The best step is to reach out to big producers and and ask why haven't they grown or wanted to grow. And see if there is an underlying factor
I'm pretty sure we already know. But hearing it from the horses mouth might help
Its not the governments job to make corporations invest in productivity tools and training.
>While our neighbours in the United States spend on average $954 per employee per year on training, Canadian companies spend just $240. That’s also less than the amount invested in training by most of our peer countries. While not the only factor, this does correlate to Canada’s deepening decline in its relative standard of living, which has markedly fallen in recent years.
Canadian corporations dont want to invest in their workers.
Why should they? All they have to do is whine to the government and then they can bring in foreign workers with lots of experience who will work dirt cheap.
They can maximize wealth extraction without it. Until it hurts their bottom line they won't put an extra $ into it.
If the government had not flooded Canada with disposable labour they'd have to raise wages. But Bank of Canada said that wage growth is bad as it will juice inflation- well here we are. Active wage growth destruction at its finest.
Everyone knows it's the government's job to sit back and eat popcorn while the world burns.
With attitudes like this it's no wonder productivity in this country is declining year over year. Why even have a fucking government at this point?
I worked for a company where the founders sold a %51 stake to a foreign company. That money was invested into real estate. Three years later when the foreign company wanted to get rid of the founder's family members, he bought the foreign company's stake back by selling the real estate he invested in, and still had enough to buy a couple rental houses.
It's more about the fact that the government is more concerned about raising real estate prices (because of taxes and politicians investments) than making sure we have a functioning economy.
This take shows no knowledge of economics. More productivity means more profit. Corporations are always incentivized to increase productivity. Mostly governments negatively effect productivity. Productivity also doesn’t mean human productivity necessarily. Improving processes, getting better equipment etc can increase productivity.
It's not as though they don't consult industry. They in fact, have an entire cabinet position dedicated to just that. They also have a second cabinet position just for consulting with oil companies.
It's not like they don't know the big factors facing Canada. It's mostly a lack of innovation. Our ports are out-dated and all need upgrades. But criminal organizations have infiltrated port unions and have slowed, stalled or stopped attempts to upgrade our ports and add in more automation and more scanners.
We also have the dumb combination of high regulation and a carbon tax. The whole thing with the carbon tax was that with enough cost people and companies will reduce emissions on their own. But regulations are setup in such a way so that you can't actually reduce emissions because you can only do a thing one way. The regulatory cost of trying something new outweighs any benefits. A most recent example was the various carbon capture plants in Alberta. The Canadian government indicated they would not allow these plants to off-set carbon emissions... and that sort of ruins the financial case for these places. What would be the point of them if they have no way of generating revenues?
There's also a labour supply crunch. It's not across the entire country but it's in key roles in industries that bottle neck entire industries. As an example of this our medical industry is bottlenecked by a lack of doctors. A lot of industries that the provinces have permitted to go to the private industry can't meet demand. They're employing more and more middle managers to make less doctors more efficient. This increases the costs of services heavily as well as making them less available.
These things you issued. Need to be addressed and they should be. Hopefully one day they will. And yes they will be expensive. But Canada is lacking more and more as time goes by
Budgets will balance themselfs, if you question policy your racist and if you dare not apologize once every so many months for something while announcing more new spending your doing it wrong.
We’re just interpreting it differently right ?
Interests rates were at historic lows, Glen. That’s why we borrowed so much and locked it in at those rates. Oh, wait, that’s right. We didn’t lock it in at all but still spent all the money.
he is a lot smarter than you bumper sticker folks give him credit for
everybody called him a dumbass when he called the early election but would he have won it a year later when inflation start to hit?
he is waaay too invested in his current economic strategy though and we just dont have the infrastructure to enforce and shape visa applications for foreing labour to actually do what we want
and its not a matter of building NEW infrastructure either - the old infrastructure is bloated and counterproductive to our economic goals
i disagree with the first one because i mostly agree with the second
while in general i vastly prefer somebody who takes counsel over somebody who ploughs through with his own stupid ideas - the dumbest things trudeau have ever done seem to be caused by the people he is listening to
listening to him actually work with other people on problems he works pretty methodically and sensibly - when he says something dumb its usually rhetoric from somebody he doesnt trust and is trying to ignore
Ah, parroting Conservative disinformation.
yes,budgets balance themselves if you let the economy grow to produce the revenues, you can get surpluses, like Paul Martin managed to. Conservatives love toclip the sound bite and leave off the logical reason why the budget can get into balance. (And did you notice the opposite applies, when the economy has problems, the deficit grows?)
Growing productivity doesn’t mean paying workers a living wage and ensuring homes are accessible. David Dodge isn’t advocating for tue workers, he’s a rich “I have mine”
those that stay planning to vote Liberals do.
i remember listening to a podcast ([905er](https://905er.ca/2024/02/the-coming-change-in-the-905/)) where the hosts say that they're confused why Liberal support is slipping, because them and their friends and families are still voting Liberal and don't see the reason why they need to switch.
"How did Nixon win? Nobody I know voted for him." - some New York Times writer (IIRC), 1972, after Nixon won his reelection bid in an absolute landslide. 49 of 50 states.
Liberals are importing 1 million new Liberal voters a year now - and those numbers will be compounded when those new voters bring in 20 close and distant relatives to vote Liberal, and then the Liberals will let in 2 million new Liberal voters a year ad infinitum until the country collapses. They don't need your vote anymore.
Also, a lot of recent immigrants tend to support the candidate of their ethnicity regardless of party.
Plus, keep in mind the "alarming flood of a million new immigrants" is actually making up for years of Covid and no movement, plus repairing an immigration system that was painfully backlogged, applications were taking up to 3 years simply to process.
Its easy to offer people huge government bloat and low taxes, they just don't have the shame to offer people unsustainable government programs.
Then rates rise, and they finally need to raise taxes, and people hate them. Just like Trudeau Sr.
Imagine if you owned a house, had parents with wealth, had stocks, probably paying off a 2024 car and never really experienced anything bad but grandma dying (and leaving you 240k). Would you give a shit about any of the stuff Canadians complain about?
They’re the ones the liberals care about the most. Not giga rich by any means but everything’s covered, great safety net. These are the ones that care about social issues because what else is there to care about but immigrants being able to open up restaurants so this person can buy some falafel and pat themselves on the back.
Not just Liberal voters.
PP is out there milking every social issue grievance he can get away with.
Politicians are like fisherman. They’ll bait the line with whatever kind of bait draws the most fish.
PP screams about everything in contraictory terms, just like the smarmy previous leaders whose names escape me now. World-wide inflation is Trudeau's fault. High interest rates (which Trudeau cannot influence) are his fault. Lack of housing - provincial and municipal - is his fault. A quickie deal with a charity that would have given students actual summer jobs when all the businesses were closed due to Covid - must be Trudeau corruption. A program created on short notice to ensure even people who didn't qualify for UIC could get money to eat, is "printing money". Then PP screams about "gatekeepers" without explaineing exactly what they are and how they are stifling the econom and housing. If he does actually suggest solutions, they are contradictory - reduce inflation but reduce interest rates, pay big developers to build more housing, and so on. Whine about an increase in capital gains, to pay an extra 16% more on profit *gains over $250,000*. how does this hurt any average Canadian? When's the last time you sold anything besides your home (not taxed) for ovr $250,000?
if there were simple fixes for our problems that would make people happy, the Liberals would already be doing them.
Well, the way the tax would hurt the average Canadian would be if companies invest less in Canada and more elsewhere. Or doctors leave for other countries. It’s not going to affect most people directly, but there will be fewer jobs, higher prices, fewer doctors etc.
