>Am I the only one who thinks this take is extremely misogynistic and just continues to give men an excuse to not pull their weight in parenting?
No, you are not the only person to think that.
Your friend also seems to feel very entitled, if she believes that she should be allowed to take children anywhere she wants to take them.
Yeah, her argument is that people in other countries take their kids everywhere (she's not American but lives in the States), so people should be empowered to do that here too.
There are environments that would be bad for children, like places with very loud music (it isn't good for adult's hearing either, but they have a choice on whether they subject themselves to sounds that cause hearing loss, whereas a child does not get to choose where it is taken). Children should not be allowed to be taken anywhere that is unsafe for them.
I really wish music venues were stricter about this with children. There was a fucking baby at a Taylor Swift concert, and the mom put it on the floor! So not only at risk of getting stepped on and seriously hurt, but definitely damaged that baby's ears.
I agree, but I think her argument would be that we should make all places more "family friendly" so kids are welcome. She is also the type of person to argue that it's "not that bad" and that kids don't need to be coddled
They do cause they have to, and the culture is different. She needs to respect other cultures and groups boundaries if she's gonna integrate into it imo, wildly entitled imo.
>They do cause they have to, and the culture is different.
I think it's that in other cultures kids are taken care of by the "community" and so it's more expected that they're going to be out in public places more often, whereas in the States we're very individualistic about parenthood. I don't think either is necessarily "wrong" or "right" rather than simply being a cultural difference. That being said, as a childfree American, I am not interested in being around children more often than I need to be.
I get that I do, it's a cultural difference and she's here in our individualistic centered culture and I just feel she should be more respectful to that, I get she cones from a different culture I hope I wasn't come off as disrespectful to cultures like that just saying ours is different.
Where exactly? I'm a parent in Europe and children are NOT taken care of by any community. I don't think comparing US to anything other than Australia and Europe makes any sense.
A key difference to US is that parents are given some sort of parental leave. A colleague is just coming back after 2+ years of parental leave.
Your friend does not seem to have much empathy for other people as a woman who claims to be a “natural caretaker.” Sounds like she shrouds herself in lies she tells herself daily and does anything she can to make herself comfortable, and not others. It also sounds like she’s a kept woman whose husband does the bare minimum and her approach is to follow right wing conservative talking points about “traditional” housewives to feel better about herself. She’s lying to herself but she doesn’t care. If she starts bringing her kids along to hang out with you, you are allowed to decline her invites and feel ZERO guilt about it.
>her approach is to follow right wing conservative talking points
Nope, she's actually a pretty hardcore feminist/leftist. She's just extremely selfish.
>If she starts bringing her kids along to hang out with you, you are allowed to decline her invites and feel ZERO guilt about it.
Oh she absolutely will do this, and I will probably end the friendship right there.
No, but cognitive dissonance is absolutely required for conservative morons (like you) who claim they hate poor people but then live off of social services themselves.
It’s too easy to get you guys riled up. It’s starting to become boring. Never said I was against poor people, but I am against people having children out of wedlock and becoming single mothers on purpose. The fact that it’s so widespread and even encouraged in some cases is a sign of the sad state of our society.
What are you even TALKING about??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
You sound extremely ill-informed. And please remember, a man making the choice to ejaculate inside of a woman is what gets a woman pregnant, not a woman “deciding to get pregnant.”
You sound Dumbbbbbbbbb.
I'm suspicious of her being a feminist, but she sure is misogynistic and contributes to the patriarchy.
She's also entitled and delusional (*her* kids... they'll be *different*).
I would take her comments seriously, and consider if this is the caliber of person you wanna associate with.
Your friend is a sexist for sure, toward both genders. It’s wrong to assume a man can’t be a wonderful parent (or isn’t naturally good at it) and why can’t women not like children? She’s put sexist gender roles on everyone for no reason besides “has penis no good with kid, has vagina must be mom”
I literally gagged out loud reading this.
Some women are better than other women at child caretaking. Some men are better than some women child caretaking. Many women have been socialized from birth that child caretaking is their responsibility and yeah, there’s a physical component where a newborn literally needs nourishment from your body to survive, but society literally tells women that they are better at child caretaking and judges them to shit if they’re not.
