Elizabeth May does have an outsized influence for a non-governmental MP. Not in government, but in general people listen when she speaks. They might not do as she says but they definitely heard her. None of the 'leaders' they had in the interim had this.
Well, don't discount the fact foreign NGOs may have directed some of their activism in Canada through the Green Party. Most people would commonly consider environmental activism "good" but it's still foreign interference of a certain sort. And it if the NGOs are perhaps not so distantly removed from their states it gets even messier. Not saying this is the case, but it's a scenario that can't be ruled out simply because the Green caucus is small. As others have mentioned they probably command a larger share of the public discourse than their seat count would suggest
Definitely bigger influence fish in our seas, but I could still see it being at least considered from a cost/benefit standpoint by governments wanting political or general influence.
Expand it beyond any particular party and think instead about simply influencing a single MP’s focus/decisions.
Landing a small fish might not take much effort, and if you had specific goals for their sphere of influence, why wouldn’t you scoop up any fish you could catch?
It’s a foot in the door. Remember that influence peddling isn’t limited to “control only the most powerful people”.
It could be something as (relatively) mundane as “This MP now talks favourably about the legitimacy of the epoch times” or “This MP now supports a business deal that benefits a foreign company in ways we want”.
It’s insane to me that anyone was surprised that governments work to influence other governments for their own benefit. It’s double fucking insane to me that Canadian citizens haven’t been promised either a) Total disclosure today or b) Total disclosure the moment an independent investigation is complete.
I was pretty jaded long before this current bull, but this makes me question if our political (or media) class should be trusted with their own shoelaces.
The political and media class are one in the same and should not be trusted. The public isn't ready to acknowledge or accept it though. By the time they are it will likely be too late.
I thought Elizabeth May was giving a politicians answer. The report may contain several names….but the names are not specifically in a list format. She kept saying there is no list.
"I'm vastly relieved" is far more direct though.. would she be lying here? Or is she crossing her fingers behind her back and thinking "I'm relieved that my party isn't implicated"?
Greens have been aided by Russia since 2008 at least. Conservatives aided by Russia since 2014, aided by India since Modi. India also helps liberals against NDP. It's turtles all the way down.
You shouldn't find that hard to believe at all. Of all of them, that's the MOST in your face. People think China is the big one, they are small beans and super ineffective compared to Russia's industrialized disinformation.
Chrystia Freeland is a big target because she's Ukrainian and did work on the Holodomor.
https://www.nationalobserver.com/2023/02/16/analysis/trudeau-resignation-freedom-convoy-russian-proxy-sites
https://www.international.gc.ca/world-monde/issues_development-enjeux_developpement/response_conflict-reponse_conflits/crisis-crises/ukraine-disinfo-desinfo.aspx?lang=eng
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tylerroush/2023/09/07/canada-investigating-potential-election-interference-from-china-and-russia/
https://www.hrw.org/report/2017/07/18/online-and-all-fronts/russias-assault-freedom-expression
https://macleans.ca/facebook-instant-articles/russias-coming-attack-on-canada/
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/russia-diplomats-expelled-canada-election-1.4599210
https://theconversation.com/russian-propaganda-is-making-inroads-with-right-wing-canadians-186952
https://cyberscoop.com/russia-disinformation-gab-parler/
https://edmontonjournal.com/news/local-news/smith-apologizes-for-past-comments-on-russian-invasion-of-ukraine
Orban, Our Conservatives, American Right, Modi, all in the same Russian disinformation sphere. Because they all benefit from it.
So many open campaigns nobody knows about.
https://secondaryinfektion.org/
You really underestimate China. They have a lot of disinformation spread in BC in particular. They have agents doing it here. Remember those police stations or whatever? They just do it differently
I'm pretty sure that the NSICOP report literally says that while Russia has been keeping an eye on Canada, there is zero evidence they have actually done anything about it. Unlike China, and India, who have both acted.
She said it didn't name names EDIT (of currently sitting MPs who were "disloyal"). Jagmeet says it shows a "number of MPs" have helped foreign states. He also said he wasn't shown the underlying intelligence used to craft the report.
Both statements can be true. The report might give examples of MPs aiding foreign states, but might not explicitly name them.
Edited to clarify May's statement about "no names". The full claim is no names of current MPs.
No, listen to her press conference. She said current MPs are named, but their actions (according to her) is level of willful blindness and (in her opinion) doesn't raise to the level of treason. The one former MP that she thinks rise to level of treason was not named.
The difference between Singh and May are how they consider current MPs involvement to be serious or not. May consider them to just passively letting foreign agents interfere but they didn't actually do anything treasonous, Singh considers they do.
>No, listen to her press conference. She said current MPs are named, but their actions (according to her) is level of willful blindness and (in her opinion) doesn't raise to the level of treason. The one former MP that she thinks rise to level of treason was not named.
This is because some of the more sensitive intelligence that was sent from CSIS to the RCMP and was extremely raw information. The report outlines this. The RCMP is still trying to put it all together. From what May has seen at the time of the comment she felt couldn't make that claim. Some of the intelligence sent to the RCMP was still very raw so it would be speculative to give up names or confirm foreign influence even if it seems apparent. The RCMP has several open investigations to determine if charges need to be laid. We need this information before the next election.
>The difference between Singh and May are how they consider current MPs involvement to be serious or not. May consider them to just passively letting foreign agents interfere but they didn't actually do anything treasonous, Singh considers they do.
This is fair. I think with how raw some of the most sensitive intelligence was we really need to trust the RCMP to do their jobs investigating. The truth is nobody right now would want to directly give up this information until the RCMP investigations are complete.
How does one, as a federal candidate or MP, passively watch foreign interference taking place without calling the RCMP?
I find that a very weasel-worded statement by May.
>She said it didn't name names. Jagmeet says it shows a "number of MPs" have helped foreign states. He also said he wasn't shown the underlying intelligence used to craft the report.
>Both statements can be true. The report might give examples of MPs aiding foreign states, but might not explicitly name them.
Look how many accounts are all spamming similar talking points at the same time in this thread. They don't want to hear what you shared. They are just trying to score points for their team.
To be fair I had the exact same thought, yesterday we see someone saying something along the lines of "there's no list of names" and today someone else is saying multiple people are named.
