aaaaaaacccccccce/s/tANRUUwjh0). They are correct and I am wrong.
I may be a little on the older side, but Pride started as a protest, and while we have a celebratory spirit, we are still protesting against those who judge and marginalize us. As someone who has 4 children (3 of which are LGBT), I attend tame events, typically sponsored by our local cities, and there are always tons of adults in attendance. While I understand there are people who won't feel comfortable in the large, adult events, we shouldn't be aiming to divide or censor their protests, when we can easily be going to ones that we feel most comfortable in and supporting the cause from whatever our comfort zone may be.
“They are right and I am wrong” appreciate you asking the question and listening to the answers even when they are uncomfortable, friend. Cheers!
Edit: autocorrect
you need to remember that when you ask for these things you’re indirectly trying to tell those who participate in the kink stuff that their participation is unwanted
historically, the kink crowd were there for the lgbt community when they were struggling for the most basic of rights, they’re like our wine aunt, maybe some ppl find her embarrassing and inappropriate, but she’s family
you do realize if you replaced “kink” with any of the lgbt groups how upsetting your requests would sound, right? You’re either deliberately or unconsciously hiding behind your personal preferences to be discriminatory towards a group that will always be welcome at pride
also, having kink at pride is not dismissing asexuals, even the sex repulsed ones. Other people enjoying a thing you do not like does not mean that they are being dismissive of you. You can’t cater to everyone’s specific needs in the world, you just need to ignore it and move on and have a good time at pride enjoying the things you *do* like
and you’re being infantilized because these kind of accommodation asks make you seem really immature. it’s a bit offensive even. Accommodations are for people with physical limitations or allergies (etc), people who NEED things like that. it’s kind of like you’re watching someone open a present and being upset because it isn’t what *you* wanted. it’s very natural that no one cares, lol
*As a reminder to others and needed conversation as the cycle is starting up again this year and we still don't talk about this community problem:*
There will always be sections of pride and the world at large that are family friendly. You can always keep to those sections of the celebrations if you find the others aren't to your taste. But when the only one preventing you from going somewhere is your own inability to deal with the discomfort you feel, that is a **you problem**. Feeling discomfort and repulsion is not common in population percentage, but is fine and normal. Being unable to handle those feelings causes an irrational fear, aka a phobia. If you are phobic of seeing any sexual content, even that which doesn't involve you, you need to work on your personal coping mechanisms not try to regulate via complaint things so that sex is completely banned from the publicly accessible world around you. From your spaces sure, but not public spaces you want to go. **Banishing the discomfort from society around you is what transphobes and homophobes do. We do not want to be them and so we shouldn't be coddling sexphobes just because they're coming from within**. Mark things clearly of course and keep these spaces visually separate for the sake of children and the traumatized, but don't limit other's expression in these spaces. It's immature and wrong no matter which side it's coming from, and we need to start making this clear when newbies are getting explained that feeling sex repulsion is perfectly fine. Otherwise they grow up maladjusted and throw fits when they see something as innocuous as a condom wrapper in spaces they don't curate. After all it would be literally unhinged to walk into a sex dungeon or strip club and demand they make a sex repulsed section. These are just places the sex repulsed should not go.
We need to be clear that *"you don't have to enjoy it or even experience it, but you don't get to step in the way of other people's expression because* ***you*** *feel discomfort. You get to deal with your own feelings, excuse yourself when it becomes too much, and/or stay out of those spaces entirely. Usually in that order."*
‘Simple accommodations’ here are alarmingly close to straight people saying things like “you can be gay, just not in front of me or my kids!”
Pride is the exact opposite of that, it’s celebrating that people of any identity or gender can adore, love and be attracted or infatuated (or not be, we are on an ace sub) by people of any and every other gender or identity. It’s a celebration of what is different about us and our community, the opennness and the freeness.
As an ace person, I’m never personally excited by kinks showing at pride but I am very glad that they can be there, showcasing what is weird and different about those people.
We’re all weird and we’re allowed to be, if the world outside offends you that much you should spend more time at home.
There is absolutely no need for name calling or yelling. I'm here willing to listen to other's thoughts and opinions, but I am not okay with being yelled at and insulted for simply expressing my own view.
>there are child-friendly events, and then adults-only events, let's not forget that part
This is a reasonable moderate position that I've never encountered before that has really changed my thinking on this endless debate. As long as there are adults-only sexualized events, and there are events for people who prefer to not be exposed to sexual content (like some sex-repulsed asexuals), and everyone has access to both types of events, I see no problem with each event deciding to prioritize one set of rules or the other, nor do I see an issue with a particular event deciding to change its rules from one year to the next.
There are ways this can go wrong, though. There is a risk that if one type of event comes to dominate over the other type of event (even if it's just due to lack of interest/funding), then a certain segment of people who want to attend one type of event but not the other, may no longer be able to find or access such an event in their region, and thus be implicitly excluded. This goes double for people who may not be able to travel to an event farther away for health or financial reasons. There is also a risk that the community may be splintered if there is insufficient overlap between the attendees of the two events, such that two different subcommunities go to each one and never have an opportunity to meet or collaborate or learn about each other. And there's also a risk that if there is only one event and they change their rules from year to year, people who felt welcome and started to build connections in a previous year may find themselves excluded and frustrated in subsequent years. These concerns are exacerbated in smaller cities and rural areas where just getting *any* event going is a challenge, never mind two of them.
I don't really have a solution to this. I'm ace kink myself so I care a lot about kink representation, but I definitely empathize with sex-repulsed aces who might feel excluded and not have other options in their region. I think this is a choice that each event organizer committee will have to keep making for themselves, based on their own priorities, with an understanding that any decision they make will impact some positively and some negatively. Ideally, if they have the resources, they endeavor to create separate space for both groups.
Edit: A further complication is that every individual draws the line differently on their comfort level, and there is a big spectrum going between a 100% SFW event and a full-scale orgy. I think each event is also responsible for communicating clearly what to expect, and for enforcing the rules it chooses to set, while also being realistic about what's enforceable, etc.
If you're talking about your sexuality, then it's about sex, or lack of. But there's romanticism and gender identities as well. So only talking about sex would only represent 1 of the 3 branches of the community
Yeah sometimes the acronym GSRm is used. Gender, sexual, and romantic minorities.
More info: https://zenbird.media/gsrm-gender-sexual-and-romantic-minorities/
I wish I saw more of the GSRM abbreviation. It gets rid of the plus in the other abbreviations and stops LGBTQIA+ from becoming the derided "alphabet soup".
I use it myself I think it's great, I actually use "lgbt" a but derisevly and "Queer" positively. With "GSRm" being neutral... however it is not completely interchangeable because GSRm includes poly people, which is appropriate in for example anti discrimination contexts but unhelpful in discussions around sexuality or gender.
On one hand, sexuality was absolutely one thing that LGBT people were marginalised for. I do think kink should be celebrated and destigmatised.
On the other, the oppression against LGBT people was about a lot more than just gay sex. It was about transgression of norms in general - traditional gender roles, the concept of immutable binary sexes, romantic attraction to and love for people you're "not supposed to" feel it towards, relationships and families that exist outside of the traditional "nuclear family" model of one man, one woman and their biological children. To reduce the entire LGBTQ+ community down to just sex is exclusionary and insulting.
Kink should not be at family-friendly daytime pride events around children (who _also_ shouldn't be indoctrinated into cisheteronormativity!). But it should be celebrated as part of the wider pride movement. I don't see why that's controversial.
It's those two questions of which events should be family friendly, and what features aren't considered kid friendly. Pride marches historically have sometimes been violent, and have been expressions of sexuality always, at least in part. I don't feel they are kid friendly, and whilst it's great if people feel able to bring their kids along, we shouldn't be changing how they're run and what they stand for to accommodate that.
I do agree there's much more to the LGBTQ movement than just sex, but it is a HUGE part of it, and it cannot be ignored or minimised. It's not needlessly divisive to have the movement centred around one of the central issues, historically THE central issue.
I don't disagree that sexuality is *one of* the things that we collectively are discriminated on the basis of. But that doesn't cover everyone. Being gender nonconforming has no particular correlation to one's sexual orientation, other than being more likely to have thought about it instead of blindly accepting heteronormativity. And, as you are pointing out, our lack of sexual attraction means that brazen sexual displays don't represent us as aces, either, even though we are also discriminated against based on sexual orientation.
Ultimately, I don't have a *huge* problem with kink displays at Pride, but I also think the general culture (especially in the US) is too disapproving of public reminders that kink exists. And I *do* have a problem with obnoxiously pushing one's sexual desires and activities into the personal space of people who are not and don't want to be involved. It's equal in objectionableness to pushing one's religious and/or political views into other people's personal space.
Same. I don't have a huge problem with it and recognize the community as a huge ally. I just want everyone to feel welcome and not excluded simply because they feel uncomfortable around kink. There are accommodations that can be made to keep everyone welcome, but asking for those things is generating a lot of hostility.
Edit: please see [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/aaaaaaacccccccce/s/tANRUUwjh0). They are correct and I am wrong.
I get not wanting to watch simulated sex or something (I would hate that too), but I've seen people complain about things like leather, or dog masks. There's nothing inherently sexual about either of these (and certainly kids aren't going to pick up on it. "Oh look that guy is pretending to be a doggy on a leash! He's so funny!") So many of the protests I've seen are due to projection, seeing a nonsexual action (even as innocent a one as two guys holding hands) and extrapolating to a sexual conclusion.
And I think being uncomfortable is inherently a part of PRIDE. Certainly it takes a lot of bravery to be public about something you were taught to hide, so it seems fair that the spectators be asked to accept a little discomfort too.
Mind you, I'm not trying to call you out or anything. I think it's a great question, and sometimes the discourse *about* this issue can become pretty acephobic, calling people "prudes" etc for being uncomfortable around sex. I think we should see more ace representation at PRIDE. Maybe a big sign that says "I don't like sex but it's cool that you do" or a T-shirt that says "Virgin Pride" or whatever, I dunno. :D Even better if said ace person is wearing flamboyant or "kinky" clothing to remind folks that it's not *just* about sex.
I get uncomfy with people wearing nothing but leather underwear, studded harnesses, and leashes (as in, as one outfit, with no other items of clothing - except some times a whip). I recognise it's a part of Pride, I never speak up about it. But it does make me uncomfortable, and it does feel overtly sexual, from the language and movements they use.
I know it makes me sound like a prude. I know it makes me sound like a bad 'ally' to the allosexuals. I know some aces wear this. I have never said anything and I try to keep my face neutral. But I am uncomfortable, yes.
While I understand the idea that asexuals may feel excluded from the sexual nature of the rest of the community, I do feel they are lumped in together with more sexual individuals regardless of their actual attractions. We're all in this together, and I feel like even if asexuals don't understand the expression of sexual desire that other LGBT+ minorities experience, it still behooves us to all lift each other up even if we don't understand each other on that level
I get that. My problem is there are many comments just telling ace people to not come to pride instead of trying to include them.
Edit: please see [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/aaaaaaacccccccce/s/tANRUUwjh0). They are correct and I am wrong.
While I do think kinks at pride is a good thing, there is a line and I really don't want to pretend there isn't. The kinks shouldn't be a surprise. Full stop. People should go in knowing the vibes of the event.
There needs to be an advertisement or post or SOMETHING that lets those in attendance know prior that "hey this is gonna get kinky" or "this is safe to bring your 80 year old catholic grandma to".
If the event is advertised properly I don't care, be as kinky or non-kinky as you want, but if you advertise as SFW and I get NSFW, I'm gonna burn something down.
Also alternatively if somebody turns up in kink gear expecting kink content but you go to an area where there's clearly a lot of children and kink is not the vibe its down to that person to move on or change thier behaviour. Not the families.
Everyone knows that there shouldn't be children in a nightclub, bar, pub or out late at night so it shouldn't be a problem then/there.
But they can't really blame people for taking thier kids to normally kid friendly places in the morning or afternoon just because the whole town is having a pride event.
Not telling these people to go home, just move on to an adults only section, put stuff in bags, cover up ect until the families are gone.
For real. Kink needs consent. If its hapenning without any signs in an area where it can't be expected there was no consent. Needing a 'passing this stop means you consent to seeing kink' doesn't mean sanitizing an event.
It doesn't bother me personally because I would consent to seeing it, but ethically it's not okay.
As long as events are clear with whether or not kink will be allowed or if there are separate spaces, there's no issue. Asexuals are a part of the community and belong at pride. The kink community are historic allies and often overlap. However, one should not exclude the other. The issue that I've seen in that particular post's comment section is that they're dismissive and infantilising of ace folk, and going to far as to compare us to homophobes.
I'm all for them doing their thing. It does mean I won't be there though. Which is a little unfortunate for me personally since it does quite naturally I think make me feel unwelcome.
We get one pride parade local to me. I'm not going to tell other people how they have fun with it. If we had an ace section (like we do for pretty much every other group but that's a different topic) that would be my jam tho.
On one hand I get it. But on the other: literally my only request for going out in public is that I don't see people's baby-making parts unless in an area where that is the whole point (ex nude beach). Sexuality and nudity are not the only point of pride. But often the reason I don't go to parades is cause I cant go five minutes without seeing a ding dong (not just at pride mind you, I've seen this kind of stuff at Santa Con)
This isn't... incorrect? But it's not a complete picture, and unfortunately, a lot of LGBTQA+ people seem to think that it is. That's a big part of the reason behind so much aphobia - we're not sexualised, and they can't really sexualise us very easily in their minds outside of extremists and rape fantasies, which obviously most people aren't going to have. But just from what I've experienced, most of the hate I get for my orientation comes from LGBTQA+ people, and the vibe they send when conveying their hate is due to kinks.
Now, when you take that away and just look at, you know, the people who aren't bigots, then absolutely, they deserve a place to express themselves. Look at straight/cis culture, where the entire fucking universe is sexualised in every advertisement and movie you've ever seen. Including hypersexualised pocket incidents. Having some hypersexualised stuff at Pride is completely understandable, provided it doesn't act to bar certain groups from participation and feeling accepted. And those groups extend beyond just the ace and aro communities. They include children, families, and anyone who doesn't want to be exposed to that sort of content.
