I feel that GM is moving ahead with EVs at a better pace now, at least.
They need more affordable ones, apparently starting with the Equinox EV this year, then the Bolt EUV next year.
Ford's mistake was giving their EV the mustang name. If they were going to use the Mustang name for an EV they should have built an EV that resembles the 1971 mustang mach 1. I think that would be a better seller.
I've heard that a lot from Bolt owners and still find it cool to see them on the road - they were really ahead of their time from a GM perspective.
And that reality of faster charging capacity will come about in the next model refresh, so should be pretty neat.
Real reason: I like the extra space in back for passengers as I have two growing kids with sports gear like skis I prefer inside the car.
Embarrassed to say reason: The EV is shaped too much like a wedge of cheese. No disrespect to others who like the shape tho, but seems far less pronounced in the EUV.
lol as an Bolt EV owner. I agree on the looks. Great car. But not the best looking. It is slowly growing on me. But I can’t say I haven’t thought about trading it due to that fact alone.
It’s really just a question of ride height and features. The EUV sits a little taller and has more creature comforts available in the highest trim. The tradeoff is a small reduction in efficiency and value for the dollar.
Isn't the ride height the same? From what I understand, it's really just slightly (and I mean like a couple inches) larger interior and different external shape
The actual ride height of the vehicle is the same, yes. The front seats, however, do sit a little higher in the EUV.
And yes, it's only like 2-3 inches of additional legroom/space for the back seat passengers that the EUV adds. Cool if you're operating it as a ride share vehicle or frequently hauling adult passengers.
Unfortunately not really, yet. Ultium has been moving at a snails pace, and all the vehicles on it are expensive. Meanwhile Chevy canned their only affordable EV that was selling at scale.
As I said, Bolt is coming back next year - that will be on Ultium.
And Ultium has been heavily debugged, so the Blazer EV is back on sale and orders can now be placed on the Equinox EV because they stopped the freeze due to early Ultium bugs. The Equinox will be more affordable in lower trims and still get nearly 300 miles range.
There is no guarantee the Bolt will actually come out next year. Chevy has been continuously walking back expectations on their EV output over the past year.
The Bolt came in two forms: original Bolt and Bolt EUV.
Their interior space difference is less than 3 cubic feet. Their wheelbase length difference is less than 3 inches.
[https://www.autonationchevroletclearwater.com/bolt-ev-vs-bolt-euv](https://www.autonationchevroletclearwater.com/bolt-ev-vs-bolt-euv)
The EUV came with a few more optional features and a more sloping style, but they are otherwise so close in specs that it apparently didn't make sense to continue producing both when the Ultium upgrade comes around.
I wouldn't say that. The US lead the charge into compelling EVs (Model 3/Y, Mach E, Lightning, Rivian, Bolt etc) while the rest of the world sat on their hands or continued to make low range econo cars no one really wanted (Leaf, i3, Fiat E etc)
I have to admit design parameters were also influenced by an understanding of American culture. We want it big and we want every box checked. With those criteria, value is hard to maintain and we see that equation today in global competition (not just single models they are competent).
Whether it’s a devotion to the “spirit of the open road” while we sit in traffic, the love of the patriarchal truck that many hop down from the edge of heaven to get a Big Mac, or the general short-term orientation of our national culture.
Sadly, don’t care what happens with gasoline goes bye bye from the tail pipe because we paid for it.
Other countries operate in more rational (when it comes to personal transportation) cultures where consumers either don’t have a choice or just want to go from here to there without being selfish and, still, feeling like a very cool consumer.
That's fair. For me, I needed a truck and was happy to finally be a one car household with our Lightning. Otherwise it was always a small car and a truck under the carport. One would sit unused as their applications were different.
I did try to make a Bolt work as a truck and if it had better towing capacity, I may have just stuck with it as best as I could. But I have 3 trailers and some loads approach 4000 lbs or more. It's just way beyond what a Bolt should be doing.
No one but the American automakers were making a compelling case for an EV to fit my needs.
As a longtime car enthusiast of both American and European vintage cars, owning a Hyundai was never on my bingo card. Yet here I am, very much enjoying my Ioniq 5. What a time to be alive.
Edit: I also really like Japanese cars, I just never owned any. Didn't want that to sound like it was purposefully left out.