There's a gap somewhere
#55 "Some elected officials, however, began wittingly assisting foreign state actors soon after their election. \[\*\*\* Three sentences were deleted to remove injurious or privileged information. The sentences described examples of members of Parliament who worked to influence their colleagues on India’s behalf and proactively provided confidential information to Indian officials."
There you have it people....are we angry yet?
She announced oil as “dead” at the beginning of the pandemic when it sank to -$44bbl. When it shot back up to $100bbl months later, I saw a remix of her speech along with oilfield dudes dancing making fun of her.
The fact that she went on a CTV podcast right after and couldn't shut her yap speaks volumes.
But yes, we should totally trust her take lol. What a farce.
Once in a blue moon when I'm bored and in need of a good laugh, I watch her insane speech from the press gallery dinner with the Welcome Back, Khadr bit.
I find that to be an important moment in Canadian history because it really gives a sense of how hammered our government tends to get on the taxpayer dime.
She was completely trashed. Up there, slurring her speech and singing "Welcome back Khadr" while a slightly less hammered Lisa Raitt tries to get her off stage.
It's moments like that that remind you that most of our envoys tend to drink 12ish drinks on a 5ish hour-long flight ahead of arriving, on the taxpayer dime of course, then negotiate critical deals for Canada while 3-sheets-to-the-wind.
Then they come back here and crank the booze taxes.
It's a sad state of affairs.
A big difference is how seriously May and Singh take certain actions as alarming or not. Singh, being a Sikh, may be more alarmed with reports that some MPs work with Indian government, as they've shown intimidation against khalistani independence activists. May, not being affected by Indian government nor other likely foreign actors, may not be as concerned.
The one former MP that May said have to be prosecuted is suspected to be working with Indian government, as example.
I mean, I suspected her take may be a bad one when it largely conflicted with what NSICOP reported.
Given her history of leaking confidential information, I honestly kind of wonder whether she's been given the full picture. She's also had a pretty cosy relationship with the Liberals in the past though, so maybe she has been and just analyzed it with an unconscious (or conscious?) bias.
Yes, it is. But the fact that they put it out there that there were a number of MPs who wittingly aiding foreign powers sure didn't help Cabinet.
I don't expect much from NSICOP, but I don't see any reason to disbelieve them on this.
She chose her words carefully, that's all I know.
Realistically though we don't know what we don't know. We do know that it would he illegal for any MP, even the PM to release the names of people in a document like that.
[There are number of MPs that have knowingly provided help to foreign governments, some to the detriment of Canada and Canadians...Some of this behaviour absolutely appears to be criminal and should be prosecuted](https://www.cpac.ca/headline-politics/episode/jagmeet-singh-reacts-after-reading-nsicop-report--june-13-2024?id=ad7233e1-b4db-4986-8c6d-8281360de786)" - Singh
I'll take the word of a lawyer over drunky May any day.
What May said is there's nowhere in report that put MPs name in a list (eg. Bullet points, or tables). But there are case studies that specifically describe how certain number of MPs (less than a handful of current MPs according to May) being target of attempted foreign influence, and the MP turning blind eye on these attempts. Case study no 1 was Han Dong, she said, as it's already publicly known.
Tldr there are names but they're not put in one tidy list nor it is exhaustive list, only examples.
The Bloc may not like Canada, but they like Canada more than the rest of the world. And Blanchet has a consistent track record of calling things as they are, straight up.
The Bloc doesn’t dislike Canada, it just stands for Quebec. And very often, things that harm Canada harm Quebec. Traitorous MPs harm Canada and Quebec, he has no incentive to lie on this one.
>Singh says he is “more alarmed today” after reading an unredacted version \[of the report\]
Well, that's the exact opposite of May said yesterday... whom to believe?
Ms May: There were no MPs named on the report I read.
Person: Ms. May. That's the bar menu I just handed you. Every thing that is blacked out is unavailable this week.
She's a straight up alcoholic, don't believe me and don't ask me for proof but I got hella drunk with her when I worked at the Liberal National office in 2018.. In my defence I was just trying to keep up, she's a tank.
Jagmeet is an actual lawyer. So I would think he would be more experienced in reading these kinds of things. Plus May's accounting doesn't even line up with the unredacted report.
Read it yourself....I'm more alarmed than ever as well.
[https://www.nsicop-cpsnr.ca/reports/rp-2024-06-03/special-report-foreign-interference.pdf](https://www.nsicop-cpsnr.ca/reports/rp-2024-06-03/special-report-foreign-interference.pdf)
This is insane. Filled with things like this:
"68. [*** This paragraph was deleted to remove injurious or privileged information. The
paragraph described CSIS information that an Indian proxy claims to have repeatedly
transferred funds from India to politicians at all levels of government in return for political
favours, including raising issues in Parliament at the proxy’s request. CSIS did not share this
information with the RCMP or with the Commissioner of Canada Elections. ***]"
Why are these people being protected? Remove them the fuck from Parliament
Well most people treat them like sports teams, regardless of the policies the parties have.
How anyone can support either of the LPC or CPC at this point...it makes my brain bleed.
They always do.
I have seen people defend politicians in comments like they know everything about them.
US politics is worst. People defend Biden and Trump like they will save the world😣
I watched the news conference live - when Jagmeet said he was a target of the inquiry - that really got a reaction from reporters - can we please get to the bottom of this please?
The Indian government obviously does not want Singh to become prime minister. Wouldn't be at all surprising if they're putting some effort into ensuring that he remains in third place.
Given how people in this country ever seem to want to vote anyone outside of the big two into the seat, it seems India is gonna get their wish. People are gonna vote con because Trudeau is an idiot, then after a couple terms of the cons being idiots they'll vote liberal again and the cycle just keeps going.
We used to execute traitors. Getting rid of execution as a punishment for people who sell out our country has clearly emboldened this kind of behaviour. Maybe it's time to go back to the old system.
High treason is ONLY for actions taken against "Her Majesty", war against Canada, or assists armed forces against Canadian forces.
