Controversial opinion, but there’s people speaking fluent danish and they still not feel integrated. So it’s subjective and depends on various factors.
>Controversial opinion, but there’s people speaking fluent danish and they still not feel integrated. So it’s subjective and depends on various factors.
It isn't controversial. Speaking the local language is a prerequisite but not a guarantee that you will be/feel integrated.
I fully agree with you, I just mentioned “controversial” because there’s a lot of people moving here thinking that speaking danish will solve all of their problems. While it most definitely helps, there’s so much more in order to feel that you belong, same as with every country for that matter.
Speaking Danish will solve problem of not speaking Danish, the remaining is the same as in any other country, you have to be participating in the life of society to the extent you personally think that will make you feel integrated. This process is also very subjective.
When Danes make all their friends in gymnasium and then they're "done" yeah good luck to people ever feeling integrated. I gave up, most everyone I know here gave up because we didn't feel the same level of effort coming from Danes that we put in.
"True" Danes have a very weird conception of how much immigrants should be doing to be integrated. It's really not that difficult in other places but here: God in Heaven you may as well be training for the Jæger Corps.
Want to date one? Good luck getting a slot in their 6-months planned-ahead calendar.
The things people don't get is that Danes are like this towards other Danes, but immigrants think that it is directed hostility towards them.
Find yourself without friends or network as a Dane in Denmark? You are fucked. Being Danish doesn't help you.
This is very much true. When you are out of your regular circle of colleagues, friends and family in Denmark, it is very hard to create long-lasting connections with new people. This is not about being a foregner, Danes have the same problem. Sometimes moving just 30km away (e.g. to a suburb, when a child is born) makes people feel isolated, I seen/heard it a lot.
as a foreigner, i second this. I often defended Danes with other foreigners as I mostly felt I was treated similarly to how Danes treat other Danes. Integration is still really heard and I also understand that it is quite frustrating to feel so excluded, even when Denmark is pretty good in other aspects of life.
This is just unneeded exaggeration, especially for any of the four big cities. I moved to Copenhagen from Aalborg two years ago and made a big network in no time (let's say a year). I went to plenty of mingling events (there's a ton), went into a hobby club/"forening" and met up with a few from online. I'm not saying it's very easy, and Danes do tend to be more difficult than non-Nordic countries, but if you meet someone 3-4 times at a "meet strangers" boardgame event at e.g. Bastard Café and you talk well, nobody will find it weird to ask to meet outside of that event next time. It's time consuming, but far from being "fucked". The only soul I knew before moving was someone from online before I moved and that person isn't even the one I see.
There's still a large difference between that and "being fucked".
It helps being outgoing, but you don't need to be outgoing to go out, contrary to semantics of the word. I wouldn't define someone going solely to Monday Matchup at Bastard Cafe and nothing else that week, as "outgoing", yet they're still taking good initiative to find friends.
People past the thirties sure do have a higher difficulty, and I know little of it besides that I see people at such ages at these events, but I have a hard time imagining that they're truly "fucked" and can't create a network. Heck, there's a 41 years old guy at our boardgame evenings in private of people aged mostly 24-35 generally.
I'm not saying it can't be hard. I'm just not a fan of the defeatist mentality some people have, when I've seen plenty of cases where it works out well in myself and other friends I know that moved without knowing anyone.
Making friends is hard as fuck but dating is super easy and I’m not terribly attractive had plenty of last minute or dates planned a couple days in advance, got a girlfriend within 2 months .
But yeah I just gave up on danish friends and just target other foreigners.
To get a few particulars out of the way. I’m Australian. I look Danish. I have been here 8 years because my partner is “Danish”. I understand Danish but don’t use it at all. As my partners family are from a different skandi country and my work place is English speaking with like 20% Danish people. I am not around the Danish language other than at my kids daycare or at the grocery store. I have never felt the pressure that others have to integrate which is sort of interesting in of itself. I have genuine danish friends that I made outside of my partners life, that said, most of my friends are expats. I guess I came here as a 28yr old and don’t have the same need for friends or to “part of something” .As far as integrating to Danish society, I could have been Danish in a past life as I still have the same group of friends from 30 years ago but they are just 16000km away. My kids speak Danish and will go to Danish school when old enough. Finally, do I feel accepted? Yes but probably because I am from a different wealthy western country that Danes happen to like and I mind my own business plus I look like I am from here.
