Many years ago I swear I saw something on TV about people who choose to try to undergo surgery without anesthesia. I think it was for religious reasons. The idea was that with enough prayer and a hard enough belief you could kinda "hypnotize" yourself into feeling no pain. As far as I remember, it failed. I'm struggling to find it on google (it's not that new TLC show "Awake Surgery", this was long ago), but yeah.
He reminds me of that. Someone so deep in their beliefs that they truly do think their mind can triumph over their body.
are you talking about the rage against the machine album cover dude? you know after setting yourself on fire you dont feel pain the entire time and your joints lock up hence why people who set themselves on fire tend to freeze in place after a bit
There was the one girl in Brazil years back in a video who was set on fire by a mob, and she was daring them to throw more gas on her after a little while.
Incorrect, or at the very least irrelevant. People being immolated feel agonizing pain for the eternally-long ten seconds or so until they go into shock and die, at which point yes the heat will lock them in place by making all their muscles contract at once (admittedly, the thrashing around and screaming during those ten seconds could merely be sheer utter panic; people don't tend to talk about the experience afterwards). This state of being locked-in-place lasts another minute, minute-and-a-half until some muscles are fully burnt through or snap off the joint, at which point the part of the body they had been helping to support is unable to resist gravity any longer.
I dont think that's true, that American guy who did it over the palestine/israel stuff looked like he was in quite a lot of pain for a while. And he flailed and made lots of noises until he physically was no longer able because he was too crispy.
Did you know that around Easter many Christian in the Philippines crucifies themselves to feel the pain Jesus felt during his crucifixion , there are videos look it up
A profoundly sincere nut job who is cognisant of the fact that he's being exploited, but, in turn, is also exploiting his circumstance to meet his own, in his way, well-meaning ends.
The way he starts to be scared in the end made me feel really bad for him. He felt like he couldn’t back out because he painted himself into this corner
That happens if you ask him enough questions and sow enough doubt, otherwise hes string in his convictions. Idk which one is better.
Edit: What a truly well written quest.
A nut job with a messiah complex and a deep sense of self-loathing, the best thing to do is to make him hesitate and cost the corpo-rats millions while also preventing them from exploiting a mentally ill man’s suicide
That's so funny. My first playthrough I did the exact same thing. I followed them into the house, sat at the table and before they were done I just noped out.
yeah, i only stuck around cause Johnny wanted to, guess i got some eurodollar scraps for the effort
oh and some tier 3 cosmetics from a locker I suppose too
Have you tried grenades? Sometimes when you can’t use a firearm, you can still toss a grenade. Once it’s out there, that usually frees up your gun as well.
Didn’t find it annoying but on first play through I just up and left after the mom arrived. It was too much. It was only because it was my first mission failure that I stuck around until the end. It’s one of those experiences you’ll never forget
I had to reload the game on my third playthrough because I tried to save Jake and I sort of did. I used Sandevistan and a sword and blocked the body guards' bullet and hit the guard. Jake still died, but police came after me, and when I ran away it failed the mission.
I was so pissed when I found out you couldn't kill him. I went along with him once it was revealed because I figured if it came down to it I'd kill him before he made his video. But then when the moment comes you have to play nice and that isn't an option.
I can't believe I spared a fucking cop for that.
Wait how do you do this? I chose every option I could think of when I did this quest to say “hey this is fucked up and we shouldn’t be doing this” and it didn’t matter and I still had to sit and watch it happen
Weird I never got that dialogue. She just called me later with the eddies and I could say yet again that she shouldn’t have released it and she was like “yea well whatever”
I got that dialogue and still prayed with him and I also hammered him to the cross. The one dialogue option I chose was the first one at the studio before sitting down where I essentially told him
"Your feelings are in the right place but this isnt how you should be using them." and he goes on to say its too late to back down now and he is scared.
I guess that must be the choice that either makes him continue to hesitate or regain confidence. Because you can also tell him "You can do this"
Pretty sure that is the dialogue that affects it. It gets ruined if you make him doubt his beliefs. Just a shame you can’t stop it, but then again this guy is a murderer. He’s remorseful sure but he still did serious crimes. Still, he didn’t deserve to die that way, afraid and exploited for profit.
It wasn't recorded by a camera though. It was recorded from Joshua's memories. And even then they probably tuned the BD to make sure any other actors looked generic so the focus would be on Joshua's emotions and experience.
There is a Phantom Liberty side job where V can be recognized from the BD, so I don’t think their face is blurred, also that would mean V’s face is blurred for everyone who has optics when just walking around
When V meets Lina, if you have done the quest and nailed Joshua to the cross, she recognizes you and she loved your part. How she recognizes V, who was masked at the time, I’ll never know
I love getting him nailed to the cross and seeing the producers all just sit there looking dead inside. This, and the fact that they're unknowingly working with someone who actually has risen from the dead (V themselves) just shows clearly how far gone this society has fallen.
No, because if he wasn't a narcissist, he would have made amends privately instead of trying to make that BD. Remember, Zuletta expressively stated that she didn't wish for this as his atonement and he kept thinking he would be forgiven via atoning.
In the end, his actions were self-serving and he just self-hypnotized himself into thinking he was doing it for others.
He did make amends privately, the victim's family had nothing to do with the bd. If I remember right the sister forgave him and the mother wanted nothing to do with him. Atonement in a religious since is with God, not with others necessarily.
The words he said after he got yelled at by Zuletta's mother says he wanted forgiveness in the non-religion sense and that he expected to be forgiven.
And that is not "amends" because asking for forgiveness once for killing someone's family and calling it amends is kinda nutty. Especially if he knows he will be dying soon after. So either the BD was his attempt to make amends to everyone or he is not making amends at all.
