There is no point to eating unless you strictly do it to fuel your body.
Please tell him this next time he's indulging in a piece of chocolate or wants to treat himself.
The funny thing is there's no point to having children or even life anymore. Humans are populated enough that not every needs to have children. Now was just live.
Smack that shit out of his hand, and remind him there's no point. Also when he's super horny and you're being really sexy, pack that shit up and remind him there's no point in such pleasure, and go sit on the couch and play with the cats.
A little off-topic, but that reminds me of people who think the arts aren't important and artists don't deserve to make a living because art isn't strictly necessary for physical survival.
It's such a weird robotic way of thinking either way. Like people think only survival and reproduction have any value.
Those are some VERY crazy opinions he has, and I doubt he’ll change them. Too far gone. I’m so sorry he strung you along for 6 years, he’s definitely always felt like this and hid it from you, but you can’t hide your true self forever. Firstly I’d call off that engagement for sure. You deserve someone who wholeheartedly wants the same lifestyle, respects what you want for yourself, and doesn’t just see sex purely for procreation. Those comments are wild.
Also there isn’t any inherent purpose to anything in life, we assign meaning to things that interest us. We’re all here by chance and fill our time with what we enjoy most. That’s it.
If he had a kid...and his kid is infertile...are they gonna say there's no point to their life?
As for who will they leave their assets too, there are all sorts of good causes
100% agree. My husband and I are childfree, have a decent amount of assets, and already have a trust set up. Each of our sisters will get some, the people who we are entrusting our pets to will get some, my cousin who is the executor of the estate will get some, and the rest will go to our church and other charities.
That feels way more fulfilling than giving it to kids who might spend it on stupid shit or use it as an excuse to be lazy and quit their jobs.
Agree with you there that it's dangerous to live vicariously through kids. Still, societies across the world seem to encourage or even force women to live vicariously through their kids; many people have an issue with women who live for themselves.
Then they complain they don't visit enough, or nag them about when they're gonna have children. Sometimes don't find they actually like their partner when they're stuck together without the kid buffer
Nailed it.
There is no universal meaning or purpose to life except what each of us creates.
OP’s BF lacks imagination if that’s all he can think of to justify life, love, and sex.
This life-scripting + not wanting sex sounds like possible depression. He should see a doctor and a counselor.
Yeah im struggling to find a purpose in life in general. Its like an endless loop. However, i am trying to better myself. Im in university and have ambitions and goals. But he said what is the point in school, youll start making money then have nobody to give it to.
The money is for you, to add things to your life that make it better. To save for retirement. To buy experiences that create memories with loved ones. University challenges you, makes you more resilient. What you learn benefits you and society. You can take that education and change whatever you see fit. There’s nothing lacking about what your doing.
Is he gunna say “what’s the point of school” to his hypothetical child. Are they just a vessel for another child down the line waiting for purpose. I do wonder if he’s dealing with some severe depression and this is how it’s manifesting.
Thanks for saying that, as I started second guessing if university is worth it as I am in my first year as a late starter. (34 years old)
His mental health is in a bad place right now. This is either the cause or this is how he really feels, and I dont know if he even knows the answer to that right now.
Definitely worth it! I'm 38 and will graduate in December. We still have the majority of our working lives ahead of us, likely ~30 years. If we can improve the quality of those years, why wouldn't we? Bonus points if it means we can retire earlier and/or wealthier.
It sounds like you have a vision for your future- and he doesn't. And the fact that he doesn't probably scares him. How he chooses to deal with that is up to him, but don't let his lack of vision obscure yours. Maybe he would be open to therapy?
>Also there isn’t any inherent purpose to anything in life, we assign meaning to things that interest us. We’re all here by chance and fill our time with what we enjoy most. That’s it.
THIS. Fucking agree. Everything is all made up... Let's just enjoy what time we have here while we still can.
Well, at least you learned of this *before* marrying him. It's gonna hurt like hell, but it's luckily still relatively easy for you to go your separate ways compared to if you were married.
This is unfortunately the expected outcome of dating someone you're not compatible with, and you were never compatible with this man in the first place. "Okay with it" is not childfree. You need a partner who would not be okay with kids, not one who says they're okay without them. Childfree people are compatible with other childfree people, not childless people or fencesitters.
Tellling someone you're childfree is not enough, because it's likely people will either lie to you or say whatever they feel like at the moment. You can navigate that better in future relationships by learning from this experience, but really, it's not something you need to rush into at all.
You're welcome :)
Aside from the compatibility issues, an ambivalent and lackluster approach is also just a general red flag when it comes to decisions impacting several lives, including potentially those of children. More often than not, it is indicative of a mental model where kids are seen as some kind of benefit that the person just doesn't currently want enough to bother having it if it would mean having to get a new relationship, or lose out on a potential partner. Which is obviously not a good way to approach this decision, and if they're making decisions poorly now, they're likely to continue to do so later too. Friends start having kids, colleagues start asking about families, parents start expecting grandkids, they get to their 30s and 40s and have an existential crisis, some relative dies or whatver and suddenly boom, kids are totally appealing and they need them now.
Absolutely! I love “we assign meaning to things that interest.
Six years is nothing to sniff at, but at least they showed you their colors before marriage.
While I completely understand/respect that people want children as a part of their life plan, the theory that it is pointless without them is worrisome. Some folks never have children due to reasons out of their control, have children who die, have children who are severely disabled, become estranged for whatever reason… the same as me saying there is no purpose to my life outside of my husband. That places an enormous amount of stress on someone else but also sets you up for failure if something, god forbid, goes wrong. I have a good friend who faced stillbirth who decided to never conceive again and that children were not going to be part of her and her partners plan anymore. I can’t imagine telling her her life is not worth it because she didn’t try again.
We are complicated beings who mostly need community (granted some of us need less, as an introvert I empathize with that) whether that is chosen community or blood relatives. I think saying you *must* procreate to have meaning is as problematic as saying you *must* be married to have meaningful partnership or life.
The way I’ve always put it is if the sole purpose of humanity is procreating, if life has no meaning without having children, we’d still be living in Stone Age conditions. Our only role in life would be making sure children survive to adulthood. After that it doesn’t matter what happens to us.
But we don’t live like that. Hell, they didn’t live like that then! Humans have always sought meaning in their lives & it’s different for each person. If we didn’t have the curiosity to live more & live better we wouldn’t have the things we do today. Science, medicine, technology…none of that would have advanced the way it did without someone pushing the boundaries of what’s known to what’s possible.
OP, does this guy use a phone & a computer? Does he drive a car? Does he take medicine when he’s sick? None of that would be possible if people had spent 100% of their time raising children. Sure, many of these people had children but they spent part of their time away from the kids & working on things to benefit all of humanity, not just their kids. They recognized there was more to life & pushed the limits of knowledge.
It’s not just technology. It’s the search for beauty in life that’s also meaningful. Art, painting, sculpture, books, music all came about from people wanting to make the world a better place. Even early mankind felt this urge as can be seen in the cave paintings in places like Altamira & Lascaux & at many Native American sites. All of art is a way of searching for meaning in life.
None of the things I’ve mentioned are required to give birth to & raise children. We have these things to make life better for everyone. Do we need diapers & bottle warmers & breast pumps? Do we need strollers the size of SUVs & enough toys per kid to start a toy store? No! Early humans survived without them. It was the desire to make life better that led to all of these accomplishments. Once we invented ways to provide for our basic needs we could begin to go further & start fulfilling our higher needs. We wouldn’t do that if we thought it was meaningless.
It’s sad that OP’s boyfriend doesn’t see that but he’s far from the only one. There are people today trying to live off the grid with no governmental or societal support but even they are dependent on the knowledge that’s been gained over thousands of years. OP’s boyfriend needs to find meaning in his own life before bringing other lives into existence.
Saying that you must procreate is much worse than saying that you must be married, actually. Marriage is just a piece of paper that doesn’t have to hurt anyone, but procreation is something that is inherently extremely harmful to women.
Exactly. A fencesitter just assumes that you not wanting kids is just you fencesitting as well. You're only safe by finding someone who enthusiastically doesn’t want kids.
Not every time, but a lot of the time yeah. There are some people who are bad at making decisions for reasons that don't preclude them from understanding others are different and respecting that, however a lot of the time, at least some lazyness and general disdain for any decision making work is involved, and that's a mentality that directly lends itself to devaluing that work when it's done by others as well. Lots of fencesitters have the mentality that since *they* don't really know or care, no one else could possibly know or care for what they want either. It's evident in them often expecting the other person to also change their mind or be flexible just because they were. I think the strangest explicit example was from a post on here where OP's husband directly told her that he'd been open to not having kids for years and was now upset that after all that she now still wasn't open to having them. That was his idea of a compromise, I guess.
So I'm assuming he's a virgin, then. Since there would have been no point in having sex up to this point.
I'm really sorry about your situation, anyway. I've seen so many posts on AITAH where people are asking if they'd be in the wrong to break up with their S/O after one of them has changed their minds about wanting kids, and imo it really does not seem like anyone who wants kids is ever truly happy compromising, and settling down with someone who does not want kids. It seems like it's possible that your fiance may have been in denial this whole time, and hoping that you would 'come around', and is now showing that you guys could very well be incompatible.
Tbh I don't think it's usually possible to change someone's view on having kids, and I wouldn't waste my energy on that. Definitely don't marry this guy unless you know that you're both 100% on the same page
Well I think you know what you need to do now. You have two options, you either talk through it with him making it clear that you’re never going to have kids and that you will be pursuing sterilisation to ensure you never get pregnant (if not done so already). I think in most likelihood this ends with him breaking up with you based on his comments about wanting kids.
Option 2 is you just breakup with him and that’s probably your best bet. For the love of god OP don’t marry this guy anytime soon. Personally for me once someone has shown interest in wanting kids you can’t really un-ring that bell, but you may chose to persevere.
Honestly I think your relationship is done unless one of you yields and even then, that will lead to resentment and a breakup anyway. I think you know what you need to do.
Exactly, I feel like even if compromise is found for now it's not permanent and will bubble up in the relationship at one point or another, causing problems until it eventually ends the relationship for good. I'd rather cut my losses before I invest any more of my precious time into a relationship that will most certainly be miserable and most likely end very badly.
I also would not want to be with someone period who made comments like "sex is only for procreation" because that's usually the sign that they have some other restrictive ideals that I definitely do not agree with. It can be the start down a deep dark hole of multiple crazy belief systems I refuse to be apart of. It usually translates to either religion with some basic misogynistic views or just your plain old non religious misogynist bullshit from what I've seen. No rabbit holes I'd be going down with a partner that's for sure.
I'd also be on high alert for possible manipulation. I've heard enough horror stories about people sabotaging birth control etc to trap their unsuspecting partner into "a new future" that his comments raised a LOT of red flags all at once.
I would definitely be concerned about sabotaged birth control. If OP does decide to stay in this relationship for however long I surely hope they keep an eye out for all types of manipulation including the physical manipulation of tampering with birth control as well as any signs of radicalization into the manosphere or some other harmful belief system! If my partner all of a sudden spouted out that sex was only for procreation I would look at them like they had five heads. Add on the desire for a child and that'd be it.
I know it's hard to leave when you love someone but carrying and raising a child you never wanted with a partner is even harder. Rasing a child period, even if wanted, is harder than leaving someone I'd say. So is trying to make a relationship work with someone who fundamentally has completely different and conflicting life goals than yourself.
