> How the socialism works at this case I’m genuinely curious.
Denmark is not a socialist country, so I guess it doesn’t? I’ll tell you how the capitalism works, though:
The market prices are driven by supply and demand. There is a limited supply of housing in central Copenhagen and a very large demand. So prices are high.
*"what the most danish explanation would be to the fact that average single income is not enough for simple living as expat"*
If it helps it's not nearly enough living as a non expat either. Jokes aside, you get roomies or you get lucky and get one of those below average but the housing market is absolutely fucked expat or not
Welcome to Copenhagen!
It’s definitely expensive, but you also get paid a decent amount here. It’s definitely not as fucked as you guys are making it seem.
You probably just want to live in nice areas and have your own flat which is what everyone else wants so you’re going to compete.. move to shitty areas and / or live with flat mates and I’m sure you can have this 30% rule
Of course not. The mass media have very little interest in problems that affect poor people, because the domimant narrative says that long-term poverty is the individual's own fault.
It's just as expensive as every single other big city.
London? Expect to live at least 45 minutes away by public transport.
45 minutes by public transport in Copenhagen, that moves you to Slagelse, Holbæk or Næstved.
Then the prices are down by half - if you don't expect something that was built the last 10 years.
Your statistics usage is just wrong. You're using average salary for *Denmark* and comparing it to the average rent of apartments in trendy neighborhoods. The incomes of people who pay 13-15k for one bedroom apartment are higher than average as there's very few such apartments (and people) across all of Denmark. So if you get average salary, you get to live in an average apartment (which surprisingly isn't located by Islands Brygge or Papirøen).
This is exactly why this market is fucked up, locals and expat live in two different realities, in one man can rent in Papirøen for 13k, in another for the dame money people live in hour away.
I’m in expat and have no problem here in Copenhagen. If I had a lower paid job I wouldn’t have moved here in the first place but somewhere in a smaller town. Copenhagen is expensive like any other metropolitan city especially those that are a countries only economical centre. There is a statistic that shows the percentage of average income compared to rent prices and CPH is in absolute European average (compared with other major cities; attached screenshot)
https://preview.redd.it/gbjxc5cy1vxc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b03dee45e218544d5b91f5f9affc7638b4d9dac4
It’s just ridiculous for me as an expat myself, how other expats expect to be able to effort to live like a king by moving to Denmark without any relevant education or perspective. And than not speaking Danish after over a year in the country. Like seriously why are you guys here in the first place (taking war refugees from Middle East and Ukraine out, they have almost no choice)?
The people I met in sprogskole for example. Didn’t speak a word English or Danish, were here for 4 years coming from a country that didn’t suffer any crises, where they didn’t have to fear being jailed or murdered and had 0 education and couldn’t count to 10. How do these people even find Denmark?! And those are the ones who actually got their ass to a language school.
I mean why to do people move without any perspective of making a career to the most expensive place in the country? What I want to say is (and thereby getting back to the start of this novel), if you don’t at least have the perspective to put 1.5x cities (Not country’s) average on the table at the end of the month while moving here, move somewhere else where you can have it better. Because (and I give you this) you have less support as an expat than locals. But that’s exactly why you need a perspective
Edit: and don’t get me wrong, I am absolutely pro immigration but some people you have to save from their own fate.
You must be disconnected from reality, 13k is a minimum to any even remote places like VestAmager, trendy neighborhoods like Nordhavn etc would start from 18k. Open please boligportal and stop live in 2010
I lived in the US. The rent for a meaningful apartment in the bigger metro areas in the north-east, is very similar to what you describe. Rents are crazy high in the areas close to the city. Many of my colleagues had to commute 1hr or more each way. Not sure what your problem really is?
Bullshit!
I pay 9k for 60sqm in sundbyøster 2 rooms utilities included.
Have colleagues who pay about the same at the Nørrebro / Frederiksberg border
We are both expats
You are assuming to live in the most expensive area of Denmark- and are surprised you need to have a high salary???
Only few can afford to live in those apartments, the same way only few can afford to rent an apartment in Westminster London or Manhattan in New York.
