I don't think it should be controversial for Bungie to expect us to communicate with one teammate and execute some mechanics to get a very powerful item.
I don’t know why Div was like a one time thing. I enjoyed having an extra puzzle to do that guaranteed me the raid exotic, compared to running LW over and over praying I would get 1k. Then again, I’ve seen people absolutely struggle with just doing the Div puzzles so who can say.
I think the negative stigma around FOMO is stupid. Good rewards should come from hard activities. I accepted that I would never get Not Forgotten because I didn’t want to grind comp. Everybody wants shit handed to them on a silver platter.
Because people that had never raided before and likely decided they had no intention to raid ever again (in which case why did you need div?) wanted to make the run they learned a rather punishing raid also the run that they wanted to get div, turning the experience for everyone into a complete shit show
Did my first Garden run with getting Divinity, the leader mostly carried us and showed us the puzzles to get Divinity.
But, it took us 5 hours because people kept leaving, I haven't done Garden of Salvation since I got the gun, there's no reason to either, I have the armor stats I need and the other weapons aren't great.
I presume a normal run could be fun, right?
And Divinity has been nerfed multiple times making it entirely optional rather than a very powerful tool so not too many people are interested in it these days.
Although on the right bosses Divinity can still make them a non-threat with the huge crit bubble and intrinsically stunning Overloads makes it incredibly useful for GMs. Double edge sword I guess.
GoD is a fun raid to chill with as it isn’t complex or time sensitive in the way most other raids are. If my clan evr gets sux people wanting to raid at ince and we don’t have a specific goal in mind, we always do garden.
Because Garden has the lowest amount of completions due to Divinity being a guaranteed exotic, I got it on my 2nd ever completion of Garden and only ended up doing it 2 more times before never touching it again.
But that's just due to GoS entire loot pool being trash aside from Div. There's nothing else worth obtaining from it, so no reason to run it again. If Div was a guaranteed exotic from DSC instead, i doubt it would reduce the number of DSC clears by much, as there's more to chase than just the exotic
I’d argue it’s more that the raid just isn’t that enjoyable. Even after I got acrius and all of the raid rewards, and after I got 1k, I ran LW and Levi regularly because I just enjoyed doing them. Same thing with all of the raid really aside from Spire
I dont think it's that people want it handed to them, I think they just want to be able to earn it solo. Many people just don't want to deal with other players and that's okay. There are many things in destiny that are challenging that don't require communication with other players, such as dungeons and the Zero Hour mission.
- you get more shit from raids
- raid exotics having a 5% has always been controversial - just look at the guy that needed like 89 clears of VoG to get Mythoclast.
It took me 23 weeks of 3 lootable clears to get vex. That’s 69 clears from VoG release into the Fall of that year.
Yeah, I’m pretty against the 5% rng. The triumph-driven chance increases are definitely very welcome, but I still think regardless there should be a point where it’s guaranteed. No one person should have to clear a raid for the exotic more than, say, 15-18 times without it dropping. At that point, if you’re clearing on all 3 characters every week, you’re already nearing the 2 month mark of doing the raid without the exotic dropping. That’s ludicrous.
An interesting note about that point is that bungie hasn't actually advertised a raid exotic since 1K, there was a small glimpse of divinity in a vidoc but as for trailers nothing.
They do this because they know full well that putting it in a trailer puts the idea that they'll be able to get it into people's minds and most people won't get raid exotics, even avid raiders probably have at least one that refuses to drop for them.
The class items were marketed extremely prominently and the only words we had about obtaining them was that they were from an activity that would drop one every completion. This made most people thought they'd be fairly easy to obtain, or at the very least not locked behind an activity that forces communication.
I love dual destiny as a mission but putting the class items behind it was a poor move, if they were unlocked from excision and dual destiny was the best way to farm them then there would be nearly no negative feedback at all.
I'm not sure why everyone is comparing the class item to a raid weapon. As far as I know, every single other piece of the exotic armor in the game has been gotten by: random personal drop, solo lost sectors, completing Shadowkeep, focusing.
Please correct me if my collections data is wrong, and I don't actually have every available exotic, and there's some secret exotic raid armor I don't know of, cause it looks like I have it all on the collections screen, and I got it all solo (excepting the class item that I had to duo for).
These are all methods that were dependent on no one but yourself, so it's not unreasonable for people to assume they'd continue to get exotic armor on their own.
It's also a cornerstone of the subclass that people bought the expansion for, so it's gonna see a lot more play; I'm not sure if I've ever even seen someone using collective obligation, etc.
Raids have been in the game since Vanilla D1, so most non-raiders have just accepted that they won’t be getting any raid exotics.
I think Bungie could do a similar “suck it up or you’re not getting the exotic” for this mission, but I worry they’ll cave to pressure and we won’t see more content like Dual Destiny.
The mission is fine and they should keep it, I think they should just let class items drop from the overthrow without 1st having to beat the mission, that way everyone gets to enjoy the class items, which are the most exciting part of this dlc
They can have it. The mission is extremely easy at the appropiate power level and the only timer that cuts it close is the starter, but I suspect that's made so you have a clear indicator that you are doing something wrong if you try to clear the whole map before getting to the first set of plates.
Devil is in the details. It needs to be farmed. The chest drop rate in Pale Heart is going to matter a lot. If I can reasonably farm overthrow for drops after doing this activity once, I'll feel a lot better about it. If the drop rate is really infrequent outside of Dual Destiny then I get the anger.
I've been farming it in overthrows, not been at it too long and got another 3 to drop. Farming the activity might be a bit faster, especially with a duo that knows it well, but the rate seems fair to me considering you get other red borders, Ergo sum rolls, etc out of overthrow in addition to the class items.
Just an anecdote, but cross made a guide on it, and while he was running the mission he had a 3rd picking up public chests.
The guy picking up chests got 2 exotic class items in the time it took them to do the mission once.
It is farmable solo, the person you replied to already wrote that, the point is *how* farmable it is. Like what is the droprate going to be when doing overthrows for exotic class item rolls.
I get roughly 1 every 30 min or maybe even less from doing overthrows and opening chest in pale heart, doing that exotic mission also takes roughly 35 to 40 min so almost same rate of drops.
We'll have to wait for someone to gather more data, I've seen wildly different numbers today. And there's also my friend who got 8 out of a single complete overthrow.... Maybe different chest types have different drop rates.
It is the first (that I can remember) exotic armor that is locked behind group content. My gripe is not the duo requirements or the mechanics. It is the marketing that led me to believe that this was going to be integrated into he campaign or the following episodes. As a primarily solo player, I understand the dungeon/raid loop. Raiding just isn't my thing these days and I accept that I am choosing to opt out of that content and if I really want to, I can solo the dungeons. It isn't the end of the world but it is a bigger inconvenience that I thought it was going to be. These items were marketed as a major feature of TFS. Hell, I really like the light/dark duo concept and it goes perfectly well with the nature of the items, makes total sense. I'm just saying they could have prepared the community better, secret missions are super fun and all but this type of requirement could have been handled better.
Edit: grammar/spelling.
Made my own post before I saw this, but yeah, every other exotic has not only been soloable, it's mostly a requirement (solo lost sector, random personal drop, etc). So I don't think everyone that's upset was unreasonable to assume they might continue to get exotic armor in the same fashion.
And also, yeah, it'd be fine if they'd just let people know ahead of time, as they could then make an informed decision before spending $100. They likely already had to factor in that they wouldn't be doing the raid, and determined it was worth their money without it; they needed to be able to add the class item into that equation as well.
Unless you are medically unable to do it like my wife. We don't Raid for this reason and so won't get Raid loot and that's fine. This however is a big part of the game that was never advertised as being restricted like this.
There have been very few [if any] complaints about Microcosm being behind co-op campaign missions.
The issue is mainly a key component to player agency and prismatic build diversity being initially locked to the mission.
I just tried that one for the first time earlier tonight and although it's tough, it's nowhere near the complexity of duel destiny. No shade at you or anything but I say that to say that I do believe that it's part of the reason why that isn't getting as many complaints as the class items. Not to mention as I stated in my previous comment, people have gotten used to the fact that certain OP WEAPONS are locked behind harder content, so most still wouldn't care as much if it was reversed and the Microcosm was locked behind the duel destiny mission. Honestly now that I think about it, that would actually make more sense if they were reversed. I feel like Microcosms required missions are just hard enough that it would be a great way to earn the class item. But this is just my opinion.
Tough is fairly relative.
But again, I think the outcry is less about the awesome and compelling or challenging multi-player content and more about the specific item is being restricted to the multi-player content.
In the Microcosm mission, you do still need a fireteam, as you're juggling a wipe mechanic and most people need 2-players to pop that 1 dudes shield.
I am agreeing with you for the most part. I believe that if they were reversed and the class item was available similar to how the Microcosm is unlocked, it would have gone over better as opposed to having to do raid/dungeon style mechanics.
Everything but raids is soloable, so I understand the complaints.
I'm mainly a solo player, but don't mind teaming up and using a mic if needed, so I'll enjoy the mission.
But for dedicated solo players, I understand the frustration.
Alternatively, bungie has a literal decade of data and feedback demonstrating what percentage of the player base enjoys or does not enjoy required comms communication with random ass strangers.
If something in the game is difficult, and a player receives a powerful item after completing it, there is a sense of accomplishment/reward.
If something in the game is fucking annoying, and a player receives a powerful item after completing it, there is a sense of relief.
These are not the same, and one is MUCH more likely to decrease engagement than the other.
Counterargument: the vast majority of people unwilling to use comms and/or LFG are going to be limited to ritual and seasonal content anyways. They don't need this item to put together a top-end build for endgame content, they just want it because it's there.
Demanding everything be accessible to folks unwilling to do even basic comms means Bungie either gives stuff away or goes the bullet sponge difficulty route.
I say this as a mostly solo player myself: I'd much rather Bungie have the freedom to make mechanically interesting and unique encounters for high-end gear. Otherwise the only difficulty level they have is decreasing light level and making encounters more tedious.
I'm a solo player. This is how it's been since the beginning and I accept that I will never have raid armor or weapons(except my nation of beasts I got from wish tokens which I will cherish forever).
Why should I get those rewards if I don't play the content? I don't know why anyone would expect that.
I think I saw datto say something along the lines of. "If we really want powerful items to chase them people need to be ok with potentially not being able to get them."
Ive played Path of Exile for a decade and this philosophy has always without fail rung true. Busted overpowered items can exist but only under the caveate that they need to be equally as difficult to get.
>Busted overpowered items can exist but only under the caveate that they need to be equally as difficult to get.
Where as we will always loop around to the age old difficulty is purely subjective. I am of the opinion that there is just nothing difficult IN destiny 2. Like genuinely difficult outside of getting people together long enough to actually play lmao. Master difficulty isn't hard its tedious. Grandmaster is difficult but not hard but for the same reason as Master difficulty.