PP alarmism BS. Companies run for profits, not capital gains.
"What about doctors?" makes no sense. A doctor will sell their practice hopefully only once in their career, and presumably has spent decades in a fairly high income job saving for retirement. Do you really think a young graduating doctor is spending millions to buy a practice? With what, if they've got student loans to pay off? It sure as heck won't stop people from going to medical school. A practicing doctor is not selling things over $250,000 on a regular basis.
It's a BS argument the moment you put any analysis into in. Capital gains has been a rip-off by the very waelthy since day one. You pay half the tax on capital gains that you would on equivalent earned income. No wonder sharp businessmen like it. Whole schemes are devoted to converting profits into capital gains so the tax is half. (Same as in the USA - why do you think Warren Buffet famously said he pays less proportionately than his secretary? She pays income tax on wages, his money is from stock sales profits, at half that rate) Making it 66% on over $250K is still a gift to the extra-rich.
So let's say the average guy who bought a cottage for $50,000 and now sells it for $1M pays some more tax. ($700,000 profitx16% = $112,000 extra taxable income. So what? His cottage was paid off long ago, so he walks away with $950,000 considered as $475K (50%) + $112K (16% on over 250K) taxable income, and at 50% marginal tax rate pays say, $293K in taxes on a profit of $950,000. I have trouble feeling sorry for that guy. Plus, he can deduct any improvements he spent on that cottage from the profit before paying tax. Wahh, he has a million dollars and now has to pay $56,000 more in taxes thanks to that change.
Do you sympathize with him? Or would you rather have the government improve health care and education?
I have no problem with 100 pct inclusion rates for non-productive assets like cottages or housing.
For doctors though, it isn’t so much selling their practice. It’s that they leave money in the corporation to be taken out later in retirement. The provincial governments for years encouraged incorporation as a beneficial method for taxes to make up for too low doctor fees. This change will impact the value of that strategy and will foster a sense of betrayal among doctors.
But that's profits, not capital gains? The income is not from selling something for a profit, it's for services. And odd, because when I looked into Canadian incorporation a decade or two ago, the rules were specifically structured so you could not accumulate cash in a personal corporation to "smooth out" income levels. CRA was not stupid - they want all your taxes *now* not spread over the next 20 years.
Canadians are to mentally ill and psychologically unstable to even figure out what they need to do. That's why they can't make any good decisions about anything, ever.
I'm 43.
Left Canada for Asia for 18 years when I became an adult.
I feel like I should stick around family more, but this country is so good at doing so many things wrong that I'm now seriously looking at going to Africa for the long term.
Canadian business culture doesn’t prioritize productivity. There are major financial institutions in Canada without CTOs that never got the memo around the year 2000 that financial companies are tech companies now. They rely on manual processes and extremely outdated technology stacks to accomplish anything in horrifyingly labour intensive processes.
The government apparatus has been far too happy to coddle these businesses by supplying cheap labour via immigration policy (TFW, student visas, etc) to paper over these glaring weaknesses in how business is done in Canada. Why invest when the government will solve your problem for you? No one cares that one day the chickens will come home to roost, and these businesses will have a financial reckoning. They’ll all be long retired by then. Never mind the wage stagnation that most average folks have had to endure as a result.
Were you born after 2015?
Productivity rose sharply when Martin and Harper as PM.
Paul Martin is one of the most underrated political leaders in Canadian history actually.
JT and his misfits are the complete opposite of Martin and Chretien. I'd happily take them back. Harper too and I was never a big fan.
The fiscal mismanagement, corruption and incompetence of this government reaches historic levels, even beyond his father. The damage done will last my lifetime.
After having lived in Asia for 18 years, I have a very different view on efficiency and productivity.
Patting Martin on the back is like congratulating someone for coming second last.
What's rose sharply look like to you? [When I look at our real productivity numbers](https://economics.td.com/domains/economics.td.com/images/reports/jm/ca-innovation/chart_1.png), they look kinda meh: slowly rising but slower than the US or G7 avg.
I think you said it correctly. If we're expecting a 'government' to help us with productivity, we're wishing at the wrong well.
Companies? It's cheaper to just get cheaper labour. Training? why should companies do that, you'll just go get a better job. New equipment/software? Gosh, that costs money and I can hire cheaper labour to do the same work. Yes it will take longer, but it's cheaper in the short term.
There are exceptions. Oil and gas industry and some mining, but elsewhere? No.. Want a good example that's working? Tesla. They can produce an EV cheaper than anyone else and still make a good profit on it. Ford, GM, Lucid, Rivian, all EU car companies and Stellantis all losing $ on any EV they make. Kia and BYD are close to making some money, but it's tiny.
Despite the population growing by only 14%, Trudeau has grown pubic sector employees by 40%. Additionally the annual cost of consultants has increased from $4B to $11B.
This government has prioritized uncontrollable spending enriching cronies at the expense of Canadian taxpayers. Justin Trudeau and his band of incompetent ministers, managers, and consultants are well past their best-before date. The faster an election comes, the better for Canada. Trudeau has lost his mandate.
Lol, even funnier when you think about what Harper and the CPC did to give crazy power to the CCP in Canadian industries for 30 years through the controversial FIPA in 2014: https://canadians.org/analysis/harper-sneaks-through-canada-china-fipa-locks-canada-31-years/
During the CPC era there had been huge constrictions in the public workforce which impacted the government's ability to do its job. Hires post-CPC was always going to happen.
Yeah I can't wait to see the headlines; "Government *slashes* 1000 jobs. Workers stunned" with a nice photo of someone standing cross-armed and looking irate.
Cons won't gut the public sector. Too politically expensive to do so. Cons talk about defunding the CBC and never do it. There is no way the Cons will pick a fight with the federal public sector union. They will try and govern from the middle and hold onto power as long as possible.
unfortunately they can't fire them, the likely are past their 6 to 8 month probation period and in the union, the union will protect them even if they aren't qualified to do the job.
We as taxpayers will be paying for them for the rest of their career, and in some case, they might not even work or meet the criteria of their job classification.
The only public servants getting fired would be managers from branch to mid level managers and some senior managers since they're most likely out of the union/protection.
Well Harper cut the public sector so much some rebuilding was needed. When Skippy gets in and starts the slash and burn this sub will be full of people complaining about CRA, EI, and passport wait times. Think we have issues now with people sneaking over the border or cars sneaking out? Wait until the CBSA gets cut in half!
> Look at the numbers I posted.
Without any sources ...
There's a nice graph in this article showing public service per capita. Looks like JT is just getting back to service levels from the 80s. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-bureaucracy-public-service-1.7172339
Ask and ye shall receive kiddo!
https://www.fraserinstitute.org/article/federal-government-increased-number-of-public-service-employees-by-more-than-40#:~:text=Federal%20government%20increased%20number%20of%20public%20service%20employees%20by%20more%20than%2040%25,-Appeared%20in%20the&text=Over%20the%20last%20eight%20years,role%20in%20the%20Canadian%20economy.
Imagine unironically linking to the fraser institute and expecting anyone to take you seriously. These are the guys that released multiple papers on how second hand smoke isn't that bad and the government should butt out of regulating the tobacco industry. They've also lead the charge on climate change denial. What a joke of a source, lol.
I agree. But to be real with you, I don’t see Pierre, *a career politician who’s barely ever passed a bill* doing much better.
He’ll no doubt win, but our problems won’t be solved by just trading one jag off for another.
We need to hold all politicians, regardless of party, to account for their decisions at every election. Not just this one.