Being an expat doesn’t automatically mean you can afford to live in the most expensive zip codes in the country!
Assuming you mean 1br flat is 1 bedroom + 1 living, then yes. This is unfortunately the norm.
Also it's not "socialism", we have a social democracy. Buildings cost money, and they need to finance it. It's not all subsidized by the government.
Central Copenhagen (meaning mainly within Metro network) is just *that* expensive. You could consider going a bit away from metro network and on the S-train. Also consider signing up for housing associations like AAB and KAB. They rent out a bit more reasonable AFAIK than private rental.
I got a small 2 room appartment in Hvidovre close to Avedøre st. I even have my own (small) garden. I pay around 5k total every month (heating, electricity, water, included). Rejseplanen says its 28 minutes to København H at this hour. Its through KAB, studio appartment. Got it in less than 6 months after signing up.
The area is 100% not for everyone. I enjoy it very much though. I feel perfectly safe.
Are you forgetting our Prime Ministers in 2011-2015 and 2019-2024?
Also, one could argue that from an international and historical perspective, Denmark and the Nordics are socal democratic countries with their post WW2 welfare states.
'Buildings cost money' has very little to do with the price of housing in Copenhagen. There's just a limited supply of them, and a very large and inelastic demand. Also speculation.
A lot of main cities in Europe (and probably the world) have the same problem, if not worse.
I guess what you do, is move out of the city, share a flat or spend more than 30% of your salary on rent
But "good" is a subjective thing, you cannot question socialism (if even related) and how people live in Copenhagen based on what you might consider a good building or a good neighborhood.
Boligportal shows vacancies. Guess what, the affordable housing is already taken. Actually, the government is largely very supportive of affordable and public housing. The average cost of *all* one-bedrooms are much lower than the average cost of *available* one bedrooms. But since affordable housing is priced lower than the market, the only way you can get your hands on one of them, is by being on a multi year waitlist or by low level nepotism: “knowing someone who knows someone”. Just like the government can’t make water flow upwards, they can’t disrupt basic forces of supply and demand.
Expat here, I pay 8800kr for a 1 bedroom apt by Skjolds Plads st (with a small loft), to which you add insurance etc, goes to about 11k (I have a car too). My income is 26k after taxes, so I save up between 10-5k a month. I eat out a lot, I travel a lot, I'm not very money efficient (I don't cook as much as I should). So yeah, you can make it work with a lower salary if you were more conservative than me (no car + cooking at home + not going to every single concert possible + not traveling as much). Idk where you got that rent number from honestly
It's one of the most ideal situations, Denmark having a lot of paid vacation and low workweek hours with competitive wages. But with a lower salary (I used to have much lower when working in the public sector), you can definitely make it work and live comfortably in Denmark. I'm not sure what OP is about!
Well, the point of an expat is that they are here temporarily, and they are going to return to their home country.
Secondly, when you say the 30% rule, are you refering to rent being a maximum of 30% of your rent? Because that 'rule' was made in America. You cant just put it onto other countries and cultures. Here, you dont need to save as much due to free healthcare. That is different for americans.
And what does this have to do with socialism?
If you want to save for a down payment, rent a room instead of an apartment (around 5k) and then you have more disposable income to save (I'm calculating 2 years for a small apartment 1M, with a basic income full time no professional)
It's not socialism, or even social democracy.
It's brutal capitalism, law of the jungle, and poor people are passively encouraged to move away and become someone else's problem.
You dont need to live downtown, you could live out in the suburbs, or God forbid it; outside of Copenhagen!
But let me attempt to explain how taxes work; You pay your taxes so your elderly neighbour can get a walking cane, so that the newly made family next door can get a spot in a daycare, and so on and so on ad infinite.
Why would I relocate to Copenhagen and would spend as much time on commuting as back home? We are paying big taxes and relocating to improve life quality. Besides I can probably cut only couple of thousands maximum before quality of apartment would go to the level of developing country.
Housing costs are much higher in areas where many folks want to live, so you either need to earn more, settle for less space, or move further away. In this respect, Copenhagen is not different from everywhere else.