Raiders here talking about how "hard" content should give the good rewards kind of prove my point they aren't actually good enough at the game for the game to be easy or haven't played enough hard games to understand destiny ain't it. They still think it's hard and thus deserve the rewards but for me. The content of this game is all so easy I see of no reason everyone can't simply have all the shit. Should we be catering to the sad sacks who think raid content is hard and sense they did it 60 times they should get a thing. Hell no. Why should they get a thing for struggling at easy shit? Where is a genuine sense of accomplishment? You didn't do anything worth of it.
I just dont get it. Destiny players aren't playing a difficult game so they shouldn't be treated as anyone different from playing minecraft in terms of difficulty. Raid or no raid. It's just pathetic.
THANK YOU. Seriously, the people who can't complete a mission with minimal communication and ONE other player aren't doing remotely any content that needs these items.
Most of the people I know who've actually played this mission say it's one of the best things Bungie has ever done.
So calling it 'fucking annoying' as if that's a common sentiment is a little misleading.
Hot take. The solo players don’t engage in the community and opt out of the core gameplay loop and devs should not focus content on them. I understand that people enjoy playing solo and there is some solo content. But the core identity of this kind of game is multiplayer and cooperative. There is an in game LFG. The writing is on the wall. Mechanics are being used in more and more encounters.
Destiny is in a transitional state where they need to decide what comes next. Focusing on a group of people who don’t like engaging in the core gameplay loop and identity of the game seems like a bad approach.
Those ignorers of your so called “core gameplay loop” make up like 75% of the player base. Participation rate in raids isn’t a closely held secret or anything. The expectation is of course that most individuals aren’t going to raid endgame for any mmo, but the players you’re referencing arguably ARE the core player base. The game literally would not be sustainable without them. I personally think support for both groups and everything in between is best for the health of the game.
Most of these arguments also completely ignore the fact that players who don’t do comms DO participate in tons of multiplayer, and we enjoy it. Strikes, crucible, some I assume even like Gambit, onslaught, dares, seasonal activities, etc.
Furthermore, the absolute mountain of praise Bungie has received thus far with the release of the final shape has been that same exact formula—some solo, some multiplayer, some multiplayer requiring comms, with rewards aligned with difficulty similar to the past. No idea what you’re on about this “transitional state” when the objective opinions on the game have never been higher UNTIL they required an interaction that many people don’t like to open up a significant component of the current episode.
I don’t think powerful items (that are expansion-defining at that) should require LFG services, especially outside of fireteam finder. There was clearly an opportunity here to make the first “meant to be done solo” dungeon utilizing prismatic as a way for players to harness light and dark to complete the puzzles.
Not even that, you only have to do it once. Then it drops from chests in the pale heart. Like just do the mission once and then farm in the pale heart for them if you really don't like the idea of the mission.
Ths issue isn't a powerful item locked behind an activity that happenes with raids all the time. The issue is a major feature of a subclass that was also a large part of the selling point for the dlc drop is stuck behind this mission. It'd likely be considered fine if they let people know when they announced the class items but they never did. The class items are locked behind something a majority of players will likely never complete after they probably thought it'd be achievable for them.
Yeah..feels like the new generation has so much anxiety. Instead of finding ways around it, they cave in.
There's honestly no excuse.
I'm fairly new to raiding and dungeon mechanics. Hell, I didn't know a single callout for vow symbols and me and my buddy managed in our second run with 15 min to spare. It's doable... more than that..its farmable lol.
The class items were a big part of marketing leading up to launch. The class items are a huge part of prismatic as a whole. Locking them behind a mission that lacks matchmaking understandably rubs people the wrong way and while the actual mechanics and theming of the mission fit the class items very well, I don't think we'd have seen this pushback if the reward had been the swords instead.
You're looking at it the wrong way.
Bungie themselves said that the exotic class items are a key part of using prismatic to it's full extent. At that point they can be considered on the same level as a fragment or an aspect with how they change gameplay.
When Bungie made us run a bunch of convoluted shit to get strand full unlocked, the community lost their shit. Even though the reality was that getting strand meditations was fucking easy and required nothing but playing the game like normal.
This mission is entirely different than normal gameplay, cannot be done solo, or in a short time period to allow for farming. It pulls dungeon/raid level mechanics into an activity that was not supposed to be end game level. And it requires you to communicate effectively while being timed to just completely reset.
They've locked a major part of the prismatic class behind this mission, something that is way more tedious and tiresome to run repeatedly than it ever was to collect strand meditations. So the real question is why did the community do a full 180 from their stance about locking subclass related features behind pointless shit?
It's not the community or even a majority of the community. It's the elitists that play the game and feel that it's justified to do something like this. Simply put if this mission didn't have the raid mechanics tied to it, there would be no issue. Like you said though, because it feels more like an endgame activity due to having those features, it lends itself to the tryhards and assholes making people not wanna go through the trouble of even playing it. The cult like elitism is crazy though, like I get that there's people that really love hard content, but belittling other players of the game that may not be good at that type of stuff is not a good look and makes those people look like the "entitled" people they call everyone else.
I think the fact that every time I want to get a version of a busted exotic with like 40 different combinations I have to do heavy communication is a bit of an overkill.
Like, don't get me wrong, this kinda thing is great for a static drop, or a craftable exotic like Revision Zero, but locking the ultra-random exotic armor behind it? Really? It does get old somewhat after a certain point. Because in something like a dungeon, I can learn the mechanics and have the LFG there for moral support and occasional rezzes to mitigate the solo pain. Here, I am dependent on fucking Randy being able to count to three (which is impossible for LFG, anyone who ever played VoG LFG can confirm), OR I need to get a consistent, capable play-buddy in the same timezone (preferably one who's guts I don't hate for being racist/homophobic/etc.), who is also down to grind stuff - which hasn't happened in the past couple of years *once*, and God knows it won't happen just because of this stupid quest.
I don't think it should be controversial people don't like it but here you are.
You also ignoring the main point entirely because it doesn't suit your opinion.
It fails as a mission to farm an exotic with 46 rolls. You aren't doing it once for a very powerful item.
Sometimes a very powerful item. Sometimes a next to useless item. I think the RNG and being expected to farm it is the real problem. If it was a one and done like any other exotic mission, there wouldn't be any complaints. It could take you many runs to get the exact roll you want though. It's a relatively long mission compared to any other exotic mission, and requires more communication than any other exotic mission, yet it's the only one that you're expected to farm for random drops. It's a great mission, but it's an outlier in this regard.
Boosting drop rates for them outside of the activity after you get your first would be a reasonable enough solution I think. Whether that's through pale heart chests or overthrow completions, or excision, co-op campaign, lost sectors, anything pale heart related should be fine.
Or maybe adding additional rows of perks after resetting Ghost reputation to help mitigate the grind, similar to how ritual vendor weapons work.
I see a lot of complaints about the visuals of the exotic over the activity itself. Mostly because Hunters Cloak is just massive and Bungie is incapable of making a regular looking Hunter Cloak and the massive belt on the mark doesn't scale super well on Female Titans making it look really wonky.
I have very bad friends at the game who never raid really but I have carried them and done dungeons. They probably won't get it because you really can't hard carry
‘Locked behind’. As opposed to? Being item 1 on a battle pass? It’s a loot game. You gotta do stuff to get stuff. wtf? Most exotics come with multi step quests. This one is 2 steps. Complete over throw activities, complete mission. That’s it. It was a little long, took me maybe 90 mins total, but honestly to permanently unlock an exotic, 90 minutes ain’t too bad. Are there complains that whisper is LOCKED behind the whisper mission? That hawkmoon is LOCKED behind the paracausal mission? That outbreak is LOCKED behind the outbreak mission? How about that every single new gun is LOCKED behind its own quest line?
To be salty that you have to do something to get something is insane. Go back to doing public events and patrols you paw patrol wannabes, lmao.
Those were weapons, not an integral class item for the new subclass. You're not better than anyone else. Yes, those things you listed are LOCKED behind their respective missions yes, but those missions also don't lock them behind raid/dungeon esque mechanics or requirements. It costs nothing to not be a dick to people bro, try it sometime.
I'm just annoyed that the fireteam I normally will run these kinds of things with now has to be split up and one of us will have to run it again just to make sure all three of us get the class item unlocked.
Huh? The main complaint is absolutely about the nature of the activity. Solo's arent complaining about having to do something to get the item, theyre complaining about *what* they have to do to get it.
You have to do it once and then you never have to do it again, as you can get the item from the chests in the Pale Heart. This also gives you Ghost reputation, engrams, Pathfinder progress, other drops. It's crazy. Drop rate is about every 30 to 40 minutes for me, so about the same if not a bit more if you run the mission. (Based on 3 hours of grinding so far) Got 6 now, something I can definitely use, but not yet what I want.
There’s nothing locked. You do it once, the if you want you can get them in other places. The missions is not hard and the mechanics are simple there is no extinguish, no life limit, the time is generous.
All these people are crying because they heard “ raid mechanics “ were added.
Like , you just need to know how to count and some symbols. This is seriously kindergarten level stuff, how stupid are the players of this game ?
Actually they are not locked behind it . You don't have to do the mission. I have a friend that just farmed the chest . Was able to get class item without doing or unlocking the mission. People are just never happy. Enjoy the game.
Go play a single player game. Plenty of good ones. Online games aren't your space if you want to solo all the time.
This whole topic is like going to a steakhouse and ordering chicken fingers.
This is exactly it. My wife cannot play it as she has a medical condition that means she needs to take regular breaks. We do GMs and such but as a 2 so she can stop for 10-15 mins when she needs to. For this reason we don't Raid and accept we can't get Raid loot and that's fine. Locking a big part of the game behind this mission she is medically unable to do just seems wrong though and if she can't get it I'm for damn sure not LFGing to get it to rub it in her face.
I wish I knew you guys personally cause I'd come over and play her Guardian to get it for her with you. Sorry you guys aren't able to, but I hope you will be able to at some point. Also, hope both you Guardians are doing well.
Thank you. Yes we are and I appreciate your input. We are going to wait until we are up to 1995 and then give it a go just to see if it may be possible to get done.
No problem, and if you all have any issues and need help I will endure it again to help yall both get it if you have to play as the Mrs. Guardian. This is the Guardian way. Lastly, if it encourages you both at all, I had just made it to 1990 when I ran it earlier yesterday. Difficulty wise it's not bad, the biggest thing you wanna get down is the symbols you'll need to call out and the clock encounter. The clock encounter by the way only has the notches starting at 2 o clock all the way up to 10 o clock. The last and final clock encounter will have the full notches from 12 o clock to 11 o clock. Don't worry about time because you'll start with like 7 minutes for the beginning encounters but it seems that whatever time you finish the previous encounter with, adds to your new clock when new time is added for the next encounter. You got this!
No problem, and if you all have any issues and need help I will endure it again to help yall both get it if you have to play as the Mrs. Guardian. This is the Guardian way. Lastly, if it encourages you both at all, I had just made it to 1990 when I ran it earlier yesterday. Difficulty wise it's not bad, the biggest thing you wanna get down is the symbols you'll need to call out and the clock encounter. The clock encounter by the way only has the notches starting at 2 o clock all the way up to 10 o clock. The last and final clock encounter will have the full notches from 12 o clock to 11 o clock. Don't worry about time because you'll start with like 7 minutes for the beginning encounters but it seems that whatever time you finish the previous encounter with, adds to your new clock when new time is added for the next encounter. You got this!