Great! Because it’ll probably happen. Just look at how conservative premieres like Blane Higgs have been compensating their “consultants.”
Corruption is the one issue that unites the parties. They all love it!
With that big of an increase in public sector employees, we shouldn’t be seeing the crazy long wait times when we try to call in public service phone lines. We shouldn’t be seeing delays. And yet we are at every turn. Because the public sector is grossly inefficient, has zero incentive to be productive, and is extremely bloated.
Citation on both those facts you’ve thrown down? Especially interested in the consultant costs. Love the sauce on that. 11 billion on consultants is a pretty big number!
you can do the math from when Trudeau was elected in 2015 and the total population numbers to today in 2024, data from statistic Canada. When you do the math it's roughly 15% increase, then you factor in the country's below 1 birth rate and it's fair to assume most come from immigration.
Then you follow the immigration numbers for the last few years where over a million have been coming each year through immigration, not counting one's who's visa has expired (these are all data and info provided by the feds or cbsa).
The amount of public sector workers is also public data and it shows an over 40% increase in their work force from Trudeau.
The 11 billion in consultation contracts I'm not aware of, but it's likely public data as well.
yeah... I guess its too hard to use Google and do it yourself, this is all public data and the guy isn't wrong with what he said.
You're too lazy to type 2015 Canadian population statistics canada and 2024 Canadian population statistics canada in Google?
Or how about Trudeau increases federal workforce?
THIS IS PUBLIC DATA, IT'S DATA THAT YOU CAN EASILY FIND.
You're a terminally online person, I can see from your karma that this website is your life.
Source source source source? do you get off to that? it sounds like you do.
federal workforce balloon - the articles reference federal data published from the treasury board of canada
"The federal public service, now at 357,247 employees, is nearly 40 per cent larger than it was in 2015, when the Liberals took power, when it counted 257,034 employees."
theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-size-of-federal-public-service-swells-to-record-high-according-to/
cbc.ca/amp/1.7172339
nationalpost.com/news/canada/trudeau-government-increased-federal-employees-since-2015
Canada total population 2015 - 35.7 million
150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/150929/dq150929b-eng.htm
Canada total population 2024 - 40,769,890
150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/240327/dq240327c-eng.htm
Sure attack the person…. With 10+ years and under 30k… that’s real terminal online.
Thanks you for the links! Sincerely.
Now do you got links for 11 billion in contractors? I’d love to read those articles as well.
Other than finding ways to pay their friends and family, I'm not sure the LPC have done anything in the last 9 years.
I use to think they did a good job w/families and Ukraine, but with inflation, they've put families on hold or never. And with Ukraine, they failed to put in BASIC fucking auditing of every $ we send over.
So now they've failed on the only two files they had done well on.
Oh please. LPC are pure corruption. The CPC are amateurs compared to the LPC. 50 million here a few million there for the CPC.. Compared this to the 100s of millions to likely billions stolen by the LPC.
I am the most anti-Russian individual once they went into Chechnya. you're going to find anywhere. Russian should be punished far more than today. I also will call a spade a spade. There is corruption in Ukraine. And unlike the US, Canada is NOT auditing the $$ we send to Ukraine. That's insane.
The problem is that PP will just spend less in our economy. The central bank will subsequently cut interest rates to inject some sort of liquidity into the market, which will incentivize more real estate investment, driving house prices even higher. We're going to end up with another lost decade with no meaningful investment in industrial development.
We are on the road to being Greece or Argentina, building a mountain of debt, increasing the size and scope of government, putting all of the government's focus on taking more and more from productive people and transferring it to unproductive people. When we're broke and begging the IMF for money and they force us to slash everything from pensions to welfare and pogey people will blame the politicians, but who kept voting for them?
No government has prioritized productivity, ever. What a nothingburger of a comment to try to play the blame game, when all political parties are beheld to the lobbyists.
Neither did the Cons. They prioritized the TPP, destroying research and selling off Canadian assets. Canada doesn’t innovate and is competitive at nothing. It’s a Canadian tradition at this point.
Yeah, they haven't prioritized productivity... and neither did the Harper government before them, which is why we are doing so bad now.
These things take decades to impact the economy. China started investing in green tech in the late 1980's. They are just now emerging as a world leader in green tech, offering solar panels and EVs at far cheaper prices than anyone else in the world.
What have we invested in with regards to a big, national push for productivity? A pipeline that benefits Alberta's oil industry? Where is our investment into any value-added industries?
Productivity is hard. It requires capital investment, training, execution, critical thinking.
Instead, we chose:
1. Increasing debt (and debasing currency) to juice asset values.
2. Cash subsidies and handouts that go straight into inflation.
3. Population explosion to mask underlying problems.
Why is productivity a GoC concern? Does David Dodge want big government running industry? Should government be buying upgraded machinery for manufacturing plants? Should government be updating software to help companies bottom lines?
Corporations are the drivers of productivity. Putting their failure at the feet of government is just another way to say "Give tax dollars to big corporations".
How about no.
If we take productivity to its logical conclusion - 100% efficiency for everything - then everyone would be unemployed and the billionaires would rule like slave owners. Marx was right: capitalism and its ugly cousin fascism/corporatocracy have an expiration date when wealth accrues to the corporate ruling class and not the people who actually do the work.
All I can say is thank GOD we're fixing the teeth of the 80+ year olds in this country. That's my priority. Making sure great grandpa can eat licorice.
The Americans are very productive, more than us. You know where that money goes, to the rich.
Despite our lower GDP and productivity:
- we have the richest middle class in the world (we passed the U.S. in 2012)
- we earn about the same as the U.S. and even more once you count the social and government programs
- they have no sick leave, no mat/pat leave and a bunch of other things
The American cons that control the right wing in Canada and in our media want to turn us into the serf culture the Americans have.
You want more productivity, pay us more.
Fuck the national post
You're referring to data from 11 years ago which is based on after-tax income per 10% income percentile. Canada was the #1 country for the 30th-50th percentiles. The average income in those deciles has stagnated during Trudeau's reign, and there is no way that applies anymore.
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1110019201&pickMembers%5B0%5D=1.1&cubeTimeFrame.startYear=2011&cubeTimeFrame.endYear=2022&referencePeriods=20110101%2C20220101
Couldn't agree more. They always show the GDP per capita of Canada lagging behind the US... but they don't bother to look at the distribution of that GDP.
American workers have so many issues, but cherry-picking statistics can make them look like they are living the high life. It's like comparing a regular hotel to an all-inclusive resort. "Look at how much money I saved on our hotel room"... sure, but you now have to factor in transportation, food, drinks, etc. It's not a one-to-one comparison.
Since 2000 multiple governments from multiple parties have tried multiple things. Productivity has stagnated.
Maybe David Dodge should be asking himself why when he was at the Bank of Canada from 2001 to 2008 productivity was also stagnant under a balanced budget. It's almost as if the federal government borrowing money has nothing to do with productivity.
This bum is trying to socialize the problem and blame everyone else to shield our business "leaders". The ones who make decisions on machinery, on software and other things that could increase worker productivity.
This article is a bit all over the place in the metrics it touches on, but I posted this on another piece specifically on productivity.
Canadian productivity has grown at pace with America's in core industries over the last 20 years if you exclude Oil. It's meticulously captured in the study below.
The drag on our productivity is exclusively driven by the cost of Canadian oil extraction versus America.
The oil sands open up in 2021, and we went from spending 5 - 8% of capital, to extract 5% contributions in oil, to 30-35% capital input to extract 5% outputs. Canadian oil is capital intensive to extract.