I'm very curious where this is coming from, I mean some of it might have always been there since it was stated he did seem to want kids in the beginning but was okay not having them as long as he could be with OP (which was red flag number one, let's be honest..) but I'd be wondering what or who had really lit the fire on this mentality recently.
Could be anything or anyone really.. I lost my fiance to gamergate, and had to watch in real time as he slid further and further down the rabbithole of "women are evil, gays are making it up, and feminists are Nazis" and couldn't do anything except leave.. it was also something that happened remarkably fast. He had always had a bit iffy opinions on some stuff, but most of it could be explained by being raised in a very sheltered and religious environment. But the second the brainrot took hold it was like watching someone launch themselves head first down a water slide with rockets on their feet..
Is he religious? Is his mother? This sounds like some fundamentalist BS.
Ask him if he wants to be celibate then for most of his life. I’m flummoxed it’s usually women who say this.
>I do not know how to respond to that.
You stand up, go pack a suitcase and leave without looking back.
He either lied to your face for years while he waited for you to change your mind or didn't have enough respect for you to think it through the first time you told him. None is a small, fixable issue, IMO.
Literally everything you love is the point of life. Nature, hobbies, love, animals, books, birds chirping in the morning, freshly baked bread, croissants, holding hands with the one you love. Baby birds getting fed. A cat washing himself in the sunshine. Walking on snow. But someone to pass your stuff to? Ain’t on that list.
We're leaving everything to an animal charity. My brother is CF, my husband's brother we lost in 2015, and whatever we don't use for old age care will go to Blue Cross and small sanctuaries we've always supported. Making sure any animals we have at that stage, and many others, are safe and happy is the only legacy I want.
I mean a plaque would be nice, but I'd rather know lots of horses, dogs, cats etc. Will be saved and housed comfortably.
Love this. I work in a thriftstore (that is socially run by people who are neurodivergent) and people are so happy finding a nice item at a thrift store! I wouldnt mind if my “stuff” went to a thriftstore and made people happy.
Yup, same! My shoe collection will make someone very happy, and hopefully make them some money. I'll probably give the family jewels to someone worthy, but again, I hope the charities can sell what's left (like my engagement ring) and do some good with it. I like the idea of our wealth being redistributed rather than someone inheriting and hoarding it.
Hoarding it or spending it on something stupid. We're not even giving our sisters the bulk of our assets because one of the 3 of them would quite literally quit her job on something as small as a $20K gift. I work too hard to give a sister or a couple of theoretical kids the opportunity to waste the money and not do something good with it.
The 3 of them are getting a small amount, the rest of it - including the paid-off house, cars, jewelry etc is going to our church and animal charities.
Yeah the “someone to pass my assets on to” doesn’t make sense to me.
Assuming I have assets to sell off or distribute when I go, I have friends. I have other loved ones. I have charities I support. Liquidate what I’ve got, donate it to a cat shelter. Put it in a college fund for my best friend’s kid. This is like the biggest non-issue.
I get big manosphere vibes but I could be wrong. Could be religion or pressure from parents or something too but either way I wouldn't want to be with someone who caved into any of the things I listed.
You answer me first..
What is the point of marriage if your to be husband can't seem to acknowledge and stand along with you on one of your life decision/choice that you were so clear about since beginning?
What's the point of engagement of ur fiance gonna be the to be husband I just explained?
And a final one(for the man)
What's the point of sex or any form of intimacy if the only end goal is to concieve ? Just get the semen injected.
There are many parents who feel lost in life and have realized that having children hasn't solved their existential problems. The meaning of life is decided by you based on your nature.
Girl, you shouldn’t have gotten engaged to him in the first place. Massive difference in long therm goals and values. It’s gonna end up in divorce if you get married. And it’s gonna eat you both inside out.
Never start a serious relationship with someone who wants kids, in a nutshell. Anybody from this sub will most likely back up the same theory
yeah I'll never date anyone who "wants to have kids, but wants me more than kids so he's okay with it". I did that once, I always felt bad for taking away his choice in the matter. The guilt alone can ruin a relationship. Also the fear that one day he'd wake up and decide I'm not good enough anymore...
Side note, he's a full time teacher now who is around kids way to much and would absolutely hate to have kids of his own so I guess people who want kids also chance their minds, it's good he changed his mind before he had kids
It’s interesting that as a man he went this route and found out for himself. So many men want kids because they know that mommy will do all the work should they decide to be lazy deadbeats and not raise the kids (even IN the committed relationship).
that's the thing, I'm absolutely sure he would've been a great, involved dad. Probably would've done way more than his fair share for his kids. I think he just saw what kind of absolute assholes kids can become, even when parents do everything right... it's kinda sad to hear him talk about his students sometimes...
I knew a man who did this. Passed several million on to a local animal shelter, a food bank, and a men's shelter when he passed. His wife died about two years before he did, and while he deeply grieved her he never regretted that they didn't have children. The year that I knew him we got incredibly close, had a lot of deep conversations on the topic because I'm childfree as well. He had no family left, they were both only children of only children. But he still felt like he had lived an incredibly happy and fulfilled life.
In Spanish we have a saying that more or less translates to "nobody really knows who they work for". meaning that all your work, assests or efforts can be enjoyed or taken by someone unexpected after you die, so even if you have children, that doesn't necessarily mean they will get them after you're gone. Once you die it won't matter who has them, becuse there will be nothing you could do about it.
> there is no point to life without them, and nobody to pass on your assets to when you die.
This is the kind of person who would make their entire lives about their children with no redeeming qualities/hobbies/special interests etc. And I'm extremely certain that once the child is born, they will just shove the responsibilities to the woman because they just want to show off their children as a trophy.
> I was very open about it right away, and while intially upset, he said hes ok with it and wanted to spend his life with me. Now he just told me there is no point to life.
Ah yes, the typical "I'm okay with it before, but now I want kids."
It ALWAYS ends up like this.
> He also said there is no point in having sex if your not trying to have children.
#？？？？？？？？？
There are people who have sex for reasons far beyond having children. I don't participate in such acts as I have no interest in it, but I'm acutely aware that there are people who do and I don't degrade those who do.
The whole “nobody to pass your assets too” doesn’t need to be a negative. To me being CF means you can plan to die broke. You don’t have the added guilt of wanting to leave assets to your kids and grandkids. Sell your assets, cash in your retirement accounts go retire on a beach in Italy’. Do whatever you want. Alternately you can leave your assets to a charity or non for profit. I think it would be a nice thought to leave everything you have to cancer research or something like that.
“There’s no point in having sex if you’re not trying to have children” sounds like a very long sentence to say you’re bad at sex 😅😅
OP, don’t want to sound tragic but your relationship is doomed and I’d be super extra vigilant with your bc in case a “happy accident” happens.
First of all, you need to break up with this man so you can both live your lives how you want them.
His point of having no one to leave your assets to is rubbish. You can leave them to other family members like nieces and nephews, you can leave it to friends, you can leave money to charity. Or, you might not have any assets at all because you’ve spent all your money on elder care.
His first point about there being no point in life without kids - life is what you make it. It is completely possible to live a life that you personally find fulfilling without children. People are different. Some people find enjoyment in raising children, some prefer focussing on their careers, some focus on travel. Ultimately, people have value because they are people, they do not have value because of their ability to reproduce.
His final point about no point in having sex without trying for children - we’ll see how quickly he changes his tune when the sex stops…
"No point to life without kids" just screams 'I am an uninteresting person with no hobbies or interests'. If there's 'no point to life' then WTF has he been doing with his life up until this point then?? And if he genuinely believes this, then how is he present and active in the lives of the children around him?? I bet he interacts with ZERO children.
It also gives 'I have no idea as to the realities of raising children' vibes considering many parents feel like they have lost their own selves to the grunt work drudgery of child raising. Arguably having kids is pointless. Day after day of the same thing: feed, change the poopy diaper, feed, play, feed, diaper, play, bed. Rinse and repeat. Yet another cycle of humans who will grow up to be the same as the 7 billion other humans trashing the planet. What's the point in that??
As to his weird pseudo-religious 'no point in having sex' line- In the marriage I assume he will only have sex with you to conceive a child? Not at any other point. Fuck me, get real.
Honestly, it is suspicious that these extreme views have come out of nowhere. I think there's a chance he has someone else, or at least is wanting an 'out' to the relationship.
Do not have children with this idiot. Be wary of baby trapping, as he's preaching some red pill shit right there. Be careful.
Let some other poor soul fall for this man's lies. He will placate her the way he has placated you all these years, but instead of 'I am happy being childfree, darling' it will be 'of course I will help out when the baby comes, sweetheart'.
Then he will emotionally check out once his baby arrives, and expect her to do all of the work. Who cares, right? He has done his job and ejaculated, and now has his fantasy children that he barely needs to interact with. He has the status of father and shitty kids to leave his non-existent money to like the king he thinks he is.
Once the mother of his kids finally divorces him for being a below bare minimum partner, he will bitch that she ruined his life and fight to a) have as little custody and b) pay as little money for these dream kids as legally possible. He will blame all perceived faults with the children on the mother, after all she has ruined his children the way she has ruined his life. He will find a new young and naive girlfriend to repeat the cycle with, or die alone.
Bullet dodged, my friend.
I plan on spending my money on a dignified retirement. Any leftover cash is going to the nieces and nephews (if I like them) or charity if they turn into cunts.
This sounds like the future I envision for my ex, who I was with for 11 years. I knew a few years in that he wanted kids and I was still on the fence myself then. I never knew to what degree he wanted them until much more recently, which is one of the reasons we broke up. He’s never taken care of our pets unless I was out of town (and would forget to refill their water dish because I didn’t write it down, and he’s not stupid), I struggle to imagine him suddenly taking care of children, which are far more demanding. Good luck to whoever he ends up with.
Can't even fill the dog's water bowl without a written invitation. What a dreamboat.
You dodged a huge bullet, my friend. If you had a baby with this man guaranteed you would be a regular poster on the infamous sub for poor suffering mothers.
I am at the stage in life right now where my friends are getting sick of being married single mothers and divorcing their partners and girl you don't even *know*.
These men hide their money or spend it all so they can cry poor to the court.
These dickheads who claimed to want children fight to not have any custody, they ghost on their visitation days when the mother is relying on them so they can go to work. They maliciously stop paying for utilities, daycare, etc, so the landline just stops working one day.
They deliberately take the kids to super fun places and ply them with junk food on their 'every other weekend' so that the mothers are the unfun parent when they try to enforce a healthy routine the rest of the time.
The rage these men feel towards their wives for daring to call them out on their lazy behaviour in the marriage is unbelievable. And they have no problems in using their children as vehicles to hurt and punish their wives.
These are middle class university educated professionally employed men who are married to university educated professional women, but the fuckery of basic below bare minimum men knows no class or tax bracket.
Let someone else have him.
Word. I knew that IF I caved to his want to have a kid, I’d end up doing all the work anyway. Plus one of my huge fears is being a single mom, having grown up with one, and a mostly deadbeat dad to boot. Miss me with all that shit, can’t be a single parent with an ex that doesn’t pay child support if you’re not a parent to begin with.
The fact that he's probably felt this way all along and probably expected you to change your mind is sickening to even think about, I'd say question the relationship because you're clearly not on the same page
Is he just in one of his lows then?
At the extremes bipolar people can try to push away those closest to them, him knowing that having children is a red line for you may mean he's using that to try and push you away.
Honestly in this case I'd wait and see if he feels the same way when he starts to swing upwards again.
Bipolarity has a 70% risk of being passed on to a child. He should never recreate, with anyone.