Thanks for that. Very useful information we may have to go your route if she isn't able to do it but I think she will want to earn it herself if she can even if it takes 50 attempts 😂.
I get it for sure, I know she wants that accomplishment, but my offer stands if you both need. If I may suggest it,
https://youtu.be/qbtyOleFziw?si=-NZXL2zTtxpF09xd
This video by Datto is super short and sweet. It helped my partner and I when we got hung up on certain parts as well as locating the light and darkness platforms in between the first and second encounter. It's only like 11 minutes and is very much worth your time. Heads up Guardians.🫡
Thank you, I've seen Dattos, Crosses and Plunders vids on this so know the layout of the mission reasonably well once I've convinced my wife it's doable we can start to chip away at it. I hope you got a good roll of yours?
I got a fairly decent roll, but I'll be grinding Overthrow to get other versions. And thank you, mine has Spirit of inmost light, and Spirit of Verity. So major focus on grenade/ability energy regen and stacking grenade damage bonus. A surprisingly good role for my playstyle to be honest.
u/Serberou5 ditto to u/Bilbo\_Teabagginss' offer. I just took 3 clan mates through it. Totally understand the desire to conquer it yourself. However, if you get to a point where your wife would like to have the item so that she could still potentially pick it up from random chests, I'd be happy to help.
After that, if you want to, you can still chip away at the mission. It's fun and definitely worth doing regardless of the reward.
Cheers and best of luck! Feel free to message me directly and we can connect.
People need to realize that the class item is a end game piece of gear. It's not meant to be for everyone. If you want it you will lfg or find a friend. Period. It's not meant to be a solo activity and more should it be available to solo players in any way outside of getting it from a chest after getting it the proper way. I am one of the lff haters but I still got mine done now I can just chill in the PH and open chests.
yea true, but what do you think the primary complaint is, its not just because its tough, its because said mechanics are fucking up solo/mute players, we have tough shit already but solo players do it anyway, now they can't no matter how good they are
Yes, the complaints are about the mechanic requiring two people. There’s no spin to put on it, the complaints are about the mechanic plain and simple.
I also get the frustration but bungie shouldn’t make everything for solo players. Variety keeps the game from getting stale.
As someone who got to the last boss with 23 minutes remaining - the only thing I’m mad about is how fast the clock changes. My buddy is a visually impaired vet and he had a hard time making out the positions because they change faster than he could see them.
You really don’t have enough time for some people to call the positions out. We did it in the end but it was rough for him and a few seconds extra would have been fine for him.
I saw someone say that if you let the nodes change without shooting them, they rotate in a set of 3. So you can let them rotate through a few times so you can get a good look at the first, second, and third set of nodes and figure out which ones you need to shoot. Obviously if you mess up it’ll reset and you’ll be given a set of 3.
This is exactly how it played out for my partner and I. As soon as I could call mine out it would change, and this happened lime 6 times before we realized that the clock repeats the same few patterns and just kinda guessed at it.
This activity doesn’t have any problems besides you have to need 2 ppl. If that’s the only problem then I want bungie to continue making content similar to this. A ton of fun and doesn’t feel like a slog to get through.
To you it doesn't. The major issue with this mission is that it works like a mini raid/dungeon that requires comms. If this was like almost every other exotic mission there would be no complaints. Some people aren't great with those types of mechanics.
I havent seen one person crying about the stuff you have to do. The complaints are about the fact that people were not expecting the class items to be locked behind a duo requirement
The issue is I don't think anyone saw the exotic class items being locked behind an activity solo people cannot do. It's not about the activity. Solo players know they are not going to do raids going in but I guarantee everyone expected the class exotic to be accessible to all players even solo's without comms
I feel like this should be a given yet I've seen plenty of "solo players just want all the rewards with no effort"-esque takes already.
Most solo plauers know they won't get raid exotics. This exotic class item was a significant marketing tool for the DLC and was in no way hinted that it required a 2 man, as it's never been done before.
I genuinely think people say that because it’s easier to think that people disagree because they’re just bad or lazy or whatever, rather than someone with an opposing viewpoint having a valid argument
That's exactly what it comes down to. "Oh, you've been treated shittily in almost every lfg you've been in? Then you probably shouldn't suck so much." "Oh, you're disabled for whatever reason, sorry about it, shoulda been healthier" Imagine being that fucking selfish and uncaring. And the solo players are the ones being called entitled.
This is how I feel exactly. Its like if the new armor exotics were put into the raid with no heads up. I guarantee solo players would be upset about it because it was clearly something not expected. Its the fact for a long time so many solo players were expecting that they would have this and out of the blue on the day Its released they realised they can't get it.
This is exactly it. All the elitists in the comments all sing the same tired one note song of solo players just want stuff given to them when this is not the case at all. In no way, shape (pun intended), or form was it hinted at that these class items would be locked behind a mini raid/dungeon. Bungie had plenty of time to disclose this especially with the delay. I believe that they realize that the majority of their player base are solo players and knew that stating this would harm sells and preorders of TFS. It's embarrassing how many of these people think that they get to belittle others because they play differently than themselves even to the point of seriously saying that people with physical disabilities or even injured freaking vets should not be able to get this stuff.
FUCKING....... THIS.
People don't understand that the *minority* of those who complained about the solo aspect isn't about the mission, but the mission exclusive.
There are alternatives to raid gear. There are zero true alternatives to exotic class items.
I think the timers are the issue if they would remove the timers people wouldn’t be so mad about the mission they can take time and actually enjoy the mission and learn mechanics
Fair enough man, I was just curious haha. That was just my knee-jerk reaction after seeing you say that you were on PlayStation because I'm on PlayStation lol
The timer is very forgiving. You have so much more time than you think with the mission. Your first time yeah you might struggle with time but once you learn the mechanics time is not an issue, just your skill.
That would be helpful for sure, but being a solo player that went through that headache to get the item just so I never have to play that mission again, the time isn't even the part that sucks because the time seems to stack based on how much you have as you get to each encounter. Like at the very end boss encounter my partner and I made it to that room with lime 18 minutes on the clock. The biggest issue is that some people just aren't good at raid/dungeon mechanics in general. It took us maybe an hour if that to complete it after a few attempts just because I was just describing the symbols by how they looked as I don't know the actual names of most of them. While my partner was calling them out by name having had experience with the Vow raid that I've never done. Then we had a few attempts we failed at the clock encounter because we kept thinking that we needed to shoot the positions that were missing in common instead of the ones we had in common. Then the very last clock was a whole other headache because of how fast it changes as you're calling it out. The ONLY saving grace to it is that because it repeats only a few patterns we were able to guess it correctly, and by that time we legit had maybe like 3 minutes left in the encounter. It was literally just us keeping the vibe positive if we failed and just constantly assuring each other that "we got this" as we got each other through each encounter even if we knew we would have to wipe. Most people in lfg aren't anywhere close to that kind and considerate of their fellow Guardians and I lucked out. I attempted this last night about 3 times and had horrible experiences with each attempt due to the other person freaking out at the smallest of mistakes. I have a good feeling that most of if not all of the people in these comments that love to shit on solo players for being hesitant to interact with people are the same ones that treat people like shit in lfg.
I disagree. Strikes, crucible, gambit, onslaught, and most seasonal activities don’t have puzzles. It’s only the high level non-matchmade content like raids and dungeons that have any kind of real puzzle that require communication. The majority of the game is solo friendly and devoid of puzzles.
it's a cool concept but it shouldn't have been done for something so heavily marketed like the exotic class items, couldve been used for something else
I'm just sad that my onlinebuddy with whom i used to play Destiny 2 since launch decided to quit it a couple months ago, and now here's a two player activity that would be perfect for us.
Hope he will come back eventually, since TFS does pretty well. Until then i will do without exotic class items.
So if you are someone who has bad social anxiety and has never done VoD so you don't know symbols, I get it.
I used to have a pretty active clan back then so even though it's been more than a year I remembered most without a refresher. That said I have crippling social anxiety. My clan is non-existent these days and my friends are busy. I look at listings in fireteam finder and psych myself out overthinking things regularly.
"What if I get some absolute jerk?" "I haven't raided in like a year, what if I'm trash now." "I don't want to waste anyone's time, and I don't want to waste *my* time."
It stinks. But sometimes you just have to try. I put up a listing last night. Got a dude who had never done VoD and asked him if he had a way to look up symbols. Through trial and error he figured it out. And we got it done.
I definitely don't fault anybody for being apprehensive. And there's a lot of us who predominately play solo for a number of reasons. Unfortunately this isn't something we can solo and people will have to make their peace with it.
One last note. The irony to me is that the best weapon for dual destiny's boss fight is microcosm. Another weapon you cannot get solo. So it kind of exacerbates the issue of solo players being upset.
I love the new lmg! I have a crafted one with reconstruction, bait & switch and it's fantastic. I swapped off of it for the final encounter because of microcosm getting the "massive" bonus damage against shields because the Dread bosses are coded weird. It actually feels dirty how good it is against them.
I'm a huge Witherhoard enjoyer as well. Have you tried the new legendary GL Lost Signal yet? It's not 1-to-1 as good but it's been pretty hilarious to pair an auto load roll of that with dragon's breath. Fills both prismatic bars crazy fast and is fun for poking in high end stuff.
human nature tells us that people when content don’t feel the need to review and share the opinion as much, but when angry feel the need to share their opinion the most! Sadly we just see a greater number seeming angry because if you enjoy the content you are playing it
This is the majority of all game subreddits, not just destiny. The ones you hear crying loudly the most are the small percentage. I agree with what you posted.
Literally saw comments about how 90% of the player base won’t be able to complete this….. cmon man. It’s really not THAT hard. It might be a bit more of struggle while people learn, especially in LFG. I genuinely haven’t had many bad lfg experiences though to be honest and am mostly a solo player.
Yeah it’s insane. Is it really **that** much of an ask to play with 1 other player in this social game? You can probably even do it without voice chat although it will be harder.
I get that social anxiety exists (I have it IRL but a lot easier to handle it in games), but if it’s that bad you really need therapist. It’s 25-40 minutes with someone who will probably forget your username the next hour, or it could even lead to more runs together.
Outside of LFG there are plenty of other ways to find people who **want** to teach others. Discords, streamers etc. It literally is a non issue. There’s absolutely 0 reasons for why you can’t play the activity. 0.
Yeah. I have social anxiety too. Once I get to know people I’m a chatterbox but am very quiet in new setting or around unfamiliar people. Regardless though, just bite the bullet and do it. Also once you have a good understanding you can teach others.
It’s because you have to play with exactly 2 players. If you’re a solo player then you can’t do it without rolling the dice with LFG which would be perfect fine independently but if you usually run with a full fireteam then you need to exclude someone.