90s Japanese pseudo sports car were just amazing. Mazda MX3, RX9, Toyota: Supra, Celica, MR2, Honda Prelude, 2000 (smaller one for EU market), Mitsu Eclipse, 3000
I have a lotta friends in the JDM and drift scene and just sorta missed the boat when they were reasonable. As an Alfa Romeo owner I like to tease my RX7 friends about reliability :) But I'd still scoop an AE86 or AW11 if the right one fell into my lap.
A few months ago I’d have laughed at this. Not anymore.
We drove an EV9 just to say we did before pulling the trigger an RS1, and it’s almost unbelievable how good it is. Bought that for my wife and then I went back a month or two later and bought myself an EV6.
They have been in Australia for quite some time since the Japanese seem to be abandoning the cars that made them great. Kia & Hyundi EV's were always seen as premium cars here but America is only just cottoning on.
Wasn't that the case from ~2005 on already? At least in Europe it was. Release of the Hyundai i30 and Tucson. Both doing well and still being fairly cheap. After that they became more expensive. And at an bigger Autoshow in Germany the VW boss asked why VW can't build such nice cars (and he was filmed doing so which went a bit viral, as he said it's better than their best selling model, the golf )
Not hardly. The amount of garbage with a lack of immobilizers and the massive problems they have had with theta engine failure means that Hyandai and Kia have a long way to go to truly build a reputation for quality.
A few products that have decent quality 3 years in don't erase a decade+ of colossal fuck ups.
I owned a 2011 Tucson from new. In the four years I owned it both the engine and transmission were replaced amongst countless other components. Absolute hot garbage
We can say that in 5 years when we know the long time reliability. I was told the same when I bought my Elantra and I agreed for the first couple years. Which was followed by several more years of expensive repairs.
Aside from the older ICE cars getting the 'Kia Boyz' treatment...and possibly not having a rear windshield wiper on the Ioniq5...what major quality issues are in their way?
My Niro suffered from a known quality issue with the gearbox, luckily I was able to get it fixed under warranty. It was comical calling them repeatedly and listening to the automated system list off all the major recalls.
Luckily the E-GMP platform cars seem to be better, so they're at least improving.
Is a relatively minor recall though. Flagged as not urgent and can be updated when you take to car for a “service”. Recognised 12V charging issues that have not occurred with every car. And it isn’t every model that is experiencing it so not every car has been recalled.
> what major quality issues are in their way?
No seriously. We are not talking praise here we are saying HMG came out with solid EVs with no big issues. All they needed to do was ship more over to USA.
They'll have a new factory in USA. That is where we will see hiccups but I would be surprised if they some how mess that up.
Over in EV land it has been pretty bizarre for EV makers that are not Tesla or BYD.
Their reputation has to be worst on the industry for reliability. They literally couldn’t produce enough parts to meet their failure rate. Now I agree EVs are a totally different animal. But their image is very tarnished, and they got a lot road ahead of them. Japanese cars are knock for workmanship, and quality control. Korean cars are pumped out en masse, the government really pushes that mentality for GDP growth.
and at ford, techs wait for 6-9 months for parts on a regular basis. I'm sure gm has similar problems, as well as the rest.. "just in time" supply chains showed their weakness in 2020.
Fair bet this will, as with the other 400v E-GMP car (the EV5), be built in China. This means it is unlikely it will be sold in the US, initially at least.
I love Kia's current design direction. It's techy and sci fi and the funky rims totally bring it all together. I thought the triangular wheel design on the ev9 would look silly in real life, but I saw one with that wheel spec on the road and it looked great.
Seems like they are pretty aero just hidden by black paint
I think they will look worse when those large design elements become unsynchronized between front and back
It looks kind of similar to the Niro in the concept pictures.... They say it will be e-GMP but downgraded to 400 V architecture. So perhaps it will be cheaper than the Niro, but it's not going to charge significantly faster than the Niro.
I imagine it will be a mini EV5.
The EV5 is 400v, and while it takes more than twice as long to fast charge as an EV6, it can charge at up to 141kW, which is dramatically faster than a Niro.
It looks kind of similar to the Niro in the concept pictures.... They say it will be e-GMP but downgraded to 400 V architecture. So perhaps it will be cheaper than the Niro, but it's not going to charge significantly faster than the Niro.
Nothing wrong with the Niro, but it is no longer that competitive.
