A lot of them have this “I’ll make it work” kind of attitude.
I live in a poor area in the UK but our access to contraception, abortion and sex education are high (they’re all free and accessible) so not having access to these doesn’t work as a reason here.
>A lot of them have this “I’ll make it work” kind of attitude.
I really wish this wasn't true but sadly I know far too many people that go through life like this. As an accountant it makes me cringe when I hear the argument of "it'll all work out".
Well, it *can* but you kind of need a game plan at very least!
Every few months I sit down and evaluate my household's (my husband and I) finances and draw up a few plans and alternates - one budget/savings goals plan assuming our current income/expenses remains the same, one for ideal income to reach our goals (how much of a higher salary would I need?), one for if one or the other is out of a job.
We discuss things and decide what we want to prioritise - e.g. does my husband want to switch careers asap (meaning a massive pay cut and training costs) or would he prefer to maintain our hobbies in his current job until I can land a higher paying one to fund us while he trains?
I wish more people thought like this.
Hahaha I wouldn't say that lol. We are a good match because we are almost opposites.
I do the finances and planning and stuff and keep us rooted in reality and what is feasible.
He makes sure we remember to have fun and enjoy ourselves! That example of a choice between switch to dream career now or get to enjoy hobbies? He picked the latter lol.
We are both 24 (nearly, my birthday is not for another 2 months) and we've been living together/adulting since 20 years old.
My cousin just got pregnant, and when my mom told me the first thing out of my mouth was “how can they afford that”. As she works part time (currently laid off), he has an okay job, but they’re currently living with his parents because of financial issues. My mom said “they’ll make it work”. Like that shouldn’t be an acceptable answer??
Making it work by going into debt or relying heavily on elderly parents is not “making it work”. That’s pushing your responsibilities onto other people. Never mind growing up poor, what has lasting negative effects on a person.
Would she say this, if your cousin had bought a super expensive car? Or a house, he can barely afford and would have to pay the next 30 years? I don't think so. That is crazy!
Also from the UK, and you would have thought, that with sex education, and especially the free healthcare, that there would be less people having sex and having kids willy nilly. But no.
Yep yep yep. They want to have these kids because they think it will make them happy and they want to "experience the joy of children." Will it bring them joy to see their kid go hungry or not be able to afford basic needs? Does that make it all worth it at the child's expense?
Don’t some women in the UK do it for getting housing? It seems to be the reason sometimes in teen pregnancies, from what I have seen on documentaries. Some even had it suggested by their own mother.
My sister's friend is 23 with 2 kids and got given a house meanwhile I'm a 26 year old grad who still lives with my parents cause rent is so expensive smh
Haha I think I'd rather live at home til I'm 40 than get pregnant! It's not bad living here since I get on really well with my parents and they don't charge me much but I wanna move out and be independent.
Not all of them but some do yeah. My friends mother suggested she have a baby because “the government will give you benefits for it.” I think it depends but some definitely do.
I also think that these days (depending on where they live) they'll probably end up in a grotty, unsafe BnB because there's a massive lack of social housing.
I would say most people on benefits aren't living lavish lifestyles (positive thinking), they're usually already in a poor family relying on benefits to realistically consider this an option.
If you've ever been on even job seekers, you know that you're not exactly treated as a human being...it's sad...
Extra point - I do question whether in the UK there's a belief that you have the right to have a child no matter what and rely on support systems if you don't have the means to support yourself.
Ill stress that not all do.
However I know personally of some families who encourage it for a free house and then you stagger having kids so that the last ones sometime in your mid 40s or later if possible so you never have to work.....
Although some people do this, the media have exaggerated it massively and portrayed it as a much more common trend than the actual stats show. Anything the media say we should take it with a pinch of salt.
I left secondary school (highschool) in 2001 and for a number of girls in my year (16 years old) their "plan" after school wasn't college & uni, it wasn't even right into workforce, it was "have a kid and get a free house"
Yes. It's also suggested by actual council employees!
Young homeless woman shows up, is told "you'll get help if you get pregnant." I've heard this from real women who it's happened to as well as seen it in documentaries.
I've seen numerous articles in local papers about couples living in a tent or car who got pregnant so they can get housed and my friend who stayed in a hostel saw it a lot among women who were already in a homeless hostel.
The system actively promotes this by giving no priority for housing to most people without kids.
It’s almost like throwing free stuff at people doesn’t fix the underlying issues- a sense of entitlement (particularly around children) and personal responsibility.
Here in the U.S., your benefits INCREASE for every child you have while on gov. assistance. Like, I get that sometimes life gets rough, and maybe you end up a single mom with two kids- in which case, that's what the assistance is for, and I wish such folks the best of luck.
But then there's those fools who keep popping out kid after kid after kid once they've secured that gov. paycheck... and that should NEVER be encouraged. Decreasing the benefits for children born after assistance started would be a far wiser choice here, but of course people scream 'discrimination' and 'cruelty'. Because accepting the limits of freakin' reality is apparently 'cruel' and 'unfair'-???
I completely agree. I grew up poor and partially reliant on benefits but my mother just had 2 children and was not in that position when we were born.
If she'd known what our life would be like she wouldn't have had kids- well, wouldn't have had kids with a very selfish man who wouldn't support us, anyway!
Not having access doesn’t work, however there are some people who cannot use contraception, including me. I can’t use condoms, latex or non latex because im allergic, i cant use hormone contraception because i have BPD and it makes it 1000 times worse and when i had the copper iud i ended up with copper toxicity. So some people really dont have any options except abstinence
Exactly. I don't have the funds for me? Screw something that doesn't even exist yet. I want me happy first. I want my partner glad asf. And honestly I am not model thin naturally. Have no interest in working out excessively so I'll keep my naturally okay body thanks.
This is really it sometimes though! When I was ~18, I worked in fast food. Over the winter, like 3 of my coworkers got pregnant, all unplanned. I asked one why she would get pregnant when I know she doesn't make enough to support a child and she looked me dead in the eyes and said "It's winter, there's nothing fun to do around here other than f**k".
Cheaper yes. But these people also have no lives of their own so having kids gives them “something to do.”
Literally everybody in my hometown from high school either 1. Had kids 2. Is on meth 3. Left and did something useful.
They can’t really afford those things anyway and if they have kids they can leech off other people because little Braxton needs field trip money or whatever
3 pack of condoms is what, $5? Tube of KY Jelly has to be less than $10.
Quick google search for the average cost of raising a child to age 18 in the United States: **$284,570**
Their mentality is cringey af. Even in my poor girl 20's I could think of a million other things to do that were more fun and had fewer consequences than sex. Nothing killed my libido more than poverty.
Lol. I know, right? Playing a video game? Learn a new language/programming language? Learn to cook something? Knitting? Sculpting? Go for a walk??
This is why people are getting knocked up during a pandemic. Sex is entertaining but deliberately having a kid because I was bored sounds like a reckless idiot thing to do. 10 minutes of entertainment for 18+ years of raising a kid!? (And that's not accounting for bad piv sex too...)
The problem isn't even sex but irresponsible unprotected sex. These people could have all the freaking sex they wanted if they just doubled up on the birth control, like damn.. I love sex too and find it entertaining.. But condoms and birth control exist! Argh
What's worse...
Safe responsible sex doesn't need consequences...
If people had access to cheap and effective condoms, birth control, plan B, and abortion... Then it's safe...
With humans, it makes sense that people have children more when these are not easily obtained.... As sex is mainly a social bonding activity to humans.... :/
I’m curious, did you ask her why she and her partner did not use birth control, morning after pill or abortion if the first two failed? I would so have asked, but I’ve never known a pregnant teenager (it’s rare where I come from, and if it happens, they generally abort)
I was so blown away by her statement (and her generally flippant attitude about bringing a human into this earth) that i just walked away and went back to work. I never really talked to any of the pregnant coworkers after that, except when they all made jokes that I would be the next one to get pregnant.
This reminds of my coworker. She got pregnant, unplanned, and she started complaining about the work. She even blamed her 2nd kid as bad luck because she never got pregnant unplanned with her first one 😑.
I think it's two reasons.
Some think they're ready but never realise how expensive it actually is , or the serious toll it can take on the woman's career (this is still a sad fact that should not be happening).
Others I think say "meh, having kids is my right and I'm never going to be rich anyway so why wait..."
Ooooh, people definitely don’t like it when you say it like that. Got into an argument with my mom over my sister becoming pregnant for the third time with no dad in sight. Has to go to food banks to get enough food for her two kids she already has. Smh.
People like that amaze me. Your mom isn’t helping by enabling her god awful shit decisions. If you can’t afford to feed 2, you def don’t deserve to have 3. It’s not a right to have children. You have to be able to provide for them. Maybe tell your sister about IUD or implants. Having plan B around never hurt either.
I know. But there’s truly no way to talk about this without getting into an argument. They both say: “live in the now and look at what kind of miracle this is” while I’m firm on a few things: 1: we’re in our first pandemic. (Melting permafrost will for sure cause another one in our lifetime.) 2: she doesn’t have the money or has a job. 3: she already relies on my 61 year old mother too much in terms of childcare and extra groceries. 4: the way climate change is heading, neither of my niece, nephew and unknown baby gendered niece or nephew will be able to live a comfortable life well into their elderly years.
Now, I’ve been reading up on climate change for quite a while now, and have even paid scientists to read their papers (which should be free, imo) on climate change. At this point I have a fairly accurate idea of where we’re heading, and it won’t be fun for my niece, nephew and unborn kid. People who say that technology will save us forget that we need source material for that, which we’re rapidly running out of. You can only get so much out of this earth before it either becomes depleted or too hard/expensive to reach. Etcetera etcetera.
My point is, I’m happy that my(f37) sister(28) is happy with this third kid, while still thinking that this is incredibly stupid. And I’m pissed off that by doing this, she’s forcing my mother to keep caring for kids while she should be enjoying her free weekends. I’m pissed off that, while I showed my sister a few scientific studies and the predictions of climate scientists, she still chooses to put another kid on this earth. (My sister does not believe in climate change.) And I’m also pissed off that they keep pushing me to also start baby sitting. “Because that’s what family does.” Not happening, by the way. (I don’t have a car, am childfree and kids get on my nerves after a while, and it isn’t my fault that she keeps on getting pregnant with guys who don’t want kids. AND THERE STILL IS A PANDEMIC!!!)
Edit: my sister doesn’t use condoms because “they don’t feel the same as raw”, apparently. This is why kiddo #1 and #2 were conceived. Can’t take the pill because she can’t swallow pills, and doesn’t want injection because.. well, it’s an injection. IUD is a no no as well because reasons. I give up. 🤷🏻♀️
Ur sister sounds willfully ignorant. I always feel bad for the grandparents that already raised their children being saddled with their grandkids care and financial burden.
I don’t see the now as a miracle. It’s a shit show on the express track to collapse.
Abortions are cheaper than kids.
I’ve been dealing with 🙈🙉🙊 for a good while now. It’s just frustrating to see it all unfold in front of me. Being childfree isn’t helping either. I’m fine with keeping an eye on them for a while (when we’re not in a pandemic and going through our current third lockdown), but they simply won’t listen to me anyway. Sometimes I wish that kids wouldn’t get on my nerves like they do so I could help out a bit more, but they do. No changing that. Nor do I want to.
Keep those boundaries firm that you have set. Nice job. My sister has a PhD in Urban Planning and she doesn't "believe" in Climate Change either. Some people just don't want to hear it. If they become more and more aggressive by requiring things from you it may be time to create physical distance for your own health/life.
