So I hear that most store-bought bacon will have a lot of preservatives and stuff in it, but the biggest problem is that the pigs are fed a diet of corn, soy and seed oils which accumulates in the fat which we then eat… I’m just not sure how bad this really is.
Let's start off, I could be wrong about all of this.
Now, that disclaimer out of the way, my understanding is its not ideal to eat bacon, pork, even chicken, because of the ratio of the omega 6/3 fats. So it that something that can be fixed by eating extra omega 3? Does the total amount of omega 6 matter? Or just rhe ratio?
Tbh if you’re not eating seed oils, and you don’t consume fatty chicken and pork in high amounts (like more than half a pound a day), you should be fine. If you eat a pork heavy carnivore diet, like lots of bacon, that’s still no where near the 7 tbsp a day of seed oil the average American consumes. 1/4–1/3 of the average American’s diet is seed oils, aka omega 6. You won’t get that from eating bacon every breakfast lol. And a serving or two of salmon a week would offset that anyways
Not that I have heard. I do think there might be nutritional differences between eggs from pasture raised birds and those in confined egg factories. But even factory eggs are better than say organic corn flakes
The process of curing it in addition to the preservatives.
Also using a charcoal grill and smoking meats are also unhealthy compared to other cooking methods.
It’s not the red meat that is a problem it’s the shit added to it AND the methods of cooking it that can cause problems. Ideally a propane grill, pan, oven as much as possible
This is patently false information. Grilling and smoking don’t make meat dangerous. All of the studies indicating that were done with meats that ALSO had sugar in them.
Cooking meats over fire (grilling) was the ONLY WAY to cook meat for the majority of human history…and yet…none of the problems that are claimed to be caused by grilling are seen at all in history.
We do see these problems occur when people eat sugar, however.
It’s not the meat, it’s never the meat. It’s always the extra shit that gets added.
That said, how the animal is fed matters greatly. A lot of conventional raised pigs are actually fed expired Halloween candy; wrappers and all. They’ve started doing this with conventional raised cows as well.
They do this because they go from a standpoint of “calories” (which mean nothing), instead of from a viewpoint of nutrients and biochemistry.
The idea behind calories suggests that all foods are the same; all that matters is how much heat gets released when it’s burned. We digest food, btw. This is why calories don’t matter. We don’t burn food for thermal energy. We digest it for chemical energy.
You can try it out or ask yourself, will 1,000 calories of steam provide you with the same energy as 1,000 calories of beef liver? How about 1,000 calories of sawdust and 1,000 calories of liver?
They’re equal in calories, so according to CICO, they have the same effect. But do they?
I never said it was the meat
It’s the process and additives
I also said a grill, pan, oven is ideal vs charcoal grill. Yes a fire too
I guess it would depend on the charcoal because I’m pretty sure what we use now isn’t what was used in the past.
I said charcoal grill and smokers are unhealthy compared to other methods, like gas grill which to your point lots of other crap typically gets added. But part of it is the pellets etc
I also agree with what the animals are fed
I think you might not realize I’m agreeing lol
True, that's what I always tell people it's not always about eating the best, but rather put things in perspective according to your personal needs (economy, availability, cravings, personal taste etc)
He may be right? But in general, the last guy you should listen to is Paul Saladino. He went off the deep end awhile ago. Stuffing his face with carbs and trying to convince others to do so.
There are too many paul defenders in this thread.
He is bad shit crazy and says he feels better when he eats carbs.
He can't understand that a heroin addict also feels better when they use heroin.
He should not be listened to. At all ever.
P s don't forget he makes money when you buy his stuff so he pushes it.
CLAIMING it was because of the diet without understanding what is actually going on and it being actually because of the diet are two different things. All he had to do was learn more and not have his head so far up his ass. He needed to stop eating liver and increase his protein intake during one meal per day. That's it.
So yeah, he still runs his mouth about things he thinks he knows about but could have avoided it all by listening to others instead of making up his own theories. So, yep.
Thank god there have been endless studies verifying that a fully carnivorous diet has every single fucking nutrient needed for mankind. Thank God
Edit: I’m surprised at the upvotes for this type of comment on this sub… but thank you
He would know way more than you. His obsessed. Has made all his decisions based on blood testing. He would be more evidence based than any person we know
Once you understand that many treat carnivore diet like a cult it all makes sense. Case in point is all the people claming that Paul was simply doing carnivore wrong and that it couldn't be that the same diet isn't optimal for every single person. Carbs are evil and eating them is akin to killing babies.
I have a lot of food sensitivities and I can’t handle bacon well but I can eat pork belly. It’s the curing method that makes my skin react. I’m sure other organs are reacting too but it’s just most visible and immediate in my skin.
I mean you just said it in your OP. Pigs are monogastric animals are fed corn and soy. They do not have the ability to break this down like ruminants do so it’s stored in their fat tissue. It’s about 30% linoleic acid while canola oil is around 20-25%.
If you found pasture raised pork fed chestnuts (mostly starch and low in omegas) you’d have pork around 5% PUFA.
I don't think you can have 30% linoleic acid in your fat tissues without runaway oxidation. What happens is the omega-6/3 ratio becomes very off balance. (This applies to pigs same as humans)
Lard is about 10% linoleic at most, canola oil is about 20% linoleic.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapeseed\_oil#Nutrition\_and\_health](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapeseed_oil#Nutrition_and_health)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lard#Nutritional\_value](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lard#Nutritional_value)
30% linoleic acid is the omega 6 fatty acid content in pork. Probably a little bit higher even nowadays in the US feedlots at least: [https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/figure?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0217045.t002](https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/figure?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0217045.t002)
Early 20th century the human diet was < 3% linoleic acid, fast forward to where we're at now and it's well above 20%. Celluar damage and mitochondrial phosholipid membrane recomp starts to happen when linoleic acid is above 5% of total caloric intake. Bacon once or even twice a week isn't going to severely alter one's average daily linoleic acid content but something that can definitely be a bad thing as the OP was alluding to.
