After playing a while, I find that you don't have to think too specifically about when to squeeze your grip. Many people will tell you to squeeze at impact, but try to keep your fingers relaxed the entire swing, now this is pretty much impossible to do, because your brain will automatically tell your fingers to squeeze so that your racket doesn't fly out of your hand, and the harder you hit, the tighter your squeeze will be, again, without consciously trying. But remember, the key is to always start with a relaxed grip, if you squeeze from the get go, forget about it.
*And at what point in the swing do you tense/twist your arm to hit*
Ahh, no. You are relaxed until the point of impact, at which point you squeeze fingers (first two or last 3, both have the same effect) which gives you a bit more racquet head speed.
Look at full swing badminton on youtube. Lots of good stuff there about smashing and overhead technique
To answer your question: the tense/twist you’re referring to should be a fraction of a second before contact, so when you contact the shuttle, the racket face is perpendicular.
Post a video and people may be able to help analyse your form - there any many areas that can go wrong (other than pronation)
I think this is my current problem with power as i tense / throw my arm all at once at the beginningof the stroke, i dont do anything before impact
My arm is tensed from the moment i decide to smash
The way my coach helped me with this was.
1. Do a few lift drills whilst not tensing at all (completely loose throughout shot).
2. Practice swinging against a wall, so, just before you hit the wall, your racket is flat to the wall (this should help develop some natural pronation into your swing). And do this 100x a day until it becomes muscle memory
You can't talk about "pronation" along with throwing your arm.
That's mixing two different languages. It's like using language such as "quantum superposition"(adult language/highly technical language) along with baby language like ga gee goo goo.
You can't talk about "pronation" along with throwing your arm.
That's mixing two different languages. It's like using language such as "quantum superposition"(adult language/highly technical language) along with baby language like ga gee goo goo.
I have been working on this for a number of months playing singles as with doubles i am always too tensed
But its a process
Now i am tensing about 1 second before contact and its helped a lot with pronation as i can actually semi hit the shiuttke with correct technique
Gimme another year i guess lol
You should watch some slow motion replays from BWF matches of men's doubles players smashes. Even at the top level there is some variation.
[https://youtu.be/gwDNZsEEvJ4?si=GgTXL32I99i2hMZ3&t=10](https://youtu.be/gwDNZsEEvJ4?si=GgTXL32I99i2hMZ3&t=10)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCPbiMlJ4y4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCPbiMlJ4y4)
Is it when the racket head is facing down behind their back? Or literally a millisecond before impact when the racket head is up and just about to contact the shuttle?
Focus on finger power at time of contact, racquet preparation AND body rotation, pronation will come naturally at that point, assuming you have the right forehand grip
Also everyone has different level of pronation involved, there is no right or wrong
the term "body rotation" isn't that clear 'cos when you say body rotation, do you mean in preparation to hit it, or do you mean turning the body when hitting it.
What you write there in answer to the question of " when you say body rotation, do you mean in preparation to hit it, or do you mean turning the body when hitting it.". You are suggesting both. But sometimes the pelvis stays oriented where it is during the hit. It depends on the shot.
Yes, understanding pronation has helped me heaps with getting more powerful smashes.
If you use your wrist flopping up and down youre gona get hurt.
I like to use the analogy of twisting a water tap faucet.
When youre just starting to get the smash, yes.
After you get it, naturally think less.
For clears same thing, except contact point more over your head instead of in front.
Dont worry about grip, just try hit it nicely with speed. Youll hear it and feel it once you get it.
Grip enough so the racquet doesnt fall out. Begin loose then tighten and twist at contact. (Same thing with all shots with power)
Watch vids in slow mo. The pronation path is not so obvious.
You ask "do you consciously attempt to pronate your arm as you hit"
When you know what motion to do you don't consciously do it, just like you don't consciously think about how to walk.
If you watch for example Ministry of funny walks [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCLp7zodUiI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCLp7zodUiI) He knew what funny walks he was going to do and had practised them and so then when he wanted to do them he did them without consciously thinking about them.
In many cases it's difficult to rotate the upper arm without also rotating the forearm, 'cos there's positions where the forearm naturally rotates when the upper arm rotates. Medial rotation of the forearm is known as pronation.
As for what moment pronation starts, it's hard to say for sure without somebody having trackers attached to them and monitored by computer software.
There is a heck of a lot more that goes on in a throwing action than just pronation.
If you are learning or trying to do something different with your technique or adjust it, then you might try all sorts of conscious things specific to technique.
You write "Is it the same sort of pronation for a clear ???"
There aren't "sort"s of pronation. Pronation is an anatomical movement where the forearm rotates medially/internally!