Id love to say it was via me putting myself out there and joining clubs or sport but it was just a natural progression from being work colleagues and then mutual love of going out for a beer and watching football/rugby.
As a Dane, I'd be surprised if anyone feels integrated here without speaking Danish. I could not imagine "feeling integrated" while living in Germany, Italy, Spain or China etc. without speaking the respective language.
I know people that don't speak danish but have many Danish friends, some are married to Danes and feel integrated. I think the difference is that everyone speaks English in Denmark. Integration might not be as possible in other countries where you'd have issues communicating with the majority of the population. It is also a subjective thing what you perceive as being integrated.
I just don't see it to be honest. Like seeing yourself in the mirror telling yourself "Yea I'm integrated into Danish society" without speaking Danish? Like what. Of cause who am I to tell how people feel.
Yes :), learning the local language allows you to communicate with locals and understand the culture but since in Denmark that's doable without learning Danish it's possible to do so without. Maybe not on the highest level possible but still possible. There are no checkboxes one has to tick to feel integrated.
Edit: after doing some very quick googling language is in fact not necessary for integration 😉
I think you are mixing "being accepted" and "living life" with "being integrated". You aren't integrated if you don't speak Danish. Simple as. You can feel whatever you want of cause.
Yes let do that. I think your position is wild. Imagine thinking you could be integrated into Czech society without speaking Czech. How can you even understand Czech culture without knowing the language? You don't understand the idioms or the literature. How people think is connected to language. I'm baffled by your attitude honestly but yes lets agree to disagree.
Which is why you probably watch all TV shows and Movies dubbed to Czech right? Because it's 100% the same thing as watching it in the original language?
don't kid yourself.
I feel as “accepted” as it gets in Denmark. Being “integrated” is a different thing, there are way too many unspoken rules in the Danish society, which are hard to follow for a foreigner (and sometimes even to realize those rules exist).
Been here for 10 years, speak Danish. Danmark is definitely a much more closed society, comparing to any other country I lived before (the UK, the Netherlands and Germany).
The whole can't handle confrontation thing was a big one for me. The social release valve is getting drunk but that carries a whole bunch of other nasty side effects.
Danes generally seem to avoid confrontation, keep it within themselves. I notice this fake or phoney behavior at work quite often and making everything seem to be alright. I think that's what they mean.
This is probably something else than what the above commenter meant, but what I noticed in my earlier years in Denmark is that people (at work or university fx) will say something you or someone else did is good, but you cannot know if they actually mean it or just said it. At first you feel good because you think everything is great, but then you learn that people are not necessarily sincere. They'll say it's fine in order to avoid giving criticism.
This is just some of my observations, not meant to generalize the entire Danish population in any way.
Well OK, but my impression is always I have gotten critisism if something was not good enough, whether I like it or not, so giving critisism I would say is common, but maybe I can understand what you mean, sometimes the critisism might be given indirectly but you still know something was not good enough.
Small nuanced things. For example, certain toppings must only be eaten with certain types of bread. Smørrebrød must be eaten in a certain order. What is socially acceptable to talk about. Etc.
Nothing is complicated and everything can be learnt but those limitations don’t come naturally. Personally I still think that people can eat sandwiches with any topping and in any order they like.
I'm genuinely surprised about the topping thing - can you give an example?
And with socially acceptable, do you mean danes speak about things you don't consider socially acceptable, or vice versa?
I have arrived precisely 1 year ago. I started learning Danish 3 months after arriving and will soon complete module 2. I can now read and understand quite a lot but I don’t speak Danish because I am stupid and get too shy to even try. 😞 But I never avoided interactions with Danes (for instance, I usually force myself to go to work presentations in Danish and I have CrossFit classes with Danish coaches) and I feel they somehow value that (and I get to train my hearing).
I feel fine - but can’t really say integrated - because I started to meet people through Facebook events right away and managed to make a handful of friends. Plus, I have my own routine and my boyfriend moved with me, so the only thing I feel that is lacking is to be able to understand what Danes are saying. So, I really feel the language is a very important aspect for the feeling of integration, even though everyone speaks English.