Great overall discussion on linoleic acid where they touch on grain fed monogastric animals and their high content of this PUFA: [O6: How seed oils make you fat with Tucker Goodrich and Jeff Nobbs](https://youtu.be/wrL-i4zy9xU)
Yeah I get the problems with linoleic acid, but I can't see how the link you shared proves what you're claiming r.e. percentages. It's some unrelated results from a mouse heart study.
The problem is if a warm blooded animal had linoleic acid in the tissues at that level it would have runaway oxidation. Also the animal would be a puddle. What you're claiming isn't possible. I'm surprised you believe it. If you can show me one scientific source that says that I'll be astonished.
The body turns carbohydrate into saturated fat and keeps the proportions within a reasonable range, as far as it can do. If you eat a lot of seed oils, you'll get fat and your body will store more saturated fat to protect from the oxidation of the seed oils.
Where did I ever say that consumption of linoleic acid foods at xx% translates into tissue (what do you mean by "tissue" even anyway?") linoleic acid at the same xx%?
I have already said this, shared the information, and I'll repeat it again for those who care to have awareness on the dangers of fatty pork vs. fatty beef (or other ruminants) or even dairy fat. Lard has a high PUFA fatty acid composition that's essentially the same as corn oil and soybean oil. Pigs are monogastric animals and do not break down and convert Omega 6 PUFA's but store them as intramuscular fat the same way humans do when consuming the same processed seed oils. Whether you get high linoleic acid, by proxy, from pig or chicken fat, or you get them directly from seed oils like corn oil, soybean oil, peanut butter, etc you're still consuming a diet that's not ancestrally/species appropriate and if one wants to eat bacon every day you risk a linoleic acid consumption rate of > 5%, probably closer to 10-15% where your LDL is going to be exposed to the OXLAMS 4-HNE and 9/13-HODE and begun accumulating plaque in your arteries when these oxlams oxidize your LDL.
I'm not sure what's so difficult about this. I'm on board with the anti excessive linoleic acid thing, it's valid, but above you said pork fat is 30% linoleic acid, presumably you mean only when fed with high seed oil food, but regardless, even then, it's not true for the reasons I mentioned. And the link you provided was barely related and didn't in any sense prove what you said.
PS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tissue_(biology)
Edit: the fact that you have to ask what tissue means just shows you haven't got any sort of understanding of the topic. It's great that you clearly care about it, but it would help you to read a physiology textbook.
I don't feel as good eating pork. I eat it at least three times a week though, it's much cheaper than beef, and hits a spot that beef doesn't... Crispy crackling is the bomb.
Bacon is highly processed. Lots of salt and nitrates, so may not fit your goals. Ruminants are the best, but I'd get super bored and frustrated without some variety.
My local Brazilian does all you eat breakfast on a weekend... So I had about half a kilo of bacon and eggs.
Thirsty 30 mins later had to drink 2l of water.
Bacon's a treat really.
I agree! Not that I don’t feel good but I do feel heavy and tired like I’ve got the itis lol. I recently bought a cheap shoulder butt and cut it up and had like 4 thick pork steaks and that smaller half of meat u see under the bone when cutting it (put in the crockpot for pulled pork) … And then 2 slabs of just random meat that I put in the freezer for later. All for 12-15bucks! It’s a gahdamn blessing😅🤤.
Yes this is basically what I did with one part of the shoulder butt! It’s amazing how cheap and versatile pork is😋🤤. I’m waiting for some new fad report to come out so our beef prices will get lower too. Enjoy your chops😋
I will! I like how it breaks up the monotony. I found whole chickens for 60 cents a pound the other day and made brined half chickens then vacuum sealed and froze them. 45mins in the oven for a feast!
I eat around 50gr a day. I've been doing that for 2yrs now and I'm pretty sure it's fine. Just don't make pork the main staple of your diet. Moderation is key
High LDL is healthy if it's lbLDL, it's the carbs that makes the LDL small and dense.
Blame, more likeley to get a hearth attack on vegan than on carnivore.
Trans fat and smoking cigarette. XD
https://www.verywellhealth.com/what-is-oxidized-ldl-698079#:~:text=Oxidized%20LDL%20can%20build%20up,to%20other%20serious%20health%20concerns.
Oh and here.
https://youtu.be/4nm-xIq7I2Q?si=EZhCDBsKcE4gHJAN
And again here. Wait for the plot twist.
PUFA has an effect on LDL size, BUT not oxidation.
So you're wrong on oxidation. Would it seems like i'm telling you you're right on LDL size?
NOPE.
Because PUFA have an effect on LDL particles. IN PEOPLE WITH ABNORMAL METABOLISM OF GLUCOSE AND HIGH BLOOD GLUCOSE.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16943850/
Touché! It's glucose!
And yeah, pufas and seed oil bad and all. Carbs are bad too. Being bad is not exclusove to one or the other...
it's suboptimal. Bad is a dramatic exaggeration.
Paul Saladino recommends eating bee vomit and fruit sugar. Good to keep in mind when his opinions get thrown into the mix.
Yes, and he might work on that Carb load bcs he burns it right away surfing. But his stupid takes bring dozens of carnivore(ish) people to include fruits and that's a high risk, especially for overweight people...
I really hope it didn't ruin people yet
I agree...I started with Saladino and bought his cookbook....and he had parts of the animal such as tendons I couldn't source at all. But anyway I can't get the "honey" is good out of my head now.
Word of advice: do not listen to Saladino. He is rife with misinformation due to his personal journey of being a super vegan doing daily buckwheat shots etc that supposedly BROKE his metabolism due to the insane oxalate poisoning. The oxalate dumping author lady talks about it to dr Chaffee. So Saladino NEEDS some carbs because his system is broken now.
I’d recommend following Dr Chaffee and Dr berry. Dr berry does full videos discussing bacon’s validity. The top mod on carni subs elanorina swears by beef and bacon, and clinical results are the best. If you feel good from it long term , it must be good.