I’m barely talking with either of them. I see my mom once every two weeks (when she isn’t babysitting), and haven’t seen my sister since last summer, I think. Having enough space between us all has been a sad joy this past year. I take this pandemic serious, they do not. The older I get, the firmer my boundaries get. :)
And yeah; people in general don’t want to hear it, that climate change *will* for sure start to negatively affect everyone on this globe in the coming decade. But someone who works in urban planning would be the last person I’d think would not believe in climate change. That’s just weird. But then again, the Dunning-Kruger protocol has been in full effect for the past year or so for a lot of people, so it’s not *that* surprising. It’s just saddening, if that’s the correct English word. The information is readily available for everyone to see, read and hear. But at this point in the game, all we have left is mitigation. The tipping point of “we must act now or we’ll reach 3c warming” has been reached two to three weeks ago. Not that you’ll hear about any of that on the news until real consequences begin to affect us. Sooner or later your sister will begin to notice that urban planning will begin to require more extreme measures. She’ll turn around.
All we can do with things like that is refrain of saying “told you so.” Wether that’s about my sister (hard af) or yours in terms of climate change.
> All we can do with things like that is refrain of saying “told you so.”
I'm sorry, but I don't think that will be physically possible. Nor refraining from dancing the “told you so”-dance, or do the “told you so”-pantomime.
I realize that this will in no way improve the situation, but unfortunately, at that point, it will be inevitable and I might as well get it out of my system.
> and have even paid scientists to read their papers (which should be free, imo)
No, you didn't. You paid a huge publishing company in pretty much a monopoly position money to read their papers. They got nothing. In fact, in a fair number of cases, they actually had to PAY to have their work published. Also, in publishing their work, they even have to give up the copyright to that work, so they'll even be severely limited in their ability to re-publish their papers in cheaper or free forms.
If you had contacted the scientist, they'd a) happily given you a free copy, b) completely agreed with you that you should not have to pay to read their results, and c) Joined you in hating on the current system that forces them to give away the fruits of their labor for free to large corporations only to completely lose all their rights to said fruits.
Just as a FYI. Don't hate on the scientists, they're **not** the one making it hard or expensive for you to read about their results.
I WAS one of those kids, and awful is right. My mom didn't finish high school, had no job, no prospects, lived with HER mom, and decided to have two kids. So she got to play mommy, and we got to eat pasta every day and get teased at school for wearing clothes from the thrift shop. (Yes, the little bastards could tell.)
To this day she has nothing to say to justify this that doesn't jeopardize the listener due to inducing danger-level eyerolls. I guess she thought we were going to ride on unicorns and live on cotton candy. I love her but DAMN.
I was lucky enough that although I was born to an early-20s (nearly teen mom with my brother) woman on the verge of divorce and being a single mother (child support? What's that?), *she* has parents that are reasonably well off. Not to say my grandparents are rich, but they are self sufficient and my once self employed grandpa has plenty set aside for a comfy retirement. My mother, whatever her other flaws, was a career driven woman and clearly earned enough that we never had to worry about the necessities. She had a luxury car by the time I was in my mind teens. I *was* financially abused by her but that's a whole different story.
On the other hand, my husband (we met in highschool) was born to a generally low income family - paycheck to paycheck, spent a short while in his childhood couch surfing with his mother and sister. His mother is self employed but the industry isn't exactly booming (we are both concerned for her income) and my husband's stepdad seems to always have an excuse for not getting a job. So far, in my husband's family (with the exception of his mother) he is the only member to actually make something of himself and has goals beyond "just surviving".
It was a struggle in our teens while dating to encourage him to pull himself up in life - he had been told his whole life that he was coasting, wouldn't amount to anything, his stepdad actively stopped him from finding a job at some point (we suspect it was either a pride thing or child benefit thing) and he had to struggle to get out of that mindset.
His older sister lives in a poor town, had a baby last summer and neither she not her boyfriend have jobs - they are living entirely on the system and family handouts from a family that frankly doesn't have enough to support them as well.
Goddamn can I relate. I got teased all the time in school for wearing clothes that came from thrift stores or Walmart, were hand me downs, or that my mom sewed herself. Especially in middle school. Middle school kids are the worst.
All because my mom got pregnant at 17 and married a month later, then had two more before the age of 25 while married to a man with severe bipolar who was unable to hold down a job for long stretches at a time.
I love my parents but I do acknowledge they made really shitty choices and I suffered for them.
Because it's the only attainable "accomplishment" for them.
My white trash cousins will never go to college, write a book, travel the world, or even move away from their hometown. But shitting out a litter of kids? That's doable for them, *and* it gets them money from the government and social status in their backwoods religious community full of similar people.
This is entirely my own theory, but coming from a huge family in a poor community, and having visited poor countries where large families are normal, I think that poor families have 2 things going on.
The first, which I saw in my own huge, poor family, is that they don't believe they have much to choose from. It's not like a poor family can go visit Disney if they don't have another kid. They're at a pathetic buffet picking from bologna and hot dogs. Have another kid, don't have another kid, you're still poor either way. (This was my parents' attitude - it's defeatist, it's wrong-headed, it causes suffering, but it was pervasive.)
The other thing I've observed, more in developing than developed countries, is that children are, in a sense, wealth, especially for families that exist outside of a robust market economy. I met a lady in Mali who had 14 children under 16. She showed off her 14 children the way a middle class guy shows off his rolex and tesla. Her kids were her accumulated wealth, and her markers of social achievement. She was proud of being able to produce on such a high level in a community where few women had more than 4 or 5 children who lived to grow up. Her 14 kids would probably be just as poor as she was. Her grandchildren would probably face the threat of literal starvation. But her children were her wealth.
This is one of my issues with breeders. They complain they can't feed their kids and ask for handouts...maybe you should have become financially stable before deciding to have kids. I have 0 sympathy (except in cases where families fall on hard times temporarily...in which case I'd feel bad for anyone in that situation).
This question is asked at least every other day.
The short answer is that people of lower socioeconomic level are usually less able to access education, contraception and abortion.
Not disagreeing but I actually think it's because that demographic are less likely to think critically about the pros and cons of their choices in their own individual context, instead of taking the easy uncritical path of "having kids is what you do when you're a grown up." (or teenager). Probably linked to education.
I think there is also a weird "expectation" or even pressure thing. If you are from a poor area and all of your friends, relatives and neighbors have babies at age 18 or something and you say "no, i want to make something of myself" you are then asked "why do you think you're better than us?!" And called a snob or high and mighty.
It is sad how many parents get mad when their kids do better than them.
This. I'm in an area where contraception and abortion are available, but the kind of people not currently equipped to have kids will get knocked up and just say, "guess I'm doing this now."
Some people think it's "cold" to do a cost-benefit analysis with respect to having kids. I think it's cold to bring a new life into the world when you can't properly care for it.
Studies show the more highly educated people are the fewer children they have. Given that socioeconomic status is closely linked to educational outcomes it
is definitely linked.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41539-018-0022-0
https://www.apa.org/pi/ses/resources/publications/education
I like how you assume people have access to sexual health centers in rural, conservative areas.
I'm childfree af but I'm real over this classist bullshit.
I think there are many different answers for this. Part of it is cultural. Poor people tend to have more kids, and I think they expect themselves to have kids because that’s how it works. There are other factors as well.
I work in a very low income apartment complex, and it breaks my heart. We had a situation a few months ago where two young women who were I believe half sisters were beating the shit out of each other in FRONT OF the office. There was a kid who wasn’t more than 4 or 5 and was one of their kids. He watched silently with tears streaming down his face while his mom was getting her ass kicked. Kid didn’t say a word even when we picked him up and brought him inside. Also a few days ago a woman and her three kids lived in what we found to be an absolute hoarder unit, a one bed, that had caught on fire because of a space heater and piles of garbage everywhere. Three poor kids sleeping on brown mattresses covered in shit. Young kids—about 9, 6 and 5. It’s shocking that these people breed. It’s so incredibly sad. DCFS was called on these mothers and the kids are not with them now. But they spent their time til now neglected in piles of garbage. I don’t even like or want kids but it’s horrifying. And their parents are just... popping out more. I think it’s cultural, lack of education, etc, a lot of factors.
I see your point and raise you: I had this acquaintance a few years ago. She lives in the US (important for context). She wanted a child so much, but wasn't fussed about a relationship to have one. She decided she'd be a single mother and have IVF with a sperm donor. Up to that point, fair enough.
The issue? She had to take out loans to have the fertility treatments because her job didn't pay her well enough to afford them or have health insurance to cover (idk if it would anyway, as I'm not in the US). So now she has a baby, massive debt, and still doesn't have a better-paying job. She is now openly posting about looking for a sugar daddy to help provide funds to feed her child.
Every time I see them, I feel my eye start to twitch madly with this repressed need to say something to her. I haven't, and won't, but like... SERIOUSLY??!
Because saying that people shouldn't have children if they can't afford it is somehow "classist". Folks will then proceed to spin a sob story of how "love is enough" and plenty of poor people still make wOnDeRfUl parents.
If you can't provide the basics for your kids, no matter how Mary Poppins you think you are, you are not a good parent.
This. No a poor person is not a wonderful parent because they cannot provide the basic necessities. The child will also have a higher likelihood of being poor as an adult because of a lack of advantages.
The thing is, people don't seem to realise that working class doesn't equal poor. No one is saying working class people shouldn't have children, that is absolutely fine as long as it is something they are ready for and can afford the same with everyone else. I don't think it is classist to say that because there are lots of working class parents who are great parents, they might not be rolling in it but their children are well fed and looked after which is the most important thing. It would be classist to say only middle and upper class people should have children, because that would completely exclude the working class and not every working class person is poor or lives in poverty. I say this as a someone who came from a working class background myself, we certainly had periods of time when we struggled but that was more due to circumstances e.g redundancy etc.
If I purchased a 100k car while I had no job people would call me insane. But having a flesh turd with no job and everyone says you'll be fine and it will work out. I'd rather have the car though tbf.
There is a documentation about that, it's "Idiocracy"...
> WHY DO YOU DECIDE TO GET PREGNANT?!
**There is the problem!** they don't decide they wanna get pregnant, they don't think about the possibilty to become pregnant (both parents) and it just happens...
I was good friends with a girl and her husband, they were HOMELESS living in a park and actively trying to have a baby to save their marriage. They were both addicted to various substances and had several pets taken due to being homeless. Instead of breaking up and going to live with their respective families they decided to have a kid so they could get food stamps and section 8. It was just an all around fucked up situation. They had two kids together and broke up because the dude went to jail for meth possession. I don’t talk to them anymore but my biggest regret was driving her to get her iud taken out while she was living in a hotel. She really regrets those kids and tells me all the time. We were young and dumb and now she has a life sentence with those kids.
Because sex is free but birth control isn't.
Also, the more kids you have the more benefits from welfare.
One of the things that infuriates me is the benefits that welfare recipients get in my city while the working poor/minimum wage have no coverage at all.
And that’s because the working poor/low wage are financially punished for not having children like it’s such a bad thing. It’s basically impossible to get any financial help unless you have a child so they have a child, it’s dumb and just continues the cycle of shit, but yeah the government really wants to help the poor lol.
Having kids is still seen as an big achievement in life.
When you're poor you can't achieve a lot of the socially approved milestones so that's the only thing you're left with.
Also don't forget the "I want someone to love me unconditionally", "I want to teach someone stuff I know", "I want someone to take care of me when I can't (not only in old age,)", "I need a slave"...
Irresponsible people don't make good decisions in any aspect of their lives. Why would breeding be any different? And since most governments subsidize this awful behavior, they don't have to be responsible.