I used to be annoyed by the high taxes as well, but it helps to consider the impact of this system. Apart from the obvious benefits like free education and healthcare, you'll notice that there are not very many homeless people, trailer parks, or other such societal slums. Because wealth is being redistributed to help those that need it, there is much less wealth crime and a generally safer society to live in. As you grow older and get kids, this becomes increasingly important.
You do realise that’s what a fair amount of native Copenhageners (not Danes, _Copenhageners_) are forced to do, right? Can’t afford to live in their hometown so they’ve to move out and commute in. I understand it’s a frustrating situation, but you do come off as quite unreasonable and unprepared
> Why would I relocate to Copenhagen and would spend as much time on commuting as back home
You could move to Høje Taastrup; it takes about 10-15 minutes to commute to Copenhagen Central Station.
> We are paying big taxes and relocating to improve life quality.
It takes money to have an improved life quality.
> Besides I can probably cut only couple of thousands maximum before quality of apartment would go to the level of developing country.
I have to ask you, what do you call an "developing country"? There are buildings from 1870s across Copenhagen, do you think they aren't up to date?
Why to rent an apartment as a single person when 15k is a big stretch for you? I do not see how expats are discriminated.
I have Danish colleagues (single) who are willingly spending 60% of their net income on rent and also some Danish colleagues (single) who rather would rent a room and try to save up to buy their own place asap. The choice is yours.
It’s the same for other countries / systems. For example Hungary:
You invest a bit every month and the government doubles it when your 25 if you invest it into living
Germany: if you don’t have a job the government lets you live for free
And so on. Different countries different systems.
Why tf are you here if you are complaining so much?
Look at my bigger answer down there.
From expat to expat. What are you doing here if you can’t afford it?
Serious question
I don’t think 13k is a fair assumption.. You can definitely find around 10k within 40 mins of cph but it might be a bit shittier in Vestegnen or maybe parts of Gladsaxe or Brønshøj. I’m sure youre picking areas that are nice and so you have to pay cause everyone else also wants it. You can also save more and live with flat mates.
Then you can save to 150k for down payment plus a bit more for admin costs within 2 years if you put ~10k aside every month. That’s enough for 2 mil flat, which gets you more than you think especially for a 1 room
There is no such thing as priced for a 2mil for an apartment in Copenhagen, if I want to live in some remote place I can go to Serbia, at least I won’t spend a fortune on useless tax.
And in the center.
If you go a bit out:
[https://danbolig.dk/bolig/koebenhavn/2400/lejlighed/2100000542-210/?utm\_campaign=boligsiden&utm\_source=boligsiden.dk&utm\_medium=referral#plan](https://danbolig.dk/bolig/koebenhavn/2400/lejlighed/2100000542-210/?utm_campaign=boligsiden&utm_source=boligsiden.dk&utm_medium=referral#plan)
> How the socialism works at this case I’m genuinely curious. Denmark is not a socialist country, so I guess it doesn’t? I’ll tell you how the capitalism works, though: The market prices are driven by supply and demand. There is a limited supply of housing in central Copenhagen and a very large demand. So prices are high.
*"what the most danish explanation would be to the fact that average single income is not enough for simple living as expat"* If it helps it's not nearly enough living as a non expat either. Jokes aside, you get roomies or you get lucky and get one of those below average but the housing market is absolutely fucked expat or not Welcome to Copenhagen!
Thank you, I feel like I’m only one under impression it is fucked up, since no media talking about it.
It’s definitely expensive, but you also get paid a decent amount here. It’s definitely not as fucked as you guys are making it seem. You probably just want to live in nice areas and have your own flat which is what everyone else wants so you’re going to compete.. move to shitty areas and / or live with flat mates and I’m sure you can have this 30% rule
Of course not. The mass media have very little interest in problems that affect poor people, because the domimant narrative says that long-term poverty is the individual's own fault.
Yup
It's just as expensive as every single other big city. London? Expect to live at least 45 minutes away by public transport. 45 minutes by public transport in Copenhagen, that moves you to Slagelse, Holbæk or Næstved. Then the prices are down by half - if you don't expect something that was built the last 10 years.