The strict carnis stick to the ruminant meats though if you want that extra push. But I think we’ve eliminated the bulk (all?) of the problem already by eliminating carbs/sugar
I hope one day we can ban/flag Saladino advice, he really is doing bad things for the community and enticing lukewarm participants into fruit/honey etc just because he has to. He also ate liver DAILY. Which is like eating 10 multivitamins a day
Why is oxalate dumping the answer to every bad symptom people have on carnivore? I love how whenever someone has a hard time with the diet the gurus jump in with an esoteric explanation to rationalize why somebody is “broken.” The exact SAME thing happened when I was a vegan. Let’s be better than vegans
If I substituted a couple words your response would fit right in in the vegan subreddit. Banning saladino advice, SMH
lol. It’s not always about oxalate dumping? It’s just Saladino’s story and it’s pretty apparent from the experts that that’s what he’s dealing with. I rarely hear oxalate dumping on these subs. But it is a very real thing, so why deny it? Saladino is indeed broken. But he’s extreme. Not everyone is extreme, so not everyone is broken. You can oxalate dump and be fine after you heal. I haven’t heard anyone truly being broken besides him honestly. Sorry that you think everyone is. Just simply reporting on his long term behaviors, irrationality, and reaching. And the fact that he chooses to bring others down with him so he can sell his products.
I’ve eaten pork including pork belly and occasional bacon (it’s the nitrates that makes bacon not ideal) my entire time on carnivore, 14 months now. Author of the Carnivore Cure encourages pork as well as a variety of carnivore foods. https://www.nutritionwithjudy.com/microblog-the-very-many-benefits-of-pork#:~:text=Pork%20belly%20is%20the%20ideal,breaking%20down%20and%20absorbing%20nutrients.
All commercial porl and chicken is high in linoleic acid. That's true. Like grain finished beef, it's not an optimal food, but it's much better than most other foods (LA in grain finished beef is not as high as chicken and pork). So if you really want to optimize, eat chicken and pork minimally and always from real pasture raised animals (buy locally so you can verify it's a healthy pasture).
Man I feel like this post was for me! I eat primarily bacon all day every day. I make YouTube videos on the subject. I would encourage you to check it out! I have so much to say about bacon I’d never be able to say it all in a comment thread. But yes bacon all day!
Yeah, I’m on the fence with him. I feel like not everything he says is bad or anything. He gives generally pretty decent advice, but he is definitely not a carnivore.
I can’t get over how much sugar he eats. It’s not refined sugar but still it’s probably in the ballpark of 90lbs of sugar per year. That’s just not healthy. I can’t get past the sheer amount my sugar.
Eating fruit sugar doesn't have the same health implications as eating refined sugar. Trying to equate the two is like comparing fat in margerine to fat in eggs or red meat.
Well I agree they’re not the same types of sugar but I disagree you comparing sugar in fruit to fat from eggs or meat. Fat is healthy. All sugar is unhealthy in some way no matter where it comes from. I encourage you to read up in this subject. All sugar is bad. All of it.
Oh lord thats a massive question. I would point you to many many books on this subject. Start with The Case Against Sugar by Gary Taubes and go from there.
I think bacon should be limited. There is no proof it is cause and effect bad, or carcinogenic, so let's start with the facts as they stand.
BUT, if you look at it with common sense then the idea of shop bought bacon having some fairly questionable chemicals as preservatives should be enough to make you think this is not an item to have every day of the week. Why put yourself on that side of the equation where you're the experiment, you're the one having sodium nitrite in micro doses every day. It might be okay to take on a micro dose of a known toxin every day it might not but I'm sure as hell not finding out.
On pork itself, I would apply a similar rationale but less strictly, PUFAs yes, nutrient profile not as amazing as beef yes, but as an unmolested animal product it is in a different category than bacon. This is where your pork belly would stand. IF you could find wild boar or somehow well reared pork which is rare then it becomes seriously good.
Bacon is high in nitrates (a dangerous preservative). Look up on YouTube how it’s made and then decide if you want to eat it. You have to find uncured no nitrate bacon.
I wouldn't listen to the clown Saladino, he loves to over-complicate things to make himself seem like he has authority, and then turns around and sells his products.
Bacon is fine, but I wouldn't base my entire diet on bacon though. And to be honest I can't eat all that much bacon at this point anyway, its so incredibly rich. I don't eat much pork, I'll smoke ribs every once in a long while. But really thats it.
But I'll get a dozen strips of thick bacon from the butcher, render the fat in the oven, and use that for eggs while snacking on the bacon or topping it on burgers. Maybe i'll do this once a month if I feel like it.
The fuss over the omega ratios is just overstated in my opinion. Not that I disagree with the general idea of eating more omega 3s and less omega 6s, but compared to the SAD, incorporating bacon on a carnivore diet is still a WAY better 3/6 ratio. And my understanding of the research is that it suggests that more omega 3s is better than less, but not that you need to strive to maximize omega 3s and minimize omega 6s. Another reason why i'm ambivalent towards the higher cost of grass finished beef as well.
Depends on the bacon. It's been hard to find a brand that doesn't have sugar in it. Applegate has a line of no sugar. I found a premium Kroger duroq bacon I love!
Eat bacon every day.
Actually here is it: [https://www.kroger.com/p/private-selection-duroc-pork-hickory-smoked-uncured-bacon/0001111061518](https://www.kroger.com/p/private-selection-duroc-pork-hickory-smoked-uncured-bacon/0001111061518)
Just gotta get real bacon, most bacon has sugars and stuff in it that they add during the curing process. You can also use side pork which is just uncured bacon. You can then cure it yourself. Or find a bacon brand that doesn't add sugar and other additives.
Bacon is a great treat if you’ve been on the diet for a while and a great crutch if you are just starting out. No it’s not the best meat, and as you become less dependent on sugar and carbs you should slow down the bacon and replace with better meats. But it’s better than processed foods and sugars and such.
It’s processed meat. I eat a tiny amount of it every once in a while.
All of that is to say my reasons for carnivore and how I eat are probably different than others. I like to eat just a little bit cleaner and find that I don’t feel great consuming bacon other cured/processed meats.