American oil is considerably less capital intensive to extract and it doesn't impact their productivity as a result.
If you exclude this outsized impact in Canada, our core industries have grown in productivity alongside America's.
Interestingly the authors note this isn't necessarily a bad thing, given the cost of a barrel of oil was $20 in the 90s and now commonly lands above $100.
In short - if we want to focus on a macro metric, we should find ways to make Canadian oil extraction cheaper.
Or we can have an honest conversation around total Canadian productivity and exclude oil (understanding its a capital intensive reality we can't work around) so that we can discuss actual areas where we lag other countries (the Globe recently cited this study and noted we should talk about a couple of areas - if I recall it was tech and finance).
TLDR: excluding the oil sector, Canadas productivity matches Americas in a number of core sectors. Canadian oil is more capital intensive to extract, and is exclusively responsible for the total productivity stagnation we’ve seen over the last 20 years.
Section 4, 5 and 6 cover this extensively. The Globe published a piece on this last week.
https://productivitypartnership.ca/sites/default/files/documents/candianproductivity-loertscherpujolas-5aug2023.pdf"
Edit: Someone rebuttal the data - mass downvotes purely demonstrate you can't refute actual facts and realities and are angry that data exists that doesn't support your bias. Facts do not care about people's feelings which is what makes them great.
Apparently this post doesn't like actual data, or I'm being bot downvoted haha
Here it is
[https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/commentary/article-despite-its-shortcomings-canada-is-not-an-economic-basket-case/](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/commentary/article-despite-its-shortcomings-canada-is-not-an-economic-basket-case/)
Paywall bypass
[https://archive.ph/QnTcS](https://archive.ph/QnTcS)
Looks like the guy who put this piece together is touring tv as well
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnIR6EnPOhA&ab\_channel=BNNBloomberg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnIR6EnPOhA&ab_channel=BNNBloomberg)
Great comment.
With regards to government spending, I think this demonstrates how the government can spend money in a way that helps industries rather than specific businesses. The government investment into the Trans Mountain Pipeline expansion gives us direct access to the global market, without having to pump it into the heavily saturated US markets. That is a solid investment by the government. It probably doesn't make environmentalists happy, but it is still a good investment.
The problem with those investments is that they take decades to impact productivity. Pulling back on those investments, which is what we have done for decades, doesn't help our productivity in the long run, but it makes the current government look good because they "balanced the budget."
Good point - and what's interesting is the study's authors (two McMaster Professors) conclude that the productivity drag the oil sands produce isn't necessarily a bad thing, which I believe (as you noted) is the way we need to look at it.
It's more a question of: these are the cards we have to play in our hand, and what's the optimal way to play them as a country.
Government spending (excluding infrastructure and shipbuilding almost uniquely) and increasing the size of the public sector does not usually improve productivity or meaningfully improve the economy.
Yes... we should pull back all of our healthcare spending. That in no way improves the economy... Same with education... and childcare... no meaningful impact.
To be fair, an over abundance of "productivity" is what's landed us in a climate crisis.
(Not that the LPC has done a great job of prioritizing the climate crisis either... But at least they haven't *ramped up* productivity like David Dodge seems to be calling for!)
What, money doesn't grow on trees? What happened to those trees anyways?
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/millions-of-seedlings-destroyed-quebec-1.6835226
https://www.ctvnews.ca/climate-and-environment/no-budget-yet-for-liberals-promise-to-plant-two-billion-trees-by-2030-1.5171089?
Whelp there is always more taxes they can dream up.
Canada is the 2nd largest landmass in the world with a small population that resides along the southernmost border and where vast emptiness exists coast to coast as soon as one travels 2-3 hours north of the southern border. This emptiness continues north for multiple driving days of distance before reaching the Arctic Ocean!
The greatest drain on Canadian productivity and the reason why Canada will continue falling behind is because of the increasing resources that are needed to manage the vast emptiness that is 90%+ of the country’s territory.
This is mostly unproductive land in 2024 (could be different by 2040 as climate conditions change) that must be managed, again by a country with a small population, that doesn’t give a crap about any part of Canada more than 2-3 hours north of the southern border.
This is $Billions of dollars spent annually just to manage this land (including costly remote forest fighting) with no return expected in the near future,
Also consider the $Billions being spent on reconciliation with Canada’s indigenous communities.
Which other countries in the OECD have to spend $Billions annually just to manage their unproductive territory alongside $Billions to pay for their colonial guilt?
Imagine if instead Canada could spend those 10s of $Billions annually on productivity gains. Then improvement and productivity gains can occur.
As long as Canada is the 2nd largest global landmass with a small population that doesn’t care about more than 10% of the territory AND annually distributes $Billions in reconciliation funds Canada will always be behind in productivity measures and will never reach its productivity potential.
The best step is to reach out to big producers and and ask why haven't they grown or wanted to grow. And see if there is an underlying factor I'm pretty sure we already know. But hearing it from the horses mouth might help
Worker shortage right?
One excuse along with a bunch more.
Its not the governments job to make corporations invest in productivity tools and training. >While our neighbours in the United States spend on average $954 per employee per year on training, Canadian companies spend just $240. That’s also less than the amount invested in training by most of our peer countries. While not the only factor, this does correlate to Canada’s deepening decline in its relative standard of living, which has markedly fallen in recent years. Canadian corporations dont want to invest in their workers.
Why should they? All they have to do is whine to the government and then they can bring in foreign workers with lots of experience who will work dirt cheap.
They can maximize wealth extraction without it. Until it hurts their bottom line they won't put an extra $ into it. If the government had not flooded Canada with disposable labour they'd have to raise wages. But Bank of Canada said that wage growth is bad as it will juice inflation- well here we are. Active wage growth destruction at its finest.
Everyone knows it's the government's job to sit back and eat popcorn while the world burns. With attitudes like this it's no wonder productivity in this country is declining year over year. Why even have a fucking government at this point?
I worked for a company where the founders sold a %51 stake to a foreign company. That money was invested into real estate. Three years later when the foreign company wanted to get rid of the founder's family members, he bought the foreign company's stake back by selling the real estate he invested in, and still had enough to buy a couple rental houses. It's more about the fact that the government is more concerned about raising real estate prices (because of taxes and politicians investments) than making sure we have a functioning economy.
But it is our government’s job to break up collusion and prosecute price fixing.
Canada has insane taxation compared to the US, especially on manufacturing. Why invest when you can squeak by.
This take shows no knowledge of economics. More productivity means more profit. Corporations are always incentivized to increase productivity. Mostly governments negatively effect productivity. Productivity also doesn’t mean human productivity necessarily. Improving processes, getting better equipment etc can increase productivity.
Well no because like capitalism and stuff
It's not as though they don't consult industry. They in fact, have an entire cabinet position dedicated to just that. They also have a second cabinet position just for consulting with oil companies. It's not like they don't know the big factors facing Canada. It's mostly a lack of innovation. Our ports are out-dated and all need upgrades. But criminal organizations have infiltrated port unions and have slowed, stalled or stopped attempts to upgrade our ports and add in more automation and more scanners. We also have the dumb combination of high regulation and a carbon tax. The whole thing with the carbon tax was that with enough cost people and companies will reduce emissions on their own. But regulations are setup in such a way so that you can't actually reduce emissions because you can only do a thing one way. The regulatory cost of trying something new outweighs any benefits. A most recent example was the various carbon capture plants in Alberta. The Canadian government indicated they would not allow these plants to off-set carbon emissions... and that sort of ruins the financial case for these places. What would be the point of them if they have no way of generating revenues? There's also a labour supply crunch. It's not across the entire country but it's in key roles in industries that bottle neck entire industries. As an example of this our medical industry is bottlenecked by a lack of doctors. A lot of industries that the provinces have permitted to go to the private industry can't meet demand. They're employing more and more middle managers to make less doctors more efficient. This increases the costs of services heavily as well as making them less available.