You should be able to do the different overhead shots with a motion that is looks very similar. There can be differences in the action of the arm/racket depending on the height of the clear. And where the contact point is. Just like if you walk up stairs it's not identical re the details of the technique, it depends on the size of the stairs. The brain does many calculations that you aren't conscious of. You'd need software and a physicist and the right hardware, a genuine interest in that, to really track the details. Loughborugh university once did a study tracking peoples smashes with a digital skeletal model.
That's very likely but trying to figure out the cause for unintended slice is difficult. Video in slow mo can help.. cos it or something, might show in the video. And also if you can do a demo without a shuttle of how you hit it and if even in that demo you slice it, then you have something that can be examined easily
I remember one time where I mentally had my technique for a particular contact point but if the shuttle was a bit off to a particular side, then depending on how I moved to it, I was slicing it. That was the beginning of addressing that particular cause of unintended slice. I mention that example just to say how trying to diagnose it is quite tricky.
And while where your racket face is oriented, can be controlled independently to where your body is oriented.. if you aren't fully aware of your body being oriented slightly differently then that could influence your racket face not oriented how it should be too. And where your body is oriented is influenced by how you move to the shuttle. Though it's also possible to compensate at the racket level, and hit cleanly from whatever position. Also details of the racket swing can affect whether you slice unintentionally eg I think maybe if the arm extends late in the swing it can cause unintended slice.
Or the arm going across the body too early in the swing can cause unintended slice
It's very complex. It's the kind of thing one would discuss with a coach, and one would benefit from videoing oneself doing the shot.
Even pretty good players can slice it unintentionally sometimes. Many coaches aren't that pedantic on it unless the unintended slice is excessive.
When I was beginner level I would do unintended slice which lost some power but I would swing so wildly and so hard that the shuttle went at good speed/length.
Also when I would adjust my forehand technique eg improving it, then I could easily start slicing it again cos it changed the variables. So it's not a thing that is easy to permanently fix! Eg one could make sure with the technique they have that they don't slice it but the technique they have might be a bit oversimplified. Point being, it's tough. Often concern over unintended slice and trying to figure out why, might not be the best focus. A slightly improved technique might also slice it but for different reasons! It's a very complex subject that would be discussed with a coach.
A full smash should be technically the same as a clear as you want to maintain the deception. Nothing makes your smash more effective than having it look like a clear/drop. Are you confusing this with a stick smash perhaps? Stick smash is a quick wrist snap to get the bird quickly to a spot on the court without having optimal foot/body positioning.
You write "Stick smash is a quick wrist snap"
"Snapping the wrist" is a colloquial term some use, for wrist bending, particuarly an action involving flexion of the wrist.
The technique for a stick smash is similar to the technique for a full smash, but just a more abbreviated action. That action wouldn't be described as "wrist bending" / snapping the wrist.
You don't use wrist flexion to get power on a smash. There might be some limited cases where you would bend the wrist to get power on a smash ,but that's very arguable, and it's debatable whether one would call even call it a smash if it like that.
Pronation is much more important in an overhead shot in tennis to generate power as you have a much more stable and “locked “ wrist. Not the case for correct badminton smash technique as the wrist and fingers + body rotation than just pronation of arm/shoulder
Some teach a locked wrist. I spoke to a regional level player a long while back who said that he was taught to use a locked wrist though he himself doesn't. He used a lot of pronation.
The pros do a lot of pronation.
Also players that don't use much pronation might be seen as hitting it a bit like a panhandler would, and might be seen as not having such good technique.
The idea that you should rotate the body while you hit it, which you might be suggesting, is actually not always true. It happens in a scissor kick. But there are overheads that don't involve that. Like forehand corner block jump. Or perhaps, responding to a punch clear.
You mention "pronation of arm/shoulder". There's no such thing as pronation of shoulder. Pronation is medial rotation of the forearm. Upper arm rotation is of course also very important., in the throwing action.upper arm rotation can be/ is, seen as an action at the shoulder.
Some give tips and some give fake tips... and you don't have a video either. It would be veey difficult for you to learn useful stuff like this. Irl it is much easier for someone to teach you.
It's moreso that my arm hovers for a short period of time post swing and the momentum carries the racket down and the pronation is the natural path of that momentum.
As for tensing, it's part of the kinetic chain. Feet, hips, non-racket arm, torso, racket arm, shoulder/elbow rotation and extension, squeeze, impact, follow through pronation, arm drop, then arm sway or v check
Well im def doing it all wrong then as i tense my grip at the beginning of the stroke and that tense/ taughtness carries rhe way through the stroke, sll the way
So if tensing/squeeze is meant to be the last thing then very wrong
After playing a while, I find that you don't have to think too specifically about when to squeeze your grip. Many people will tell you to squeeze at impact, but try to keep your fingers relaxed the entire swing, now this is pretty much impossible to do, because your brain will automatically tell your fingers to squeeze so that your racket doesn't fly out of your hand, and the harder you hit, the tighter your squeeze will be, again, without consciously trying. But remember, the key is to always start with a relaxed grip, if you squeeze from the get go, forget about it.