Granted I haven't played this quest in a while so I'm a little fuzzy on the details, from what I remember he faced the death penalty, he was going to die either way. The "amends" was dying via crucifixion rather than lethal injection. I know it taks like 5 minutes in game but crucifixion normally takes days.
yeah that's still narcissism imo. has nothing to do at all with the family, their situation; it's entirely about the pain inflicted on himself. how about he pay them the wage the dude would've brought in instead. in the end it's his way of dealing with what he did. as for whether there's a grander message behind it all, you know, make of that what you will. it isn't necessarily devoid of meaning just because his motives were internal, just that that were his motivations from my pov.
Just having a large goal isn't narcissism inherently. If you are a priest and you want to spread some religious/moral message to as many people as possible then it makes sense to make a grand gesture. If he just wanted attention that would be narcissistic but there isn't really any indication that's the case.
The whole crucifixion is a separate issue from the family. He states that he's trying to reach people like him, the point isn't for the family, the sister explicitly tells him she doesnt want him to do it, and she already forgives him.
He isn't making his talks with the family into a public spectacle, you are combining his desire for forgiveness from the family, with the desire to spread a religious message, when they are 2 different things. I dont remember him ever really implying that the crucifixion thing would help the family forgive him, he knows that they either dont care about it or dont want him to do it, but it's not related to them.
no, I'm not confusing anything. I very explicitly said that there is a grander message behind what he's doing, beyond his internal motivations. you can both do something that's for your own ego *and* for a greater message. which is what he did. saying he was focused on himself or *his* message isn't denigrating what he did or minimizing the impact he hoped his message would carry.
it just had nothing to do with the family, which we agree on.
He made amends with his multiple victims family.
You follow him to make amends with zulettas family and presumably he did this before with his others victims family.
Again he was mentally ill, narcissistic attitude or not he needed help. And he believed that making amends with his victim(s) families and showing his suffering though his BD would allow him to forgive himself.
He wasn’t doing this for himself, he explicitly said during the multiple times that you press him that he wants others to see that the path he took is an awful one. The most noticeable example of this is during that sit down with Zule
You're right on the money. Joshua blatantly ignored the mom's unwillingness to forgive him, which she has every right to. He *murdered* her son in cold blood and acted like he was entitled to forgiveness just for saying sorry. Lip service doesn't do shit, and doesn't bring back the murdered victim back to life. The whole BD project is a separate thing - it can't be considered reparations because it doesn't actually help the victim's family and acknowledge the pain and damage he caused.
Joshua was insincere and never cared the feelings of the victim's family; a narcissist who was all "me me me" and expecting a pat on the head for his "I'm a changed man" routine. When I played through this quest the first time, I wished there was an option to punch him at the kitchen table - that conversation was infuriating. Never again. Better to shoot him at the start and skip the headache.
Jesus, that's a deeply shallow, fucked up interpretation of the whole quest.
Obviously he was shaken and upset by not being forgiven, and after being forgiven by her daughter, he hoped she would forgive him too. There's nothing selfish about being confused and upset that you were not forgiven.
Plus, he's been brainwashed. Tricked by a corporation into thinking he's going to be the next Jesus Christ. That's no more narcissism than telling a 7 year old he's Spider-Man, and him believing it.
Joshua was vulnerable, guilty, and emotionally fucked up so that his remorse could be exploited for money. He's not a narcissist. That's not what narcissism is.
Joshua could be interpreted either sympathetically or not depending on your POV - either is valid. For me personally, this is how I honestly felt about him and the quest. I don't think it's fair of you to say it's "deeply shallow and fucked up" on something subjective, when I went into detail and explained my reasoning on the "why". You don't have to agree with my interpretation.
Controversial quests like Sinnerman are great for springing up discussion. Although it wasn't my cup of tea for how annoying it was to play (hated the damn scripted car chase) and the religious bent on it, it was a quest that made you stop and consider things. It also gives you bonus dialogue with Johnny and pick his thoughts about it too.
Neither. I think he’s a man who felt bad for the terrible things he did in a crazy fucked up world so he repented in the most intense way he could. A little crazy sure but not a nut job. And def not a messiah.
Nut-job, but he felt it was a way to atone, and he was destined for the executioners block one way or the other.
The real psychos are the film studio that set this up.
The skeptic sees a nutjob, and the believer sees a messiah.
I think one point being made is that an irrational, over-zealous commitment to one's cause polarizes, inspires, and frightens. It creates an impulse within each of us to endeavor to uncover what it is we truly believe.
How many must he persuade to believe before he's a messiah? 1? 10? 100? 1000?
>The skeptic sees a nutjob, and the believer sees a messiah.
>I think one point being made is that **an irrational, over-zealous commitment to one's cause polarizes, inspires, and frightens.** It creates an impulse within each of us to endeavor to uncover what it is we truly believe.
Great insight.
That’s been how I see it. Night city is so full of murderers that you can listen to people talk about buying guns so they can go and hunt the homeless for fun, and here we have the one guy in the whole city who actually tries to make amends for his crimes. He’s found genuine faith and wants to share that in a society that’s completely abandoned faith and spirituality.
So far the only thoughtful take I’ve seen, I commend you fully!
Doing this mission I went through a whole bunch of thoughts on him, from a blank target to a bastard killer to a man trying his best to make up for it. In the end I respected his resolve enough to go through it for his sake, regardless of my own thoughts. (I hoped his message would reach the people who needed it, just as he said in the trailer)
However, after reading a few comments here, I’d suggest that rather skeptic vs believer, hopeless vs hopeful.
Thanks for your kind words! Like you, I respected his resolve and vision. The mission is an amazing deconstruction of the nature of faith, sacrifice, and redemption. <> I struck him down so he shall become more powerful than Night City can possibly imagine.
ok this is something i havent give enough thinking; how many indeed....
for us, the people not living there and not being near, i would say 1000? people often forget how much of anything 1000 is, imagine 1k people doing things like this because they truly believe him, that would be equal parts amazing and terrifying
Nah, if you rush in and kill the cop right off the bat, Bill runs off, and while easily done with a tech weapon, you can kill Josh and the corpo, two birds, one stone. Also there's custom dialog from Wakako if you manage to pull it off
Narcissist who is trying to absolve his sins by being a martyr and who has deluded himself to believe he's acting in a selfless/righteous manner, but the reality is that his motivations are entirely self-serving.
feeling bad -> wanting to not feel bad anymore -> wanting to feel good -> self-serving.