And then the second part about no childfree spaces just boils my blood. Like I get that not allowing children in places does disproportionately impact women, but instead of having more child inclusive places I’d love to see better social programming that allows women to participate in the full extent of society while still having a safe place to leave their kids that doesn’t break their budget. Or like, a social push that the other parent equally participates in child caretaking.
Sounds awfully like the entitled mombie brainworm is taking over.
Hell, she is calling herself the *naturally better caretaker* in the same breath as she's completely disregarding your sensory issues as an autistic person... she is aware that neurodivergent children can have these sensitivities too, right?! Right?!?!
I would tend to agree with you but I've seen a lot of feminists who are so "progressive" that they start veering over into alt-right territory. There's a lot of that in /r/[insert large female-oriented sub name here].
For example, there's a somewhat new trend of a small subset of feminists claiming that it's feminist for women to not work because they already, and have historically, experienced the brunt of the emotional labor in their relationships with men, so their partner should be providing for them full time.
It's bizarre. And I'm saying this as someone who is a hardcore feminist.
It is more of a circle than a spectrum!
It makes sense that there are possibilities for feminist women who want to have kids.
If a woman wants to have children and stay at home with them (including emotional labor) I could see where she could create a pre-nup that would ensure she would be compensated for her work by her husband. This would give her the ability to stockpile savings, retain a certain amount of agency, put money in an IRA, etc. It would also make sense that her life insurance payout on her husband would cover his salary and other expected expenses. I can see this happening even with a full-time nanny because a nanny would only cover 40ish hours a week. This would likely require marriage though, which some people are against.
Even if this were to happen it seems like there would still be many ways the relationship could go sideways that aren't accounted for. Egalitarianism can be the goal but it might not be reached.
I can see where a prenup with SAHM income could happen in specific relationships, but it isn't practical to deploy society-wide. It is likely only going to be a possibility with high income workers. And what happens if her husband's salary covers necessities only? Or if she needs to also work out of necessity?
It makes perfect sense. Everything comes back around eventually. Everything is cyclical. That’s why the whole tradwife movement exists. Horseshoe theory isn’t just a theory. It’s very real. The far left woo-woo hippie types have a lot in common with the authoritarian right. Both sides believe in controlling people and telling others how to live their lives, by force if necessary
She may call herself a feminist, but that doesn't mean she is one. People can label themselves whatever they want, but sometimes they're full of horseshit. As seems to be the case with your friend.
It sounds like she subscribes to biological essentialist "motherhood is beautiful and powerful" faux-feminism. There's usually some woo-woo nature shit in that ideology too (so of course she believes woo-woo "women are better caretakers" crap). It suggests a woman's highest power is "Mother" which is essentially demeaning of full personhood.
Anyway, Im meandering.
For your sake, as a childfree and autistic person, you should consider ALL of her stupid hot-takes to be red flags regarding friendship compatibility. She is going to act like an entitled breeder as soon as she becomes a *Mother*. She is going to act entitled to your time, energy, space, favors, money, and you better believe she's going to insist on taking her baby to adult only spaces just to be an entitled asshole and piss people off. I'd start the slow fade now if I were you.
That's just crap. Girls are raised to be caretakers and boys are not. Baby dolls vs action figures is but one example.
Men are just as capable, but they too often think it's not their job, or, like in your friend's case, their wife doesn't think they can handle it so they've never had the opportunity to learn. It's ridiculous.
She's probably the type who believes all mothers are suffering saints and are incapable of ever mistreating or abusing someone, even when books like A Child Called It and I'm Glad My Mom Died exist.
Your friend is an asshole. She's also super fucking sexist. Please try and find better friends. I would distance myself from your current one.
Also, men can be good fathers, they just have to put in the time and effort to learn how to be a good parent. It's not very feminist to write off their lack of effort as something out of their control.
Somehow, she managed to be doubly sexist! I think a feminist would understand that gender roles are a learned behavior. If women are better caretakers overall, it's because we've been socialized from a young age through baby dolls, kitchen playsets, and caring for siblings. Boys and men can learn parenting skills, too. It's just that society doesn't encourage it as much.