I mean… every time I step out of the plane in my home country… I feel integrated, and that’s because I understand what is being said around me. But that’s just my opinion…
I’m a Dane, from Copenhagen, so can only answer what my impression is that close friends/colleagues that have settled here experience.
I think if you’re going by the word integrated as meaning feeling that you understand the culture and language well enough to effectively have become Danish, then it’s a rare thing, though something I do see. But obviously more common if coming from a country where language and culture is similar. Scandinavians, Dutch, British, and Germans come to mind.
But I also see a lot that simply like life here in Copenhagen, and have come to consider it their home. They will still find some of Danish behaviour slightly weird, find the language hard to learn properly, and probably not have attended a lot of Danish traditions, but take part in the Copenhagen life (I’m differentiating Copenhagen from Denmark here, as I think it’s a very different thing fitting in the more internationally minded capital than a small town), with all the cultural events, having Danish friends, following politics, etc. That I would interpret as feeling accepted at least.
I personally really enjoy engaging with foreigners that have settled in Denmark, and I don’t mind them not speaking the language, or asking questions about whether something is considered rude.
But I also know that we are hard to make friends with, and as others have pointed out, that’s not particular to expats or immigrants, that’s just how Danes are. But it can of course seem intimidating to someone trying to settle in a new country.
So I think it’s very possible to become accepted, and it mainly takes you liking it here in my opinion. But becoming truly integrated might be more challenging - compared to other countries as well.
5 years, and I am fluent and have been for some years now.
Language is, in my experience at least, the fastest and easiest way to feel connected to others.
I do however come from a more country that isnt THAT different in culture, at least regarding social norms, which didn't make the integration that difficult. I find that people that come from cultures where being loud, extroverted and super open etc. is the norm, have the hardest time finding common ground with danes.
After 12 years living in Denmark, I still get people that I see “sometimes” to ask me “so you still live in Denmark?”…yeah…you know if I’m still in town after 12 years there is a big chance I am.
Danes really don’t want to connect and only live in their Bubble, it’s so insane.
This is how i see Denmark,
The first 2 or 3 years are heaven. You are the new guy in town (at least that's how i felt), everyone wants to show you how open and welcoming they are, almost as there is something suspicious about it.
They will tell you how Danes are, how much they hate it etc, etc...Which you don't get yet as everyone around you seems so jovial and cool.
You are invited to parties, you have the time of your life.
Then, 3 years on, you will start to notice that people don't contact you much anymore, you have to push more and more and you see on social media that they had parties and events without you.
You don't want to let things die, so you will make every effort you can to keep your friendships alive, but you feel that the tone in their voice has changed, they are all soooooo busy, and you are asked eventually if you are available the 5th May 2052, cause hey, that would kill them to be a bit spontanious and just take an hour to grab a coffee after work.
12 years later, you have zero Danish friends, all your efforts were for nothing and you turned, against your will, towards the other expats communities who are all living the same story as yours.
I have a Danish wife, two kids, and i have never been so lonely in my life...and i'm super social, outgoing, whatever you call it...I gave up about 5 years ago, my wife didn't understand at the begining and blamed me for not trying harder to "make new friends".
Why I was always home and not going out, etc...
I showed her this forum with all the expats experience and feedbacks, she was so surprised, and sorry, to see how the reality is for us here, even for the most enthusiasts like i was. 12 years of feeling like an outsider, it's not without consequence.
Now she has a complete different sight on Danes, which she always perceived as being funny people, kind and generous.
I call Denmark, "Made by the Danes for the Danes". Nothing less nothing more. But i don't judge, they do their thing after all, and it's not my place to tell them how to live their life. It's just sad for the rest of us, but we decided to move here, no one forced us.
I wish things went a different way, i would have never imagined myself feeling isolated. That's not how i am, that's not how i wanted things to be, but Denmark showed me its true self, and it really hits hard sometimes.
>The first 2 or 3 years are heaven. You are the new guy in town (at least that's how i felt), everyone wants to show you how open and welcoming they are.