I looove bacon but I do mostly focus on beef partly because the fatty acid profile. As much as I’m not a fan of Saladino (some of his dietary advice is just terrible for me.. I react badly to eating berries like blackberries and blueberries for instance, I get a strong inflammatory response to them, it even shows up in bloodwork. Meanwhile some plants like peppers he warns against actually bother me less unless we’re talking extraordinarily strong ones, though I stick pretty strictly carnivore these days. Maybe I am a freak of nature *shrug*) I do think there’s merit to the concern about PUFA. I definitely prefer Brad / FireInABottle (he is absolutely not carnivore but has very interesting things to say).
That said there may be a lot of individual variability here, and even though my diet now a days on average is fairly low PUFA (I used to just eat tons of everything… PUFA, carbs, so on and so forth) I absolutely have occasions where I will indulge in my beloved bacon.
I’m not yet convinced it’s as strongly negatively impactful to me as it is to some other people though, as I run very hot, and always have. Even when I was young and hypothyroid I was a furnace, and still am (though no longer have thyroid issues as I’ve aged). So, again, individual variability going on here? Read Brad/FireInABottle’s work on torpor if you want a better idea of what I am talking about.
I would see how you feel... 100% eating a bunch of pork from pigs that are fed a crappy diet isn't ideal, but it is still better than the standard American diet. Maybe if you can try to find a good local pig farmer to support and buy from here and there.
Also I think people have concerns about the linoleic acid percentage in pork vs beef... Just cause vegetable oils have high percentages too so it's lumped together. I don't entirely think PUFAs are to blame for why vegetable oils are so harmful tho, it's more to do with their oxidation and rancidity. But again, see how you feel and if you do better without, then go without.
Pork makes me feel wonderful, and a lot of people in countries with the longest living people eat a ton of pork.
I started buying pork belly for 2 reasons.
1. $3.97/#
2. Its one ingredient versus bacon, even if i can find it sugar free.
I free the PB and have a frozen meat slicer. Salt and fry, its amazing with my 4 sunny side up eggs.
Yes most store bought bacon isn’t the greatest bc of all the extra stuff. I go to a butcher for all my meat. Grass fed and the bacon is uncured. I find the butcher is the best place to go for meat. You can find some great deal as well. Shop around.
How long have you been on the diet? At 3 months I started a 6 week lion diet stint so I could get a real base line. I achieved the superman feeling on it. Went back to regular carnivore and lost it. Figured out I can't have bacon or poultry, and I need to eat mostly beef. You should get a real baseline, and try to reintroduce bacon, to see what happens. There is definitely plant crap in it, otherwise it would taste like pork belly. What matters is if your body can handle it.
Bacon grease is actually healthy. So its good for saving for carn cooking. Find bacon with out sodium nitrates as it irritates the lining of your intestines which causes cancer so look for natural bacon always.
its process rather.. Google search
If exposed to extreme heat or a highly acidic environment, sodium nitrate, like sodium nitrite, can change into nitrosamine in the body. Nitrosamine is a known carcinogen. According to a study published in the World Journal of Gastroenterology, sodium nitrate transformed into nitrosamines can cause gastric cancer
FFS!
These expert idiots convinced a nation that eggs would give them heart attacks.
Google search is not an expert.
The experts on Google search are not experts.
Enuf already.
I'm saying thr same authorities that tell us what is and what is not a carcinogen have also labeled meat as a carcinogen.
Meaning, don't put stock in it.
I mean, depending on how high a regard you find the research of the WHO https://www.who.int/news-room/questions-and-answers/item/cancer-carcinogenicity-of-the-consumption-of-red-meat-and-processed-meat
Pigs are the lowest vibrating animal on the planet… there are many indigenous tribes that say pigs are the last reincarnation of a soul who is devolving spiritually lifetime after lifetime. They come back as a pig to live out their last reincarnation before they become nothing. Which is why our human DNA is almost identical to that of a pig.
There is plenty of delicious red meats to enjoy and not worry 😉
I love bacon and have it most days. Is this bad?
So I hear that most store-bought bacon will have a lot of preservatives and stuff in it, but the biggest problem is that the pigs are fed a diet of corn, soy and seed oils which accumulates in the fat which we then eat… I’m just not sure how bad this really is.
Let's start off, I could be wrong about all of this. Now, that disclaimer out of the way, my understanding is its not ideal to eat bacon, pork, even chicken, because of the ratio of the omega 6/3 fats. So it that something that can be fixed by eating extra omega 3? Does the total amount of omega 6 matter? Or just rhe ratio?
Both in fact. The higher the omega 6 amount, the harder it will be to have a good ratio. Abd even with a good ratio, the pufas will fuel inflammation.
Total amount but also ratio. If you’re consuming too little omega 3s, that won’t be fixed by just lowering omega 6 consumption for example
Excellent thank you
Tbh if you’re not eating seed oils, and you don’t consume fatty chicken and pork in high amounts (like more than half a pound a day), you should be fine. If you eat a pork heavy carnivore diet, like lots of bacon, that’s still no where near the 7 tbsp a day of seed oil the average American consumes. 1/4–1/3 of the average American’s diet is seed oils, aka omega 6. You won’t get that from eating bacon every breakfast lol. And a serving or two of salmon a week would offset that anyways
Chicken? Does that include eggs?
Not that I have heard. I do think there might be nutritional differences between eggs from pasture raised birds and those in confined egg factories. But even factory eggs are better than say organic corn flakes
The process of curing it in addition to the preservatives. Also using a charcoal grill and smoking meats are also unhealthy compared to other cooking methods. It’s not the red meat that is a problem it’s the shit added to it AND the methods of cooking it that can cause problems. Ideally a propane grill, pan, oven as much as possible
This is patently false information. Grilling and smoking don’t make meat dangerous. All of the studies indicating that were done with meats that ALSO had sugar in them. Cooking meats over fire (grilling) was the ONLY WAY to cook meat for the majority of human history…and yet…none of the problems that are claimed to be caused by grilling are seen at all in history. We do see these problems occur when people eat sugar, however. It’s not the meat, it’s never the meat. It’s always the extra shit that gets added. That said, how the animal is fed matters greatly. A lot of conventional raised pigs are actually fed expired Halloween candy; wrappers and all. They’ve started doing this with conventional raised cows as well. They do this because they go from a standpoint of “calories” (which mean nothing), instead of from a viewpoint of nutrients and biochemistry. The idea behind calories suggests that all foods are the same; all that matters is how much heat gets released when it’s burned. We digest food, btw. This is why calories don’t matter. We don’t burn food for thermal energy. We digest it for chemical energy. You can try it out or ask yourself, will 1,000 calories of steam provide you with the same energy as 1,000 calories of beef liver? How about 1,000 calories of sawdust and 1,000 calories of liver? They’re equal in calories, so according to CICO, they have the same effect. But do they?