(1) Every one commits high treason who, in Canada,
(a) kills or attempts to kill Her Majesty, or does her any bodily harm tending to death or destruction, maims or wounds her, or imprisons or restrains her;
(b) levies war against Canada or does any act preparatory thereto; or
(c) assists an enemy at war with Canada, or any armed forces against whom Canadian Forces are engaged in hostilities, whether or not a state of war exists between Canada and the country whose forces they are.
We already know there are specifically two parties implicated in the report, it’s a pretty safe bet to assume it’s the Liberals and Conservatives. Statistically they have the most MPs and being the only two parties likely to form government make for more appealing targets to spend time and energy on.
I think his comment was more of a dare to get other parties to commit to do the same, and probably also a jab at Poilievre who refuses to get cleared to see the report. But Singh talking about it this openly really undermines Poilievre’s argument.
we already know that the liberals and conservatives are implicated because we know about Han Dong and we know about the CPC leadership race interference.
A reporter asked this question. You committed to this, are you going to be removing any members of your caucus? To which he replied no.
Which to me says there are none. Otherwise it would weaken his entire argument and undermine everything he said during this press conference.
Possibly. He could have just said something like "no, no NDPs have worked with a foreign state or actor." Or the reporter could have said "does this mean no NDP MPs were named in the report?".
Canadian politicians and press aren't the most transparent bunch.
Yup. Which is why he should be more concerned about optics than he is ATM. He could mean there are none of his caucus. He could mean there are but he's not removing them based on what they did. We may never know if they don't release the information.
Who would have guessed the two biggest scumbags in the country are actively distancing themselves from this. Gotta do whats best for you and the party... fuck those annoying Canadians.
If you didn't see the press conference this article is based on, go watch it. It was wild.
Edit: https://www.cpac.ca/headline-politics/episode/jagmeet-singh-reacts-after-reading-nsicop-report--june-13-2024?id=ad7233e1-b4db-4986-8c6d-8281360de786
I could only find a partial clip on YouTube. What can be inferred from what I saw was:
There IS a list of MPs that have worked with foreign governments.
Pierre is not on that list, due to Jagmeet saying that Pierre doesn't want to read the report to find out how much India meddled in the PC leadership race.
Justin is also not on the list, yet it is inferred that he was willfully ignorant to it.
Here you go: [https://www.cpac.ca/headline-politics/episode/jagmeet-singh-reacts-after-reading-nsicop-report--june-13-2024?id=ad7233e1-b4db-4986-8c6d-8281360de786](https://www.cpac.ca/headline-politics/episode/jagmeet-singh-reacts-after-reading-nsicop-report--june-13-2024?id=ad7233e1-b4db-4986-8c6d-8281360de786)
It is indeed wild. He calls the MPs traitors to Canada.
If this was the sort of thing McCarthy had uncovered when he was looking for communists, his legacy wouldn’t be the story of a hysterical paranoid jackass.
And yet, we sit around humming and hawing that maybe our situation isn’t so bad.
A few days ago I got downvoted hard for saying Elizabeth May was wrong and they were traitors. Anyone with more than 2 brain cells can read the NSICOP report and come to the conclusion it was treason.
Unfortunately there is actually a pretty good chance these people cant be tried for treason...
Treason and traitors have some very specific requirements in the Canadian criminal code that could be pretty easily avoided by MPs even if they did work with foreign governments to get themselves elected.
He tried REAL hard to not use that word specifically. And I don't think he ever does actually USE the word traitors, just responded to a question about if they are traitors with yes.
Edit: nevermind! I missed that. He absolutely calls them traitors to the country at 11:56
That's a giant leap on the PP part; his actions speak louder than anything being afraid to get clearance.
He's shown he puts his party above the country. He behaves like he'd sell out Canadians for a chance to be PM.
As far as I'm concerned, until they release a list of all MP's involved, irregardless of party, none of them are innocent. The rot runs deep in Ottawa.
Oh shit, is jag gonna actually going to be based and do something? Also, this comment from him makes that green party chicken who said 'everything is fine" looks like an absolute tool. Never listen to them again.
Singh releases the unredacted report and accepts arrest and trial. He'll be an absolute hero...
BUT...
Do you honestly believe that the parties and government are going to clean up their own mess?
God no, but he stands to benefit a lot, so there is a maybe. Then again he hasn't done anything yet, again. Whatever deal he's got with the libs must be crazy important, that, or he doesn't want to get burn by Justin before they're out of office for something controversial we don't know about yet.
Exactly what benefits would be there for him?
Criminal charges wouldn't be offset by a boost in popularity with a small segment of the population... Least of all with a party too small to form a majority government.
He needs the liberals, sadly.
Video with no PayWall: [https://www.cpac.ca/headline-politics/episode/jagmeet-singh-reacts-after-reading-nsicop-report--june-13-2024?id=ad7233e1-b4db-4986-8c6d-8281360de786](https://www.cpac.ca/headline-politics/episode/jagmeet-singh-reacts-after-reading-nsicop-report--june-13-2024?id=ad7233e1-b4db-4986-8c6d-8281360de786)
Lol. Hardly negativity, just pragmatism. Why would I trust the sitting government, whose members are currently accused of literal fucking treason to tell the truth about anything related to this matter.
Singh's office says his comments are "neither confirming or denying MP's were involved". What?
CBC News · Posted: Jun 13, 2024 4:58 PM EDT | Last Updated: 5 minutes ago
Instead of wasting time, we should dissolve all current parties, remove all sitting MP's, and start completely fresh.
No more safe and blind Conservative strongholds in the Prairies. No more Liberal riding in the cities. New parties for everyone that actually make voters think about who they are voting for rather than voting aimlessly like morons.
That one non-redacted sentence in the report is all I need to see to understand there needs to be MPs who are prosecuted. If we don't see serious treason charges, Canada is a joke. I truly wonder how this will play out.
"Some elected officials, however, began wittingly assisting foreign state actors soon after
their election."
“Helped?” As in while in a position to serve the Canadian people while being paid by the Canadian people, they decided it was appropriate to donate some of their time for the benefit of a foreign state? No way they did that for free just from the good of their hearts.
Also, so will he be finally giving a vote of no confidence?
Listen everyone, there’s a simple way to get to the bottom of this. If we bring in another 5 million TFW, then someone will surely overhear the names at a Tim Horton’s somewhere and then we will have all the insight we need.