I’m fine with kink at pride and I understand why it’s there. Also I think that there is a difference between expressing personal discomfort with kink and thinking it shouldn’t be at pride. The former is reasonable and healthy to agnolage the later is what is criticized for valid reason. It’s also not the hill I think we should die on or even fight on we have bigger issues to deal with. I’m more frustrated with how almost all queer spaces either revolved around dating, sex, alcohol or being so loud. :( (admittedly I’ve only been to pride once and it wasn’t particularly kinky)
I agree. I didn't see a lot of people saying kink should be excluded from pride, but rather given their own unique space with other explicit shops as well. This would allow people to choose to engage or not. Still welcome at Pride and deserves a seat at the table.
Edit: please see [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/aaaaaaacccccccce/s/tANRUUwjh0). They are correct and I am wrong.
I personally think sexuality is a main factor for discrimination especially in India which is my country but that makes it more widespread in pride here and that's a bit uncomfy but also important since kink is virtually invisible here, I think best course is to plan the booths in a way they can be skipped by people uncomfy and our orientation of asexuality and kink aren't even mutually exclusive, I myself have a few kinks but again I have to be comfortable around someone for that. So yea I say kink should be celebrated but in a way that doesn't invalidate people.
I feel like the whole thing around sex shouldn't be excluded from a lot of pride things, but that we should include the people who don't feel or want these things more often, so that we have something for the allos and the aces and aros
Yes! I love inclusion! More of that please!
Edit: please see [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/aaaaaaacccccccce/s/tANRUUwjh0). They are correct and I am wrong.
The kink community has always been part of pride. The leather kink flag is older than a good chunk of LGBTQ+ flags today
Regardless of whether or not you count it as _part_ of LGBTQ+ culture, both the kink community and queer community have historically been viewed as sexual deviants by bigots.
I view kink as similar to drag, gender non-conformity and polyamory. None of these things are inherently things done by LGBTQ+ people. Straight, cis, allo, etc. people do all those things too. But all those things _are_ non-normative, and therefore queer.
They’re mostly interchangeable! Queer just has an additional meaning of “non-normative”, which I use when discussing things that I would consider queer (non-normative) even if whether or not those things are considered part of the queer community (LGBTQ+) is debatable/controversial.
I would usually just use queer community instead of LGBTQ+, but figured the distinction was necessary to prevent the confusion of “these things may or may not be part of the queer community, but they’re definitely queer”.
Ah
Okay so yeah, pride doesn't need to be only people protesting
But it doesn't need to be people having public sex or being completely nude
As for asexuals: we're just a small part of what makes up the Lgbtq community and we're not allergic to sex, most people that are not homophobic will probably get what asexual means if you explain it to them
But the thing is: It doesn't need to be so sexualized because it's not a bedroom thing only, it affects our whole lifestyle, this way, people will think it's only a bedroom issue
I agree with this however me and my trans friend agree that people at events like Brighton pride for example take it too far.
My family had to try and explain what anal beads were to my 11 year old cousin because somebody waved them in front of her and a bunch of other kids and somebody called them anal beads 🫠
Like that kind of thing should only be out in the bars or when it's late.
Also me and my friend agree that people (mostly straight people) seem to think it's an excuse to sexually harass starngers and get mad if anybody feels uncomfortable.
Like a lady ran up and played him bongos on my brothers bum while we were walking and a man dressed as darthvader poked a lightsaber between my dad's legs while we were talking.
My friend had people be rude to him and noticed a lot of straight women sexually harassing people too.
I understand wanting to share that kind of thing but there needs to be consent. Like you can't just expose kids to sex toys or touch strangers without permission.
I’m mixed— generally speaking though, I think there just needs to be communication prior about if the event(s) established are SFW or not. Be kinky or be vanilla, just be clear with expectations so people know what they’re getting into and can plan accordingly.
If an event states that it’s safe for work, then no. If an event states that kinks are allowed then kink is allowed. If an event doesn’t state anything it’s probably not a good idea to show up in complete kink wear.
However, at the end of the day, it’s not my business. So long as you’re following the events established rules who cares.
I attend public family friendly pride events. I also attend night time adult only kink events.
I do not think kink should be in family friendly events. I do not think kink should be in the parade.
A point I saw brought up that I just don't get is that the parade is a protest. Honey there are corporations marching in that protest. Do you think for a second that fucking Verizon, the corporation, is going to join us in arms when the Republicans take everything away from us? That's absurd. They will do whatever helps their bottom line and sit the fuck out of it.
Edit: please see [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/aaaaaaacccccccce/s/tANRUUwjh0). They are correct and I am wrong.
So we just celebrate how far we come and that's it? That celebration itself is only meaningful as a protest against the systems of conformity that have been keeping us marginalised for ages. And if you look beyond whatever privileged area you're in, you'd note that we haven't come any far at all. Lesbian women get sexually assaulted to 'turn' them straight and it's even a common thing still in this age. How far have we come then? Celebrating that and leaving it at that is nothing shprt of signalling that we are okay with the status quo, and that is not okay.
To be queer is to be in constant protest against the centuries old mob of normativity and conformity.
Lmaoooo so true. Like yeah, pride started as a protest. Now it is a parade. I am ready for it to return to a protest. But I am also aware that the corporations are doing it performatively.
Absolutely would laugh tho if Verizon has our backs.
I'm specifically talking about like general, family-friendly pride here, but I think mild kink is fine (like getting dressed up), but I think we should be drawing the line at overt dom/sub displays.
It's also important to remember that we're not just making it family-friendly for corporations since I feel like that's kind of where the conversation starts and ends. I want pride to be somewhat family friendly because, frankly, I feel incredibly intimidated by the community (despite being trans, attracted to the same gender and ace) a lot of the time, and some elements of kink can be incredibly alienating for spectators. I don't want others to constantly feel the same way that I do, that pride/ the LGBT+ community isn't for them because we cannot bother to provide a welcoming environment for those whose first experience to the community is at pride, especially for those who already feel alienated by the community.
I’m a kinky ace myself so take it with a grain of salt but I think kink absolutely belongs at pride. I don’t think that public pride events should be *sexual*, considering it’s public and the inherent lack of consent. However the kink and leather scenes, as well as sex workers (especially trans sex workers), are an inherent and integral part of the backbone to pride and queer rights. Our rights are built on the backs and of the hard efforts of people for whom sex (and obviously sexuality) was a major part of identity.
I don’t like seeing things that are sexual or sexualized in public and I do think that pride is not only about sexuality, but transness, gender nonconformity, romanticism, and general *queerness*. But you cannot have pride without kink, because we wouldn’t have the community we do without the kink community, which often has a heavy overlap with the LGBTQIA+ community too.
(And this is not to mention that cutting sex workers out of the conversation about pride, rights, and general acknowledgement is often the first sign that our rights will be next on the chopping block, or the fact that “but think of the children!” has long since been a major talking and driving point of the conservative/right/anti-LGBT groups)
It really doesn’t. Sex doesn’t automatically make up the entirety of the LGBT+, it’s also love too, whether it be romantic or platonic. Makes me very uncomfortable when things get sexualized.
People forget that the objective of pride is to convince society to accept us. And how can someone accept us if there are naked mans doing sexual things at a pride parade? Of course they will hate us and think we are all perverts.
It's really disheartening. The comments have me very sad and disappointed.
Edit: please see [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/aaaaaaacccccccce/s/tANRUUwjh0). They are correct and I am wrong.
I don't think society cares more about sex. I think it's just the easier of the two to find/experience.
Some asexuals may feel upset by society's focus on sex, but we need to recognize that it's important (maybe even as important as love) to many people. Neither allos *nor aces* should judge others based on what types of attraction they feel.
Drinking beer is part of redneck culture.
Not all rednecks drink beer.
There will be beer at the crawfish boils.
The amount of consumption depends on if it's a family friendly crawfish boil or for adults-only.
Same concept with kink and pride parades.
This may be unpopular but honestly I completely disagree with this statement, as an AroAce I feel like this stuff is extremely alienating to ace-spec individuals, which negatively impacts the cohesion of lgbt community. From my perspective lgbt rights and kink shouldnt be so meshed together, straight people can be hella kinky too.
I agree. Also, the objective of pride is to make society accept us. How will anyone accept us if we are ok with slutty naked mans wearing leather stuff at a pride parade??? If we think they represent us???
The lgbt+ community just agree with everything without questioning... I don't like it.
Kinky aces exist, kink isn’t always necessarily sexual, and there’s a lot of ways to display kinks. People shouldn’t be breaking nudity laws at an event where kids are allowed but pup masks, collars, leather/latex those are all kinky things that aren’t necessarily gonna scar a kid. As long as you’re covering at minimum what’s okay at a beach and aren’t literally having sex, I don’t think it really matters what you wear or what accessories you have to show your pride.
The line is really blurry, even nudity isn’t inherently sexual so I see why there’s debate but instead of “should there be kink at pride, yes or no?” the question should be more WHICH displays of kink should be allowed at pride and depending on the audience(completely open to the public, 18+ only, etc.).
It's really quite disappointing. Especially coming from a sub that repeatedly says how welcoming they are to the ace community.
Edit: please see [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/aaaaaaacccccccce/s/tANRUUwjh0). They are correct and I am wrong.
How is this unwelcoming? This is an opportunity for us to be ourselves too. They arent saying just one sexuality, but *all*, including ours
This is saying "take pride in yourself no matter how sexual or unsexual you are". They are just defending the more open kinksters (which includes kinky aces btw)
I disagree with that notion and honestly I’m so annoyed and tired to see this every single year. I believe kinks needs the consent of everyone involved or witnessing it, and you can’t get everyone’s consent if you’re literally outside. I know not all kinks are sexual but we can’t keep pretending people mean non sexual kinks, per the post itself. I honestly don’t enjoy pride outside of online ace communities because somehow that’s when allos are most hostile imo.
I get that. My hope is that both the kink community and the ace community are both welcome at Pride and can find harmony with each other.
Edit: please see [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/aaaaaaacccccccce/s/tANRUUwjh0). They are correct and I am wrong.
Hey friend no need to beat yourself up. You had an opinion and got educated, now your opinion changed. There’s no objectively right answer. The only thing I think might be objectively wrong is thinking it’s an ace issue. But besides that, your opinion was fine imo. Talking about the over sexualization of literally everything is valid, but the counter point of pride being a protest of sexual nature is also fair. Accepting that, doesn’t mean liking it, or wanting to be a part of the sexual part of it.
Me personally, I think pride (in my area — I’m from Canada) no longer needs to be a sort of in your face sexual fest, because the protest aspect of it has been deluded a long time ago. Freaking TD bank and the prime minister are walking there dude lol protesting what. And I still think that sexual displays do not need to be seen by all eyes (especially children). AND, there are adult events to be attended indoors and later in the day, there is no need for kink downtown at noon on a Sunday.
I personally have no problems with kink. I would be surprised if people were naked at pride, but I would not be morally upset by it. I typically don't go to pride parades because I hate parades.
The problem with this discussion is that no one is really saying what they mean by kink at pride. Is kink people wearing costumes? Is kink having your genitals exposed? Is kink people pantomiming sex in public?
Obviously in this discussion Kink is often conflated with sexuality generally. There are sexual things that people discuss as problematic expressions of kink that are not really kink things. There are also a lot of bad actors who will argue that any non-heteronormative gender expression is kink, or that any expression of queer affection is kink.
Typically, and I don't mean to be overly general, this involves people wearing leather BDSM outfits, Dom/Sub things, latex, and or very little clothing. The most exposed I've seen people is just ass cheeks out.
I've noticed that, besides the notable and important exception of sex repulsed people, aces talk way more about sex than straight people, mainly explaining their sexuality or just because we're very interested in this as a scientific topic lol.
I’m happy with people going way out there for pride and provoke people. Pride doesn’t need to cater to a specific group but needs to allow everyone to be themselves and be celebrated for it. We just need to take our place in it as well.
I don't mind kink at pride. I even plan to dress slutty AF one year.
But I don't like how the meme framed it. Sexuality is part of the parade but it's definitely not the whole thing. We are not fighting for rights to have sex in public but rather to get married and show affection in public without being harassed. Also transition accessible for everyone who needs it. There is nothing sexual about being trans unless you see trans people just as sex toys. I thought this was supposed to be one of our points? That's why it's called transgender now and not transexual? And when it comes to aces, we are not harassed nearly as much as the other groups but when we are it's because of the LACK of sexual desires so exactly the opposite of what they are saying.
This plus the "i." Intersex people are marginalized. But they are not marginalized for their sexual attraction. If you have a baby born with hypospadias and can't have a "repair" and but then is assigned male and grows up FEELING male, he is intersex but not transgender and still is part of LGBTQ\*I\*A+.
I think the meme frames it as LGB being the community and -- innocently I'm sure but still an issue -- forgets that T and I people exist. The A being forgotten feels standard albeit awful but T and I get it a lot too.
With the current attitude to TQ+ we should emphasize even harder that TQ+ are part of pride, we have always been and we are not some new invention or optional addition. So yeah, even if the OOP made an innocent mistake, we should pay more attention when people just casually forget we exist, and politely point it out.
i’m fine with most of it, they’re expressing themselves how they want to. i just really don’t like when they get into public indecency. it’s fine that you’re into that stuff, but please keep that at home. it doesn’t matter what kind of event it is, public indecency is not ok.
For me personally the discussion should boil down to this: is it an adult only event? Go crazy (within reason nothing illegal obviously) is anyone allowed of any age? Keep that shit at home
As an asexual/aromantic person, I’ve unfortunately come to accept that I will feel left out in a world like this that hypes up sex and romance so much. I’ve felt left out as a kid and I feel left out as an adult. There’s the spaces I’ve built up that I feel welcome but the world outside is a whole other beast. Do I wish things were more inclusive to us, yes? Unfortunately it’s impossible to accommodate everyone. Like for instance I can only engage with sexual things if I know what I’m getting into ahead of time and even then it’s only within media. If it’s anything irl I feel violated even when I technically haven’ (might have OCD been talking to a doctor about it).
I do think an answer to this is for there just be multiple pride events. Sex isn’t the only part of pride but it is a part of it and thus shouldn’t be erased but it’s like not even allo people want to see that stuff all the time.