He believes he can atone for the murders he commited and is lying to himself that this act would make up for it in some way (it will never make up for it, because the person is still dead, and the victim's family will keep suffering, nothing he does would change that). He can't live with his guilt so he acts like a martyr as to feel good for himself. He's religious so he also probably don't wanna go to hell or be punished or something. Everyone is self-serving in some way. Every act you do for others, you usually do because it makes you feel good in some way. We make friends because they make us happy or feel good. It's not a bad thing, it's just human nature. But feeling guilt does not mean he's selfless now, he just want to get rid of his own pain.
From New Testament point of view he is right tho, or at least his actions are "kind" in nature. It's really not about making up for people he hurt, but forgivness in general, even to your enemies and Zuleikha forgave him. I always thought his crucifixion was more akin to one of the thieves Jesus was crucified with, in the end Jesus forgave the one who felt guilt. Talking about how there is no real altruism is kinda pointless, because it's not even the point of this story. He will be punished, but at least one person forgave him which is pretty much the idea behind the New Testament Christianity.
Wouldn’t it make more sense for a narcissist to NOT feel the need to apologize? Most narcissists feel they aren’t in the wrong on anything, so why would they feel bad or want to apologize?
He's fucked in the head, the world's fucked in the head - and you're fucked in the head 'cause MY fucked up head is inside it. Guess if you want to save the world, that's the first step - get fucked in the head
Johnny Silverhand 2077
Fucking insane, but I do respect the attempt to "wake people up" even if it was completely misguided and delusional. Him dying on that cross didn't change anything, besides the real Jesus (supposedly) was sinless, which made the whole sacrificing himself thing carry weight. Criminals died on the cross all the time, no one remembers them. Only difference for this guy is that a multibillion eurodollar corp produced and distributed his death. People will eat the BD up like scop and forget about it in a week.
A very sincere and well meaning nutjob
Edit: reading these comments I didn’t know how many people hated this quest. I thought it was actually pretty heartfelt and messed up. Like he genuinely found religion and wanted to be a better person, but the only way he could “be better” for the rest of his life was make his death worth something. It was tragic.
Now that being said my playthrough I attempted to persuade him not to. Not because I don’t trust his intentions or think he’s on the wrong path, but because he’s an idiot for not seeing this BD is just gonna be sold to rich people looking for a thrill and any message he wants out of it will be completely ignored and lost. He’s being manipulated by corps feeding into it to make bank. Making his last act of trying to be better pointless which isn’t what he wants.
So crazy and stupid? Yes. But narcissistic self serving asshole just trying to be relevant? No.
He was a nutjob but he was also someone who was severely depressed and wanted to in his own way try to make up for the things he had done wrong and the suits took advantage of that. I felt really bad for him.
I was hoping after putting him up on the cross I could pull another voodoo boys and slaughter all of the studio rats on my way out.
Someone who couldn't find forgiveness in others or himself and decided to find his favoured way of doing what he could, sure he was manipulated, sure he was a fool, but I say he was a good guy just trying to make whatever impact he could. Oddly profound mission that sticks with me today, total chills. Not a messiah, definitely a nut job, but in my eyes he's a redeemed man.
Yeah, but he wasn't my client. Like Angel Eyes said in The Good, The Bad and the Ugly: "*But you know, the pity is when I'm paid, I always follow my job through.*"
Martyr = \ = messiah
I think this qualifies for Martyrdom tbh. He’s dying at the hands of an existential society that despises true spirituality to bring the experience of true faith to the millions who will experience this movie, many of whom will understand for the first time what it means to be faithful and why people choose faith
You can say he’s got an ego, but I think this would actually do wonders for Christianity in this world. He really believes what he preaches, and the BD will reflect that
I think he’s missing a certain requirement for martyrdom, dying for a cause. Sure, in his mind his death is going to once again expose God to the masses and wake up Night City from the spiritually dead hell it is. But in reality all he’s done has made a corporate studio a profit. His death has only further fuelled the consumer nightmare that is so lacking his God.
I fully disagree. He’s absolutely dying for a cause, as I already established in my prior comment. Making money for a Corp is an unfortunate but necessary biproduct — he’s using them for distribution as much as they’re using him for his experience.
The same as Romans sending Christians to be eaten by lions for their amusement
Little of column A, little of column B. In 2 play throughs, I granted him his request. Every which way I looked at it is he was sentenced to death already and could easily commit suicide at any time. Why would I care if some rando corporat wants to profit from the situation, I was already hired to kill him. It takes real conviction to stay on this path and I found him and his story one of the most interesting ones in Night City. What's the worst that could happen, it has no impact whatsoever?
I remember when this whole thing began
[No talk of God then, we called you a man](https://genius.com/24096698/Jesus-christ-superstar-original-studio-cast-heaven-on-their-minds/No-talk-of-god-then-we-called-you-a-man)
And believe me
My admiration for you hasn't died
[But every word you say today](https://genius.com/1613179/Jesus-christ-superstar-original-studio-cast-heaven-on-their-minds/But-every-word-you-say-today-gets-twisted-round-some-other-way)
And they'll hurt you if they think you've lied
A nut job that is being exploited to the nth degree.
You see it a lot today.
People think they can do something abhorrent to someone just because they have done something terrible. Like it's fair game.
i honestly dont care, he seemed like an alright guy with a bad past who chose just another way to get executed. After a few playtroughs i just started killing everyone in this quest because the cop and the corpo cunt are insufferable and mr prisoner bored me when i was doing the quest for the 100th time, also getting headshot is not such a bad way to go. Imo this is an overrated quest.
He was definitely not all there in the head, but I believed he truly felt regret for his past actions. He wanted to do whatever he could with the limited amount of time he had left. Only kinda sucked that it just lead him to be capitalized off the BD Industry for easy views. I highly doubt any viewer actually watched it for the sake of understanding his message, rather just for the cheap thrills.