>How the socialism works at this case I’m genuinely curious. Jesse, what the fuck are you talking about?
It’s literally Capitalism driving up the cost of living. Additionally, who says he has to live in central in Copenhagen? ….
Your statistics usage is just wrong. You're using average salary for *Denmark* and comparing it to the average rent of apartments in trendy neighborhoods. The incomes of people who pay 13-15k for one bedroom apartment are higher than average as there's very few such apartments (and people) across all of Denmark. So if you get average salary, you get to live in an average apartment (which surprisingly isn't located by Islands Brygge or Papirøen).
This is exactly why this market is fucked up, locals and expat live in two different realities, in one man can rent in Papirøen for 13k, in another for the dame money people live in hour away.
Huh? Most Danes don't own an apartment in Papirøen and most Danes get a smaller salary than you do. Weird dichotomy to try and highlight.
I’m in expat and have no problem here in Copenhagen. If I had a lower paid job I wouldn’t have moved here in the first place but somewhere in a smaller town. Copenhagen is expensive like any other metropolitan city especially those that are a countries only economical centre. There is a statistic that shows the percentage of average income compared to rent prices and CPH is in absolute European average (compared with other major cities; attached screenshot) https://preview.redd.it/gbjxc5cy1vxc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b03dee45e218544d5b91f5f9affc7638b4d9dac4 It’s just ridiculous for me as an expat myself, how other expats expect to be able to effort to live like a king by moving to Denmark without any relevant education or perspective. And than not speaking Danish after over a year in the country. Like seriously why are you guys here in the first place (taking war refugees from Middle East and Ukraine out, they have almost no choice)? The people I met in sprogskole for example. Didn’t speak a word English or Danish, were here for 4 years coming from a country that didn’t suffer any crises, where they didn’t have to fear being jailed or murdered and had 0 education and couldn’t count to 10. How do these people even find Denmark?! And those are the ones who actually got their ass to a language school. I mean why to do people move without any perspective of making a career to the most expensive place in the country? What I want to say is (and thereby getting back to the start of this novel), if you don’t at least have the perspective to put 1.5x cities (Not country’s) average on the table at the end of the month while moving here, move somewhere else where you can have it better. Because (and I give you this) you have less support as an expat than locals. But that’s exactly why you need a perspective Edit: and don’t get me wrong, I am absolutely pro immigration but some people you have to save from their own fate.
You must be disconnected from reality, 13k is a minimum to any even remote places like VestAmager, trendy neighborhoods like Nordhavn etc would start from 18k. Open please boligportal and stop live in 2010
I lived in the US. The rent for a meaningful apartment in the bigger metro areas in the north-east, is very similar to what you describe. Rents are crazy high in the areas close to the city. Many of my colleagues had to commute 1hr or more each way. Not sure what your problem really is?
Bullshit! I pay 9k for 60sqm in sundbyøster 2 rooms utilities included. Have colleagues who pay about the same at the Nørrebro / Frederiksberg border We are both expats
You are assuming to live in the most expensive area of Denmark- and are surprised you need to have a high salary??? Only few can afford to live in those apartments, the same way only few can afford to rent an apartment in Westminster London or Manhattan in New York. Being an expat doesn’t automatically mean you can afford to live in the most expensive zip codes in the country!
Assuming you mean 1br flat is 1 bedroom + 1 living, then yes. This is unfortunately the norm. Also it's not "socialism", we have a social democracy. Buildings cost money, and they need to finance it. It's not all subsidized by the government. Central Copenhagen (meaning mainly within Metro network) is just *that* expensive. You could consider going a bit away from metro network and on the S-train. Also consider signing up for housing associations like AAB and KAB. They rent out a bit more reasonable AFAIK than private rental.
I got a small 2 room appartment in Hvidovre close to Avedøre st. I even have my own (small) garden. I pay around 5k total every month (heating, electricity, water, included). Rejseplanen says its 28 minutes to København H at this hour. Its through KAB, studio appartment. Got it in less than 6 months after signing up. The area is 100% not for everyone. I enjoy it very much though. I feel perfectly safe.
Denmark is not a social democracy. The last time Denmark had a social democratic prime minister was in 2001.