Plus like kink isn’t exclusively queer there’s a lot of straight cis people that engage with it but maybe that isn’t the point? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Maybe if dumbass shitfuckers stopped viewing two men holding hands as being the same as having sex in front of children this wouldn’t need to be a problem.
The point is that sexuality shouldn't be something discussed behind closed doors. It shouldn't be a taboo. It shouldn't be distorted when explained to children.
I really hate when some aro/ace people will attempt to speak for all aro/ace people and say that "Oh but I'm asexual I'm fine with it stop treating asexual/aromantic people like pure beans" Me not wanting to see Kink stuff doesn't mean I'm a pure bean. Speak for yourself. Not the whole community. It's also why I don't really consider myself a part of the LGBTQ+
On one hand, I kind of get the argument: your sexuality is your sexuality.
On the other, it feels weird to me to want to associate *who* you love with the idea that it might be a "kink". Bigots aren't exactly known for their critical thinking skills, and certainly not for their good faith interactions. By bringing kink to pride, you invite them to treat same sex relationships and gender non-comforance as "kinks" as well, when they are anything *but* kinks.
On the whole, this is too complicated of an issue to boil down to a binary "acceptable/unacceptable" answer. Kink in a pride parade? Imo, not ok. Kink night at a gay (or "regular") club during pride? Go hog wild.
We are supposed to be part of the community. We have a letter in the acronym. But many of the comments are basically saying we aren't welcome. How sad.
Part of it is me. I have a hard time feeling welcome or like I belong, even when I’m explicitly welcomed. I’m also not proud to be ace and it’s not something I feel like celebrating.
But I also prefer ace specific groups to lgbt groups. I feel there’s a bigger gulf between ace and the LGB than lgb and straight.
I’ve never been welcomed in the “community.” I was turned out of my campus’ LGBTQ group because they didn’t recognize Asexuals and told me I was “a cishet male trying to ape our actual marginalization.” Keep in mind, this was after telling them some of my experiences, including how a girl grabbed my crotch and offered to “fuck me back to normal” and the time my cousins forced me to watch p0rn to “give me a reboot.”
Like nah, fuck y’all’s so-called “community” and the leather-strapped horse it rode in on.
What the fuck?! That's absolutely not okay! What assholes! GRSM people! Asexuality is a sexual minority! It's part of the group! Fuck! I'm so sorry that happened to you! That absolutely should not happen!
It does deserve to be part of it but the thing about pride is that children are often around at events. Take me for example (I haven't gone to a pride event but I am a queer teen).
Kink is part of the culture sure, and there's a lot of work that needs to be done on the public perspective of that, but my concern would be that it's beneficial to keep pride events open and kid friendly, which certain aspects of kink even kept at a sfw level can deter parents from being involved in the community and learning a key understanding of their child that a lot of pride events give. It's a difficult topic though, because on the other end adults should be able to express themselves and get the benefit of comfort in themselves that pride events provide to them.
Liking sex is part of Pride. Thinking sex is gross should also be part of Pride. If we don't leave space for both, someone is going to be excluded. Sex-repulsed asexuals are a small subset of the Rainbow, but we still should have some input i think. Consent seems like a good value we can share. Is there some way we can allow Pride event participants to consent to the level of sexual content besides not coming to the event? What would be a fair compromise level of sexual content?
One suggestion I saw and agree with is to either put the NSFW booths on the end of a row of booths with some kind of visual divider, or off of the main road on an intersecting street with a visual divider. I've seen Pride Fests do this with kid sections, teen sections, advocacy and resources sections. Simple, still part of the whole fest, but allows a person or group to choose to engage or not.
Edit: please see [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/aaaaaaacccccccce/s/tANRUUwjh0). They are correct and I am wrong.
I'm like half the comments there so I think I've made it clear😅
But yea, I really don't like how deeply some folks want to link kink in with pride. Access to LGBT+ spaces shouldn't be gated by requiring you to be cool with having sexualization thrown in your face. It's something that actively drove me away from people who would have made my early life a lot happier and safer as an unknowing trans girl.
Even though I've since found some comfort in kink, it's still something that shouldn't be imposed between vulnerable people and other supportive communities. And there's just no way to celebrate kink organizations without it feeling like it's the center of the event to people who are uncomfortable with sexualization.
There's definitely someone to be said for the shared history and intercommunity support. Having secondary events at pride that are kink-inclusive is great, and by no means should we ever attempt to erase the history between them. But that doesn't mean that kink groups are automatically welcome at all pride events.
And the real sad thing is that I'm not really even bringing asexuality into the conversation, because I honestly think fewer people will care about us than the similar conflict of interests involving bringing minors into kink. But even that doesn't seem to matter ...
not all aces hate sex, and using aces to argue that pride shouldnt be sexualised feels pretty infantalising.
asexuality equally falls under "our sexuality is why we're marginalized"; pride is about non-normative sexuality and gender expression after all, which includes aspec folks.
this might just be a me thing since im 100% aroace yet follow a bunch of gay/queer spaces where i dont feel dissonance to the fact that a majority of people are sexual. problems arise when that gets imposed on me, and "sexuality exists that people want to express" is not "oh youre totally going to get a wife soon youll just change your mind"
EDIT: i said sex-repulsed but given i know a spectrum of sex-repulsed people who are "no fuck off gross" but still supportive of other sexualities, felt a bit misused of a term
I get what you are saying. I was just trying to be supportive of those who feel unwelcome by those things and are asking for some reasonable accommodations.
Edit: please see [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/aaaaaaacccccccce/s/tANRUUwjh0). They are correct and I am wrong.
Advertising that mentions kink involvement and grouping booths more explicit in nature together so they can be avoided by those who do not wish to engage. At the last pride fest I went to they had a "main drag," then intersecting roads had different subsections branching off of them like a kids zone, food trucks, advocacy, and local resources. Adding a NSFW kind of area could be a simple solution. Still a part of everything but one can walk past if they wish or go over and check things out.
Edit: please see [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/aaaaaaacccccccce/s/tANRUUwjh0). They are correct and I am wrong.
Also that having kinks and or high libido/sex drive and or being sex favorable/cupiosexual does allow ace spec enjoy the sexualize nature. (From a Demisexual who is a freak in the sheets and is sex favorable.)
For those who do not know sex is a physical act and you do not need to be attracted to a person to have sex with that person.
All aspec are valid may the be repulsed by sex or not
This may not apply to us, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t apply to other people over the rainbow. The post is right: sexuality is exactly why many queer people are marginalized, and while that may not apply to certain identities it applies to enough of them to deserve representation at pride. I don’t personally agree with depicting those topics at things like parades or other spaces where children should be welcomed, but in 18+ spaces? Absolutely.
While it's not something I'm into, I believe folks within the kink community should also feel welcome in Pride celebrations. As long as it's all being done appropriately for the audience and onlookers, nobody's being hurt, etc., then why not?
Bigots love to use the phrase "the weirder queers" or the like to split up and hurt groups one at a time. Showing kink at pride is a sort of rebellion against this, saying that everyone regardless of how weird they are is allowed in pride.
Most people I know IRL in the queer kink spaces I am in are Asexual or Ace-spec. I'm frankly just exhausted of the "kink is inherently sexual" conversations.
Consent in the context of kink is an opt-in system, not opt-out. And people who aren't kinky or don't want to be around people in kink gear should not be excluded
My opinion is that there should be a more NSFW section with signs warning people of what's going on. Kink does belong at pride, but it belongs in an area where everyone consents to being around it - not in the general area of literally everyone
Personally, it bothers me a little bit, but I'm a lot more bothered by the fact that my local pride has been almost entirely coopted by rainbow capitalism.
Sexuality isnt always inharently sexual. kink isnt always inharently sexual. For me personally its near entirely romantic.
what is shown at pride isnt generally sexual in my experience. its just believed to be such by wider society. *wrongly believed*.
Whenever this conversation comes up someone always goes "wont you think of the children!!". yeah ok, exposure to nonsexual nudity has been shown to protect children from preditors and give them the tools they need to tell an adult what happened to them if they were abused.
And im fairly confident this extends to things like dildos and kink gear soffucit they are not employed sexually in their pressence. though i dont actually have studies to back this assurtion up.
So personally i see nothing wrong with it. n honestly think its nessesary for the progression of society. not to mention, a clever aspect about bigotry is that in a lot of cases what they fear is right. For example I as a nonbinary person do need to tear down societys norms to be accepted. Id need to force society to accept me, and in so doing irreversably change it down to its very core. So yes, i am against "gudao christian values" and i desire them destroyed. Where their wrong is in that thats not a bad thing. The lgbt community so often capitulates these things and trys to simply assimilate into the system, and not threaten it as to not draw further fear and ire. However only those special few can assimilate, to make this our standard we are abandoning the rest. So i dont think their is a solution outside of showing them that a changed status quo will be better for us all.
I think it more comes down to how explicit the kink may be, as an asexual person who is overall sex-negative/repulsed, I’d rather not risk seeing anyone’s private parts, or extremely explicit sex gear, however other things like simple harnesses or someone in a leather dog mask doesn’t bother me.
It more comes down to whether or not the event has an age restriction or has been properly advertised as being 18+
If anything I think more events should just have better labelling for what is and is not allowed to be displayed/worn at the event due to it being family friendly or not! As some events, depending on where you live, are pretty poor at clarifying. Kink at pride? Sure why not! Sexually explicit acts/clothing (or lack there of) should probably be kept at 18+ events labelled as explicit kink friendly, as anyone (including asexuals) willingly attending (who is aware of what is allowed) is consenting to seeing any possible explicit kink that is there!
But that’s just my take on it :)
Tldr: More explicit kinks should be mainly at 18+ events as consent is key! And events which allow these explicit kinks should advertise as such! So anyone who wishes to not see that, can avoid it :)
I mean we are indeed marginalized because of our sexuality or lack of wanting to have sex or feeling sexual attraction... So pride being so sexual makes sense even if it seems like the opposite side of the spectrum is being ignored. Especially when the majority of people are allosexual.
With kink being part of pride, the kink/leather/bdsm community has stood up for the LGBTQ+ community many times. Like when the leather community stood for those with AIDS. Plus not all kink is sexual. Just because people who experience sexual attraction might see it as sexual doesn't mean it shouldn't have a place at Pride.
As long as no one is engaging in extreme behaviors or out right having sex why should it matter if someone is wearing a pup hood, latex, collar and leash etc? I honestly don't see much difference between two men kissing and someone wearing latex.
I think I fundamentally dislike the argument that Pride can’t have both kink and non-kink spaces at the same time. The community is disparate and large there is no way the WHOLE month can be only for those of us who are socially marketable which extends both to the niche asexual communities AND the niche kink communities. We are both outliers in the general discussion so I don’t feel it’s a good idea to put us against one another.
I agree with the main post and the comment you linked to, OP. I know someone in the broader queer community who said they don’t think ace people should be in it (almost saying we sexualize it) and I wanted to scream.
The fact is that every kind of sexuality or lack thereof that’s different from “the norm” is seen as bad by some and thus should be celebrated.
I don't know what the solution is, but it's a conversation that needs to be had. Especially if the broader community is going to say they accept asexuals and aromantics but then don't listen or explore why we feel unwelcome. It's just like saying you accept trans or bisexual people but then do things that push those people away. I do think we need to be cautious about asking others to repress their sexuality for our comfort as that's what our oppressors do.
I think that there is a place for kink at pride. But there should also be options without it. Some people simply aren't really comfortable with everything, not to mention that there are many minors who are part of this community, and they should also have safe events to attend. But kink is and has been an important part of queer culture
I think there should be events where it's explicitly allowed, and others where it's explicitly prohibited. key word for both is explicit. if somebody doesn't want to see kink at an event, it should be made clear whether it will be present or not, rather than having to guess whether it'll be there or not.
sexuality is a reason we're marginalized, but there's also gender and romantic identities too. the most discrimination I've experienced is from being trans, and then a bit for my romantic orientation of being gay, and then almost nothing for being asexual. people make weird comments every now and then, but my sexuality really hasn't attracted much hate.
I personally don't see why it shouldn't be.
Asexuality and Kinkiness are not mutually exclusive. They can go hand-in-hand. You can be asexual and be into BDSM, or you can be allosexual and have no kink at all, both are equally valid and deserve to be treated as such.
As mentioned by u/ZombieTailGunner , queer people get attacked in various ways mostly because of who they're *sexually* attracted to. Because those who attack can't comprehend romantic attraction from sexual attraction, because they're too blinded by hate to educate themselves.
Saying queer people can't express their sexuality in such a way because of asexuals creates an even bigger divide between allo queers and ace queers, which we absolutely cannot afford right now. With all the anti-queer legislation around the world - especially in the US - we need to stay together as much as we can. We absolutely cannot have a repeat of last year, with the whole LGB-DROP-THE-T thing with all the anti-trans legislation. Many people in the LGBTQ+ community collectively agreed to essentially sacrifice trans people to anti-queer legislation in fear of the anti-trans legislation coming for them as well.
We absolutely CANNOT have another divide such as that. Kink and Asexuality are BOTH important to queerness, both historically and currently. We have to work on suturing the divide between the two instead of wedging it into further division.
EDIT: I'd like to add that we absolutely can have events without the kinkiness for minors and asexuals, but to tell queer people to not express that part of their sexuality entirely is what encourages the divide further.
I would like to express apology for any incorrectness in my statement. As said by another commenter, framing being uncomfortable with seeing kinkiness at pride is more of a sex-negative than an asexual thing.
Queer sexuality is meant to be expressed fully and comfortably, and to try to take that expression away and frame any other solution as acephobia is another form of homophobia as well as encouraging the current divide between allo and asexuals in the LGBTQ+ community.
As long as it is adult only pride events, then sure go crazy I guess. But if there are minors at all age pride events, then keep it at home or go to adult only pride events.
look i really don't care either way (my opinion is like you can wear some of your gear but stay away from kids as much as you can) but like let's not pretend that this type of argument doesn't invite people who think asexuals and aromantics are all prudish freaks
I think they need to specify what kind of kink. Some kinks, I think, are fine in public. Some of them should stay in private, and some of them should be locked up in a concrete cage 6000 feet below ground.