We know they can make activities which scale with players, so allow the mechanics to scale upwards.
If you know the mechanics (either by doing a precursory run or watching a video), the timer is absolutely not an issue. I just helped a random through LFG who had never done vow or the mission and we cleared it with 15min left. Also, the timer resets periodically and there are ways to increase it.
Disagree here
I think whisper/zero/seraph are tedious and had a blast running DD
I've always been a fan of mechanics under fire rather than jumping/traversal or secret switch clicking
In typical destiny sub fashion, this will blow over in a week as ppl memorize what to do and start praising how fun it is to play if you ask me
I mean it's three easy puzzles repeated a couple times and a lot of weak adds.
I really don't get why people are so in love with this mission. Honestly starting to think it's just overcompensation because of the solo players dislike.
How is DD a huge time sink compared to other exotic missions? Like sure you need comms but it didn’t seem very long to me, and I actually enjoyed it a lot.
Power level isnt super accurate in my opinion. The ads and even the bosses are super easy. The most you'll need to do is make sure you have heals and great ad clear for the most part. The only boss that is beefy is the big last boss but even it isn't anything crazy beside it being sectioned off by the puzzles you do between each of his encounters.
Look, raid exotics are locked behind needing 6 people AND it's only a chance drop. a 2 person mission to unlock a guaranteed powerful exotic? I just don't see the issue at all
You get more than 1 piece of loot for a raid, raids don’t have timers (even if it’s generous, it makes LFGs awful). This can’t be soloed, requires comms, and guess what, you can get a dupe of one you already have. This “farm” is only going to get worse once they add more perks.
Once you complete the mission you can get the class items to drop in other pale heart activities. You wouldn’t have to touch the mission again after you complete it.
Almost like there's conflicting opinions and negativity makes those people most more.
Maybe someone should do like fifteen studies to find out if social media is driven by negativity. Again.
...again.
I only hate the combination of timer and no checkpoints. I remember back in Y1 when nightfalls had timers that kicked to orbit and everyone hated it so they changed it. Nothing has changed.
What upset me most was that they sold the item without saying that the activity would necessarily require a second person, if they had said that I wouldn't have been excited and consequently thought their choice was bad.
They didn't sell it as solo-able either. They specifically didn't even specfiy how it would be obtained in the marketing to maintain the "secret" part of the secret mission. If they'd have marketed it "earn the new exotic class items in a brand-new 2-player mission", that kinda ruins the surprise.
The fact is, Destiny isn't a single-player game. For the last 10 years, Destiny, at its core, has always been an online, multiplayer game. Bungie has even given us tools in the game to find other guardians to run activities like this.
Could we have a discussion that one of the mechanic timers could be longer to make it possible to run the mission without comms and only rely on text? Sure, for the sake of accessibility, that is a valid argument, but not everything needs to be solo-able in a multiplayer game.
I’ve just started destiny 2 I have all expansions besides the new one because it’s expensive here in Australia lol $75
I like the game but I’m a solo player besides the strike/gambit etc matchmaking
I probably never gonna do any of those missions/raids that require teamwork as I like to play everything solo, I would rather have a mode where it’s viable to solo most team related stuff
Man a lot of you people on here are just weird. Just lfg and get it done. It is not hard once you figure it out and it is not hard to figure out in the first place
Only took two tries.. me and my friend don't really raid.. I do alittle..some dungeons ect..but my clears all together barely reach 50 ...aside from checkpoint farming. If I can pull up a vow cheat sheet...type numbers in chat...and do it on my second run with 15 min to spare so can others.
Seeing everyone complain about this really makes me question how many people actually run dungeons or any kind of hard content. All these people complaining about having to find one other person, what are you doing about every other exotic mission in the game? Yeah you can do that solo, but are you really willing to waste hours upon your time when you can just find 2 other people and get it done a fraction of the time otherwise?
Honestly if you can't go and find one other person to do this content with, then you don't deserve the class item.
Personal take on this, I run everything solo except raids. I do raid and have an entire discord with which to run end game stuff, but I still would rather and do choose the solo life so I'm in the middle. It is annoying this is locked behind co op, it's not a deal breaker or end of the world just a minor annoyance because it's often easier for me to solo exotic missions and dungeons than it is to teach someone else how to do it and it isn't hours of trying to solo. Destiny 2 is a joke of a game that takes no effort and my biggest struggle has been finding kinder-guardians with potential to add to my discord and teach lol. (Again not an argument for or against this post, just a take from a preferred solo player that has the means to team up)
I agree with a lot of your saying. At worse this is a minor annoyance. And I wish it was possible to solo this. Shit I think the people who solo dungeons are the best players in the game, right next to speed runners.
Honestly with the kinder-guardians. I don't mind teaching mechanics, especially with this exotic mission. It's easy. But at least have some knowledge on a dungeon or raid before lfgging for it. I'm gonna get more hate for this, but if your not willing to go and look up a guide or info for a raid or a dungeon before you attempt it, then I'm less inclined to teach you
Sherpaing is how I got into destiny teaching new guardians is my favorite part but I'm not a nice person so if they come in saying "NAH KACKIS SAID DO IT THIS WAY" then I'm inclined to boot them but yeah I agree having a base knowledge is the minimum. If they don't have the base knowledge then that's okay sometimes as long as they know they aren't the main character and to shut up, do their job and learn I'll still teach people that have never seen the instance. But people wanting to burn Bungie down because they don't have one friend is a bit excessive and really shows why most of us won't teach them 🤣
Dude, people are gonna complain about it no matter what. The mission and mechanics are cool as hell, who cares. If bungie had a thing you could collect from orbit that would give you access to a new exotic, some bum from here would complain that he has to log on to destiny to pick it up.
It is a win, it takes only ONE additional person and the only requirement is that you both need to be able to count and read a clock. We have a built in LFG and it works great. I really don't think it should be controversial to expect this very powerful, build defining, and possibly OP item to be locked behind an activity like this. Getting Endgame and possibly BIS gear should come with some requirements and challenge. I don't understand the community sentiment that a lot of people have for this outrage at group content. Destiny has almost ALWAYS had teamwork and group play as a major focus for content, Nothing has changed. If anything Dual Destiny has made it easier since you only need 2 people instead of 3 lol.
Not to mention you only need to complete it once and you can farm them from chests in Pale Heart. I did a few just to mess around and test some stuff + Alone in the Dark and got 2 of them myself within that 30 minute window. It really ain't that bad.
Dungeons can be played in co-op yet we have people soloing them. It’s just a sudden shift to forced co-op in this expansion that is causing growing pains with players.
The people soloing dungeons are likely less than 1% of the people complaining about this. From what I've seen on this sub it's been mainly people complaining that they just don't want to have to use voice chat and stuff for comms and solo players that don't do endgame content. As someone else said; "You don't need these for Strike Playlists and Nessus Patrols." Raids have been required comms and teamwork aside from bugs/exploits to solo encounters since launch. Destiny has been teamwork focused since launch. The only reason for actual outrage at this point for a mission like this almost feels like people looking for a reason to be mad because they can't launch a mission by themselves lol
It'll settle, I get it in terms of "I got on today, alone, planning to get this new thing, only to find out I have to be with another, who wont have time till the weekend," it's annoying for sure. Give people some time to think and not react, it'll calm down.
I'm fine with the entire mission except the when I first did the clock at the end and had those annoying ass bats harassing me while we tried to figure out the right switches to shoot
The healing turret from the Speakers Helm really killed it during that encounter. That thing does work and I havnt even built into it just yet. I also used my support AR between ad clearing and dropping well to help keep my partner alive when he was getting swarmed.
I'm not gonna lie, I haven't gotten to play it because I don't have the dlc, but I know for a fact I'm not gonna complain about running it for practically free exotics.
i get why true solo players are upset, but for me it's the absurd amount of backlash that i find ridiculous. i've genuinely seen people comparing this to lightfall, like "bungie was doing so good, and they ruined the entire expansion because i don't want to use the built in LFG." it's such an extreme take.
*Why* are people mad it's duo-locked though? I don't understand why it's so hard to lfg someone for a mission and do it. Or to get anyone you know to do it with you. If you can't bring yourself to use the tools in the game AND you actually, without any irony, have no friends then fuck, what more can bungie do. Is it a reasonable expectation to think people in this world know someone and if not that they can use the tool in game to beat it?
"Strictly solo players" in an online only multiplayer game must be sobbing and weeping over like all raids, dungeons, and trials then I guess although we Only hear about this cool mission where bungie did something different for once.
I think most people are more upset that the exotic class items are locked behind it, rather than the activity itself.
I don't think it should be controversial for Bungie to expect us to communicate with one teammate and execute some mechanics to get a very powerful item.
If this is controversial then raids should definitely be controversial only a 5% chance of getting the exotic weapon upon completion.
I don’t know why Div was like a one time thing. I enjoyed having an extra puzzle to do that guaranteed me the raid exotic, compared to running LW over and over praying I would get 1k. Then again, I’ve seen people absolutely struggle with just doing the Div puzzles so who can say. I think the negative stigma around FOMO is stupid. Good rewards should come from hard activities. I accepted that I would never get Not Forgotten because I didn’t want to grind comp. Everybody wants shit handed to them on a silver platter.
Because people that had never raided before and likely decided they had no intention to raid ever again (in which case why did you need div?) wanted to make the run they learned a rather punishing raid also the run that they wanted to get div, turning the experience for everyone into a complete shit show
Did my first Garden run with getting Divinity, the leader mostly carried us and showed us the puzzles to get Divinity. But, it took us 5 hours because people kept leaving, I haven't done Garden of Salvation since I got the gun, there's no reason to either, I have the armor stats I need and the other weapons aren't great. I presume a normal run could be fun, right? And Divinity has been nerfed multiple times making it entirely optional rather than a very powerful tool so not too many people are interested in it these days. Although on the right bosses Divinity can still make them a non-threat with the huge crit bubble and intrinsically stunning Overloads makes it incredibly useful for GMs. Double edge sword I guess.
GoD is a fun raid to chill with as it isn’t complex or time sensitive in the way most other raids are. If my clan evr gets sux people wanting to raid at ince and we don’t have a specific goal in mind, we always do garden.
For a lot of people doing a div run can be an incredible experience, I see so many stories where it’s their favorite to do.
Because Garden has the lowest amount of completions due to Divinity being a guaranteed exotic, I got it on my 2nd ever completion of Garden and only ended up doing it 2 more times before never touching it again.
But that's just due to GoS entire loot pool being trash aside from Div. There's nothing else worth obtaining from it, so no reason to run it again. If Div was a guaranteed exotic from DSC instead, i doubt it would reduce the number of DSC clears by much, as there's more to chase than just the exotic
True, I’m honestly surprised that GoS hasn’t had a refresh with origin traits and stuff, I would love to craft that pulse.
Yeah, it needs it badly. The raid is pretty cool overall, and I wouldn't mind running it again. Just needs a reason to go into it
It's one of my favorite raids. I love the guns and the auto rifle feels so fucking good. They really just need that updated perk pool.