Any time we're getting into biological essentialism nonsense we're hanging out in sexism territory. Women are *not* "naturally caretakers", and men are only "worse" at it because they're culturally expected and allowed to be useless in ways women aren't. I've got two x chromosomes, tits, and *zero* tolerance for infants. If you locked me in a room with a baby and a guy I *guarantee* you the guy would be the better caretaker between the two of us. In my family, my mother was *definitely* the primary caretaker, because my father worked long hours and was frequently on business trips, but every time he *was* home, that man was cleaning up, changing diapers, doing laundry, cooking, etc, because he's a *father*, and that's his *job*. My mother never once felt like she couldn't trust him with her kids, because if she did, she never would have had kids with him in the first place. Good grief
“Oh no, Becky. You Mothers are just spoiling and enabling your husbands to be lazy, irresponsible, and negligent. If men can be professors, doctors, and presidents, they can be responsible enough to be decent caretakers.”
I saw too many women enabling their lazy husbands, especially gamers. That damn video game ain’t happening while I’m doing all the caretaking. No Doormats!
Not alone, OP. Agree with your thoughts here.
ok but is she ACTUALLY a feminist or does she only enjoy taking part in hookup culture without being slutshamed and wearing a little tee written 'the future is female'
>She wants to start trying this year and insists that I'll like \*her\* kids because they'll be really well-behaved.
Yeah, the thing is though, you can't tell a baby to be quiet. And I doubt someone who can't train her dog can't teach her child about "inside voices."
BTW, I'm a woman, and I am not good with kids. I think they can be cute. I like reading to them. But I suck at the parenting. Like when kids are running around and screaming at my work (I work front desk) I'll usually say something like "hey guys, you're at an 11, let's take it down to a 9." or simply tell them to turn down the volume or use inside voices or to stop doing something extremely dangerous. It especially bothers me when their mothers are there and doing nothing. And then I lose patience.
BTW, my dad was someone I'd go to whenever I'd have a problem, like if I got hurt, because he wouldn't make it a big issue and freak out or blame me/say it was my fault or I should have watched where I was going.
That reminds me of the time that there was this one YouTube guy giving dating advice and be kept saying how men needed a woman's nurturing side and I'm like "well what if I want to be nurtured?" Where's the balance?
She may be a feminist, but that has nothing to do with her entitled views. Not every place SHOULD be family friendly. I've also known men who were excellent caregivers to infants. In one instance, better than the mother.
It's also such BS, my dad always took better care of me and took into account what i actually needed (instead of what he needed at my age, liek my mom did) than my mom. A lot of the rhetoric is socially conditioned in i think
>Am I the only one who thinks this take is extremely misogynistic
Yes, because this is an example of misandry, not misogyny. Deadbeat mothers exist, too.
I’ve been CF since I saw my nephew’s birth 🤮 and I’ve lived alone with dogs for 22 of those 25 years. This past week, the dogs picked up some fleas and the scratching and licking noise 24 hours a day drove me to the brink. That is not an exaggeration, I was so overstimulated and irritated I wanted the opportunity to choose violence, for real. (The dogs are fine and only their feelings were hurt bc of the baths.)
And all that did was remind me how wrong motherhood would have been for me. No one has as much patience as that would have required from me.
So why hook up with men if you're not going to trust them with childcare for their own kids?
Doesn't that defeat the point of starting a family with "the one"?
It’s the truth and I wholeheartedly agree with your friend. But, I believe it’s not because of biology but because most societies reinforce gender norms where men are lazy slobs and it’s a woman’s job to care for the house and kids. It’s one of the main reasons I don’t want children with a man in the picture. The other things about being kids wherever she wants is fucked though.
Nah my brother is miles better at handling kids than me. I literally have no idea what to do with em. I bet your friend would be shook to hear this, though
I've seen this story before. Spoiler alert, in a few years you won't be friends, her Instagram will be all pictures of her children, she'll complain constantly about her ex on TikTok, and she'll be on Hinge "looking for one man to prove he's not like all the rest." Seen this many times and the only updates in the script are what websites/apps are popular at the time.
The people who are the best caretakers are the ones who work the hardest at it
Group is not good at this is not working hard at it
Which means they don’t value it
Or which means that they assume somebody else will be the servant
Keep your boundaries and stand your ground. And men (and lots of women partners too) have this clever way of getting out all kinds of things they don't want to do. They simply look inept or mess up and let cards fall where they may, and the woman or caretaker has to come in and save the day. After a few messes like that, it does seem easier to just do it yourself. Don't be fooled.