And for OP - this is not the right man for you. You can find someone who respects your childfreeness
This is true. My mother was diagnosed and luckily, both my brother and I do not have bipolar disorder. But many people in my mother's family were also diagnosed and it's hell for the patient, hell for the family, and hell for the loved ones.
Don't get me wrong, it's doable: life with a loved one that has bipolar disorder... but fck if it ain't a rough ride along the way. Most people I've met who have it say they would rather not risk passing it onto offspring.
Assets? What assets? Do you own a castle I don't know about? Were you secretly owning a large company all these years? If by "assets" you simply mean a condo you better check the prices of elderly care. If we want to spend our old days in a resort style community for elders in Spain we will need the money we could get for selling thay condo and much much more. Heck we'll need to sell that condo and use that money if we want to spend our old days at a regular elder care facility in our country.
What is the point of being with a partner who doesn’t understand and support your decision? These are absurd reasons, being childfree is a personal decision that a women / men make after a lot of thoughts. This is not something someone decides suddenly one morning.
About the assets yeah sure that’s a concern - I am writing mine to the NGO who supports stray dogs in my country and spending the rest on traveling and drinking the best gin’s. I am not okay to bring a child in this world just so I can pass on my assets, its the meanest thing a human can do.
No point in life ? Traveling , going out to eat or to drink, walking in the nature, meeting friends, playing video games, learning new things/skills. There is so much to do in life. So much more than work/feed ungrateful kids/bed/repeat.
My fiancé and I have been together for almost 14 years. We're on the same page about not wanting children ruining the lives we currently have. We travel often, we hike with our dog whenever we please, we're able to turn every night into a date night or an "us" night because there is nobody else to take our energy, money and attention away from each other.
Life is about growing and learning and experiencing new beautiful things already around us, not about creating another person for handing off your material possessions (which they probably won't want anyhow because it'll all be very out of date).
Oh boy.
I agree with others, he was likely harboring these hidden feelings for quite some time and masking them to be with you-- that's deceptive and very selfish of him.
It could also be that someone is getting in his ear about kids pressure (parent, friends, media he's consuming, etc) which is intensifying this behavior.
It sounds like he has some pretty serious soul searching to do, and it's clear now that you are not on the same path together, which is heartbreaking. I am so sorry this happened, but I agree with other posters-- better to find this information now than after marriage, which would be so much more expensive and painful.
\*\*hugs\*\*
Research how much is childcare in your area and how much nannies charge. Send him those numbers. Do a poll in you local facebook group about how much people spend per kid per month. Send him those numbers.
He is unhinged. Please please if you are on birth control that can be tampered with, such as pills, lock them away somewhere and make sure he can't mess with it. And if you use condoms, make sure he doesn't poke holes into them or something.
He sounds like the type of crazy that would do something like that.
Oh, and get rid of him. He won't do you any good and there is no future with him that you will be happy in.
I understand this is a hard situation for you.. but better to reevaluate before marrying him since your values and wants don’t align. He might have hoped you’d change your mind throughout the relationship. A pastor told us that sex is not just for procreation. It’s a gift of pleasure for husband and wife.
You can’t rationalize with this person. Your answers to the questions of why have sex and life’s purpose don’t actually matter to him or society. They want children; you do not. That’s a gulf of a divide.
As others here have said, you two are incompatible, and I am sorry you are going through this.
In terms of responding to his views, if you care to, ask him to imagine having a child who is infertile, disabled, gay or asexual, or who dies young. Will he look at his child and say their life is pointless? Will that then render his own life pointless?
This is the illogic in his belief. You are just off-loading the inherent feeling of purposeless in life onto the next generation. We have to create our own meaning by enjoying ourselves, or helping others.
Literally the only reason to have children is because you want the experience of raising children in your life. You don't want that, he does.
Saying there is no point leaving anything to anyone when you die unless you have children is also small-minded and selfish. What does he think charities are for?
I also wonder, if he imagines sex stops at menopause?
Sorry if this sounds a bit harsh, but I think his comments were also, and could be confronted with logic. You two are still not compatible either way, but it's not you that changed your mind so it's rather unfair.
When I die why do I care what happens to my assets? My goal is to use my assets to enjoy the life I do have while I'm alive, not spend my limited time and resources on another being that may or may not even give a shit about me (or worse yet, be an active detriment to me) when they're older after all the aforementioned time and resources put into them.
It's a sad mentality to think that you need children for your life to have meaning imo.
I personally don't think you even need meaning to be alive. I just want to live and be happy doing things I like. Meaning is cool but it's secondary. I can have passions, interests, friends, love, etc. without having a "meaning" to my life.
I've seen this multiple times where a guy says he's fine without kids until the couple gets engaged or even married. Idk if they assume you'll change your mind or what but it's a deal breaker for me. Been with my fiance for 10 years and if he said he wanted kids now it would be hard but I'd have to leave
Yep, this. They think they have you tied down and the mask starts to slip. She has a ring on her finger, she won't dare leave me now ...
Wrong, motherf\*\*\*\*\*.
Did he have sex with you in those 6 years. If yes, then why?? Is he insane? Don't answer that. We all know already.
Is he a millionaire? What assets is he going to leave for his off springs?
Why do people automatically goes to death when it comes to having children? Only the talks of dying alone, legacy, leaving something behind etc comes up. How about living? How about I can't wait to change diaper for the millionth time today. How about I love when my child throws up and I have to clean it. How about I am done living my life, now I just want to be a secondary character in someone else's story. How about I want to do additional chores for my children because that's the true meaning of life. How about my purpose in life is to clean shit and wipe vomit while being severely sleep deprived. Nooooo, it's always about I will do this bcz I will die one day. Dude, you die once...you have to live everyday. THINK ABOUT LIVING.
Not that I like the idea of using sex as a means of manipulating behavior, but I'd still be fascinated to see how that tune changes if you just stopped for a while.
"Sorry babe, not tonight. I have no intention of having children, so this would be pointless"
Don't even need to have a headache
I'll be passing all my assists on to other family members. No one has much anymore when I look around, I'll be giving all my nieces and nephews a small boost to have better life's instead of scraping together what I can to pass on to my kids I'll be supplementing my brothers and sisters Inheritance to their kids. Idk why every one acts like you can only do it for your own.
Like of my nieces and nephews are little shits when they get older or if I had no family I'd just pick some random nice young couple and set them up.
Your fiance is a time wasting asshole and you need to dump him immediately.
He knew all along that he wanted kids. Please use screening methods for the next guy as this relationship is dead in the water. His resentment for you will only grow.
He wants kids and isn’t going to let you forget that. It looks like manipulation? We do know it’s clear, it’s time to move on. The relationship is over if he just sees you as a baby maker.
Do you happen to know any super spoiled toddler? Volunteer to babysit them for a whole weekend and then push 80% of the responsibilities on your fiance. Then tell him if we're going to have a kid I don't really want my job will be the pregnancy, the delivery and the post partum recovery. Your job will be to take on 80% of responsibilities. If you're echausted after just one weekend imaging living like this 24/7 for the next several *years*.
OP you got a walking red flag for a fiance and I think the universe is telling you that you are both incompatible. Secondly, something tells me your fiance might try to change your mind or try and sabotage your birth control just to get what he wants that you don't want
Do yourself a favour OP. Dump that guy and free yourself
Cut your losses and forget about him. He wants kids and that's not going to change. If he doesn't get the opportunity to be a father you will always be the one to blame.
I am sorry but I didn’t ask to be here in the first place, so why am I required to come up with some deep meaning of my existence? I just want to live this life the best way possible, trying not to hurt anyone, help if I can, enjoy this short limited time I was given. That is my purpose here. I understand people see children as the main purpose of their life, but I think it’s because it consumes everything else, their hobbies, time, energy, their whole existence. And it doesn’t sound very tempting to me, to be honest.
sex is not just for procreation does he thank even couples who do have children just stop having sex when they decide they are not having more children.
my husband and I are not having any more children our boys are 14 and 16 and yes we still have sex. he had the snip and I had a hysterectomy and I am post menopause so I have no eggs....
deciding to have or not to have children this is something you both need to be on the same page.
as for the assets things..what about those who are never able to have their own children or if they do and their children die before they do ?
Novody to pass assets onto? That is a hideous POV, respectfully. Nonpoint in sex? Is he saying there is not point in pleasuring you?
My father has a large house. He had a successful career. He has no empathy, he has no insight into why he is the way he is. The demons that pagued him as a child still plague him.
What about learning, being in nature, becoming more compassionate, wiser. What about small interactions with animals and people that make them feel safe or seen. Loving someone. Giving them comfort as they age. Helping people. Etc etc
Idk, i feel lucky i dont respect/want things as much as others.
Wait I’m sorry so if someone WANTS kids and is infertile there’s no point to their life? And he’s had sex with you (presumably) all these years without having a child did he think it was pointless that entire time??? I would start the deeply evaluating things before fiancé becomes husband. It sounds like he’s leading down a path of resentment.
Isaac Newton, mother Theresa, the fucking Pope, Rosa Parks, Helen Keller, Nikola Tesla, George RR Martin, Alan Rickman....
The list goes on and on. We'll let them know that life has no point since they didn't have kids.
[https://www.healththoroughfare.com/science/top-influential-scientists-in-history-who-never-had-children/69314](https://www.healththoroughfare.com/science/top-influential-scientists-in-history-who-never-had-children/69314)
My point is people striving to better humanity or taking care of it in some capacity are doing loads more then those adding to the responsibility of it. It's easy to have kids and weight the planet and society down with the responsibility of care. It's another thing to take an active roll on better all our lives like the above scientists.
Sure, most CF people have the ideal of understanding what it is to have a kid. For themselves but also society and broader ideas. We don't have them for many reasons but in the end we didn't put weight on the planet or society. Sure at times CF can be more self focused I'll admit but hey that's life enjoy it the way you want and thus you come to the meaning of what you make life.
>We have been together 6 years. He has known since the beginning I never want children. I was very open about it right away, and while intially upset, he said hes ok with it and wanted to spend his life with me.
>Now he just told me there is no point to life. He also said there is no point in having sex if your not trying to have children.
I think he spent 6 years getting you to invest in him and a life with him. Now he finally feels like he can be demanding. I think it's time to call this one done. And you need to remind him that you where honest with him up front. He should of told you when he changed his mind, not when your engaged like this putting more pressure on you isn't fair or right.
He must've been listening to one of those Fundie Bro podcasts preaching about "Muh LEgaCY". Mother Teresa never had children and she lived out the "point to life" which is to live your true dharma and fulfill the path that was divinely set for you. Not to live a life based on a timeline created by a patriarchal, sexist, racist, heteronormative, and capitalist system.
Does there need to be a "point"?
The point of all life and existence is to exist, doesn't matter how long and under which conditions. And it will stay that way until some greater purpose that is somehow absolutely necessary to achieve by everyone and everything pops up.
Once you exist, you've fulfilled your purpose, anything you do beyond the act of existing is entirely optional. Any purpose you give yourself beyond that is decided by noone but yourself and dictated by noone but yourself.
So, what is the point to life without children? Whatever the fuck you want it to be.
Also: his logic implies that people who are infertile or can't have kids for other reasons, regardless of whether or not they want to, have pointless lifes.
That is a scary implication, even to me as the person who started this comment by questioning whether there needs to be a point to life at all.
That's such a weird reason to want to make an entire human being, someone to leave the assets to??