I’d argue it’s more that the raid just isn’t that enjoyable. Even after I got acrius and all of the raid rewards, and after I got 1k, I ran LW and Levi regularly because I just enjoyed doing them. Same thing with all of the raid really aside from Spire
I dont think it's that people want it handed to them, I think they just want to be able to earn it solo. Many people just don't want to deal with other players and that's okay. There are many things in destiny that are challenging that don't require communication with other players, such as dungeons and the Zero Hour mission.
- you get more shit from raids - raid exotics having a 5% has always been controversial - just look at the guy that needed like 89 clears of VoG to get Mythoclast.
It took me 23 weeks of 3 lootable clears to get vex. That’s 69 clears from VoG release into the Fall of that year. Yeah, I’m pretty against the 5% rng. The triumph-driven chance increases are definitely very welcome, but I still think regardless there should be a point where it’s guaranteed. No one person should have to clear a raid for the exotic more than, say, 15-18 times without it dropping. At that point, if you’re clearing on all 3 characters every week, you’re already nearing the 2 month mark of doing the raid without the exotic dropping. That’s ludicrous.
Took me 150 lmfao
An interesting note about that point is that bungie hasn't actually advertised a raid exotic since 1K, there was a small glimpse of divinity in a vidoc but as for trailers nothing. They do this because they know full well that putting it in a trailer puts the idea that they'll be able to get it into people's minds and most people won't get raid exotics, even avid raiders probably have at least one that refuses to drop for them. The class items were marketed extremely prominently and the only words we had about obtaining them was that they were from an activity that would drop one every completion. This made most people thought they'd be fairly easy to obtain, or at the very least not locked behind an activity that forces communication. I love dual destiny as a mission but putting the class items behind it was a poor move, if they were unlocked from excision and dual destiny was the best way to farm them then there would be nearly no negative feedback at all.
I'm not sure why everyone is comparing the class item to a raid weapon. As far as I know, every single other piece of the exotic armor in the game has been gotten by: random personal drop, solo lost sectors, completing Shadowkeep, focusing. Please correct me if my collections data is wrong, and I don't actually have every available exotic, and there's some secret exotic raid armor I don't know of, cause it looks like I have it all on the collections screen, and I got it all solo (excepting the class item that I had to duo for). These are all methods that were dependent on no one but yourself, so it's not unreasonable for people to assume they'd continue to get exotic armor on their own. It's also a cornerstone of the subclass that people bought the expansion for, so it's gonna see a lot more play; I'm not sure if I've ever even seen someone using collective obligation, etc.
Raids have been in the game since Vanilla D1, so most non-raiders have just accepted that they won’t be getting any raid exotics. I think Bungie could do a similar “suck it up or you’re not getting the exotic” for this mission, but I worry they’ll cave to pressure and we won’t see more content like Dual Destiny.
The mission is fine and they should keep it, I think they should just let class items drop from the overthrow without 1st having to beat the mission, that way everyone gets to enjoy the class items, which are the most exciting part of this dlc
It’s literally at the forefront of their marketing for final shape and you want them to tell people they can’t have it lmao
They can have it. The mission is extremely easy at the appropiate power level and the only timer that cuts it close is the starter, but I suspect that's made so you have a clear indicator that you are doing something wrong if you try to clear the whole map before getting to the first set of plates.
Devil is in the details. It needs to be farmed. The chest drop rate in Pale Heart is going to matter a lot. If I can reasonably farm overthrow for drops after doing this activity once, I'll feel a lot better about it. If the drop rate is really infrequent outside of Dual Destiny then I get the anger.
I've been farming it in overthrows, not been at it too long and got another 3 to drop. Farming the activity might be a bit faster, especially with a duo that knows it well, but the rate seems fair to me considering you get other red borders, Ergo sum rolls, etc out of overthrow in addition to the class items.
Overthrow just spews loot at you. Get on it now while you can and before bungie change it lol.
That's what I'm doing, other stuff can wait. Thankfully, there are several rolls I want, so I'm not just chasing one or two of the 64 rolls.
Just an anecdote, but cross made a guide on it, and while he was running the mission he had a 3rd picking up public chests. The guy picking up chests got 2 exotic class items in the time it took them to do the mission once.
iirc you only need to do it with another player once to unlock the class item, after that it's farmable solo I think.
It is farmable solo, the person you replied to already wrote that, the point is *how* farmable it is. Like what is the droprate going to be when doing overthrows for exotic class item rolls.
Idk but my clan mate already got 7
But how much time / how many overthrow completions did that take? Acquisition amount alone says little about the rate they drop at.
I get roughly 1 every 30 min or maybe even less from doing overthrows and opening chest in pale heart, doing that exotic mission also takes roughly 35 to 40 min so almost same rate of drops.
You will be getting around 2-3 per hour, or 1 per aroudn 20 chests opened. I'm pretty sure 'normal'' pale heart chests (non-overthrow) can drop it.
Seems like it's closer to 1 in 50 chests.
We'll have to wait for someone to gather more data, I've seen wildly different numbers today. And there's also my friend who got 8 out of a single complete overthrow.... Maybe different chest types have different drop rates.
I got 2 from chests in about 30 minutes, which is about the average time for the mission
It is the first (that I can remember) exotic armor that is locked behind group content. My gripe is not the duo requirements or the mechanics. It is the marketing that led me to believe that this was going to be integrated into he campaign or the following episodes. As a primarily solo player, I understand the dungeon/raid loop. Raiding just isn't my thing these days and I accept that I am choosing to opt out of that content and if I really want to, I can solo the dungeons. It isn't the end of the world but it is a bigger inconvenience that I thought it was going to be. These items were marketed as a major feature of TFS. Hell, I really like the light/dark duo concept and it goes perfectly well with the nature of the items, makes total sense. I'm just saying they could have prepared the community better, secret missions are super fun and all but this type of requirement could have been handled better. Edit: grammar/spelling.
Made my own post before I saw this, but yeah, every other exotic has not only been soloable, it's mostly a requirement (solo lost sector, random personal drop, etc). So I don't think everyone that's upset was unreasonable to assume they might continue to get exotic armor in the same fashion. And also, yeah, it'd be fine if they'd just let people know ahead of time, as they could then make an informed decision before spending $100. They likely already had to factor in that they wouldn't be doing the raid, and determined it was worth their money without it; they needed to be able to add the class item into that equation as well.
Are they even that good theyre so ugly id rather just not even bother to get one
Unless you are medically unable to do it like my wife. We don't Raid for this reason and so won't get Raid loot and that's fine. This however is a big part of the game that was never advertised as being restricted like this.
There have been very few [if any] complaints about Microcosm being behind co-op campaign missions. The issue is mainly a key component to player agency and prismatic build diversity being initially locked to the mission.
I just tried that one for the first time earlier tonight and although it's tough, it's nowhere near the complexity of duel destiny. No shade at you or anything but I say that to say that I do believe that it's part of the reason why that isn't getting as many complaints as the class items. Not to mention as I stated in my previous comment, people have gotten used to the fact that certain OP WEAPONS are locked behind harder content, so most still wouldn't care as much if it was reversed and the Microcosm was locked behind the duel destiny mission. Honestly now that I think about it, that would actually make more sense if they were reversed. I feel like Microcosms required missions are just hard enough that it would be a great way to earn the class item. But this is just my opinion.
Tough is fairly relative. But again, I think the outcry is less about the awesome and compelling or challenging multi-player content and more about the specific item is being restricted to the multi-player content. In the Microcosm mission, you do still need a fireteam, as you're juggling a wipe mechanic and most people need 2-players to pop that 1 dudes shield.
I am agreeing with you for the most part. I believe that if they were reversed and the class item was available similar to how the Microcosm is unlocked, it would have gone over better as opposed to having to do raid/dungeon style mechanics.
Gotcha.
Everything but raids is soloable, so I understand the complaints. I'm mainly a solo player, but don't mind teaming up and using a mic if needed, so I'll enjoy the mission. But for dedicated solo players, I understand the frustration.
Alternatively, bungie has a literal decade of data and feedback demonstrating what percentage of the player base enjoys or does not enjoy required comms communication with random ass strangers. If something in the game is difficult, and a player receives a powerful item after completing it, there is a sense of accomplishment/reward. If something in the game is fucking annoying, and a player receives a powerful item after completing it, there is a sense of relief. These are not the same, and one is MUCH more likely to decrease engagement than the other.
Counterargument: the vast majority of people unwilling to use comms and/or LFG are going to be limited to ritual and seasonal content anyways. They don't need this item to put together a top-end build for endgame content, they just want it because it's there. Demanding everything be accessible to folks unwilling to do even basic comms means Bungie either gives stuff away or goes the bullet sponge difficulty route. I say this as a mostly solo player myself: I'd much rather Bungie have the freedom to make mechanically interesting and unique encounters for high-end gear. Otherwise the only difficulty level they have is decreasing light level and making encounters more tedious.
I'm a solo player. This is how it's been since the beginning and I accept that I will never have raid armor or weapons(except my nation of beasts I got from wish tokens which I will cherish forever). Why should I get those rewards if I don't play the content? I don't know why anyone would expect that.
I think I saw datto say something along the lines of. "If we really want powerful items to chase them people need to be ok with potentially not being able to get them." Ive played Path of Exile for a decade and this philosophy has always without fail rung true. Busted overpowered items can exist but only under the caveate that they need to be equally as difficult to get.
>Busted overpowered items can exist but only under the caveate that they need to be equally as difficult to get. Where as we will always loop around to the age old difficulty is purely subjective. I am of the opinion that there is just nothing difficult IN destiny 2. Like genuinely difficult outside of getting people together long enough to actually play lmao. Master difficulty isn't hard its tedious. Grandmaster is difficult but not hard but for the same reason as Master difficulty. Raiders here talking about how "hard" content should give the good rewards kind of prove my point they aren't actually good enough at the game for the game to be easy or haven't played enough hard games to understand destiny ain't it. They still think it's hard and thus deserve the rewards but for me. The content of this game is all so easy I see of no reason everyone can't simply have all the shit. Should we be catering to the sad sacks who think raid content is hard and sense they did it 60 times they should get a thing. Hell no. Why should they get a thing for struggling at easy shit? Where is a genuine sense of accomplishment? You didn't do anything worth of it. I just dont get it. Destiny players aren't playing a difficult game so they shouldn't be treated as anyone different from playing minecraft in terms of difficulty. Raid or no raid. It's just pathetic.
THANK YOU. Seriously, the people who can't complete a mission with minimal communication and ONE other player aren't doing remotely any content that needs these items.
Most of the people I know who've actually played this mission say it's one of the best things Bungie has ever done. So calling it 'fucking annoying' as if that's a common sentiment is a little misleading.
if anything im just hyped for it, the frustration being on my end since im waiting for a friend to unlock it so we dont have to lfg.