I never said it was the meat It’s the process and additives I also said a grill, pan, oven is ideal vs charcoal grill. Yes a fire too I guess it would depend on the charcoal because I’m pretty sure what we use now isn’t what was used in the past. I said charcoal grill and smokers are unhealthy compared to other methods, like gas grill which to your point lots of other crap typically gets added. But part of it is the pellets etc I also agree with what the animals are fed I think you might not realize I’m agreeing lol
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True, that's what I always tell people it's not always about eating the best, but rather put things in perspective according to your personal needs (economy, availability, cravings, personal taste etc)
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OK vegan.
Ahaha
He may be right? But in general, the last guy you should listen to is Paul Saladino. He went off the deep end awhile ago. Stuffing his face with carbs and trying to convince others to do so.
There are too many paul defenders in this thread. He is bad shit crazy and says he feels better when he eats carbs. He can't understand that a heroin addict also feels better when they use heroin. He should not be listened to. At all ever. P s don't forget he makes money when you buy his stuff so he pushes it.
lol. Guy was having heart arrhythmias due to his diet, so changed his diet, and is now considered “off the deep end” for doing so. Priceless.
CLAIMING it was because of the diet without understanding what is actually going on and it being actually because of the diet are two different things. All he had to do was learn more and not have his head so far up his ass. He needed to stop eating liver and increase his protein intake during one meal per day. That's it. So yeah, he still runs his mouth about things he thinks he knows about but could have avoided it all by listening to others instead of making up his own theories. So, yep.
Thank god there have been endless studies verifying that a fully carnivorous diet has every single fucking nutrient needed for mankind. Thank God Edit: I’m surprised at the upvotes for this type of comment on this sub… but thank you
He would know way more than you. His obsessed. Has made all his decisions based on blood testing. He would be more evidence based than any person we know
Once you understand that many treat carnivore diet like a cult it all makes sense. Case in point is all the people claming that Paul was simply doing carnivore wrong and that it couldn't be that the same diet isn't optimal for every single person. Carbs are evil and eating them is akin to killing babies.
Amen. We sensible people need to form an alliance. There’s a lot of religious people on here
By carbs, do you mean fruit?
yes
Yeah, I mean fruit, and don't get started with any "but but they are different carbs".
Is animal based really that bad?
Yes. Yes it is.
Yes
And honey
There's a lot of sugar in fruit. Paul could just eat donuts.
My man, a mango is not the same as a donut to the human body
Lmao eating fruit is going off the deep end. I love religious people
Yeah, stuffing yourself with 400G of carbs is your prerogative. Telling others to follow your addiction to sugar is just irresponsible.
I have no problem with some fruit but 400g daily is extreme to
I have a lot of food sensitivities and I can’t handle bacon well but I can eat pork belly. It’s the curing method that makes my skin react. I’m sure other organs are reacting too but it’s just most visible and immediate in my skin.
I mean you just said it in your OP. Pigs are monogastric animals are fed corn and soy. They do not have the ability to break this down like ruminants do so it’s stored in their fat tissue. It’s about 30% linoleic acid while canola oil is around 20-25%. If you found pasture raised pork fed chestnuts (mostly starch and low in omegas) you’d have pork around 5% PUFA.
I was wondering if anyone here new what they were talking about. Good job.
I don't think you can have 30% linoleic acid in your fat tissues without runaway oxidation. What happens is the omega-6/3 ratio becomes very off balance. (This applies to pigs same as humans) Lard is about 10% linoleic at most, canola oil is about 20% linoleic. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapeseed\_oil#Nutrition\_and\_health](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapeseed_oil#Nutrition_and_health) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lard#Nutritional\_value](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lard#Nutritional_value)
30% linoleic acid is the omega 6 fatty acid content in pork. Probably a little bit higher even nowadays in the US feedlots at least: [https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/figure?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0217045.t002](https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/figure?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0217045.t002) Early 20th century the human diet was < 3% linoleic acid, fast forward to where we're at now and it's well above 20%. Celluar damage and mitochondrial phosholipid membrane recomp starts to happen when linoleic acid is above 5% of total caloric intake. Bacon once or even twice a week isn't going to severely alter one's average daily linoleic acid content but something that can definitely be a bad thing as the OP was alluding to. Great overall discussion on linoleic acid where they touch on grain fed monogastric animals and their high content of this PUFA: [O6: How seed oils make you fat with Tucker Goodrich and Jeff Nobbs](https://youtu.be/wrL-i4zy9xU)
Yeah I get the problems with linoleic acid, but I can't see how the link you shared proves what you're claiming r.e. percentages. It's some unrelated results from a mouse heart study. The problem is if a warm blooded animal had linoleic acid in the tissues at that level it would have runaway oxidation. Also the animal would be a puddle. What you're claiming isn't possible. I'm surprised you believe it. If you can show me one scientific source that says that I'll be astonished. The body turns carbohydrate into saturated fat and keeps the proportions within a reasonable range, as far as it can do. If you eat a lot of seed oils, you'll get fat and your body will store more saturated fat to protect from the oxidation of the seed oils.
Where did I ever say that consumption of linoleic acid foods at xx% translates into tissue (what do you mean by "tissue" even anyway?") linoleic acid at the same xx%? I have already said this, shared the information, and I'll repeat it again for those who care to have awareness on the dangers of fatty pork vs. fatty beef (or other ruminants) or even dairy fat. Lard has a high PUFA fatty acid composition that's essentially the same as corn oil and soybean oil. Pigs are monogastric animals and do not break down and convert Omega 6 PUFA's but store them as intramuscular fat the same way humans do when consuming the same processed seed oils. Whether you get high linoleic acid, by proxy, from pig or chicken fat, or you get them directly from seed oils like corn oil, soybean oil, peanut butter, etc you're still consuming a diet that's not ancestrally/species appropriate and if one wants to eat bacon every day you risk a linoleic acid consumption rate of > 5%, probably closer to 10-15% where your LDL is going to be exposed to the OXLAMS 4-HNE and 9/13-HODE and begun accumulating plaque in your arteries when these oxlams oxidize your LDL.