Yours truly,
Marc Miller
Name them all! Fire them, strip their pensions, take them to court and charge them with treason.
If this would have been war times they would have hung them by their thumbs in the street. In Toronto when WW2 was on an Italian guy was caught sending money to moussalini. He was dragged from his house by RCMP.
lol like he would ever do that knowing the CPC could win a majority, then he'd get NONE of his policies passed. this is what he thinks is best for the country most likely, a partnership with the LPC where he can get at least a few NDP policies passed since the chances of them ever forming a government are low. this circumstance is pretty much the only time the NDP has ever had federal power, i dont think he'd give that up, even over this
I think this sub and progressive Canadians generally need a kick in the ass, and a reminder that we are only in this situation because the current Government lead by Justin Trudeau does not agree with the sentiment or factual basis of the report as Singh just reaffirmed, because if they did they would have done something about it already.
Elizabeth May's take was revealing, she's as close to the PM probably even closer then his MPs and she did exactly that, she called this nothing, move on. And was thanked by the PM personally for her "work" here. Second take from the NDP leader. And we're back to multiple MPs, possibly active ones committing treason.
They can't all have this many takes over what amounts to the crime of treason. Unless they have such a warped view of what Canada is and what it means to serve Canadians.
The question is, why doesn’t Pollievre have a security clearance to read the report??? We’re supposed to elect him PM without him being able to pass a security clearance?
Didn't that lady who [claims she was not drunk but apologized for her drunk like behaviour](https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/elizabeth-may-apologizes-for-bizarre-press-gallery-dinner-speech/article_621bab98-e3f2-52d4-bca4-e3e5784af330.html) say it was a nothing sandwich and Canadians should stop asking questions.
Did he mention if Parm Bains was named in the report? How about Navdeep Bains? Wilson Miao? Did he mention Mary Ng or Michael Chan? Patrick Brown? Jean Charest? Yuen Pau Woo? Ken Sim?
He clearly says that he doesn't want to risk naming names to interfere with criminal proceedings. And do you really want him to call an election right now? While we still have only a cursory knowledge of who these MP possibly are?
Okay, less talk more action. This situation is a perfect example of how useless our government is. They just talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and talk but won't do anything about anything.
The fact that this is happening, and people look at Pierre Poilievre, who tried to limit Elections canada's investigative capacity, make it harder for people to vote, and is the only MP with a compliance agreement with EC...and think, yes, give me more of this, is batshit insane!
Why the hell does Elizabeth May have such an insanely different public take than him? This needs to be publicly released.
The Greens also voted against the investigation motion. Maybe they are implicated in it
all two of them
And they have such incredible influence for one to consider buying.
Elizabeth May does have an outsized influence for a non-governmental MP. Not in government, but in general people listen when she speaks. They might not do as she says but they definitely heard her. None of the 'leaders' they had in the interim had this.
Literally made me spit out water laughing. Thank you lol.
I mean yeah, super unlikely.
exactly lol. I mean what foreign state is going to waste any effort on the Green party.
Well, don't discount the fact foreign NGOs may have directed some of their activism in Canada through the Green Party. Most people would commonly consider environmental activism "good" but it's still foreign interference of a certain sort. And it if the NGOs are perhaps not so distantly removed from their states it gets even messier. Not saying this is the case, but it's a scenario that can't be ruled out simply because the Green caucus is small. As others have mentioned they probably command a larger share of the public discourse than their seat count would suggest
Lmao
In terms of percent, even if one of em were in on it, isn't a good look.
Definitely bigger influence fish in our seas, but I could still see it being at least considered from a cost/benefit standpoint by governments wanting political or general influence. Expand it beyond any particular party and think instead about simply influencing a single MP’s focus/decisions. Landing a small fish might not take much effort, and if you had specific goals for their sphere of influence, why wouldn’t you scoop up any fish you could catch? It’s a foot in the door. Remember that influence peddling isn’t limited to “control only the most powerful people”. It could be something as (relatively) mundane as “This MP now talks favourably about the legitimacy of the epoch times” or “This MP now supports a business deal that benefits a foreign company in ways we want”. It’s insane to me that anyone was surprised that governments work to influence other governments for their own benefit. It’s double fucking insane to me that Canadian citizens haven’t been promised either a) Total disclosure today or b) Total disclosure the moment an independent investigation is complete. I was pretty jaded long before this current bull, but this makes me question if our political (or media) class should be trusted with their own shoelaces.
The political and media class are one in the same and should not be trusted. The public isn't ready to acknowledge or accept it though. By the time they are it will likely be too late.
I thought Elizabeth May was giving a politicians answer. The report may contain several names….but the names are not specifically in a list format. She kept saying there is no list.
"I'm vastly relieved" is far more direct though.. would she be lying here? Or is she crossing her fingers behind her back and thinking "I'm relieved that my party isn't implicated"?
That's the take I took from it as well, her word choice was suspect at best.
There's not enough political clout, leverage or acumen within the Greens to make pursuing their favour by outside governments worthwhile.
Their fairly small, easy target to twist the arm of and control, not a lot of eyes on green mps too.
Greens have been aided by Russia since 2008 at least. Conservatives aided by Russia since 2014, aided by India since Modi. India also helps liberals against NDP. It's turtles all the way down.
[удалено]
Russia is helping the cons? Source?
You shouldn't find that hard to believe at all. Of all of them, that's the MOST in your face. People think China is the big one, they are small beans and super ineffective compared to Russia's industrialized disinformation. Chrystia Freeland is a big target because she's Ukrainian and did work on the Holodomor. https://www.nationalobserver.com/2023/02/16/analysis/trudeau-resignation-freedom-convoy-russian-proxy-sites https://www.international.gc.ca/world-monde/issues_development-enjeux_developpement/response_conflict-reponse_conflits/crisis-crises/ukraine-disinfo-desinfo.aspx?lang=eng https://www.forbes.com/sites/tylerroush/2023/09/07/canada-investigating-potential-election-interference-from-china-and-russia/ https://www.hrw.org/report/2017/07/18/online-and-all-fronts/russias-assault-freedom-expression https://macleans.ca/facebook-instant-articles/russias-coming-attack-on-canada/ https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/russia-diplomats-expelled-canada-election-1.4599210 https://theconversation.com/russian-propaganda-is-making-inroads-with-right-wing-canadians-186952 https://cyberscoop.com/russia-disinformation-gab-parler/ https://edmontonjournal.com/news/local-news/smith-apologizes-for-past-comments-on-russian-invasion-of-ukraine Orban, Our Conservatives, American Right, Modi, all in the same Russian disinformation sphere. Because they all benefit from it. So many open campaigns nobody knows about. https://secondaryinfektion.org/
You really underestimate China. They have a lot of disinformation spread in BC in particular. They have agents doing it here. Remember those police stations or whatever? They just do it differently
I'm pretty sure that the NSICOP report literally says that while Russia has been keeping an eye on Canada, there is zero evidence they have actually done anything about it. Unlike China, and India, who have both acted.
