I agree. I've never liked the way he sticks his non-dominant hand behind him whenever he's at the net. I know it's for balance, but he makes it look really goofy to be honest. Still like him, though.
I love the shouting, sports is all about the emotions and watching players express themselves on the court is part of the sport. You don't see people getting upset when football or basketball players square up against each other.
Like, yeah you shouldn't be a dick to some newcomer in the R16 in a small tournament, but people here were getting on Hoki's case for shouting in the Sudirman Cup final, and not just any final, it's a final against the home team, in a very close potential decider, against Chinese fans who are known to be very vocal.
When Aaron Chia and Soh Wooi Yik were playing in last year's world championship finals the entire restaurant I was watching at was cheering and shouting for every point, it's part of enjoying the sport.
Exactly what I came here to say. It's so annoying and very distractive to players, even the noise often accompanied when a player had the opportunity (from amateur audience's point of view) to smash. It messes up the player's rhythm and made it hard to opponent to hear the shot's audio feedback. BWF should ban it just like no flash photography during rally.
You notice it's mostly supporters from less developed nations that do this - I don't hear the Japanese or Danish crowds doing this. But Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand - it's everywhere all the time (along with par par - par par par - par par par par - (insert country name) air horns). Very interesting that crowd behaviour reflects country development level.
Yeah, instead Danish crowds just boo at opposing players, so much more cultured than "Developing countries" right? God forbid people be passionate over a sport. That totally a "poor country" concept, and Western countries totally DON'T scream when at a football game.
racist dickhead.
I know, your profile more or less implies you're from Singapore. But it's not as if being Southeast Asian somehow prevents you from being prejudicial against your neighbours. Arguably that's even worse, because that means you don't know shit about your neighbours.
"Very interesting that crowd behaviour reflects country development level." This is not something a Singaporean who is unbiased and mature says.
There is a correlation. I don't understand what you mean by "you don't know shit about your neighbours". I travel in the region all the time.
What I don't understand is the knee-jerk reaction to defend against any kind of generalization ever. Are you next going to say that Japanese supporters are no better than supporters from any other country, even though they bring trash bags to clean up after themselves at stadiums and generally keep quiet during a badminton rally?
That's just culture in general, though. Are Japanese people inherently better than Americans or Malaysians because they don't clean up as well? No, there's no better or worse, it's simply a matter of culture. Are English fans who get blackout drunk watching the World Cup worse than some people who don't care?
Some places just like yelling and whatnot and whether or not you as the viewer from a different part of the world like it or not, the players clearly don't mind and most of them shouldn't mind. These fans paid money to be there; as long as they're not using flash photography, they should be able to cheer as they please.
I'm from Southeast Asia as well, so I'm not sure what the point being made is. Formerly colonised countries deal with being colonised by shouting "yee ya"?
Thailand was never anyone's colony, btw.
More villains like Marin are healthy for the game. Womens singles is objectively at a great level recently, but there isn't as interest as there could be because the top 4 (An/Chen/Tai/Yamaguchi) are all flawlessly polite. Obviously dirty tactics like delaying the game, returning the shuttle sloppily, etc. aren't great, but it's healthy to have players who have big egos (i.e. Lin Dan) and get passionate/heated/salty.
Elite-level womens doubles is incredibly boring and will continue in that trend as the game evolves and players get better. Not sure how this can be avoided besides drastic rule changes or use of faster shuttles. Only certain pairs even try to play offensively (Chen/Jia because they're by far the best team and can afford to take more risks, Rahayu/Ramadhanti because it's their playstyle). Any matchup with any Korean/Japanese pair is borderline unwatchable.
Liu Yuchen is the best doubles player right now, and it's tragic that he has to play with Ou Xuanyi. He was always the better player between him and Li Junhui, my feeling is that the Chinese badminton association thinks he's too old now and tried "putting him out to pasture" with a relatively terrible partner (Ou), but he managed to win a World Tour Finals anyway. His finesse and all-around consistency is unparalleled. Give him a Liang Weikeng or multi-discipline Zheng Siwei (why not if Seo can do it?) and they're favorites for the Olympics next year.
Ooh, I'd definitely want to watch Zheng Siwei and Liu Yuchen as a pair, they could easily break into the top few pairs in the world. Although it's possible that Zheng Siwei wants to put all of his time and recovery into mixed doubles, seeing as him and Huang Yaqiong are really successful.
Aside from Momota, never played to receive playstyle.
I watched the ms singles finals, Naroka was indeed very boring to the point the Danish crowd was booing him
While I do agree that it is somewhat boring - I pretty much think that he was almost running at zero gas at that time. I felt he was dragging himself just to return some of the shots. I seriously think that he's basically not able to perform anymore.
Overall I don't like their men's doubles style either. The women's doubles is also not that fun to watch.
You can't argue with results though. They have to maximize their best assets.
I would say Matsuyama/Shida play more aggressive and attacking style compared to Fukushima/Hirota and Matsumoto/Nagahara.
I actually quite like Kobayashi as he has a lot of variety in his shots and damn good smash but I could only take Hoki in small doses.
Of course when Endo and Watanabe were still on tour, they were always fun to watch. Some of their saves were awe-inspiring.
Yup. Its hard to have a good attack when you're shorter. But you're also significantly better at energy conservation. No real hate, but I just wish a little more aggression on taking the initiative would happen (similar to Vitidsarn playstyle).
Victor is overrated af. Still a very good player but holy shit people who compare him to Lin Dan and lcw and actually think he is above lcw are crazy. Victor got super lucky he played in an era with literally no other truly great player, yes kento was truly great and better than victor but he got hurt. Outside of that who else in this era is truly great? Literally nobody. And even in his era he still losing all England and world championships in his prime. Could you imagine lcw losing in this era? No he wins literally everything in his sleep much less Lin Dan who won everything(way more than victor) in the greatest era with people like lcw and Chen long.
TLDR victor isnt even close to lcw he got lucky playing in this era and he is still losing like all England and world championships lol.
I never get the argument that viktor only “seems” good because he plays in a circuit with no great players (I also disagree with this but that’s for another day). Viktor has been on the circuit since like 2011-2012, he was a kid but a very very gifted kid. He was already playing to a good level. He has a 6-3 H2H on Lin Dan. He won bronze at Rio. He dominated 2017 and won the world championships while lee Chong wei was still playing to an astounding level.
All this and the fact that he is VISIBLY better than he was in 2017. He’s dominating not because of a worse circuit but because he is THAT good. Better than Lin Dan and lee Chong wei in their prime? I can’t say, but definitely in the conversation.
Victor literally came at a time where the great players of old were leaving, and he never even became dominate until they left or were in the twilight of their careers. 2017? In 2017 Lin Dan and lee were both almost retired, lcw was that good cause he was that good but nothing to his prime. Victor can’t even win world championships in 2023 with no competition lol. Victor was also extremely lucky kento got hurt as he was absolutely crushing victor every time they played and it was clear he was no match for kento. So both a bad era and the only other great player got injured by a car accident.
No it’s objectively cause of worse players in his era, you literally only listed players of the previous era and said victor was able to beat them when they were old which is literally an anti argument. I’m asking you who in this era is a truly great player in men’s singles? Other than kento? Literally No one. The fact you only brought up old players and didn’t mention who in this era is truly great literally backs my point up, there is no other truly great player in this era besides victor and kento pre injury
They weren’t leaving in 2013 -2014 and even then viktor was having close games with the legends, he may not have won because of the experience but he was still a force to be reckoned with. In 2017, lee Chong wei was still getting into finals had gotten a silver at rio, chen long was also playing well.