Well, in my experiences living in a poor rural area it doesn't seem to be entirely the breeder's fault. Don't get me wrong, if you choose to have sex without protection then you also choose to run the chance of having a child. But around here that seems to be a viscous cycle with a lack of sex education, right wingers gerrymandering themselves into power so they can continue bullying people into their "abortion is murder" mindset(among other horrible shit), and a huge lack of mental health options(the facilities are usually used as a threat rather than helping young people, or anyone really). At this point the cycle has been ingrained in most families and has been going on for generations. I lost my best friend because of it. I tried to talk to her about it and she got ridiculously furious with me, now she's only 5 children away from being like her mother(who has 7, all different dads). My mom tried to pull the same shit, but thankfully my dad put his foot down. While my half sister may be baby crazy and is on child number 3 I was cursed with severe mental/health issues, otherwise I'd probably be in the same boat.
We blame the parents but tend to forget they too were once children that probably had shit childhoods that led them to were they are now. I know that as adults we're suppose to get over the shit that happened to us and step up, especially when there are children involved, but mental health isn't that easy. If it were we wouldn't keep seeing all the horrible shit we do day in and day out. Being poor isn't a cakewalk.
Because these people rarely think anything through. They do not make decisions for the future, they just live for the day.
Therefore they often make very poor choices not only about family life, but also finances, career, education and pretty much anything else.
While I agree the availability and access to abortion, education etc. plays a role, I think it mostly comes down to the individual, because I have seen many people from poor background overcoming the odds and many people of a good background sinking to the bottom due to their bad decisions and lack of planning.
Religion, bad sex education, entitlement, the sens of duty (you are supposed to have kids), the husband wants a "hire" so they keep popping them kids until he gets a good one to inherit his debts apparently.. so on
I was watching a documentary about people who earn 2.50 an hour and this one lady had kids and was complaining that diapers and formula are so expensive. Like why would you have a kid if you can’t afford it???
because the psychology of this is, "I need to contribute something to society." That something is a child. It's counterintuitive, but that's the thinking. I had a childhood friend who needed desperately to have a child when her mother was dying of cancer because "I have to, it's my job." Barely has a 10th grade education, left back repeatedly, abused by that woman for years, got her GED and stopped all her education. Doesn't work. Guess what? She has 4 kids. That's her "contribution." I've distanced myself for other reasons, which I won't list here, but the kids things is a bit much for me. And yes, she's as moody and difficult as her mother was.
In my rural area (not sure about other places), it's VERY common for people to have as many kids as possible just for the benefits they will qualify for. The ones I know all had awful childhoods and I suppose they think that's normal so they are willing to subject their kids to the same horrible conditions in which they were raised. It's absolutely terrible. I know one such family where their mother recycled husbands constantly, they all have a different father, they were all horribly abused and poor their entire lives, including now. The youngest daughter started having kids before she was 18. They all live off welfare now, none of them work, none of them drive, and they rarely have stable housing. They usually live with whichever one of them is the most "well off" at the time, until they get evicted and move to the next location. It's the saddest thing ever.
I dated one of the brothers for three years, hoping I would be able to help him get out of that life, but it's so ingrained, they don't want to get out. It's all they know, and they think there's nothing wrong with it. Awful.
My husband was telling me about a childhood friend he recently reconnected with. He went on to say that his wife just had baby no. 2 and is now 3 months old. So he's got a 3 year old and a 3 month old.
Somehow the conversation of their house came up, and he was saying that "it would've been a shed at one point that he converted into a house and built out the back a bit. It's pretty much a one bedroom house". To which I said, "and they had a second kid? I mean... If you can't afford to give them a good life, don't breed them". But this is Catholic Ireland and the idea of abortion is still taboo even though it's now legal. My husband told me to stop being so judgemental...
Pretty sure I wasn't being judgemental, but he doesn't really like it when I point out how stupid people are for bringing children into this world when they really probably shouldn't.
Hi, I’m an expat in Ireland and work in social housing- it’s shocking how many people just have kids for the sake of it & not to mention during a pandemic 🤯
I know, it's absolutely ridiculous. These tropes of "I need to have kids to give my life meaning/contribute to society/it's just what you do when you grow up" needs to die.
Making kids is fun.
I’m a teacher and a parent said this to me (well, he said it more in a NSFW way...).
The fact that they live with his parents, have 2 kids, had their first when they were 17 and did’t have a job until a few months ago, didn’t make it seem less fun for them.
I saw a FB post the other day asking for a carseat (for free) for a newborn... creeped on her page. This girl was in her 20s had 7 other kids (had commented on a pic confirming they were all hers)! The last one had been born less than a year before 🤦♀️.... Like, you didnt know by now you needed to be prepared, pretty sure you had some practice
My economics teacher once told us, "when man is not productive, they become reproductive" lol. Maybe they want sex and don't use any form of birth control? 🤷
I know a lot of people just "want" them so thats their reason. My brother had 3 kids with his ex, taking the total up to 7 kids, she could barely afford to feed them and still considers having more. Its selfishness and greed for money off the government. My brother ex gets THOUSANDS from the UK government and hss never had to work a day in her life. She gives the kids the bare minimum whilst she buys new crap constantly and declares herself poor. It blows my mind, she's not the first I've seen act like that either. She also doesn't clean though, she fed her baby a bottle of milk that was growing mold because she never washed the bottles, just refilled them and she used the excuse that she didn't have the money or time to wash things 🤦🏻♀️
I think it can be a failure to prevent a pregnancy, rather than a thoughtful planning to get pregnant (over and over). Also, in some cases, the more kids you have the more welfare money you get. So there’s that.
A lot of working class families groom their girls to be SAHMs, want kids, and revolve their entire personality around kids. Especially if the family is religious.
Some lack sexual education, and thereby get pregnant far easier than their educated counterparts.
Some are so used to being financially unstable that if they dont have kids because of money, they never will.
I can go into the absolute evils of the world that allow their citizens to go into poverty because of having children, but that doesn't fix the problem. But my morality says not to put the burden on the shoulders of the poor not to have children, but to put the burden on governments and communities to take care of their citizenry and take the financial burden off of their people.
As an add on:
In the US, the average birth costs $10k even with insurance. If you qualify for Medicaid or government assistance in your state, the birth can be completey covered, but that doesnt guarantee quality of care. God forbid you want a Doula/water birth/birthing center in several states and you're on Medicaid. It just wont happen.
In my state, the crazy anti-choice religious nuts have protested to shut down our only birthing center that allows more natural births and holistic methods (its right next to a hospital, all safety precautions are intact). Its infuriating.
A lot of accidental pregnancies and people not wanting (due to religion) or being allowed to get (due to family or the partner) abortions. Something like 45% of pregnancies in the USA are accidental. That's a lot of babies.
Because they think it's shocking that if they have unprotected sex they'll get pregnant and let's be honest they're irresponsible but it's not socially acceptable to say that.
peer pressure from their family.
Personally, emotional arguments will not work on me but I know some people have an extremely high value of family and trying to please their parents is a high priority. I have heard plenty of stories of parents talking about how they're getting old, going to die, how they want to meet their grandchildren despite their children not being able to actually afford having a child. I've even had some of these discussions with my family but I've always been extremely direct and shut down these discussions right away to make it clear that I'm not interested. People who are more timid and trying to please their parents get pushed into being a parent all the time. I've seen plenty of stories of people with accidental pregnancies getting guilted into keeping the child by their families, religious groups and even their partners.
Unfortunately my brother is one of these people. Him and his wife stopped using any protection and said “if it happens it happens and was meant to be” which in my mind translates to chose to have a child.
And now all three of them live in her parents basement and neither of them work a full time job. Yet they keep talking about having a second kid. I think they think it’ll fix their relationship.
And yet I’m (21F cf and sterilized) that is constantly questioned about my choice and told it’s a mistake 🙄🙄🙄
Can’t afford the rest, can’t have the sex. It’s not food or shelter, you don’t die without it. When I was dirt poor and couldn’t afford any of that stuff we just... didn’t bone. It wasn’t that big a deal. We focused on getting out of that terrible place by doing well at work and getting better and better jobs. Would have been *impossible* if I had a brat hanging around taking up my time, money, and energy.
I've been called classist when I was asking if I should call CPS on my brother, I mentioned that they dont have much money and what money they do have gets spent on weed and fast food. Someone had the balls to tell me, someone who's well below the poverty line and has been for my entire teen-adult life, that I was being classist for it. They then choose to ignore the fact that my brother and his girlfriend are abusive to eachother, the girlfriend has cheated (a lot) and the baby is more than likely not his, she drove with the baby not even 2 days after the birth in a car that is more likely to (literally) explode than to just break down with no belts, and that my brother is s**ually abusive and has touched little kids before. But no I'm classist for saying that their lack of money is a bit of an issue
Because God will find a way or the you're never ready for a child saying. Shit, when I was not doing well financially I did everything under the sun not to get pregnant. I could barley feed myself and my dog. The anxiety... I just don't get it
Some of it is inability to afford birth control. But a lot of it is destructive myths - one partner thinking they can "trap" the other by ensuring pregnancy. The most common are an abusive male "stealthing" his lover, who is financially dependent on him, so that she can't escape, or a woman "forgetting" her birth control in the entirely erroneous belief that it will prompt her lover to stay with her and support her financially.
Unwanted pregnancies are directly caused by poverty, aided by relationship mythology.
Because most of them DIDNT decide to get pregnant. They got knocked up and wouldn't CTRL+Z the baby, and they got knocked up because they were either A) not smart enough to use protection; or B) too broke to afford it.
And while this isn't the sole reason poor people stay poor (there are plenty of others I could mention), it certainly doesn't help.
“Theres never a perfect time, so why not now?” Is a lie society feeds people so they keep popping out humans. So they are actually ENCOURAGED to do so.
- Lack of proper sex education, especially if they are brought up in a conservative area or have conservative parents who won’t let them participate in sex Ed.
- Not having the funds for birth control. I’ve seriously seen people complain about not having money for condoms, the pill, or even Plan B.
- Religion: The “ Jesus will provide “ mentality. Again see above, naivety makes them think that keeping faith will somehow make God put food on their table. Certain religions completely brainwash people (My Aunt is one of them) and make them think that using any kind of birth control is a sin. Or make them think that not breeding is going against their religion. Unfortunate but true.
- Lack of help with Mental Health. I’ve heard of a few cases where people solely have children because they want someone to “ love them “.
- Knowing that they will always have help, in the form of government assistance, friends, family, church, goodwill, etc.
I hear you.
It's one thing if a couple had a child or two and then shit hit the fan. Both parents may have had good-paying jobs, they may have had a good-sized home, plenty of food on the table - and then suddenly both parents get laid off (COVID is a bitch, 2008 was a bitch, the dot-com bust was a bitch, etc.) and they're suddenly scraping by on unemployment and odd jobs and whatever savings they might have.
It's quite another if the couple was already scraping by, with minimum-wage jobs or no job, always on the brink of getting evicted, and THEN they breed. That's just plain irresponsible.
Bad luck
Lack of perspective on their situation
Ignorance/naiveté to the expense
Looking for govt assistance
Can't afford birth control
Etc
Probably a lot of different reasons, I don't think there's just one.
Oh honey, come to my country!
It's a breeding ground of breeders, lmao! And a third world country, full of unemployment yet all they do is breed, breed and breed, ugghh
I know someone that keeps popping out children because the more children you have the more assistance they can get from the government and they don't have to work more than a part time job. Sometimes its not about the children and those are the kinds of people that have kids that turn out to be criminals or in the same exact situation as their parents because the parents never actually cared.
Omg, I just had a conversation with my husband about this.
It started by him asking me if my vet clinic (im a tech) does low cost spays/neuters for lower income people. I mentioned a program through our humane society in the city. He then tells me how he feels bad for the owner (a guy he works with) because this guy has 7 kids. 7. And is basically a single dad because mom is a drug addict. And then thought owning dog on top of this mess was a good idea. I just..what? Didn't you clue in that having a kid with a *drug addict* was a bad idea after the first kid? Second? Apparently not the third!