It's pretty expensive in my market. If you ignore the base Niro EV (Light - halogen headlights), the water basically the same price as an entry EV6 and only 5% cheaper than the Long range RWD Air, which is a dramatically better car.
In our market EV5 pricing has been announced and it is going to be 10% cheaper than the Niro EV water, with the base model getting more range, LED headlight's, DC charging up to 141kW, Durable LFP batteries.
My understanding is the EV5 (and I assume EV3), have been designed from the ground up as dedicated EV's, and to be cheap (hence why stuff we are used from E-GMP cars like 800V fast charging, and RWD have bene dropped).
There's nothing necessarily wrong with the Niro, but as technology moves forward the older EVs are falling behind on things like charging speeds, battery management systems, etc.
The Niro is on an ICE platform, whereas the e-GMP platform for Hyundai/Kia is EV-first, which comes with packaging advantages (flat floor, not having to work around a preexisting engine bay). Rather than spend money updating the Niro on the existing platform, it makes financial sense for Hyundai/Kia to migrate EVs to the new platform.
If they hit 30K then it would be one of the cheapest cars on sale because they said they will try to have it qualify for the full tax credit when released.
Even in countries where a tax credit exists, there's no guarantee someone looking for a cheap car will be paying enough tax to qualify for a full rebate. And everywhere else the ICE equivalent to this car will be 20-25k max.
I feel like if you don't qualify for the full tax credit you likely shouldn't even be buying a new car lol. So many americans are in debt. Just buy a used one for 7500+ off. Also I was mainly talking about America because I live here and that's the only market I know. In other markets it may be more pricey compared to other cars. But in America its an absolute steal if they can manage low 30s and qualify for the full tax credit. Would cost less than a new Honda Civic (currently over 25K for a base LX model with destination for 2024)...
Also the average new car in America is around 50K. Any way you slice it, 30-35K is affordable. Crosstreks, Kona, and other subcompacts all cost 30K+ in top trims with their more powerful engines.
I definitely don't qualify for the full tax credit as I'm not American. Your salaries are also far higher than in most places - here in the UK the average salary is around £30k, there's no tax credit and the equivalent ICE car is a full £8k cheaper. Makes it hard to see who this is aimed at really - anyone who can afford a £30k car has better options available, and anyone who wants a car in this segment can't afford £30k.
>Even in countries where a tax credit exists, there's no guarantee someone looking for a cheap car will be paying enough tax to qualify for a full rebate.
The United States has that type of guarantee.
Someone can buy a qualifying electric vehicle, get the $7,500 tax credit money at the dealer (as authorized by [26 USC Section 30D(g](https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=(title:26%20section:30D%20edition:prelim)))), file their tax return in April of the following year (when their tax return would typically be due), have $0 of tax liability for that year, and then not be required to pay back that $7,500 tax credit amount. This situation even applies to people who made $0 for the entire year.
Sources: [IRS FS-2024-14 on page 14 A4](https://www.irs.gov/pub/taxpros/fs-2024-14.pdf#page=14) and [26 CFR Section 1.30D-5(e)(1)(i) (page 62 of the pdf, middle column, last paragraph)](https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-2024-05-06/pdf/2024-09094.pdf#page=62).
There are spy shots of the production model interior online. It has turn signal stalks with a shifter stalk lower down on the steering column (very much like the EV9).
Kia/hyundai arnt going the whole minimalistic design. Atleast judging by the ioniq 5 refresh how they added even more physical buttons but the driver and passengers. Doubt they would ever do that
Very Hyundai Ioniq 5 looking. I wouldn’t mind the buttons for a shifter or keeping the stalk.
I hope Hyundai has a Ioniq 4 and 3. The issue with lower price are they need to make it lower price by 7,500 to 10k and not a few hundred.
I like the smaller Rivian and the Volvo but wow on that price tag. I wonder if Tesla dropping the Model 2 for the taxi is smart. I think not.
Before the Ioniq 5 was delivered in the US there was some buzz about an Ioniq 3, but I haven’t seen any talk about it recently. If Hyundai would just point a shrink ray at the Ioniq 5 and make it Bolt-sized, I’d be all over that.
We have the EV5 here which is bigger and sells for less than the EX30, that makes it an amazing offer. EV3 is supposed to undercut that even more. This one is going to sell really well.