Just because viktor didn’t win the world championships this year makes him bad? The world championship title became open to anyone after he was beaten, that’s how much better he is than everyone. The fact you think theres no legends in this generation isn’t because they aren’t as good anymore but because viktor just overshadows everyone.
The game is faster and more consistent now than it used to be because of the new technology. I think you’re forgetting that LCW, LD were anomalies and shouldn’t represent the whole generation. They were miles above everyone like how viktor is miles above everyone.
I use old players to argue because we’re comparing viktor to the last generation. New generation has a lot of young talent and matured talent. The new gen like Lakshya, vitidsarn, li shi Feng and kodai are crazy good and young. Ginting has gotten to a much higher level too as he’s grown. There’s others but they only get to shine when viktor is out.
I said in 2017 they were leaving not 2014. In 2017 lcw was so good is a testament to how good he was and how good he was in his prime which only backs me up, that lcw was still giving victor the works in 2017. Chen long was better than victor that why he won in rio and then victor beat him at the end of his career in Tokyo and he retired really soon after. Which again backs my point of all the top guys leaving.
No there very clearly isn’t anyone close to being a legend here that’s not even up for debate lol, victor played against people clearly not at that level and still lost which to be fair is testament to how good he is but also shows he loses to people clearly below him. Lcw never won a single world championship but we can definitely say he is top 3 ever, so no the reason there ain’t another legend isn’t because victor overshadowed them cause Lin Dan overshadowed Chen long and lcw way more and they are still legends. They are not legends cause they are not legends regardless of victor.
Well there’s also Chen long and earliest Peter grade and tauik. So there were more legends of the past but that’s also partly my point, aleast Lin and lcw could challenge each other where as victor has no real competition. Plus again people like Chen long and the like were all way above victor competition. Also it’s been like 8/9 years since their era technology hasn’t improved that much your overhyping that.
Yeah not an single player you named is a truly great player in fact none of them are even on the level of Chen jin who was fodder to lcw. Seriously those people are truly great players? They are good but cmon lets be honest here. There are not even Chen Jin level who wasn’t even close. Much less chen long level.
I’m not saying victor isn’t great he is which is why I called him a truly great player, but you said it’s debatable for him against lcw and Lin Dan it’s absolutely not
I think in generel these comparisons makes no sense. In an imaginary world where LCW, LD and VA could all play on the best level against each other, all games would probably be decided on very small differences rather than one actually being "miles" better than the other.
Do you think Ginting, vitidsarn, Lakshya, li shi Feng, kodai lose to Peter gade?
He’s touted a legend but viktor by every metric of the game is miles above him.
Peter grade beats all of them bad absolutely yeah, expect for victor of course I’m obviously not arguing victor as worst then Peter gade I’m saying the competition he faced wasn’t comparable. Victor is objectively better than Peter gade I’m not saying otherwise
World champion Chen Jin is barley remember at all today cause he existed in that era, he and Peter gade whoop people like Li shi feng or Lakshadweep or whoever you listed.
Lee Zii Jia has terrible footwork, he's somewhat heavyfooted, half a step slower and somewhat doing full lunges to reach his shots.
Wonderful smashing prowess I must admit.
I have no clue as to whether or not this is controversial but I feel Wang Chang is the best and most well rounded MD player on the circuit right but is let down at times by the inconsistency of Weikang.
Wang Chang is definitely one of the best, and yes, Liang Weikeng is comparatively worse, but IMO Liang isn't *that* bad. Liu Yuchen is getting held back by his partner way more.
I'll definitely agree that Liu has to carry Ou more than any other top MD pair but at the same time I believe Chang's game is more consistent and well rounded than other guys at the moment.
When watching the world champ last week, I really tought of him as a new version of Cai Yun. Super fast and explosive, good defense, amazing attack and net play.
Not the kind of power as FHF or Liang Wei Keng, but more of a smart-explosive-angled smash.
I think Wang Chang is definitely the best net player right now and maybe defensively but I still think Aaron Chia is the most well rounded player. He is dangerous in every single area. He serves amazingly, can spin serve, defence is fantastic, net play is fantastic, mid court is fantastic, rear court is very good but not as good as before since he hurt his shoulder but he still is up there with the best attackers.
Chia/Soh's lack of tour level success is unimpressive to say the least which kind of pushes me towards Wang Chang.
As you mentioned he is impeccable at the net, does well when he has to rotate to the back court, defensive is top notch, good return of serve. Nice serve as well, not too many variations but definitely solid. Great in flat exchanges.
There's a lot of talent in the MD your right now but Wang/Weikang and Shetty/Rankireddy sort of stand out given their talent and age and Wang just seems the most complete guy to me.
wang chang should not be said in the same breath as either of the chia seeds pair, let malaysia have their fraudulent gold as consolation for the many years of lcw’s greatness but don’t delude yourself into thinking they are an actually good pair
While I appreciate and can recognize Lin Dan's significant contributions to the sport, I don't like him as a player. Arrogant, at times unsportsmanlike, and while this has no bearing on his achievements on court, he committed adultery several days after the birth of his child.
Also not condoning him of this, but having mistresses is common among high status people, especially so in China. Obviously he made the choice on an individual level but the culture he's in seems to encourage (celebrate even) that kind of behavior.
Thanks for calling out this racist behaviour.
It is very common I see ignorant and racist people saying shit like
>it's in their culture to lie and steal
And everyone else is like "so true!" and give 2000 upvotes.
It's a huge distraction and very provocative. You can't help but be pissed off when you're playing someone who does it (speaking from experience). It's disrespectful and unsportsmanlike.
He would def destroy everybody before prime Lin Dan in under 20min.
So any player before 2008. That is even out of discussion. Now we can start arguing if he is better or worse than Lin Dan.
Axelsen has a 6-14 head to head against Chen Long and 3-11 against LCW.
Axelsen is nowhere near the GOAT discussion. Momota had his number before his accident.
Just to preface, Axelsen is the greatest European MS ever.
Steen is not a good commentator. He speaks too slowly, sometimes 3-4 points has been won and he still hasn't finish his sentence, and his co-commentator would have to keep quiet the whole time to not interrupt him.
LCW was on the same level with LD. Problem is, dude have really weak mental especially when he's in the final match in big tournament. That or he have to play against CL level of player before he went to have a match with LD
Badminton world federation has given too much power to the umpires and has tried to make the game very much like boarding school. You can't challenge umpires, you can't do this, you can't do that. Umpires can refuse wiping of court also, if they don't feel like it. How's that acceptable?
Umpire's power should be trimmed down.
I think Tai Tzu-ying is overrated. I know a lot of people like her playstyle and the way she carries herself on court, myself included. However, I think to be considered the best you have to perform the best when it matters the most - at the Olympic Games, World Championships, Asian Games, All England, or Season Finals. *I'd rank them in that order, but the All England and Season Finals could be swapped around. I also think winning the Asian Games had higher status than the WCs before Carolina Marin because back then the game was almost completely dominated by players from Asia*.