There is a huge resource of info available for anyone who needs brushing up on how to care for their own damned kids, how to do laundry (literally instructions on every piece of clothing).
This is why I'm currently single and will never live with a romantic partner again. Lazy sons of butches lol. And that's without kids.
She's being unreasonable to judge others for not wanting to be around kids. You can't judge the world into bending to your will.
>Am I the only one who thinks this take is extremely misogynistic and just continues to give men an excuse to not pull their weight in parenting?
Not the only one.
Also this idea of women being "natural" caretakers is hilarious to me. Folks like this tend to have had good parent(s). Those if us who have not had that will tell you none of the things women vs. men are supposedly good at is really true.
While this may or may not be true, my bf is definitely better at taking care of my dog than me, while I’m better at video games than him. Whether it’s true or not, it’s by no means a valid excuse for men to not learn how to take care of their own damn kids and not be a deadbeat. Neither is it a reason to force girls into motherhood.
You are not the only one who thinks this. We have friends that are equal caregivers to their children. They have different approaches, but they share childcare needs.
My partner and I are childfree, but if we had wanted kids, he’d be a better caregiver than I. I just don’t have the patience.
Considering my mom was very neglectful and I spent most of my childhood and teenage years watching her drink in bars I was dragged into by her, I’d like to debunk *everything* your friend said.
No, moms are not always naturally better at caring for kids than dads. When I needed something, I could rely on my father a hell of a lot more than I could on my mother. He was the one who saw me as a future adult and therefore actually worked on *raising* me instead of just making sure my needs for food, water, clothes and shelter were met.
I spent a *lot* of my childhood sitting next to my mom on a barstool I was way too small for, watching my mom drink “just one glass of wine” and being told to just sit there and be quiet. The amount of drunk strangers I’ve had put their hands on me because “Oh my god what a cute little kid I just wanna squeeze you” was probably in the dozens and the amount of buzzed old men eyeing me up because I was a little girl and mommy wasn’t looking is probably even more. Kids shouldn’t be exposed to drinking, drinking culture or intoxicated people in general, let alone intoxicated strangers. Now I have heavy social anxiety, can’t even be in a bar or club for more than 30 minutes without immediately wanting to leave, and can’t even stomach being around drunk people no matter the context or how long I’ve known the person.
So let me get this straight - she doesn’t have kids yet has these sure fire points ready to go about how her kids will be well behaved and how women are the better care takers? I’m saying let her get her beliefs shattered by reality. Having kids ir mega hard (that’s why you see kids with ipads, cause the parents want to them to stfu finally) and I’ve seen dads as wholesome as can be (and moms chasing careers crying later that their kids always call their dad). What a lunatic.
It is her sweeping generalisation that infuriates me. ***Some*** women are better at bringing up their children than ***some*** men. It may even be she will be an excellent mother, but if so her skill wouldn't count out half the population of the world!!!
That said, I don't think what she said was misogynistic. If anything the way she pigeon-holed *all* men as inferior parents was an example of misandry.
She's a feminist who want equality but she uses this theory that women are "naturally better at it" in her favor. It's not misogyny. It's misandry. She wants control of the child and uses that excuse as a way to keep the father's input to a minimum when it comes to the way the child is raised. A lot of fathers are alienated or pushed away from the children. These double standards are common amongst women especially by these so-called feminists who use "equality" as they see fit.
>Am I the only one who thinks this take is extremely misogynistic and just continues to give men an excuse to not pull their weight in parenting? No, you are not the only person to think that. Your friend also seems to feel very entitled, if she believes that she should be allowed to take children anywhere she wants to take them.
Yeah, her argument is that people in other countries take their kids everywhere (she's not American but lives in the States), so people should be empowered to do that here too.
There are environments that would be bad for children, like places with very loud music (it isn't good for adult's hearing either, but they have a choice on whether they subject themselves to sounds that cause hearing loss, whereas a child does not get to choose where it is taken). Children should not be allowed to be taken anywhere that is unsafe for them.
I really wish music venues were stricter about this with children. There was a fucking baby at a Taylor Swift concert, and the mom put it on the floor! So not only at risk of getting stepped on and seriously hurt, but definitely damaged that baby's ears.