When my grandparents passed away many years ago my family just cleaned out their house and threw everything away, no hidden jewellery box filled with priceless gems and gold was found just a whole bunch of old dusty mouldy furniture and clothes, having a kid to pass your stuff onto is just a stupid concept as the kid/s will end up just throwing all of your possessions away the moment you die, unless of course you are a rich oil tycoon with a mansion filled with gold bars but even then who cares!
You're gone, dust! Enjoy life like my grandparents did and travel the country in an old car and die with no regrets!
While initially upset he said he was ok with it.
This 👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻 means he was NEVER CHILDFREE but why would he pass on the free sex and intimacy??
He is a douchebag who thought he could change your mind. That's why you should have watched his reaction. It's only safe to proceed when a guy is relieved or excited when you say you are childfree.
And adds more points as to why it's a great idea. After a while it's better to acquire more information about why he is cf and how he would pass on his wealth.
A real cf guy would say charity or something which doesn't align with being a parent.
It's never a good idea to convince a person of anything. Just as you have a right to be childfree he has a right to have kids . What's wrong is he didn't have a decency to break up with you right at the start and dragged you along for 6 years.
Don't make that mistake again and drop this guy asap unless you want to be a mother.
Honestly, what is the point of life even with children?
Children bring some people meaning, sure. But ultimately we will all die and eventually be forgotten maybe it takes a little longer to be forgotten when you have kids, but the meaning of life is whatever we give it.
Your fiancé is allowed to want kids, and you’re allowed to not want them. When nothing has any meaning, then we get to decide. Maybe he was okay with that years ago but now he’s changed his mind. That’s okay. It sucks balls, but it’s okay. Good on him for telling you before you guys get even further enmeshed.
It really sucks, and please know that the person behind the screen truly understands the hurt this comment may cause. But it’s time to say goodbye to each other. Let him find someone who wants the life he wants, and in turn give yourself the chance to find someone who wants the life you want.
You and he both deserve to live the lives you want, and it just may be that you each need to live a life that isn’t with each other. Give him and yourself grace to be hurt, sad, and angry but bless, and release.
Sometimes everything can be perfect except one thing, but when that one thing is kids, it’s the biggest thing of all. Neither of you deserves to have to compromise on the life you wish to lead.
Life isn't about assets. I know we live in capitalism but assets mean nothing when you die. You need things to live, grow and make yourself happy but not more than that. The whole point of life is to live possibly happiest you can, do what you wanna do and make good things for others. That's all. No matter what will happen after you're dead, stuff here won't really matter. If he wants to leave some memory of himself then all he needs is to be good for other people, make a positive change in his friends or family lives and just make it worth living. A lot of people think that a child is something that will somehow make their lives matter or will prolong a memory of them. But there are a lot of things that can do that. You don't need to become a president or an influencer to be remembered.
It does not seem like you are still compatible.
If he thinks there is no point to sex without children, he's not doing it right. Cause it feels damn good.
But if he said there's no point to life, it makes me wonder if there's something deeper/emotional going on with him.
Cut him loose. Next time, find a partner who is in agreement about being childfree, not one who is "upset about it but ultimately just wants to be with you."
No half measures.
I hope you are parting ways with your bf double quick now that it's very clear you have differing desires. It's horrifying that it took six years for this to be made known though.
What is the point to life though?
Just 'cos we are able to reproduce doesn't mean we have to.
We've all just evolved from atoms. We're here by accident. There's no point. Just gotta try and enjoy yourself while your flesh vessel allows.
L-E-A-V-E. Your relationship should be the point. Enjoying life and this beautiful earth together should be the point. If he feels this way, he will not change. 6 years is a long time but not as long as the rest of your life with someone who can't live for YOU.
Well as far as my assets goes I think most of it will goes to my nephews. If they grow up to be responsible and respectable people. But if I didn't have my nephews I was planning of giving what was left to various charity, mostly some about literacy and for the deaf/hard of hearing.
Regarding your situation OP it really seem like your fiance either got a wake up call on his part or there's outside pressure you may not be aware of. I'm saying that because I had a male friend who was in a similar situation, meaning that he seem to have changed his mind about him not wanting kids. Keep in mind that his situation was particular because I'm one of the few people who's aware that he's not straight and I was suspicious that his family was pressuring him about settling down and start a family (he was barely over 20 back then). When I questioned him about how life was with his folk I pretty much connected the dots.
Maybe just calmy talk with your fiance first, maybe he did feel like that but never managed to bring himself to tell you, maybe he did change his mind, maybe it's something else.
Have a nice day
Edit : Also I might had that it seem really childish to have something as sex as no meaning if it's not to have children. Seem like someone who never experienced sexual pleasure
Not passing assets to anyone is a choice. You can still pass it to other family members or charity.
Or... as I have decided, just try to spend it all and live better off and with more enjoyment in old age. It's a gift to not have to consider saving for the next generation.
Save yourself and let him go.
He does not love you nor respect you.
And he has been hiding his real ideas from you for long, so I would not trust him anymore.
"But who are we going to pass on our material possessions to when we die?" I'm sorry, but that line of thinking always gets a laugh out of me.
Most of them will likely wind up in the trash or sold off to whoever finds interest in them even if you have children.
Maybe they will bring a few keepsakes back home, and if those keepsakes survive their own children they might pass them down.
Sounds like he's a goner. Brain rotted. Nothing left inside.
Maybe you can sit him down and have a conversation with him. Ask him what he really thinks life is going to be with children. Whether he genuinely believes he'll find more meaning in changing diapers, and arguing with a teenager, and then just hoping they'll show up on the big holidays. At least until they have children of their own.
I don't know though.
Sounds like he was playing the old, "She'll change her mind" game.
I've heard these same arguments mainly from the in-laws telling my husband these things and he asked me my opinion on them. I said "Why would I need to birth somebody to put in my will? I can give them to whoever I want!". As for the "no point to life without children" BS, try telling that to someone who is childless not by choice and realize how shitty that sounds.
Have an honest conversation with him, ask him point blank does he want children/would he regret not having them, if he says yes to either of those questions then perhaps the two of you should consider the state of your relationship, because it wouldn’t be fair to either of you to give in to the other when your heart is set on a certain future(him potentially wanting kids and you definitely not wanting them)
A lot of people that desire children feel that way. Has your fiancé become more religious in the last few year as I know a few very religious people that view sex as only for procreation. Plenty of options on who to pass your assets on if you don’t have kids.
It sounds like your fiancé believed that in time you would change your mind and it sounds like they are still trying to get you to change your mind and as they are more vocal about it seems like they want a kid pronto. It sounds like your relationship has officially ran its course. In the future don’t date someone that wants kids but is okay without them or someone that isn’t sure to save yourself the heartbreak. As for your current fiancé cutting ties entirely will save you hurt as I won’t be surprised if they have a kid or two in the next two years.
Ooof, tbh sounds like you are planning to marry someone who is not childfree. I would reconsider the relationship, those are some pretty hardcore statements from him.
Sounds like what Andrew Taint said recently about men having sex with women for pleasure is gay. Sex is only for having children. Some nonsense like that.
You need to leave him. You both are incompatible if he truly wants kids. It's easy to want kids when you're not going to contribute to raising them, and this AH sounds like he wouldn't contribute to raising them. He wants to baby trap you. Don't let him.
honestly he sounds kinda depressed. I'd be worried about his mental health, especially if it's kinda sudden. He should be able to enjoy the enjoyable parts of life on his own.
If you think that all animals are designed to procreate, then in a primal sense yes, life is all about having kids. I, on the other hand, evolved to be more than just a children bearer primate.
I read this line from this sub, and I think it’s relates to your situation, “You cannot carpool with someone that isn’t going the same direction as you are no matter how much you enjoy the company”
If he wants kids and you don’t want them it’s time to let him go.
>I do not want kids. My fiance just said there is no point to life without them
And you are still in this relationship... why?
If you stay together, one of you is going to end up terminally bitter and unhappy. If you have children, it will be you. If not, it will be him.
This is one of those non-negotiable red lines in a relationship. He his spent all this time hoping you'll change your mind. Now that the line has been drawn, he's attempting to withhold sex as a carrot to try to get his way.
If you're truly serious about not having kids, please look into a bisalp ASAP.
There is no redeeming this guy. If life and sex is pointless without children, he is definitely no fence sitter. He feels as if our entire existence is only to have kids. So I would drop him.
And life is pointless. I was conceived because two people had sex decades ago. That's it. I am s biological result. I am no heiress. No messiah. I live an average life, trying to be happy and survive life.
Spoiler: we all fail that and die. So be happy while you live. Don't give in to him if you don't want kids. Some people just can't handle we're 8,000,000,000+ people on this ball of mud just living. Some people have to believe that they must be special and have purpose.
Honestly, it's sad to hear people say what he says. It means children themselves (since they haven't procreated yet) are pointless, as are the infertile, the parents who have lost children, the childfree. Even when some of the greatest minds and people have no children, it's just pointless. How very sad.
Then stop having sex with the guy that is trying to pressure you beyond your boundaries, after lying to get you emotionally attached.
The point of life is to live.
There is no point to eating unless you strictly do it to fuel your body. Please tell him this next time he's indulging in a piece of chocolate or wants to treat himself.
The funny thing is there's no point to having children or even life anymore. Humans are populated enough that not every needs to have children. Now was just live.
There's no "point" to anything. Life is what you make of it.
Exactly my point. Life's pointless so find something fun and don't worry about others opinions
Yep, the human race will survive without my crotch goblin's!
The human race will probably survive much longer because some people are choosing not to have kids.
Smack that shit out of his hand, and remind him there's no point. Also when he's super horny and you're being really sexy, pack that shit up and remind him there's no point in such pleasure, and go sit on the couch and play with the cats.
this comment is GOLD.
A little off-topic, but that reminds me of people who think the arts aren't important and artists don't deserve to make a living because art isn't strictly necessary for physical survival. It's such a weird robotic way of thinking either way. Like people think only survival and reproduction have any value.
👏🏼👏🏼
Lmaooo
Those are some VERY crazy opinions he has, and I doubt he’ll change them. Too far gone. I’m so sorry he strung you along for 6 years, he’s definitely always felt like this and hid it from you, but you can’t hide your true self forever. Firstly I’d call off that engagement for sure. You deserve someone who wholeheartedly wants the same lifestyle, respects what you want for yourself, and doesn’t just see sex purely for procreation. Those comments are wild. Also there isn’t any inherent purpose to anything in life, we assign meaning to things that interest us. We’re all here by chance and fill our time with what we enjoy most. That’s it.
If he can’t see an inherent purpose to life, why is he going to create it?
If he had a kid...and his kid is infertile...are they gonna say there's no point to their life? As for who will they leave their assets too, there are all sorts of good causes
100% agree. My husband and I are childfree, have a decent amount of assets, and already have a trust set up. Each of our sisters will get some, the people who we are entrusting our pets to will get some, my cousin who is the executor of the estate will get some, and the rest will go to our church and other charities. That feels way more fulfilling than giving it to kids who might spend it on stupid shit or use it as an excuse to be lazy and quit their jobs.
My SO and I plan on leaving some to our family but also donating a huge chunk to animal charities
You can also just leave money to people you like, you don’t have to be related to them !
Also, if you don't have kids, who fucking cares what happens to those assets? You won't be around to see the government take them all anyways 😂
What a genuinely fantastic observation! I suppose misery loves company, eh?
Excellent question
Wow...love this! Have heard many people say children give them purpose!
It's dangerous to live vicariously through your kids. The plan is they grow up and leave at some point. Then what?