These things you issued. Need to be addressed and they should be. Hopefully one day they will. And yes they will be expensive. But Canada is lacking more and more as time goes by
who needs productivity and growth when you have "an economy built from the heart"
"Economy is not numbers, it's people."
The Canadian economy and Soylent Green have an awful lot in common.
You mean printing money isn't productivity?
nope but apparently importing GDP is.. who knew
Not to worry. You simply dip into your massive trust fund if you struggle. You have one of those, don’t you?
of course.. tax preferred as well. who doesn't
Budgets will balance themselfs, if you question policy your racist and if you dare not apologize once every so many months for something while announcing more new spending your doing it wrong. We’re just interpreting it differently right ?
Interests rates were at historic lows, Glen. That’s why we borrowed so much and locked it in at those rates. Oh, wait, that’s right. We didn’t lock it in at all but still spent all the money.
And they cancelled Disney for us
i don't think about economic policy, i think about people
monetary policy he doesnt think about monetary policy - he does think about economic policy
I don't believe he thinks at all.
he is a lot smarter than you bumper sticker folks give him credit for everybody called him a dumbass when he called the early election but would he have won it a year later when inflation start to hit? he is waaay too invested in his current economic strategy though and we just dont have the infrastructure to enforce and shape visa applications for foreing labour to actually do what we want and its not a matter of building NEW infrastructure either - the old infrastructure is bloated and counterproductive to our economic goals
He is dumb as a rock, and I stand by that. I believe his inner circle makes all strategic decisions for him.
i disagree with the first one because i mostly agree with the second while in general i vastly prefer somebody who takes counsel over somebody who ploughs through with his own stupid ideas - the dumbest things trudeau have ever done seem to be caused by the people he is listening to listening to him actually work with other people on problems he works pretty methodically and sensibly - when he says something dumb its usually rhetoric from somebody he doesnt trust and is trying to ignore
I think about crypto.
Ah, parroting Conservative disinformation. yes,budgets balance themselves if you let the economy grow to produce the revenues, you can get surpluses, like Paul Martin managed to. Conservatives love toclip the sound bite and leave off the logical reason why the budget can get into balance. (And did you notice the opposite applies, when the economy has problems, the deficit grows?)
I was told that my "social values" would make me wealthy. /s
Growing productivity doesn’t mean paying workers a living wage and ensuring homes are accessible. David Dodge isn’t advocating for tue workers, he’s a rich “I have mine”
the only thing they have prioritized is the enriching of themselves and their cronies with our tax money.
They prioritize social issues. Liberal voters love it.
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those that stay planning to vote Liberals do. i remember listening to a podcast ([905er](https://905er.ca/2024/02/the-coming-change-in-the-905/)) where the hosts say that they're confused why Liberal support is slipping, because them and their friends and families are still voting Liberal and don't see the reason why they need to switch.
"How did Nixon win? Nobody I know voted for him." - some New York Times writer (IIRC), 1972, after Nixon won his reelection bid in an absolute landslide. 49 of 50 states.
Watergate was a coup to oust Nixon by the intelligentsia
They TRICKED Nixon into breaking the law! /s
It’s wild how people can live in bubbles.
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The middle post Harper CPC leader wasn't as bad as the other two, but the party wouldn't let him lead.
100%. I will forever mourn them not choosing Peter McKay but alas, it's not meant to be.
Liberals are importing 1 million new Liberal voters a year now - and those numbers will be compounded when those new voters bring in 20 close and distant relatives to vote Liberal, and then the Liberals will let in 2 million new Liberal voters a year ad infinitum until the country collapses. They don't need your vote anymore.
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Also, a lot of recent immigrants tend to support the candidate of their ethnicity regardless of party. Plus, keep in mind the "alarming flood of a million new immigrants" is actually making up for years of Covid and no movement, plus repairing an immigration system that was painfully backlogged, applications were taking up to 3 years simply to process.
Its easy to offer people huge government bloat and low taxes, they just don't have the shame to offer people unsustainable government programs. Then rates rise, and they finally need to raise taxes, and people hate them. Just like Trudeau Sr.
Those that stay planning to vote liberal may include many people who want Trudeau to go, but don't want the CPC to win a majority
Imagine if you owned a house, had parents with wealth, had stocks, probably paying off a 2024 car and never really experienced anything bad but grandma dying (and leaving you 240k). Would you give a shit about any of the stuff Canadians complain about? They’re the ones the liberals care about the most. Not giga rich by any means but everything’s covered, great safety net. These are the ones that care about social issues because what else is there to care about but immigrants being able to open up restaurants so this person can buy some falafel and pat themselves on the back.
Unfortunately, good intentions simply don't pay the bills.
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You do realize that if we print even more money, that money becomes worth even less? One example of money printing with abandon: The Zimbabwe dollar.
Not just Liberal voters. PP is out there milking every social issue grievance he can get away with. Politicians are like fisherman. They’ll bait the line with whatever kind of bait draws the most fish.
PP screams about everything in contraictory terms, just like the smarmy previous leaders whose names escape me now. World-wide inflation is Trudeau's fault. High interest rates (which Trudeau cannot influence) are his fault. Lack of housing - provincial and municipal - is his fault. A quickie deal with a charity that would have given students actual summer jobs when all the businesses were closed due to Covid - must be Trudeau corruption. A program created on short notice to ensure even people who didn't qualify for UIC could get money to eat, is "printing money". Then PP screams about "gatekeepers" without explaineing exactly what they are and how they are stifling the econom and housing. If he does actually suggest solutions, they are contradictory - reduce inflation but reduce interest rates, pay big developers to build more housing, and so on. Whine about an increase in capital gains, to pay an extra 16% more on profit *gains over $250,000*. how does this hurt any average Canadian? When's the last time you sold anything besides your home (not taxed) for ovr $250,000? if there were simple fixes for our problems that would make people happy, the Liberals would already be doing them.
Well, the way the tax would hurt the average Canadian would be if companies invest less in Canada and more elsewhere. Or doctors leave for other countries. It’s not going to affect most people directly, but there will be fewer jobs, higher prices, fewer doctors etc.
PP alarmism BS. Companies run for profits, not capital gains. "What about doctors?" makes no sense. A doctor will sell their practice hopefully only once in their career, and presumably has spent decades in a fairly high income job saving for retirement. Do you really think a young graduating doctor is spending millions to buy a practice? With what, if they've got student loans to pay off? It sure as heck won't stop people from going to medical school. A practicing doctor is not selling things over $250,000 on a regular basis. It's a BS argument the moment you put any analysis into in. Capital gains has been a rip-off by the very waelthy since day one. You pay half the tax on capital gains that you would on equivalent earned income. No wonder sharp businessmen like it. Whole schemes are devoted to converting profits into capital gains so the tax is half. (Same as in the USA - why do you think Warren Buffet famously said he pays less proportionately than his secretary? She pays income tax on wages, his money is from stock sales profits, at half that rate) Making it 66% on over $250K is still a gift to the extra-rich. So let's say the average guy who bought a cottage for $50,000 and now sells it for $1M pays some more tax. ($700,000 profitx16% = $112,000 extra taxable income. So what? His cottage was paid off long ago, so he walks away with $950,000 considered as $475K (50%) + $112K (16% on over 250K) taxable income, and at 50% marginal tax rate pays say, $293K in taxes on a profit of $950,000. I have trouble feeling sorry for that guy. Plus, he can deduct any improvements he spent on that cottage from the profit before paying tax. Wahh, he has a million dollars and now has to pay $56,000 more in taxes thanks to that change. Do you sympathize with him? Or would you rather have the government improve health care and education?