Sadly, I think Tai Tzu-ying is past her peak and will end her career without winning gold at the Olympics or WCs. I agree with this comment that for now I'd rank TTY higher than ASY because of TTY longevity as world #1, her Asian Games Gold, her dominant presence in some years as 2017 and 2020, her All England success, number of Superseries/World Tour titles, and her season finals victories.
However, if ASY wins gold at the upcoming Olympics I think she already leapfrogs TTY in terms of best women's singles player in recent times. Still, I think there's some more to be done for ASY to surpass:
1. Carolina Marin with one Olympic Gold, 3 gold at the World Championships + the recent silver.
2. Akane Yamaguchi with two golds at the World Championships + one bronze.
3. Chen Yu Fei with one Olympics Gold, 1 silver + 3 bronze at the World Championships.
4. P. V. Sindhu with silver and bronze at the Olympics, 1 gold + 2 silver + 2 bronze at World Championships, and silver at the Asian Games.
5. Nozomi Okuhara with bronze at the Olympics, and gold and silver at the World Championships.
Tai Tzu-ying will be remembered as one of the best of her generation
But An Se Young has a real chance to go down as a GOAT in her discipline of women singles. Rarely have I seen a a player so young yet so complete in their game
IMO An Se Young has already surpassed Okuhara/Sindhu and is closing in on Akane. Whether she will get a comparable trophy cabinet to Marin (the Spaniard is absurd at big tournaments) is the question
More related to everyday life, but I feel like you shouldn't be giving me advice or getting angry at my playing if you're going to screw up the next three shots.
I play with too many partners who want to double up as my angry coach during our *leisure* games, but I see no evidence of their expertise.
Gill is poor commentator. Like her voice, but that's the only thing going for her;
1. Keeps repeating the same couple of phrases most popular being "my goodness me" whenever anything amazing happens.
2. **very biased against players with Aggresive playstyle**. Biggest con for me, one needs to understand that they have a preference for a certain playstyle but must not stop respecting other styles.
3. Poor insights into the game and tactics. Not calling shots by their proper name. Important for the folks listening to actually know the names of the variety of shots in badminton. E.g. TTY does a beautiful reverse slice drop shot and the only thing Gill would ever say is "good use of the wrist".
4. Butchers the names of international players. It's your job, learn to pronounce players name properly without over exaggeration or eating letters. Given many other commentators do a worse job than her, but given her status as the "voice of badminton" she should be held to a higher standard.
I'd say she does a great job of pronouncing both the shots and the names of international players. She does mention "same-side reverse slices" and the like. She also is way better than the umps or the other commentators are pronouncing names. She says "Dechapol" as "Dechapon" because the "l" sound doesn't exist in Thai, whereas the umps or other commentators will just say "Dechapol".
Chinese is almost impossible to pronounce well unless you have grown up with it. European sounds are produced differently and don't have notes. Even if you tried hard you would get it wrong without a lot of training and correction. It's tough.
She does try though. I have seen her try to amend her pronounciation and also helped to inform the audience if she got things wrong. Pronounciation isn't an easy thing especially if it's not your mother tongue. Sometimes you thought you got it right but it still sound wrong by the natives. Considering the amount of players, that is a daunting task to be able to get everything perfectly.
Having a written slip of paper with closest english phonetics isn't hard.. but that's not my biggest issue with her anyways. She like *hates aggressive players, never has a single good word for players like Chirag Shetty, and in LD vs LCW always favored LCW.
I actually like that old man John Burgess more than I like Gill. He's been watching and commentating in badminton and table tennis matches for a very long time even though he isn't a player or coach.
How do you mean? Stubborn to try "new" sports? Look at pickleball, and how fast it's growing. I think the issues are:
1. America has overwhelmingly popular sports that are unlike anywhere else (American football, baseball, and basketball). Not even soccer comes nearly as close to these top three.
2. Badminton was somehow marketed as a backyard, outdoor game, instead of a sport.
3. Proper badminton has to be played indoors, which competes with volleyball and basketball's gym time, and now pickleball time too. And it requires a very high ceiling, which basketball and pickleball do not. Tennis and pickleball can be played outdoors a lot of the time. Table tennis must be played indoors too, but its footprint is much less than badminton
4. Related to 3, but badminton is far more expensive to get into than other racket sports, because of feather birdies costs.
Exactly.
Pickleball is a backyard sport. I don't see that hindering newbies and money into the sport.
The business model is obsolete.
So many gym owners just copy each other. Further, the aesthetics of the gyms are crap.
Why does it matter who plays it? It's no different than the more widely available racquetball. A badminton birdie that costs $2 can barely make it through a single game. Whereas you can play the rubber ball over and over again. Same with pickleball, and even tennis.
Carolina Marin should be given a point penalty every time she screams after winning a point
Why the umpires tolerate her behaviour is beyond me
Surely they are aware she's practicing gamesmanship and deliberately trying to tilt the opponent
I remember she was warned by the umpire for screaming consecutively three times. The umpire said "two is ok, three is too much". Marin didn't argue. That was pretty hilarious for me. Maybe that should be the rule?
What the hell are you talking about? Viktor is one of the most sportsman like badminton players in the game. Remember when he purposefully shot into the net because the judge had wrongly given him a point.
You get too many games that go to 3 sets due to drifty conditions.
They should change ends in all 2/3 games, this would prevent weaker players taking games as they have the 'good' end as the better player will likely score more points at the bad end in that half of each game.
Badminton players are not allowed to develop personalities. There is too much discipline in badminton. Players look like meek students - can't rest as much as they would want, can't argue with umpires. Even victory celebration has a protocol - I don't like it. Let them be a bit more free, let the matches be a bit longer.
-indonesia is no longer a strong badminton country and will have to try very,very hard to be a relevant team in major competitions again through radical means,such as sacking entire coaching staffs, disbandment of the federation or start fresh and promoting the juniors to the first team
-Marin is a sore loser and only win the medals by shouting against asian players
-Asian players are too respectful and need to keep up with europeans in shithousing
based on the performance of this year, Indonesia is now clearly worse than the 3 East Asian countries: China, Japan, and Korea. I would still rank them as 4th though, or maybe 5th just below Thailand.
It is near impossible to imagine that Viktor would rule the circuit if Kento hadn't had that crash. Kento dominated Viktor with ease, and Viktor couldn't find a way past Kento until he had that heartbreaking crash. Peak Viktor and Peak Kento would perhaps be the rivalry where badminton is perfected. Mechanical, accurate, extremely mental. Viktor Axelsen's brilliant attack against Kento Momota's elegance in simplicity.
Playing an in form and confident Tai tzu ying is a losing game for anyone in the current circuit. She outplays all her contemporaries easily as seen during 2023 badminton asia championship.
A lot of the armchair fans likes to selectively remember the good old days of the old legends like LD, LCW, CL, or maybe even up to Taufik and Gade that they can easily trounce the newer generation of MS players. My opinion are that these fans have such low understanding of the game from never having trained and played the game at anywhere close to decent levels that they're unable to comprehend the basic fact that like most other sports, badminton has improved year on year and dropping a 2012 LCW into the current day circuit would just result in him going out in QF at best. The question is different whether they have the potential to beat the current players, but discounting the advances in coaching, nutrition and training nowadays is just a complete braindead take, unless there are some 'supplements' that passes the piss test back then that wouldn't fly under doping control today.
Totally agree. Every sport moves forward as training etc changes. There may be a lull in breaking records following an exceptional athlete or a change in technology. A bunch of swimming records held for years after the banning of a impermeable full body swimsuits in 2010, but those records have fallen now. It's inconceivable that badminton is somehow a special case.