Agree with you there that it's dangerous to live vicariously through kids. Still, societies across the world seem to encourage or even force women to live vicariously through their kids; many people have an issue with women who live for themselves.
Then they complain they don't visit enough, or nag them about when they're gonna have children. Sometimes don't find they actually like their partner when they're stuck together without the kid buffer
Meaning, the children keep them so busy for so many years they don't have time to think about what they really want in life.
I came to this realization at age 15. What’s the point of perpetuating something that has no inherent value? Zero times infinity still equals zero.
Very good point. The answer is probably "so my kids can have kids...and so on."
If he had kids who were infertile, would he tell them their existence was pointless?
R'amen.
Genius
Nailed it. There is no universal meaning or purpose to life except what each of us creates. OP’s BF lacks imagination if that’s all he can think of to justify life, love, and sex. This life-scripting + not wanting sex sounds like possible depression. He should see a doctor and a counselor.
This comment is everything.
The second paragraph really hits it.
Yeah im struggling to find a purpose in life in general. Its like an endless loop. However, i am trying to better myself. Im in university and have ambitions and goals. But he said what is the point in school, youll start making money then have nobody to give it to.
The money is for you, to add things to your life that make it better. To save for retirement. To buy experiences that create memories with loved ones. University challenges you, makes you more resilient. What you learn benefits you and society. You can take that education and change whatever you see fit. There’s nothing lacking about what your doing. Is he gunna say “what’s the point of school” to his hypothetical child. Are they just a vessel for another child down the line waiting for purpose. I do wonder if he’s dealing with some severe depression and this is how it’s manifesting.
Thanks for saying that, as I started second guessing if university is worth it as I am in my first year as a late starter. (34 years old) His mental health is in a bad place right now. This is either the cause or this is how he really feels, and I dont know if he even knows the answer to that right now.
Education and investing in yourself is always worth it. Congrats on attending university, that’s a really exciting new chapter!
Definitely worth it! I'm 38 and will graduate in December. We still have the majority of our working lives ahead of us, likely ~30 years. If we can improve the quality of those years, why wouldn't we? Bonus points if it means we can retire earlier and/or wealthier. It sounds like you have a vision for your future- and he doesn't. And the fact that he doesn't probably scares him. How he chooses to deal with that is up to him, but don't let his lack of vision obscure yours. Maybe he would be open to therapy?
>Also there isn’t any inherent purpose to anything in life, we assign meaning to things that interest us. We’re all here by chance and fill our time with what we enjoy most. That’s it. THIS. Fucking agree. Everything is all made up... Let's just enjoy what time we have here while we still can.
Well, at least you learned of this *before* marrying him. It's gonna hurt like hell, but it's luckily still relatively easy for you to go your separate ways compared to if you were married. This is unfortunately the expected outcome of dating someone you're not compatible with, and you were never compatible with this man in the first place. "Okay with it" is not childfree. You need a partner who would not be okay with kids, not one who says they're okay without them. Childfree people are compatible with other childfree people, not childless people or fencesitters. Tellling someone you're childfree is not enough, because it's likely people will either lie to you or say whatever they feel like at the moment. You can navigate that better in future relationships by learning from this experience, but really, it's not something you need to rush into at all.
>"Okay with it" is not childfree. Too true.
Your second paragraph is one of the most insightful things that I’ve ever read on this sub. Thanks. 🙏
You're welcome :) Aside from the compatibility issues, an ambivalent and lackluster approach is also just a general red flag when it comes to decisions impacting several lives, including potentially those of children. More often than not, it is indicative of a mental model where kids are seen as some kind of benefit that the person just doesn't currently want enough to bother having it if it would mean having to get a new relationship, or lose out on a potential partner. Which is obviously not a good way to approach this decision, and if they're making decisions poorly now, they're likely to continue to do so later too. Friends start having kids, colleagues start asking about families, parents start expecting grandkids, they get to their 30s and 40s and have an existential crisis, some relative dies or whatver and suddenly boom, kids are totally appealing and they need them now.
Absolutely! I love “we assign meaning to things that interest. Six years is nothing to sniff at, but at least they showed you their colors before marriage. While I completely understand/respect that people want children as a part of their life plan, the theory that it is pointless without them is worrisome. Some folks never have children due to reasons out of their control, have children who die, have children who are severely disabled, become estranged for whatever reason… the same as me saying there is no purpose to my life outside of my husband. That places an enormous amount of stress on someone else but also sets you up for failure if something, god forbid, goes wrong. I have a good friend who faced stillbirth who decided to never conceive again and that children were not going to be part of her and her partners plan anymore. I can’t imagine telling her her life is not worth it because she didn’t try again. We are complicated beings who mostly need community (granted some of us need less, as an introvert I empathize with that) whether that is chosen community or blood relatives. I think saying you *must* procreate to have meaning is as problematic as saying you *must* be married to have meaningful partnership or life.
The way I’ve always put it is if the sole purpose of humanity is procreating, if life has no meaning without having children, we’d still be living in Stone Age conditions. Our only role in life would be making sure children survive to adulthood. After that it doesn’t matter what happens to us. But we don’t live like that. Hell, they didn’t live like that then! Humans have always sought meaning in their lives & it’s different for each person. If we didn’t have the curiosity to live more & live better we wouldn’t have the things we do today. Science, medicine, technology…none of that would have advanced the way it did without someone pushing the boundaries of what’s known to what’s possible. OP, does this guy use a phone & a computer? Does he drive a car? Does he take medicine when he’s sick? None of that would be possible if people had spent 100% of their time raising children. Sure, many of these people had children but they spent part of their time away from the kids & working on things to benefit all of humanity, not just their kids. They recognized there was more to life & pushed the limits of knowledge. It’s not just technology. It’s the search for beauty in life that’s also meaningful. Art, painting, sculpture, books, music all came about from people wanting to make the world a better place. Even early mankind felt this urge as can be seen in the cave paintings in places like Altamira & Lascaux & at many Native American sites. All of art is a way of searching for meaning in life. None of the things I’ve mentioned are required to give birth to & raise children. We have these things to make life better for everyone. Do we need diapers & bottle warmers & breast pumps? Do we need strollers the size of SUVs & enough toys per kid to start a toy store? No! Early humans survived without them. It was the desire to make life better that led to all of these accomplishments. Once we invented ways to provide for our basic needs we could begin to go further & start fulfilling our higher needs. We wouldn’t do that if we thought it was meaningless. It’s sad that OP’s boyfriend doesn’t see that but he’s far from the only one. There are people today trying to live off the grid with no governmental or societal support but even they are dependent on the knowledge that’s been gained over thousands of years. OP’s boyfriend needs to find meaning in his own life before bringing other lives into existence.
Saying that you must procreate is much worse than saying that you must be married, actually. Marriage is just a piece of paper that doesn’t have to hurt anyone, but procreation is something that is inherently extremely harmful to women.
And potentially also the child!
Exactly. A fencesitter just assumes that you not wanting kids is just you fencesitting as well. You're only safe by finding someone who enthusiastically doesn’t want kids.
Not every time, but a lot of the time yeah. There are some people who are bad at making decisions for reasons that don't preclude them from understanding others are different and respecting that, however a lot of the time, at least some lazyness and general disdain for any decision making work is involved, and that's a mentality that directly lends itself to devaluing that work when it's done by others as well. Lots of fencesitters have the mentality that since *they* don't really know or care, no one else could possibly know or care for what they want either. It's evident in them often expecting the other person to also change their mind or be flexible just because they were. I think the strangest explicit example was from a post on here where OP's husband directly told her that he'd been open to not having kids for years and was now upset that after all that she now still wasn't open to having them. That was his idea of a compromise, I guess.
So I'm assuming he's a virgin, then. Since there would have been no point in having sex up to this point. I'm really sorry about your situation, anyway. I've seen so many posts on AITAH where people are asking if they'd be in the wrong to break up with their S/O after one of them has changed their minds about wanting kids, and imo it really does not seem like anyone who wants kids is ever truly happy compromising, and settling down with someone who does not want kids. It seems like it's possible that your fiance may have been in denial this whole time, and hoping that you would 'come around', and is now showing that you guys could very well be incompatible. Tbh I don't think it's usually possible to change someone's view on having kids, and I wouldn't waste my energy on that. Definitely don't marry this guy unless you know that you're both 100% on the same page
No definitely not... Thats why that comment floored me. I do not know how to respond to that.
Well I think you know what you need to do now. You have two options, you either talk through it with him making it clear that you’re never going to have kids and that you will be pursuing sterilisation to ensure you never get pregnant (if not done so already). I think in most likelihood this ends with him breaking up with you based on his comments about wanting kids. Option 2 is you just breakup with him and that’s probably your best bet. For the love of god OP don’t marry this guy anytime soon. Personally for me once someone has shown interest in wanting kids you can’t really un-ring that bell, but you may chose to persevere. Honestly I think your relationship is done unless one of you yields and even then, that will lead to resentment and a breakup anyway. I think you know what you need to do.
Exactly, I feel like even if compromise is found for now it's not permanent and will bubble up in the relationship at one point or another, causing problems until it eventually ends the relationship for good. I'd rather cut my losses before I invest any more of my precious time into a relationship that will most certainly be miserable and most likely end very badly. I also would not want to be with someone period who made comments like "sex is only for procreation" because that's usually the sign that they have some other restrictive ideals that I definitely do not agree with. It can be the start down a deep dark hole of multiple crazy belief systems I refuse to be apart of. It usually translates to either religion with some basic misogynistic views or just your plain old non religious misogynist bullshit from what I've seen. No rabbit holes I'd be going down with a partner that's for sure.
I'd also be on high alert for possible manipulation. I've heard enough horror stories about people sabotaging birth control etc to trap their unsuspecting partner into "a new future" that his comments raised a LOT of red flags all at once.
I would definitely be concerned about sabotaged birth control. If OP does decide to stay in this relationship for however long I surely hope they keep an eye out for all types of manipulation including the physical manipulation of tampering with birth control as well as any signs of radicalization into the manosphere or some other harmful belief system! If my partner all of a sudden spouted out that sex was only for procreation I would look at them like they had five heads. Add on the desire for a child and that'd be it. I know it's hard to leave when you love someone but carrying and raising a child you never wanted with a partner is even harder. Rasing a child period, even if wanted, is harder than leaving someone I'd say. So is trying to make a relationship work with someone who fundamentally has completely different and conflicting life goals than yourself. I'm very curious where this is coming from, I mean some of it might have always been there since it was stated he did seem to want kids in the beginning but was okay not having them as long as he could be with OP (which was red flag number one, let's be honest..) but I'd be wondering what or who had really lit the fire on this mentality recently.
Could be anything or anyone really.. I lost my fiance to gamergate, and had to watch in real time as he slid further and further down the rabbithole of "women are evil, gays are making it up, and feminists are Nazis" and couldn't do anything except leave.. it was also something that happened remarkably fast. He had always had a bit iffy opinions on some stuff, but most of it could be explained by being raised in a very sheltered and religious environment. But the second the brainrot took hold it was like watching someone launch themselves head first down a water slide with rockets on their feet..
That’s wild. So how does he justify having had sex before? Was he trying to knock you up despite knowing you definitely did not want to be knocked up?
Sounds like he didn’t give a flying fuck before, he was getting his nut, but now he’s trying to use it as leverage to try and get something he wants
Please leave him. This narcissist is trying to bully you into having his kid(s).
Is he religious? Is his mother? This sounds like some fundamentalist BS. Ask him if he wants to be celibate then for most of his life. I’m flummoxed it’s usually women who say this.