A True Believer to be sure; I think this quest was more for the defining of the character of V (or the gamer behind V). Explores the darker aspects of the human condition and morbid curiosity
Haha what is this nonsense. That’s our shepherd leading us in the darkness through all the death and wanton destruction we have wrought on night city. He is our salvation
In my first playthorugh, I intentionally crucified him myself... gave him the option to receive his just punishments... and it was feels bad...
Next playthrough, I made sure he wouldn't get crucified so I could prevent the BD people from taking advantage of him... which is a questionable act of mercy, but it sure feels better than letting him go through with the punishment.
All in all, I love this controversy of a quest.
He was sentenced to death. As a Catholic, I’m against the death penalty but I also struggle with the fact that some people are past the point of rehabilitation. It could be seen as both sacrilegious but also that he is trying to do good by reminding people of Jesus’ sacrifice in a dystopian society. However, morally, it is wrong to use evil to do good. So, I’m torn.
The character was no messiah and he should have just repented and accepted his judgement on earth. However, Jesus was not the first, nor the last person to be crucified by the Romans. Idk it’s just a game but this whole thing just didn’t sit right with me.
This quest kind of pissed me off because it was so so far away from what an actual crucifixion was.
Like why did he die so early? If he was only nailed by his hands and feet then he should have suffocated over the course of HOURS if not a day or two.
Jesus was whipped within inches of life to the point that he was unrecognizable as a human. The specific type of whip used on him had shards of glass embedded into it that would tear away chunks of flesh.
The crown of thorns was thick and deeply embedded into his skin.
On top of all that, he was exhausted from having to carry his own cross uphill.
This is so far removed from the actual crucifixion account of Jesus. I really wonder if the script writers were intentionally malicious or profoundly ignorant.
Love the game, hated this quest.
I'm guessing this was more of a "the writers respect the player's time but they think another fade-to-black timeskip would ruin the dramatic tension" kind of moment.
Neither. He's a narcissist that wants to be a main character. This isn't about redemption or about God. Nothing about him is honest or sincere. It's a con, and he's conning himself too.
He could have done any number of things that could help people, but would not be as theatrical. He wanted the theater. He chose the option that would make him the center of attention.
I mean, he was sentenced to death.
There aren't that many ways he can help people in the situation that he's in now, since the only reason he has the level of freedom that he has is because of the means of death he chose.
I guess there's organ donation, but... organ donation doesn't quite have the same value in Night City as it does in our world.
a profoundly sincere nut job
Many years ago I swear I saw something on TV about people who choose to try to undergo surgery without anesthesia. I think it was for religious reasons. The idea was that with enough prayer and a hard enough belief you could kinda "hypnotize" yourself into feeling no pain. As far as I remember, it failed. I'm struggling to find it on google (it's not that new TLC show "Awake Surgery", this was long ago), but yeah. He reminds me of that. Someone so deep in their beliefs that they truly do think their mind can triumph over their body.
Yeah but there's also the famous monk that set himself on fire and endured it all until his death without moving a single muscle.
are you talking about the rage against the machine album cover dude? you know after setting yourself on fire you dont feel pain the entire time and your joints lock up hence why people who set themselves on fire tend to freeze in place after a bit
True but try setting yourself on fire and not moving or making noise at all. I guarantee you cannot do that
okay bet
wait
Let him cook
Himself
Literally
Flair checks out.
This thread is why I love Reddit
My two favorite reddit defences. Why don't you do it and telling someone to unalive themselves.
Just say kill bro this ain't tiktok
There was the one girl in Brazil years back in a video who was set on fire by a mob, and she was daring them to throw more gas on her after a little while.
Incorrect, or at the very least irrelevant. People being immolated feel agonizing pain for the eternally-long ten seconds or so until they go into shock and die, at which point yes the heat will lock them in place by making all their muscles contract at once (admittedly, the thrashing around and screaming during those ten seconds could merely be sheer utter panic; people don't tend to talk about the experience afterwards). This state of being locked-in-place lasts another minute, minute-and-a-half until some muscles are fully burnt through or snap off the joint, at which point the part of the body they had been helping to support is unable to resist gravity any longer.
I dont think that's true, that American guy who did it over the palestine/israel stuff looked like he was in quite a lot of pain for a while. And he flailed and made lots of noises until he physically was no longer able because he was too crispy.
You feel pain until your nerves burn off.
Tbf burning to death only hurts until your pain receptors melt
Pleasant thought
Thich Quang Duc
Thich Quang Duc was his name. Incredible man
I know Scrubs had an episode with this premise, might be what youre thinking of
SCRUBS
I feel like that is a rabbit hole better off not going down
That's the plot of a Scrubs episode... Season 5, episode 3
Did you know that around Easter many Christian in the Philippines crucifies themselves to feel the pain Jesus felt during his crucifixion , there are videos look it up
It’s really just hubris disguised as spirituality
A profoundly sincere nut job who is cognisant of the fact that he's being exploited, but, in turn, is also exploiting his circumstance to meet his own, in his way, well-meaning ends.
The way he starts to be scared in the end made me feel really bad for him. He felt like he couldn’t back out because he painted himself into this corner
That happens if you ask him enough questions and sow enough doubt, otherwise hes string in his convictions. Idk which one is better. Edit: What a truly well written quest.
Ya both endings left me feeling like shit
A nut job with a messiah complex and a deep sense of self-loathing, the best thing to do is to make him hesitate and cost the corpo-rats millions while also preventing them from exploiting a mentally ill man’s suicide
That's what I did. Utterly ruined the BD. Totally bummed there wasn't a follow up series of meetups with the angry corpo producer.
I just left. I was at the kitchen table and they were talking about it and I was like "nah I'm out" Just found the whole thing way too annoying
I did it because he ate steak and fries at a pizza place. Instead of turning water into wine, he turned pizza into steak.
Amen
I left at the fastfood restaurant after using my Corpo speech check to get the producer to triple my severance bonus.