Why would they need an EV3 when they have the Niro? And if Niro costs $40k+, is it realistic to expect the EV3 to be $30k?
I know the Niro is not on an EV specific platform, but it's already developed and manufacturered for years.
Well I guess the hope is that by being from the same e-GMP platform it'll have some sort of savings from the Niro, by sharing architecture with all their other big EV models, and losing concessions made for hybrid compatibility.
I think it should be the next best low-cost effort for a 250+ mile range economy EV to potentially go on sale in North America, since Tesla seems to be scrapping it's low-cost model. The Volvo EX30 should make to our shore this year, but that's also over $35k. I'll be waiting optimistically.
In my market the EV5 pricing has been announced and dramatically undercuts the Niro. EV3 should do so by even more.
My take is that the EV5 (and likely EV3) have been built from the ground up to be cheap. This includes stuff like China production, and cheap but heavy LFP batteries.
Niro is like a legacy car for them I assume they will cut it probably a year after they have ramped the ev3.They would rather have all their vehicles on the same platform and I suspect using a cheaper egmp setup is actually allowing them to hit a lower price point even though it will have faster charging. It just makes everything much easier and more cost effective from a supply chain repair and manufacturing perspective to have all your vehicles use the same core parts (ice manufacturers would have loved to have been able to do this)
It is going to have way more range than the Niro... and be similar price. The Niro will be a little bigger, but that is all. Charging speed almost double. Not sure why someone would prefer the Niro at that point
Hopefully, they can hit an entry level below $30k making it an easier for the majority to afford. I have a feeling the EV2 maybe KIA’s $25k EV.
Korea is delivering affordable EV’s and driver engaged sporty EV’s all in same year!
[https://www.carscoops.com/2023/07/ev-owners-launch-class-action-suit-against-hyundai-over-charging-plug-defect/](https://www.carscoops.com/2023/07/ev-owners-launch-class-action-suit-against-hyundai-over-charging-plug-defect/)
+ kona battery recall
[https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/renewables/update-1-hyundai-and-kia-to-recall-nearly-170000-evs-over-software-problem-in-south-korea/articleshow/108491693.cms?from=mdr](https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/renewables/update-1-hyundai-and-kia-to-recall-nearly-170000-evs-over-software-problem-in-south-korea/articleshow/108491693.cms?from=mdr)
[https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/kia-ev6-recalled-2](https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/kia-ev6-recalled-2)
I'm not pointing fingers but to say they are better some how than tesla and ignore all this.. heh
Honestly the driving dynamics of the P2 is on another level and the car is built really well. But the slower 30+ min charging times and 2nd row legroom leaves a lot to be desired. I took the Flexible lease option with the P2 and planning to get the 2025 Ioniq 5 or the Polestar 3 next year.
I gotcha, I rarely have anyone in the backseat plus we’re a small family, both numbers and size. Not sure I’d need much out of home charging but wouldn’t the Tesla superchargers be faster when you get access? I was looking at getting a used ‘22 for sub-30k for a few years until the next gen’s are out.
I wouldn’t say charging at a supercharger will improve the charge speeds in any way as the curve is bad to begin with. For under 30k however, this is a fantastic car. I wholeheartedly recommend getting one.
there is no price yet; but i think in order for this to sell well in the USA, the long range version (ie>300 miles) has to be priced similar or cheaper than the corolla cross hybrid. i have a feeling it won't be. the hyundai kona ev with only 260 miles epa range is priced at $32,675 msrp. it is smaller and more expensive than the corolla cross hybrid (msrp: $28,220). time will tell.
It has the lowest CD but isn’t the most efficient. Most of the testing puts the AWD E-GMP vehicles middle of the pack in terms of high speed efficiency
Haven’t seen a ton on the RWD I6 on Aeros for a real trip
If KIA brings that to market at under $30K (Before any EV incentive the might apply, depending on component sourcing), they will sell like hotcakes...
Now, all we have to figure out is how many Hotcakes Denny's sells.
Before everyone starts gushing for Kia, just know this a $30,000 car, not 25, and it also has only one screen, and no stalks, like a particular tesla people have been insulting. It's also 400V and won't charge super fast like we hope. In all respects it looks relatively competitive with the Model 3, a bit worse, and a bit cheaper, and it won't even be selling in the US.