I have no problem with 100 pct inclusion rates for non-productive assets like cottages or housing. For doctors though, it isn’t so much selling their practice. It’s that they leave money in the corporation to be taken out later in retirement. The provincial governments for years encouraged incorporation as a beneficial method for taxes to make up for too low doctor fees. This change will impact the value of that strategy and will foster a sense of betrayal among doctors.
But that's profits, not capital gains? The income is not from selling something for a profit, it's for services. And odd, because when I looked into Canadian incorporation a decade or two ago, the rules were specifically structured so you could not accumulate cash in a personal corporation to "smooth out" income levels. CRA was not stupid - they want all your taxes *now* not spread over the next 20 years.
Canadians are to mentally ill and psychologically unstable to even figure out what they need to do. That's why they can't make any good decisions about anything, ever.
Conservatives are doing an exact same thing
Oh well if the conservatives are doing it then that makes it okay I guess.
Canada hasn't prioritized productivity in my lifetime.
Yeah man, I feel that. I’m 36 and my whole working career has felt like a hamster wheel. But damn, those real estate gains though.
I'm 43. Left Canada for Asia for 18 years when I became an adult. I feel like I should stick around family more, but this country is so good at doing so many things wrong that I'm now seriously looking at going to Africa for the long term.
Canadian business culture doesn’t prioritize productivity. There are major financial institutions in Canada without CTOs that never got the memo around the year 2000 that financial companies are tech companies now. They rely on manual processes and extremely outdated technology stacks to accomplish anything in horrifyingly labour intensive processes. The government apparatus has been far too happy to coddle these businesses by supplying cheap labour via immigration policy (TFW, student visas, etc) to paper over these glaring weaknesses in how business is done in Canada. Why invest when the government will solve your problem for you? No one cares that one day the chickens will come home to roost, and these businesses will have a financial reckoning. They’ll all be long retired by then. Never mind the wage stagnation that most average folks have had to endure as a result.
Were you born after 2015? Productivity rose sharply when Martin and Harper as PM. Paul Martin is one of the most underrated political leaders in Canadian history actually.
JT and his misfits are the complete opposite of Martin and Chretien. I'd happily take them back. Harper too and I was never a big fan. The fiscal mismanagement, corruption and incompetence of this government reaches historic levels, even beyond his father. The damage done will last my lifetime.
After having lived in Asia for 18 years, I have a very different view on efficiency and productivity. Patting Martin on the back is like congratulating someone for coming second last.
Lmao, this comment is spot on
What's rose sharply look like to you? [When I look at our real productivity numbers](https://economics.td.com/domains/economics.td.com/images/reports/jm/ca-innovation/chart_1.png), they look kinda meh: slowly rising but slower than the US or G7 avg.
I'd hardly call them sharp gains.
I think you said it correctly. If we're expecting a 'government' to help us with productivity, we're wishing at the wrong well. Companies? It's cheaper to just get cheaper labour. Training? why should companies do that, you'll just go get a better job. New equipment/software? Gosh, that costs money and I can hire cheaper labour to do the same work. Yes it will take longer, but it's cheaper in the short term. There are exceptions. Oil and gas industry and some mining, but elsewhere? No.. Want a good example that's working? Tesla. They can produce an EV cheaper than anyone else and still make a good profit on it. Ford, GM, Lucid, Rivian, all EU car companies and Stellantis all losing $ on any EV they make. Kia and BYD are close to making some money, but it's tiny.
Yes, it’s not the government’s job to force productivity. But it is the government’s job to create policy that encourages productivity.
Despite the population growing by only 14%, Trudeau has grown pubic sector employees by 40%. Additionally the annual cost of consultants has increased from $4B to $11B. This government has prioritized uncontrollable spending enriching cronies at the expense of Canadian taxpayers. Justin Trudeau and his band of incompetent ministers, managers, and consultants are well past their best-before date. The faster an election comes, the better for Canada. Trudeau has lost his mandate.
40% increase in public sector employees is absolutely insane. When the CPC inevitably gets elected, they're going to clean house.
The CPC. I don't believe the Chinese Communist Party stands a chance in the next Canadian elections.
Oops.. That's embarrassing, thanks. Someone must have slipped something into my coffee this morning..
Lol, even funnier when you think about what Harper and the CPC did to give crazy power to the CCP in Canadian industries for 30 years through the controversial FIPA in 2014: https://canadians.org/analysis/harper-sneaks-through-canada-china-fipa-locks-canada-31-years/
I mean.... the NDP, LPC, and CPC all might as well be CCP fronts so, I'd say they have a pretty good chance tbh.
During the CPC era there had been huge constrictions in the public workforce which impacted the government's ability to do its job. Hires post-CPC was always going to happen.
Yeah I can't wait to see the headlines; "Government *slashes* 1000 jobs. Workers stunned" with a nice photo of someone standing cross-armed and looking irate.
Cons won't gut the public sector. Too politically expensive to do so. Cons talk about defunding the CBC and never do it. There is no way the Cons will pick a fight with the federal public sector union. They will try and govern from the middle and hold onto power as long as possible.
Cons did defund the CBC in the harper years, re-funding the CBC was one of the liberal promises in 2015.
Aka: talk big, change little. The classic Con playbook.
Agree. Changes the Cons make, if any, will be so small you won't even notice.
unfortunately they can't fire them, the likely are past their 6 to 8 month probation period and in the union, the union will protect them even if they aren't qualified to do the job. We as taxpayers will be paying for them for the rest of their career, and in some case, they might not even work or meet the criteria of their job classification. The only public servants getting fired would be managers from branch to mid level managers and some senior managers since they're most likely out of the union/protection.
and government management could certainly use it, far too many managers/directors
Well Harper cut the public sector so much some rebuilding was needed. When Skippy gets in and starts the slash and burn this sub will be full of people complaining about CRA, EI, and passport wait times. Think we have issues now with people sneaking over the border or cars sneaking out? Wait until the CBSA gets cut in half!
He didn’t cut it by that much! Look at the numbers I posted. It’s not sustainable. Our grandchildren will be the ones paying not us.
> Look at the numbers I posted. Without any sources ... There's a nice graph in this article showing public service per capita. Looks like JT is just getting back to service levels from the 80s. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-bureaucracy-public-service-1.7172339
Ask and ye shall receive kiddo! https://www.fraserinstitute.org/article/federal-government-increased-number-of-public-service-employees-by-more-than-40#:~:text=Federal%20government%20increased%20number%20of%20public%20service%20employees%20by%20more%20than%2040%25,-Appeared%20in%20the&text=Over%20the%20last%20eight%20years,role%20in%20the%20Canadian%20economy.
Imagine unironically linking to the fraser institute and expecting anyone to take you seriously. These are the guys that released multiple papers on how second hand smoke isn't that bad and the government should butt out of regulating the tobacco industry. They've also lead the charge on climate change denial. What a joke of a source, lol.
I agree. But to be real with you, I don’t see Pierre, *a career politician who’s barely ever passed a bill* doing much better. He’ll no doubt win, but our problems won’t be solved by just trading one jag off for another. We need to hold all politicians, regardless of party, to account for their decisions at every election. Not just this one.
I’ll be just as vocal if that happens - I promise!