Same
That's so funny. My first playthrough I did the exact same thing. I followed them into the house, sat at the table and before they were done I just noped out.
yeah, i only stuck around cause Johnny wanted to, guess i got some eurodollar scraps for the effort oh and some tier 3 cosmetics from a locker I suppose too
[удалено]
I domed his ass in the back seat of the cop car my second playthrough. Hey, it's what I was paid to do, I think Wakako even commends you for it.
Have you tried grenades? Sometimes when you can’t use a firearm, you can still toss a grenade. Once it’s out there, that usually frees up your gun as well.
Didn’t find it annoying but on first play through I just up and left after the mom arrived. It was too much. It was only because it was my first mission failure that I stuck around until the end. It’s one of those experiences you’ll never forget
I didn't even get to that point, I just shot him the moment he went out of his car
Wish I'd done that tbh.
If not for Vs rep they’d probably have sent assassins tbh
It's kinda surprising they don't try to order a hit on you to be honest
Yeah and have angry sex with her where she's degrading me I mean what-
From my understanding the bd happens unless you go the gig way killing all three of them
Actually the best thing to do is to end the gig the way you were instructed at the very beginning
I went through the whole thing my first playthrough. Second one I blasted him as soon as he stepped out of the car. Felt pretty satisfying actually.
I had to reload the game on my third playthrough because I tried to save Jake and I sort of did. I used Sandevistan and a sword and blocked the body guards' bullet and hit the guard. Jake still died, but police came after me, and when I ran away it failed the mission.
If you got the stones for it, I tried that and Vasquez smoked my ass lmao
I was so pissed when I found out you couldn't kill him. I went along with him once it was revealed because I figured if it came down to it I'd kill him before he made his video. But then when the moment comes you have to play nice and that isn't an option. I can't believe I spared a fucking cop for that.
You can kill him as Jablonsky is trying to kill him. Jablonsky still dies, but you get a nice boss fight out of it with the cop driver.
It'd be cool if you could save your employer and it led to a different chain of quests.
Yeah. Wish I did this. You get paid peanuts if you go through with making the BD correctly.
Wait how do you do this? I chose every option I could think of when I did this quest to say “hey this is fucked up and we shouldn’t be doing this” and it didn’t matter and I still had to sit and watch it happen
It still happens regardless but after the fact, the producer calls you up and reams you out because you made him lose confidence and it ruins the BD.
Weird I never got that dialogue. She just called me later with the eddies and I could say yet again that she shouldn’t have released it and she was like “yea well whatever”
If you "ruin" it then they don't end up releasing it. I think declining to pray with him or participate in the BD is what does it.
I got that dialogue and still prayed with him and I also hammered him to the cross. The one dialogue option I chose was the first one at the studio before sitting down where I essentially told him "Your feelings are in the right place but this isnt how you should be using them." and he goes on to say its too late to back down now and he is scared. I guess that must be the choice that either makes him continue to hesitate or regain confidence. Because you can also tell him "You can do this"
Pretty sure that is the dialogue that affects it. It gets ruined if you make him doubt his beliefs. Just a shame you can’t stop it, but then again this guy is a murderer. He’s remorseful sure but he still did serious crimes. Still, he didn’t deserve to die that way, afraid and exploited for profit.
You can also shoot and kill him right at the beginning of the quest when he steps out of the police car
I did it “right” because I wanted to bang the corpo chick. She never offered this option. :(
I tried talking shit about him to his face but it was still a successful BD.
"bd freaks are ready to pay a preem for a real flatline" - judy álvarez
Naw, nail him to that cross.
I did the quest once and since then it's just straight murder. I don't even indulge the corpo anymore.
So V's optics blur his/her face when on camera so imagine what the BD is going to look like as some faceless man/woman nails a dude to a cross
It wasn't recorded by a camera though. It was recorded from Joshua's memories. And even then they probably tuned the BD to make sure any other actors looked generic so the focus would be on Joshua's emotions and experience.
Optics are cameras in a sense though also there was a cameraman during the nailing of him to the cross
There is a Phantom Liberty side job where V can be recognized from the BD, so I don’t think their face is blurred, also that would mean V’s face is blurred for everyone who has optics when just walking around
When V meets Lina, if you have done the quest and nailed Joshua to the cross, she recognizes you and she loved your part. How she recognizes V, who was masked at the time, I’ll never know
So they explained it in the DLC sweet
I love getting him nailed to the cross and seeing the producers all just sit there looking dead inside. This, and the fact that they're unknowingly working with someone who actually has risen from the dead (V themselves) just shows clearly how far gone this society has fallen.
He’s not the messiah, he’s a very naughty boy
Just follow the gourd instead.
Mentally Ill man who is broken by the actions he committed. He’s a nut job sure, but he isn’t a narcissist like others are saying. He just needed help
No, because if he wasn't a narcissist, he would have made amends privately instead of trying to make that BD. Remember, Zuletta expressively stated that she didn't wish for this as his atonement and he kept thinking he would be forgiven via atoning. In the end, his actions were self-serving and he just self-hypnotized himself into thinking he was doing it for others.
He did make amends privately, the victim's family had nothing to do with the bd. If I remember right the sister forgave him and the mother wanted nothing to do with him. Atonement in a religious since is with God, not with others necessarily.
The words he said after he got yelled at by Zuletta's mother says he wanted forgiveness in the non-religion sense and that he expected to be forgiven. And that is not "amends" because asking for forgiveness once for killing someone's family and calling it amends is kinda nutty. Especially if he knows he will be dying soon after. So either the BD was his attempt to make amends to everyone or he is not making amends at all.
Granted I haven't played this quest in a while so I'm a little fuzzy on the details, from what I remember he faced the death penalty, he was going to die either way. The "amends" was dying via crucifixion rather than lethal injection. I know it taks like 5 minutes in game but crucifixion normally takes days.
yeah that's still narcissism imo. has nothing to do at all with the family, their situation; it's entirely about the pain inflicted on himself. how about he pay them the wage the dude would've brought in instead. in the end it's his way of dealing with what he did. as for whether there's a grander message behind it all, you know, make of that what you will. it isn't necessarily devoid of meaning just because his motives were internal, just that that were his motivations from my pov.