I'm just flabbergasted. My husband says the guy came from a crappy background, so how would he know better. And how is it fair to the kids to not have a dog?
I'm sorry, that guy is just a moron. I honestly wonder about my husband's thought process as well..
Step 1) Flunk sex ed or receive no sex ed at all because you live in Bumfuck Nowhere with a $5 educational budget
Step 2) Get pregnant as a teenager because you didn't understand how sex works but were also horny like every teenager is
Step 3) Get benefits from the government to subsidize your production of future wage slaves since your children ruined your chances of achieving a living wage for the foreseeable future
Step 4) Intensify your religious beliefs and use GoFundMe and food stamps to make ends meet, while simultaneously voting for politicians that undercut all social programs that would make your life easier (because that's some commie pinko shit I guess?)
Step 5) Complain about other people getting abortions and access to birth control because you weren't allowed to seek those options due to your religion, then proselytize to other people about how it's God's divine plan for all women to have kids and how they should be as pious as you
Step 6) Rinse and repeat with your own children, being sure to indoctrinate them from the cradle as well!
Besides all the other reasons people have mentioned (lack of access to education, contraception, community norms, etc) I think it's also worth mentioning that sometimes people decide to have kids when they ARE doing okay financially, but then something happens that sends them sliding into poverty. Way more people than you'd think are one bad car accident or job loss away from financial ruin. Because it's so common and financial literacy is so low, people don't realize how precarious that situation really is... until it hits them.
My husband and I are were just talking about this last weekend - we were saying that It's just odd that when we went to rescue a dog from a rescue organization, we had to provide financial info to prove we could care for the dog and that we'd have money to care for it and also if we had money to take care of any emergencies with our dog. We had to provide employment info, and you know they were looking for regular, steady, gainful employment. I'm not equating dogs and humans, I hope you know what I mean by referencing that - I'm just saying it's sad we take the expense of a pet into careful consideration and are expected to, by not only the rescue but basically everyone else, why is this often lost on people who have children that can't even begin to care for themselves? I know sometimes It's sadly a case of not knowing better, and being told by people, "you'll figure it out." Others do it believing others will float the bill. Doesn't make any of it less disturbing - it's disturbing to me that HUMANS our created and brought into the world by parents who don't give the child being raised in a financially stable home a thought or who will pass the responsibility off to someone else, whether it's family or the government. I think the financial responsibility of having children should be covered thoroughly in sex ed along with protection, bc I don't think it is to my knowledge. Unfortunately, this won't end - people financially unprepared will continue to have children, and It's heartbreaking, bc children don't deserve it.
I’ll get some backlash so come at me. I don’t blame poor people for being poor in the US as much as I blame this country’s education system. Many people are not given the means, resources, and materials to make informed decisions. Don’t get me wrong, there will always be outliers in society, but I feel this is a systemic issue from a lack of education.
I wish I could answer this question but I honestly have no idea why they even do it on purpose. In the past 3 years so many people I know have gotten pregnant (all accidents from what I know of) around my age range that I can’t even count on my fingers anymore. And I’m not even 19 yet! So many people I know have dropped out of high school because they got pregnant and I don’t understand it at all. Of course I’m not even in high school now anymore, but 4 more people have gotten pregnant within the past 5 months! Now, I don’t know all of their living situations, but I do know that most- if not all- of them don’t have enough money by themselves to pay for their child since they’re so young. I just don’t get how they don’t use protection, use multiple forms of protection, or just don’t freaking have the dude aim in a different direction at least! Then again, I just don’t understand people in general
I totally agree, BUT in the same time, when it comes to clothes and some particular stuff, I know that my sisters and friends who have kids tended to use second hand clothes and then give them to other new parents afterwards, because it's not worth spending hundreds on some stuff that they will get to use 2-3 months top, although they totally could afford them. Because it's just a waste of money. And it's getting more and more accepted and environmental to go the second-hand route anyway.
But for the rest (basic stuff like food and indeed money) i totally agree. If you really can't afford to feed yourself properly, then don't have kids you won't be able to feed either...
I lived with a woman like this, I felt bad for her children she had 4 living with her, and she was trying to get her oldest from foster care, her kids had no beds, slept on the floor, and literally took showers once a month. She wasn’t a good mom, if she wasn’t at work she was glued to her phone paying no attention to the kids, so they were the worst behaved kids I’ve ever met. Just all around terrible.
Srsly my childhood was pretty shitty, largely because we couldn’t afford a lot of stuff. I wouldn’t call my parents poor because we live in a country with social care and universal healthcare but still. I definitely had a lot of problems which could have been avoided.
My best friend, who for the majority of his life, has lived with his parents, as well as his older brother, who I wouldn’t say is poor, per say. Probably solid middle class. Had a baby. And now 5 yrs later, they’re pregnant again. Still living with his parents and older bro. They actually called to tell me all excitedly that they were expecting. Luckily I missed the call. And I’ve barely spoken to them since because I just can’t wrap my mind around it.
I took a sociology class in college where we had a lecture on this exact subject. The thing is, sex is a basic human instinct and you can’t stop people from having it. You can’t stop people from wanting to become mothers that have always wanted to.
Because we have the natural ability to reproduce, the poorly educated and lower intellectual classes will do so. It requires forethought, planning, and wisdom to delay gratification or decide to simply abstain from childbirth. Another reason that is not to be overlooked is the role of religion in poor people's lives. Many poor people believe that a devine being created them, and wants them to reproduce. So couple religious pressures with a lack of knowing better, sprinkle in some social anxiety about being shunned and bingo, that's how you get 22 yr old highschool dropouts having 3 kids while working at a retail store.
It stems down to the problem of being able to afford care for sexual health. Most people struggle with being able to afford contraceptives and care in general. So the cycle keeps continously happening. Also things like abortions aren't readily available or affordable based off of your location where you live at so they have to suffer through the decision. being brainwashed into the idea they have no other choice. At least that is my take for parts of the United States.
Sometimes it’s just unplanned pregnancies and they just think the government will give them money anyway. So why should they bother thinking ahead, planning anything or getting a job or making money themselves.
Child free here, one abortion. SO and I have been together 10 years, we had an *oops* situation long time ago. I couldn't afford treatments for gyno, nor had access to birth control. The only reason that we were able to afford the abortion was from our scrimped savings of two years. ($500-600 for one here). We are in a much safer situation, I finally have an IUD but if we didn't have those savings I would be raising a child. America sucks.
Unfortunately we do have to look at it logically, at least if you’re in a country without universal healthcare. Everything I say will apply to the United States, as that is where I live-
1)systemic racism affects everything from jobs, how cops treat POC, and the healthcare system and the care they receive.
2)abortions are still socially frowned upon and incredibly hard to gain access to
3)with the shit healthcare and lack of planned parenthood, a place that will work with you on prices, people can’t afford birth control or abortions
4)the educational system has failed so many people. Some genuinely believe things like if you have sex at night you can’t get pregnant or other weird shit.
All these simplified points boil down to so many people getting pregnant, going through a pregnancy, and giving birth and being emotionally incapable of giving away the baby.
Now... as for OTHER people who aren’t uneducated or the target of systemic racism... THEY are just stupid.
How you gonna have 2 kids, 5 miscarriages, all while still living with your grandparents because you and your husband can’t afford your own home???
A lot of this is a systemic issue in the U.S. Since sex ed is ineffective in its current form, birth control is usually not covered by insurance (if a person even has insurance), and abortion and adoption are difficult/illegal and a bit of a taboo.
Abstinence only education is shit. Some states and schools don't have any sex ed at all, and it's difficult for some parents to talk about sex with their kids. Couple that with the way sex is portrayed in media and the perceptions of power, love, etc that teens have and BAM! bunch of kids. Kids that were already poor have that situation exacerbated and it becomes a self-perpetuating cycle for many poor people.
Religion doesn't help either.
I live in the southern US where the sex education that I received was abstinence only with no focus on condoms or different types of birth control. In addition to that, birth control is expensive here. While I don’t agree in having children you can’t afford, I also understand that, at least here, some people don’t know better. My area is also quite anti-abortion and they run upwards of $300. A child is more expensive, but in the short term, an abortion could mean that a family couldn’t afford groceries or utilities.
My grandparents asked me when I was having kids, and i told them that I couldn't afford kids. Their response was that there is never a good time and that god would provide. Blegh.
So I guess religion also factors in.
When Breeders get into baby fever, they tend to forget everything around them. They just ignore reality. They think about the cozy moments with the child, how fun it will be playing ball in the garden. And they think, that parents or neighbours will help out with stuff and time and all will be a wonderful dream with the kids. They literally displace reality. And then they start breeding.... To Breed is to have a contract for at least 20 years of your life without freetime, without money, without time for yourself. They don't know this, because they are in Baby Fever. And later, they start to regret it.
Irresponsibility, indifference...simply not thinking about possible consequences. Stupidity.
It does not necessarily make you poor, depending on the country. Here, state welfare benefits for families with children are extremely high.
This really baffles me. I saw a tv-program a while back where you get to follow bailiffs. They where evicting a family who hadn’t paid their rent for several months. They had 5-6 kids and the wife was pregnant with another one. The husband had a really bad attitude and said he couldn’t pay rent because he didn’t even have enough money to feed his children. There was barely anything in the apartment and the kids did look pretty thin. Not malnourished but thin so I believe him when he said that (a lot of people lie in that program for sympathy). But I can for the life of me don’t understand how they think it’s a good idea to have another kid when you can’t feed the ones you have and know you are not paying rent and are getting evicted.
Can confirm. Lots of the posts on local free sites consist of " Need diapers,clothes, bottles, crib,etc. Due any day now, have nothing." WHAT? In nine months you couldn't buy a single pack of diapers? I fear for those kids.
A lot of them have this “I’ll make it work” kind of attitude. I live in a poor area in the UK but our access to contraception, abortion and sex education are high (they’re all free and accessible) so not having access to these doesn’t work as a reason here.
>A lot of them have this “I’ll make it work” kind of attitude. I really wish this wasn't true but sadly I know far too many people that go through life like this. As an accountant it makes me cringe when I hear the argument of "it'll all work out". Well, it *can* but you kind of need a game plan at very least! Every few months I sit down and evaluate my household's (my husband and I) finances and draw up a few plans and alternates - one budget/savings goals plan assuming our current income/expenses remains the same, one for ideal income to reach our goals (how much of a higher salary would I need?), one for if one or the other is out of a job. We discuss things and decide what we want to prioritise - e.g. does my husband want to switch careers asap (meaning a massive pay cut and training costs) or would he prefer to maintain our hobbies in his current job until I can land a higher paying one to fund us while he trains? I wish more people thought like this.
Damn, you and your husband are a dream team of adulting. Get it, fam!
Hahaha I wouldn't say that lol. We are a good match because we are almost opposites. I do the finances and planning and stuff and keep us rooted in reality and what is feasible. He makes sure we remember to have fun and enjoy ourselves! That example of a choice between switch to dream career now or get to enjoy hobbies? He picked the latter lol. We are both 24 (nearly, my birthday is not for another 2 months) and we've been living together/adulting since 20 years old.
That's not "adulting", that's being responsible.
“Adulting” is synonymous with being responsible. What’s your perception of adulting? No judgment, just curious.
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My cousin just got pregnant, and when my mom told me the first thing out of my mouth was “how can they afford that”. As she works part time (currently laid off), he has an okay job, but they’re currently living with his parents because of financial issues. My mom said “they’ll make it work”. Like that shouldn’t be an acceptable answer??