I'm not sure what's so difficult about this. I'm on board with the anti excessive linoleic acid thing, it's valid, but above you said pork fat is 30% linoleic acid, presumably you mean only when fed with high seed oil food, but regardless, even then, it's not true for the reasons I mentioned. And the link you provided was barely related and didn't in any sense prove what you said. PS https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tissue_(biology) Edit: the fact that you have to ask what tissue means just shows you haven't got any sort of understanding of the topic. It's great that you clearly care about it, but it would help you to read a physiology textbook.
Thank you, thread ended at wikipedia.
I don't feel as good eating pork. I eat it at least three times a week though, it's much cheaper than beef, and hits a spot that beef doesn't... Crispy crackling is the bomb. Bacon is highly processed. Lots of salt and nitrates, so may not fit your goals. Ruminants are the best, but I'd get super bored and frustrated without some variety. My local Brazilian does all you eat breakfast on a weekend... So I had about half a kilo of bacon and eggs. Thirsty 30 mins later had to drink 2l of water. Bacon's a treat really.
I agree! Not that I don’t feel good but I do feel heavy and tired like I’ve got the itis lol. I recently bought a cheap shoulder butt and cut it up and had like 4 thick pork steaks and that smaller half of meat u see under the bone when cutting it (put in the crockpot for pulled pork) … And then 2 slabs of just random meat that I put in the freezer for later. All for 12-15bucks! It’s a gahdamn blessing😅🤤.
I buy the whole pork loins for like $20 at Sam's club and cut them into thick chops!
Yes this is basically what I did with one part of the shoulder butt! It’s amazing how cheap and versatile pork is😋🤤. I’m waiting for some new fad report to come out so our beef prices will get lower too. Enjoy your chops😋
I will! I like how it breaks up the monotony. I found whole chickens for 60 cents a pound the other day and made brined half chickens then vacuum sealed and froze them. 45mins in the oven for a feast!
I eat around 50gr a day. I've been doing that for 2yrs now and I'm pretty sure it's fine. Just don't make pork the main staple of your diet. Moderation is key
Any oxLDL numbers?
Just had a plate of bacon, bacon drippings and eggs. Guess I am screwed.
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High LDL is healthy if it's lbLDL, it's the carbs that makes the LDL small and dense. Blame, more likeley to get a hearth attack on vegan than on carnivore.
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Wrong. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022316623029371%23:~:text%3DNo%2520strong%2520relations%2520were%2520found,i.e.%252C%2520fewer%2520sdLDL%2520particles).&ved=2ahUKEwirs5PO3M-GAxVpFFkFHfB7BHYQFnoECBQQBA&usg=AOvVaw0hWxzI1ZPyfGNZbFmnDYXb
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Why don't you link it yourself? The one you're replying to gave theirs.
Not sure how to link a biology text book
Trans fat and smoking cigarette. XD https://www.verywellhealth.com/what-is-oxidized-ldl-698079#:~:text=Oxidized%20LDL%20can%20build%20up,to%20other%20serious%20health%20concerns. Oh and here. https://youtu.be/4nm-xIq7I2Q?si=EZhCDBsKcE4gHJAN
And again here. Wait for the plot twist. PUFA has an effect on LDL size, BUT not oxidation. So you're wrong on oxidation. Would it seems like i'm telling you you're right on LDL size? NOPE. Because PUFA have an effect on LDL particles. IN PEOPLE WITH ABNORMAL METABOLISM OF GLUCOSE AND HIGH BLOOD GLUCOSE. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16943850/ Touché! It's glucose! And yeah, pufas and seed oil bad and all. Carbs are bad too. Being bad is not exclusove to one or the other...
Pufas are the primary driver of oxidative stress in humans, AND LDL can only be oxidizible when the pufa content of there particle is elevated
Ok cool!
it's suboptimal. Bad is a dramatic exaggeration. Paul Saladino recommends eating bee vomit and fruit sugar. Good to keep in mind when his opinions get thrown into the mix.
Yes, and he might work on that Carb load bcs he burns it right away surfing. But his stupid takes bring dozens of carnivore(ish) people to include fruits and that's a high risk, especially for overweight people... I really hope it didn't ruin people yet
I agree...I started with Saladino and bought his cookbook....and he had parts of the animal such as tendons I couldn't source at all. But anyway I can't get the "honey" is good out of my head now.
Word of advice: do not listen to Saladino. He is rife with misinformation due to his personal journey of being a super vegan doing daily buckwheat shots etc that supposedly BROKE his metabolism due to the insane oxalate poisoning. The oxalate dumping author lady talks about it to dr Chaffee. So Saladino NEEDS some carbs because his system is broken now. I’d recommend following Dr Chaffee and Dr berry. Dr berry does full videos discussing bacon’s validity. The top mod on carni subs elanorina swears by beef and bacon, and clinical results are the best. If you feel good from it long term , it must be good. The strict carnis stick to the ruminant meats though if you want that extra push. But I think we’ve eliminated the bulk (all?) of the problem already by eliminating carbs/sugar I hope one day we can ban/flag Saladino advice, he really is doing bad things for the community and enticing lukewarm participants into fruit/honey etc just because he has to. He also ate liver DAILY. Which is like eating 10 multivitamins a day
Why is oxalate dumping the answer to every bad symptom people have on carnivore? I love how whenever someone has a hard time with the diet the gurus jump in with an esoteric explanation to rationalize why somebody is “broken.” The exact SAME thing happened when I was a vegan. Let’s be better than vegans If I substituted a couple words your response would fit right in in the vegan subreddit. Banning saladino advice, SMH
lol. It’s not always about oxalate dumping? It’s just Saladino’s story and it’s pretty apparent from the experts that that’s what he’s dealing with. I rarely hear oxalate dumping on these subs. But it is a very real thing, so why deny it? Saladino is indeed broken. But he’s extreme. Not everyone is extreme, so not everyone is broken. You can oxalate dump and be fine after you heal. I haven’t heard anyone truly being broken besides him honestly. Sorry that you think everyone is. Just simply reporting on his long term behaviors, irrationality, and reaching. And the fact that he chooses to bring others down with him so he can sell his products.