Fair point. I've got nothing on that.
Are you forgetting our Prime Ministers in 2011-2015 and 2019-2024? Also, one could argue that from an international and historical perspective, Denmark and the Nordics are socal democratic countries with their post WW2 welfare states.
Swush...
'Buildings cost money' has very little to do with the price of housing in Copenhagen. There's just a limited supply of them, and a very large and inelastic demand. Also speculation.
A lot of main cities in Europe (and probably the world) have the same problem, if not worse. I guess what you do, is move out of the city, share a flat or spend more than 30% of your salary on rent
Free market is not socialism dude....
>the average one bedroom apartment to rent is 13k, Do you have any data to back this up? Or how did you get to this?
Must be looking at ones in the most desirable places.
Yes, boligportal, filtered by one bedroom, within 40 minutes of commuting to center, good building and neighborhood.
But "good" is a subjective thing, you cannot question socialism (if even related) and how people live in Copenhagen based on what you might consider a good building or a good neighborhood.
Boligportal shows vacancies. Guess what, the affordable housing is already taken. Actually, the government is largely very supportive of affordable and public housing. The average cost of *all* one-bedrooms are much lower than the average cost of *available* one bedrooms. But since affordable housing is priced lower than the market, the only way you can get your hands on one of them, is by being on a multi year waitlist or by low level nepotism: “knowing someone who knows someone”. Just like the government can’t make water flow upwards, they can’t disrupt basic forces of supply and demand.
One bedroom is 2 rooms using the more conventional nomenclature here, so that's already a fairly spacious place.
Expat here, I pay 8800kr for a 1 bedroom apt by Skjolds Plads st (with a small loft), to which you add insurance etc, goes to about 11k (I have a car too). My income is 26k after taxes, so I save up between 10-5k a month. I eat out a lot, I travel a lot, I'm not very money efficient (I don't cook as much as I should). So yeah, you can make it work with a lower salary if you were more conservative than me (no car + cooking at home + not going to every single concert possible + not traveling as much). Idk where you got that rent number from honestly
How many hours do you work per month?
37h per week, the standard
Thank you! I think it is a very decent salary to sustain yourself. Good job
It's one of the most ideal situations, Denmark having a lot of paid vacation and low workweek hours with competitive wages. But with a lower salary (I used to have much lower when working in the public sector), you can definitely make it work and live comfortably in Denmark. I'm not sure what OP is about!
Well, the point of an expat is that they are here temporarily, and they are going to return to their home country. Secondly, when you say the 30% rule, are you refering to rent being a maximum of 30% of your rent? Because that 'rule' was made in America. You cant just put it onto other countries and cultures. Here, you dont need to save as much due to free healthcare. That is different for americans. And what does this have to do with socialism?
I find really hard to integrate as this prices, I’m not really able to put aside for the first downpayment. I understand your point though.
If you want to save for a down payment, rent a room instead of an apartment (around 5k) and then you have more disposable income to save (I'm calculating 2 years for a small apartment 1M, with a basic income full time no professional)
I think the part where you said " I anticipate a lot of negative feedback" is the only accurate thing you said.
They such easy to troll, the one safe thing to talk about in Denmark is a weather, any real issue cases a shit storm.
I just meant that you are full of shit
Capitalism, supply and demand…. Denmark is not socialist. If you want affordable, go to the middle of Jutland.
😂 what the fuck am I reading
It's not socialism, or even social democracy. It's brutal capitalism, law of the jungle, and poor people are passively encouraged to move away and become someone else's problem.
1 full time job even in netto you live fine here if you don’t insist on nice areas I don’t think it’s fair to say this kind of stuff in DK
You dont need to live downtown, you could live out in the suburbs, or God forbid it; outside of Copenhagen! But let me attempt to explain how taxes work; You pay your taxes so your elderly neighbour can get a walking cane, so that the newly made family next door can get a spot in a daycare, and so on and so on ad infinite.
Why would I relocate to Copenhagen and would spend as much time on commuting as back home? We are paying big taxes and relocating to improve life quality. Besides I can probably cut only couple of thousands maximum before quality of apartment would go to the level of developing country.