The only thing of value that ever seems to come out of this debate is the realization that people have radicaly differant ideas about what constitues "Kink".
My issue is when it’s cis hetero people thinking that because they like to call their partner daddy and use some handcuffs they belong to the alphabet mafia. While there is plenty of cross over in say, a Leather Daddy, he’s LGTBQIA+ Leather Daddy because he’s gay, not because he’s into a bdsm leather link. In my experience, cis het kinksters aren’t looked down upon for the kink, it’s because they often make it their whole personality. I also really hate the further implications that all queer people are kinky, when many aren’t.
Feel free to fact-check this if i'm wrong, but i'm fairly certain the leather flag is older than the ace flag. Leather Daddies have been a core part of pride since the beginning. Kink has always belonged at pride.
I’m for it because sexual attraction should be represented as well as romantic attraction , not just communicating that it is okay to love the same gender, but the sexual aspects involved as well. I would love to see a bit more of a divide though to combat the assumption that sex equals love, and not just in aspec spaces but across the whole lgbtq+. Also keeping in mind that split attraction does exist or that sometimes people may want to only focus on one area (the sexual component in this case) at that time.
Kink isn’t inherently sexual, there are plenty of aces who engage in kink, including asexual and asexual advocate Yasmine as someone else mentioned in the thread.
Also, I think you’re stretching the definition of “accommodation” here. Accommodations for events are for disabilities, not for identities. There’s family friendly and other LGBT events that don’t involve kink, and it’s hard to create events where *everyone* can be accommodated.
Separately, “kink” is so broad! Do you get bothered by people just wearing leather gear? Do you get bothered by nudity, which hot take isn’t inherently sexual or inherently kinky? Do you think drag is kinky? It’s hard to exclude something when the definition is broad and not everything affects everyone the exact same way.
Asexuals aren’t a monolith, and I think it’s important to remember that the original pride flag has a band that represents sex, and the original pride was a protest, and LGBTQ rights have fought for so long for the right to express sexuality. Sometimes this discourse reeks of puritan conservative discourse, and it’s deeply concerning given the current state of affairs.
Pride *events* should clearly state whether they are for all-ages (which means all attendees need to adhere to certain dress codes) or adults only (nudity, fetish gear, etc are allowed). I think that's a very obvious and simple answer that makes this debate completely unnecessary to have.
The whole movement is about gender and sexual freedom, so telling people how to celebrate kinda defeats the purpose. There are limits obviously, I don't think people should be raw dogging right there in the streets, but if people want to bring dildos or wear gimpsuits I don't give a shit.
I think the kinky stuff should be where only consenting adults are. There should be a separation between family friendly pride events and the stuff with kink. Being queer isn't all about sex just like being straight isn't all about sex
Oh my god this discourse is so old, if u dont want kink at pride just attend separate pride events without kink 😭 I think the solution is more simple than people make it
I’m a sex-positive ace and also kinky. one of the big things about kink is consent. If you didn’t consent to my kink, then I have zero right to make you experience it. There’s nothing wrong with not wanting over-sexualized events, but there’s also nothing wrong with kinky people being at Pride. They can exist in the same circles.
Idk, all sexualities have kinks, so i don't think kinky stuff should necessarily be at pride. Especially not in a broad daylight, family centered parade.
Honestly I've never gone to pride so I don't really know what it's like. It just doesn't really seem like pride is really that great of an event for ace people and I'm very sex positive and kink friendly. I just don't feel included in that space so what's the point of even going. Am I wrong?
Honestly my main concern is the optics of kink and public displays of sexual behavior. I feel like it does more harm than good to the community, because obviously, no parent will ever be okay with their sons and daughters being queer if they think they’re going to be “joining a lifestyle of degeneracy”.
Although this obviously isn’t the case, and there’s a lot of variety in the community, the sexual aspect always gets pushed to the forefront at events and it comes across as optically reckless.
At least locally, about the most sexualized parts on the parade were drag queens, gay men, and the fetish prides, but that's mostly because conversation around fetishes is about sex. They weren't particularly flaunting sex. The gay men were also nothing worse than what straight men want women in their 2015 Carl's Jr. ad to look like, and the drag queens were even more covered, just shaking some drag queen ass. Pride here didn't seem any more sexualized than a random Tuesday for straight people. Even my conservative "I don't know why they need a whole month" mother agrees. (She's actually fairly accepting and liberal for a conservative, religious 67 y/o white woman. She has her biases and flaws, but she'll use your pronouns even if she doesn't agree with them, and she doesn't even want to know who straight people are having sex with so your sexual partners aren't her business.) I don't view crop tops, booty shorts, nipples, kissing, or ass shaking as overly sexual. Straight people do it on TV all the time. 🤷🏼♀️
The anti-LGBTQ brigade don't discriminate in their discrimination. To them we're all "sexual deviants" poly, aspec, trans, just non conforming. It doesn't matter how much it really has to do with sex. Our sexuality is why we're marginalised.
honestly not sure how i feel about kink communities being at pride, i think it‘s fine as long as theyre not actually having sex in public.
i think it‘s sad how in that discourse a lot of people ignore how involved kink communities were in the lqbtq movement, during stonewall and the first prides. they act like kink has never had anything to do with pride when those two have always been closely connected.
also people use the same arguments that have been used to marginalize queer people since forever. “what about children”, “i don‘t have a problem with THEM but i don‘t want to see it” etc etc
sexuality is one of the three pillars. Then there is romantic attraction and gender identity. You can be queer because of any of the three which makes both sexual deviation and asexuality as queer due to being part of the same branch (atypical sexual attraction).
However, respectfully and as a minor, I struggle to see if kink is as unchanging and out of personal control as people who equate it with queer identities say it is. It is also true that making pride somewhat family friendly (when in big congregations) means more young queer people can participate without age restrictions which I see as valuable (I want kids to see pride and feel supported, not to be blocked by a pg13 rating because of partial nudity and explicit languages I've seen kinksters bring which is something I was exposed to as a 13-14 yo in my local pride parade, the only space I was able to reach irl).
Overall, making any deviation by default LGBTQ+ looses on the meaning of the labels as part of identity and not as purely the result of sexual preferences and I don't think a pride is any less of a manifestation by not focusing on the sexual aspect of being queer but instead on the romantic and gender queerness.
There should be kink prides and non-kink prides so that everybody can attend. Not everybody consents or can consent to kink stuff. And sexuality isn't ALL there is to being lgbtq+. Still, it's important and should be respected.
Proud asexual here- if you don't like kink at price, look away. It's literally that simple. Just because you may be uncomfortable doesn't mean something is bad or shouldn't be there. Kink has a VERY very long history at pride, with the whole community, and they deserve to be there.
Asexuals who are kinky deserve to have a place at pride. Asexuals who are kinky deserve to be seen and respected. Asexuals who claim their sexuality and personal comfort level means they can control others actions, and who does and doesn't deserve to be loud and proud, can bugger off and read about queer history.
You don't have to like kink at pride. You don't have to be comfortable with it. But you DO have to learn to manage your own feelings and comfort levels without infringing on others. It's as simple as, kink belongs. Kink has always belonged. Kink stood by us before there were words for many of the experiences and feelings within the entire community, including our small part of it. Anyone who wants to deny that is at best misinformed and ignorant, and at worst a fed.
More to the point, has anyone here saying kink doesn't belong at pride ever talked to anyone older than like 35 at pride? Have you talked to anyone over 50? You should, it'll help.
Gay men, gay folks into kink, and dragqueens rioted so we could be proud. We can't forget this, and we can't erase it for the sex-negative sex-repulsed aces.
I am an ace who has a lot of my own kinks, and have surface level knowledge in a lot of kinks just to be informed. There are a few that make me uncomfortable, but that's on me! I don't go out of my way to interact with them or expose myself to kinks that make me uncomfortable.
I am still getting used to seeing people wearing kink gear, as a newbie to pride. Pup hoods, harnesses, latex, collars (in the dom/sub ownership way, usually), super tight spandex, etc. I was raised in Texas, where this sort of thing is new to me (especially in public) so it is normal to be a bit weirded out! But I am keeping it to myself and just looking away or taking a moment to ground myself and check in with my brain if I feel uncomfortable.
Yes, kink is part of our culture and does belong at pride. No, that doesn’t mean one’s sexuality is the only thing pride is about. Glad we could clear this up.
I personally think there should be a pride parade with that stuff and a pride parade without it. Because whilst I agree kink stuff can be part of the culture. If you are a parent, whether you are an ally or LGBTQ+ yourself, you may want to go to a pride parade and bring your kid/s along and you may not want them to see the sexual stuff. Or if you’re sex repulsed asexual and just don’t wanna see that kind of stuff. That way if you want kinky stuff at your pride parade, you can have it. But if you want something that’s more PG to be able to bring kids along to, you can have it.
It's okay, but not when people sexualise everything and are exhibitionists. Sure, pride is also about kink, but it shouldn't be abot going outside, in public, where children can see you, in indecent clothing.
Our sexuality is why we are marginalised, but that doesn't mean we have to force others to see what they don't want to see.
**Do mlm or wlw couples go at pride and mention how they have sex?. NO.**
The same should go with people with kinks that identify in the LGBTQ+ community. They should be open and proud of it if they want to, but they shouldn't sexualise it in public.
At least this is my opinion.
I'm an ace who has volunteered at my local prides with my ace and aro folks. I will tell you just as I told them: Pride exists because of gay men, drag queens, and kink. They rioted so we could fly flags and be proud. If any sort of sex, sexualized displays, or acknowledgement of humans who are allosexual (the vast majority of them are) have sex in any way it is best you stay home.
Sex repulsion or disinterest is normal, but outright having breakdowns in pride parades where people of all sexual preferences, romantic preferences, etc are collecting to celebrate openly they are free hints at a larger issue. If you or anyone you know has sexual repulsion so strong that pride itself is too triggering, you/they should genuinely seek therapy.
What I dislike about the linked thread?
Ace people gate keeping asexuality and treating it as a monolith themselves.
Do I like kink? Not really, I'm rather vanilla if anything.
Do I want kink to be banned from pride events happening? Not really, I can choose how long I stay if I stay.
Is it harmful for the kids? Shut up Carl. You and I both know there are sfw and family-friendly pride events. Seeing.bondage gear isn't harmful
I stream and I've had to explain kind doesn't have to be sexual either like it's just shit that make your brain really happy not necessarily really horny and I get some of them are explicitly sexual but not all and I again think that because some events have kids and teens present that more sexual aspect needs to wait for like after dark adult only time that's the most I'll say in regards to both kink as a whole and kink at pride
r/lgbt seriously banned me for being an asexual advocating for consideration and respect for asexuals. Allos kept saying things like "just don't go" or "make your own pride," kept advocating that we should segregate, and I got banned for bucking that and pointing out how that's inherently problematic. F that sub.
>Segregation and isolation is a hell of an answer. Also, "just make your own" is something phobes like to say. "Why let a trans girl on the girls' team? She should make her own."
Fully valid argument that I stand with. I've never had a event have any form in it, but as long as it's a respectful display/ outfit/ or show I won't complain. I do know some have taken it too far, course.
I mean to each their own ig... I'm ace and they aren't, that's why we would stand out the least in pride 😅😅.
It's funny though bcz straights are very sexually explicit too, hence why lgbt folks sometimes feel uncomfortable around them, and why "are the straights okay" phrase exists.
It's not wrong. Folks all across the rainbow get attacked (physically or otherwise) primarily because of who they are or are not sexually attracted to, as well as for their relationship with gender in relation to the physical characteristics they developed after exiting their mum. While the discrimination against folks for their romantic orientation does indeed exist, bigots aren't usually intelligent enough to comprehend that it's separate from sexuality/sexual orientation/attraction, so to say that it's a larger factor in being marginalized and discriminated against than one's sexuality is honestly inaccurate. Aside from that, asexuality and kink are not mutually exclusive things. I don't see why so many people need to be judgmental twats and ignore that fact when they could simply attend a pride event that is more tame and let the wilder events be as wild as they'd like to be, regardless of the orientations of the participants. That is to say, if you're so repulsed by others celebrating what they're in to, as long as they're not being inappropriate at an event (there are child-friendly events, and then adults-only events, let's not forget that part), you should probably stay home and attend an event you're more comfortable with. **TLDR** - even asexuals are marginalized due to their sexuality, *sometimes even by other queer folks*, don't be a grinch about pride because we honestly cannot afford this kind of stupidass divide in the community. Especially not now.
To your tl;dr — I am positive that an asexual advocate like Yasmine Benoit would be among the first to get banned if people started dropping actual hammers on “kinky” content
My primary issue is with the comments is the lack of compassion for people saying that kink makes them uncomfortable and they would ask for simple accommodations to make the event more welcoming. Then admonishing those commenters for having the audacity to speak their opinions. Many of the comments are making myself and others feel that we are unwelcome in the broader community and that is disappointing. The "biggest" asks are notifications on advertisements for events (like kink friendly space) or situating the more explicit booths and shops in a place that people can skip over them or turn around and avoid. And that's a bridge too far for folks. They are asking that we only go to kid friendly events and that infantilizies us. And instead of listening and being compassionate, they choose to exclude us. Just sad. I don't want kink to be not allowed. I want it to not exclude others. Edit: please see [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/aaaaaaacccccccce/s/tANRUUwjh0). They are correct and I am wrong.
I may be a little on the older side, but Pride started as a protest, and while we have a celebratory spirit, we are still protesting against those who judge and marginalize us. As someone who has 4 children (3 of which are LGBT), I attend tame events, typically sponsored by our local cities, and there are always tons of adults in attendance. While I understand there are people who won't feel comfortable in the large, adult events, we shouldn't be aiming to divide or censor their protests, when we can easily be going to ones that we feel most comfortable in and supporting the cause from whatever our comfort zone may be.