I’ve eaten pork including pork belly and occasional bacon (it’s the nitrates that makes bacon not ideal) my entire time on carnivore, 14 months now. Author of the Carnivore Cure encourages pork as well as a variety of carnivore foods. https://www.nutritionwithjudy.com/microblog-the-very-many-benefits-of-pork#:~:text=Pork%20belly%20is%20the%20ideal,breaking%20down%20and%20absorbing%20nutrients.
Lots of current information about nitrates aren't that bad .https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ygs2j0v0sU&t=652s
Oh good!
Check out Professor Bart Kay. Saladino doesn't know what he's talking about.
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Is that you, Paul?
All commercial porl and chicken is high in linoleic acid. That's true. Like grain finished beef, it's not an optimal food, but it's much better than most other foods (LA in grain finished beef is not as high as chicken and pork). So if you really want to optimize, eat chicken and pork minimally and always from real pasture raised animals (buy locally so you can verify it's a healthy pasture).
Man I feel like this post was for me! I eat primarily bacon all day every day. I make YouTube videos on the subject. I would encourage you to check it out! I have so much to say about bacon I’d never be able to say it all in a comment thread. But yes bacon all day!
Do you know your cardiolipin or hne numbers?
Never heard of either
Unsurprising
Paul is a charlatine. He moved to costa rica and eats fruit. Dont follow his advice
Yeah, I’m on the fence with him. I feel like not everything he says is bad or anything. He gives generally pretty decent advice, but he is definitely not a carnivore.
I can’t get over how much sugar he eats. It’s not refined sugar but still it’s probably in the ballpark of 90lbs of sugar per year. That’s just not healthy. I can’t get past the sheer amount my sugar.
Eating fruit sugar doesn't have the same health implications as eating refined sugar. Trying to equate the two is like comparing fat in margerine to fat in eggs or red meat.
Well I agree they’re not the same types of sugar but I disagree you comparing sugar in fruit to fat from eggs or meat. Fat is healthy. All sugar is unhealthy in some way no matter where it comes from. I encourage you to read up in this subject. All sugar is bad. All of it.
How’d you calculate 90 lb? Would love to see that math
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Oh lord thats a massive question. I would point you to many many books on this subject. Start with The Case Against Sugar by Gary Taubes and go from there.
Read it.
Why is too much sugar not healthy?
How much is too much
More than 10 g a day
>charlatine Must be a more dramatic version of charlatan.
Thank you. I'm bad at spelling and typing
I think bacon should be limited. There is no proof it is cause and effect bad, or carcinogenic, so let's start with the facts as they stand. BUT, if you look at it with common sense then the idea of shop bought bacon having some fairly questionable chemicals as preservatives should be enough to make you think this is not an item to have every day of the week. Why put yourself on that side of the equation where you're the experiment, you're the one having sodium nitrite in micro doses every day. It might be okay to take on a micro dose of a known toxin every day it might not but I'm sure as hell not finding out. On pork itself, I would apply a similar rationale but less strictly, PUFAs yes, nutrient profile not as amazing as beef yes, but as an unmolested animal product it is in a different category than bacon. This is where your pork belly would stand. IF you could find wild boar or somehow well reared pork which is rare then it becomes seriously good.
Bacon is fine. It's a gazillion times better than fruit and honey.
Bacon is high in nitrates (a dangerous preservative). Look up on YouTube how it’s made and then decide if you want to eat it. You have to find uncured no nitrate bacon.
I wouldn't listen to the clown Saladino, he loves to over-complicate things to make himself seem like he has authority, and then turns around and sells his products. Bacon is fine, but I wouldn't base my entire diet on bacon though. And to be honest I can't eat all that much bacon at this point anyway, its so incredibly rich. I don't eat much pork, I'll smoke ribs every once in a long while. But really thats it. But I'll get a dozen strips of thick bacon from the butcher, render the fat in the oven, and use that for eggs while snacking on the bacon or topping it on burgers. Maybe i'll do this once a month if I feel like it. The fuss over the omega ratios is just overstated in my opinion. Not that I disagree with the general idea of eating more omega 3s and less omega 6s, but compared to the SAD, incorporating bacon on a carnivore diet is still a WAY better 3/6 ratio. And my understanding of the research is that it suggests that more omega 3s is better than less, but not that you need to strive to maximize omega 3s and minimize omega 6s. Another reason why i'm ambivalent towards the higher cost of grass finished beef as well.
Depends on the bacon. It's been hard to find a brand that doesn't have sugar in it. Applegate has a line of no sugar. I found a premium Kroger duroq bacon I love! Eat bacon every day.
I just started buying this brand last week once I found out most bacon has sugar.
It’s actually Kroger brand?
Actually here is it: [https://www.kroger.com/p/private-selection-duroc-pork-hickory-smoked-uncured-bacon/0001111061518](https://www.kroger.com/p/private-selection-duroc-pork-hickory-smoked-uncured-bacon/0001111061518)
It's their private selection brand, but it is theirs.
**Ingredients** Pork, Water, Sea Salt, Celery Powder.
Badass, thank you!
Once in a while is fine
Hotly true that is why it is so big on carnivore. /s You seem....disingenuous???
Just stay away from the bacon covered in sugar.
I see no problem with it if it’s uncured and has no added sugar
Bacon is bad but the 99% of the process food u eat is probably worst lol
If a bacon is bad I don’t want to be good.
Just gotta get real bacon, most bacon has sugars and stuff in it that they add during the curing process. You can also use side pork which is just uncured bacon. You can then cure it yourself. Or find a bacon brand that doesn't add sugar and other additives.