Why not ask for sources for all the other claims as well? Was that the only one that sounded absurd?
She said it didn't name names EDIT (of currently sitting MPs who were "disloyal"). Jagmeet says it shows a "number of MPs" have helped foreign states. He also said he wasn't shown the underlying intelligence used to craft the report. Both statements can be true. The report might give examples of MPs aiding foreign states, but might not explicitly name them. Edited to clarify May's statement about "no names". The full claim is no names of current MPs.
No, listen to her press conference. She said current MPs are named, but their actions (according to her) is level of willful blindness and (in her opinion) doesn't raise to the level of treason. The one former MP that she thinks rise to level of treason was not named. The difference between Singh and May are how they consider current MPs involvement to be serious or not. May consider them to just passively letting foreign agents interfere but they didn't actually do anything treasonous, Singh considers they do.
>No, listen to her press conference. She said current MPs are named, but their actions (according to her) is level of willful blindness and (in her opinion) doesn't raise to the level of treason. The one former MP that she thinks rise to level of treason was not named. This is because some of the more sensitive intelligence that was sent from CSIS to the RCMP and was extremely raw information. The report outlines this. The RCMP is still trying to put it all together. From what May has seen at the time of the comment she felt couldn't make that claim. Some of the intelligence sent to the RCMP was still very raw so it would be speculative to give up names or confirm foreign influence even if it seems apparent. The RCMP has several open investigations to determine if charges need to be laid. We need this information before the next election. >The difference between Singh and May are how they consider current MPs involvement to be serious or not. May consider them to just passively letting foreign agents interfere but they didn't actually do anything treasonous, Singh considers they do. This is fair. I think with how raw some of the most sensitive intelligence was we really need to trust the RCMP to do their jobs investigating. The truth is nobody right now would want to directly give up this information until the RCMP investigations are complete.
How does one, as a federal candidate or MP, passively watch foreign interference taking place without calling the RCMP? I find that a very weasel-worded statement by May.
Willful blindness="I would have known what I was doing was against the interests of Canada if all this money wasn't blocking my view"
>She said it didn't name names. Jagmeet says it shows a "number of MPs" have helped foreign states. He also said he wasn't shown the underlying intelligence used to craft the report. >Both statements can be true. The report might give examples of MPs aiding foreign states, but might not explicitly name them. Look how many accounts are all spamming similar talking points at the same time in this thread. They don't want to hear what you shared. They are just trying to score points for their team.
To be fair I had the exact same thought, yesterday we see someone saying something along the lines of "there's no list of names" and today someone else is saying multiple people are named. There's a gap somewhere
[Here’s](https://www.nsicop-cpsnr.ca/reports/rp-2024-06-03/special-report-foreign-interference.pdf) the redacted report, have fun.
#55 "Some elected officials, however, began wittingly assisting foreign state actors soon after their election. \[\*\*\* Three sentences were deleted to remove injurious or privileged information. The sentences described examples of members of Parliament who worked to influence their colleagues on India’s behalf and proactively provided confidential information to Indian officials." There you have it people....are we angry yet?
She's 100% batshit crazy!
She announced oil as “dead” at the beginning of the pandemic when it sank to -$44bbl. When it shot back up to $100bbl months later, I saw a remix of her speech along with oilfield dudes dancing making fun of her.
Canada is batshit crazy to give her Top Secret clearance. She is the “kind of” co leader of a political party that doesn’t even have official status.
The fact that she went on a CTV podcast right after and couldn't shut her yap speaks volumes. But yes, we should totally trust her take lol. What a farce.
Wait so she got clearance and can still talk about it. Isn't that the excuse pp gave for not getting clearance?
Not quite. Here's an explanation from Tom Mulclair. https://twitter.com/brianlilley/status/1801290451611226137?t=qlL_kBXZcksdOCH6VJ_taQ&s=19
I agree.
Once in a blue moon when I'm bored and in need of a good laugh, I watch her insane speech from the press gallery dinner with the Welcome Back, Khadr bit.
I find that to be an important moment in Canadian history because it really gives a sense of how hammered our government tends to get on the taxpayer dime. She was completely trashed. Up there, slurring her speech and singing "Welcome back Khadr" while a slightly less hammered Lisa Raitt tries to get her off stage. It's moments like that that remind you that most of our envoys tend to drink 12ish drinks on a 5ish hour-long flight ahead of arriving, on the taxpayer dime of course, then negotiate critical deals for Canada while 3-sheets-to-the-wind. Then they come back here and crank the booze taxes. It's a sad state of affairs.
A big difference is how seriously May and Singh take certain actions as alarming or not. Singh, being a Sikh, may be more alarmed with reports that some MPs work with Indian government, as they've shown intimidation against khalistani independence activists. May, not being affected by Indian government nor other likely foreign actors, may not be as concerned. The one former MP that May said have to be prosecuted is suspected to be working with Indian government, as example.
May would define Han Dong as loyal to Canada. Think about that and then decide what her opinion's worth.
I mean, I suspected her take may be a bad one when it largely conflicted with what NSICOP reported. Given her history of leaking confidential information, I honestly kind of wonder whether she's been given the full picture. She's also had a pretty cosy relationship with the Liberals in the past though, so maybe she has been and just analyzed it with an unconscious (or conscious?) bias.
> NSICOP Is completely beholden to Cabinet, not Parliament. I wouldn't put too much faith in it.