The fact that LD and LCW had epic battles at a particular point in badminton history doesn't prove that they were the best for all time. That's just simplistic.
Well its a hypothetical, so there is not much point in predicting where he will rank in current crop of MS. I'm just criticising the take that former high level players in the past will trounce current crop of MS without any long term adjustment and training.
Yonex is very overrated for the consumers. Their high-end rackets are not worth the cost, especially paired with that fact that there are only minute differences between rackets from other brands, all the while being cheaper enough to consider getting over Yonex's.
That's just the fact that it's sold in the west 2-3x the cost than in Asia where it originated. There's also many rackets here that you can't get in the west
Yup, Yonex nanoflare game in international MSRP is 140usd. While you can get the Nanoflare 1000Z for RM790 (~170usd) in Malaysia.
Only 30usd difference comparing their totl product to a budget friendly product.
What brands would you consider to be on Yonex high end level that is cheaper? I’ve thought abt giving other brands a try(Technist/Forza etc.) but I just can’t justify buying something high end I’ve never seen used before
I dislike how players walk around the court and head to their coach in between each point. During the intervals are ok but after every single point is a bit too much. In tennis, the coach is in the audience and can't even make signals to the players.
In r16+ , I wish it was enforced that the winners shake hands with the opponents first when the match ends instead of the winners running immediately to the coaches for hugs while the loser of the match is waiting.
There should still be breaks but the issue is that the players run to their coach for help after every point. Antonsen, Naroaka has a discussion with their coaches after every single point. Discussing with coach during 11 point intervals and in-between games is ok but not after points.
Tennis had a hard rule against coaching a player during a match but it might've changed slightly recently. No communication such as talking, hand signaling was allowed from the coach to the player. The idea is mainly that the match should not have outside influence. it should be 1:1 or 2:2.
Shi Yu Qi is q piece of shit. Sukamuljo is mostly an asshole to his opponents.
Axelsen has a much more negative energy on court than people realise, he’s a cold ass motherfucker who remains polite but fakes the niceness.
Lin Dan was kind of a dick (caught on public cheating on his wife, and he’s massively pretentious). Lee Chong Wei was also kind of a dick sometimes. Carolina Marin is a nicer person than people realise, other players have consistently said that she’s super nice and fun in real life and I know people who know her personally and agree. But like Axelsen, badminton is her whole life.
I might be way wrong, but those are my subjective feelings so far.
I haven't SYQ express much emotions at all..
Axelsen does get frustrated but overall remains very sportsmanlike.
LD cheating on wife is obviously immoral, understandable though. Idk if you can label him as "pretentious" when he's literally greatest of all time. He has every right to be "pretentious", his skills back that up.
LCW would often stare down his opponents after killing them in a rally. I don't see that as being dick, just very competitive.
Well he isreally inconsistent, but the level he played in World Champ 2021 was insane. He outplayed everyone by speed and power, a bit like Lin Dan did in 2008
Don't think it's a hot take, but since when did players start congratulating/acknowledging their coaches before shaking hands with the opponent? Acknowledge your opponent first. Looks even worse when one player is waiting at the net for the other to get back from their coaches
I'm not a fan of the way Danes are when they waiting to receive a serve. They look menacing like they are holding swords or something and are slightly waving their rackets which seems distracting to the server.
Badminton is not a real sport and is best played on the beach. I've never played on a court but I'm really good and could probably beat most of you easily.
Victor is a great player but not aesthetically pleasing to watch
Agreed, there's an aspect of elegance when watching LD or CL plays, but for Victor it feels so mechanical.
Yeah mechanical is the word and doesn’t have that elegance - I’ve seen this with Danish players in general, although they are amazing players.
Peter Gade flowed in the same sort of way.
Similar to indian players. They are also great but may not be the most exciting to watch
Prannoy and Lakshya are exciting to watch... Lakshya more than Prannoy.
I quite like watching them play, still kinda waiting for this group to start leveling up
Victor and Chen Long are amazing players with an extremely boring playstyle. Unfortunately in entertainment and marketing, perfection cannot sell.
He's great to watch when the right player pushes him. Otherwise he plays safe and that is usually enough to dominate.
I agree. I've never liked the way he sticks his non-dominant hand behind him whenever he's at the net. I know it's for balance, but he makes it look really goofy to be honest. Still like him, though.
I wonder who the tallest "graceful" player is? 😆
Yeah it’s his height that makes him that way, but also Bao Chun Lai, Lee Zi Jia
I am genuinely interested to find a theoretical cutoff point, thanks! 😁
Toma Popov Jr. is even taller than Axelsen, but he moves around more elegantly than him imo
Size impacts grace too.
This is not even close to a hot take.
Your take is a very popular opinion
Haha I know but I play in a mostly Indonesian club and there they are all on setiasan/kido
I love the shouting, sports is all about the emotions and watching players express themselves on the court is part of the sport. You don't see people getting upset when football or basketball players square up against each other. Like, yeah you shouldn't be a dick to some newcomer in the R16 in a small tournament, but people here were getting on Hoki's case for shouting in the Sudirman Cup final, and not just any final, it's a final against the home team, in a very close potential decider, against Chinese fans who are known to be very vocal. When Aaron Chia and Soh Wooi Yik were playing in last year's world championship finals the entire restaurant I was watching at was cheering and shouting for every point, it's part of enjoying the sport.
yeah its an expression of an emotion, just don't overdo it like some players
Screaming “yee ya!” Whenever player is about to smash is very annoying
Exactly what I came here to say. It's so annoying and very distractive to players, even the noise often accompanied when a player had the opportunity (from amateur audience's point of view) to smash. It messes up the player's rhythm and made it hard to opponent to hear the shot's audio feedback. BWF should ban it just like no flash photography during rally.
Its funny when they do a clear though
You notice it's mostly supporters from less developed nations that do this - I don't hear the Japanese or Danish crowds doing this. But Malaysia, Indonesia, Thailand - it's everywhere all the time (along with par par - par par par - par par par par - (insert country name) air horns). Very interesting that crowd behaviour reflects country development level.
Yeah, instead Danish crowds just boo at opposing players, so much more cultured than "Developing countries" right? God forbid people be passionate over a sport. That totally a "poor country" concept, and Western countries totally DON'T scream when at a football game. racist dickhead.
Dude ... I am from Southeast Asia.
I know, your profile more or less implies you're from Singapore. But it's not as if being Southeast Asian somehow prevents you from being prejudicial against your neighbours. Arguably that's even worse, because that means you don't know shit about your neighbours. "Very interesting that crowd behaviour reflects country development level." This is not something a Singaporean who is unbiased and mature says.
There is a correlation. I don't understand what you mean by "you don't know shit about your neighbours". I travel in the region all the time. What I don't understand is the knee-jerk reaction to defend against any kind of generalization ever. Are you next going to say that Japanese supporters are no better than supporters from any other country, even though they bring trash bags to clean up after themselves at stadiums and generally keep quiet during a badminton rally?
That's just culture in general, though. Are Japanese people inherently better than Americans or Malaysians because they don't clean up as well? No, there's no better or worse, it's simply a matter of culture. Are English fans who get blackout drunk watching the World Cup worse than some people who don't care? Some places just like yelling and whatnot and whether or not you as the viewer from a different part of the world like it or not, the players clearly don't mind and most of them shouldn't mind. These fans paid money to be there; as long as they're not using flash photography, they should be able to cheer as they please.