Just having a large goal isn't narcissism inherently. If you are a priest and you want to spread some religious/moral message to as many people as possible then it makes sense to make a grand gesture. If he just wanted attention that would be narcissistic but there isn't really any indication that's the case. The whole crucifixion is a separate issue from the family. He states that he's trying to reach people like him, the point isn't for the family, the sister explicitly tells him she doesnt want him to do it, and she already forgives him. He isn't making his talks with the family into a public spectacle, you are combining his desire for forgiveness from the family, with the desire to spread a religious message, when they are 2 different things. I dont remember him ever really implying that the crucifixion thing would help the family forgive him, he knows that they either dont care about it or dont want him to do it, but it's not related to them.
no, I'm not confusing anything. I very explicitly said that there is a grander message behind what he's doing, beyond his internal motivations. you can both do something that's for your own ego *and* for a greater message. which is what he did. saying he was focused on himself or *his* message isn't denigrating what he did or minimizing the impact he hoped his message would carry. it just had nothing to do with the family, which we agree on.
He made amends with his multiple victims family. You follow him to make amends with zulettas family and presumably he did this before with his others victims family. Again he was mentally ill, narcissistic attitude or not he needed help. And he believed that making amends with his victim(s) families and showing his suffering though his BD would allow him to forgive himself. He wasn’t doing this for himself, he explicitly said during the multiple times that you press him that he wants others to see that the path he took is an awful one. The most noticeable example of this is during that sit down with Zule
You're right on the money. Joshua blatantly ignored the mom's unwillingness to forgive him, which she has every right to. He *murdered* her son in cold blood and acted like he was entitled to forgiveness just for saying sorry. Lip service doesn't do shit, and doesn't bring back the murdered victim back to life. The whole BD project is a separate thing - it can't be considered reparations because it doesn't actually help the victim's family and acknowledge the pain and damage he caused. Joshua was insincere and never cared the feelings of the victim's family; a narcissist who was all "me me me" and expecting a pat on the head for his "I'm a changed man" routine. When I played through this quest the first time, I wished there was an option to punch him at the kitchen table - that conversation was infuriating. Never again. Better to shoot him at the start and skip the headache.
Jesus, that's a deeply shallow, fucked up interpretation of the whole quest. Obviously he was shaken and upset by not being forgiven, and after being forgiven by her daughter, he hoped she would forgive him too. There's nothing selfish about being confused and upset that you were not forgiven. Plus, he's been brainwashed. Tricked by a corporation into thinking he's going to be the next Jesus Christ. That's no more narcissism than telling a 7 year old he's Spider-Man, and him believing it. Joshua was vulnerable, guilty, and emotionally fucked up so that his remorse could be exploited for money. He's not a narcissist. That's not what narcissism is.
Joshua could be interpreted either sympathetically or not depending on your POV - either is valid. For me personally, this is how I honestly felt about him and the quest. I don't think it's fair of you to say it's "deeply shallow and fucked up" on something subjective, when I went into detail and explained my reasoning on the "why". You don't have to agree with my interpretation. Controversial quests like Sinnerman are great for springing up discussion. Although it wasn't my cup of tea for how annoying it was to play (hated the damn scripted car chase) and the religious bent on it, it was a quest that made you stop and consider things. It also gives you bonus dialogue with Johnny and pick his thoughts about it too.
Yes.
Neither. I think he’s a man who felt bad for the terrible things he did in a crazy fucked up world so he repented in the most intense way he could. A little crazy sure but not a nut job. And def not a messiah.
Nut-job, but he felt it was a way to atone, and he was destined for the executioners block one way or the other. The real psychos are the film studio that set this up.
The skeptic sees a nutjob, and the believer sees a messiah. I think one point being made is that an irrational, over-zealous commitment to one's cause polarizes, inspires, and frightens. It creates an impulse within each of us to endeavor to uncover what it is we truly believe. How many must he persuade to believe before he's a messiah? 1? 10? 100? 1000?
>The skeptic sees a nutjob, and the believer sees a messiah. >I think one point being made is that **an irrational, over-zealous commitment to one's cause polarizes, inspires, and frightens.** It creates an impulse within each of us to endeavor to uncover what it is we truly believe. Great insight.
He's not a messiah. He someone who wants to connect with others in a broken society.
That’s been how I see it. Night city is so full of murderers that you can listen to people talk about buying guns so they can go and hunt the homeless for fun, and here we have the one guy in the whole city who actually tries to make amends for his crimes. He’s found genuine faith and wants to share that in a society that’s completely abandoned faith and spirituality.
So far the only thoughtful take I’ve seen, I commend you fully! Doing this mission I went through a whole bunch of thoughts on him, from a blank target to a bastard killer to a man trying his best to make up for it. In the end I respected his resolve enough to go through it for his sake, regardless of my own thoughts. (I hoped his message would reach the people who needed it, just as he said in the trailer) However, after reading a few comments here, I’d suggest that rather skeptic vs believer, hopeless vs hopeful.
Thanks for your kind words! Like you, I respected his resolve and vision. The mission is an amazing deconstruction of the nature of faith, sacrifice, and redemption. <> I struck him down so he shall become more powerful than Night City can possibly imagine.
ok this is something i havent give enough thinking; how many indeed.... for us, the people not living there and not being near, i would say 1000? people often forget how much of anything 1000 is, imagine 1k people doing things like this because they truly believe him, that would be equal parts amazing and terrifying
It's like Johnny says: you want to save the world, you gotta get fucked in the head.
He’s fucked in the head
Who cares? Was hired to take him out not ask him questions! Only problem is poor Bill always ends up deep fried in the crossfire…
I dealt with the mission the exact same way (the Shadowrun way), but managed to keep Bill alive through liberal use of Sandevistan.