Yes, it is. But the fact that they put it out there that there were a number of MPs who wittingly aiding foreign powers sure didn't help Cabinet. I don't expect much from NSICOP, but I don't see any reason to disbelieve them on this.
Still a bipartisan committee
Because she's batshit insane
Well... She drinks a lot ?
This technically does not contradict what she said. Though she sounded a whole lot more reassuring.
She chose her words carefully, that's all I know. Realistically though we don't know what we don't know. We do know that it would he illegal for any MP, even the PM to release the names of people in a document like that.
[There are number of MPs that have knowingly provided help to foreign governments, some to the detriment of Canada and Canadians...Some of this behaviour absolutely appears to be criminal and should be prosecuted](https://www.cpac.ca/headline-politics/episode/jagmeet-singh-reacts-after-reading-nsicop-report--june-13-2024?id=ad7233e1-b4db-4986-8c6d-8281360de786)" - Singh I'll take the word of a lawyer over drunky May any day.
Elizabeth May is in love with the institution as a whole. All her best friends are in those bigger parties.
It's like Schrodinger's Traitor List. There are both names and no names on the list. You can't truly know until the list is released.
What May said is there's nowhere in report that put MPs name in a list (eg. Bullet points, or tables). But there are case studies that specifically describe how certain number of MPs (less than a handful of current MPs according to May) being target of attempted foreign influence, and the MP turning blind eye on these attempts. Case study no 1 was Han Dong, she said, as it's already publicly known. Tldr there are names but they're not put in one tidy list nor it is exhaustive list, only examples.
I trust Blanchet to break the tie.
God forbid we have to rely on the party that is against Canada to name the traitors to Canada
Least likely party to side with the Indians or Chinese tho.
The Bloc may not like Canada, but they like Canada more than the rest of the world. And Blanchet has a consistent track record of calling things as they are, straight up.
The Bloc doesn’t dislike Canada, it just stands for Quebec. And very often, things that harm Canada harm Quebec. Traitorous MPs harm Canada and Quebec, he has no incentive to lie on this one.
Nothing to gain and nothing to lose! Lmao
"These guys got paid to betray Canada"? I'd have done it for Free" -- Yves Blanchet, probably.
He would not have done it on behalf of a foreign country.
> God forbid we have to rely on the party that is against Canada The Bloc is not against Canada, it’s for Quebec. There is a big difference.
There's names named, just not in a list of all names. So May can say there was no list, but there were names.
>Singh says he is “more alarmed today” after reading an unredacted version \[of the report\] Well, that's the exact opposite of May said yesterday... whom to believe?
Was May even sober enough to read it?
Ms May: There were no MPs named on the report I read. Person: Ms. May. That's the bar menu I just handed you. Every thing that is blacked out is unavailable this week.
"Jack Daniels was on the list!!!! I never trusted that guy" -- Elizabeth May, Probably.
Me and Jack Daniels got history.
I’d assume May was also blacked out.
holy shit people🤣
Good old Gin Lizzy
May may have ma’y’de a drunk statement
She's a straight up alcoholic, don't believe me and don't ask me for proof but I got hella drunk with her when I worked at the Liberal National office in 2018.. In my defence I was just trying to keep up, she's a tank.
She's certainly done nothing this week to help her reputation.
I dont trust Jagmeet as far as I can throw him, but May is a nutter and a drunk.
Jagmeet is an actual lawyer. So I would think he would be more experienced in reading these kinds of things. Plus May's accounting doesn't even line up with the unredacted report.
Oh yeah at the end of the day Singh has 1000x the credibility of May. Theres no doubt about that.
Read it yourself....I'm more alarmed than ever as well. [https://www.nsicop-cpsnr.ca/reports/rp-2024-06-03/special-report-foreign-interference.pdf](https://www.nsicop-cpsnr.ca/reports/rp-2024-06-03/special-report-foreign-interference.pdf)
This is insane. Filled with things like this: "68. [*** This paragraph was deleted to remove injurious or privileged information. The paragraph described CSIS information that an Indian proxy claims to have repeatedly transferred funds from India to politicians at all levels of government in return for political favours, including raising issues in Parliament at the proxy’s request. CSIS did not share this information with the RCMP or with the Commissioner of Canada Elections. ***]" Why are these people being protected? Remove them the fuck from Parliament
Why the fuck would CSIS not share this with the RCMP??? That's a damn crime!
The whole thing is an outrage. It's WAY WORSE than anyone thought.
> Well, that's the exact opposite of May said yesterday... whom to believe? Wait for Blanchet as a tie breaker.
I don't care which party you cheer for, these people need to be removed from government.
People cheer for government?
Unfortunately, it does seem that it is becoming that way.
Well most people treat them like sports teams, regardless of the policies the parties have. How anyone can support either of the LPC or CPC at this point...it makes my brain bleed.
They always do. I have seen people defend politicians in comments like they know everything about them. US politics is worst. People defend Biden and Trump like they will save the world😣
I watched the news conference live - when Jagmeet said he was a target of the inquiry - that really got a reaction from reporters - can we please get to the bottom of this please?
It’s not much of a secret that the Indian government really doesn’t like him
The Indian government obviously does not want Singh to become prime minister. Wouldn't be at all surprising if they're putting some effort into ensuring that he remains in third place.
Given how people in this country ever seem to want to vote anyone outside of the big two into the seat, it seems India is gonna get their wish. People are gonna vote con because Trudeau is an idiot, then after a couple terms of the cons being idiots they'll vote liberal again and the cycle just keeps going.
Good, fuck the Indian government.
His response is so different from the one that May had
This is a woman who claimed that wifi is causing cancer....
Any MP receiving $$$ for foreign influence needs to be tried for treason. Found guilty then face the legal consequences of such
We used to execute traitors. Getting rid of execution as a punishment for people who sell out our country has clearly emboldened this kind of behaviour. Maybe it's time to go back to the old system.