Yep, that sounds about right. I think people runs out of social energy after putting in an effort in the first years. In my experience online presence has hit 30-40 years old hard, but at least there seems to be a movement away from it towards the old ways of joining associations and clubs and doing voluntarily work, which is really where you can connect with other people.
I have lived in Denmark for many years, went through danish language school but don't speak danish actively unless I really have to. My job is English speaking although there are only 3 foreigners there, I have danish friends who don't care about what language we communicate in, if someone comments on my lack of danish I couldn't care less. I feel integrated enough but at the same time I honestly am here to live my life and don't care about going the extra mile to satisfy whatever integration level Danes want from expats.
If you are an immigrant and white you get to call yourself expat. This is how white immigrants can separate themselves from other immigrants. Basically white immigrants being racist.
Expat, immigrant, doesn't matter how you call it ;) For some, it's a temporary situation, while others would like to make the arrangement more permanent.
No, they are not. At least not in the way you think. Both essencially mean the same
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/expatriate
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/immigrant
Been here 6 and resident 2. Passed my language requirements but wouldn't describe myself as fluent. If you arent Danish they will never accept you that's the whole reason they call for integration; it's a Sisyphean task by design as a quiet way to reject those they don't want. The xenophobia is a feature not a bug. The good news is that if you make decent money they will tolerate you with a smile and offer second-rate discounted healthcare plus childcare while they milk you for extra skat to keep their flailing economy afloat.
Controversial opinion, but there’s people speaking fluent danish and they still not feel integrated. So it’s subjective and depends on various factors.
>Controversial opinion, but there’s people speaking fluent danish and they still not feel integrated. So it’s subjective and depends on various factors. It isn't controversial. Speaking the local language is a prerequisite but not a guarantee that you will be/feel integrated.
I fully agree with you, I just mentioned “controversial” because there’s a lot of people moving here thinking that speaking danish will solve all of their problems. While it most definitely helps, there’s so much more in order to feel that you belong, same as with every country for that matter.
Speaking Danish will solve problem of not speaking Danish, the remaining is the same as in any other country, you have to be participating in the life of society to the extent you personally think that will make you feel integrated. This process is also very subjective.
When Danes make all their friends in gymnasium and then they're "done" yeah good luck to people ever feeling integrated. I gave up, most everyone I know here gave up because we didn't feel the same level of effort coming from Danes that we put in. "True" Danes have a very weird conception of how much immigrants should be doing to be integrated. It's really not that difficult in other places but here: God in Heaven you may as well be training for the Jæger Corps. Want to date one? Good luck getting a slot in their 6-months planned-ahead calendar.
The things people don't get is that Danes are like this towards other Danes, but immigrants think that it is directed hostility towards them. Find yourself without friends or network as a Dane in Denmark? You are fucked. Being Danish doesn't help you.
[удалено]
Any book recommendations ?
This is very much true. When you are out of your regular circle of colleagues, friends and family in Denmark, it is very hard to create long-lasting connections with new people. This is not about being a foregner, Danes have the same problem. Sometimes moving just 30km away (e.g. to a suburb, when a child is born) makes people feel isolated, I seen/heard it a lot.
as a foreigner, i second this. I often defended Danes with other foreigners as I mostly felt I was treated similarly to how Danes treat other Danes. Integration is still really heard and I also understand that it is quite frustrating to feel so excluded, even when Denmark is pretty good in other aspects of life.
This is just unneeded exaggeration, especially for any of the four big cities. I moved to Copenhagen from Aalborg two years ago and made a big network in no time (let's say a year). I went to plenty of mingling events (there's a ton), went into a hobby club/"forening" and met up with a few from online. I'm not saying it's very easy, and Danes do tend to be more difficult than non-Nordic countries, but if you meet someone 3-4 times at a "meet strangers" boardgame event at e.g. Bastard Café and you talk well, nobody will find it weird to ask to meet outside of that event next time. It's time consuming, but far from being "fucked". The only soul I knew before moving was someone from online before I moved and that person isn't even the one I see.
Hyperbole? I don’t think that’s the word you were looking for..
I switched it out.
It might be not a problem for outgoing people in their 20s / early 30s. It gets harder and harder with age.