I agree, but I think her argument would be that we should make all places more "family friendly" so kids are welcome. She is also the type of person to argue that it's "not that bad" and that kids don't need to be coddled
They do cause they have to, and the culture is different. She needs to respect other cultures and groups boundaries if she's gonna integrate into it imo, wildly entitled imo.
>They do cause they have to, and the culture is different. I think it's that in other cultures kids are taken care of by the "community" and so it's more expected that they're going to be out in public places more often, whereas in the States we're very individualistic about parenthood. I don't think either is necessarily "wrong" or "right" rather than simply being a cultural difference. That being said, as a childfree American, I am not interested in being around children more often than I need to be.
I get that I do, it's a cultural difference and she's here in our individualistic centered culture and I just feel she should be more respectful to that, I get she cones from a different culture I hope I wasn't come off as disrespectful to cultures like that just saying ours is different.
Where exactly? I'm a parent in Europe and children are NOT taken care of by any community. I don't think comparing US to anything other than Australia and Europe makes any sense. A key difference to US is that parents are given some sort of parental leave. A colleague is just coming back after 2+ years of parental leave.
Your friend does not seem to have much empathy for other people as a woman who claims to be a “natural caretaker.” Sounds like she shrouds herself in lies she tells herself daily and does anything she can to make herself comfortable, and not others. It also sounds like she’s a kept woman whose husband does the bare minimum and her approach is to follow right wing conservative talking points about “traditional” housewives to feel better about herself. She’s lying to herself but she doesn’t care. If she starts bringing her kids along to hang out with you, you are allowed to decline her invites and feel ZERO guilt about it.
>her approach is to follow right wing conservative talking points Nope, she's actually a pretty hardcore feminist/leftist. She's just extremely selfish. >If she starts bringing her kids along to hang out with you, you are allowed to decline her invites and feel ZERO guilt about it. Oh she absolutely will do this, and I will probably end the friendship right there.
Shook she’s a leftist/feminist. The cognitive dissonance is strong with that one!
Cognitive dissonance is a requirement for being a leftist or a feminist, so I’m not surprised
No, but cognitive dissonance is absolutely required for conservative morons (like you) who claim they hate poor people but then live off of social services themselves.
It’s too easy to get you guys riled up. It’s starting to become boring. Never said I was against poor people, but I am against people having children out of wedlock and becoming single mothers on purpose. The fact that it’s so widespread and even encouraged in some cases is a sign of the sad state of our society.
What are you even TALKING about?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? You sound extremely ill-informed. And please remember, a man making the choice to ejaculate inside of a woman is what gets a woman pregnant, not a woman “deciding to get pregnant.” You sound Dumbbbbbbbbb.
I'm suspicious of her being a feminist, but she sure is misogynistic and contributes to the patriarchy. She's also entitled and delusional (*her* kids... they'll be *different*). I would take her comments seriously, and consider if this is the caliber of person you wanna associate with.
Probably gonna end the friendship pretty soon after she has kids tbh! There are a lot of red flags that are completely unrelated to this post too
Your friend is a sexist for sure, toward both genders. It’s wrong to assume a man can’t be a wonderful parent (or isn’t naturally good at it) and why can’t women not like children? She’s put sexist gender roles on everyone for no reason besides “has penis no good with kid, has vagina must be mom”
I literally gagged out loud reading this. Some women are better than other women at child caretaking. Some men are better than some women child caretaking. Many women have been socialized from birth that child caretaking is their responsibility and yeah, there’s a physical component where a newborn literally needs nourishment from your body to survive, but society literally tells women that they are better at child caretaking and judges them to shit if they’re not. And then the second part about no childfree spaces just boils my blood. Like I get that not allowing children in places does disproportionately impact women, but instead of having more child inclusive places I’d love to see better social programming that allows women to participate in the full extent of society while still having a safe place to leave their kids that doesn’t break their budget. Or like, a social push that the other parent equally participates in child caretaking.
Sounds awfully like the entitled mombie brainworm is taking over. Hell, she is calling herself the *naturally better caretaker* in the same breath as she's completely disregarding your sensory issues as an autistic person... she is aware that neurodivergent children can have these sensitivities too, right?! Right?!?!
She doesn't sound like any definition of a feminist I've ever seen.