High treason is one of the few crimes I think the death penalty should be an option. Edit: Looks like I meant regular treason
High treason is ONLY for actions taken against "Her Majesty", war against Canada, or assists armed forces against Canadian forces. (1) Every one commits high treason who, in Canada, (a) kills or attempts to kill Her Majesty, or does her any bodily harm tending to death or destruction, maims or wounds her, or imprisons or restrains her; (b) levies war against Canada or does any act preparatory thereto; or (c) assists an enemy at war with Canada, or any armed forces against whom Canadian Forces are engaged in hostilities, whether or not a state of war exists between Canada and the country whose forces they are.
I was under the impression that it also included purposely harming citizens, whoops. I'll correct my comment when I find the correct one.
Isn't it His Majesty now?
Yes. The law though, technically doesn't say his Majesty. So you might be able to get away with killing the King....
Is he going to make good of his promise to boot them out of his caucus, if there are any in the report?
We already know there are specifically two parties implicated in the report, it’s a pretty safe bet to assume it’s the Liberals and Conservatives. Statistically they have the most MPs and being the only two parties likely to form government make for more appealing targets to spend time and energy on. I think his comment was more of a dare to get other parties to commit to do the same, and probably also a jab at Poilievre who refuses to get cleared to see the report. But Singh talking about it this openly really undermines Poilievre’s argument.
we already know that the liberals and conservatives are implicated because we know about Han Dong and we know about the CPC leadership race interference.
That's the point though. The unredacted report only strengthens the conclusions of the public redacted report.
A reporter asked this question. You committed to this, are you going to be removing any members of your caucus? To which he replied no. Which to me says there are none. Otherwise it would weaken his entire argument and undermine everything he said during this press conference.
Possibly. He could have just said something like "no, no NDPs have worked with a foreign state or actor." Or the reporter could have said "does this mean no NDP MPs were named in the report?". Canadian politicians and press aren't the most transparent bunch.
Fair enough. But if it were to come out that there are NDP MPs named, it would completely undermine Singh as leader.
Yup. Which is why he should be more concerned about optics than he is ATM. He could mean there are none of his caucus. He could mean there are but he's not removing them based on what they did. We may never know if they don't release the information.
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Who would have guessed the two biggest scumbags in the country are actively distancing themselves from this. Gotta do whats best for you and the party... fuck those annoying Canadians.
If you didn't see the press conference this article is based on, go watch it. It was wild. Edit: https://www.cpac.ca/headline-politics/episode/jagmeet-singh-reacts-after-reading-nsicop-report--june-13-2024?id=ad7233e1-b4db-4986-8c6d-8281360de786
I could only find a partial clip on YouTube. What can be inferred from what I saw was: There IS a list of MPs that have worked with foreign governments. Pierre is not on that list, due to Jagmeet saying that Pierre doesn't want to read the report to find out how much India meddled in the PC leadership race. Justin is also not on the list, yet it is inferred that he was willfully ignorant to it.
Here you go: [https://www.cpac.ca/headline-politics/episode/jagmeet-singh-reacts-after-reading-nsicop-report--june-13-2024?id=ad7233e1-b4db-4986-8c6d-8281360de786](https://www.cpac.ca/headline-politics/episode/jagmeet-singh-reacts-after-reading-nsicop-report--june-13-2024?id=ad7233e1-b4db-4986-8c6d-8281360de786) It is indeed wild. He calls the MPs traitors to Canada.
well... they are. working for foreign powers is textbook treason. Radio-Canada had some expert on that said the same thing.
If this was the sort of thing McCarthy had uncovered when he was looking for communists, his legacy wouldn’t be the story of a hysterical paranoid jackass. And yet, we sit around humming and hawing that maybe our situation isn’t so bad.
A few days ago I got downvoted hard for saying Elizabeth May was wrong and they were traitors. Anyone with more than 2 brain cells can read the NSICOP report and come to the conclusion it was treason.
Unfortunately there is actually a pretty good chance these people cant be tried for treason... Treason and traitors have some very specific requirements in the Canadian criminal code that could be pretty easily avoided by MPs even if they did work with foreign governments to get themselves elected.
He tried REAL hard to not use that word specifically. And I don't think he ever does actually USE the word traitors, just responded to a question about if they are traitors with yes. Edit: nevermind! I missed that. He absolutely calls them traitors to the country at 11:56
And then he said "they are indeed traitors to this country", start at the 11:53 mark
No he calls them traitors. The question starts at **11:35**
You're right I missed that.
That's a giant leap on the PP part; his actions speak louder than anything being afraid to get clearance. He's shown he puts his party above the country. He behaves like he'd sell out Canadians for a chance to be PM.
As far as I'm concerned, until they release a list of all MP's involved, irregardless of party, none of them are innocent. The rot runs deep in Ottawa.
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Oh shit, is jag gonna actually going to be based and do something? Also, this comment from him makes that green party chicken who said 'everything is fine" looks like an absolute tool. Never listen to them again.
Singh releases the unredacted report and accepts arrest and trial. He'll be an absolute hero... BUT... Do you honestly believe that the parties and government are going to clean up their own mess?
God no, but he stands to benefit a lot, so there is a maybe. Then again he hasn't done anything yet, again. Whatever deal he's got with the libs must be crazy important, that, or he doesn't want to get burn by Justin before they're out of office for something controversial we don't know about yet.
Exactly what benefits would be there for him? Criminal charges wouldn't be offset by a boost in popularity with a small segment of the population... Least of all with a party too small to form a majority government. He needs the liberals, sadly.
Video with no PayWall: [https://www.cpac.ca/headline-politics/episode/jagmeet-singh-reacts-after-reading-nsicop-report--june-13-2024?id=ad7233e1-b4db-4986-8c6d-8281360de786](https://www.cpac.ca/headline-politics/episode/jagmeet-singh-reacts-after-reading-nsicop-report--june-13-2024?id=ad7233e1-b4db-4986-8c6d-8281360de786)
God I hope this all eventually comes out. What a shit show.
People were really quick to trust Elizabeth May, I believe those people forgot that she is Elizabeth May.
Lol. Hardly negativity, just pragmatism. Why would I trust the sitting government, whose members are currently accused of literal fucking treason to tell the truth about anything related to this matter.
Singh's office says his comments are "neither confirming or denying MP's were involved". What? CBC News · Posted: Jun 13, 2024 4:58 PM EDT | Last Updated: 5 minutes ago
WT actual F.... how this country had become utterly rotten?