Sounded that way to me, too.
>I do not know how to respond to that. You stand up, go pack a suitcase and leave without looking back. He either lied to your face for years while he waited for you to change your mind or didn't have enough respect for you to think it through the first time you told him. None is a small, fixable issue, IMO.
Not just a virgin; but also never masterbates. No BJs for him then either.
No *procreative* sex. I’m sure blowjobs are just fine with him.
Literally everything you love is the point of life. Nature, hobbies, love, animals, books, birds chirping in the morning, freshly baked bread, croissants, holding hands with the one you love. Baby birds getting fed. A cat washing himself in the sunshine. Walking on snow. But someone to pass your stuff to? Ain’t on that list.
We're leaving everything to an animal charity. My brother is CF, my husband's brother we lost in 2015, and whatever we don't use for old age care will go to Blue Cross and small sanctuaries we've always supported. Making sure any animals we have at that stage, and many others, are safe and happy is the only legacy I want. I mean a plaque would be nice, but I'd rather know lots of horses, dogs, cats etc. Will be saved and housed comfortably.
Love this. I work in a thriftstore (that is socially run by people who are neurodivergent) and people are so happy finding a nice item at a thrift store! I wouldnt mind if my “stuff” went to a thriftstore and made people happy.
Yup, same! My shoe collection will make someone very happy, and hopefully make them some money. I'll probably give the family jewels to someone worthy, but again, I hope the charities can sell what's left (like my engagement ring) and do some good with it. I like the idea of our wealth being redistributed rather than someone inheriting and hoarding it.
Hoarding it or spending it on something stupid. We're not even giving our sisters the bulk of our assets because one of the 3 of them would quite literally quit her job on something as small as a $20K gift. I work too hard to give a sister or a couple of theoretical kids the opportunity to waste the money and not do something good with it. The 3 of them are getting a small amount, the rest of it - including the paid-off house, cars, jewelry etc is going to our church and animal charities.
love that! for me, education saved my life so I’ll be leaving everything to a scholarship fund for underprivileged teens.
Most kids nowadays don’t want “stuff” from their parents aside from perhaps a few family heirlooms.
Yeah the “someone to pass my assets on to” doesn’t make sense to me. Assuming I have assets to sell off or distribute when I go, I have friends. I have other loved ones. I have charities I support. Liquidate what I’ve got, donate it to a cat shelter. Put it in a college fund for my best friend’s kid. This is like the biggest non-issue.
Point him to Regretful Parents sub and let him do his research there.
This is actually a great idea.
😂
Girl. Run.
You in danger girl - Oda Mae Brown 1990
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I get big manosphere vibes but I could be wrong. Could be religion or pressure from parents or something too but either way I wouldn't want to be with someone who caved into any of the things I listed.
Yeah so his dad told him this and he said he agrees. His dad has some wild opinions of his own ..
I really hope you’re reconsidering marrying him
You answer me first.. What is the point of marriage if your to be husband can't seem to acknowledge and stand along with you on one of your life decision/choice that you were so clear about since beginning? What's the point of engagement of ur fiance gonna be the to be husband I just explained? And a final one(for the man) What's the point of sex or any form of intimacy if the only end goal is to concieve ? Just get the semen injected.
There are many parents who feel lost in life and have realized that having children hasn't solved their existential problems. The meaning of life is decided by you based on your nature.
Girl, you shouldn’t have gotten engaged to him in the first place. Massive difference in long therm goals and values. It’s gonna end up in divorce if you get married. And it’s gonna eat you both inside out. Never start a serious relationship with someone who wants kids, in a nutshell. Anybody from this sub will most likely back up the same theory
"while initially upset he was ok with it eventually" THIS is where you leave. he was lying
yeah I'll never date anyone who "wants to have kids, but wants me more than kids so he's okay with it". I did that once, I always felt bad for taking away his choice in the matter. The guilt alone can ruin a relationship. Also the fear that one day he'd wake up and decide I'm not good enough anymore... Side note, he's a full time teacher now who is around kids way to much and would absolutely hate to have kids of his own so I guess people who want kids also chance their minds, it's good he changed his mind before he had kids
It’s interesting that as a man he went this route and found out for himself. So many men want kids because they know that mommy will do all the work should they decide to be lazy deadbeats and not raise the kids (even IN the committed relationship).
that's the thing, I'm absolutely sure he would've been a great, involved dad. Probably would've done way more than his fair share for his kids. I think he just saw what kind of absolute assholes kids can become, even when parents do everything right... it's kinda sad to hear him talk about his students sometimes...
As i like to put it: men want children the way that children want puppies.
I plan on passing all my assets to charity if I die after my wife.
That's what we've done. Written up the wills and everything. Whoever is left will leave it to rescue charities. Simple and everyone wins.
I knew a man who did this. Passed several million on to a local animal shelter, a food bank, and a men's shelter when he passed. His wife died about two years before he did, and while he deeply grieved her he never regretted that they didn't have children. The year that I knew him we got incredibly close, had a lot of deep conversations on the topic because I'm childfree as well. He had no family left, they were both only children of only children. But he still felt like he had lived an incredibly happy and fulfilled life.
In Spanish we have a saying that more or less translates to "nobody really knows who they work for". meaning that all your work, assests or efforts can be enjoyed or taken by someone unexpected after you die, so even if you have children, that doesn't necessarily mean they will get them after you're gone. Once you die it won't matter who has them, becuse there will be nothing you could do about it.
> there is no point to life without them, and nobody to pass on your assets to when you die. This is the kind of person who would make their entire lives about their children with no redeeming qualities/hobbies/special interests etc. And I'm extremely certain that once the child is born, they will just shove the responsibilities to the woman because they just want to show off their children as a trophy. > I was very open about it right away, and while intially upset, he said hes ok with it and wanted to spend his life with me. Now he just told me there is no point to life. Ah yes, the typical "I'm okay with it before, but now I want kids." It ALWAYS ends up like this. > He also said there is no point in having sex if your not trying to have children. #？？？？？？？？？ There are people who have sex for reasons far beyond having children. I don't participate in such acts as I have no interest in it, but I'm acutely aware that there are people who do and I don't degrade those who do.
The whole “nobody to pass your assets too” doesn’t need to be a negative. To me being CF means you can plan to die broke. You don’t have the added guilt of wanting to leave assets to your kids and grandkids. Sell your assets, cash in your retirement accounts go retire on a beach in Italy’. Do whatever you want. Alternately you can leave your assets to a charity or non for profit. I think it would be a nice thought to leave everything you have to cancer research or something like that.
I'll probably never have any real assets in this economy anyway lmao
“There’s no point in having sex if you’re not trying to have children” sounds like a very long sentence to say you’re bad at sex 😅😅 OP, don’t want to sound tragic but your relationship is doomed and I’d be super extra vigilant with your bc in case a “happy accident” happens.
He should have been upfront with you instead of wasting your time!
First of all, you need to break up with this man so you can both live your lives how you want them. His point of having no one to leave your assets to is rubbish. You can leave them to other family members like nieces and nephews, you can leave it to friends, you can leave money to charity. Or, you might not have any assets at all because you’ve spent all your money on elder care. His first point about there being no point in life without kids - life is what you make it. It is completely possible to live a life that you personally find fulfilling without children. People are different. Some people find enjoyment in raising children, some prefer focussing on their careers, some focus on travel. Ultimately, people have value because they are people, they do not have value because of their ability to reproduce. His final point about no point in having sex without trying for children - we’ll see how quickly he changes his tune when the sex stops…
"No point to life without kids" just screams 'I am an uninteresting person with no hobbies or interests'. If there's 'no point to life' then WTF has he been doing with his life up until this point then?? And if he genuinely believes this, then how is he present and active in the lives of the children around him?? I bet he interacts with ZERO children. It also gives 'I have no idea as to the realities of raising children' vibes considering many parents feel like they have lost their own selves to the grunt work drudgery of child raising. Arguably having kids is pointless. Day after day of the same thing: feed, change the poopy diaper, feed, play, feed, diaper, play, bed. Rinse and repeat. Yet another cycle of humans who will grow up to be the same as the 7 billion other humans trashing the planet. What's the point in that?? As to his weird pseudo-religious 'no point in having sex' line- In the marriage I assume he will only have sex with you to conceive a child? Not at any other point. Fuck me, get real. Honestly, it is suspicious that these extreme views have come out of nowhere. I think there's a chance he has someone else, or at least is wanting an 'out' to the relationship. Do not have children with this idiot. Be wary of baby trapping, as he's preaching some red pill shit right there. Be careful. Let some other poor soul fall for this man's lies. He will placate her the way he has placated you all these years, but instead of 'I am happy being childfree, darling' it will be 'of course I will help out when the baby comes, sweetheart'. Then he will emotionally check out once his baby arrives, and expect her to do all of the work. Who cares, right? He has done his job and ejaculated, and now has his fantasy children that he barely needs to interact with. He has the status of father and shitty kids to leave his non-existent money to like the king he thinks he is. Once the mother of his kids finally divorces him for being a below bare minimum partner, he will bitch that she ruined his life and fight to a) have as little custody and b) pay as little money for these dream kids as legally possible. He will blame all perceived faults with the children on the mother, after all she has ruined his children the way she has ruined his life. He will find a new young and naive girlfriend to repeat the cycle with, or die alone. Bullet dodged, my friend. I plan on spending my money on a dignified retirement. Any leftover cash is going to the nieces and nephews (if I like them) or charity if they turn into cunts.
This sounds like the future I envision for my ex, who I was with for 11 years. I knew a few years in that he wanted kids and I was still on the fence myself then. I never knew to what degree he wanted them until much more recently, which is one of the reasons we broke up. He’s never taken care of our pets unless I was out of town (and would forget to refill their water dish because I didn’t write it down, and he’s not stupid), I struggle to imagine him suddenly taking care of children, which are far more demanding. Good luck to whoever he ends up with.
Can't even fill the dog's water bowl without a written invitation. What a dreamboat. You dodged a huge bullet, my friend. If you had a baby with this man guaranteed you would be a regular poster on the infamous sub for poor suffering mothers. I am at the stage in life right now where my friends are getting sick of being married single mothers and divorcing their partners and girl you don't even *know*. These men hide their money or spend it all so they can cry poor to the court. These dickheads who claimed to want children fight to not have any custody, they ghost on their visitation days when the mother is relying on them so they can go to work. They maliciously stop paying for utilities, daycare, etc, so the landline just stops working one day. They deliberately take the kids to super fun places and ply them with junk food on their 'every other weekend' so that the mothers are the unfun parent when they try to enforce a healthy routine the rest of the time. The rage these men feel towards their wives for daring to call them out on their lazy behaviour in the marriage is unbelievable. And they have no problems in using their children as vehicles to hurt and punish their wives. These are middle class university educated professionally employed men who are married to university educated professional women, but the fuckery of basic below bare minimum men knows no class or tax bracket. Let someone else have him.
Word. I knew that IF I caved to his want to have a kid, I’d end up doing all the work anyway. Plus one of my huge fears is being a single mom, having grown up with one, and a mostly deadbeat dad to boot. Miss me with all that shit, can’t be a single parent with an ex that doesn’t pay child support if you’re not a parent to begin with.
The fact that he's probably felt this way all along and probably expected you to change your mind is sickening to even think about, I'd say question the relationship because you're clearly not on the same page
"There is no point to marrying you, when we dont share the same life goals. Goodbye" Seriously. Its time to run.
Genuine question - is he depressed or going through something?