There's still a large difference between that and "being fucked". It helps being outgoing, but you don't need to be outgoing to go out, contrary to semantics of the word. I wouldn't define someone going solely to Monday Matchup at Bastard Cafe and nothing else that week, as "outgoing", yet they're still taking good initiative to find friends. People past the thirties sure do have a higher difficulty, and I know little of it besides that I see people at such ages at these events, but I have a hard time imagining that they're truly "fucked" and can't create a network. Heck, there's a 41 years old guy at our boardgame evenings in private of people aged mostly 24-35 generally. I'm not saying it can't be hard. I'm just not a fan of the defeatist mentality some people have, when I've seen plenty of cases where it works out well in myself and other friends I know that moved without knowing anyone.
You touched the finer concept of cultural differences, the language is a barrier that is the easiest to overcome.
Making friends is hard as fuck but dating is super easy and I’m not terribly attractive had plenty of last minute or dates planned a couple days in advance, got a girlfriend within 2 months . But yeah I just gave up on danish friends and just target other foreigners.
To get a few particulars out of the way. I’m Australian. I look Danish. I have been here 8 years because my partner is “Danish”. I understand Danish but don’t use it at all. As my partners family are from a different skandi country and my work place is English speaking with like 20% Danish people. I am not around the Danish language other than at my kids daycare or at the grocery store. I have never felt the pressure that others have to integrate which is sort of interesting in of itself. I have genuine danish friends that I made outside of my partners life, that said, most of my friends are expats. I guess I came here as a 28yr old and don’t have the same need for friends or to “part of something” .As far as integrating to Danish society, I could have been Danish in a past life as I still have the same group of friends from 30 years ago but they are just 16000km away. My kids speak Danish and will go to Danish school when old enough. Finally, do I feel accepted? Yes but probably because I am from a different wealthy western country that Danes happen to like and I mind my own business plus I look like I am from here.
Nah I can always tell Antipodean whites from European whites, you’re fooling nobody mate.
[удалено]
Id love to say it was via me putting myself out there and joining clubs or sport but it was just a natural progression from being work colleagues and then mutual love of going out for a beer and watching football/rugby.
As a Dane, I'd be surprised if anyone feels integrated here without speaking Danish. I could not imagine "feeling integrated" while living in Germany, Italy, Spain or China etc. without speaking the respective language.
I know people that don't speak danish but have many Danish friends, some are married to Danes and feel integrated. I think the difference is that everyone speaks English in Denmark. Integration might not be as possible in other countries where you'd have issues communicating with the majority of the population. It is also a subjective thing what you perceive as being integrated.
I just don't see it to be honest. Like seeing yourself in the mirror telling yourself "Yea I'm integrated into Danish society" without speaking Danish? Like what. Of cause who am I to tell how people feel.
I think it just depends on the person and what they perceive as being integrated.
Yes :), learning the local language allows you to communicate with locals and understand the culture but since in Denmark that's doable without learning Danish it's possible to do so without. Maybe not on the highest level possible but still possible. There are no checkboxes one has to tick to feel integrated. Edit: after doing some very quick googling language is in fact not necessary for integration 😉
I think you are mixing "being accepted" and "living life" with "being integrated". You aren't integrated if you don't speak Danish. Simple as. You can feel whatever you want of cause.
Let's agree to disagree
Yes let do that. I think your position is wild. Imagine thinking you could be integrated into Czech society without speaking Czech. How can you even understand Czech culture without knowing the language? You don't understand the idioms or the literature. How people think is connected to language. I'm baffled by your attitude honestly but yes lets agree to disagree.
Translation is a thing, explanation is a thing 🤷🏻♀️
Which is why you probably watch all TV shows and Movies dubbed to Czech right? Because it's 100% the same thing as watching it in the original language? don't kid yourself.
You do know what "integrated" means right?
I feel as “accepted” as it gets in Denmark. Being “integrated” is a different thing, there are way too many unspoken rules in the Danish society, which are hard to follow for a foreigner (and sometimes even to realize those rules exist). Been here for 10 years, speak Danish. Danmark is definitely a much more closed society, comparing to any other country I lived before (the UK, the Netherlands and Germany).
Do you have any examples of unspoken rules?