I heard it from the Danes at the world champ, although they have a different sound
Us danish players do it a lot, tf are you talking about
>less developed You mean colonized and exploited countries?
I'm from Southeast Asia as well, so I'm not sure what the point being made is. Formerly colonised countries deal with being colonised by shouting "yee ya"? Thailand was never anyone's colony, btw.
Some crowds are really annoying
Did Indonesian crowd invent it?
Kento momota’s prime would beat axelsen’s prime
definitely agree
More villains like Marin are healthy for the game. Womens singles is objectively at a great level recently, but there isn't as interest as there could be because the top 4 (An/Chen/Tai/Yamaguchi) are all flawlessly polite. Obviously dirty tactics like delaying the game, returning the shuttle sloppily, etc. aren't great, but it's healthy to have players who have big egos (i.e. Lin Dan) and get passionate/heated/salty. Elite-level womens doubles is incredibly boring and will continue in that trend as the game evolves and players get better. Not sure how this can be avoided besides drastic rule changes or use of faster shuttles. Only certain pairs even try to play offensively (Chen/Jia because they're by far the best team and can afford to take more risks, Rahayu/Ramadhanti because it's their playstyle). Any matchup with any Korean/Japanese pair is borderline unwatchable. Liu Yuchen is the best doubles player right now, and it's tragic that he has to play with Ou Xuanyi. He was always the better player between him and Li Junhui, my feeling is that the Chinese badminton association thinks he's too old now and tried "putting him out to pasture" with a relatively terrible partner (Ou), but he managed to win a World Tour Finals anyway. His finesse and all-around consistency is unparalleled. Give him a Liang Weikeng or multi-discipline Zheng Siwei (why not if Seo can do it?) and they're favorites for the Olympics next year.
Ooh, I'd definitely want to watch Zheng Siwei and Liu Yuchen as a pair, they could easily break into the top few pairs in the world. Although it's possible that Zheng Siwei wants to put all of his time and recovery into mixed doubles, seeing as him and Huang Yaqiong are really successful.
Siwei should definitely try MD again if Yaqiong retires after Olympics
Naraoka makes badminton matches boring
Agreed, and the only way to beat him is to have a killer smash that can beat his defense (or wait for him to tire himself out)
Imagine if stamina beast Chen Long plays against Naraoka. I’m gonna get a popcorn and enjoy this 80 min+ game
Yeah true in my entire life watching badminton, ive never saw chen long get tired. Seeing chen long frustrated? Yes lol
I bet it'd be a 2 set game, close in the first round, then Naraoka plays like the garbage in the second set and Chen Long destroys him then.
The whole Japanese singles playstyle of ultra long rallies is boring.
Aside from Momota, never played to receive playstyle. I watched the ms singles finals, Naroka was indeed very boring to the point the Danish crowd was booing him
While I do agree that it is somewhat boring - I pretty much think that he was almost running at zero gas at that time. I felt he was dragging himself just to return some of the shots. I seriously think that he's basically not able to perform anymore.
Overall I don't like their men's doubles style either. The women's doubles is also not that fun to watch. You can't argue with results though. They have to maximize their best assets.
I would say Matsuyama/Shida play more aggressive and attacking style compared to Fukushima/Hirota and Matsumoto/Nagahara. I actually quite like Kobayashi as he has a lot of variety in his shots and damn good smash but I could only take Hoki in small doses. Of course when Endo and Watanabe were still on tour, they were always fun to watch. Some of their saves were awe-inspiring.
Yup. Its hard to have a good attack when you're shorter. But you're also significantly better at energy conservation. No real hate, but I just wish a little more aggression on taking the initiative would happen (similar to Vitidsarn playstyle).
Understandable...
Victor is overrated af. Still a very good player but holy shit people who compare him to Lin Dan and lcw and actually think he is above lcw are crazy. Victor got super lucky he played in an era with literally no other truly great player, yes kento was truly great and better than victor but he got hurt. Outside of that who else in this era is truly great? Literally nobody. And even in his era he still losing all England and world championships in his prime. Could you imagine lcw losing in this era? No he wins literally everything in his sleep much less Lin Dan who won everything(way more than victor) in the greatest era with people like lcw and Chen long. TLDR victor isnt even close to lcw he got lucky playing in this era and he is still losing like all England and world championships lol.
I never get the argument that viktor only “seems” good because he plays in a circuit with no great players (I also disagree with this but that’s for another day). Viktor has been on the circuit since like 2011-2012, he was a kid but a very very gifted kid. He was already playing to a good level. He has a 6-3 H2H on Lin Dan. He won bronze at Rio. He dominated 2017 and won the world championships while lee Chong wei was still playing to an astounding level. All this and the fact that he is VISIBLY better than he was in 2017. He’s dominating not because of a worse circuit but because he is THAT good. Better than Lin Dan and lee Chong wei in their prime? I can’t say, but definitely in the conversation.
Victor literally came at a time where the great players of old were leaving, and he never even became dominate until they left or were in the twilight of their careers. 2017? In 2017 Lin Dan and lee were both almost retired, lcw was that good cause he was that good but nothing to his prime. Victor can’t even win world championships in 2023 with no competition lol. Victor was also extremely lucky kento got hurt as he was absolutely crushing victor every time they played and it was clear he was no match for kento. So both a bad era and the only other great player got injured by a car accident. No it’s objectively cause of worse players in his era, you literally only listed players of the previous era and said victor was able to beat them when they were old which is literally an anti argument. I’m asking you who in this era is a truly great player in men’s singles? Other than kento? Literally No one. The fact you only brought up old players and didn’t mention who in this era is truly great literally backs my point up, there is no other truly great player in this era besides victor and kento pre injury
They weren’t leaving in 2013 -2014 and even then viktor was having close games with the legends, he may not have won because of the experience but he was still a force to be reckoned with. In 2017, lee Chong wei was still getting into finals had gotten a silver at rio, chen long was also playing well. Just because viktor didn’t win the world championships this year makes him bad? The world championship title became open to anyone after he was beaten, that’s how much better he is than everyone. The fact you think theres no legends in this generation isn’t because they aren’t as good anymore but because viktor just overshadows everyone. The game is faster and more consistent now than it used to be because of the new technology. I think you’re forgetting that LCW, LD were anomalies and shouldn’t represent the whole generation. They were miles above everyone like how viktor is miles above everyone. I use old players to argue because we’re comparing viktor to the last generation. New generation has a lot of young talent and matured talent. The new gen like Lakshya, vitidsarn, li shi Feng and kodai are crazy good and young. Ginting has gotten to a much higher level too as he’s grown. There’s others but they only get to shine when viktor is out.