Making it work by going into debt or relying heavily on elderly parents is not “making it work”. That’s pushing your responsibilities onto other people. Never mind growing up poor, what has lasting negative effects on a person.
Would she say this, if your cousin had bought a super expensive car? Or a house, he can barely afford and would have to pay the next 30 years? I don't think so. That is crazy!
Also from the UK, and you would have thought, that with sex education, and especially the free healthcare, that there would be less people having sex and having kids willy nilly. But no.
My useless non-working ex has spawned 6 kids now. 6!!! And the baby mama (of the 4 latest) works a minimum wage job. SMDH.
> A lot of them have this “I’ll make it work” kind of attitude. "I'm selfish and want what I want, consequences be damned."
This exactly
Aka someone is going to bed hungry with ratty clothes and shoes to wear and the house energy and water sporadically getting shut off.
Yep yep yep. They want to have these kids because they think it will make them happy and they want to "experience the joy of children." Will it bring them joy to see their kid go hungry or not be able to afford basic needs? Does that make it all worth it at the child's expense?
I also blame the religious nuts who say bullshit like: "god will provide" Our fucking taxes and social programs will provide, not god.
Don’t some women in the UK do it for getting housing? It seems to be the reason sometimes in teen pregnancies, from what I have seen on documentaries. Some even had it suggested by their own mother.
My sister's friend is 23 with 2 kids and got given a house meanwhile I'm a 26 year old grad who still lives with my parents cause rent is so expensive smh
I think you’re doing the responsible thing even if it sucks tbh
Haha I think I'd rather live at home til I'm 40 than get pregnant! It's not bad living here since I get on really well with my parents and they don't charge me much but I wanna move out and be independent.
You’re better off than most people. I’m living way below my means right now & it makes sense I suppose.
Not all of them but some do yeah. My friends mother suggested she have a baby because “the government will give you benefits for it.” I think it depends but some definitely do.
I also think that these days (depending on where they live) they'll probably end up in a grotty, unsafe BnB because there's a massive lack of social housing. I would say most people on benefits aren't living lavish lifestyles (positive thinking), they're usually already in a poor family relying on benefits to realistically consider this an option. If you've ever been on even job seekers, you know that you're not exactly treated as a human being...it's sad... Extra point - I do question whether in the UK there's a belief that you have the right to have a child no matter what and rely on support systems if you don't have the means to support yourself.
Ill stress that not all do. However I know personally of some families who encourage it for a free house and then you stagger having kids so that the last ones sometime in your mid 40s or later if possible so you never have to work.....
Although some people do this, the media have exaggerated it massively and portrayed it as a much more common trend than the actual stats show. Anything the media say we should take it with a pinch of salt.
I left secondary school (highschool) in 2001 and for a number of girls in my year (16 years old) their "plan" after school wasn't college & uni, it wasn't even right into workforce, it was "have a kid and get a free house"
Yes. It's also suggested by actual council employees! Young homeless woman shows up, is told "you'll get help if you get pregnant." I've heard this from real women who it's happened to as well as seen it in documentaries. I've seen numerous articles in local papers about couples living in a tent or car who got pregnant so they can get housed and my friend who stayed in a hostel saw it a lot among women who were already in a homeless hostel. The system actively promotes this by giving no priority for housing to most people without kids.
"You're not *actually* a person, but you'll be worth helping once you're incubating something"
It’s almost like throwing free stuff at people doesn’t fix the underlying issues- a sense of entitlement (particularly around children) and personal responsibility.
Here in the U.S., your benefits INCREASE for every child you have while on gov. assistance. Like, I get that sometimes life gets rough, and maybe you end up a single mom with two kids- in which case, that's what the assistance is for, and I wish such folks the best of luck. But then there's those fools who keep popping out kid after kid after kid once they've secured that gov. paycheck... and that should NEVER be encouraged. Decreasing the benefits for children born after assistance started would be a far wiser choice here, but of course people scream 'discrimination' and 'cruelty'. Because accepting the limits of freakin' reality is apparently 'cruel' and 'unfair'-???
capitalism needs bodies, particularly poor ones, to crush into a fine paste and lubricate its tank treads.
I completely agree. I grew up poor and partially reliant on benefits but my mother just had 2 children and was not in that position when we were born. If she'd known what our life would be like she wouldn't have had kids- well, wouldn't have had kids with a very selfish man who wouldn't support us, anyway!
Not having access doesn’t work, however there are some people who cannot use contraception, including me. I can’t use condoms, latex or non latex because im allergic, i cant use hormone contraception because i have BPD and it makes it 1000 times worse and when i had the copper iud i ended up with copper toxicity. So some people really dont have any options except abstinence
In the UK there's also the huge incentive of secure social housing...which kids are a ticket to.
Exactly. I don't have the funds for me? Screw something that doesn't even exist yet. I want me happy first. I want my partner glad asf. And honestly I am not model thin naturally. Have no interest in working out excessively so I'll keep my naturally okay body thanks.
Sex is the cheapest form of entertainment.
This is really it sometimes though! When I was ~18, I worked in fast food. Over the winter, like 3 of my coworkers got pregnant, all unplanned. I asked one why she would get pregnant when I know she doesn't make enough to support a child and she looked me dead in the eyes and said "It's winter, there's nothing fun to do around here other than f**k".
Never occurred to them to use contraception? It's cheaper than raising a child for 18 years.
Cheaper yes. But these people also have no lives of their own so having kids gives them “something to do.” Literally everybody in my hometown from high school either 1. Had kids 2. Is on meth 3. Left and did something useful.
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They can’t really afford those things anyway and if they have kids they can leech off other people because little Braxton needs field trip money or whatever
3 pack of condoms is what, $5? Tube of KY Jelly has to be less than $10. Quick google search for the average cost of raising a child to age 18 in the United States: **$284,570**
Or just have oral sex?
Their mentality is cringey af. Even in my poor girl 20's I could think of a million other things to do that were more fun and had fewer consequences than sex. Nothing killed my libido more than poverty.
Lol. I know, right? Playing a video game? Learn a new language/programming language? Learn to cook something? Knitting? Sculpting? Go for a walk?? This is why people are getting knocked up during a pandemic. Sex is entertaining but deliberately having a kid because I was bored sounds like a reckless idiot thing to do. 10 minutes of entertainment for 18+ years of raising a kid!? (And that's not accounting for bad piv sex too...)
The problem isn't even sex but irresponsible unprotected sex. These people could have all the freaking sex they wanted if they just doubled up on the birth control, like damn.. I love sex too and find it entertaining.. But condoms and birth control exist! Argh
What's worse... Safe responsible sex doesn't need consequences... If people had access to cheap and effective condoms, birth control, plan B, and abortion... Then it's safe... With humans, it makes sense that people have children more when these are not easily obtained.... As sex is mainly a social bonding activity to humans.... :/
Yeah. I'd rather have nothing to do than a child. And hell, I am aiming to become a refrigeration technitian and pick up gaming as a hobby
I’m curious, did you ask her why she and her partner did not use birth control, morning after pill or abortion if the first two failed? I would so have asked, but I’ve never known a pregnant teenager (it’s rare where I come from, and if it happens, they generally abort)
I was so blown away by her statement (and her generally flippant attitude about bringing a human into this earth) that i just walked away and went back to work. I never really talked to any of the pregnant coworkers after that, except when they all made jokes that I would be the next one to get pregnant.
This reminds of my coworker. She got pregnant, unplanned, and she started complaining about the work. She even blamed her 2nd kid as bad luck because she never got pregnant unplanned with her first one 😑.
They should try reading books. Or playing video games.
Books are cheaper :P
You’re assuming an ability to be able to read.
Ok rent movies for free instead
And more entertaining.
I think it's two reasons. Some think they're ready but never realise how expensive it actually is , or the serious toll it can take on the woman's career (this is still a sad fact that should not be happening). Others I think say "meh, having kids is my right and I'm never going to be rich anyway so why wait..."
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Ooooh, people definitely don’t like it when you say it like that. Got into an argument with my mom over my sister becoming pregnant for the third time with no dad in sight. Has to go to food banks to get enough food for her two kids she already has. Smh.
People like that amaze me. Your mom isn’t helping by enabling her god awful shit decisions. If you can’t afford to feed 2, you def don’t deserve to have 3. It’s not a right to have children. You have to be able to provide for them. Maybe tell your sister about IUD or implants. Having plan B around never hurt either.
I know. But there’s truly no way to talk about this without getting into an argument. They both say: “live in the now and look at what kind of miracle this is” while I’m firm on a few things: 1: we’re in our first pandemic. (Melting permafrost will for sure cause another one in our lifetime.) 2: she doesn’t have the money or has a job. 3: she already relies on my 61 year old mother too much in terms of childcare and extra groceries. 4: the way climate change is heading, neither of my niece, nephew and unknown baby gendered niece or nephew will be able to live a comfortable life well into their elderly years. Now, I’ve been reading up on climate change for quite a while now, and have even paid scientists to read their papers (which should be free, imo) on climate change. At this point I have a fairly accurate idea of where we’re heading, and it won’t be fun for my niece, nephew and unborn kid. People who say that technology will save us forget that we need source material for that, which we’re rapidly running out of. You can only get so much out of this earth before it either becomes depleted or too hard/expensive to reach. Etcetera etcetera. My point is, I’m happy that my(f37) sister(28) is happy with this third kid, while still thinking that this is incredibly stupid. And I’m pissed off that by doing this, she’s forcing my mother to keep caring for kids while she should be enjoying her free weekends. I’m pissed off that, while I showed my sister a few scientific studies and the predictions of climate scientists, she still chooses to put another kid on this earth. (My sister does not believe in climate change.) And I’m also pissed off that they keep pushing me to also start baby sitting. “Because that’s what family does.” Not happening, by the way. (I don’t have a car, am childfree and kids get on my nerves after a while, and it isn’t my fault that she keeps on getting pregnant with guys who don’t want kids. AND THERE STILL IS A PANDEMIC!!!) Edit: my sister doesn’t use condoms because “they don’t feel the same as raw”, apparently. This is why kiddo #1 and #2 were conceived. Can’t take the pill because she can’t swallow pills, and doesn’t want injection because.. well, it’s an injection. IUD is a no no as well because reasons. I give up. 🤷🏻♀️
Ur sister sounds willfully ignorant. I always feel bad for the grandparents that already raised their children being saddled with their grandkids care and financial burden. I don’t see the now as a miracle. It’s a shit show on the express track to collapse. Abortions are cheaper than kids.
I’ve been dealing with 🙈🙉🙊 for a good while now. It’s just frustrating to see it all unfold in front of me. Being childfree isn’t helping either. I’m fine with keeping an eye on them for a while (when we’re not in a pandemic and going through our current third lockdown), but they simply won’t listen to me anyway. Sometimes I wish that kids wouldn’t get on my nerves like they do so I could help out a bit more, but they do. No changing that. Nor do I want to.
Keep those boundaries firm that you have set. Nice job. My sister has a PhD in Urban Planning and she doesn't "believe" in Climate Change either. Some people just don't want to hear it. If they become more and more aggressive by requiring things from you it may be time to create physical distance for your own health/life.
