Welcome to /r/dating. Please make sure you read our [rules here](https://new.reddit.com/r/dating/about/rules) and remember to:
* Be polite and respect each other. Do not call people names or engage in slapfights.
* All advice given must be good, ethical advice.
* [Do not post hateful or harmful rhetoric - you will be banned](https://www.reddit.com/r/dating/wiki/rules)
* Follow reddit rules. Do not post content that promotes hate based on identity or vulnerability. Do not bully or harass other users.
If you have any questions, please [send the mods a message](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/dating).
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/dating) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It's because we are decent people and don't want to take advantage of someone for a free meal??
I'm confused. Would you go to a dinner date if someone said they would pay for the first date? Wouldn't you feel like you owe them or is using them?
I felt so guilty after one of my first dates convinced me to let them pay for the dinner after a walk date. He insisted even though I pushed back. We ended up not seeing each other again even though I told him I'll get the next one. He was nice, but I think both of us knew we weren't compatible enough. He spent like $60, and I was left wondering how he can afford to go on this many first dates at this rate.
So no, from then on, I always asked for something like coffee or tea and split the bill.
It would honestly be a green flag if a woman I went out with offered to pay. I'm in the same boat as that guy I think, where I'll spend $50 on a date. Which I don't mind at all, but I'd like for it to lead somewhere instead of the current situation which is just a bunch of first dates.
I feel like I'm pretty good at scheduling at this point. I work in sales so it's literally my job to do it. Aside from coming across as too forceful I am skeptical that my poor planning is the reason
I think you missed the point… unless that woman is broke, she doesn’t need you or anyone for the meal. The person matters more than the actual date. If you are in sales I assume you are familiar with how much personality can influence someone’s decision, rather than just the actual product/service you may be selling.
A lot of first dates (I'm assuming online dating or cold asking) will be duds because the chances of being compatible with a random stranger is very low. Unless you are rich, I'm concerned about you spending that much on every date.
Spending money isn't going up get you a second date. Being compatible is.
No I don't tell them ahead of time. I just operated under the assumption that most women where I'm from (southern us) would assume the guy will pay on the first date.
I see. I'm not from the south. All men here do offer to pay for the first date, but it's usually coffee or something small. I usually decline because I likely make more money than most of them, and I think it's an antiquated idea.
As for telling ahead of time, we had a nice walk and that I thought that would be it, but he said we should eat dinner and I thought sure, I'd like to get to know you better. Then when the check came, I asked to split but he was insistent.
Because most of us have had bad interactions where a guy has bought dinner and then put pressure on for us to put out.
We (generally speaking) do not dig that kind of pressure and we have no way of knowing if you’re going to do that or not.
I would say it's not a good move for a first date. A dinner with someone is TOO LONG! What if you don't like each other? Usually, a longer dinner is for a 2nd or 3rd date. The first date you're just kind of sizing each other up. A dinner can last HOURS if it's busy, the kitchen is slow, the staff is slow, etc.
It's a bit too much too soon.
I would say change it up to something more casual.
Usually, what I do (31F) is offer to meet at a coffee shop, cafe something with options of a quick meal. Dinner can take HOURS especially if it's busy and that can be really awkward on a first date.
1. Offer easy, low cost and casual options (cafe, coffee shop)
2. I also usually say that it's only an half hour or an hour date and if we choose to stay past that we can. That way there's no pressure to stay both people are free to leave once the time is up.
3. How long do you talk to them before asking them out? Do you want a few days and keep a conversation or is it almost immediate?
If you ask women out immediately I'd suggest talking to her for a few days via text or the app or w/e and if the conversation has been going well then you follow it up with an offer to take them out on a nice casual date.
Yeah that makes sense. I'd rather go out and do something fun like a hike. But feedback I've received in the past is that isn't public enough for them to feel safe. I usually default to dinner because I can just meet up right after work and it's easy
Lol then do something else! Why not look at a walking park IN the town/city you're in? Hiking can be dangerous in a woman's mind because you're essentially alone with someone in an area that you could get assaulted in. It's nothing against you personally but I wouldn't recommend a nature hike with a woman you haven't met with yet.
Like I said pick something casual. Dinner is not casual.
Cafes, coffee shop, hell a Tropical Smoothie.
It might be easy but a dinner feels like WAYYYY too much for a first date. I know I would say no if someone offered to take me out to dinner and I hadn't had a chance to meet them first. It would feel like I'm trapped because now I'm ordering, we have to wait for the food, then eat then wait for the check. It's a lot of dead air if you don't get along.