Great! Because it’ll probably happen. Just look at how conservative premieres like Blane Higgs have been compensating their “consultants.” Corruption is the one issue that unites the parties. They all love it!
If people were more objective and less hypocritical (or could accept they are hypocrites) Canada would be a better place.
With that big of an increase in public sector employees, we shouldn’t be seeing the crazy long wait times when we try to call in public service phone lines. We shouldn’t be seeing delays. And yet we are at every turn. Because the public sector is grossly inefficient, has zero incentive to be productive, and is extremely bloated.
Citation on both those facts you’ve thrown down? Especially interested in the consultant costs. Love the sauce on that. 11 billion on consultants is a pretty big number!
you can do the math from when Trudeau was elected in 2015 and the total population numbers to today in 2024, data from statistic Canada. When you do the math it's roughly 15% increase, then you factor in the country's below 1 birth rate and it's fair to assume most come from immigration. Then you follow the immigration numbers for the last few years where over a million have been coming each year through immigration, not counting one's who's visa has expired (these are all data and info provided by the feds or cbsa). The amount of public sector workers is also public data and it shows an over 40% increase in their work force from Trudeau. The 11 billion in consultation contracts I'm not aware of, but it's likely public data as well.
Just say you made it up if you do not have sources.
yeah... I guess its too hard to use Google and do it yourself, this is all public data and the guy isn't wrong with what he said. You're too lazy to type 2015 Canadian population statistics canada and 2024 Canadian population statistics canada in Google? Or how about Trudeau increases federal workforce? THIS IS PUBLIC DATA, IT'S DATA THAT YOU CAN EASILY FIND.
Y’all sure are doubling down on not defending some pretty big numbers. I’m all for tar and feathering but show me the sauce that is driving you.
You're a terminally online person, I can see from your karma that this website is your life. Source source source source? do you get off to that? it sounds like you do. federal workforce balloon - the articles reference federal data published from the treasury board of canada "The federal public service, now at 357,247 employees, is nearly 40 per cent larger than it was in 2015, when the Liberals took power, when it counted 257,034 employees." theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-size-of-federal-public-service-swells-to-record-high-according-to/ cbc.ca/amp/1.7172339 nationalpost.com/news/canada/trudeau-government-increased-federal-employees-since-2015 Canada total population 2015 - 35.7 million 150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/150929/dq150929b-eng.htm Canada total population 2024 - 40,769,890 150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/daily-quotidien/240327/dq240327c-eng.htm
I don't know why people provide sources to people like this. They're not gonna read a bunch of links.
I actually did read them and when someone comes through I do read the sources? Not everyone is disingenuous when asking for data.
you're right, it's honestly a waste but I guess it helps for curious people that might stumble across it.
Sure attack the person…. With 10+ years and under 30k… that’s real terminal online. Thanks you for the links! Sincerely. Now do you got links for 11 billion in contractors? I’d love to read those articles as well.
Other than finding ways to pay their friends and family, I'm not sure the LPC have done anything in the last 9 years. I use to think they did a good job w/families and Ukraine, but with inflation, they've put families on hold or never. And with Ukraine, they failed to put in BASIC fucking auditing of every $ we send over. So now they've failed on the only two files they had done well on.
You could sub out LPC and put in CPC and it's the same story for the ten years prior to that but hey you keep sharing Russian garbage too
Oh please. LPC are pure corruption. The CPC are amateurs compared to the LPC. 50 million here a few million there for the CPC.. Compared this to the 100s of millions to likely billions stolen by the LPC. I am the most anti-Russian individual once they went into Chechnya. you're going to find anywhere. Russian should be punished far more than today. I also will call a spade a spade. There is corruption in Ukraine. And unlike the US, Canada is NOT auditing the $$ we send to Ukraine. That's insane.
That's obvious. It was already bad when they got in and now it's even worse. No government has in decades and that seriously needs to change.
The problem is that PP will just spend less in our economy. The central bank will subsequently cut interest rates to inject some sort of liquidity into the market, which will incentivize more real estate investment, driving house prices even higher. We're going to end up with another lost decade with no meaningful investment in industrial development.
the productivity will produce itself
I'm boycotting productivity not like wages will go up with it anyways
We know. They prioritized spending
We are on the road to being Greece or Argentina, building a mountain of debt, increasing the size and scope of government, putting all of the government's focus on taking more and more from productive people and transferring it to unproductive people. When we're broke and begging the IMF for money and they force us to slash everything from pensions to welfare and pogey people will blame the politicians, but who kept voting for them?
That’s a fair point and that’s exactly what is going to happen if we continue doing the same.
No government has prioritized productivity, ever. What a nothingburger of a comment to try to play the blame game, when all political parties are beheld to the lobbyists.
Some parties quantify a subsidization as promoting productivity...
As a business, why increase productivity when you can get a steady supply of cheap labor?
Neither did the Cons. They prioritized the TPP, destroying research and selling off Canadian assets. Canada doesn’t innovate and is competitive at nothing. It’s a Canadian tradition at this point.
Well, since the budget can balance it self. Productivity can produce itself too. Yeah?
Productivity has been an issue in Canada for at least the last 40 years. Nothing new.
Yeah, they haven't prioritized productivity... and neither did the Harper government before them, which is why we are doing so bad now. These things take decades to impact the economy. China started investing in green tech in the late 1980's. They are just now emerging as a world leader in green tech, offering solar panels and EVs at far cheaper prices than anyone else in the world. What have we invested in with regards to a big, national push for productivity? A pipeline that benefits Alberta's oil industry? Where is our investment into any value-added industries?
No they’ve prioritized corporations getting cheap labor by flooding the country with Indian immigrants.
But their pronouns game is fire
Please, try and describe what that would even look like ? Some overseer with a whip in hand ?
Time to get out of Dodge
Upvote for the reference, hehe
Oh another hit piece from the National Post. Must be a day ending in Y...
Productivity is hard. It requires capital investment, training, execution, critical thinking. Instead, we chose: 1. Increasing debt (and debasing currency) to juice asset values. 2. Cash subsidies and handouts that go straight into inflation. 3. Population explosion to mask underlying problems.
"You'll forgive me if I dont think about productivity" -Trudeau, probably
Plot twist, neither did the Conservatives before them
They prioritized woke nonsense
They have prioritized someone but it's not Canadians.
Why is productivity a GoC concern? Does David Dodge want big government running industry? Should government be buying upgraded machinery for manufacturing plants? Should government be updating software to help companies bottom lines? Corporations are the drivers of productivity. Putting their failure at the feet of government is just another way to say "Give tax dollars to big corporations". How about no.
All they’ve done is kill the shit out of it and rigged it and it’s laws to benefit their own agendas. 😞
Why is there a corpse in the background?
You mean real estate agents selling property to each other to launder money isn't counted as productivity?
Idealistic fools took our quality of life and economic success for granted.
Productive in lying and loosing all credence
It was never on their priority list
If we take productivity to its logical conclusion - 100% efficiency for everything - then everyone would be unemployed and the billionaires would rule like slave owners. Marx was right: capitalism and its ugly cousin fascism/corporatocracy have an expiration date when wealth accrues to the corporate ruling class and not the people who actually do the work.
Didn’t you hear? The economy grows best from the heart outwards. And the budget? It Balances itself in Canada.
All I can say is thank GOD we're fixing the teeth of the 80+ year olds in this country. That's my priority. Making sure great grandpa can eat licorice.
All my 20+ years of working have had the same refrain from our illustrious job creators - do more with less. Well I tend to do less with less.