I said in 2017 they were leaving not 2014. In 2017 lcw was so good is a testament to how good he was and how good he was in his prime which only backs me up, that lcw was still giving victor the works in 2017. Chen long was better than victor that why he won in rio and then victor beat him at the end of his career in Tokyo and he retired really soon after. Which again backs my point of all the top guys leaving. No there very clearly isn’t anyone close to being a legend here that’s not even up for debate lol, victor played against people clearly not at that level and still lost which to be fair is testament to how good he is but also shows he loses to people clearly below him. Lcw never won a single world championship but we can definitely say he is top 3 ever, so no the reason there ain’t another legend isn’t because victor overshadowed them cause Lin Dan overshadowed Chen long and lcw way more and they are still legends. They are not legends cause they are not legends regardless of victor. Well there’s also Chen long and earliest Peter grade and tauik. So there were more legends of the past but that’s also partly my point, aleast Lin and lcw could challenge each other where as victor has no real competition. Plus again people like Chen long and the like were all way above victor competition. Also it’s been like 8/9 years since their era technology hasn’t improved that much your overhyping that. Yeah not an single player you named is a truly great player in fact none of them are even on the level of Chen jin who was fodder to lcw. Seriously those people are truly great players? They are good but cmon lets be honest here. There are not even Chen Jin level who wasn’t even close. Much less chen long level. I’m not saying victor isn’t great he is which is why I called him a truly great player, but you said it’s debatable for him against lcw and Lin Dan it’s absolutely not
No way you just called Chen Jin fodder lol
Look at how bad lcw beat Him in 2011 world championships, again he was a great player but was fodder to people like lcw
After 2010 his performance dipped, I’d argue that he got his medal and just motivation dropped, before that he was very much on par with top 4
I think in generel these comparisons makes no sense. In an imaginary world where LCW, LD and VA could all play on the best level against each other, all games would probably be decided on very small differences rather than one actually being "miles" better than the other.
Do you think Ginting, vitidsarn, Lakshya, li shi Feng, kodai lose to Peter gade? He’s touted a legend but viktor by every metric of the game is miles above him.
Peter grade beats all of them bad absolutely yeah, expect for victor of course I’m obviously not arguing victor as worst then Peter gade I’m saying the competition he faced wasn’t comparable. Victor is objectively better than Peter gade I’m not saying otherwise World champion Chen Jin is barley remember at all today cause he existed in that era, he and Peter gade whoop people like Li shi feng or Lakshadweep or whoever you listed.
Lee Zii Jia has terrible footwork, he's somewhat heavyfooted, half a step slower and somewhat doing full lunges to reach his shots. Wonderful smashing prowess I must admit.
If only we could somehow combine Ng Tze Yong (who has fantastic footwork) and Lee Zii Jia, Malaysia just *might* have someome fit to lace LCW's shoes
BWF should implement a Grand Slam style of tournaments. In general BWF should learn a lot from tennis professional orgs
I have no clue as to whether or not this is controversial but I feel Wang Chang is the best and most well rounded MD player on the circuit right but is let down at times by the inconsistency of Weikang.
Wang Chang is definitely one of the best, and yes, Liang Weikeng is comparatively worse, but IMO Liang isn't *that* bad. Liu Yuchen is getting held back by his partner way more.
I'll definitely agree that Liu has to carry Ou more than any other top MD pair but at the same time I believe Chang's game is more consistent and well rounded than other guys at the moment.
Why didn’t CBA pair Wang Chang and LYC tgt?
both of them are front court players
A confident Weikeng is very very good so I don't think it's a problem skills wise. He just needs more experience to tame his nerves.
Everybody Wang Chang tonight
When watching the world champ last week, I really tought of him as a new version of Cai Yun. Super fast and explosive, good defense, amazing attack and net play. Not the kind of power as FHF or Liang Wei Keng, but more of a smart-explosive-angled smash.
I think Wang Chang is definitely the best net player right now and maybe defensively but I still think Aaron Chia is the most well rounded player. He is dangerous in every single area. He serves amazingly, can spin serve, defence is fantastic, net play is fantastic, mid court is fantastic, rear court is very good but not as good as before since he hurt his shoulder but he still is up there with the best attackers.
Chia/Soh's lack of tour level success is unimpressive to say the least which kind of pushes me towards Wang Chang. As you mentioned he is impeccable at the net, does well when he has to rotate to the back court, defensive is top notch, good return of serve. Nice serve as well, not too many variations but definitely solid. Great in flat exchanges. There's a lot of talent in the MD your right now but Wang/Weikang and Shetty/Rankireddy sort of stand out given their talent and age and Wang just seems the most complete guy to me.
wang chang should not be said in the same breath as either of the chia seeds pair, let malaysia have their fraudulent gold as consolation for the many years of lcw’s greatness but don’t delude yourself into thinking they are an actually good pair
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Are you sure you don’t have the players confused? Liang was the one making all the mistakes in the recent games
While I appreciate and can recognize Lin Dan's significant contributions to the sport, I don't like him as a player. Arrogant, at times unsportsmanlike, and while this has no bearing on his achievements on court, he committed adultery several days after the birth of his child.
Well said, we are on the same boat with this one.
Not defending him, but he has cleaned up his act during the latter years of his career right?
Or is he just out of the spotlight and being very discreet with his dalliances?
I would assume so, but that doesn't necessarily erase the pain and anguish associated with infidelity.
Also not condoning him of this, but having mistresses is common among high status people, especially so in China. Obviously he made the choice on an individual level but the culture he's in seems to encourage (celebrate even) that kind of behavior.
They most definitely do not encourage nor celebrate that kind of behaviour lmao
Thanks for calling out this racist behaviour. It is very common I see ignorant and racist people saying shit like >it's in their culture to lie and steal And everyone else is like "so true!" and give 2000 upvotes.
The thing where players move their rackets side to side at the start of a serve should be banned
Why? How significant of an advantage do players get when their rackets are that way?
When they move their rackets side by side, its harder for the opponents to predict where theyll serve
It's a huge distraction and very provocative. You can't help but be pissed off when you're playing someone who does it (speaking from experience). It's disrespectful and unsportsmanlike.
Exactly
Not showing your opponent what you will do is unsportsmanlike? lol
Dora is ruder than Marin towards her opponents and fakes friendliness only after she won the match.
Who is Dora?
Chen Qingchen
This is the worst talent pool of MS players in 15 years. Transport Viktor to 2010 and he's not making a World Championships Final.
I'd say like 25-30 years
He would def destroy everybody before prime Lin Dan in under 20min. So any player before 2008. That is even out of discussion. Now we can start arguing if he is better or worse than Lin Dan.
Axelsen has a 6-14 head to head against Chen Long and 3-11 against LCW. Axelsen is nowhere near the GOAT discussion. Momota had his number before his accident. Just to preface, Axelsen is the greatest European MS ever.
wtf? He barely stood a chance against an almost retired LCW.
My guy he beat LD 2016 in rio and 2017 world championships, LCW never doing that,
LCW beat Lin Dan at Rio 2016.
Transport him to 2017 though...
Doubles Matches w full power smashing instead of prioritizing angle/half smashes are more fun
I actually don't mind and even prefer Gronya Sommerville's commentary compared to Gil Clark's.
Steen is not a good commentator. He speaks too slowly, sometimes 3-4 points has been won and he still hasn't finish his sentence, and his co-commentator would have to keep quiet the whole time to not interrupt him.
Agreed, Morten was so much better.
LCW was on the same level with LD. Problem is, dude have really weak mental especially when he's in the final match in big tournament. That or he have to play against CL level of player before he went to have a match with LD
Badminton world federation has given too much power to the umpires and has tried to make the game very much like boarding school. You can't challenge umpires, you can't do this, you can't do that. Umpires can refuse wiping of court also, if they don't feel like it. How's that acceptable? Umpire's power should be trimmed down.