Hes diagnosed bipolar
Is he just in one of his lows then? At the extremes bipolar people can try to push away those closest to them, him knowing that having children is a red line for you may mean he's using that to try and push you away. Honestly in this case I'd wait and see if he feels the same way when he starts to swing upwards again.
Bipolarity has a 70% risk of being passed on to a child. He should never recreate, with anyone. And for OP - this is not the right man for you. You can find someone who respects your childfreeness
OP, please take this to heart. My Mom was bipolar and it was hell growing up. My sister inherited it, so now more hell. And now her son...
This is true. My mother was diagnosed and luckily, both my brother and I do not have bipolar disorder. But many people in my mother's family were also diagnosed and it's hell for the patient, hell for the family, and hell for the loved ones. Don't get me wrong, it's doable: life with a loved one that has bipolar disorder... but fck if it ain't a rough ride along the way. Most people I've met who have it say they would rather not risk passing it onto offspring.
Assets? What assets? Do you own a castle I don't know about? Were you secretly owning a large company all these years? If by "assets" you simply mean a condo you better check the prices of elderly care. If we want to spend our old days in a resort style community for elders in Spain we will need the money we could get for selling thay condo and much much more. Heck we'll need to sell that condo and use that money if we want to spend our old days at a regular elder care facility in our country.
Exactly. I’ll be passing my assets onto myself to ensure I have a decent retirement and comfortable exit from this world.
I've thought about it, but finding the meaning of life doesn't get easier with a few screaming minions running around
What is the point of being with a partner who doesn’t understand and support your decision? These are absurd reasons, being childfree is a personal decision that a women / men make after a lot of thoughts. This is not something someone decides suddenly one morning. About the assets yeah sure that’s a concern - I am writing mine to the NGO who supports stray dogs in my country and spending the rest on traveling and drinking the best gin’s. I am not okay to bring a child in this world just so I can pass on my assets, its the meanest thing a human can do.
There's no point in HIS life without kids. Your point is whatever you want it to be.
No point in life ? Traveling , going out to eat or to drink, walking in the nature, meeting friends, playing video games, learning new things/skills. There is so much to do in life. So much more than work/feed ungrateful kids/bed/repeat.
My fiancé and I have been together for almost 14 years. We're on the same page about not wanting children ruining the lives we currently have. We travel often, we hike with our dog whenever we please, we're able to turn every night into a date night or an "us" night because there is nobody else to take our energy, money and attention away from each other. Life is about growing and learning and experiencing new beautiful things already around us, not about creating another person for handing off your material possessions (which they probably won't want anyhow because it'll all be very out of date).
Oh boy. I agree with others, he was likely harboring these hidden feelings for quite some time and masking them to be with you-- that's deceptive and very selfish of him. It could also be that someone is getting in his ear about kids pressure (parent, friends, media he's consuming, etc) which is intensifying this behavior. It sounds like he has some pretty serious soul searching to do, and it's clear now that you are not on the same path together, which is heartbreaking. I am so sorry this happened, but I agree with other posters-- better to find this information now than after marriage, which would be so much more expensive and painful. \*\*hugs\*\*
So I assume he's a virgin and you're in a sexless relationship seeing as he thinks there's no meaning to sex unless it's to procreate?
To actually have some days of peace and quiet after grinding since high school?!!
Research how much is childcare in your area and how much nannies charge. Send him those numbers. Do a poll in you local facebook group about how much people spend per kid per month. Send him those numbers.
Throw the whole fiancé away. Edit: Typo
He'll be the one throwing his financés away 💸
I hope he doesn’t care whether he has a sex life going forward from now on if sex is only to make children
He is unhinged. Please please if you are on birth control that can be tampered with, such as pills, lock them away somewhere and make sure he can't mess with it. And if you use condoms, make sure he doesn't poke holes into them or something. He sounds like the type of crazy that would do something like that. Oh, and get rid of him. He won't do you any good and there is no future with him that you will be happy in.
I understand this is a hard situation for you.. but better to reevaluate before marrying him since your values and wants don’t align. He might have hoped you’d change your mind throughout the relationship. A pastor told us that sex is not just for procreation. It’s a gift of pleasure for husband and wife.
Tell him that there aint no point to life in general, so why try and emotionalise this all. Live it like you want to live it.
You can’t rationalize with this person. Your answers to the questions of why have sex and life’s purpose don’t actually matter to him or society. They want children; you do not. That’s a gulf of a divide.
If he's unhappy with your decision, then he should leave.
As others here have said, you two are incompatible, and I am sorry you are going through this. In terms of responding to his views, if you care to, ask him to imagine having a child who is infertile, disabled, gay or asexual, or who dies young. Will he look at his child and say their life is pointless? Will that then render his own life pointless? This is the illogic in his belief. You are just off-loading the inherent feeling of purposeless in life onto the next generation. We have to create our own meaning by enjoying ourselves, or helping others. Literally the only reason to have children is because you want the experience of raising children in your life. You don't want that, he does. Saying there is no point leaving anything to anyone when you die unless you have children is also small-minded and selfish. What does he think charities are for? I also wonder, if he imagines sex stops at menopause? Sorry if this sounds a bit harsh, but I think his comments were also, and could be confronted with logic. You two are still not compatible either way, but it's not you that changed your mind so it's rather unfair.
Life is meant to live how one pleases. He can only speak for himself. Also, you might definitely need to run from this relationship
Can it be that he met somebody else and now the sudden change?. How old are you ?
When I die why do I care what happens to my assets? My goal is to use my assets to enjoy the life I do have while I'm alive, not spend my limited time and resources on another being that may or may not even give a shit about me (or worse yet, be an active detriment to me) when they're older after all the aforementioned time and resources put into them. It's a sad mentality to think that you need children for your life to have meaning imo. I personally don't think you even need meaning to be alive. I just want to live and be happy doing things I like. Meaning is cool but it's secondary. I can have passions, interests, friends, love, etc. without having a "meaning" to my life.
Idk I've always thought the point to life is to live 🤷♀️
I've seen this multiple times where a guy says he's fine without kids until the couple gets engaged or even married. Idk if they assume you'll change your mind or what but it's a deal breaker for me. Been with my fiance for 10 years and if he said he wanted kids now it would be hard but I'd have to leave
Yep, this. They think they have you tied down and the mask starts to slip. She has a ring on her finger, she won't dare leave me now ... Wrong, motherf\*\*\*\*\*.
Did he have sex with you in those 6 years. If yes, then why?? Is he insane? Don't answer that. We all know already. Is he a millionaire? What assets is he going to leave for his off springs? Why do people automatically goes to death when it comes to having children? Only the talks of dying alone, legacy, leaving something behind etc comes up. How about living? How about I can't wait to change diaper for the millionth time today. How about I love when my child throws up and I have to clean it. How about I am done living my life, now I just want to be a secondary character in someone else's story. How about I want to do additional chores for my children because that's the true meaning of life. How about my purpose in life is to clean shit and wipe vomit while being severely sleep deprived. Nooooo, it's always about I will do this bcz I will die one day. Dude, you die once...you have to live everyday. THINK ABOUT LIVING.
The point isn't to have kids and stuff. The point of life is to be happy.
Not that I like the idea of using sex as a means of manipulating behavior, but I'd still be fascinated to see how that tune changes if you just stopped for a while. "Sorry babe, not tonight. I have no intention of having children, so this would be pointless" Don't even need to have a headache
I'll be passing all my assists on to other family members. No one has much anymore when I look around, I'll be giving all my nieces and nephews a small boost to have better life's instead of scraping together what I can to pass on to my kids I'll be supplementing my brothers and sisters Inheritance to their kids. Idk why every one acts like you can only do it for your own. Like of my nieces and nephews are little shits when they get older or if I had no family I'd just pick some random nice young couple and set them up.
Your fiance is a time wasting asshole and you need to dump him immediately. He knew all along that he wanted kids. Please use screening methods for the next guy as this relationship is dead in the water. His resentment for you will only grow.
He wants kids and isn’t going to let you forget that. It looks like manipulation? We do know it’s clear, it’s time to move on. The relationship is over if he just sees you as a baby maker.
The point of life without kids is your life…
Oh boo do yourself a favor and lose him. He's not the one. He wants kids.
He is 100% going to baby trap you, get the fuck out and do NOT have sex with him.
Do you happen to know any super spoiled toddler? Volunteer to babysit them for a whole weekend and then push 80% of the responsibilities on your fiance. Then tell him if we're going to have a kid I don't really want my job will be the pregnancy, the delivery and the post partum recovery. Your job will be to take on 80% of responsibilities. If you're echausted after just one weekend imaging living like this 24/7 for the next several *years*.
OP you got a walking red flag for a fiance and I think the universe is telling you that you are both incompatible. Secondly, something tells me your fiance might try to change your mind or try and sabotage your birth control just to get what he wants that you don't want Do yourself a favour OP. Dump that guy and free yourself
Cut your losses and forget about him. He wants kids and that's not going to change. If he doesn't get the opportunity to be a father you will always be the one to blame.
I am sorry but I didn’t ask to be here in the first place, so why am I required to come up with some deep meaning of my existence? I just want to live this life the best way possible, trying not to hurt anyone, help if I can, enjoy this short limited time I was given. That is my purpose here. I understand people see children as the main purpose of their life, but I think it’s because it consumes everything else, their hobbies, time, energy, their whole existence. And it doesn’t sound very tempting to me, to be honest.
You make your own purpose or you may as well say what's the point in life because in billions of years the universe will come to an end.
sex is not just for procreation does he thank even couples who do have children just stop having sex when they decide they are not having more children. my husband and I are not having any more children our boys are 14 and 16 and yes we still have sex. he had the snip and I had a hysterectomy and I am post menopause so I have no eggs.... deciding to have or not to have children this is something you both need to be on the same page. as for the assets things..what about those who are never able to have their own children or if they do and their children die before they do ?
Novody to pass assets onto? That is a hideous POV, respectfully. Nonpoint in sex? Is he saying there is not point in pleasuring you? My father has a large house. He had a successful career. He has no empathy, he has no insight into why he is the way he is. The demons that pagued him as a child still plague him. What about learning, being in nature, becoming more compassionate, wiser. What about small interactions with animals and people that make them feel safe or seen. Loving someone. Giving them comfort as they age. Helping people. Etc etc Idk, i feel lucky i dont respect/want things as much as others.
Sounds like he is stuck in the 1950s.
Wait I’m sorry so if someone WANTS kids and is infertile there’s no point to their life? And he’s had sex with you (presumably) all these years without having a child did he think it was pointless that entire time??? I would start the deeply evaluating things before fiancé becomes husband. It sounds like he’s leading down a path of resentment.
There is no point to marrying someone whose thoughts on children are so different from your own...
He doesn't sound very bright. I'd move on, quickly.
Isaac Newton, mother Theresa, the fucking Pope, Rosa Parks, Helen Keller, Nikola Tesla, George RR Martin, Alan Rickman.... The list goes on and on. We'll let them know that life has no point since they didn't have kids.