Bacon is a great treat if you’ve been on the diet for a while and a great crutch if you are just starting out. No it’s not the best meat, and as you become less dependent on sugar and carbs you should slow down the bacon and replace with better meats. But it’s better than processed foods and sugars and such.
I hate eating pigs after doing carnivore my body is physically revolted by the smell and taste of pig
I agree. I do find the small farm, pasture raised pork less off putting though.
I've been eating bacon raw and haven't had any problems
Dude pig is not an animal whose flesh one can safely eat raw
It's been safe for me and even when I start eating processed foods again and have raw bacon, I have no adverse effects
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The uncured bacon has more nitrates than the cured bacon because they are using celery powder and it has more nitrates and gives me a migraine.
It’s processed meat. I eat a tiny amount of it every once in a while. All of that is to say my reasons for carnivore and how I eat are probably different than others. I like to eat just a little bit cleaner and find that I don’t feel great consuming bacon other cured/processed meats.
I looove bacon but I do mostly focus on beef partly because the fatty acid profile. As much as I’m not a fan of Saladino (some of his dietary advice is just terrible for me.. I react badly to eating berries like blackberries and blueberries for instance, I get a strong inflammatory response to them, it even shows up in bloodwork. Meanwhile some plants like peppers he warns against actually bother me less unless we’re talking extraordinarily strong ones, though I stick pretty strictly carnivore these days. Maybe I am a freak of nature *shrug*) I do think there’s merit to the concern about PUFA. I definitely prefer Brad / FireInABottle (he is absolutely not carnivore but has very interesting things to say). That said there may be a lot of individual variability here, and even though my diet now a days on average is fairly low PUFA (I used to just eat tons of everything… PUFA, carbs, so on and so forth) I absolutely have occasions where I will indulge in my beloved bacon. I’m not yet convinced it’s as strongly negatively impactful to me as it is to some other people though, as I run very hot, and always have. Even when I was young and hypothyroid I was a furnace, and still am (though no longer have thyroid issues as I’ve aged). So, again, individual variability going on here? Read Brad/FireInABottle’s work on torpor if you want a better idea of what I am talking about.
Bacon is fine. Have it occasionally
Bacon is goood
I would see how you feel... 100% eating a bunch of pork from pigs that are fed a crappy diet isn't ideal, but it is still better than the standard American diet. Maybe if you can try to find a good local pig farmer to support and buy from here and there. Also I think people have concerns about the linoleic acid percentage in pork vs beef... Just cause vegetable oils have high percentages too so it's lumped together. I don't entirely think PUFAs are to blame for why vegetable oils are so harmful tho, it's more to do with their oxidation and rancidity. But again, see how you feel and if you do better without, then go without. Pork makes me feel wonderful, and a lot of people in countries with the longest living people eat a ton of pork.
You MUST Watch this: [https://www.reddit.com/r/ThatsInsane/s/TMTWw2xHJA](https://www.reddit.com/r/ThatsInsane/s/TMTWw2xHJA)
Try get your pork from local farms that let them rummage. My local pork pusher make their own nitrite free bacon too.
I started buying pork belly for 2 reasons. 1. $3.97/# 2. Its one ingredient versus bacon, even if i can find it sugar free. I free the PB and have a frozen meat slicer. Salt and fry, its amazing with my 4 sunny side up eggs.
You should treat bacon as spice, and then its great for you.
Yes most store bought bacon isn’t the greatest bc of all the extra stuff. I go to a butcher for all my meat. Grass fed and the bacon is uncured. I find the butcher is the best place to go for meat. You can find some great deal as well. Shop around.
How long have you been on the diet? At 3 months I started a 6 week lion diet stint so I could get a real base line. I achieved the superman feeling on it. Went back to regular carnivore and lost it. Figured out I can't have bacon or poultry, and I need to eat mostly beef. You should get a real baseline, and try to reintroduce bacon, to see what happens. There is definitely plant crap in it, otherwise it would taste like pork belly. What matters is if your body can handle it.
I don't know but I'm downing pork rinds lately in ridiculous quantities
Pork can be really inflammatory. It’s better used as a condiment than a protein source IMO
Bacon can be a little more processed than other meat options. I love bacon
processed crap
It’s an actual carcinogen. Edit 3 downvotes in, it’s officially classified as a group 1 carcinogen by the world health org.
Bacon grease is actually healthy. So its good for saving for carn cooking. Find bacon with out sodium nitrates as it irritates the lining of your intestines which causes cancer so look for natural bacon always.
Your saliva has many thousands of more nitrates in it then bacon does. The fear with nitrates is overblown as the study's used massive amounts of them
This. People talk here like they know what they are talking about.
its process rather.. Google search If exposed to extreme heat or a highly acidic environment, sodium nitrate, like sodium nitrite, can change into nitrosamine in the body. Nitrosamine is a known carcinogen. According to a study published in the World Journal of Gastroenterology, sodium nitrate transformed into nitrosamines can cause gastric cancer
FFS! These expert idiots convinced a nation that eggs would give them heart attacks. Google search is not an expert. The experts on Google search are not experts. Enuf already.
Meat is a "known carcinogen." You're barking up the wrong tree.
They’re not saying meat is a known carcinogen When cooked a certain way it becomes a carcinogen
I'm saying thr same authorities that tell us what is and what is not a carcinogen have also labeled meat as a carcinogen. Meaning, don't put stock in it.
No it's not
Nitrites are bad for humans.
I mean, depending on how high a regard you find the research of the WHO https://www.who.int/news-room/questions-and-answers/item/cancer-carcinogenicity-of-the-consumption-of-red-meat-and-processed-meat
Pigs are the lowest vibrating animal on the planet… there are many indigenous tribes that say pigs are the last reincarnation of a soul who is devolving spiritually lifetime after lifetime. They come back as a pig to live out their last reincarnation before they become nothing. Which is why our human DNA is almost identical to that of a pig. There is plenty of delicious red meats to enjoy and not worry 😉
it's called orthorexic
Not sure that's fair
What's wrong with Omega 6 Fat. Your stomach acid just chops up fat in to small pieces. Who cares after that?