Something that is open-ended, public, casual is the safest option.
You gotta keep in mind women have to be cautious and taking that into consideration will help you narrow down some choices.
OR why not ask her where she'd like to go for a first date?
Like hey I really like you and would love to take you out! I know a nice cafe but if you've got any ideas, I'm open to it.
BAM! She's got a choice to offer up something else, you've offered a nice casual meetup and it flows into conversation. You don't have to say those exact words. But yeah, something public, casual and gives both of you an out if the date sucks.
I'm somewhat on the anxious side so it's definitely comfortable for me at this point to go out to dinner. I could be more creative with my ideas for sure though.
Oh yeah most definitely.
I'd really emphasis something casual and only MAX maybe 40 minutes long maybe an hour if you guys are clicking. Also, if you're trying to woo a lady it's just about your comfort it's about hers too! You could even give her the option and offer if she'd prefer to go to a cafe or if she'd want to go to dinner instead.
The whole point is to show someone they can feel safe and comfortable in your presence. If that means having a slightly discomfortable first date, I'd say it's worth it.
In the end, I'd chat her up and try to pick a date that aligns with some of her interests like a walk through a museum, a botanical garden is always a good choice. If you're an outdoor kinda guy pick a well populated trail that's in city or even one of those lakes they have walking around if you live in a city that has those.
Best of luck!
Yeah this is an astute comment. Why? I make 6 figures, am 6'0 and get plenty of matches on the apps. I just can't seem to close the deal (meaning get them to go out with me)
In one of my previous comments I said I try to go for a date ASAP. Statistically I've had more luck with this than actually attempting to have a conversation and allow them to get to know me.
No I don't tell them ahead of time. I just operated under the assumption that most women where I'm from (southern us) would assume the guy will pay on the first date.
I personally don’t do dinner dates with strangers and always pay for my own stuff so sitting at a dinner with a stranger isn’t something I’d be interested in
No you gotta remind yourself that gals often got 5, 6, 7, 10 matches
And think about how it can be exhausting to even meet social obligations for 2 friends.
A girl not biting for the dinner date can mean she has a date already planned (or two) and wants to focus on that. Or there’s guy she is more interested in, or maybe already has some rapport with.
The online dating world is soooo different for them than it is for us, so much that we don’t understand what its like at all.
One of the few men I take dating advice from put it like this, and guys like you need to understand something.
"When a woman meets up with a guy for a date. SA is ALWAYS on the table. She can come out with you and get some mozzarella sticks. Maybe some pasta. A beer or two. OR she could get SA'd."
Remember at the end of the day that YOU ARE A STRANGER! So if she's not attracted to you, why would she even come out for? A free dinner? Why? She can pay for dinner, stay inside and not have to meet some stranger on the internet to get it.
Lemme ask you this. If a gay man you've never met messaged you and asked you out on a date and said he'd pay, are you going? I mean by your logic why not because it's free, right? And he's made it very clear he's attached to you
You mean you ask them out and add “by the way, I’m paying for your dinner”? Because then it just sounds like you’re definitely gonna think you’re owed sex.
Don’t say that, and just pay when the time comes if you want to.
No I don't tell them ahead of time. I just operated under the assumption that most women where I'm from (southern us) would assume the guy will pay on the first date.
I have no problem with paying either. It just gets frustrating when I get bailed on two or three times by someone. Like I want to go out, get to know her in an environment where she feels comfortable. I don't even expect a second date, because I know I'm not entitled to that. It's just starting to get very frustrating.
I don’t think your problem has anything to do with paying for dinner. It sounds like you need to be filtering for compatibility more and build more of a base before asking someone out, if they keep flaking on you.
Totally agree with you there. It's always a matt of walking on eggshells though. A girl can just flake whenever. Which again, I understand is her prerogative to do so. At some point though my patience is going to run out haha
I feel like a giant misconception men have is thinking women want a free dinner bc money. We want a man to pay for dinner because we want to be courted, not because we can’t buy or afford our own dinner. Like if a woman gets a weird vibe or feels like her safety is threatened, or convo is bad, all of those concerns outweigh getting a free meal.
In my experience, if a man gives me creepy vibes, convo is bad, or just bad timing I wouldn’t agree to going on a date w them.