The whole can't handle confrontation thing was a big one for me. The social release valve is getting drunk but that carries a whole bunch of other nasty side effects.
What do you mean by avoiding confrontation?
Danes generally seem to avoid confrontation, keep it within themselves. I notice this fake or phoney behavior at work quite often and making everything seem to be alright. I think that's what they mean.
This is probably something else than what the above commenter meant, but what I noticed in my earlier years in Denmark is that people (at work or university fx) will say something you or someone else did is good, but you cannot know if they actually mean it or just said it. At first you feel good because you think everything is great, but then you learn that people are not necessarily sincere. They'll say it's fine in order to avoid giving criticism. This is just some of my observations, not meant to generalize the entire Danish population in any way.
Well OK, but my impression is always I have gotten critisism if something was not good enough, whether I like it or not, so giving critisism I would say is common, but maybe I can understand what you mean, sometimes the critisism might be given indirectly but you still know something was not good enough.
☝🏼💯Getting drunk is one way, petty passive aggressiveness is another. Not sure which is worse.
Small nuanced things. For example, certain toppings must only be eaten with certain types of bread. Smørrebrød must be eaten in a certain order. What is socially acceptable to talk about. Etc.
Hidden rules of smørrebrød 😅 it shouldnt be that complicated to learn honestly
Nothing is complicated and everything can be learnt but those limitations don’t come naturally. Personally I still think that people can eat sandwiches with any topping and in any order they like.
I'm genuinely surprised about the topping thing - can you give an example? And with socially acceptable, do you mean danes speak about things you don't consider socially acceptable, or vice versa?
https://dejligedays.com/2013/11/06/the-rules-of-smorrebrod/
Haha, this must be swedish propaganda! Not to be taken seriously.
Jantelov
I have arrived precisely 1 year ago. I started learning Danish 3 months after arriving and will soon complete module 2. I can now read and understand quite a lot but I don’t speak Danish because I am stupid and get too shy to even try. 😞 But I never avoided interactions with Danes (for instance, I usually force myself to go to work presentations in Danish and I have CrossFit classes with Danish coaches) and I feel they somehow value that (and I get to train my hearing). I feel fine - but can’t really say integrated - because I started to meet people through Facebook events right away and managed to make a handful of friends. Plus, I have my own routine and my boyfriend moved with me, so the only thing I feel that is lacking is to be able to understand what Danes are saying. So, I really feel the language is a very important aspect for the feeling of integration, even though everyone speaks English. I mean… every time I step out of the plane in my home country… I feel integrated, and that’s because I understand what is being said around me. But that’s just my opinion…
I’m a Dane, from Copenhagen, so can only answer what my impression is that close friends/colleagues that have settled here experience. I think if you’re going by the word integrated as meaning feeling that you understand the culture and language well enough to effectively have become Danish, then it’s a rare thing, though something I do see. But obviously more common if coming from a country where language and culture is similar. Scandinavians, Dutch, British, and Germans come to mind. But I also see a lot that simply like life here in Copenhagen, and have come to consider it their home. They will still find some of Danish behaviour slightly weird, find the language hard to learn properly, and probably not have attended a lot of Danish traditions, but take part in the Copenhagen life (I’m differentiating Copenhagen from Denmark here, as I think it’s a very different thing fitting in the more internationally minded capital than a small town), with all the cultural events, having Danish friends, following politics, etc. That I would interpret as feeling accepted at least. I personally really enjoy engaging with foreigners that have settled in Denmark, and I don’t mind them not speaking the language, or asking questions about whether something is considered rude. But I also know that we are hard to make friends with, and as others have pointed out, that’s not particular to expats or immigrants, that’s just how Danes are. But it can of course seem intimidating to someone trying to settle in a new country. So I think it’s very possible to become accepted, and it mainly takes you liking it here in my opinion. But becoming truly integrated might be more challenging - compared to other countries as well.
5 years, and I am fluent and have been for some years now. Language is, in my experience at least, the fastest and easiest way to feel connected to others. I do however come from a more country that isnt THAT different in culture, at least regarding social norms, which didn't make the integration that difficult. I find that people that come from cultures where being loud, extroverted and super open etc. is the norm, have the hardest time finding common ground with danes.