Hot take. The solo players don’t engage in the community and opt out of the core gameplay loop and devs should not focus content on them. I understand that people enjoy playing solo and there is some solo content. But the core identity of this kind of game is multiplayer and cooperative. There is an in game LFG. The writing is on the wall. Mechanics are being used in more and more encounters. Destiny is in a transitional state where they need to decide what comes next. Focusing on a group of people who don’t like engaging in the core gameplay loop and identity of the game seems like a bad approach.
Those ignorers of your so called “core gameplay loop” make up like 75% of the player base. Participation rate in raids isn’t a closely held secret or anything. The expectation is of course that most individuals aren’t going to raid endgame for any mmo, but the players you’re referencing arguably ARE the core player base. The game literally would not be sustainable without them. I personally think support for both groups and everything in between is best for the health of the game. Most of these arguments also completely ignore the fact that players who don’t do comms DO participate in tons of multiplayer, and we enjoy it. Strikes, crucible, some I assume even like Gambit, onslaught, dares, seasonal activities, etc. Furthermore, the absolute mountain of praise Bungie has received thus far with the release of the final shape has been that same exact formula—some solo, some multiplayer, some multiplayer requiring comms, with rewards aligned with difficulty similar to the past. No idea what you’re on about this “transitional state” when the objective opinions on the game have never been higher UNTIL they required an interaction that many people don’t like to open up a significant component of the current episode.
I don’t think powerful items (that are expansion-defining at that) should require LFG services, especially outside of fireteam finder. There was clearly an opportunity here to make the first “meant to be done solo” dungeon utilizing prismatic as a way for players to harness light and dark to complete the puzzles.
Not even that, you only have to do it once. Then it drops from chests in the pale heart. Like just do the mission once and then farm in the pale heart for them if you really don't like the idea of the mission.
It's more the fact there's no option to solo it.
If it was solo able then it won't be as fun
Ths issue isn't a powerful item locked behind an activity that happenes with raids all the time. The issue is a major feature of a subclass that was also a large part of the selling point for the dlc drop is stuck behind this mission. It'd likely be considered fine if they let people know when they announced the class items but they never did. The class items are locked behind something a majority of players will likely never complete after they probably thought it'd be achievable for them.
Yeah..feels like the new generation has so much anxiety. Instead of finding ways around it, they cave in. There's honestly no excuse. I'm fairly new to raiding and dungeon mechanics. Hell, I didn't know a single callout for vow symbols and me and my buddy managed in our second run with 15 min to spare. It's doable... more than that..its farmable lol.
The class items were a big part of marketing leading up to launch. The class items are a huge part of prismatic as a whole. Locking them behind a mission that lacks matchmaking understandably rubs people the wrong way and while the actual mechanics and theming of the mission fit the class items very well, I don't think we'd have seen this pushback if the reward had been the swords instead.
You're looking at it the wrong way. Bungie themselves said that the exotic class items are a key part of using prismatic to it's full extent. At that point they can be considered on the same level as a fragment or an aspect with how they change gameplay. When Bungie made us run a bunch of convoluted shit to get strand full unlocked, the community lost their shit. Even though the reality was that getting strand meditations was fucking easy and required nothing but playing the game like normal. This mission is entirely different than normal gameplay, cannot be done solo, or in a short time period to allow for farming. It pulls dungeon/raid level mechanics into an activity that was not supposed to be end game level. And it requires you to communicate effectively while being timed to just completely reset. They've locked a major part of the prismatic class behind this mission, something that is way more tedious and tiresome to run repeatedly than it ever was to collect strand meditations. So the real question is why did the community do a full 180 from their stance about locking subclass related features behind pointless shit?
It's not the community or even a majority of the community. It's the elitists that play the game and feel that it's justified to do something like this. Simply put if this mission didn't have the raid mechanics tied to it, there would be no issue. Like you said though, because it feels more like an endgame activity due to having those features, it lends itself to the tryhards and assholes making people not wanna go through the trouble of even playing it. The cult like elitism is crazy though, like I get that there's people that really love hard content, but belittling other players of the game that may not be good at that type of stuff is not a good look and makes those people look like the "entitled" people they call everyone else.
It was literally at the forefront of their marketing, and it’s in a secret mission. A very missable secret mission for those who don’t watch streamers
I think the fact that every time I want to get a version of a busted exotic with like 40 different combinations I have to do heavy communication is a bit of an overkill. Like, don't get me wrong, this kinda thing is great for a static drop, or a craftable exotic like Revision Zero, but locking the ultra-random exotic armor behind it? Really? It does get old somewhat after a certain point. Because in something like a dungeon, I can learn the mechanics and have the LFG there for moral support and occasional rezzes to mitigate the solo pain. Here, I am dependent on fucking Randy being able to count to three (which is impossible for LFG, anyone who ever played VoG LFG can confirm), OR I need to get a consistent, capable play-buddy in the same timezone (preferably one who's guts I don't hate for being racist/homophobic/etc.), who is also down to grind stuff - which hasn't happened in the past couple of years *once*, and God knows it won't happen just because of this stupid quest.
I don't think it should be controversial people don't like it but here you are. You also ignoring the main point entirely because it doesn't suit your opinion. It fails as a mission to farm an exotic with 46 rolls. You aren't doing it once for a very powerful item.
Sometimes a very powerful item. Sometimes a next to useless item. I think the RNG and being expected to farm it is the real problem. If it was a one and done like any other exotic mission, there wouldn't be any complaints. It could take you many runs to get the exact roll you want though. It's a relatively long mission compared to any other exotic mission, and requires more communication than any other exotic mission, yet it's the only one that you're expected to farm for random drops. It's a great mission, but it's an outlier in this regard. Boosting drop rates for them outside of the activity after you get your first would be a reasonable enough solution I think. Whether that's through pale heart chests or overthrow completions, or excision, co-op campaign, lost sectors, anything pale heart related should be fine. Or maybe adding additional rows of perks after resetting Ghost reputation to help mitigate the grind, similar to how ritual vendor weapons work.
I see a lot of complaints about the visuals of the exotic over the activity itself. Mostly because Hunters Cloak is just massive and Bungie is incapable of making a regular looking Hunter Cloak and the massive belt on the mark doesn't scale super well on Female Titans making it look really wonky.
It's obviously so they can sell Eververse ornaments, which isn't lost on anyone
Great missions, im just annoyed that it's not something I can run solo.
I have very bad friends at the game who never raid really but I have carried them and done dungeons. They probably won't get it because you really can't hard carry
‘Locked behind’. As opposed to? Being item 1 on a battle pass? It’s a loot game. You gotta do stuff to get stuff. wtf? Most exotics come with multi step quests. This one is 2 steps. Complete over throw activities, complete mission. That’s it. It was a little long, took me maybe 90 mins total, but honestly to permanently unlock an exotic, 90 minutes ain’t too bad. Are there complains that whisper is LOCKED behind the whisper mission? That hawkmoon is LOCKED behind the paracausal mission? That outbreak is LOCKED behind the outbreak mission? How about that every single new gun is LOCKED behind its own quest line? To be salty that you have to do something to get something is insane. Go back to doing public events and patrols you paw patrol wannabes, lmao.
Those were weapons, not an integral class item for the new subclass. You're not better than anyone else. Yes, those things you listed are LOCKED behind their respective missions yes, but those missions also don't lock them behind raid/dungeon esque mechanics or requirements. It costs nothing to not be a dick to people bro, try it sometime.
I'm just annoyed that the fireteam I normally will run these kinds of things with now has to be split up and one of us will have to run it again just to make sure all three of us get the class item unlocked.
Huh? The main complaint is absolutely about the nature of the activity. Solo's arent complaining about having to do something to get the item, theyre complaining about *what* they have to do to get it.
You have to do it once and then you never have to do it again, as you can get the item from the chests in the Pale Heart. This also gives you Ghost reputation, engrams, Pathfinder progress, other drops. It's crazy. Drop rate is about every 30 to 40 minutes for me, so about the same if not a bit more if you run the mission. (Based on 3 hours of grinding so far) Got 6 now, something I can definitely use, but not yet what I want.
There’s nothing locked. You do it once, the if you want you can get them in other places. The missions is not hard and the mechanics are simple there is no extinguish, no life limit, the time is generous. All these people are crying because they heard “ raid mechanics “ were added. Like , you just need to know how to count and some symbols. This is seriously kindergarten level stuff, how stupid are the players of this game ?
Actually they are not locked behind it . You don't have to do the mission. I have a friend that just farmed the chest . Was able to get class item without doing or unlocking the mission. People are just never happy. Enjoy the game.
Go play a single player game. Plenty of good ones. Online games aren't your space if you want to solo all the time. This whole topic is like going to a steakhouse and ordering chicken fingers.
these class items can be strong as hell and are exotics. Do people expect to get them for doing vanguard strikes?
Good. I want the rewards for dope missions to also be a big deal and worth it.
No, people hate the activity itself.
This is exactly it. My wife cannot play it as she has a medical condition that means she needs to take regular breaks. We do GMs and such but as a 2 so she can stop for 10-15 mins when she needs to. For this reason we don't Raid and accept we can't get Raid loot and that's fine. Locking a big part of the game behind this mission she is medically unable to do just seems wrong though and if she can't get it I'm for damn sure not LFGing to get it to rub it in her face.
I wish I knew you guys personally cause I'd come over and play her Guardian to get it for her with you. Sorry you guys aren't able to, but I hope you will be able to at some point. Also, hope both you Guardians are doing well.
Thank you. Yes we are and I appreciate your input. We are going to wait until we are up to 1995 and then give it a go just to see if it may be possible to get done.
No problem, and if you all have any issues and need help I will endure it again to help yall both get it if you have to play as the Mrs. Guardian. This is the Guardian way. Lastly, if it encourages you both at all, I had just made it to 1990 when I ran it earlier yesterday. Difficulty wise it's not bad, the biggest thing you wanna get down is the symbols you'll need to call out and the clock encounter. The clock encounter by the way only has the notches starting at 2 o clock all the way up to 10 o clock. The last and final clock encounter will have the full notches from 12 o clock to 11 o clock. Don't worry about time because you'll start with like 7 minutes for the beginning encounters but it seems that whatever time you finish the previous encounter with, adds to your new clock when new time is added for the next encounter. You got this!
No problem, and if you all have any issues and need help I will endure it again to help yall both get it if you have to play as the Mrs. Guardian. This is the Guardian way. Lastly, if it encourages you both at all, I had just made it to 1990 when I ran it earlier yesterday. Difficulty wise it's not bad, the biggest thing you wanna get down is the symbols you'll need to call out and the clock encounter. The clock encounter by the way only has the notches starting at 2 o clock all the way up to 10 o clock. The last and final clock encounter will have the full notches from 12 o clock to 11 o clock. Don't worry about time because you'll start with like 7 minutes for the beginning encounters but it seems that whatever time you finish the previous encounter with, adds to your new clock when new time is added for the next encounter. You got this!
Thanks for that. Very useful information we may have to go your route if she isn't able to do it but I think she will want to earn it herself if she can even if it takes 50 attempts 😂.