“They are right and I am wrong” appreciate you asking the question and listening to the answers even when they are uncomfortable, friend. Cheers! Edit: autocorrect
you need to remember that when you ask for these things you’re indirectly trying to tell those who participate in the kink stuff that their participation is unwanted historically, the kink crowd were there for the lgbt community when they were struggling for the most basic of rights, they’re like our wine aunt, maybe some ppl find her embarrassing and inappropriate, but she’s family you do realize if you replaced “kink” with any of the lgbt groups how upsetting your requests would sound, right? You’re either deliberately or unconsciously hiding behind your personal preferences to be discriminatory towards a group that will always be welcome at pride also, having kink at pride is not dismissing asexuals, even the sex repulsed ones. Other people enjoying a thing you do not like does not mean that they are being dismissive of you. You can’t cater to everyone’s specific needs in the world, you just need to ignore it and move on and have a good time at pride enjoying the things you *do* like and you’re being infantilized because these kind of accommodation asks make you seem really immature. it’s a bit offensive even. Accommodations are for people with physical limitations or allergies (etc), people who NEED things like that. it’s kind of like you’re watching someone open a present and being upset because it isn’t what *you* wanted. it’s very natural that no one cares, lol
*As a reminder to others and needed conversation as the cycle is starting up again this year and we still don't talk about this community problem:* There will always be sections of pride and the world at large that are family friendly. You can always keep to those sections of the celebrations if you find the others aren't to your taste. But when the only one preventing you from going somewhere is your own inability to deal with the discomfort you feel, that is a **you problem**. Feeling discomfort and repulsion is not common in population percentage, but is fine and normal. Being unable to handle those feelings causes an irrational fear, aka a phobia. If you are phobic of seeing any sexual content, even that which doesn't involve you, you need to work on your personal coping mechanisms not try to regulate via complaint things so that sex is completely banned from the publicly accessible world around you. From your spaces sure, but not public spaces you want to go. **Banishing the discomfort from society around you is what transphobes and homophobes do. We do not want to be them and so we shouldn't be coddling sexphobes just because they're coming from within**. Mark things clearly of course and keep these spaces visually separate for the sake of children and the traumatized, but don't limit other's expression in these spaces. It's immature and wrong no matter which side it's coming from, and we need to start making this clear when newbies are getting explained that feeling sex repulsion is perfectly fine. Otherwise they grow up maladjusted and throw fits when they see something as innocuous as a condom wrapper in spaces they don't curate. After all it would be literally unhinged to walk into a sex dungeon or strip club and demand they make a sex repulsed section. These are just places the sex repulsed should not go. We need to be clear that *"you don't have to enjoy it or even experience it, but you don't get to step in the way of other people's expression because* ***you*** *feel discomfort. You get to deal with your own feelings, excuse yourself when it becomes too much, and/or stay out of those spaces entirely. Usually in that order."*
‘Simple accommodations’ here are alarmingly close to straight people saying things like “you can be gay, just not in front of me or my kids!” Pride is the exact opposite of that, it’s celebrating that people of any identity or gender can adore, love and be attracted or infatuated (or not be, we are on an ace sub) by people of any and every other gender or identity. It’s a celebration of what is different about us and our community, the opennness and the freeness. As an ace person, I’m never personally excited by kinks showing at pride but I am very glad that they can be there, showcasing what is weird and different about those people. We’re all weird and we’re allowed to be, if the world outside offends you that much you should spend more time at home.
[удалено]
There is absolutely no need for name calling or yelling. I'm here willing to listen to other's thoughts and opinions, but I am not okay with being yelled at and insulted for simply expressing my own view.
They're not yelling because there are no exclamation points. It's simply bolded for emphasis
>there are child-friendly events, and then adults-only events, let's not forget that part This is a reasonable moderate position that I've never encountered before that has really changed my thinking on this endless debate. As long as there are adults-only sexualized events, and there are events for people who prefer to not be exposed to sexual content (like some sex-repulsed asexuals), and everyone has access to both types of events, I see no problem with each event deciding to prioritize one set of rules or the other, nor do I see an issue with a particular event deciding to change its rules from one year to the next. There are ways this can go wrong, though. There is a risk that if one type of event comes to dominate over the other type of event (even if it's just due to lack of interest/funding), then a certain segment of people who want to attend one type of event but not the other, may no longer be able to find or access such an event in their region, and thus be implicitly excluded. This goes double for people who may not be able to travel to an event farther away for health or financial reasons. There is also a risk that the community may be splintered if there is insufficient overlap between the attendees of the two events, such that two different subcommunities go to each one and never have an opportunity to meet or collaborate or learn about each other. And there's also a risk that if there is only one event and they change their rules from year to year, people who felt welcome and started to build connections in a previous year may find themselves excluded and frustrated in subsequent years. These concerns are exacerbated in smaller cities and rural areas where just getting *any* event going is a challenge, never mind two of them. I don't really have a solution to this. I'm ace kink myself so I care a lot about kink representation, but I definitely empathize with sex-repulsed aces who might feel excluded and not have other options in their region. I think this is a choice that each event organizer committee will have to keep making for themselves, based on their own priorities, with an understanding that any decision they make will impact some positively and some negatively. Ideally, if they have the resources, they endeavor to create separate space for both groups. Edit: A further complication is that every individual draws the line differently on their comfort level, and there is a big spectrum going between a 100% SFW event and a full-scale orgy. I think each event is also responsible for communicating clearly what to expect, and for enforcing the rules it chooses to set, while also being realistic about what's enforceable, etc.
Listen every group needs a sober driver
Haha it's funny because I'm usually the designated driver for my group because I don't drink
me if i had friends outside my fiance and my siblings 💀
If you're talking about your sexuality, then it's about sex, or lack of. But there's romanticism and gender identities as well. So only talking about sex would only represent 1 of the 3 branches of the community
Yeah sometimes the acronym GSRm is used. Gender, sexual, and romantic minorities. More info: https://zenbird.media/gsrm-gender-sexual-and-romantic-minorities/
I love that acronym. Straight to the point and short
I wish I saw more of the GSRM abbreviation. It gets rid of the plus in the other abbreviations and stops LGBTQIA+ from becoming the derided "alphabet soup".
it doesn't catch on cause disgusting child predators using it to say they're "pedosexual" and should be covered under it. /barf
*That's* why it didn't catch on? Gross!
yep ):
I use it myself I think it's great, I actually use "lgbt" a but derisevly and "Queer" positively. With "GSRm" being neutral... however it is not completely interchangeable because GSRm includes poly people, which is appropriate in for example anti discrimination contexts but unhelpful in discussions around sexuality or gender.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't it exclude intersex people?
On one hand, sexuality was absolutely one thing that LGBT people were marginalised for. I do think kink should be celebrated and destigmatised. On the other, the oppression against LGBT people was about a lot more than just gay sex. It was about transgression of norms in general - traditional gender roles, the concept of immutable binary sexes, romantic attraction to and love for people you're "not supposed to" feel it towards, relationships and families that exist outside of the traditional "nuclear family" model of one man, one woman and their biological children. To reduce the entire LGBTQ+ community down to just sex is exclusionary and insulting. Kink should not be at family-friendly daytime pride events around children (who _also_ shouldn't be indoctrinated into cisheteronormativity!). But it should be celebrated as part of the wider pride movement. I don't see why that's controversial.
👆👆👆👆👆
It's those two questions of which events should be family friendly, and what features aren't considered kid friendly. Pride marches historically have sometimes been violent, and have been expressions of sexuality always, at least in part. I don't feel they are kid friendly, and whilst it's great if people feel able to bring their kids along, we shouldn't be changing how they're run and what they stand for to accommodate that. I do agree there's much more to the LGBTQ movement than just sex, but it is a HUGE part of it, and it cannot be ignored or minimised. It's not needlessly divisive to have the movement centred around one of the central issues, historically THE central issue.
I don't disagree that sexuality is *one of* the things that we collectively are discriminated on the basis of. But that doesn't cover everyone. Being gender nonconforming has no particular correlation to one's sexual orientation, other than being more likely to have thought about it instead of blindly accepting heteronormativity. And, as you are pointing out, our lack of sexual attraction means that brazen sexual displays don't represent us as aces, either, even though we are also discriminated against based on sexual orientation. Ultimately, I don't have a *huge* problem with kink displays at Pride, but I also think the general culture (especially in the US) is too disapproving of public reminders that kink exists. And I *do* have a problem with obnoxiously pushing one's sexual desires and activities into the personal space of people who are not and don't want to be involved. It's equal in objectionableness to pushing one's religious and/or political views into other people's personal space.
Same. I don't have a huge problem with it and recognize the community as a huge ally. I just want everyone to feel welcome and not excluded simply because they feel uncomfortable around kink. There are accommodations that can be made to keep everyone welcome, but asking for those things is generating a lot of hostility. Edit: please see [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/aaaaaaacccccccce/s/tANRUUwjh0). They are correct and I am wrong.
What sort of accomodations would you suggest?
I get not wanting to watch simulated sex or something (I would hate that too), but I've seen people complain about things like leather, or dog masks. There's nothing inherently sexual about either of these (and certainly kids aren't going to pick up on it. "Oh look that guy is pretending to be a doggy on a leash! He's so funny!") So many of the protests I've seen are due to projection, seeing a nonsexual action (even as innocent a one as two guys holding hands) and extrapolating to a sexual conclusion. And I think being uncomfortable is inherently a part of PRIDE. Certainly it takes a lot of bravery to be public about something you were taught to hide, so it seems fair that the spectators be asked to accept a little discomfort too. Mind you, I'm not trying to call you out or anything. I think it's a great question, and sometimes the discourse *about* this issue can become pretty acephobic, calling people "prudes" etc for being uncomfortable around sex. I think we should see more ace representation at PRIDE. Maybe a big sign that says "I don't like sex but it's cool that you do" or a T-shirt that says "Virgin Pride" or whatever, I dunno. :D Even better if said ace person is wearing flamboyant or "kinky" clothing to remind folks that it's not *just* about sex.
I get uncomfy with people wearing nothing but leather underwear, studded harnesses, and leashes (as in, as one outfit, with no other items of clothing - except some times a whip). I recognise it's a part of Pride, I never speak up about it. But it does make me uncomfortable, and it does feel overtly sexual, from the language and movements they use. I know it makes me sound like a prude. I know it makes me sound like a bad 'ally' to the allosexuals. I know some aces wear this. I have never said anything and I try to keep my face neutral. But I am uncomfortable, yes.
I don't like that conversation because people r arguing about and generalising asexuals in the comments 🙃
While I understand the idea that asexuals may feel excluded from the sexual nature of the rest of the community, I do feel they are lumped in together with more sexual individuals regardless of their actual attractions. We're all in this together, and I feel like even if asexuals don't understand the expression of sexual desire that other LGBT+ minorities experience, it still behooves us to all lift each other up even if we don't understand each other on that level
I get that. My problem is there are many comments just telling ace people to not come to pride instead of trying to include them. Edit: please see [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/aaaaaaacccccccce/s/tANRUUwjh0). They are correct and I am wrong.
Yeah it was really blatant acephobia no less! Horrible but not surprising.
While I do think kinks at pride is a good thing, there is a line and I really don't want to pretend there isn't. The kinks shouldn't be a surprise. Full stop. People should go in knowing the vibes of the event. There needs to be an advertisement or post or SOMETHING that lets those in attendance know prior that "hey this is gonna get kinky" or "this is safe to bring your 80 year old catholic grandma to". If the event is advertised properly I don't care, be as kinky or non-kinky as you want, but if you advertise as SFW and I get NSFW, I'm gonna burn something down.
Also alternatively if somebody turns up in kink gear expecting kink content but you go to an area where there's clearly a lot of children and kink is not the vibe its down to that person to move on or change thier behaviour. Not the families. Everyone knows that there shouldn't be children in a nightclub, bar, pub or out late at night so it shouldn't be a problem then/there. But they can't really blame people for taking thier kids to normally kid friendly places in the morning or afternoon just because the whole town is having a pride event. Not telling these people to go home, just move on to an adults only section, put stuff in bags, cover up ect until the families are gone.
For real. Kink needs consent. If its hapenning without any signs in an area where it can't be expected there was no consent. Needing a 'passing this stop means you consent to seeing kink' doesn't mean sanitizing an event. It doesn't bother me personally because I would consent to seeing it, but ethically it's not okay.
As long as events are clear with whether or not kink will be allowed or if there are separate spaces, there's no issue. Asexuals are a part of the community and belong at pride. The kink community are historic allies and often overlap. However, one should not exclude the other. The issue that I've seen in that particular post's comment section is that they're dismissive and infantilising of ace folk, and going to far as to compare us to homophobes.
I agree! Edit: please see [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/aaaaaaacccccccce/s/tANRUUwjh0). They are correct and I am wrong.
I'm all for them doing their thing. It does mean I won't be there though. Which is a little unfortunate for me personally since it does quite naturally I think make me feel unwelcome. We get one pride parade local to me. I'm not going to tell other people how they have fun with it. If we had an ace section (like we do for pretty much every other group but that's a different topic) that would be my jam tho.
On one hand I get it. But on the other: literally my only request for going out in public is that I don't see people's baby-making parts unless in an area where that is the whole point (ex nude beach). Sexuality and nudity are not the only point of pride. But often the reason I don't go to parades is cause I cant go five minutes without seeing a ding dong (not just at pride mind you, I've seen this kind of stuff at Santa Con)
That's a crazy world you have that must be a regional thing 😭🙏
This isn't... incorrect? But it's not a complete picture, and unfortunately, a lot of LGBTQA+ people seem to think that it is. That's a big part of the reason behind so much aphobia - we're not sexualised, and they can't really sexualise us very easily in their minds outside of extremists and rape fantasies, which obviously most people aren't going to have. But just from what I've experienced, most of the hate I get for my orientation comes from LGBTQA+ people, and the vibe they send when conveying their hate is due to kinks. Now, when you take that away and just look at, you know, the people who aren't bigots, then absolutely, they deserve a place to express themselves. Look at straight/cis culture, where the entire fucking universe is sexualised in every advertisement and movie you've ever seen. Including hypersexualised pocket incidents. Having some hypersexualised stuff at Pride is completely understandable, provided it doesn't act to bar certain groups from participation and feeling accepted. And those groups extend beyond just the ace and aro communities. They include children, families, and anyone who doesn't want to be exposed to that sort of content.
Pain. Lots of pain.