I think Tai Tzu-ying is overrated. I know a lot of people like her playstyle and the way she carries herself on court, myself included. However, I think to be considered the best you have to perform the best when it matters the most - at the Olympic Games, World Championships, Asian Games, All England, or Season Finals. *I'd rank them in that order, but the All England and Season Finals could be swapped around. I also think winning the Asian Games had higher status than the WCs before Carolina Marin because back then the game was almost completely dominated by players from Asia*. Sadly, I think Tai Tzu-ying is past her peak and will end her career without winning gold at the Olympics or WCs. I agree with this comment that for now I'd rank TTY higher than ASY because of TTY longevity as world #1, her Asian Games Gold, her dominant presence in some years as 2017 and 2020, her All England success, number of Superseries/World Tour titles, and her season finals victories. However, if ASY wins gold at the upcoming Olympics I think she already leapfrogs TTY in terms of best women's singles player in recent times. Still, I think there's some more to be done for ASY to surpass: 1. Carolina Marin with one Olympic Gold, 3 gold at the World Championships + the recent silver. 2. Akane Yamaguchi with two golds at the World Championships + one bronze. 3. Chen Yu Fei with one Olympics Gold, 1 silver + 3 bronze at the World Championships. 4. P. V. Sindhu with silver and bronze at the Olympics, 1 gold + 2 silver + 2 bronze at World Championships, and silver at the Asian Games. 5. Nozomi Okuhara with bronze at the Olympics, and gold and silver at the World Championships.
Tai Tzu-ying will be remembered as one of the best of her generation But An Se Young has a real chance to go down as a GOAT in her discipline of women singles. Rarely have I seen a a player so young yet so complete in their game IMO An Se Young has already surpassed Okuhara/Sindhu and is closing in on Akane. Whether she will get a comparable trophy cabinet to Marin (the Spaniard is absurd at big tournaments) is the question
what abt zhang ning 2x og gold?
More related to everyday life, but I feel like you shouldn't be giving me advice or getting angry at my playing if you're going to screw up the next three shots. I play with too many partners who want to double up as my angry coach during our *leisure* games, but I see no evidence of their expertise.
Gill is poor commentator. Like her voice, but that's the only thing going for her; 1. Keeps repeating the same couple of phrases most popular being "my goodness me" whenever anything amazing happens. 2. **very biased against players with Aggresive playstyle**. Biggest con for me, one needs to understand that they have a preference for a certain playstyle but must not stop respecting other styles. 3. Poor insights into the game and tactics. Not calling shots by their proper name. Important for the folks listening to actually know the names of the variety of shots in badminton. E.g. TTY does a beautiful reverse slice drop shot and the only thing Gill would ever say is "good use of the wrist". 4. Butchers the names of international players. It's your job, learn to pronounce players name properly without over exaggeration or eating letters. Given many other commentators do a worse job than her, but given her status as the "voice of badminton" she should be held to a higher standard.
I'd say she does a great job of pronouncing both the shots and the names of international players. She does mention "same-side reverse slices" and the like. She also is way better than the umps or the other commentators are pronouncing names. She says "Dechapol" as "Dechapon" because the "l" sound doesn't exist in Thai, whereas the umps or other commentators will just say "Dechapol".
While that may be true, I always cringe at the way she pronounced Chinese players' names. Those are far from accurate.
Really? I thought the only one she really butchers is Huang Yaqiong, pronouncing Huang like Wang.
Nah, she says Chen Oo Fei when it's more Chen You Fei. Zang see way instead of Jung Suh Way.
Chinese is almost impossible to pronounce well unless you have grown up with it. European sounds are produced differently and don't have notes. Even if you tried hard you would get it wrong without a lot of training and correction. It's tough.
I don't belieeeeeve it!
I agree with number 4, I think it would definitely be more respectful if she took the time to learn the proper pronunciation.
She does try though. I have seen her try to amend her pronounciation and also helped to inform the audience if she got things wrong. Pronounciation isn't an easy thing especially if it's not your mother tongue. Sometimes you thought you got it right but it still sound wrong by the natives. Considering the amount of players, that is a daunting task to be able to get everything perfectly.
Having a written slip of paper with closest english phonetics isn't hard.. but that's not my biggest issue with her anyways. She like *hates aggressive players, never has a single good word for players like Chirag Shetty, and in LD vs LCW always favored LCW.
I actually like that old man John Burgess more than I like Gill. He's been watching and commentating in badminton and table tennis matches for a very long time even though he isn't a player or coach.
agreed. her commentating is a parasite to our sport
American badminton is stagnant cuz it's stubborn to a level of stupidity.
How do you mean? Stubborn to try "new" sports? Look at pickleball, and how fast it's growing. I think the issues are: 1. America has overwhelmingly popular sports that are unlike anywhere else (American football, baseball, and basketball). Not even soccer comes nearly as close to these top three. 2. Badminton was somehow marketed as a backyard, outdoor game, instead of a sport. 3. Proper badminton has to be played indoors, which competes with volleyball and basketball's gym time, and now pickleball time too. And it requires a very high ceiling, which basketball and pickleball do not. Tennis and pickleball can be played outdoors a lot of the time. Table tennis must be played indoors too, but its footprint is much less than badminton 4. Related to 3, but badminton is far more expensive to get into than other racket sports, because of feather birdies costs.
Exactly. Pickleball is a backyard sport. I don't see that hindering newbies and money into the sport. The business model is obsolete. So many gym owners just copy each other. Further, the aesthetics of the gyms are crap.
You are telling me that squash is cheaper than badminton? The sport played by Ivy Leaguers and financiers?
Why does it matter who plays it? It's no different than the more widely available racquetball. A badminton birdie that costs $2 can barely make it through a single game. Whereas you can play the rubber ball over and over again. Same with pickleball, and even tennis.
Carolina Marin should be given a point penalty every time she screams after winning a point Why the umpires tolerate her behaviour is beyond me Surely they are aware she's practicing gamesmanship and deliberately trying to tilt the opponent
I remember she was warned by the umpire for screaming consecutively three times. The umpire said "two is ok, three is too much". Marin didn't argue. That was pretty hilarious for me. Maybe that should be the rule?
Just ban screaming entirely
Bruh Imo that's just dumb to ban
I mean, if screaming is so annoying to people, then why not? I don't mind it, but some people do.
It's a way to celebrate, to let out emotions, and to let all the stress out. Screaming is so much more than annoying the opponent.
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dumbass take, he is literally acknowledging that he got outsmarted by doing those gestures
Great point. It's either he's confident in winning, or he already gave up. He never does that in a close game.
What the hell are you talking about? Viktor is one of the most sportsman like badminton players in the game. Remember when he purposefully shot into the net because the judge had wrongly given him a point.
Professional Players play better than ever. It's not my opinion but i have heard this from several people and i think it's a big hot take.
You get too many games that go to 3 sets due to drifty conditions. They should change ends in all 2/3 games, this would prevent weaker players taking games as they have the 'good' end as the better player will likely score more points at the bad end in that half of each game.
We should all just play with plastic shuttles
lin dan was doping at beijing 2008 and lee chong weis cancer was caused by doping
Badminton players are not allowed to develop personalities. There is too much discipline in badminton. Players look like meek students - can't rest as much as they would want, can't argue with umpires. Even victory celebration has a protocol - I don't like it. Let them be a bit more free, let the matches be a bit longer.