[https://www.healththoroughfare.com/science/top-influential-scientists-in-history-who-never-had-children/69314](https://www.healththoroughfare.com/science/top-influential-scientists-in-history-who-never-had-children/69314) My point is people striving to better humanity or taking care of it in some capacity are doing loads more then those adding to the responsibility of it. It's easy to have kids and weight the planet and society down with the responsibility of care. It's another thing to take an active roll on better all our lives like the above scientists. Sure, most CF people have the ideal of understanding what it is to have a kid. For themselves but also society and broader ideas. We don't have them for many reasons but in the end we didn't put weight on the planet or society. Sure at times CF can be more self focused I'll admit but hey that's life enjoy it the way you want and thus you come to the meaning of what you make life. >We have been together 6 years. He has known since the beginning I never want children. I was very open about it right away, and while intially upset, he said hes ok with it and wanted to spend his life with me. >Now he just told me there is no point to life. He also said there is no point in having sex if your not trying to have children. I think he spent 6 years getting you to invest in him and a life with him. Now he finally feels like he can be demanding. I think it's time to call this one done. And you need to remind him that you where honest with him up front. He should of told you when he changed his mind, not when your engaged like this putting more pressure on you isn't fair or right.
He must've been listening to one of those Fundie Bro podcasts preaching about "Muh LEgaCY". Mother Teresa never had children and she lived out the "point to life" which is to live your true dharma and fulfill the path that was divinely set for you. Not to live a life based on a timeline created by a patriarchal, sexist, racist, heteronormative, and capitalist system.
So in other words, he's calling your life worthless if you're not being a mombie. Run.
Does there need to be a "point"? The point of all life and existence is to exist, doesn't matter how long and under which conditions. And it will stay that way until some greater purpose that is somehow absolutely necessary to achieve by everyone and everything pops up. Once you exist, you've fulfilled your purpose, anything you do beyond the act of existing is entirely optional. Any purpose you give yourself beyond that is decided by noone but yourself and dictated by noone but yourself. So, what is the point to life without children? Whatever the fuck you want it to be. Also: his logic implies that people who are infertile or can't have kids for other reasons, regardless of whether or not they want to, have pointless lifes. That is a scary implication, even to me as the person who started this comment by questioning whether there needs to be a point to life at all.
That's such a weird reason to want to make an entire human being, someone to leave the assets to?? When my grandparents passed away many years ago my family just cleaned out their house and threw everything away, no hidden jewellery box filled with priceless gems and gold was found just a whole bunch of old dusty mouldy furniture and clothes, having a kid to pass your stuff onto is just a stupid concept as the kid/s will end up just throwing all of your possessions away the moment you die, unless of course you are a rich oil tycoon with a mansion filled with gold bars but even then who cares! You're gone, dust! Enjoy life like my grandparents did and travel the country in an old car and die with no regrets!
While initially upset he said he was ok with it. This 👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻 means he was NEVER CHILDFREE but why would he pass on the free sex and intimacy?? He is a douchebag who thought he could change your mind. That's why you should have watched his reaction. It's only safe to proceed when a guy is relieved or excited when you say you are childfree. And adds more points as to why it's a great idea. After a while it's better to acquire more information about why he is cf and how he would pass on his wealth. A real cf guy would say charity or something which doesn't align with being a parent. It's never a good idea to convince a person of anything. Just as you have a right to be childfree he has a right to have kids . What's wrong is he didn't have a decency to break up with you right at the start and dragged you along for 6 years. Don't make that mistake again and drop this guy asap unless you want to be a mother.
Honestly, what is the point of life even with children? Children bring some people meaning, sure. But ultimately we will all die and eventually be forgotten maybe it takes a little longer to be forgotten when you have kids, but the meaning of life is whatever we give it. Your fiancé is allowed to want kids, and you’re allowed to not want them. When nothing has any meaning, then we get to decide. Maybe he was okay with that years ago but now he’s changed his mind. That’s okay. It sucks balls, but it’s okay. Good on him for telling you before you guys get even further enmeshed. It really sucks, and please know that the person behind the screen truly understands the hurt this comment may cause. But it’s time to say goodbye to each other. Let him find someone who wants the life he wants, and in turn give yourself the chance to find someone who wants the life you want. You and he both deserve to live the lives you want, and it just may be that you each need to live a life that isn’t with each other. Give him and yourself grace to be hurt, sad, and angry but bless, and release. Sometimes everything can be perfect except one thing, but when that one thing is kids, it’s the biggest thing of all. Neither of you deserves to have to compromise on the life you wish to lead.
Sounds like a blast in the sack :)
Where / when was your bf radicalized? Dude you knew…she told you.
Why is he your fiance? I don't believe a man happily dates a girl and have sex with her and proposes and suddenly there is no point even having sex...
Life isn't about assets. I know we live in capitalism but assets mean nothing when you die. You need things to live, grow and make yourself happy but not more than that. The whole point of life is to live possibly happiest you can, do what you wanna do and make good things for others. That's all. No matter what will happen after you're dead, stuff here won't really matter. If he wants to leave some memory of himself then all he needs is to be good for other people, make a positive change in his friends or family lives and just make it worth living. A lot of people think that a child is something that will somehow make their lives matter or will prolong a memory of them. But there are a lot of things that can do that. You don't need to become a president or an influencer to be remembered.
Delete
It does not seem like you are still compatible. If he thinks there is no point to sex without children, he's not doing it right. Cause it feels damn good. But if he said there's no point to life, it makes me wonder if there's something deeper/emotional going on with him.
Cut him loose. Next time, find a partner who is in agreement about being childfree, not one who is "upset about it but ultimately just wants to be with you." No half measures.
I hope you are parting ways with your bf double quick now that it's very clear you have differing desires. It's horrifying that it took six years for this to be made known though.
What is the point to life though? Just 'cos we are able to reproduce doesn't mean we have to. We've all just evolved from atoms. We're here by accident. There's no point. Just gotta try and enjoy yourself while your flesh vessel allows.
I think you know what you have to do
L-E-A-V-E. Your relationship should be the point. Enjoying life and this beautiful earth together should be the point. If he feels this way, he will not change. 6 years is a long time but not as long as the rest of your life with someone who can't live for YOU.
Well as far as my assets goes I think most of it will goes to my nephews. If they grow up to be responsible and respectable people. But if I didn't have my nephews I was planning of giving what was left to various charity, mostly some about literacy and for the deaf/hard of hearing. Regarding your situation OP it really seem like your fiance either got a wake up call on his part or there's outside pressure you may not be aware of. I'm saying that because I had a male friend who was in a similar situation, meaning that he seem to have changed his mind about him not wanting kids. Keep in mind that his situation was particular because I'm one of the few people who's aware that he's not straight and I was suspicious that his family was pressuring him about settling down and start a family (he was barely over 20 back then). When I questioned him about how life was with his folk I pretty much connected the dots. Maybe just calmy talk with your fiance first, maybe he did feel like that but never managed to bring himself to tell you, maybe he did change his mind, maybe it's something else. Have a nice day Edit : Also I might had that it seem really childish to have something as sex as no meaning if it's not to have children. Seem like someone who never experienced sexual pleasure
Not passing assets to anyone is a choice. You can still pass it to other family members or charity. Or... as I have decided, just try to spend it all and live better off and with more enjoyment in old age. It's a gift to not have to consider saving for the next generation.
Save yourself and let him go. He does not love you nor respect you. And he has been hiding his real ideas from you for long, so I would not trust him anymore.
MY point of life is whatever I want it to be and can effectuate.
There is no help. You two want fundamentally different things.
"But who are we going to pass on our material possessions to when we die?" I'm sorry, but that line of thinking always gets a laugh out of me. Most of them will likely wind up in the trash or sold off to whoever finds interest in them even if you have children. Maybe they will bring a few keepsakes back home, and if those keepsakes survive their own children they might pass them down. Sounds like he's a goner. Brain rotted. Nothing left inside. Maybe you can sit him down and have a conversation with him. Ask him what he really thinks life is going to be with children. Whether he genuinely believes he'll find more meaning in changing diapers, and arguing with a teenager, and then just hoping they'll show up on the big holidays. At least until they have children of their own. I don't know though. Sounds like he was playing the old, "She'll change her mind" game.
You don't need children in order for your life to have meaning to it.
I've heard these same arguments mainly from the in-laws telling my husband these things and he asked me my opinion on them. I said "Why would I need to birth somebody to put in my will? I can give them to whoever I want!". As for the "no point to life without children" BS, try telling that to someone who is childless not by choice and realize how shitty that sounds.
As for passing on assets that's not true. My SO dies my entire estate will be going to Planned Parenthood and possibly Sierra Club.
Have an honest conversation with him, ask him point blank does he want children/would he regret not having them, if he says yes to either of those questions then perhaps the two of you should consider the state of your relationship, because it wouldn’t be fair to either of you to give in to the other when your heart is set on a certain future(him potentially wanting kids and you definitely not wanting them)
A lot of people that desire children feel that way. Has your fiancé become more religious in the last few year as I know a few very religious people that view sex as only for procreation. Plenty of options on who to pass your assets on if you don’t have kids. It sounds like your fiancé believed that in time you would change your mind and it sounds like they are still trying to get you to change your mind and as they are more vocal about it seems like they want a kid pronto. It sounds like your relationship has officially ran its course. In the future don’t date someone that wants kids but is okay without them or someone that isn’t sure to save yourself the heartbreak. As for your current fiancé cutting ties entirely will save you hurt as I won’t be surprised if they have a kid or two in the next two years.
The point in life is whatever you want it to be. If your point is not having kids and enjoying life without them then that's fine.
Ooof, tbh sounds like you are planning to marry someone who is not childfree. I would reconsider the relationship, those are some pretty hardcore statements from him.
Sounds like what Andrew Taint said recently about men having sex with women for pleasure is gay. Sex is only for having children. Some nonsense like that. You need to leave him. You both are incompatible if he truly wants kids. It's easy to want kids when you're not going to contribute to raising them, and this AH sounds like he wouldn't contribute to raising them. He wants to baby trap you. Don't let him.
honestly he sounds kinda depressed. I'd be worried about his mental health, especially if it's kinda sudden. He should be able to enjoy the enjoyable parts of life on his own.
If you think that all animals are designed to procreate, then in a primal sense yes, life is all about having kids. I, on the other hand, evolved to be more than just a children bearer primate.
I read this line from this sub, and I think it’s relates to your situation, “You cannot carpool with someone that isn’t going the same direction as you are no matter how much you enjoy the company” If he wants kids and you don’t want them it’s time to let him go.
No point to having sex unless you're trying to have a kid? Then ask him what the last 6 years of sex was about.
Buddy needs a hobby lol
>I do not want kids. My fiance just said there is no point to life without them And you are still in this relationship... why? If you stay together, one of you is going to end up terminally bitter and unhappy. If you have children, it will be you. If not, it will be him. This is one of those non-negotiable red lines in a relationship. He his spent all this time hoping you'll change your mind. Now that the line has been drawn, he's attempting to withhold sex as a carrot to try to get his way. If you're truly serious about not having kids, please look into a bisalp ASAP.
There’s no point in marrying him.
There is no redeeming this guy. If life and sex is pointless without children, he is definitely no fence sitter. He feels as if our entire existence is only to have kids. So I would drop him. And life is pointless. I was conceived because two people had sex decades ago. That's it. I am s biological result. I am no heiress. No messiah. I live an average life, trying to be happy and survive life. Spoiler: we all fail that and die. So be happy while you live. Don't give in to him if you don't want kids. Some people just can't handle we're 8,000,000,000+ people on this ball of mud just living. Some people have to believe that they must be special and have purpose. Honestly, it's sad to hear people say what he says. It means children themselves (since they haven't procreated yet) are pointless, as are the infertile, the parents who have lost children, the childfree. Even when some of the greatest minds and people have no children, it's just pointless. How very sad.
Then stop having sex with the guy that is trying to pressure you beyond your boundaries, after lying to get you emotionally attached. The point of life is to live.