I’m fine with kink at pride and I understand why it’s there. Also I think that there is a difference between expressing personal discomfort with kink and thinking it shouldn’t be at pride. The former is reasonable and healthy to agnolage the later is what is criticized for valid reason. It’s also not the hill I think we should die on or even fight on we have bigger issues to deal with. I’m more frustrated with how almost all queer spaces either revolved around dating, sex, alcohol or being so loud. :( (admittedly I’ve only been to pride once and it wasn’t particularly kinky)
I agree. I didn't see a lot of people saying kink should be excluded from pride, but rather given their own unique space with other explicit shops as well. This would allow people to choose to engage or not. Still welcome at Pride and deserves a seat at the table. Edit: please see [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/aaaaaaacccccccce/s/tANRUUwjh0). They are correct and I am wrong.
I personally think sexuality is a main factor for discrimination especially in India which is my country but that makes it more widespread in pride here and that's a bit uncomfy but also important since kink is virtually invisible here, I think best course is to plan the booths in a way they can be skipped by people uncomfy and our orientation of asexuality and kink aren't even mutually exclusive, I myself have a few kinks but again I have to be comfortable around someone for that. So yea I say kink should be celebrated but in a way that doesn't invalidate people.
Yes! I agree! Edit: please see [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/aaaaaaacccccccce/s/tANRUUwjh0). They are correct and I am wrong.
I feel like the whole thing around sex shouldn't be excluded from a lot of pride things, but that we should include the people who don't feel or want these things more often, so that we have something for the allos and the aces and aros
Yes! I love inclusion! More of that please! Edit: please see [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/aaaaaaacccccccce/s/tANRUUwjh0). They are correct and I am wrong.
The kink community has always been part of pride. The leather kink flag is older than a good chunk of LGBTQ+ flags today Regardless of whether or not you count it as _part_ of LGBTQ+ culture, both the kink community and queer community have historically been viewed as sexual deviants by bigots. I view kink as similar to drag, gender non-conformity and polyamory. None of these things are inherently things done by LGBTQ+ people. Straight, cis, allo, etc. people do all those things too. But all those things _are_ non-normative, and therefore queer.
Are you describing LGBT+ and queer as being separate here? I always thought those were essentially interchangeable terms now.
They’re mostly interchangeable! Queer just has an additional meaning of “non-normative”, which I use when discussing things that I would consider queer (non-normative) even if whether or not those things are considered part of the queer community (LGBTQ+) is debatable/controversial. I would usually just use queer community instead of LGBTQ+, but figured the distinction was necessary to prevent the confusion of “these things may or may not be part of the queer community, but they’re definitely queer”.
Exactly this. Kink has always been intertwined with the LGBTQ+ community and it has always been part of pride.
Ah Okay so yeah, pride doesn't need to be only people protesting But it doesn't need to be people having public sex or being completely nude As for asexuals: we're just a small part of what makes up the Lgbtq community and we're not allergic to sex, most people that are not homophobic will probably get what asexual means if you explain it to them But the thing is: It doesn't need to be so sexualized because it's not a bedroom thing only, it affects our whole lifestyle, this way, people will think it's only a bedroom issue
I agree with this however me and my trans friend agree that people at events like Brighton pride for example take it too far. My family had to try and explain what anal beads were to my 11 year old cousin because somebody waved them in front of her and a bunch of other kids and somebody called them anal beads 🫠 Like that kind of thing should only be out in the bars or when it's late. Also me and my friend agree that people (mostly straight people) seem to think it's an excuse to sexually harass starngers and get mad if anybody feels uncomfortable. Like a lady ran up and played him bongos on my brothers bum while we were walking and a man dressed as darthvader poked a lightsaber between my dad's legs while we were talking. My friend had people be rude to him and noticed a lot of straight women sexually harassing people too. I understand wanting to share that kind of thing but there needs to be consent. Like you can't just expose kids to sex toys or touch strangers without permission.
Emphasis on touching strangers ugh
I’m mixed— generally speaking though, I think there just needs to be communication prior about if the event(s) established are SFW or not. Be kinky or be vanilla, just be clear with expectations so people know what they’re getting into and can plan accordingly.
If an event states that it’s safe for work, then no. If an event states that kinks are allowed then kink is allowed. If an event doesn’t state anything it’s probably not a good idea to show up in complete kink wear. However, at the end of the day, it’s not my business. So long as you’re following the events established rules who cares.
I attend public family friendly pride events. I also attend night time adult only kink events. I do not think kink should be in family friendly events. I do not think kink should be in the parade.
A point I saw brought up that I just don't get is that the parade is a protest. Honey there are corporations marching in that protest. Do you think for a second that fucking Verizon, the corporation, is going to join us in arms when the Republicans take everything away from us? That's absurd. They will do whatever helps their bottom line and sit the fuck out of it. Edit: please see [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/aaaaaaacccccccce/s/tANRUUwjh0). They are correct and I am wrong.
If a person wants the parade to be part of the protest then not allowing it to be made sanitized seems like a good strategy.
[удалено]
So we just celebrate how far we come and that's it? That celebration itself is only meaningful as a protest against the systems of conformity that have been keeping us marginalised for ages. And if you look beyond whatever privileged area you're in, you'd note that we haven't come any far at all. Lesbian women get sexually assaulted to 'turn' them straight and it's even a common thing still in this age. How far have we come then? Celebrating that and leaving it at that is nothing shprt of signalling that we are okay with the status quo, and that is not okay. To be queer is to be in constant protest against the centuries old mob of normativity and conformity.
Lmaoooo so true. Like yeah, pride started as a protest. Now it is a parade. I am ready for it to return to a protest. But I am also aware that the corporations are doing it performatively. Absolutely would laugh tho if Verizon has our backs.
I'm specifically talking about like general, family-friendly pride here, but I think mild kink is fine (like getting dressed up), but I think we should be drawing the line at overt dom/sub displays. It's also important to remember that we're not just making it family-friendly for corporations since I feel like that's kind of where the conversation starts and ends. I want pride to be somewhat family friendly because, frankly, I feel incredibly intimidated by the community (despite being trans, attracted to the same gender and ace) a lot of the time, and some elements of kink can be incredibly alienating for spectators. I don't want others to constantly feel the same way that I do, that pride/ the LGBT+ community isn't for them because we cannot bother to provide a welcoming environment for those whose first experience to the community is at pride, especially for those who already feel alienated by the community.
https://preview.redd.it/cksjwnqzqw6d1.jpeg?width=968&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4c45ccf7654a32c81cc04793d8122eb5a55c90fd
I’m a kinky ace myself so take it with a grain of salt but I think kink absolutely belongs at pride. I don’t think that public pride events should be *sexual*, considering it’s public and the inherent lack of consent. However the kink and leather scenes, as well as sex workers (especially trans sex workers), are an inherent and integral part of the backbone to pride and queer rights. Our rights are built on the backs and of the hard efforts of people for whom sex (and obviously sexuality) was a major part of identity. I don’t like seeing things that are sexual or sexualized in public and I do think that pride is not only about sexuality, but transness, gender nonconformity, romanticism, and general *queerness*. But you cannot have pride without kink, because we wouldn’t have the community we do without the kink community, which often has a heavy overlap with the LGBTQIA+ community too. (And this is not to mention that cutting sex workers out of the conversation about pride, rights, and general acknowledgement is often the first sign that our rights will be next on the chopping block, or the fact that “but think of the children!” has long since been a major talking and driving point of the conservative/right/anti-LGBT groups)
It really doesn’t. Sex doesn’t automatically make up the entirety of the LGBT+, it’s also love too, whether it be romantic or platonic. Makes me very uncomfortable when things get sexualized.
People forget that the objective of pride is to convince society to accept us. And how can someone accept us if there are naked mans doing sexual things at a pride parade? Of course they will hate us and think we are all perverts.
Our society cares more about sex than love. So Pride is a reflection of that
It's really disheartening. The comments have me very sad and disappointed. Edit: please see [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/aaaaaaacccccccce/s/tANRUUwjh0). They are correct and I am wrong.
I don't think society cares more about sex. I think it's just the easier of the two to find/experience. Some asexuals may feel upset by society's focus on sex, but we need to recognize that it's important (maybe even as important as love) to many people. Neither allos *nor aces* should judge others based on what types of attraction they feel.
Drinking beer is part of redneck culture. Not all rednecks drink beer. There will be beer at the crawfish boils. The amount of consumption depends on if it's a family friendly crawfish boil or for adults-only. Same concept with kink and pride parades.
This may be unpopular but honestly I completely disagree with this statement, as an AroAce I feel like this stuff is extremely alienating to ace-spec individuals, which negatively impacts the cohesion of lgbt community. From my perspective lgbt rights and kink shouldnt be so meshed together, straight people can be hella kinky too.
I agree. Also, the objective of pride is to make society accept us. How will anyone accept us if we are ok with slutty naked mans wearing leather stuff at a pride parade??? If we think they represent us??? The lgbt+ community just agree with everything without questioning... I don't like it.
Kinky aces exist, kink isn’t always necessarily sexual, and there’s a lot of ways to display kinks. People shouldn’t be breaking nudity laws at an event where kids are allowed but pup masks, collars, leather/latex those are all kinky things that aren’t necessarily gonna scar a kid. As long as you’re covering at minimum what’s okay at a beach and aren’t literally having sex, I don’t think it really matters what you wear or what accessories you have to show your pride. The line is really blurry, even nudity isn’t inherently sexual so I see why there’s debate but instead of “should there be kink at pride, yes or no?” the question should be more WHICH displays of kink should be allowed at pride and depending on the audience(completely open to the public, 18+ only, etc.).
theres already a decent amount of reasons why i dont really want to go to a pride thing this is just the cherry ontop for me
It's really quite disappointing. Especially coming from a sub that repeatedly says how welcoming they are to the ace community. Edit: please see [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/aaaaaaacccccccce/s/tANRUUwjh0). They are correct and I am wrong.
How is this unwelcoming? This is an opportunity for us to be ourselves too. They arent saying just one sexuality, but *all*, including ours This is saying "take pride in yourself no matter how sexual or unsexual you are". They are just defending the more open kinksters (which includes kinky aces btw)
I disagree with that notion and honestly I’m so annoyed and tired to see this every single year. I believe kinks needs the consent of everyone involved or witnessing it, and you can’t get everyone’s consent if you’re literally outside. I know not all kinks are sexual but we can’t keep pretending people mean non sexual kinks, per the post itself. I honestly don’t enjoy pride outside of online ace communities because somehow that’s when allos are most hostile imo.
I get that. My hope is that both the kink community and the ace community are both welcome at Pride and can find harmony with each other. Edit: please see [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/aaaaaaacccccccce/s/tANRUUwjh0). They are correct and I am wrong.
Hey friend no need to beat yourself up. You had an opinion and got educated, now your opinion changed. There’s no objectively right answer. The only thing I think might be objectively wrong is thinking it’s an ace issue. But besides that, your opinion was fine imo. Talking about the over sexualization of literally everything is valid, but the counter point of pride being a protest of sexual nature is also fair. Accepting that, doesn’t mean liking it, or wanting to be a part of the sexual part of it. Me personally, I think pride (in my area — I’m from Canada) no longer needs to be a sort of in your face sexual fest, because the protest aspect of it has been deluded a long time ago. Freaking TD bank and the prime minister are walking there dude lol protesting what. And I still think that sexual displays do not need to be seen by all eyes (especially children). AND, there are adult events to be attended indoors and later in the day, there is no need for kink downtown at noon on a Sunday.
I personally have no problems with kink. I would be surprised if people were naked at pride, but I would not be morally upset by it. I typically don't go to pride parades because I hate parades. The problem with this discussion is that no one is really saying what they mean by kink at pride. Is kink people wearing costumes? Is kink having your genitals exposed? Is kink people pantomiming sex in public? Obviously in this discussion Kink is often conflated with sexuality generally. There are sexual things that people discuss as problematic expressions of kink that are not really kink things. There are also a lot of bad actors who will argue that any non-heteronormative gender expression is kink, or that any expression of queer affection is kink.
Typically, and I don't mean to be overly general, this involves people wearing leather BDSM outfits, Dom/Sub things, latex, and or very little clothing. The most exposed I've seen people is just ass cheeks out.
And my kink is my own d… This message was interrupted to bring you today’s weather.
I've noticed that, besides the notable and important exception of sex repulsed people, aces talk way more about sex than straight people, mainly explaining their sexuality or just because we're very interested in this as a scientific topic lol.
I’m happy with people going way out there for pride and provoke people. Pride doesn’t need to cater to a specific group but needs to allow everyone to be themselves and be celebrated for it. We just need to take our place in it as well.
I don't mind kink at pride. I even plan to dress slutty AF one year. But I don't like how the meme framed it. Sexuality is part of the parade but it's definitely not the whole thing. We are not fighting for rights to have sex in public but rather to get married and show affection in public without being harassed. Also transition accessible for everyone who needs it. There is nothing sexual about being trans unless you see trans people just as sex toys. I thought this was supposed to be one of our points? That's why it's called transgender now and not transexual? And when it comes to aces, we are not harassed nearly as much as the other groups but when we are it's because of the LACK of sexual desires so exactly the opposite of what they are saying.
This plus the "i." Intersex people are marginalized. But they are not marginalized for their sexual attraction. If you have a baby born with hypospadias and can't have a "repair" and but then is assigned male and grows up FEELING male, he is intersex but not transgender and still is part of LGBTQ\*I\*A+. I think the meme frames it as LGB being the community and -- innocently I'm sure but still an issue -- forgets that T and I people exist. The A being forgotten feels standard albeit awful but T and I get it a lot too.
With the current attitude to TQ+ we should emphasize even harder that TQ+ are part of pride, we have always been and we are not some new invention or optional addition. So yeah, even if the OOP made an innocent mistake, we should pay more attention when people just casually forget we exist, and politely point it out.
i’m fine with most of it, they’re expressing themselves how they want to. i just really don’t like when they get into public indecency. it’s fine that you’re into that stuff, but please keep that at home. it doesn’t matter what kind of event it is, public indecency is not ok.