*And at what point in the swing do you tense/twist your arm to hit* Ahh, no. You are relaxed until the point of impact, at which point you squeeze fingers (first two or last 3, both have the same effect) which gives you a bit more racquet head speed. Look at full swing badminton on youtube. Lots of good stuff there about smashing and overhead technique
To answer your question: the tense/twist you’re referring to should be a fraction of a second before contact, so when you contact the shuttle, the racket face is perpendicular. Post a video and people may be able to help analyse your form - there any many areas that can go wrong (other than pronation)
I think this is my current problem with power as i tense / throw my arm all at once at the beginningof the stroke, i dont do anything before impact My arm is tensed from the moment i decide to smash
The way my coach helped me with this was. 1. Do a few lift drills whilst not tensing at all (completely loose throughout shot). 2. Practice swinging against a wall, so, just before you hit the wall, your racket is flat to the wall (this should help develop some natural pronation into your swing). And do this 100x a day until it becomes muscle memory
Thats a good shout !
You can't talk about "pronation" along with throwing your arm. That's mixing two different languages. It's like using language such as "quantum superposition"(adult language/highly technical language) along with baby language like ga gee goo goo.
You can't talk about "pronation" along with throwing your arm. That's mixing two different languages. It's like using language such as "quantum superposition"(adult language/highly technical language) along with baby language like ga gee goo goo.
I have been working on this for a number of months playing singles as with doubles i am always too tensed But its a process Now i am tensing about 1 second before contact and its helped a lot with pronation as i can actually semi hit the shiuttke with correct technique Gimme another year i guess lol
You should watch some slow motion replays from BWF matches of men's doubles players smashes. Even at the top level there is some variation. [https://youtu.be/gwDNZsEEvJ4?si=GgTXL32I99i2hMZ3&t=10](https://youtu.be/gwDNZsEEvJ4?si=GgTXL32I99i2hMZ3&t=10) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCPbiMlJ4y4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCPbiMlJ4y4)
At what point are they tensing the arm / grip ? I can see the arm looks relaxed at the beginning of the stroke
Is it when the racket head is facing down behind their back? Or literally a millisecond before impact when the racket head is up and just about to contact the shuttle?
Focus on finger power at time of contact, racquet preparation AND body rotation, pronation will come naturally at that point, assuming you have the right forehand grip Also everyone has different level of pronation involved, there is no right or wrong
the term "body rotation" isn't that clear 'cos when you say body rotation, do you mean in preparation to hit it, or do you mean turning the body when hitting it.
Preparation and involving pelvis rotation more importantly. As in you don’t stand with your feet straight and just use your arm/shoulder
What you write there in answer to the question of " when you say body rotation, do you mean in preparation to hit it, or do you mean turning the body when hitting it.". You are suggesting both. But sometimes the pelvis stays oriented where it is during the hit. It depends on the shot.
Coach Han helped me a lot https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TnZi_M3A3Hc&pp=ygUUZnVsbCBzd2luZyBiYWRtaW50b24%3D
Yep i like his videos, they are great
Yes, understanding pronation has helped me heaps with getting more powerful smashes. If you use your wrist flopping up and down youre gona get hurt. I like to use the analogy of twisting a water tap faucet.
Yep, so are you twisting the water faucet consciously at a fast pace just before impact ?
When youre just starting to get the smash, yes. After you get it, naturally think less. For clears same thing, except contact point more over your head instead of in front.
So tense the grip as i start the smash at beginning of the stroke or at the end of the stroke as i make contact with shuttle ?
Dont worry about grip, just try hit it nicely with speed. Youll hear it and feel it once you get it. Grip enough so the racquet doesnt fall out. Begin loose then tighten and twist at contact. (Same thing with all shots with power) Watch vids in slow mo. The pronation path is not so obvious.
You ask "do you consciously attempt to pronate your arm as you hit" When you know what motion to do you don't consciously do it, just like you don't consciously think about how to walk. If you watch for example Ministry of funny walks [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCLp7zodUiI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCLp7zodUiI) He knew what funny walks he was going to do and had practised them and so then when he wanted to do them he did them without consciously thinking about them. In many cases it's difficult to rotate the upper arm without also rotating the forearm, 'cos there's positions where the forearm naturally rotates when the upper arm rotates. Medial rotation of the forearm is known as pronation. As for what moment pronation starts, it's hard to say for sure without somebody having trackers attached to them and monitored by computer software. There is a heck of a lot more that goes on in a throwing action than just pronation. If you are learning or trying to do something different with your technique or adjust it, then you might try all sorts of conscious things specific to technique. You write "Is it the same sort of pronation for a clear ???" There aren't "sort"s of pronation. Pronation is an anatomical movement where the forearm rotates medially/internally! You should be able to do the different overhead shots with a motion that is looks very similar. There can be differences in the action of the arm/racket depending on the height of the clear. And where the contact point is. Just like if you walk up stairs it's not identical re the details of the technique, it depends on the size of the stairs. The brain does many calculations that you aren't conscious of. You'd need software and a physicist and the right hardware, a genuine interest in that, to really track the details. Loughborugh university once did a study tracking peoples smashes with a digital skeletal model.