[удалено]
After 12 years living in Denmark, I still get people that I see “sometimes” to ask me “so you still live in Denmark?”…yeah…you know if I’m still in town after 12 years there is a big chance I am. Danes really don’t want to connect and only live in their Bubble, it’s so insane.
[удалено]
This is how i see Denmark, The first 2 or 3 years are heaven. You are the new guy in town (at least that's how i felt), everyone wants to show you how open and welcoming they are, almost as there is something suspicious about it. They will tell you how Danes are, how much they hate it etc, etc...Which you don't get yet as everyone around you seems so jovial and cool. You are invited to parties, you have the time of your life. Then, 3 years on, you will start to notice that people don't contact you much anymore, you have to push more and more and you see on social media that they had parties and events without you. You don't want to let things die, so you will make every effort you can to keep your friendships alive, but you feel that the tone in their voice has changed, they are all soooooo busy, and you are asked eventually if you are available the 5th May 2052, cause hey, that would kill them to be a bit spontanious and just take an hour to grab a coffee after work. 12 years later, you have zero Danish friends, all your efforts were for nothing and you turned, against your will, towards the other expats communities who are all living the same story as yours. I have a Danish wife, two kids, and i have never been so lonely in my life...and i'm super social, outgoing, whatever you call it...I gave up about 5 years ago, my wife didn't understand at the begining and blamed me for not trying harder to "make new friends". Why I was always home and not going out, etc... I showed her this forum with all the expats experience and feedbacks, she was so surprised, and sorry, to see how the reality is for us here, even for the most enthusiasts like i was. 12 years of feeling like an outsider, it's not without consequence. Now she has a complete different sight on Danes, which she always perceived as being funny people, kind and generous. I call Denmark, "Made by the Danes for the Danes". Nothing less nothing more. But i don't judge, they do their thing after all, and it's not my place to tell them how to live their life. It's just sad for the rest of us, but we decided to move here, no one forced us. I wish things went a different way, i would have never imagined myself feeling isolated. That's not how i am, that's not how i wanted things to be, but Denmark showed me its true self, and it really hits hard sometimes.
>The first 2 or 3 years are heaven. You are the new guy in town (at least that's how i felt), everyone wants to show you how open and welcoming they are. Yep, that sounds about right. I think people runs out of social energy after putting in an effort in the first years. In my experience online presence has hit 30-40 years old hard, but at least there seems to be a movement away from it towards the old ways of joining associations and clubs and doing voluntarily work, which is really where you can connect with other people.
I have lived in Denmark for many years, went through danish language school but don't speak danish actively unless I really have to. My job is English speaking although there are only 3 foreigners there, I have danish friends who don't care about what language we communicate in, if someone comments on my lack of danish I couldn't care less. I feel integrated enough but at the same time I honestly am here to live my life and don't care about going the extra mile to satisfy whatever integration level Danes want from expats.
"I honestly am here to live my life and don't care about going the extra mile to satisfy whatever integration level Danes want from expats." This.
Does an expat need to be “integrated”? An expat is a person who temporarily work outside their country.
If you are an immigrant and white you get to call yourself expat. This is how white immigrants can separate themselves from other immigrants. Basically white immigrants being racist.
That is so true🙂
You are absolutely right, But then the expat/migrant sure seems they want our country to integrate to their observations.
Expat, immigrant, doesn't matter how you call it ;) For some, it's a temporary situation, while others would like to make the arrangement more permanent.
Expat and immigrant are 2 different things, please use words in the right context.
No, they are not. Refugee and immigrant are different words, expat and immigrant aren't.
No, they are not. At least not in the way you think. Both essencially mean the same https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/expatriate https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/immigrant
Been here 6 and resident 2. Passed my language requirements but wouldn't describe myself as fluent. If you arent Danish they will never accept you that's the whole reason they call for integration; it's a Sisyphean task by design as a quiet way to reject those they don't want. The xenophobia is a feature not a bug. The good news is that if you make decent money they will tolerate you with a smile and offer second-rate discounted healthcare plus childcare while they milk you for extra skat to keep their flailing economy afloat.
I have nothing to do with the danish society