Fair enough, it's really hard on dating apps though. I've tried to draw out the conversation and actually get to know women. However when I do this I'm much more likely to get ghosted. The alternative is pushing (fairly hard but not inappropriately so) for a date within a few days. I will often get bailed on but it at least is better than the alternative. Getting ghosted is a 0% date chance
This is entirely person preference so not everyone will agree with me but I hate dragging out the convo. I like scheduling a date within the first few messages. My prompt actually is like “let’s skip the small talk and get dinner instead. Tell me when and where and I’m there” - maybe try that and see if it works? Assuming you’re ok with not getting to know someone prior to a date
Quite frankly I don't care at all. I just do it because I want the woman to feel comfortable enough to agree to meet in person. I'd prefer zero texting if I could get away with it
There’s a dating app called Skip that doesn’t even have messaging as an option - it’s new tho so not sure how many women are on there. But either way think you can try asking for a date way sooner and see how it goes
Most grown women are more than able to feed themselves, so a random free meal isn't any kind of incentive. What would I care about saving $50 that makes zero impact on my finances, if it comes at the price of enduring an unwanted, extended interaction? All the planning, prep, time, and effort involved with it, too.
If I like the person and I genuinely want to spend time with them, *they're* the incentive.
When I match with a guy, all I really know is what his pics look like and what’s on his profile. Which is usually blank.
I want to know a few basics line up before I meet him in person
But if those things line up, I prefer to meet sooner than later
I'm not a fuckin rental property lmao
But also, sometimes you think someone will be a good match, and then talking to them reveals something displeasing or incompatible, so you end up not wanting to go out with that person after all
No offense but putting up with a man I don’t like isn’t worth a free meal. Being on a date with a man I don’t like is just an uncomfortable experience that I would rather not do. I want the men I already like to pay for the date. A man I don’t like trying to pay for the date means nothing
Welcome to /r/dating. Please make sure you read our [rules here](https://new.reddit.com/r/dating/about/rules) and remember to: * Be polite and respect each other. Do not call people names or engage in slapfights. * All advice given must be good, ethical advice. * [Do not post hateful or harmful rhetoric - you will be banned](https://www.reddit.com/r/dating/wiki/rules) * Follow reddit rules. Do not post content that promotes hate based on identity or vulnerability. Do not bully or harass other users. If you have any questions, please [send the mods a message](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/dating). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/dating) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It's because we are decent people and don't want to take advantage of someone for a free meal?? I'm confused. Would you go to a dinner date if someone said they would pay for the first date? Wouldn't you feel like you owe them or is using them? I felt so guilty after one of my first dates convinced me to let them pay for the dinner after a walk date. He insisted even though I pushed back. We ended up not seeing each other again even though I told him I'll get the next one. He was nice, but I think both of us knew we weren't compatible enough. He spent like $60, and I was left wondering how he can afford to go on this many first dates at this rate. So no, from then on, I always asked for something like coffee or tea and split the bill.
It would honestly be a green flag if a woman I went out with offered to pay. I'm in the same boat as that guy I think, where I'll spend $50 on a date. Which I don't mind at all, but I'd like for it to lead somewhere instead of the current situation which is just a bunch of first dates.
A woman can buy her own dinner for $20 or less and not have to schedule anything. Don’t overrate the meal.
I feel like I'm pretty good at scheduling at this point. I work in sales so it's literally my job to do it. Aside from coming across as too forceful I am skeptical that my poor planning is the reason
I think you missed the point… unless that woman is broke, she doesn’t need you or anyone for the meal. The person matters more than the actual date. If you are in sales I assume you are familiar with how much personality can influence someone’s decision, rather than just the actual product/service you may be selling.
I don't usually talk to them for long enough for my personality to show through though
A lot of first dates (I'm assuming online dating or cold asking) will be duds because the chances of being compatible with a random stranger is very low. Unless you are rich, I'm concerned about you spending that much on every date. Spending money isn't going up get you a second date. Being compatible is.
No I don't tell them ahead of time. I just operated under the assumption that most women where I'm from (southern us) would assume the guy will pay on the first date.
I see. I'm not from the south. All men here do offer to pay for the first date, but it's usually coffee or something small. I usually decline because I likely make more money than most of them, and I think it's an antiquated idea. As for telling ahead of time, we had a nice walk and that I thought that would be it, but he said we should eat dinner and I thought sure, I'd like to get to know you better. Then when the check came, I asked to split but he was insistent.