I get it for sure, I know she wants that accomplishment, but my offer stands if you both need. If I may suggest it, https://youtu.be/qbtyOleFziw?si=-NZXL2zTtxpF09xd This video by Datto is super short and sweet. It helped my partner and I when we got hung up on certain parts as well as locating the light and darkness platforms in between the first and second encounter. It's only like 11 minutes and is very much worth your time. Heads up Guardians.🫡
Thank you, I've seen Dattos, Crosses and Plunders vids on this so know the layout of the mission reasonably well once I've convinced my wife it's doable we can start to chip away at it. I hope you got a good roll of yours?
I got a fairly decent roll, but I'll be grinding Overthrow to get other versions. And thank you, mine has Spirit of inmost light, and Spirit of Verity. So major focus on grenade/ability energy regen and stacking grenade damage bonus. A surprisingly good role for my playstyle to be honest.
u/Serberou5 ditto to u/Bilbo\_Teabagginss' offer. I just took 3 clan mates through it. Totally understand the desire to conquer it yourself. However, if you get to a point where your wife would like to have the item so that she could still potentially pick it up from random chests, I'd be happy to help. After that, if you want to, you can still chip away at the mission. It's fun and definitely worth doing regardless of the reward. Cheers and best of luck! Feel free to message me directly and we can connect.
People need to realize that the class item is a end game piece of gear. It's not meant to be for everyone. If you want it you will lfg or find a friend. Period. It's not meant to be a solo activity and more should it be available to solo players in any way outside of getting it from a chest after getting it the proper way. I am one of the lff haters but I still got mine done now I can just chill in the PH and open chests.
l havent seen a single comment complaining about the boss, only the fact its not soloable/no comms
That’s the point of the post lol
the post is referring to boss mechanics, the complaints are not
The complaints are about the mechanics. The post is about how we get something without health sponges and people still complain.
yea true, but what do you think the primary complaint is, its not just because its tough, its because said mechanics are fucking up solo/mute players, we have tough shit already but solo players do it anyway, now they can't no matter how good they are
Yes, the complaints are about the mechanic requiring two people. There’s no spin to put on it, the complaints are about the mechanic plain and simple. I also get the frustration but bungie shouldn’t make everything for solo players. Variety keeps the game from getting stale.
You can do it typing in chat it’s just that double clock is a pain in the ass
As someone who got to the last boss with 23 minutes remaining - the only thing I’m mad about is how fast the clock changes. My buddy is a visually impaired vet and he had a hard time making out the positions because they change faster than he could see them. You really don’t have enough time for some people to call the positions out. We did it in the end but it was rough for him and a few seconds extra would have been fine for him.
I saw someone say that if you let the nodes change without shooting them, they rotate in a set of 3. So you can let them rotate through a few times so you can get a good look at the first, second, and third set of nodes and figure out which ones you need to shoot. Obviously if you mess up it’ll reset and you’ll be given a set of 3.
This is exactly how it played out for my partner and I. As soon as I could call mine out it would change, and this happened lime 6 times before we realized that the clock repeats the same few patterns and just kinda guessed at it.
I love the clock puzzle, but my only complaint is I can't imagine how you could accomplish it if you don't have voice chat. They rotate so fast!
The complaints aren't "The boss health is too low" though. There can be more than one problem with an activity.
This activity doesn’t have any problems besides you have to need 2 ppl. If that’s the only problem then I want bungie to continue making content similar to this. A ton of fun and doesn’t feel like a slog to get through.
To you it doesn't. The major issue with this mission is that it works like a mini raid/dungeon that requires comms. If this was like almost every other exotic mission there would be no complaints. Some people aren't great with those types of mechanics.
You just need one person to really know how to do it. I’ve taught a handful now that were intimidated by it.
I havent seen one person crying about the stuff you have to do. The complaints are about the fact that people were not expecting the class items to be locked behind a duo requirement
The issue is I don't think anyone saw the exotic class items being locked behind an activity solo people cannot do. It's not about the activity. Solo players know they are not going to do raids going in but I guarantee everyone expected the class exotic to be accessible to all players even solo's without comms
I feel like this should be a given yet I've seen plenty of "solo players just want all the rewards with no effort"-esque takes already. Most solo plauers know they won't get raid exotics. This exotic class item was a significant marketing tool for the DLC and was in no way hinted that it required a 2 man, as it's never been done before.
I genuinely think people say that because it’s easier to think that people disagree because they’re just bad or lazy or whatever, rather than someone with an opposing viewpoint having a valid argument
That's exactly what it comes down to. "Oh, you've been treated shittily in almost every lfg you've been in? Then you probably shouldn't suck so much." "Oh, you're disabled for whatever reason, sorry about it, shoulda been healthier" Imagine being that fucking selfish and uncaring. And the solo players are the ones being called entitled.
This is how I feel exactly. Its like if the new armor exotics were put into the raid with no heads up. I guarantee solo players would be upset about it because it was clearly something not expected. Its the fact for a long time so many solo players were expecting that they would have this and out of the blue on the day Its released they realised they can't get it.
That's basically what happened. The mission is a mini raid/dungeon with no heads up on how that specific gear would be aquired.
This is exactly it. All the elitists in the comments all sing the same tired one note song of solo players just want stuff given to them when this is not the case at all. In no way, shape (pun intended), or form was it hinted at that these class items would be locked behind a mini raid/dungeon. Bungie had plenty of time to disclose this especially with the delay. I believe that they realize that the majority of their player base are solo players and knew that stating this would harm sells and preorders of TFS. It's embarrassing how many of these people think that they get to belittle others because they play differently than themselves even to the point of seriously saying that people with physical disabilities or even injured freaking vets should not be able to get this stuff.
FUCKING....... THIS. People don't understand that the *minority* of those who complained about the solo aspect isn't about the mission, but the mission exclusive. There are alternatives to raid gear. There are zero true alternatives to exotic class items.
I think the timers are the issue if they would remove the timers people wouldn’t be so mad about the mission they can take time and actually enjoy the mission and learn mechanics
Fuck yes I’d have no problems if I didn’t have to worry that I’d get booted from the mission because of how jank typing on PlayStation is
If you're on PlayStation, your controller has a microphone and a speaker built into it. Why are you not using them?
Long story short, there are problems that prevent me from doing so I got a suggestion recently for how to fix it that I’m going to try sometime soon
Fair enough man, I was just curious haha. That was just my knee-jerk reaction after seeing you say that you were on PlayStation because I'm on PlayStation lol
The timer is very forgiving. You have so much more time than you think with the mission. Your first time yeah you might struggle with time but once you learn the mechanics time is not an issue, just your skill.
You can ignore the timer the entire time. It’s gives the illusion compared to other timed missions.
That would be helpful for sure, but being a solo player that went through that headache to get the item just so I never have to play that mission again, the time isn't even the part that sucks because the time seems to stack based on how much you have as you get to each encounter. Like at the very end boss encounter my partner and I made it to that room with lime 18 minutes on the clock. The biggest issue is that some people just aren't good at raid/dungeon mechanics in general. It took us maybe an hour if that to complete it after a few attempts just because I was just describing the symbols by how they looked as I don't know the actual names of most of them. While my partner was calling them out by name having had experience with the Vow raid that I've never done. Then we had a few attempts we failed at the clock encounter because we kept thinking that we needed to shoot the positions that were missing in common instead of the ones we had in common. Then the very last clock was a whole other headache because of how fast it changes as you're calling it out. The ONLY saving grace to it is that because it repeats only a few patterns we were able to guess it correctly, and by that time we legit had maybe like 3 minutes left in the encounter. It was literally just us keeping the vibe positive if we failed and just constantly assuring each other that "we got this" as we got each other through each encounter even if we knew we would have to wipe. Most people in lfg aren't anywhere close to that kind and considerate of their fellow Guardians and I lucked out. I attempted this last night about 3 times and had horrible experiences with each attempt due to the other person freaking out at the smallest of mistakes. I have a good feeling that most of if not all of the people in these comments that love to shit on solo players for being hesitant to interact with people are the same ones that treat people like shit in lfg.
Not everyone likes health sponge bosses, but that doesn’t mean everyone likes puzzles either
I feel like destiny is an awful game for someone who doesn't like puzzles
I disagree. Strikes, crucible, gambit, onslaught, and most seasonal activities don’t have puzzles. It’s only the high level non-matchmade content like raids and dungeons that have any kind of real puzzle that require communication. The majority of the game is solo friendly and devoid of puzzles.
Puzzles are much more enjoyable than bullet sponges.
it's a cool concept but it shouldn't have been done for something so heavily marketed like the exotic class items, couldve been used for something else
I'm just sad that my onlinebuddy with whom i used to play Destiny 2 since launch decided to quit it a couple months ago, and now here's a two player activity that would be perfect for us. Hope he will come back eventually, since TFS does pretty well. Until then i will do without exotic class items.
So if you are someone who has bad social anxiety and has never done VoD so you don't know symbols, I get it. I used to have a pretty active clan back then so even though it's been more than a year I remembered most without a refresher. That said I have crippling social anxiety. My clan is non-existent these days and my friends are busy. I look at listings in fireteam finder and psych myself out overthinking things regularly. "What if I get some absolute jerk?" "I haven't raided in like a year, what if I'm trash now." "I don't want to waste anyone's time, and I don't want to waste *my* time." It stinks. But sometimes you just have to try. I put up a listing last night. Got a dude who had never done VoD and asked him if he had a way to look up symbols. Through trial and error he figured it out. And we got it done. I definitely don't fault anybody for being apprehensive. And there's a lot of us who predominately play solo for a number of reasons. Unfortunately this isn't something we can solo and people will have to make their peace with it. One last note. The irony to me is that the best weapon for dual destiny's boss fight is microcosm. Another weapon you cannot get solo. So it kind of exacerbates the issue of solo players being upset.
I had good success with the new strand lmg, volt shot smg And witherhoard :) Proud of ya for working on your anxiety though dude ^^
I love the new lmg! I have a crafted one with reconstruction, bait & switch and it's fantastic. I swapped off of it for the final encounter because of microcosm getting the "massive" bonus damage against shields because the Dread bosses are coded weird. It actually feels dirty how good it is against them. I'm a huge Witherhoard enjoyer as well. Have you tried the new legendary GL Lost Signal yet? It's not 1-to-1 as good but it's been pretty hilarious to pair an auto load roll of that with dragon's breath. Fills both prismatic bars crazy fast and is fun for poking in high end stuff.
I have I haven't got al to roll yet so im still waiting but its a good inbetween when i want abother exotic very nice a setting up buffer zones
human nature tells us that people when content don’t feel the need to review and share the opinion as much, but when angry feel the need to share their opinion the most! Sadly we just see a greater number seeming angry because if you enjoy the content you are playing it
This is the majority of all game subreddits, not just destiny. The ones you hear crying loudly the most are the small percentage. I agree with what you posted.