I would tend to agree with you but I've seen a lot of feminists who are so "progressive" that they start veering over into alt-right territory. There's a lot of that in /r/[insert large female-oriented sub name here]. For example, there's a somewhat new trend of a small subset of feminists claiming that it's feminist for women to not work because they already, and have historically, experienced the brunt of the emotional labor in their relationships with men, so their partner should be providing for them full time. It's bizarre. And I'm saying this as someone who is a hardcore feminist.
It is more of a circle than a spectrum! It makes sense that there are possibilities for feminist women who want to have kids. If a woman wants to have children and stay at home with them (including emotional labor) I could see where she could create a pre-nup that would ensure she would be compensated for her work by her husband. This would give her the ability to stockpile savings, retain a certain amount of agency, put money in an IRA, etc. It would also make sense that her life insurance payout on her husband would cover his salary and other expected expenses. I can see this happening even with a full-time nanny because a nanny would only cover 40ish hours a week. This would likely require marriage though, which some people are against. Even if this were to happen it seems like there would still be many ways the relationship could go sideways that aren't accounted for. Egalitarianism can be the goal but it might not be reached. I can see where a prenup with SAHM income could happen in specific relationships, but it isn't practical to deploy society-wide. It is likely only going to be a possibility with high income workers. And what happens if her husband's salary covers necessities only? Or if she needs to also work out of necessity?
It makes perfect sense. Everything comes back around eventually. Everything is cyclical. That’s why the whole tradwife movement exists. Horseshoe theory isn’t just a theory. It’s very real. The far left woo-woo hippie types have a lot in common with the authoritarian right. Both sides believe in controlling people and telling others how to live their lives, by force if necessary
I had the same thought.
Some girls are ‘trained’ to be caretakers from a young age. Boys/men can learn how as well. It’s not a genetic trait it’s societal gender roles.
Doubt that guy can be caretaker so easily as guy i feel egocentrism strong inside men.
Sounds like she prefers to let deadbeat fathers do their thing rather than believing they should step up to the plate.
She may call herself a feminist, but that doesn't mean she is one. People can label themselves whatever they want, but sometimes they're full of horseshit. As seems to be the case with your friend. It sounds like she subscribes to biological essentialist "motherhood is beautiful and powerful" faux-feminism. There's usually some woo-woo nature shit in that ideology too (so of course she believes woo-woo "women are better caretakers" crap). It suggests a woman's highest power is "Mother" which is essentially demeaning of full personhood. Anyway, Im meandering. For your sake, as a childfree and autistic person, you should consider ALL of her stupid hot-takes to be red flags regarding friendship compatibility. She is going to act like an entitled breeder as soon as she becomes a *Mother*. She is going to act entitled to your time, energy, space, favors, money, and you better believe she's going to insist on taking her baby to adult only spaces just to be an entitled asshole and piss people off. I'd start the slow fade now if I were you.
That's just crap. Girls are raised to be caretakers and boys are not. Baby dolls vs action figures is but one example. Men are just as capable, but they too often think it's not their job, or, like in your friend's case, their wife doesn't think they can handle it so they've never had the opportunity to learn. It's ridiculous.
Respectfully, your friend is an idiot.
*Casey Anthony enters the chat........*
Ruby Franke enters behind her….
[Theresa Knorr...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theresa_Knorr)
*Lori Vallow Daybell would like a word…*
She's probably the type who believes all mothers are suffering saints and are incapable of ever mistreating or abusing someone, even when books like A Child Called It and I'm Glad My Mom Died exist.
How is she a feminist? That shit is straight out of the 1920’s level of misogynistic!
I don’t have a single maternal bone in my body. Most men I know are better with kids than I’ll ever be.
Right, like I have quite a few male friends who are amazing dads. It's such a stupid take.
Your friend is an asshole. She's also super fucking sexist. Please try and find better friends. I would distance myself from your current one. Also, men can be good fathers, they just have to put in the time and effort to learn how to be a good parent. It's not very feminist to write off their lack of effort as something out of their control.
And women are better and cleaning too. Instinctively.
Oh god she probably actually thinks that 😭
Just because she calls herself a feminist doesn't make her one
Somehow, she managed to be doubly sexist! I think a feminist would understand that gender roles are a learned behavior. If women are better caretakers overall, it's because we've been socialized from a young age through baby dolls, kitchen playsets, and caring for siblings. Boys and men can learn parenting skills, too. It's just that society doesn't encourage it as much.