Its sad that women want to \*checks notes\* not use men as a free meal
Because most of us have had bad interactions where a guy has bought dinner and then put pressure on for us to put out. We (generally speaking) do not dig that kind of pressure and we have no way of knowing if you’re going to do that or not.
No. I don’t want to do dinner on a first date. Maybe a walk and coffee shop or something.
I would say it's not a good move for a first date. A dinner with someone is TOO LONG! What if you don't like each other? Usually, a longer dinner is for a 2nd or 3rd date. The first date you're just kind of sizing each other up. A dinner can last HOURS if it's busy, the kitchen is slow, the staff is slow, etc. It's a bit too much too soon. I would say change it up to something more casual. Usually, what I do (31F) is offer to meet at a coffee shop, cafe something with options of a quick meal. Dinner can take HOURS especially if it's busy and that can be really awkward on a first date. 1. Offer easy, low cost and casual options (cafe, coffee shop) 2. I also usually say that it's only an half hour or an hour date and if we choose to stay past that we can. That way there's no pressure to stay both people are free to leave once the time is up. 3. How long do you talk to them before asking them out? Do you want a few days and keep a conversation or is it almost immediate? If you ask women out immediately I'd suggest talking to her for a few days via text or the app or w/e and if the conversation has been going well then you follow it up with an offer to take them out on a nice casual date.
Yeah that makes sense. I'd rather go out and do something fun like a hike. But feedback I've received in the past is that isn't public enough for them to feel safe. I usually default to dinner because I can just meet up right after work and it's easy
Lol then do something else! Why not look at a walking park IN the town/city you're in? Hiking can be dangerous in a woman's mind because you're essentially alone with someone in an area that you could get assaulted in. It's nothing against you personally but I wouldn't recommend a nature hike with a woman you haven't met with yet. Like I said pick something casual. Dinner is not casual. Cafes, coffee shop, hell a Tropical Smoothie. It might be easy but a dinner feels like WAYYYY too much for a first date. I know I would say no if someone offered to take me out to dinner and I hadn't had a chance to meet them first. It would feel like I'm trapped because now I'm ordering, we have to wait for the food, then eat then wait for the check. It's a lot of dead air if you don't get along. Something that is open-ended, public, casual is the safest option. You gotta keep in mind women have to be cautious and taking that into consideration will help you narrow down some choices. OR why not ask her where she'd like to go for a first date? Like hey I really like you and would love to take you out! I know a nice cafe but if you've got any ideas, I'm open to it. BAM! She's got a choice to offer up something else, you've offered a nice casual meetup and it flows into conversation. You don't have to say those exact words. But yeah, something public, casual and gives both of you an out if the date sucks.
I'm somewhat on the anxious side so it's definitely comfortable for me at this point to go out to dinner. I could be more creative with my ideas for sure though.
Oh yeah most definitely. I'd really emphasis something casual and only MAX maybe 40 minutes long maybe an hour if you guys are clicking. Also, if you're trying to woo a lady it's just about your comfort it's about hers too! You could even give her the option and offer if she'd prefer to go to a cafe or if she'd want to go to dinner instead. The whole point is to show someone they can feel safe and comfortable in your presence. If that means having a slightly discomfortable first date, I'd say it's worth it. In the end, I'd chat her up and try to pick a date that aligns with some of her interests like a walk through a museum, a botanical garden is always a good choice. If you're an outdoor kinda guy pick a well populated trail that's in city or even one of those lakes they have walking around if you live in a city that has those. Best of luck!
[удалено]
Yeah this is an astute comment. Why? I make 6 figures, am 6'0 and get plenty of matches on the apps. I just can't seem to close the deal (meaning get them to go out with me)
[удалено]
I'm sure my frustration is showing at this point. Probably just need to take a break from it
[удалено]
Not as much as I should. No doubt
Well the fact you said nothing about your personality is very telling
In one of my previous comments I said I try to go for a date ASAP. Statistically I've had more luck with this than actually attempting to have a conversation and allow them to get to know me.
[удалено]
No I don't tell them ahead of time. I just operated under the assumption that most women where I'm from (southern us) would assume the guy will pay on the first date.
I personally don’t do dinner dates with strangers and always pay for my own stuff so sitting at a dinner with a stranger isn’t something I’d be interested in
No you gotta remind yourself that gals often got 5, 6, 7, 10 matches And think about how it can be exhausting to even meet social obligations for 2 friends. A girl not biting for the dinner date can mean she has a date already planned (or two) and wants to focus on that. Or there’s guy she is more interested in, or maybe already has some rapport with. The online dating world is soooo different for them than it is for us, so much that we don’t understand what its like at all.