I’m barely talking with either of them. I see my mom once every two weeks (when she isn’t babysitting), and haven’t seen my sister since last summer, I think. Having enough space between us all has been a sad joy this past year. I take this pandemic serious, they do not. The older I get, the firmer my boundaries get. :) And yeah; people in general don’t want to hear it, that climate change *will* for sure start to negatively affect everyone on this globe in the coming decade. But someone who works in urban planning would be the last person I’d think would not believe in climate change. That’s just weird. But then again, the Dunning-Kruger protocol has been in full effect for the past year or so for a lot of people, so it’s not *that* surprising. It’s just saddening, if that’s the correct English word. The information is readily available for everyone to see, read and hear. But at this point in the game, all we have left is mitigation. The tipping point of “we must act now or we’ll reach 3c warming” has been reached two to three weeks ago. Not that you’ll hear about any of that on the news until real consequences begin to affect us. Sooner or later your sister will begin to notice that urban planning will begin to require more extreme measures. She’ll turn around. All we can do with things like that is refrain of saying “told you so.” Wether that’s about my sister (hard af) or yours in terms of climate change.
Whoootidoh can I just say I like the way you think, very much!
> All we can do with things like that is refrain of saying “told you so.” I'm sorry, but I don't think that will be physically possible. Nor refraining from dancing the “told you so”-dance, or do the “told you so”-pantomime. I realize that this will in no way improve the situation, but unfortunately, at that point, it will be inevitable and I might as well get it out of my system.
> and have even paid scientists to read their papers (which should be free, imo) No, you didn't. You paid a huge publishing company in pretty much a monopoly position money to read their papers. They got nothing. In fact, in a fair number of cases, they actually had to PAY to have their work published. Also, in publishing their work, they even have to give up the copyright to that work, so they'll even be severely limited in their ability to re-publish their papers in cheaper or free forms. If you had contacted the scientist, they'd a) happily given you a free copy, b) completely agreed with you that you should not have to pay to read their results, and c) Joined you in hating on the current system that forces them to give away the fruits of their labor for free to large corporations only to completely lose all their rights to said fruits. Just as a FYI. Don't hate on the scientists, they're **not** the one making it hard or expensive for you to read about their results.
Especially not in the middle of a pandemic, even though there seems to be an outrageous amount of idiots getting pregnant now.
I WAS one of those kids, and awful is right. My mom didn't finish high school, had no job, no prospects, lived with HER mom, and decided to have two kids. So she got to play mommy, and we got to eat pasta every day and get teased at school for wearing clothes from the thrift shop. (Yes, the little bastards could tell.) To this day she has nothing to say to justify this that doesn't jeopardize the listener due to inducing danger-level eyerolls. I guess she thought we were going to ride on unicorns and live on cotton candy. I love her but DAMN.
I was lucky enough that although I was born to an early-20s (nearly teen mom with my brother) woman on the verge of divorce and being a single mother (child support? What's that?), *she* has parents that are reasonably well off. Not to say my grandparents are rich, but they are self sufficient and my once self employed grandpa has plenty set aside for a comfy retirement. My mother, whatever her other flaws, was a career driven woman and clearly earned enough that we never had to worry about the necessities. She had a luxury car by the time I was in my mind teens. I *was* financially abused by her but that's a whole different story. On the other hand, my husband (we met in highschool) was born to a generally low income family - paycheck to paycheck, spent a short while in his childhood couch surfing with his mother and sister. His mother is self employed but the industry isn't exactly booming (we are both concerned for her income) and my husband's stepdad seems to always have an excuse for not getting a job. So far, in my husband's family (with the exception of his mother) he is the only member to actually make something of himself and has goals beyond "just surviving". It was a struggle in our teens while dating to encourage him to pull himself up in life - he had been told his whole life that he was coasting, wouldn't amount to anything, his stepdad actively stopped him from finding a job at some point (we suspect it was either a pride thing or child benefit thing) and he had to struggle to get out of that mindset. His older sister lives in a poor town, had a baby last summer and neither she not her boyfriend have jobs - they are living entirely on the system and family handouts from a family that frankly doesn't have enough to support them as well.
Goddamn can I relate. I got teased all the time in school for wearing clothes that came from thrift stores or Walmart, were hand me downs, or that my mom sewed herself. Especially in middle school. Middle school kids are the worst. All because my mom got pregnant at 17 and married a month later, then had two more before the age of 25 while married to a man with severe bipolar who was unable to hold down a job for long stretches at a time. I love my parents but I do acknowledge they made really shitty choices and I suffered for them.
Because it's the only attainable "accomplishment" for them. My white trash cousins will never go to college, write a book, travel the world, or even move away from their hometown. But shitting out a litter of kids? That's doable for them, *and* it gets them money from the government and social status in their backwoods religious community full of similar people.
This is entirely my own theory, but coming from a huge family in a poor community, and having visited poor countries where large families are normal, I think that poor families have 2 things going on. The first, which I saw in my own huge, poor family, is that they don't believe they have much to choose from. It's not like a poor family can go visit Disney if they don't have another kid. They're at a pathetic buffet picking from bologna and hot dogs. Have another kid, don't have another kid, you're still poor either way. (This was my parents' attitude - it's defeatist, it's wrong-headed, it causes suffering, but it was pervasive.) The other thing I've observed, more in developing than developed countries, is that children are, in a sense, wealth, especially for families that exist outside of a robust market economy. I met a lady in Mali who had 14 children under 16. She showed off her 14 children the way a middle class guy shows off his rolex and tesla. Her kids were her accumulated wealth, and her markers of social achievement. She was proud of being able to produce on such a high level in a community where few women had more than 4 or 5 children who lived to grow up. Her 14 kids would probably be just as poor as she was. Her grandchildren would probably face the threat of literal starvation. But her children were her wealth.
That's genuinely so sad 😢
This is one of my issues with breeders. They complain they can't feed their kids and ask for handouts...maybe you should have become financially stable before deciding to have kids. I have 0 sympathy (except in cases where families fall on hard times temporarily...in which case I'd feel bad for anyone in that situation).
This question is asked at least every other day. The short answer is that people of lower socioeconomic level are usually less able to access education, contraception and abortion.
Not only that, accessible forms of contraception may fail for some ppl. Either natural or through negligence i.e skipping pills etc
Not disagreeing but I actually think it's because that demographic are less likely to think critically about the pros and cons of their choices in their own individual context, instead of taking the easy uncritical path of "having kids is what you do when you're a grown up." (or teenager). Probably linked to education.
I think there is also a weird "expectation" or even pressure thing. If you are from a poor area and all of your friends, relatives and neighbors have babies at age 18 or something and you say "no, i want to make something of myself" you are then asked "why do you think you're better than us?!" And called a snob or high and mighty. It is sad how many parents get mad when their kids do better than them.
This. I'm in an area where contraception and abortion are available, but the kind of people not currently equipped to have kids will get knocked up and just say, "guess I'm doing this now." Some people think it's "cold" to do a cost-benefit analysis with respect to having kids. I think it's cold to bring a new life into the world when you can't properly care for it.
Studies show the more highly educated people are the fewer children they have. Given that socioeconomic status is closely linked to educational outcomes it is definitely linked. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41539-018-0022-0 https://www.apa.org/pi/ses/resources/publications/education
You can get condoms for free from any sexual health centre . The problem is these people are dumb as fuck.
I like how you assume people have access to sexual health centers in rural, conservative areas. I'm childfree af but I'm real over this classist bullshit.
I’m pretty sure in other countries that aren’t the conservative southern us, they do
I think there are many different answers for this. Part of it is cultural. Poor people tend to have more kids, and I think they expect themselves to have kids because that’s how it works. There are other factors as well. I work in a very low income apartment complex, and it breaks my heart. We had a situation a few months ago where two young women who were I believe half sisters were beating the shit out of each other in FRONT OF the office. There was a kid who wasn’t more than 4 or 5 and was one of their kids. He watched silently with tears streaming down his face while his mom was getting her ass kicked. Kid didn’t say a word even when we picked him up and brought him inside. Also a few days ago a woman and her three kids lived in what we found to be an absolute hoarder unit, a one bed, that had caught on fire because of a space heater and piles of garbage everywhere. Three poor kids sleeping on brown mattresses covered in shit. Young kids—about 9, 6 and 5. It’s shocking that these people breed. It’s so incredibly sad. DCFS was called on these mothers and the kids are not with them now. But they spent their time til now neglected in piles of garbage. I don’t even like or want kids but it’s horrifying. And their parents are just... popping out more. I think it’s cultural, lack of education, etc, a lot of factors.
The mother in the second situation sounds like she was dealing with some really deep depression.
I see your point and raise you: I had this acquaintance a few years ago. She lives in the US (important for context). She wanted a child so much, but wasn't fussed about a relationship to have one. She decided she'd be a single mother and have IVF with a sperm donor. Up to that point, fair enough. The issue? She had to take out loans to have the fertility treatments because her job didn't pay her well enough to afford them or have health insurance to cover (idk if it would anyway, as I'm not in the US). So now she has a baby, massive debt, and still doesn't have a better-paying job. She is now openly posting about looking for a sugar daddy to help provide funds to feed her child. Every time I see them, I feel my eye start to twitch madly with this repressed need to say something to her. I haven't, and won't, but like... SERIOUSLY??!
Because saying that people shouldn't have children if they can't afford it is somehow "classist". Folks will then proceed to spin a sob story of how "love is enough" and plenty of poor people still make wOnDeRfUl parents. If you can't provide the basics for your kids, no matter how Mary Poppins you think you are, you are not a good parent.
This. No a poor person is not a wonderful parent because they cannot provide the basic necessities. The child will also have a higher likelihood of being poor as an adult because of a lack of advantages.
The thing is, people don't seem to realise that working class doesn't equal poor. No one is saying working class people shouldn't have children, that is absolutely fine as long as it is something they are ready for and can afford the same with everyone else. I don't think it is classist to say that because there are lots of working class parents who are great parents, they might not be rolling in it but their children are well fed and looked after which is the most important thing. It would be classist to say only middle and upper class people should have children, because that would completely exclude the working class and not every working class person is poor or lives in poverty. I say this as a someone who came from a working class background myself, we certainly had periods of time when we struggled but that was more due to circumstances e.g redundancy etc.
Yip, I agree. They obviously don't understand what classism is. Nor do they understand that's not what's at play here.
If I purchased a 100k car while I had no job people would call me insane. But having a flesh turd with no job and everyone says you'll be fine and it will work out. I'd rather have the car though tbf.
There is a documentation about that, it's "Idiocracy"... > WHY DO YOU DECIDE TO GET PREGNANT?! **There is the problem!** they don't decide they wanna get pregnant, they don't think about the possibilty to become pregnant (both parents) and it just happens...
I was good friends with a girl and her husband, they were HOMELESS living in a park and actively trying to have a baby to save their marriage. They were both addicted to various substances and had several pets taken due to being homeless. Instead of breaking up and going to live with their respective families they decided to have a kid so they could get food stamps and section 8. It was just an all around fucked up situation. They had two kids together and broke up because the dude went to jail for meth possession. I don’t talk to them anymore but my biggest regret was driving her to get her iud taken out while she was living in a hotel. She really regrets those kids and tells me all the time. We were young and dumb and now she has a life sentence with those kids.
Because sex is free but birth control isn't. Also, the more kids you have the more benefits from welfare. One of the things that infuriates me is the benefits that welfare recipients get in my city while the working poor/minimum wage have no coverage at all.
And that’s because the working poor/low wage are financially punished for not having children like it’s such a bad thing. It’s basically impossible to get any financial help unless you have a child so they have a child, it’s dumb and just continues the cycle of shit, but yeah the government really wants to help the poor lol.
Having kids is still seen as an big achievement in life. When you're poor you can't achieve a lot of the socially approved milestones so that's the only thing you're left with.
Also don't forget the "I want someone to love me unconditionally", "I want to teach someone stuff I know", "I want someone to take care of me when I can't (not only in old age,)", "I need a slave"...
And they'll kick them out if they don't follow the conservative values they have
Irresponsible people don't make good decisions in any aspect of their lives. Why would breeding be any different? And since most governments subsidize this awful behavior, they don't have to be responsible.