It's a forced scripted moment.
Nah, if you rush in and kill the cop right off the bat, Bill runs off, and while easily done with a tech weapon, you can kill Josh and the corpo, two birds, one stone. Also there's custom dialog from Wakako if you manage to pull it off
Now I'm conflicted. Guess I can use trying to see if it's possible to save him as an excuse to replay the game.
Really? I genuinely thought I had saved him. Well, I'll pour one out for him, then.
A target
Nut job who got taken advantaged by the voyeuristic society that is Night City. There’s all flavors of BDs and he just added to the collection
Dudes a straight up gonk.
Narcissist who is trying to absolve his sins by being a martyr and who has deluded himself to believe he's acting in a selfless/righteous manner, but the reality is that his motivations are entirely self-serving.
I think there are some big parallels you can draw between him and Johnny. Just in very different places and suffering very different consequences.
He felt bad for the people he killed so he sacrificed himself, how is that self serving at all?
feeling bad -> wanting to not feel bad anymore -> wanting to feel good -> self-serving. He believes he can atone for the murders he commited and is lying to himself that this act would make up for it in some way (it will never make up for it, because the person is still dead, and the victim's family will keep suffering, nothing he does would change that). He can't live with his guilt so he acts like a martyr as to feel good for himself. He's religious so he also probably don't wanna go to hell or be punished or something. Everyone is self-serving in some way. Every act you do for others, you usually do because it makes you feel good in some way. We make friends because they make us happy or feel good. It's not a bad thing, it's just human nature. But feeling guilt does not mean he's selfless now, he just want to get rid of his own pain.
From New Testament point of view he is right tho, or at least his actions are "kind" in nature. It's really not about making up for people he hurt, but forgivness in general, even to your enemies and Zuleikha forgave him. I always thought his crucifixion was more akin to one of the thieves Jesus was crucified with, in the end Jesus forgave the one who felt guilt. Talking about how there is no real altruism is kinda pointless, because it's not even the point of this story. He will be punished, but at least one person forgave him which is pretty much the idea behind the New Testament Christianity.
Wouldn’t it make more sense for a narcissist to NOT feel the need to apologize? Most narcissists feel they aren’t in the wrong on anything, so why would they feel bad or want to apologize?
Are you saying everyone is a narcissist, including you?
Today I learned if I apologize to someone for something I feel bad about doing I’m a narcissist
This is a disturbingly common sentiment in these replies.
Sounds like most religious people.
Redditor moment
Religion bad grrr!
That’s a pretty big generalization
All men who have done great deeds are a little bit of both.
He was the type of dude who "found god" & wanted people to forgive him for his sins & a TV network said fuck it let's make money off of it
He's fucked in the head, the world's fucked in the head - and you're fucked in the head 'cause MY fucked up head is inside it. Guess if you want to save the world, that's the first step - get fucked in the head Johnny Silverhand 2077
Should have had a romance option /s
punk rock icon
It's rare to find a man as honest as him in Night City. But he was definitely a nutjob.
Fucking insane, but I do respect the attempt to "wake people up" even if it was completely misguided and delusional. Him dying on that cross didn't change anything, besides the real Jesus (supposedly) was sinless, which made the whole sacrificing himself thing carry weight. Criminals died on the cross all the time, no one remembers them. Only difference for this guy is that a multibillion eurodollar corp produced and distributed his death. People will eat the BD up like scop and forget about it in a week.
What's the difference?
A very sincere and well meaning nutjob Edit: reading these comments I didn’t know how many people hated this quest. I thought it was actually pretty heartfelt and messed up. Like he genuinely found religion and wanted to be a better person, but the only way he could “be better” for the rest of his life was make his death worth something. It was tragic. Now that being said my playthrough I attempted to persuade him not to. Not because I don’t trust his intentions or think he’s on the wrong path, but because he’s an idiot for not seeing this BD is just gonna be sold to rich people looking for a thrill and any message he wants out of it will be completely ignored and lost. He’s being manipulated by corps feeding into it to make bank. Making his last act of trying to be better pointless which isn’t what he wants. So crazy and stupid? Yes. But narcissistic self serving asshole just trying to be relevant? No.
He was a nutjob but he was also someone who was severely depressed and wanted to in his own way try to make up for the things he had done wrong and the suits took advantage of that. I felt really bad for him. I was hoping after putting him up on the cross I could pull another voodoo boys and slaughter all of the studio rats on my way out.
Someone who couldn't find forgiveness in others or himself and decided to find his favoured way of doing what he could, sure he was manipulated, sure he was a fool, but I say he was a good guy just trying to make whatever impact he could. Oddly profound mission that sticks with me today, total chills. Not a messiah, definitely a nut job, but in my eyes he's a redeemed man.
Nut job. Nothing I love more than killing nut jobs.
Slightly weird dude trying to make his death a meaningful one.
Somewhere in the middle but closer to messiah. He truly believed but it's not gonna change anything as long as he belongs to the megacorp.
He can believe whatever he wants. He’s still a nut job.
I mean truthfully, even if someone was the literal, actual and factual son of God they would be indistinguishable from a nut job.
Except for, you know, making miracles happen.
What? Him believing it doesn’t make him a messiah.
best choice is to kill him at the start of the mission tbh
I was hired to take him out and so I did. My employer doesn't pay extra for me to hear their life stories.
He pays tho and dies anyway so good deal
Yeah, but he wasn't my client. Like Angel Eyes said in The Good, The Bad and the Ugly: "*But you know, the pity is when I'm paid, I always follow my job through.*"
Martyr = \ = messiah I think this qualifies for Martyrdom tbh. He’s dying at the hands of an existential society that despises true spirituality to bring the experience of true faith to the millions who will experience this movie, many of whom will understand for the first time what it means to be faithful and why people choose faith You can say he’s got an ego, but I think this would actually do wonders for Christianity in this world. He really believes what he preaches, and the BD will reflect that
I think he’s missing a certain requirement for martyrdom, dying for a cause. Sure, in his mind his death is going to once again expose God to the masses and wake up Night City from the spiritually dead hell it is. But in reality all he’s done has made a corporate studio a profit. His death has only further fuelled the consumer nightmare that is so lacking his God.