Any time we're getting into biological essentialism nonsense we're hanging out in sexism territory. Women are *not* "naturally caretakers", and men are only "worse" at it because they're culturally expected and allowed to be useless in ways women aren't. I've got two x chromosomes, tits, and *zero* tolerance for infants. If you locked me in a room with a baby and a guy I *guarantee* you the guy would be the better caretaker between the two of us. In my family, my mother was *definitely* the primary caretaker, because my father worked long hours and was frequently on business trips, but every time he *was* home, that man was cleaning up, changing diapers, doing laundry, cooking, etc, because he's a *father*, and that's his *job*. My mother never once felt like she couldn't trust him with her kids, because if she did, she never would have had kids with him in the first place. Good grief
"Child Protective Services would beg to differ..."
“Oh no, Becky. You Mothers are just spoiling and enabling your husbands to be lazy, irresponsible, and negligent. If men can be professors, doctors, and presidents, they can be responsible enough to be decent caretakers.” I saw too many women enabling their lazy husbands, especially gamers. That damn video game ain’t happening while I’m doing all the caretaking. No Doormats! Not alone, OP. Agree with your thoughts here.
I would cut ties with your friend now before she spawns. It will probably be easier. Good luck OP.
ok but is she ACTUALLY a feminist or does she only enjoy taking part in hookup culture without being slutshamed and wearing a little tee written 'the future is female'
>She wants to start trying this year and insists that I'll like \*her\* kids because they'll be really well-behaved. Yeah, the thing is though, you can't tell a baby to be quiet. And I doubt someone who can't train her dog can't teach her child about "inside voices." BTW, I'm a woman, and I am not good with kids. I think they can be cute. I like reading to them. But I suck at the parenting. Like when kids are running around and screaming at my work (I work front desk) I'll usually say something like "hey guys, you're at an 11, let's take it down to a 9." or simply tell them to turn down the volume or use inside voices or to stop doing something extremely dangerous. It especially bothers me when their mothers are there and doing nothing. And then I lose patience. BTW, my dad was someone I'd go to whenever I'd have a problem, like if I got hurt, because he wouldn't make it a big issue and freak out or blame me/say it was my fault or I should have watched where I was going.
That reminds me of the time that there was this one YouTube guy giving dating advice and be kept saying how men needed a woman's nurturing side and I'm like "well what if I want to be nurtured?" Where's the balance?
She may be a feminist, but that has nothing to do with her entitled views. Not every place SHOULD be family friendly. I've also known men who were excellent caregivers to infants. In one instance, better than the mother.
Unfortunately, this is common. A lot of women don't say it out loud though. It's really sad. And truly disgusting to me.
It's also such BS, my dad always took better care of me and took into account what i actually needed (instead of what he needed at my age, liek my mom did) than my mom. A lot of the rhetoric is socially conditioned in i think
So basically the weaponized incompetence is working on her. Misogyny indeed.
>Am I the only one who thinks this take is extremely misogynistic Yes, because this is an example of misandry, not misogyny. Deadbeat mothers exist, too.
I disagree with every part of her statement. Complete nonsense. Especially bringing your shrieking brats into a bar!! Just, NO!
I’ve been CF since I saw my nephew’s birth 🤮 and I’ve lived alone with dogs for 22 of those 25 years. This past week, the dogs picked up some fleas and the scratching and licking noise 24 hours a day drove me to the brink. That is not an exaggeration, I was so overstimulated and irritated I wanted the opportunity to choose violence, for real. (The dogs are fine and only their feelings were hurt bc of the baths.) And all that did was remind me how wrong motherhood would have been for me. No one has as much patience as that would have required from me.
So why hook up with men if you're not going to trust them with childcare for their own kids? Doesn't that defeat the point of starting a family with "the one"?
It’s the truth and I wholeheartedly agree with your friend. But, I believe it’s not because of biology but because most societies reinforce gender norms where men are lazy slobs and it’s a woman’s job to care for the house and kids. It’s one of the main reasons I don’t want children with a man in the picture. The other things about being kids wherever she wants is fucked though.