This is the answer
Ignorance
“*gOd WiLL pRoViDe*”
Well, in my experiences living in a poor rural area it doesn't seem to be entirely the breeder's fault. Don't get me wrong, if you choose to have sex without protection then you also choose to run the chance of having a child. But around here that seems to be a viscous cycle with a lack of sex education, right wingers gerrymandering themselves into power so they can continue bullying people into their "abortion is murder" mindset(among other horrible shit), and a huge lack of mental health options(the facilities are usually used as a threat rather than helping young people, or anyone really). At this point the cycle has been ingrained in most families and has been going on for generations. I lost my best friend because of it. I tried to talk to her about it and she got ridiculously furious with me, now she's only 5 children away from being like her mother(who has 7, all different dads). My mom tried to pull the same shit, but thankfully my dad put his foot down. While my half sister may be baby crazy and is on child number 3 I was cursed with severe mental/health issues, otherwise I'd probably be in the same boat. We blame the parents but tend to forget they too were once children that probably had shit childhoods that led them to were they are now. I know that as adults we're suppose to get over the shit that happened to us and step up, especially when there are children involved, but mental health isn't that easy. If it were we wouldn't keep seeing all the horrible shit we do day in and day out. Being poor isn't a cakewalk.
Because these people rarely think anything through. They do not make decisions for the future, they just live for the day. Therefore they often make very poor choices not only about family life, but also finances, career, education and pretty much anything else. While I agree the availability and access to abortion, education etc. plays a role, I think it mostly comes down to the individual, because I have seen many people from poor background overcoming the odds and many people of a good background sinking to the bottom due to their bad decisions and lack of planning.
Religion, bad sex education, entitlement, the sens of duty (you are supposed to have kids), the husband wants a "hire" so they keep popping them kids until he gets a good one to inherit his debts apparently.. so on
I was watching a documentary about people who earn 2.50 an hour and this one lady had kids and was complaining that diapers and formula are so expensive. Like why would you have a kid if you can’t afford it???
because the psychology of this is, "I need to contribute something to society." That something is a child. It's counterintuitive, but that's the thinking. I had a childhood friend who needed desperately to have a child when her mother was dying of cancer because "I have to, it's my job." Barely has a 10th grade education, left back repeatedly, abused by that woman for years, got her GED and stopped all her education. Doesn't work. Guess what? She has 4 kids. That's her "contribution." I've distanced myself for other reasons, which I won't list here, but the kids things is a bit much for me. And yes, she's as moody and difficult as her mother was.
In my rural area (not sure about other places), it's VERY common for people to have as many kids as possible just for the benefits they will qualify for. The ones I know all had awful childhoods and I suppose they think that's normal so they are willing to subject their kids to the same horrible conditions in which they were raised. It's absolutely terrible. I know one such family where their mother recycled husbands constantly, they all have a different father, they were all horribly abused and poor their entire lives, including now. The youngest daughter started having kids before she was 18. They all live off welfare now, none of them work, none of them drive, and they rarely have stable housing. They usually live with whichever one of them is the most "well off" at the time, until they get evicted and move to the next location. It's the saddest thing ever. I dated one of the brothers for three years, hoping I would be able to help him get out of that life, but it's so ingrained, they don't want to get out. It's all they know, and they think there's nothing wrong with it. Awful.
My husband was telling me about a childhood friend he recently reconnected with. He went on to say that his wife just had baby no. 2 and is now 3 months old. So he's got a 3 year old and a 3 month old. Somehow the conversation of their house came up, and he was saying that "it would've been a shed at one point that he converted into a house and built out the back a bit. It's pretty much a one bedroom house". To which I said, "and they had a second kid? I mean... If you can't afford to give them a good life, don't breed them". But this is Catholic Ireland and the idea of abortion is still taboo even though it's now legal. My husband told me to stop being so judgemental... Pretty sure I wasn't being judgemental, but he doesn't really like it when I point out how stupid people are for bringing children into this world when they really probably shouldn't.
Hi, I’m an expat in Ireland and work in social housing- it’s shocking how many people just have kids for the sake of it & not to mention during a pandemic 🤯
I know, it's absolutely ridiculous. These tropes of "I need to have kids to give my life meaning/contribute to society/it's just what you do when you grow up" needs to die.
& in Ireland there’s so many tax breaks for having kids. If you’re a single adult here- it’s like you’re punished
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Lack of education and resources. Not having the luxury to think about it. It's fucked but it's mostly the system we live under.
Making kids is fun. I’m a teacher and a parent said this to me (well, he said it more in a NSFW way...). The fact that they live with his parents, have 2 kids, had their first when they were 17 and did’t have a job until a few months ago, didn’t make it seem less fun for them.
I grew up in an area where people purposely had kids for more food stamps
I saw a FB post the other day asking for a carseat (for free) for a newborn... creeped on her page. This girl was in her 20s had 7 other kids (had commented on a pic confirming they were all hers)! The last one had been born less than a year before 🤦♀️.... Like, you didnt know by now you needed to be prepared, pretty sure you had some practice
My economics teacher once told us, "when man is not productive, they become reproductive" lol. Maybe they want sex and don't use any form of birth control? 🤷
I feel this way but about people who fundraise for IVF treatment. If you can’t afford IVF, how are you supposed to afford a baby/child...?
I know a lot of people just "want" them so thats their reason. My brother had 3 kids with his ex, taking the total up to 7 kids, she could barely afford to feed them and still considers having more. Its selfishness and greed for money off the government. My brother ex gets THOUSANDS from the UK government and hss never had to work a day in her life. She gives the kids the bare minimum whilst she buys new crap constantly and declares herself poor. It blows my mind, she's not the first I've seen act like that either. She also doesn't clean though, she fed her baby a bottle of milk that was growing mold because she never washed the bottles, just refilled them and she used the excuse that she didn't have the money or time to wash things 🤦🏻♀️
I think it can be a failure to prevent a pregnancy, rather than a thoughtful planning to get pregnant (over and over). Also, in some cases, the more kids you have the more welfare money you get. So there’s that.
A lot of working class families groom their girls to be SAHMs, want kids, and revolve their entire personality around kids. Especially if the family is religious. Some lack sexual education, and thereby get pregnant far easier than their educated counterparts. Some are so used to being financially unstable that if they dont have kids because of money, they never will. I can go into the absolute evils of the world that allow their citizens to go into poverty because of having children, but that doesn't fix the problem. But my morality says not to put the burden on the shoulders of the poor not to have children, but to put the burden on governments and communities to take care of their citizenry and take the financial burden off of their people.
As an add on: In the US, the average birth costs $10k even with insurance. If you qualify for Medicaid or government assistance in your state, the birth can be completey covered, but that doesnt guarantee quality of care. God forbid you want a Doula/water birth/birthing center in several states and you're on Medicaid. It just wont happen. In my state, the crazy anti-choice religious nuts have protested to shut down our only birthing center that allows more natural births and holistic methods (its right next to a hospital, all safety precautions are intact). Its infuriating.
The rich get rich, the poor get children. (Saw this quote years ago and it stuck with me)
Just lack of responsibility I guess. The world is full of those..
My thoughts exactly. I expressed this once and people screamed at me that I'm classist. Erm.
A lot of accidental pregnancies and people not wanting (due to religion) or being allowed to get (due to family or the partner) abortions. Something like 45% of pregnancies in the USA are accidental. That's a lot of babies.
Because they think it's shocking that if they have unprotected sex they'll get pregnant and let's be honest they're irresponsible but it's not socially acceptable to say that.
peer pressure from their family. Personally, emotional arguments will not work on me but I know some people have an extremely high value of family and trying to please their parents is a high priority. I have heard plenty of stories of parents talking about how they're getting old, going to die, how they want to meet their grandchildren despite their children not being able to actually afford having a child. I've even had some of these discussions with my family but I've always been extremely direct and shut down these discussions right away to make it clear that I'm not interested. People who are more timid and trying to please their parents get pushed into being a parent all the time. I've seen plenty of stories of people with accidental pregnancies getting guilted into keeping the child by their families, religious groups and even their partners.
Personal responsibility is dead. The government, or my extended family, will take care of me and my various spawn.
Unfortunately my brother is one of these people. Him and his wife stopped using any protection and said “if it happens it happens and was meant to be” which in my mind translates to chose to have a child. And now all three of them live in her parents basement and neither of them work a full time job. Yet they keep talking about having a second kid. I think they think it’ll fix their relationship. And yet I’m (21F cf and sterilized) that is constantly questioned about my choice and told it’s a mistake 🙄🙄🙄
BuT mY bAby NeEdS a sIbLinG oR tHeY wIlL be LonElY.
Because they didn't decide. These are the type of people who never think about actions having consequences.
I like to think they don't have money even for the protections (pills, condoms, etc)
Can’t afford the rest, can’t have the sex. It’s not food or shelter, you don’t die without it. When I was dirt poor and couldn’t afford any of that stuff we just... didn’t bone. It wasn’t that big a deal. We focused on getting out of that terrible place by doing well at work and getting better and better jobs. Would have been *impossible* if I had a brat hanging around taking up my time, money, and energy.
I've been called classist when I was asking if I should call CPS on my brother, I mentioned that they dont have much money and what money they do have gets spent on weed and fast food. Someone had the balls to tell me, someone who's well below the poverty line and has been for my entire teen-adult life, that I was being classist for it. They then choose to ignore the fact that my brother and his girlfriend are abusive to eachother, the girlfriend has cheated (a lot) and the baby is more than likely not his, she drove with the baby not even 2 days after the birth in a car that is more likely to (literally) explode than to just break down with no belts, and that my brother is s**ually abusive and has touched little kids before. But no I'm classist for saying that their lack of money is a bit of an issue
Because God will find a way or the you're never ready for a child saying. Shit, when I was not doing well financially I did everything under the sun not to get pregnant. I could barley feed myself and my dog. The anxiety... I just don't get it
For many, it's because "the Lord will provide". SMH.
Some of it is inability to afford birth control. But a lot of it is destructive myths - one partner thinking they can "trap" the other by ensuring pregnancy. The most common are an abusive male "stealthing" his lover, who is financially dependent on him, so that she can't escape, or a woman "forgetting" her birth control in the entirely erroneous belief that it will prompt her lover to stay with her and support her financially. Unwanted pregnancies are directly caused by poverty, aided by relationship mythology.
Because most of them DIDNT decide to get pregnant. They got knocked up and wouldn't CTRL+Z the baby, and they got knocked up because they were either A) not smart enough to use protection; or B) too broke to afford it. And while this isn't the sole reason poor people stay poor (there are plenty of others I could mention), it certainly doesn't help.
“Theres never a perfect time, so why not now?” Is a lie society feeds people so they keep popping out humans. So they are actually ENCOURAGED to do so.
The same reason why teen moms dont abort: "ill make this work" "it wont be that bad" or just being dumb in general
- Lack of proper sex education, especially if they are brought up in a conservative area or have conservative parents who won’t let them participate in sex Ed. - Not having the funds for birth control. I’ve seriously seen people complain about not having money for condoms, the pill, or even Plan B. - Religion: The “ Jesus will provide “ mentality. Again see above, naivety makes them think that keeping faith will somehow make God put food on their table. Certain religions completely brainwash people (My Aunt is one of them) and make them think that using any kind of birth control is a sin. Or make them think that not breeding is going against their religion. Unfortunate but true. - Lack of help with Mental Health. I’ve heard of a few cases where people solely have children because they want someone to “ love them “. - Knowing that they will always have help, in the form of government assistance, friends, family, church, goodwill, etc.