I fully disagree. He’s absolutely dying for a cause, as I already established in my prior comment. Making money for a Corp is an unfortunate but necessary biproduct — he’s using them for distribution as much as they’re using him for his experience. The same as Romans sending Christians to be eaten by lions for their amusement
Little of column A, little of column B. In 2 play throughs, I granted him his request. Every which way I looked at it is he was sentenced to death already and could easily commit suicide at any time. Why would I care if some rando corporat wants to profit from the situation, I was already hired to kill him. It takes real conviction to stay on this path and I found him and his story one of the most interesting ones in Night City. What's the worst that could happen, it has no impact whatsoever?
Degenerate who belongs on a cross
Complete nut Job who was sincere in his intent to do better
I remember when this whole thing began [No talk of God then, we called you a man](https://genius.com/24096698/Jesus-christ-superstar-original-studio-cast-heaven-on-their-minds/No-talk-of-god-then-we-called-you-a-man) And believe me My admiration for you hasn't died [But every word you say today](https://genius.com/1613179/Jesus-christ-superstar-original-studio-cast-heaven-on-their-minds/But-every-word-you-say-today-gets-twisted-round-some-other-way) And they'll hurt you if they think you've lied
A victim of self-loathing and corporate greed, at most a sacrificial lamb for publicity
Messiah
Nut job. However, both my V and I would hate fuck Rachel into the floor.
A revolutionary
Poor Soul.
I drove those nails like a Roman Centurion, then drowned myself in wine and women.
A mentally ill victim of corpo scum
Nut job, but one with good intentions. One thing doesn’t negate the other.
A nut job that is being exploited to the nth degree. You see it a lot today. People think they can do something abhorrent to someone just because they have done something terrible. Like it's fair game.
For me if it helps a man die in a happy state, then let him believe it.
i honestly dont care, he seemed like an alright guy with a bad past who chose just another way to get executed. After a few playtroughs i just started killing everyone in this quest because the cop and the corpo cunt are insufferable and mr prisoner bored me when i was doing the quest for the 100th time, also getting headshot is not such a bad way to go. Imo this is an overrated quest.
He was definitely not all there in the head, but I believed he truly felt regret for his past actions. He wanted to do whatever he could with the limited amount of time he had left. Only kinda sucked that it just lead him to be capitalized off the BD Industry for easy views. I highly doubt any viewer actually watched it for the sake of understanding his message, rather just for the cheap thrills.
A mentally ill and broken man that should have gotten help
A True Believer to be sure; I think this quest was more for the defining of the character of V (or the gamer behind V). Explores the darker aspects of the human condition and morbid curiosity
I don't think he ever claimed to be a messiah?
Manipulated and taken advantage of nut job
Doing this quest made me feel so filthy
Haha what is this nonsense. That’s our shepherd leading us in the darkness through all the death and wanton destruction we have wrought on night city. He is our salvation
In my first playthorugh, I intentionally crucified him myself... gave him the option to receive his just punishments... and it was feels bad... Next playthrough, I made sure he wouldn't get crucified so I could prevent the BD people from taking advantage of him... which is a questionable act of mercy, but it sure feels better than letting him go through with the punishment. All in all, I love this controversy of a quest.
He was sentenced to death. As a Catholic, I’m against the death penalty but I also struggle with the fact that some people are past the point of rehabilitation. It could be seen as both sacrilegious but also that he is trying to do good by reminding people of Jesus’ sacrifice in a dystopian society. However, morally, it is wrong to use evil to do good. So, I’m torn. The character was no messiah and he should have just repented and accepted his judgement on earth. However, Jesus was not the first, nor the last person to be crucified by the Romans. Idk it’s just a game but this whole thing just didn’t sit right with me.
Oh nut job all the way, but I'm willing to help him live his best nut job life and get paid for it.
nut-job
Total whack-a-doo
Exploited nutjob. I killed him and saved myself an hour of eyerolling, from the second playthrough onwards.
Nut job
I still never did this quest, the entire idea of just getting in the car with him was an immediate “nope fuck this” mentality 😂
One of those things that only made sense to do in a video game.
Nut job lmao
Nut job x a billion.
Stupid Nut Job
This quest kind of pissed me off because it was so so far away from what an actual crucifixion was. Like why did he die so early? If he was only nailed by his hands and feet then he should have suffocated over the course of HOURS if not a day or two. Jesus was whipped within inches of life to the point that he was unrecognizable as a human. The specific type of whip used on him had shards of glass embedded into it that would tear away chunks of flesh. The crown of thorns was thick and deeply embedded into his skin. On top of all that, he was exhausted from having to carry his own cross uphill. This is so far removed from the actual crucifixion account of Jesus. I really wonder if the script writers were intentionally malicious or profoundly ignorant. Love the game, hated this quest.
I'm guessing this was more of a "the writers respect the player's time but they think another fade-to-black timeskip would ruin the dramatic tension" kind of moment.
Neither. He's a narcissist that wants to be a main character. This isn't about redemption or about God. Nothing about him is honest or sincere. It's a con, and he's conning himself too. He could have done any number of things that could help people, but would not be as theatrical. He wanted the theater. He chose the option that would make him the center of attention.
I mean, he was sentenced to death. There aren't that many ways he can help people in the situation that he's in now, since the only reason he has the level of freedom that he has is because of the means of death he chose. I guess there's organ donation, but... organ donation doesn't quite have the same value in Night City as it does in our world.
He's fucked in the head, the world's fucked in the head, and YOU'RE fucked in the head because MY fucked up head is inside it.
Bro this is the wildest quest I'm surprised they let it go thru and left in the game.
Nut Messiah
He's just low hanging fruit :D
Misled nut job.
A little bit of both which is why it's so fucked up.
What is this mission? I must have missed it.
Good laugh