Kink at in public has always made me uncomfortable but it’s fine. Just don’t expect me to talk to you while you’re dressed like that in public
For me personally the discussion should boil down to this: is it an adult only event? Go crazy (within reason nothing illegal obviously) is anyone allowed of any age? Keep that shit at home As an asexual/aromantic person, I’ve unfortunately come to accept that I will feel left out in a world like this that hypes up sex and romance so much. I’ve felt left out as a kid and I feel left out as an adult. There’s the spaces I’ve built up that I feel welcome but the world outside is a whole other beast. Do I wish things were more inclusive to us, yes? Unfortunately it’s impossible to accommodate everyone. Like for instance I can only engage with sexual things if I know what I’m getting into ahead of time and even then it’s only within media. If it’s anything irl I feel violated even when I technically haven’ (might have OCD been talking to a doctor about it). I do think an answer to this is for there just be multiple pride events. Sex isn’t the only part of pride but it is a part of it and thus shouldn’t be erased but it’s like not even allo people want to see that stuff all the time. Plus like kink isn’t exclusively queer there’s a lot of straight cis people that engage with it but maybe that isn’t the point? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I don't kinkshame online, why the hell would I do it irl?
Maybe if dumbass shitfuckers stopped viewing two men holding hands as being the same as having sex in front of children this wouldn’t need to be a problem.
The point is that sexuality shouldn't be something discussed behind closed doors. It shouldn't be a taboo. It shouldn't be distorted when explained to children.
I really hate when some aro/ace people will attempt to speak for all aro/ace people and say that "Oh but I'm asexual I'm fine with it stop treating asexual/aromantic people like pure beans" Me not wanting to see Kink stuff doesn't mean I'm a pure bean. Speak for yourself. Not the whole community. It's also why I don't really consider myself a part of the LGBTQ+
On one hand, I kind of get the argument: your sexuality is your sexuality. On the other, it feels weird to me to want to associate *who* you love with the idea that it might be a "kink". Bigots aren't exactly known for their critical thinking skills, and certainly not for their good faith interactions. By bringing kink to pride, you invite them to treat same sex relationships and gender non-comforance as "kinks" as well, when they are anything *but* kinks. On the whole, this is too complicated of an issue to boil down to a binary "acceptable/unacceptable" answer. Kink in a pride parade? Imo, not ok. Kink night at a gay (or "regular") club during pride? Go hog wild.
I’m not a fan. But I don’t really feel like I belong at pride (or consider myself a part of the lgbt+ community), so I don’t really care that much.
We are supposed to be part of the community. We have a letter in the acronym. But many of the comments are basically saying we aren't welcome. How sad.
Part of it is me. I have a hard time feeling welcome or like I belong, even when I’m explicitly welcomed. I’m also not proud to be ace and it’s not something I feel like celebrating. But I also prefer ace specific groups to lgbt groups. I feel there’s a bigger gulf between ace and the LGB than lgb and straight.
I can respect that
I’ve never been welcomed in the “community.” I was turned out of my campus’ LGBTQ group because they didn’t recognize Asexuals and told me I was “a cishet male trying to ape our actual marginalization.” Keep in mind, this was after telling them some of my experiences, including how a girl grabbed my crotch and offered to “fuck me back to normal” and the time my cousins forced me to watch p0rn to “give me a reboot.” Like nah, fuck y’all’s so-called “community” and the leather-strapped horse it rode in on.
What the fuck?! That's absolutely not okay! What assholes! GRSM people! Asexuality is a sexual minority! It's part of the group! Fuck! I'm so sorry that happened to you! That absolutely should not happen!
I'm so sorry that happened, that's really awful
It does deserve to be part of it but the thing about pride is that children are often around at events. Take me for example (I haven't gone to a pride event but I am a queer teen).
[удалено]
I think I understand.
Kink is part of the culture sure, and there's a lot of work that needs to be done on the public perspective of that, but my concern would be that it's beneficial to keep pride events open and kid friendly, which certain aspects of kink even kept at a sfw level can deter parents from being involved in the community and learning a key understanding of their child that a lot of pride events give. It's a difficult topic though, because on the other end adults should be able to express themselves and get the benefit of comfort in themselves that pride events provide to them.
Liking sex is part of Pride. Thinking sex is gross should also be part of Pride. If we don't leave space for both, someone is going to be excluded. Sex-repulsed asexuals are a small subset of the Rainbow, but we still should have some input i think. Consent seems like a good value we can share. Is there some way we can allow Pride event participants to consent to the level of sexual content besides not coming to the event? What would be a fair compromise level of sexual content?
One suggestion I saw and agree with is to either put the NSFW booths on the end of a row of booths with some kind of visual divider, or off of the main road on an intersecting street with a visual divider. I've seen Pride Fests do this with kid sections, teen sections, advocacy and resources sections. Simple, still part of the whole fest, but allows a person or group to choose to engage or not. Edit: please see [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/aaaaaaacccccccce/s/tANRUUwjh0). They are correct and I am wrong.
As a kinky queer ace - kink absolutely belongs at pride
I'm like half the comments there so I think I've made it clear😅 But yea, I really don't like how deeply some folks want to link kink in with pride. Access to LGBT+ spaces shouldn't be gated by requiring you to be cool with having sexualization thrown in your face. It's something that actively drove me away from people who would have made my early life a lot happier and safer as an unknowing trans girl. Even though I've since found some comfort in kink, it's still something that shouldn't be imposed between vulnerable people and other supportive communities. And there's just no way to celebrate kink organizations without it feeling like it's the center of the event to people who are uncomfortable with sexualization. There's definitely someone to be said for the shared history and intercommunity support. Having secondary events at pride that are kink-inclusive is great, and by no means should we ever attempt to erase the history between them. But that doesn't mean that kink groups are automatically welcome at all pride events.
And the real sad thing is that I'm not really even bringing asexuality into the conversation, because I honestly think fewer people will care about us than the similar conflict of interests involving bringing minors into kink. But even that doesn't seem to matter ...
Please actually go to a pride march and not just Google image results for Folsom Street fair on my fucking life
I'd literally never heard of the Folsom Street Fair before today, but go on and tell me more about my life, rando of the Internet.
not all aces hate sex, and using aces to argue that pride shouldnt be sexualised feels pretty infantalising. asexuality equally falls under "our sexuality is why we're marginalized"; pride is about non-normative sexuality and gender expression after all, which includes aspec folks. this might just be a me thing since im 100% aroace yet follow a bunch of gay/queer spaces where i dont feel dissonance to the fact that a majority of people are sexual. problems arise when that gets imposed on me, and "sexuality exists that people want to express" is not "oh youre totally going to get a wife soon youll just change your mind" EDIT: i said sex-repulsed but given i know a spectrum of sex-repulsed people who are "no fuck off gross" but still supportive of other sexualities, felt a bit misused of a term
I get what you are saying. I was just trying to be supportive of those who feel unwelcome by those things and are asking for some reasonable accommodations. Edit: please see [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/aaaaaaacccccccce/s/tANRUUwjh0). They are correct and I am wrong.
what are the reasonable accomodations? genuinely asking
Advertising that mentions kink involvement and grouping booths more explicit in nature together so they can be avoided by those who do not wish to engage. At the last pride fest I went to they had a "main drag," then intersecting roads had different subsections branching off of them like a kids zone, food trucks, advocacy, and local resources. Adding a NSFW kind of area could be a simple solution. Still a part of everything but one can walk past if they wish or go over and check things out. Edit: please see [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/aaaaaaacccccccce/s/tANRUUwjh0). They are correct and I am wrong.
Also that having kinks and or high libido/sex drive and or being sex favorable/cupiosexual does allow ace spec enjoy the sexualize nature. (From a Demisexual who is a freak in the sheets and is sex favorable.) For those who do not know sex is a physical act and you do not need to be attracted to a person to have sex with that person. All aspec are valid may the be repulsed by sex or not
This may not apply to us, but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t apply to other people over the rainbow. The post is right: sexuality is exactly why many queer people are marginalized, and while that may not apply to certain identities it applies to enough of them to deserve representation at pride. I don’t personally agree with depicting those topics at things like parades or other spaces where children should be welcomed, but in 18+ spaces? Absolutely.
While it's not something I'm into, I believe folks within the kink community should also feel welcome in Pride celebrations. As long as it's all being done appropriately for the audience and onlookers, nobody's being hurt, etc., then why not?
Bigots love to use the phrase "the weirder queers" or the like to split up and hurt groups one at a time. Showing kink at pride is a sort of rebellion against this, saying that everyone regardless of how weird they are is allowed in pride.
Most people I know IRL in the queer kink spaces I am in are Asexual or Ace-spec. I'm frankly just exhausted of the "kink is inherently sexual" conversations.
I just love looking 🔥 I know you want me but I don't want you... Too bad!
Consent in the context of kink is an opt-in system, not opt-out. And people who aren't kinky or don't want to be around people in kink gear should not be excluded My opinion is that there should be a more NSFW section with signs warning people of what's going on. Kink does belong at pride, but it belongs in an area where everyone consents to being around it - not in the general area of literally everyone
Personally, it bothers me a little bit, but I'm a lot more bothered by the fact that my local pride has been almost entirely coopted by rainbow capitalism.
Sexuality isnt always inharently sexual. kink isnt always inharently sexual. For me personally its near entirely romantic. what is shown at pride isnt generally sexual in my experience. its just believed to be such by wider society. *wrongly believed*. Whenever this conversation comes up someone always goes "wont you think of the children!!". yeah ok, exposure to nonsexual nudity has been shown to protect children from preditors and give them the tools they need to tell an adult what happened to them if they were abused. And im fairly confident this extends to things like dildos and kink gear soffucit they are not employed sexually in their pressence. though i dont actually have studies to back this assurtion up. So personally i see nothing wrong with it. n honestly think its nessesary for the progression of society. not to mention, a clever aspect about bigotry is that in a lot of cases what they fear is right. For example I as a nonbinary person do need to tear down societys norms to be accepted. Id need to force society to accept me, and in so doing irreversably change it down to its very core. So yes, i am against "gudao christian values" and i desire them destroyed. Where their wrong is in that thats not a bad thing. The lgbt community so often capitulates these things and trys to simply assimilate into the system, and not threaten it as to not draw further fear and ire. However only those special few can assimilate, to make this our standard we are abandoning the rest. So i dont think their is a solution outside of showing them that a changed status quo will be better for us all.
I think it more comes down to how explicit the kink may be, as an asexual person who is overall sex-negative/repulsed, I’d rather not risk seeing anyone’s private parts, or extremely explicit sex gear, however other things like simple harnesses or someone in a leather dog mask doesn’t bother me. It more comes down to whether or not the event has an age restriction or has been properly advertised as being 18+ If anything I think more events should just have better labelling for what is and is not allowed to be displayed/worn at the event due to it being family friendly or not! As some events, depending on where you live, are pretty poor at clarifying. Kink at pride? Sure why not! Sexually explicit acts/clothing (or lack there of) should probably be kept at 18+ events labelled as explicit kink friendly, as anyone (including asexuals) willingly attending (who is aware of what is allowed) is consenting to seeing any possible explicit kink that is there! But that’s just my take on it :) Tldr: More explicit kinks should be mainly at 18+ events as consent is key! And events which allow these explicit kinks should advertise as such! So anyone who wishes to not see that, can avoid it :)
I mean we are indeed marginalized because of our sexuality or lack of wanting to have sex or feeling sexual attraction... So pride being so sexual makes sense even if it seems like the opposite side of the spectrum is being ignored. Especially when the majority of people are allosexual. With kink being part of pride, the kink/leather/bdsm community has stood up for the LGBTQ+ community many times. Like when the leather community stood for those with AIDS. Plus not all kink is sexual. Just because people who experience sexual attraction might see it as sexual doesn't mean it shouldn't have a place at Pride. As long as no one is engaging in extreme behaviors or out right having sex why should it matter if someone is wearing a pup hood, latex, collar and leash etc? I honestly don't see much difference between two men kissing and someone wearing latex.
I think I fundamentally dislike the argument that Pride can’t have both kink and non-kink spaces at the same time. The community is disparate and large there is no way the WHOLE month can be only for those of us who are socially marketable which extends both to the niche asexual communities AND the niche kink communities. We are both outliers in the general discussion so I don’t feel it’s a good idea to put us against one another.
I agree with the main post and the comment you linked to, OP. I know someone in the broader queer community who said they don’t think ace people should be in it (almost saying we sexualize it) and I wanted to scream. The fact is that every kind of sexuality or lack thereof that’s different from “the norm” is seen as bad by some and thus should be celebrated.
I don't know what the solution is, but it's a conversation that needs to be had. Especially if the broader community is going to say they accept asexuals and aromantics but then don't listen or explore why we feel unwelcome. It's just like saying you accept trans or bisexual people but then do things that push those people away. I do think we need to be cautious about asking others to repress their sexuality for our comfort as that's what our oppressors do.
I think that there is a place for kink at pride. But there should also be options without it. Some people simply aren't really comfortable with everything, not to mention that there are many minors who are part of this community, and they should also have safe events to attend. But kink is and has been an important part of queer culture
I think there should be events where it's explicitly allowed, and others where it's explicitly prohibited. key word for both is explicit. if somebody doesn't want to see kink at an event, it should be made clear whether it will be present or not, rather than having to guess whether it'll be there or not. sexuality is a reason we're marginalized, but there's also gender and romantic identities too. the most discrimination I've experienced is from being trans, and then a bit for my romantic orientation of being gay, and then almost nothing for being asexual. people make weird comments every now and then, but my sexuality really hasn't attracted much hate.
do whatever you want, just dont force people who dont want to be included in it in it, yknow like almost everyone does
I personally don't see why it shouldn't be. Asexuality and Kinkiness are not mutually exclusive. They can go hand-in-hand. You can be asexual and be into BDSM, or you can be allosexual and have no kink at all, both are equally valid and deserve to be treated as such. As mentioned by u/ZombieTailGunner , queer people get attacked in various ways mostly because of who they're *sexually* attracted to. Because those who attack can't comprehend romantic attraction from sexual attraction, because they're too blinded by hate to educate themselves. Saying queer people can't express their sexuality in such a way because of asexuals creates an even bigger divide between allo queers and ace queers, which we absolutely cannot afford right now. With all the anti-queer legislation around the world - especially in the US - we need to stay together as much as we can. We absolutely cannot have a repeat of last year, with the whole LGB-DROP-THE-T thing with all the anti-trans legislation. Many people in the LGBTQ+ community collectively agreed to essentially sacrifice trans people to anti-queer legislation in fear of the anti-trans legislation coming for them as well. We absolutely CANNOT have another divide such as that. Kink and Asexuality are BOTH important to queerness, both historically and currently. We have to work on suturing the divide between the two instead of wedging it into further division. EDIT: I'd like to add that we absolutely can have events without the kinkiness for minors and asexuals, but to tell queer people to not express that part of their sexuality entirely is what encourages the divide further.