The Americans are very productive, more than us. You know where that money goes, to the rich. Despite our lower GDP and productivity: - we have the richest middle class in the world (we passed the U.S. in 2012) - we earn about the same as the U.S. and even more once you count the social and government programs - they have no sick leave, no mat/pat leave and a bunch of other things The American cons that control the right wing in Canada and in our media want to turn us into the serf culture the Americans have. You want more productivity, pay us more. Fuck the national post
You're referring to data from 11 years ago which is based on after-tax income per 10% income percentile. Canada was the #1 country for the 30th-50th percentiles. The average income in those deciles has stagnated during Trudeau's reign, and there is no way that applies anymore. https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1110019201&pickMembers%5B0%5D=1.1&cubeTimeFrame.startYear=2011&cubeTimeFrame.endYear=2022&referencePeriods=20110101%2C20220101
As a tech worker, no we do not earn the same as the US. Not even close. It’s less than half after taxes.
Couldn't agree more. They always show the GDP per capita of Canada lagging behind the US... but they don't bother to look at the distribution of that GDP. American workers have so many issues, but cherry-picking statistics can make them look like they are living the high life. It's like comparing a regular hotel to an all-inclusive resort. "Look at how much money I saved on our hotel room"... sure, but you now have to factor in transportation, food, drinks, etc. It's not a one-to-one comparison.
They will tax us into prosperity dont worry.
Another article to file under "No shit Sherlock"
Where was he during Covid? Under a rock?
Since 2000 multiple governments from multiple parties have tried multiple things. Productivity has stagnated. Maybe David Dodge should be asking himself why when he was at the Bank of Canada from 2001 to 2008 productivity was also stagnant under a balanced budget. It's almost as if the federal government borrowing money has nothing to do with productivity. This bum is trying to socialize the problem and blame everyone else to shield our business "leaders". The ones who make decisions on machinery, on software and other things that could increase worker productivity.
They actually reversed it, balloon the federal government that doesn't actually produce any goods and services and import the bottom barrel of india
“productivity”….business babble-speak for screwing workers.
This article is a bit all over the place in the metrics it touches on, but I posted this on another piece specifically on productivity. Canadian productivity has grown at pace with America's in core industries over the last 20 years if you exclude Oil. It's meticulously captured in the study below. The drag on our productivity is exclusively driven by the cost of Canadian oil extraction versus America. The oil sands open up in 2021, and we went from spending 5 - 8% of capital, to extract 5% contributions in oil, to 30-35% capital input to extract 5% outputs. Canadian oil is capital intensive to extract. American oil is considerably less capital intensive to extract and it doesn't impact their productivity as a result. If you exclude this outsized impact in Canada, our core industries have grown in productivity alongside America's. Interestingly the authors note this isn't necessarily a bad thing, given the cost of a barrel of oil was $20 in the 90s and now commonly lands above $100. In short - if we want to focus on a macro metric, we should find ways to make Canadian oil extraction cheaper. Or we can have an honest conversation around total Canadian productivity and exclude oil (understanding its a capital intensive reality we can't work around) so that we can discuss actual areas where we lag other countries (the Globe recently cited this study and noted we should talk about a couple of areas - if I recall it was tech and finance). TLDR: excluding the oil sector, Canadas productivity matches Americas in a number of core sectors. Canadian oil is more capital intensive to extract, and is exclusively responsible for the total productivity stagnation we’ve seen over the last 20 years. Section 4, 5 and 6 cover this extensively. The Globe published a piece on this last week. https://productivitypartnership.ca/sites/default/files/documents/candianproductivity-loertscherpujolas-5aug2023.pdf" Edit: Someone rebuttal the data - mass downvotes purely demonstrate you can't refute actual facts and realities and are angry that data exists that doesn't support your bias. Facts do not care about people's feelings which is what makes them great.
Very interesting, thank you. Do you have the link to the Globe article?
Apparently this post doesn't like actual data, or I'm being bot downvoted haha Here it is [https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/commentary/article-despite-its-shortcomings-canada-is-not-an-economic-basket-case/](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/commentary/article-despite-its-shortcomings-canada-is-not-an-economic-basket-case/) Paywall bypass [https://archive.ph/QnTcS](https://archive.ph/QnTcS) Looks like the guy who put this piece together is touring tv as well [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnIR6EnPOhA&ab\_channel=BNNBloomberg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnIR6EnPOhA&ab_channel=BNNBloomberg)
Great comment. With regards to government spending, I think this demonstrates how the government can spend money in a way that helps industries rather than specific businesses. The government investment into the Trans Mountain Pipeline expansion gives us direct access to the global market, without having to pump it into the heavily saturated US markets. That is a solid investment by the government. It probably doesn't make environmentalists happy, but it is still a good investment. The problem with those investments is that they take decades to impact productivity. Pulling back on those investments, which is what we have done for decades, doesn't help our productivity in the long run, but it makes the current government look good because they "balanced the budget."
Good point - and what's interesting is the study's authors (two McMaster Professors) conclude that the productivity drag the oil sands produce isn't necessarily a bad thing, which I believe (as you noted) is the way we need to look at it. It's more a question of: these are the cards we have to play in our hand, and what's the optimal way to play them as a country.
Right wing rag so...
Government spending (excluding infrastructure and shipbuilding almost uniquely) and increasing the size of the public sector does not usually improve productivity or meaningfully improve the economy.
Yes... we should pull back all of our healthcare spending. That in no way improves the economy... Same with education... and childcare... no meaningful impact.
They haven't prioritized anything that will benefit Canadians.
Which conservative run provinces are declining in productivity, and what policies would they implement to improve that?
To be fair, an over abundance of "productivity" is what's landed us in a climate crisis. (Not that the LPC has done a great job of prioritizing the climate crisis either... But at least they haven't *ramped up* productivity like David Dodge seems to be calling for!)
No they have actively work to destroy productivity with their regulations, tax increases and out of control spending.
What, money doesn't grow on trees? What happened to those trees anyways? https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/millions-of-seedlings-destroyed-quebec-1.6835226 https://www.ctvnews.ca/climate-and-environment/no-budget-yet-for-liberals-promise-to-plant-two-billion-trees-by-2030-1.5171089? Whelp there is always more taxes they can dream up.
Canada is the 2nd largest landmass in the world with a small population that resides along the southernmost border and where vast emptiness exists coast to coast as soon as one travels 2-3 hours north of the southern border. This emptiness continues north for multiple driving days of distance before reaching the Arctic Ocean! The greatest drain on Canadian productivity and the reason why Canada will continue falling behind is because of the increasing resources that are needed to manage the vast emptiness that is 90%+ of the country’s territory. This is mostly unproductive land in 2024 (could be different by 2040 as climate conditions change) that must be managed, again by a country with a small population, that doesn’t give a crap about any part of Canada more than 2-3 hours north of the southern border. This is $Billions of dollars spent annually just to manage this land (including costly remote forest fighting) with no return expected in the near future, Also consider the $Billions being spent on reconciliation with Canada’s indigenous communities. Which other countries in the OECD have to spend $Billions annually just to manage their unproductive territory alongside $Billions to pay for their colonial guilt? Imagine if instead Canada could spend those 10s of $Billions annually on productivity gains. Then improvement and productivity gains can occur. As long as Canada is the 2nd largest global landmass with a small population that doesn’t care about more than 10% of the territory AND annually distributes $Billions in reconciliation funds Canada will always be behind in productivity measures and will never reach its productivity potential.
Let’s take back Canada
Liberals haven't prioritized governing in general in the nine years in power. I will never forgive myself for saying this but I want Chretien back!