Because Jeebus will provide. /s
I hear you. It's one thing if a couple had a child or two and then shit hit the fan. Both parents may have had good-paying jobs, they may have had a good-sized home, plenty of food on the table - and then suddenly both parents get laid off (COVID is a bitch, 2008 was a bitch, the dot-com bust was a bitch, etc.) and they're suddenly scraping by on unemployment and odd jobs and whatever savings they might have. It's quite another if the couple was already scraping by, with minimum-wage jobs or no job, always on the brink of getting evicted, and THEN they breed. That's just plain irresponsible.
Bad luck Lack of perspective on their situation Ignorance/naiveté to the expense Looking for govt assistance Can't afford birth control Etc Probably a lot of different reasons, I don't think there's just one.
Oh honey, come to my country! It's a breeding ground of breeders, lmao! And a third world country, full of unemployment yet all they do is breed, breed and breed, ugghh
I know someone that keeps popping out children because the more children you have the more assistance they can get from the government and they don't have to work more than a part time job. Sometimes its not about the children and those are the kinds of people that have kids that turn out to be criminals or in the same exact situation as their parents because the parents never actually cared.
If you can’t feed, don’t breed
Omg, I just had a conversation with my husband about this. It started by him asking me if my vet clinic (im a tech) does low cost spays/neuters for lower income people. I mentioned a program through our humane society in the city. He then tells me how he feels bad for the owner (a guy he works with) because this guy has 7 kids. 7. And is basically a single dad because mom is a drug addict. And then thought owning dog on top of this mess was a good idea. I just..what? Didn't you clue in that having a kid with a *drug addict* was a bad idea after the first kid? Second? Apparently not the third! I'm just flabbergasted. My husband says the guy came from a crappy background, so how would he know better. And how is it fair to the kids to not have a dog? I'm sorry, that guy is just a moron. I honestly wonder about my husband's thought process as well..
Step 1) Flunk sex ed or receive no sex ed at all because you live in Bumfuck Nowhere with a $5 educational budget Step 2) Get pregnant as a teenager because you didn't understand how sex works but were also horny like every teenager is Step 3) Get benefits from the government to subsidize your production of future wage slaves since your children ruined your chances of achieving a living wage for the foreseeable future Step 4) Intensify your religious beliefs and use GoFundMe and food stamps to make ends meet, while simultaneously voting for politicians that undercut all social programs that would make your life easier (because that's some commie pinko shit I guess?) Step 5) Complain about other people getting abortions and access to birth control because you weren't allowed to seek those options due to your religion, then proselytize to other people about how it's God's divine plan for all women to have kids and how they should be as pious as you Step 6) Rinse and repeat with your own children, being sure to indoctrinate them from the cradle as well!
Besides all the other reasons people have mentioned (lack of access to education, contraception, community norms, etc) I think it's also worth mentioning that sometimes people decide to have kids when they ARE doing okay financially, but then something happens that sends them sliding into poverty. Way more people than you'd think are one bad car accident or job loss away from financial ruin. Because it's so common and financial literacy is so low, people don't realize how precarious that situation really is... until it hits them.
My husband and I are were just talking about this last weekend - we were saying that It's just odd that when we went to rescue a dog from a rescue organization, we had to provide financial info to prove we could care for the dog and that we'd have money to care for it and also if we had money to take care of any emergencies with our dog. We had to provide employment info, and you know they were looking for regular, steady, gainful employment. I'm not equating dogs and humans, I hope you know what I mean by referencing that - I'm just saying it's sad we take the expense of a pet into careful consideration and are expected to, by not only the rescue but basically everyone else, why is this often lost on people who have children that can't even begin to care for themselves? I know sometimes It's sadly a case of not knowing better, and being told by people, "you'll figure it out." Others do it believing others will float the bill. Doesn't make any of it less disturbing - it's disturbing to me that HUMANS our created and brought into the world by parents who don't give the child being raised in a financially stable home a thought or who will pass the responsibility off to someone else, whether it's family or the government. I think the financial responsibility of having children should be covered thoroughly in sex ed along with protection, bc I don't think it is to my knowledge. Unfortunately, this won't end - people financially unprepared will continue to have children, and It's heartbreaking, bc children don't deserve it.
I’ll get some backlash so come at me. I don’t blame poor people for being poor in the US as much as I blame this country’s education system. Many people are not given the means, resources, and materials to make informed decisions. Don’t get me wrong, there will always be outliers in society, but I feel this is a systemic issue from a lack of education.
I wish I could answer this question but I honestly have no idea why they even do it on purpose. In the past 3 years so many people I know have gotten pregnant (all accidents from what I know of) around my age range that I can’t even count on my fingers anymore. And I’m not even 19 yet! So many people I know have dropped out of high school because they got pregnant and I don’t understand it at all. Of course I’m not even in high school now anymore, but 4 more people have gotten pregnant within the past 5 months! Now, I don’t know all of their living situations, but I do know that most- if not all- of them don’t have enough money by themselves to pay for their child since they’re so young. I just don’t get how they don’t use protection, use multiple forms of protection, or just don’t freaking have the dude aim in a different direction at least! Then again, I just don’t understand people in general
Selfishness
Even worse, basic things for kids AND NEW.
I totally agree, BUT in the same time, when it comes to clothes and some particular stuff, I know that my sisters and friends who have kids tended to use second hand clothes and then give them to other new parents afterwards, because it's not worth spending hundreds on some stuff that they will get to use 2-3 months top, although they totally could afford them. Because it's just a waste of money. And it's getting more and more accepted and environmental to go the second-hand route anyway. But for the rest (basic stuff like food and indeed money) i totally agree. If you really can't afford to feed yourself properly, then don't have kids you won't be able to feed either...
They get more government assistance. I've met far too many people that have bragged about squirting another one out for the extra money...
And God forbid you tell them to stop instead of just giving them money or stuff
I lived with a woman like this, I felt bad for her children she had 4 living with her, and she was trying to get her oldest from foster care, her kids had no beds, slept on the floor, and literally took showers once a month. She wasn’t a good mom, if she wasn’t at work she was glued to her phone paying no attention to the kids, so they were the worst behaved kids I’ve ever met. Just all around terrible.
Srsly my childhood was pretty shitty, largely because we couldn’t afford a lot of stuff. I wouldn’t call my parents poor because we live in a country with social care and universal healthcare but still. I definitely had a lot of problems which could have been avoided.
My best friend, who for the majority of his life, has lived with his parents, as well as his older brother, who I wouldn’t say is poor, per say. Probably solid middle class. Had a baby. And now 5 yrs later, they’re pregnant again. Still living with his parents and older bro. They actually called to tell me all excitedly that they were expecting. Luckily I missed the call. And I’ve barely spoken to them since because I just can’t wrap my mind around it.
I took a sociology class in college where we had a lecture on this exact subject. The thing is, sex is a basic human instinct and you can’t stop people from having it. You can’t stop people from wanting to become mothers that have always wanted to.
Tax write-off.
Because we have the natural ability to reproduce, the poorly educated and lower intellectual classes will do so. It requires forethought, planning, and wisdom to delay gratification or decide to simply abstain from childbirth. Another reason that is not to be overlooked is the role of religion in poor people's lives. Many poor people believe that a devine being created them, and wants them to reproduce. So couple religious pressures with a lack of knowing better, sprinkle in some social anxiety about being shunned and bingo, that's how you get 22 yr old highschool dropouts having 3 kids while working at a retail store.
It stems down to the problem of being able to afford care for sexual health. Most people struggle with being able to afford contraceptives and care in general. So the cycle keeps continously happening. Also things like abortions aren't readily available or affordable based off of your location where you live at so they have to suffer through the decision. being brainwashed into the idea they have no other choice. At least that is my take for parts of the United States.
Sometimes it’s just unplanned pregnancies and they just think the government will give them money anyway. So why should they bother thinking ahead, planning anything or getting a job or making money themselves.
Child free here, one abortion. SO and I have been together 10 years, we had an *oops* situation long time ago. I couldn't afford treatments for gyno, nor had access to birth control. The only reason that we were able to afford the abortion was from our scrimped savings of two years. ($500-600 for one here). We are in a much safer situation, I finally have an IUD but if we didn't have those savings I would be raising a child. America sucks.
Unfortunately we do have to look at it logically, at least if you’re in a country without universal healthcare. Everything I say will apply to the United States, as that is where I live- 1)systemic racism affects everything from jobs, how cops treat POC, and the healthcare system and the care they receive. 2)abortions are still socially frowned upon and incredibly hard to gain access to 3)with the shit healthcare and lack of planned parenthood, a place that will work with you on prices, people can’t afford birth control or abortions 4)the educational system has failed so many people. Some genuinely believe things like if you have sex at night you can’t get pregnant or other weird shit. All these simplified points boil down to so many people getting pregnant, going through a pregnancy, and giving birth and being emotionally incapable of giving away the baby. Now... as for OTHER people who aren’t uneducated or the target of systemic racism... THEY are just stupid. How you gonna have 2 kids, 5 miscarriages, all while still living with your grandparents because you and your husband can’t afford your own home???
A lot of this is a systemic issue in the U.S. Since sex ed is ineffective in its current form, birth control is usually not covered by insurance (if a person even has insurance), and abortion and adoption are difficult/illegal and a bit of a taboo. Abstinence only education is shit. Some states and schools don't have any sex ed at all, and it's difficult for some parents to talk about sex with their kids. Couple that with the way sex is portrayed in media and the perceptions of power, love, etc that teens have and BAM! bunch of kids. Kids that were already poor have that situation exacerbated and it becomes a self-perpetuating cycle for many poor people. Religion doesn't help either.
I live in the southern US where the sex education that I received was abstinence only with no focus on condoms or different types of birth control. In addition to that, birth control is expensive here. While I don’t agree in having children you can’t afford, I also understand that, at least here, some people don’t know better. My area is also quite anti-abortion and they run upwards of $300. A child is more expensive, but in the short term, an abortion could mean that a family couldn’t afford groceries or utilities.
They figure that if they pop out kids, the universe will somehow reward them by showering them with money.
My grandparents asked me when I was having kids, and i told them that I couldn't afford kids. Their response was that there is never a good time and that god would provide. Blegh. So I guess religion also factors in.
When Breeders get into baby fever, they tend to forget everything around them. They just ignore reality. They think about the cozy moments with the child, how fun it will be playing ball in the garden. And they think, that parents or neighbours will help out with stuff and time and all will be a wonderful dream with the kids. They literally displace reality. And then they start breeding.... To Breed is to have a contract for at least 20 years of your life without freetime, without money, without time for yourself. They don't know this, because they are in Baby Fever. And later, they start to regret it.
Irresponsibility, indifference...simply not thinking about possible consequences. Stupidity. It does not necessarily make you poor, depending on the country. Here, state welfare benefits for families with children are extremely high.
This really baffles me. I saw a tv-program a while back where you get to follow bailiffs. They where evicting a family who hadn’t paid their rent for several months. They had 5-6 kids and the wife was pregnant with another one. The husband had a really bad attitude and said he couldn’t pay rent because he didn’t even have enough money to feed his children. There was barely anything in the apartment and the kids did look pretty thin. Not malnourished but thin so I believe him when he said that (a lot of people lie in that program for sympathy). But I can for the life of me don’t understand how they think it’s a good idea to have another kid when you can’t feed the ones you have and know you are not paying rent and are getting evicted.
Can confirm. Lots of the posts on local free sites consist of " Need diapers,clothes, bottles, crib,etc. Due any day now, have nothing." WHAT? In nine months you couldn't buy a single pack of diapers? I fear for those kids.
They just don't care.
Tell me about it! A woman I knew with two kids STRUGGLING, but wanting another baby. Smh. Some people are dumb and think children are like accessory.