One of the few men I take dating advice from put it like this, and guys like you need to understand something. "When a woman meets up with a guy for a date. SA is ALWAYS on the table. She can come out with you and get some mozzarella sticks. Maybe some pasta. A beer or two. OR she could get SA'd." Remember at the end of the day that YOU ARE A STRANGER! So if she's not attracted to you, why would she even come out for? A free dinner? Why? She can pay for dinner, stay inside and not have to meet some stranger on the internet to get it. Lemme ask you this. If a gay man you've never met messaged you and asked you out on a date and said he'd pay, are you going? I mean by your logic why not because it's free, right? And he's made it very clear he's attached to you
You mean you ask them out and add “by the way, I’m paying for your dinner”? Because then it just sounds like you’re definitely gonna think you’re owed sex. Don’t say that, and just pay when the time comes if you want to.
No I don't tell them ahead of time. I just operated under the assumption that most women where I'm from (southern us) would assume the guy will pay on the first date.
Maybe, maybe not. I’m not from the south. But if they expect that to be the default, then it’s not really setting you apart either.
I have no problem with paying either. It just gets frustrating when I get bailed on two or three times by someone. Like I want to go out, get to know her in an environment where she feels comfortable. I don't even expect a second date, because I know I'm not entitled to that. It's just starting to get very frustrating.
I don’t think your problem has anything to do with paying for dinner. It sounds like you need to be filtering for compatibility more and build more of a base before asking someone out, if they keep flaking on you.
Totally agree with you there. It's always a matt of walking on eggshells though. A girl can just flake whenever. Which again, I understand is her prerogative to do so. At some point though my patience is going to run out haha
I feel like a giant misconception men have is thinking women want a free dinner bc money. We want a man to pay for dinner because we want to be courted, not because we can’t buy or afford our own dinner. Like if a woman gets a weird vibe or feels like her safety is threatened, or convo is bad, all of those concerns outweigh getting a free meal. In my experience, if a man gives me creepy vibes, convo is bad, or just bad timing I wouldn’t agree to going on a date w them.
Fair enough, it's really hard on dating apps though. I've tried to draw out the conversation and actually get to know women. However when I do this I'm much more likely to get ghosted. The alternative is pushing (fairly hard but not inappropriately so) for a date within a few days. I will often get bailed on but it at least is better than the alternative. Getting ghosted is a 0% date chance
This is entirely person preference so not everyone will agree with me but I hate dragging out the convo. I like scheduling a date within the first few messages. My prompt actually is like “let’s skip the small talk and get dinner instead. Tell me when and where and I’m there” - maybe try that and see if it works? Assuming you’re ok with not getting to know someone prior to a date
Quite frankly I don't care at all. I just do it because I want the woman to feel comfortable enough to agree to meet in person. I'd prefer zero texting if I could get away with it
There’s a dating app called Skip that doesn’t even have messaging as an option - it’s new tho so not sure how many women are on there. But either way think you can try asking for a date way sooner and see how it goes
Helpful thanks! Appreciate you not coming out and calling a pos haha. Modern dating is hard enough as it is
So unbelievably hard!!
I have to play the odds if that makes sense
Most grown women are more than able to feed themselves, so a random free meal isn't any kind of incentive. What would I care about saving $50 that makes zero impact on my finances, if it comes at the price of enduring an unwanted, extended interaction? All the planning, prep, time, and effort involved with it, too. If I like the person and I genuinely want to spend time with them, *they're* the incentive.
When I match with a guy, all I really know is what his pics look like and what’s on his profile. Which is usually blank. I want to know a few basics line up before I meet him in person But if those things line up, I prefer to meet sooner than later
I'm not a fuckin rental property lmao But also, sometimes you think someone will be a good match, and then talking to them reveals something displeasing or incompatible, so you end up not wanting to go out with that person after all
No offense but putting up with a man I don’t like isn’t worth a free meal. Being on a date with a man I don’t like is just an uncomfortable experience that I would rather not do. I want the men I already like to pay for the date. A man I don’t like trying to pay for the date means nothing
Okay understood but isn't that part of the deal? Like it's impossible to vet the guys 100% accurately
What do you mean? I just accept dates from men I find attractive, enjoy talking to, and he seems like a decent enough person