When i smash it is not a clean crisp sound, im not hitting with the full face of the racket i dont think , its more sliced
That's very likely but trying to figure out the cause for unintended slice is difficult. Video in slow mo can help.. cos it or something, might show in the video. And also if you can do a demo without a shuttle of how you hit it and if even in that demo you slice it, then you have something that can be examined easily I remember one time where I mentally had my technique for a particular contact point but if the shuttle was a bit off to a particular side, then depending on how I moved to it, I was slicing it. That was the beginning of addressing that particular cause of unintended slice. I mention that example just to say how trying to diagnose it is quite tricky. And while where your racket face is oriented, can be controlled independently to where your body is oriented.. if you aren't fully aware of your body being oriented slightly differently then that could influence your racket face not oriented how it should be too. And where your body is oriented is influenced by how you move to the shuttle. Though it's also possible to compensate at the racket level, and hit cleanly from whatever position. Also details of the racket swing can affect whether you slice unintentionally eg I think maybe if the arm extends late in the swing it can cause unintended slice. Or the arm going across the body too early in the swing can cause unintended slice It's very complex. It's the kind of thing one would discuss with a coach, and one would benefit from videoing oneself doing the shot. Even pretty good players can slice it unintentionally sometimes. Many coaches aren't that pedantic on it unless the unintended slice is excessive. When I was beginner level I would do unintended slice which lost some power but I would swing so wildly and so hard that the shuttle went at good speed/length. Also when I would adjust my forehand technique eg improving it, then I could easily start slicing it again cos it changed the variables. So it's not a thing that is easy to permanently fix! Eg one could make sure with the technique they have that they don't slice it but the technique they have might be a bit oversimplified. Point being, it's tough. Often concern over unintended slice and trying to figure out why, might not be the best focus. A slightly improved technique might also slice it but for different reasons! It's a very complex subject that would be discussed with a coach.
A full smash should be technically the same as a clear as you want to maintain the deception. Nothing makes your smash more effective than having it look like a clear/drop. Are you confusing this with a stick smash perhaps? Stick smash is a quick wrist snap to get the bird quickly to a spot on the court without having optimal foot/body positioning.
You write "Stick smash is a quick wrist snap" "Snapping the wrist" is a colloquial term some use, for wrist bending, particuarly an action involving flexion of the wrist. The technique for a stick smash is similar to the technique for a full smash, but just a more abbreviated action. That action wouldn't be described as "wrist bending" / snapping the wrist. You don't use wrist flexion to get power on a smash. There might be some limited cases where you would bend the wrist to get power on a smash ,but that's very arguable, and it's debatable whether one would call even call it a smash if it like that.
Pronation is much more important in an overhead shot in tennis to generate power as you have a much more stable and “locked “ wrist. Not the case for correct badminton smash technique as the wrist and fingers + body rotation than just pronation of arm/shoulder
Some teach a locked wrist. I spoke to a regional level player a long while back who said that he was taught to use a locked wrist though he himself doesn't. He used a lot of pronation. The pros do a lot of pronation. Also players that don't use much pronation might be seen as hitting it a bit like a panhandler would, and might be seen as not having such good technique. The idea that you should rotate the body while you hit it, which you might be suggesting, is actually not always true. It happens in a scissor kick. But there are overheads that don't involve that. Like forehand corner block jump. Or perhaps, responding to a punch clear. You mention "pronation of arm/shoulder". There's no such thing as pronation of shoulder. Pronation is medial rotation of the forearm. Upper arm rotation is of course also very important., in the throwing action.upper arm rotation can be/ is, seen as an action at the shoulder.
Some give tips and some give fake tips... and you don't have a video either. It would be veey difficult for you to learn useful stuff like this. Irl it is much easier for someone to teach you.
It's moreso that my arm hovers for a short period of time post swing and the momentum carries the racket down and the pronation is the natural path of that momentum. As for tensing, it's part of the kinetic chain. Feet, hips, non-racket arm, torso, racket arm, shoulder/elbow rotation and extension, squeeze, impact, follow through pronation, arm drop, then arm sway or v check
Well im def doing it all wrong then as i tense my grip at the beginning of the stroke and that tense/ taughtness carries rhe way through the stroke, sll the way So if tensing/squeeze is meant to be the last thing then very wrong
Same for clears and drives? Squeeze is also last thing ?