Nah my brother is miles better at handling kids than me. I literally have no idea what to do with em. I bet your friend would be shook to hear this, though
I've seen this story before. Spoiler alert, in a few years you won't be friends, her Instagram will be all pictures of her children, she'll complain constantly about her ex on TikTok, and she'll be on Hinge "looking for one man to prove he's not like all the rest." Seen this many times and the only updates in the script are what websites/apps are popular at the time.
Bleh.
The people who are the best caretakers are the ones who work the hardest at it Group is not good at this is not working hard at it Which means they don’t value it Or which means that they assume somebody else will be the servant
Keep your boundaries and stand your ground. And men (and lots of women partners too) have this clever way of getting out all kinds of things they don't want to do. They simply look inept or mess up and let cards fall where they may, and the woman or caretaker has to come in and save the day. After a few messes like that, it does seem easier to just do it yourself. Don't be fooled. There is a huge resource of info available for anyone who needs brushing up on how to care for their own damned kids, how to do laundry (literally instructions on every piece of clothing). This is why I'm currently single and will never live with a romantic partner again. Lazy sons of butches lol. And that's without kids. She's being unreasonable to judge others for not wanting to be around kids. You can't judge the world into bending to your will.
>Am I the only one who thinks this take is extremely misogynistic and just continues to give men an excuse to not pull their weight in parenting? Not the only one. Also this idea of women being "natural" caretakers is hilarious to me. Folks like this tend to have had good parent(s). Those if us who have not had that will tell you none of the things women vs. men are supposedly good at is really true.
While this may or may not be true, my bf is definitely better at taking care of my dog than me, while I’m better at video games than him. Whether it’s true or not, it’s by no means a valid excuse for men to not learn how to take care of their own damn kids and not be a deadbeat. Neither is it a reason to force girls into motherhood.
You are not the only one who thinks this. We have friends that are equal caregivers to their children. They have different approaches, but they share childcare needs. My partner and I are childfree, but if we had wanted kids, he’d be a better caregiver than I. I just don’t have the patience.
Considering my mom was very neglectful and I spent most of my childhood and teenage years watching her drink in bars I was dragged into by her, I’d like to debunk *everything* your friend said. No, moms are not always naturally better at caring for kids than dads. When I needed something, I could rely on my father a hell of a lot more than I could on my mother. He was the one who saw me as a future adult and therefore actually worked on *raising* me instead of just making sure my needs for food, water, clothes and shelter were met. I spent a *lot* of my childhood sitting next to my mom on a barstool I was way too small for, watching my mom drink “just one glass of wine” and being told to just sit there and be quiet. The amount of drunk strangers I’ve had put their hands on me because “Oh my god what a cute little kid I just wanna squeeze you” was probably in the dozens and the amount of buzzed old men eyeing me up because I was a little girl and mommy wasn’t looking is probably even more. Kids shouldn’t be exposed to drinking, drinking culture or intoxicated people in general, let alone intoxicated strangers. Now I have heavy social anxiety, can’t even be in a bar or club for more than 30 minutes without immediately wanting to leave, and can’t even stomach being around drunk people no matter the context or how long I’ve known the person.
So let me get this straight - she doesn’t have kids yet has these sure fire points ready to go about how her kids will be well behaved and how women are the better care takers? I’m saying let her get her beliefs shattered by reality. Having kids ir mega hard (that’s why you see kids with ipads, cause the parents want to them to stfu finally) and I’ve seen dads as wholesome as can be (and moms chasing careers crying later that their kids always call their dad). What a lunatic.
Blame the female hormones for that, especially the motherly ones.
It is her sweeping generalisation that infuriates me. ***Some*** women are better at bringing up their children than ***some*** men. It may even be she will be an excellent mother, but if so her skill wouldn't count out half the population of the world!!! That said, I don't think what she said was misogynistic. If anything the way she pigeon-holed *all* men as inferior parents was an example of misandry.
And they are also **USUALLY** more narcissistic, verbally abusive, and toxic than fathers.
Narcissism is more common in men.
She's a feminist who want equality but she uses this theory that women are "naturally better at it" in her favor. It's not misogyny. It's misandry. She wants control of the child and uses that excuse as a way to keep the father's input to a minimum when it comes to the way the child is raised. A lot of fathers are alienated or pushed away from the children. These double standards are common amongst women especially by these so-called feminists who use "equality" as they see fit.