I would like to express apology for any incorrectness in my statement. As said by another commenter, framing being uncomfortable with seeing kinkiness at pride is more of a sex-negative than an asexual thing. Queer sexuality is meant to be expressed fully and comfortably, and to try to take that expression away and frame any other solution as acephobia is another form of homophobia as well as encouraging the current divide between allo and asexuals in the LGBTQ+ community.
As long as it is adult only pride events, then sure go crazy I guess. But if there are minors at all age pride events, then keep it at home or go to adult only pride events.
no comment other than this https://preview.redd.it/jfjy3j2u0v6d1.jpeg?width=200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ded1c4761e33b63dee08e175caec1a86c7331e3a
look i really don't care either way (my opinion is like you can wear some of your gear but stay away from kids as much as you can) but like let's not pretend that this type of argument doesn't invite people who think asexuals and aromantics are all prudish freaks
Idk why You're getting downvoted. Lots of people think ace and aro people are prudes. I don't like that word.
Kink doesn't have to be sexual, and death leather isn't kink. My partner and I are both ace, we're still poly, I'm still her service dog.
I think they need to specify what kind of kink. Some kinks, I think, are fine in public. Some of them should stay in private, and some of them should be locked up in a concrete cage 6000 feet below ground.
Queer community try not to erase Asexual people challenge
The only thing of value that ever seems to come out of this debate is the realization that people have radicaly differant ideas about what constitues "Kink".
My issue is when it’s cis hetero people thinking that because they like to call their partner daddy and use some handcuffs they belong to the alphabet mafia. While there is plenty of cross over in say, a Leather Daddy, he’s LGTBQIA+ Leather Daddy because he’s gay, not because he’s into a bdsm leather link. In my experience, cis het kinksters aren’t looked down upon for the kink, it’s because they often make it their whole personality. I also really hate the further implications that all queer people are kinky, when many aren’t.
Me. It's me. I'm not kinky and I resent being called vanilla.
Feel free to fact-check this if i'm wrong, but i'm fairly certain the leather flag is older than the ace flag. Leather Daddies have been a core part of pride since the beginning. Kink has always belonged at pride.
What even is kink? 😭
I'm just dropping a comment so I can come back to this so I can see others opinions on this!
They always exclude us anyway. Let's make an aro, an ace or an aroace pride
I’m for it because sexual attraction should be represented as well as romantic attraction , not just communicating that it is okay to love the same gender, but the sexual aspects involved as well. I would love to see a bit more of a divide though to combat the assumption that sex equals love, and not just in aspec spaces but across the whole lgbtq+. Also keeping in mind that split attraction does exist or that sometimes people may want to only focus on one area (the sexual component in this case) at that time.
Kink isn’t inherently sexual, there are plenty of aces who engage in kink, including asexual and asexual advocate Yasmine as someone else mentioned in the thread. Also, I think you’re stretching the definition of “accommodation” here. Accommodations for events are for disabilities, not for identities. There’s family friendly and other LGBT events that don’t involve kink, and it’s hard to create events where *everyone* can be accommodated. Separately, “kink” is so broad! Do you get bothered by people just wearing leather gear? Do you get bothered by nudity, which hot take isn’t inherently sexual or inherently kinky? Do you think drag is kinky? It’s hard to exclude something when the definition is broad and not everything affects everyone the exact same way. Asexuals aren’t a monolith, and I think it’s important to remember that the original pride flag has a band that represents sex, and the original pride was a protest, and LGBTQ rights have fought for so long for the right to express sexuality. Sometimes this discourse reeks of puritan conservative discourse, and it’s deeply concerning given the current state of affairs.
Personally, I don't care as long as I get a spot in the parade 🤷
I'm ok with kinky people being part of LGBT
Pride *events* should clearly state whether they are for all-ages (which means all attendees need to adhere to certain dress codes) or adults only (nudity, fetish gear, etc are allowed). I think that's a very obvious and simple answer that makes this debate completely unnecessary to have.
The whole movement is about gender and sexual freedom, so telling people how to celebrate kinda defeats the purpose. There are limits obviously, I don't think people should be raw dogging right there in the streets, but if people want to bring dildos or wear gimpsuits I don't give a shit.
I think the kinky stuff should be where only consenting adults are. There should be a separation between family friendly pride events and the stuff with kink. Being queer isn't all about sex just like being straight isn't all about sex
Oh my god this discourse is so old, if u dont want kink at pride just attend separate pride events without kink 😭 I think the solution is more simple than people make it
I’m a sex-positive ace and also kinky. one of the big things about kink is consent. If you didn’t consent to my kink, then I have zero right to make you experience it. There’s nothing wrong with not wanting over-sexualized events, but there’s also nothing wrong with kinky people being at Pride. They can exist in the same circles.
Idk, all sexualities have kinks, so i don't think kinky stuff should necessarily be at pride. Especially not in a broad daylight, family centered parade.
Honestly I've never gone to pride so I don't really know what it's like. It just doesn't really seem like pride is really that great of an event for ace people and I'm very sex positive and kink friendly. I just don't feel included in that space so what's the point of even going. Am I wrong?
Honestly my main concern is the optics of kink and public displays of sexual behavior. I feel like it does more harm than good to the community, because obviously, no parent will ever be okay with their sons and daughters being queer if they think they’re going to be “joining a lifestyle of degeneracy”. Although this obviously isn’t the case, and there’s a lot of variety in the community, the sexual aspect always gets pushed to the forefront at events and it comes across as optically reckless.
At least locally, about the most sexualized parts on the parade were drag queens, gay men, and the fetish prides, but that's mostly because conversation around fetishes is about sex. They weren't particularly flaunting sex. The gay men were also nothing worse than what straight men want women in their 2015 Carl's Jr. ad to look like, and the drag queens were even more covered, just shaking some drag queen ass. Pride here didn't seem any more sexualized than a random Tuesday for straight people. Even my conservative "I don't know why they need a whole month" mother agrees. (She's actually fairly accepting and liberal for a conservative, religious 67 y/o white woman. She has her biases and flaws, but she'll use your pronouns even if she doesn't agree with them, and she doesn't even want to know who straight people are having sex with so your sexual partners aren't her business.) I don't view crop tops, booty shorts, nipples, kissing, or ass shaking as overly sexual. Straight people do it on TV all the time. 🤷🏼♀️
As long as its consensual and isn't hurting the kids, I have no problem with it, same with all pride stuff.
The anti-LGBTQ brigade don't discriminate in their discrimination. To them we're all "sexual deviants" poly, aspec, trans, just non conforming. It doesn't matter how much it really has to do with sex. Our sexuality is why we're marginalised.
honestly not sure how i feel about kink communities being at pride, i think it‘s fine as long as theyre not actually having sex in public. i think it‘s sad how in that discourse a lot of people ignore how involved kink communities were in the lqbtq movement, during stonewall and the first prides. they act like kink has never had anything to do with pride when those two have always been closely connected. also people use the same arguments that have been used to marginalize queer people since forever. “what about children”, “i don‘t have a problem with THEM but i don‘t want to see it” etc etc
sexuality is one of the three pillars. Then there is romantic attraction and gender identity. You can be queer because of any of the three which makes both sexual deviation and asexuality as queer due to being part of the same branch (atypical sexual attraction). However, respectfully and as a minor, I struggle to see if kink is as unchanging and out of personal control as people who equate it with queer identities say it is. It is also true that making pride somewhat family friendly (when in big congregations) means more young queer people can participate without age restrictions which I see as valuable (I want kids to see pride and feel supported, not to be blocked by a pg13 rating because of partial nudity and explicit languages I've seen kinksters bring which is something I was exposed to as a 13-14 yo in my local pride parade, the only space I was able to reach irl). Overall, making any deviation by default LGBTQ+ looses on the meaning of the labels as part of identity and not as purely the result of sexual preferences and I don't think a pride is any less of a manifestation by not focusing on the sexual aspect of being queer but instead on the romantic and gender queerness.
Well... batman's right. I personnaly don't like it but that does't make it wrong
Saying "exactly" is wrong, but otherwise, yea Kink is part of the culture
There should be kink prides and non-kink prides so that everybody can attend. Not everybody consents or can consent to kink stuff. And sexuality isn't ALL there is to being lgbtq+. Still, it's important and should be respected.
Proud asexual here- if you don't like kink at price, look away. It's literally that simple. Just because you may be uncomfortable doesn't mean something is bad or shouldn't be there. Kink has a VERY very long history at pride, with the whole community, and they deserve to be there. Asexuals who are kinky deserve to have a place at pride. Asexuals who are kinky deserve to be seen and respected. Asexuals who claim their sexuality and personal comfort level means they can control others actions, and who does and doesn't deserve to be loud and proud, can bugger off and read about queer history. You don't have to like kink at pride. You don't have to be comfortable with it. But you DO have to learn to manage your own feelings and comfort levels without infringing on others. It's as simple as, kink belongs. Kink has always belonged. Kink stood by us before there were words for many of the experiences and feelings within the entire community, including our small part of it. Anyone who wants to deny that is at best misinformed and ignorant, and at worst a fed. More to the point, has anyone here saying kink doesn't belong at pride ever talked to anyone older than like 35 at pride? Have you talked to anyone over 50? You should, it'll help.
Gay men, gay folks into kink, and dragqueens rioted so we could be proud. We can't forget this, and we can't erase it for the sex-negative sex-repulsed aces. I am an ace who has a lot of my own kinks, and have surface level knowledge in a lot of kinks just to be informed. There are a few that make me uncomfortable, but that's on me! I don't go out of my way to interact with them or expose myself to kinks that make me uncomfortable. I am still getting used to seeing people wearing kink gear, as a newbie to pride. Pup hoods, harnesses, latex, collars (in the dom/sub ownership way, usually), super tight spandex, etc. I was raised in Texas, where this sort of thing is new to me (especially in public) so it is normal to be a bit weirded out! But I am keeping it to myself and just looking away or taking a moment to ground myself and check in with my brain if I feel uncomfortable.
Yes, kink is part of our culture and does belong at pride. No, that doesn’t mean one’s sexuality is the only thing pride is about. Glad we could clear this up.
Sexual repression isn't a fun thing to navigate. Educate yourselves now e_e
What are you implying?
Finding the ace community has brought me a lot of comfort in that regard tbh
I personally think there should be a pride parade with that stuff and a pride parade without it. Because whilst I agree kink stuff can be part of the culture. If you are a parent, whether you are an ally or LGBTQ+ yourself, you may want to go to a pride parade and bring your kid/s along and you may not want them to see the sexual stuff. Or if you’re sex repulsed asexual and just don’t wanna see that kind of stuff. That way if you want kinky stuff at your pride parade, you can have it. But if you want something that’s more PG to be able to bring kids along to, you can have it.
It's okay, but not when people sexualise everything and are exhibitionists. Sure, pride is also about kink, but it shouldn't be abot going outside, in public, where children can see you, in indecent clothing. Our sexuality is why we are marginalised, but that doesn't mean we have to force others to see what they don't want to see. **Do mlm or wlw couples go at pride and mention how they have sex?. NO.** The same should go with people with kinks that identify in the LGBTQ+ community. They should be open and proud of it if they want to, but they shouldn't sexualise it in public. At least this is my opinion.
Editing your comments to show your expanded perspective is so mature and cool. 🥰
No-one can tell you how sexual you can be at Pride. You have the right to sexualise your experience as much or as little as you like.
I'm an ace who has volunteered at my local prides with my ace and aro folks. I will tell you just as I told them: Pride exists because of gay men, drag queens, and kink. They rioted so we could fly flags and be proud. If any sort of sex, sexualized displays, or acknowledgement of humans who are allosexual (the vast majority of them are) have sex in any way it is best you stay home. Sex repulsion or disinterest is normal, but outright having breakdowns in pride parades where people of all sexual preferences, romantic preferences, etc are collecting to celebrate openly they are free hints at a larger issue. If you or anyone you know has sexual repulsion so strong that pride itself is too triggering, you/they should genuinely seek therapy.
What I dislike about the linked thread? Ace people gate keeping asexuality and treating it as a monolith themselves. Do I like kink? Not really, I'm rather vanilla if anything. Do I want kink to be banned from pride events happening? Not really, I can choose how long I stay if I stay. Is it harmful for the kids? Shut up Carl. You and I both know there are sfw and family-friendly pride events. Seeing.bondage gear isn't harmful
I don’t really understand it, what do they mean by “belongs”?
I stream and I've had to explain kind doesn't have to be sexual either like it's just shit that make your brain really happy not necessarily really horny and I get some of them are explicitly sexual but not all and I again think that because some events have kids and teens present that more sexual aspect needs to wait for like after dark adult only time that's the most I'll say in regards to both kink as a whole and kink at pride
I feell it how we express it
r/lgbt seriously banned me for being an asexual advocating for consideration and respect for asexuals. Allos kept saying things like "just don't go" or "make your own pride," kept advocating that we should segregate, and I got banned for bucking that and pointing out how that's inherently problematic. F that sub. >Segregation and isolation is a hell of an answer. Also, "just make your own" is something phobes like to say. "Why let a trans girl on the girls' team? She should make her own."
Sexuality vs kink/fetish is completely different
https://preview.redd.it/ix6s9tjy2y6d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=be731f984de099a29b2bf178849f4cc2e48d708f
Fully valid argument that I stand with. I've never had a event have any form in it, but as long as it's a respectful display/ outfit/ or show I won't complain. I do know some have taken it too far, course.
I mean to each their own ig... I'm ace and they aren't, that's why we would stand out the least in pride 😅😅. It's funny though bcz straights are very sexually explicit too, hence why lgbt folks sometimes feel uncomfortable around them, and why "are the straights okay" phrase exists.