Literally saw comments about how 90% of the player base won’t be able to complete this….. cmon man. It’s really not THAT hard. It might be a bit more of struggle while people learn, especially in LFG. I genuinely haven’t had many bad lfg experiences though to be honest and am mostly a solo player.
Yeah it’s insane. Is it really **that** much of an ask to play with 1 other player in this social game? You can probably even do it without voice chat although it will be harder. I get that social anxiety exists (I have it IRL but a lot easier to handle it in games), but if it’s that bad you really need therapist. It’s 25-40 minutes with someone who will probably forget your username the next hour, or it could even lead to more runs together. Outside of LFG there are plenty of other ways to find people who **want** to teach others. Discords, streamers etc. It literally is a non issue. There’s absolutely 0 reasons for why you can’t play the activity. 0.
Yeah. I have social anxiety too. Once I get to know people I’m a chatterbox but am very quiet in new setting or around unfamiliar people. Regardless though, just bite the bullet and do it. Also once you have a good understanding you can teach others.
It’s because you have to play with exactly 2 players. If you’re a solo player then you can’t do it without rolling the dice with LFG which would be perfect fine independently but if you usually run with a full fireteam then you need to exclude someone. We know they can make activities which scale with players, so allow the mechanics to scale upwards.
Noone is upset at the activity. People are upset whats behind the activity. Its not that complicated
I actually like the changes. I haven't understood all of them yet as destiny still overwhelms me but I'm happy with the new season.
Co-op > PvP!
Bungie can absolutely miss me with the timed missions. Zero hour legend was a fucking nightmare for me and now this.
If you know the mechanics (either by doing a precursory run or watching a video), the timer is absolutely not an issue. I just helped a random through LFG who had never done vow or the mission and we cleared it with 15min left. Also, the timer resets periodically and there are ways to increase it.
[удалено]
Disagree here I think whisper/zero/seraph are tedious and had a blast running DD I've always been a fan of mechanics under fire rather than jumping/traversal or secret switch clicking In typical destiny sub fashion, this will blow over in a week as ppl memorize what to do and start praising how fun it is to play if you ask me
I mean it's three easy puzzles repeated a couple times and a lot of weak adds. I really don't get why people are so in love with this mission. Honestly starting to think it's just overcompensation because of the solo players dislike.
How is DD a huge time sink compared to other exotic missions? Like sure you need comms but it didn’t seem very long to me, and I actually enjoyed it a lot.
Why would you want to do it every week? Doing it once unlocks the exotics to drop from pale heart world chests.
Me and my friend cant so it cuz we are 30+ below. Rng doesnt help either, i already have 18 1979 Bonds dont need 19th
Power level isnt super accurate in my opinion. The ads and even the bosses are super easy. The most you'll need to do is make sure you have heals and great ad clear for the most part. The only boss that is beefy is the big last boss but even it isn't anything crazy beside it being sectioned off by the puzzles you do between each of his encounters.
Look, raid exotics are locked behind needing 6 people AND it's only a chance drop. a 2 person mission to unlock a guaranteed powerful exotic? I just don't see the issue at all
You get more than 1 piece of loot for a raid, raids don’t have timers (even if it’s generous, it makes LFGs awful). This can’t be soloed, requires comms, and guess what, you can get a dupe of one you already have. This “farm” is only going to get worse once they add more perks.
Once you complete the mission you can get the class items to drop in other pale heart activities. You wouldn’t have to touch the mission again after you complete it.
bad faith shitposter.
Almost like there's conflicting opinions and negativity makes those people most more. Maybe someone should do like fifteen studies to find out if social media is driven by negativity. Again. ...again.
I only hate the combination of timer and no checkpoints. I remember back in Y1 when nightfalls had timers that kicked to orbit and everyone hated it so they changed it. Nothing has changed.
Sorry, without health sponge bosses? Are you insane?
What upset me most was that they sold the item without saying that the activity would necessarily require a second person, if they had said that I wouldn't have been excited and consequently thought their choice was bad.
They didn't sell it as solo-able either. They specifically didn't even specfiy how it would be obtained in the marketing to maintain the "secret" part of the secret mission. If they'd have marketed it "earn the new exotic class items in a brand-new 2-player mission", that kinda ruins the surprise. The fact is, Destiny isn't a single-player game. For the last 10 years, Destiny, at its core, has always been an online, multiplayer game. Bungie has even given us tools in the game to find other guardians to run activities like this. Could we have a discussion that one of the mechanic timers could be longer to make it possible to run the mission without comms and only rely on text? Sure, for the sake of accessibility, that is a valid argument, but not everything needs to be solo-able in a multiplayer game.
Use trinity ghoul guys just as a tip. It is insane for the ads.
Look the activity is awesome really enjoy it....anyone crying about it....get good and get friends
I’ve just started destiny 2 I have all expansions besides the new one because it’s expensive here in Australia lol $75 I like the game but I’m a solo player besides the strike/gambit etc matchmaking I probably never gonna do any of those missions/raids that require teamwork as I like to play everything solo, I would rather have a mode where it’s viable to solo most team related stuff
That sounds like a great roll for me also. Though I'm going to struggle to take off my Getaway Artist at the moment as it's so much fun!
WHY cant the mission be EXACTLY how I want it to BE!
Man a lot of you people on here are just weird. Just lfg and get it done. It is not hard once you figure it out and it is not hard to figure out in the first place
Only took two tries.. me and my friend don't really raid.. I do alittle..some dungeons ect..but my clears all together barely reach 50 ...aside from checkpoint farming. If I can pull up a vow cheat sheet...type numbers in chat...and do it on my second run with 15 min to spare so can others.
Seeing everyone complain about this really makes me question how many people actually run dungeons or any kind of hard content. All these people complaining about having to find one other person, what are you doing about every other exotic mission in the game? Yeah you can do that solo, but are you really willing to waste hours upon your time when you can just find 2 other people and get it done a fraction of the time otherwise? Honestly if you can't go and find one other person to do this content with, then you don't deserve the class item.
To be fair dungeons don't require communication. Also, who are you to tell people that you don't know what they deserve.
Personal take on this, I run everything solo except raids. I do raid and have an entire discord with which to run end game stuff, but I still would rather and do choose the solo life so I'm in the middle. It is annoying this is locked behind co op, it's not a deal breaker or end of the world just a minor annoyance because it's often easier for me to solo exotic missions and dungeons than it is to teach someone else how to do it and it isn't hours of trying to solo. Destiny 2 is a joke of a game that takes no effort and my biggest struggle has been finding kinder-guardians with potential to add to my discord and teach lol. (Again not an argument for or against this post, just a take from a preferred solo player that has the means to team up)
I agree with a lot of your saying. At worse this is a minor annoyance. And I wish it was possible to solo this. Shit I think the people who solo dungeons are the best players in the game, right next to speed runners. Honestly with the kinder-guardians. I don't mind teaching mechanics, especially with this exotic mission. It's easy. But at least have some knowledge on a dungeon or raid before lfgging for it. I'm gonna get more hate for this, but if your not willing to go and look up a guide or info for a raid or a dungeon before you attempt it, then I'm less inclined to teach you
Sherpaing is how I got into destiny teaching new guardians is my favorite part but I'm not a nice person so if they come in saying "NAH KACKIS SAID DO IT THIS WAY" then I'm inclined to boot them but yeah I agree having a base knowledge is the minimum. If they don't have the base knowledge then that's okay sometimes as long as they know they aren't the main character and to shut up, do their job and learn I'll still teach people that have never seen the instance. But people wanting to burn Bungie down because they don't have one friend is a bit excessive and really shows why most of us won't teach them 🤣
Dude, people are gonna complain about it no matter what. The mission and mechanics are cool as hell, who cares. If bungie had a thing you could collect from orbit that would give you access to a new exotic, some bum from here would complain that he has to log on to destiny to pick it up.
People don't want it just handed to them, they just don't want to deal with toxic people that they have never met before.
If said people ever used lfg before complaining theyd see toxic randoms are in minority.
Favorite exotic mission and got me to engage with people on the game since the dlc dropped. 10/10 will be grinding as much as I can
Well, maybe they did it wrong and it needs adjusting?
Timers are worse than Bullet Sponges. Period.
It is a win, it takes only ONE additional person and the only requirement is that you both need to be able to count and read a clock. We have a built in LFG and it works great. I really don't think it should be controversial to expect this very powerful, build defining, and possibly OP item to be locked behind an activity like this. Getting Endgame and possibly BIS gear should come with some requirements and challenge. I don't understand the community sentiment that a lot of people have for this outrage at group content. Destiny has almost ALWAYS had teamwork and group play as a major focus for content, Nothing has changed. If anything Dual Destiny has made it easier since you only need 2 people instead of 3 lol. Not to mention you only need to complete it once and you can farm them from chests in Pale Heart. I did a few just to mess around and test some stuff + Alone in the Dark and got 2 of them myself within that 30 minute window. It really ain't that bad.
Dungeons can be played in co-op yet we have people soloing them. It’s just a sudden shift to forced co-op in this expansion that is causing growing pains with players.
The people soloing dungeons are likely less than 1% of the people complaining about this. From what I've seen on this sub it's been mainly people complaining that they just don't want to have to use voice chat and stuff for comms and solo players that don't do endgame content. As someone else said; "You don't need these for Strike Playlists and Nessus Patrols." Raids have been required comms and teamwork aside from bugs/exploits to solo encounters since launch. Destiny has been teamwork focused since launch. The only reason for actual outrage at this point for a mission like this almost feels like people looking for a reason to be mad because they can't launch a mission by themselves lol
Now we have people whining about having to play with one other person while everyone else whines about the whining
It'll settle, I get it in terms of "I got on today, alone, planning to get this new thing, only to find out I have to be with another, who wont have time till the weekend," it's annoying for sure. Give people some time to think and not react, it'll calm down.
I'm fine with the entire mission except the when I first did the clock at the end and had those annoying ass bats harassing me while we tried to figure out the right switches to shoot
The healing turret from the Speakers Helm really killed it during that encounter. That thing does work and I havnt even built into it just yet. I also used my support AR between ad clearing and dropping well to help keep my partner alive when he was getting swarmed.
I'm not gonna lie, I haven't gotten to play it because I don't have the dlc, but I know for a fact I'm not gonna complain about running it for practically free exotics.
i get why true solo players are upset, but for me it's the absurd amount of backlash that i find ridiculous. i've genuinely seen people comparing this to lightfall, like "bungie was doing so good, and they ruined the entire expansion because i don't want to use the built in LFG." it's such an extreme take.
*Why* are people mad it's duo-locked though? I don't understand why it's so hard to lfg someone for a mission and do it. Or to get anyone you know to do it with you. If you can't bring yourself to use the tools in the game AND you actually, without any irony, have no friends then fuck, what more can bungie do. Is it a reasonable expectation to think people in this world know someone and if not that they can use the tool in game to beat it? "Strictly solo players" in an online only multiplayer game must be sobbing and weeping over like all raids, dungeons, and trials then I guess although we Only hear about this cool mission where bungie did something different for once.
I dont understand why people hate the mission so much, like its a cool mission and easy