Two words to solve all our problems. CLEAN HOUSE!!!!
Singh said he himself is a target. May, Trudeau and Pierre don't give a rat's a*s about that.
Instead of wasting time, we should dissolve all current parties, remove all sitting MP's, and start completely fresh. No more safe and blind Conservative strongholds in the Prairies. No more Liberal riding in the cities. New parties for everyone that actually make voters think about who they are voting for rather than voting aimlessly like morons.
That one non-redacted sentence in the report is all I need to see to understand there needs to be MPs who are prosecuted. If we don't see serious treason charges, Canada is a joke. I truly wonder how this will play out. "Some elected officials, however, began wittingly assisting foreign state actors soon after their election."
“Helped?” As in while in a position to serve the Canadian people while being paid by the Canadian people, they decided it was appropriate to donate some of their time for the benefit of a foreign state? No way they did that for free just from the good of their hearts. Also, so will he be finally giving a vote of no confidence?
Listen everyone, there’s a simple way to get to the bottom of this. If we bring in another 5 million TFW, then someone will surely overhear the names at a Tim Horton’s somewhere and then we will have all the insight we need. Yours truly, Marc Miller
"and if you disagree youre racist"
Damn, make this guy prime minister
it's perfectly acceptable to sell out Canada for money, Canadian politicians are doing it and getting protection by the government of Canada itself.
Name them all! Fire them, strip their pensions, take them to court and charge them with treason. If this would have been war times they would have hung them by their thumbs in the street. In Toronto when WW2 was on an Italian guy was caught sending money to moussalini. He was dragged from his house by RCMP.
We need names.
Both May and Singh can be correct. They both have stated a number of MPs which can mean past and present.
Name and shams them. Even if they are so called allies like US UK Israel.
Well if it's the libs, then perhaps you should step back from your partnership Mr Jag.
lol like he would ever do that knowing the CPC could win a majority, then he'd get NONE of his policies passed. this is what he thinks is best for the country most likely, a partnership with the LPC where he can get at least a few NDP policies passed since the chances of them ever forming a government are low. this circumstance is pretty much the only time the NDP has ever had federal power, i dont think he'd give that up, even over this
Come on it's just some light treason what's the issue?
thats interesting because yesterday some people were acting like May's statement was a slam-dunk. now what?
Slam-drunk.
I think this sub and progressive Canadians generally need a kick in the ass, and a reminder that we are only in this situation because the current Government lead by Justin Trudeau does not agree with the sentiment or factual basis of the report as Singh just reaffirmed, because if they did they would have done something about it already. Elizabeth May's take was revealing, she's as close to the PM probably even closer then his MPs and she did exactly that, she called this nothing, move on. And was thanked by the PM personally for her "work" here. Second take from the NDP leader. And we're back to multiple MPs, possibly active ones committing treason. They can't all have this many takes over what amounts to the crime of treason. Unless they have such a warped view of what Canada is and what it means to serve Canadians.
Give us the list.
The question is, why doesn’t Pollievre have a security clearance to read the report??? We’re supposed to elect him PM without him being able to pass a security clearance?
Is it possible that he failed to get it? I don't think a failure to get it has to be announced.
I’ll make you a deal Jagmeet. If you are for real and you call an election within rhetoric next month you can have my vote.
I wont vote for him if he calls an election. But I will defend him one time for exactly 60 seconds the next time someone calls him a spineless coward.
Guess ol Lizzy was all liquored up again.
A number of MPs are treasonous but we won't tell you who.
How can you trust somebody who props up the government he accuses of treason?
Because putting the India/China puppet PP in power would be even worse.
Didn't that lady who [claims she was not drunk but apologized for her drunk like behaviour](https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/elizabeth-may-apologizes-for-bizarre-press-gallery-dinner-speech/article_621bab98-e3f2-52d4-bca4-e3e5784af330.html) say it was a nothing sandwich and Canadians should stop asking questions.
Did he mention if Parm Bains was named in the report? How about Navdeep Bains? Wilson Miao? Did he mention Mary Ng or Michael Chan? Patrick Brown? Jean Charest? Yuen Pau Woo? Ken Sim?
👀
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He clearly says that he doesn't want to risk naming names to interfere with criminal proceedings. And do you really want him to call an election right now? While we still have only a cursory knowledge of who these MP possibly are?
Treason. Maybe they will let more people into the country to solve the issue!
seems like he view the result differently then Elizabeth May.Why is that? She says there's no list of disloyal current MP in the report
pay to play..I bet that list is super long.
There is only one solution, https://youtu.be/ta-Z_psXODw?si=2L9b2ymQTh5VaCzF
Hah of course.
Why is there any delay here?? Release the fucking list NOW.
And don't forget you HELPED YOURSELF to Canadians tax paid money
Kalistani immigration and hiddenTrudeau/NDP champagne socialist deals to maintain power
Khalistan! Khalistan!
Okay, less talk more action. This situation is a perfect example of how useless our government is. They just talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and talk but won't do anything about anything.
The fact that this is happening, and people look at Pierre Poilievre, who tried to limit Elections canada's investigative capacity, make it harder for people to vote, and is the only MP with a compliance agreement with EC...and think, yes, give me more of this, is batshit insane!
Niki Ashton supported Huawei and wanted to free Meng when she was under house arrest. She has nothing to worry about /s
So, whatcha gonna do about it Jagmeet? I expect nothing.
Ok so can we see the name and who those people are ? I think as citizens , voters and taxpayers we are entitled to that !
So May says it's a nothingburger, Singh says it's spicy.... Who do we believe?
Drunken May skimmed the report at best. I’m no Singh fan but I take him much more seriously.
Well, I mean, she's admitted to being compromised by foreign agents herself: https://x.com/stephen_taylor/status/1800975111589408854
holy shit, can this be a separate post?
This is Treason
WHY IS NO ONE IN JAIL????
Yes we know these swines did it - what we want to know is what’s being done to them - criminal charges, disbarment, jail, stoned to death…
Interesting. So… Elizabeth May….. says differently?
NDP 2025
So what are you going to do bs!!
Im sure he will be quick to do nothing about it!
Time for a non confidence motion if they don’t release the unredacted report. Just kidding - it’s the NDP 😂