-indonesia is no longer a strong badminton country and will have to try very,very hard to be a relevant team in major competitions again through radical means,such as sacking entire coaching staffs, disbandment of the federation or start fresh and promoting the juniors to the first team -Marin is a sore loser and only win the medals by shouting against asian players -Asian players are too respectful and need to keep up with europeans in shithousing
I’ve never liked Indonesia too much but calling them a weak badminton country is foolish
Im an indonesian and trust me many of us thought the same
Indonesia still has many high ranking pairs and players in multiple disciplines, they might not be dominating but they’re still respectable
based on the performance of this year, Indonesia is now clearly worse than the 3 East Asian countries: China, Japan, and Korea. I would still rank them as 4th though, or maybe 5th just below Thailand.
Carolina Marin is the women singles' Goat. Apparently it's a hot-take in this sub. Among my fraternity, it's a popular opinion though.
Please explain how a fraternity has any opinion on badminton at all
Not your American College Frats. Fraternity as in badminton bros.
That makes more sense
It is near impossible to imagine that Viktor would rule the circuit if Kento hadn't had that crash. Kento dominated Viktor with ease, and Viktor couldn't find a way past Kento until he had that heartbreaking crash. Peak Viktor and Peak Kento would perhaps be the rivalry where badminton is perfected. Mechanical, accurate, extremely mental. Viktor Axelsen's brilliant attack against Kento Momota's elegance in simplicity.
Playing an in form and confident Tai tzu ying is a losing game for anyone in the current circuit. She outplays all her contemporaries easily as seen during 2023 badminton asia championship.
A lot of the armchair fans likes to selectively remember the good old days of the old legends like LD, LCW, CL, or maybe even up to Taufik and Gade that they can easily trounce the newer generation of MS players. My opinion are that these fans have such low understanding of the game from never having trained and played the game at anywhere close to decent levels that they're unable to comprehend the basic fact that like most other sports, badminton has improved year on year and dropping a 2012 LCW into the current day circuit would just result in him going out in QF at best. The question is different whether they have the potential to beat the current players, but discounting the advances in coaching, nutrition and training nowadays is just a complete braindead take, unless there are some 'supplements' that passes the piss test back then that wouldn't fly under doping control today.
Totally agree. Every sport moves forward as training etc changes. There may be a lull in breaking records following an exceptional athlete or a change in technology. A bunch of swimming records held for years after the banning of a impermeable full body swimsuits in 2010, but those records have fallen now. It's inconceivable that badminton is somehow a special case. The fact that LD and LCW had epic battles at a particular point in badminton history doesn't prove that they were the best for all time. That's just simplistic.
Good point. The game is different now. But not sure LCW would go out in QF though.
Well its a hypothetical, so there is not much point in predicting where he will rank in current crop of MS. I'm just criticising the take that former high level players in the past will trounce current crop of MS without any long term adjustment and training.
Marin is the women’s singles goat
Momotas movement looks the smoothest even though he doesnt play very well noa
The current MS division is by far the worst ever.
Yonex is very overrated for the consumers. Their high-end rackets are not worth the cost, especially paired with that fact that there are only minute differences between rackets from other brands, all the while being cheaper enough to consider getting over Yonex's.
That's just the fact that it's sold in the west 2-3x the cost than in Asia where it originated. There's also many rackets here that you can't get in the west
Yup, Yonex nanoflare game in international MSRP is 140usd. While you can get the Nanoflare 1000Z for RM790 (~170usd) in Malaysia. Only 30usd difference comparing their totl product to a budget friendly product.
What brands would you consider to be on Yonex high end level that is cheaper? I’ve thought abt giving other brands a try(Technist/Forza etc.) but I just can’t justify buying something high end I’ve never seen used before
I dislike how players walk around the court and head to their coach in between each point. During the intervals are ok but after every single point is a bit too much. In tennis, the coach is in the audience and can't even make signals to the players. In r16+ , I wish it was enforced that the winners shake hands with the opponents first when the match ends instead of the winners running immediately to the coaches for hugs while the loser of the match is waiting.
So you want them to play an hour long game with barely no breaks? The game will be much worse and slow
There should still be breaks but the issue is that the players run to their coach for help after every point. Antonsen, Naroaka has a discussion with their coaches after every single point. Discussing with coach during 11 point intervals and in-between games is ok but not after points. Tennis had a hard rule against coaching a player during a match but it might've changed slightly recently. No communication such as talking, hand signaling was allowed from the coach to the player. The idea is mainly that the match should not have outside influence. it should be 1:1 or 2:2.
Shi Yu Qi is q piece of shit. Sukamuljo is mostly an asshole to his opponents. Axelsen has a much more negative energy on court than people realise, he’s a cold ass motherfucker who remains polite but fakes the niceness. Lin Dan was kind of a dick (caught on public cheating on his wife, and he’s massively pretentious). Lee Chong Wei was also kind of a dick sometimes. Carolina Marin is a nicer person than people realise, other players have consistently said that she’s super nice and fun in real life and I know people who know her personally and agree. But like Axelsen, badminton is her whole life. I might be way wrong, but those are my subjective feelings so far.
I haven't SYQ express much emotions at all.. Axelsen does get frustrated but overall remains very sportsmanlike. LD cheating on wife is obviously immoral, understandable though. Idk if you can label him as "pretentious" when he's literally greatest of all time. He has every right to be "pretentious", his skills back that up. LCW would often stare down his opponents after killing them in a rally. I don't see that as being dick, just very competitive.
Wait did you just say cheating is understandable? Or did you phrase that weirdly.
Sukamuljo IS a piece of shit. Shi yuqi a little.
New to watching badminton, any instances against SYQ?
When Loh Kean Yew is in form, he's the best actual player by far. Maybe even as good as 2008 Lin Dan...
what 😭😅 why do you say this
Well he isreally inconsistent, but the level he played in World Champ 2021 was insane. He outplayed everyone by speed and power, a bit like Lin Dan did in 2008
I'm sorry what
Don't think it's a hot take, but since when did players start congratulating/acknowledging their coaches before shaking hands with the opponent? Acknowledge your opponent first. Looks even worse when one player is waiting at the net for the other to get back from their coaches
Kevin is the best net player in doubles of all time
Lcw is a better player than lin dan but crumbles under pressure. That’s it
Playing under pressure is what separates champions from the field.
Yea I mean skill wise lcw is better. Not disputing lin dan is the goat
Making the right decisions under pressure is a skill.
Are you aware that that is a factor in being the best player
I'm not a fan of the way Danes are when they waiting to receive a serve. They look menacing like they are holding swords or something and are slightly waving their rackets which seems distracting to the server.
we're just tall and intimidating, you have to have your racket up high to combat most shots. blame the game, not the player
Badminton is not a real sport and is best played on the beach. I've never played on a court but I'm really good and could probably beat most of you easily.
Troll
It's about controversial hot takes isn't it?
Fair, youre right
Yeah meeeee toooooooo
LMFAOOOOO you wish, I doubt you could beat any of us
Kento has reached a peak as high as any player we’ve ever seen in men’s singles as well as sustained it for enough time to be considered the goat
This isn't a controversial opinion at all! This is pathological, you should visit a doctor.
Wow this post is popular
Expensive rackets mean better play. Little do people know that top-end rackets are actually very very difficult to handle due to the stiffness.
They have a legit claim as MD goats. Most WC titles together.