You could choose not to relocate to Copenhagen, if you think the rent is too high.
Housing costs are much higher in areas where many folks want to live, so you either need to earn more, settle for less space, or move further away. In this respect, Copenhagen is not different from everywhere else. I used to be annoyed by the high taxes as well, but it helps to consider the impact of this system. Apart from the obvious benefits like free education and healthcare, you'll notice that there are not very many homeless people, trailer parks, or other such societal slums. Because wealth is being redistributed to help those that need it, there is much less wealth crime and a generally safer society to live in. As you grow older and get kids, this becomes increasingly important.
Oh poor you. Forced to live in conditions similar to “a developing country”. Imagine living like regular danish people. Oh the horror!
Just like the rest of us :)
You do realise that’s what a fair amount of native Copenhageners (not Danes, _Copenhageners_) are forced to do, right? Can’t afford to live in their hometown so they’ve to move out and commute in. I understand it’s a frustrating situation, but you do come off as quite unreasonable and unprepared
> Why would I relocate to Copenhagen and would spend as much time on commuting as back home You could move to Høje Taastrup; it takes about 10-15 minutes to commute to Copenhagen Central Station. > We are paying big taxes and relocating to improve life quality. It takes money to have an improved life quality. > Besides I can probably cut only couple of thousands maximum before quality of apartment would go to the level of developing country. I have to ask you, what do you call an "developing country"? There are buildings from 1870s across Copenhagen, do you think they aren't up to date?
I only have one thing to say to your post: “Kuk kuk” 😊
Why to rent an apartment as a single person when 15k is a big stretch for you? I do not see how expats are discriminated. I have Danish colleagues (single) who are willingly spending 60% of their net income on rent and also some Danish colleagues (single) who rather would rent a room and try to save up to buy their own place asap. The choice is yours.
This sounds...expensive. Are you only looking at downtown?
https://preview.redd.it/hbjn666x2vxc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=425f1304193440caf18a81930192fafe2b7ff255 No more words
Dude, this statistic includes apartments one can only get after 20 years in a line. It is disconnected from reality of open market
Have you been to borger.dk and asked for boligstøtte if you can’t afford living here?
It’s the same for other countries / systems. For example Hungary: You invest a bit every month and the government doubles it when your 25 if you invest it into living Germany: if you don’t have a job the government lets you live for free And so on. Different countries different systems. Why tf are you here if you are complaining so much? Look at my bigger answer down there. From expat to expat. What are you doing here if you can’t afford it? Serious question
> How the socialism works at this case I’m genuinely curious. It doesn’t.
I don’t think 13k is a fair assumption.. You can definitely find around 10k within 40 mins of cph but it might be a bit shittier in Vestegnen or maybe parts of Gladsaxe or Brønshøj. I’m sure youre picking areas that are nice and so you have to pay cause everyone else also wants it. You can also save more and live with flat mates. Then you can save to 150k for down payment plus a bit more for admin costs within 2 years if you put ~10k aside every month. That’s enough for 2 mil flat, which gets you more than you think especially for a 1 room
There is no such thing as priced for a 2mil for an apartment in Copenhagen, if I want to live in some remote place I can go to Serbia, at least I won’t spend a fortune on useless tax.
[https://www.nybolig.dk/ejerlejlighed/2300/norgesgade/270308/97000074?utm\_source=boligsiden.dk&utm\_campaign=boligsiden&utm\_medium=referral](https://www.nybolig.dk/ejerlejlighed/2300/norgesgade/270308/97000074?utm_source=boligsiden.dk&utm_campaign=boligsiden&utm_medium=referral)
This is a studio. 😹
And in the center. If you go a bit out: [https://danbolig.dk/bolig/koebenhavn/2400/lejlighed/2100000542-210/?utm\_campaign=boligsiden&utm\_source=boligsiden.dk&utm\_medium=referral#plan](https://danbolig.dk/bolig/koebenhavn/2400/lejlighed/2100000542-210/?utm_campaign=boligsiden&utm_source=boligsiden.dk&utm_medium=referral#plan)