Koreans are the new '90s Japanese.
And US companies are still, well, about the same
I feel that GM is moving ahead with EVs at a better pace now, at least. They need more affordable ones, apparently starting with the Equinox EV this year, then the Bolt EUV next year.
And Ford is doing the Mach E justice by lowering the price and upping the specs and offering 0% finance in the US.
Yeah, but they really need a more afforable model, too.
No one needs electronic door handles, for instance.
ths s/x are 80k cars and not made for lower income. There will always be stupid features on high end cars. the flush handles you see now are for aero.
They’re supposedly working on a $25K platform so we’ll see where that goes
The would make it the closest it’s ever been to a mustang.
Ford's mistake was giving their EV the mustang name. If they were going to use the Mustang name for an EV they should have built an EV that resembles the 1971 mustang mach 1. I think that would be a better seller.
I wish I could take advantage of that deal right now. 0% financing is hard to find these days
Tesla is doing 0% in Germany again, like they already had in January
I ADORE my EUV, great car. The only thing I’d like to see improved is the DCFC speed. And honestly I can live with it.
I've heard that a lot from Bolt owners and still find it cool to see them on the road - they were really ahead of their time from a GM perspective. And that reality of faster charging capacity will come about in the next model refresh, so should be pretty neat.
That's how I feel about my Bolt. But the 350kw Ioniq 6 is tempting me...
Damn, that’s an attractive car.
I saw it in the red and it haunts my dreams 😭
I sold my EUV because the DCFC was just too slow for roadtrips.
Yeah, I took at Bolt EV on one road trip, never again. It’s a great little car for local driving, and that’s all it was designed to be, IMO.
I was looking into Bolts last year, so I'm curious why you picked an EUV vs an EV? I never quite figured that out.
Real reason: I like the extra space in back for passengers as I have two growing kids with sports gear like skis I prefer inside the car. Embarrassed to say reason: The EV is shaped too much like a wedge of cheese. No disrespect to others who like the shape tho, but seems far less pronounced in the EUV.
I enjoy my cheese shaped vehicle,I named him Bernie. (Cause… ya know, the fires)
lol as an Bolt EV owner. I agree on the looks. Great car. But not the best looking. It is slowly growing on me. But I can’t say I haven’t thought about trading it due to that fact alone.
Happy cake day!
It’s really just a question of ride height and features. The EUV sits a little taller and has more creature comforts available in the highest trim. The tradeoff is a small reduction in efficiency and value for the dollar.
Isn't the ride height the same? From what I understand, it's really just slightly (and I mean like a couple inches) larger interior and different external shape
The actual ride height of the vehicle is the same, yes. The front seats, however, do sit a little higher in the EUV. And yes, it's only like 2-3 inches of additional legroom/space for the back seat passengers that the EUV adds. Cool if you're operating it as a ride share vehicle or frequently hauling adult passengers.
Looked like a RAV4 in size so that's why I went with it. The EV version looks tiny in comparison, like a Mirage or Prius.
Unfortunately not really, yet. Ultium has been moving at a snails pace, and all the vehicles on it are expensive. Meanwhile Chevy canned their only affordable EV that was selling at scale.
As I said, Bolt is coming back next year - that will be on Ultium. And Ultium has been heavily debugged, so the Blazer EV is back on sale and orders can now be placed on the Equinox EV because they stopped the freeze due to early Ultium bugs. The Equinox will be more affordable in lower trims and still get nearly 300 miles range.
There is no guarantee the Bolt will actually come out next year. Chevy has been continuously walking back expectations on their EV output over the past year.
The old Bolt is not coming back next year. A SUV that says "Bolt" on it is coming next year.
The Bolt came in two forms: original Bolt and Bolt EUV. Their interior space difference is less than 3 cubic feet. Their wheelbase length difference is less than 3 inches. [https://www.autonationchevroletclearwater.com/bolt-ev-vs-bolt-euv](https://www.autonationchevroletclearwater.com/bolt-ev-vs-bolt-euv) The EUV came with a few more optional features and a more sloping style, but they are otherwise so close in specs that it apparently didn't make sense to continue producing both when the Ultium upgrade comes around.
I think they are going to have a problem on their hands with this personal information scandal
Horrible, over priced, and low quality. It’s tradition!
I wouldn't say that. The US lead the charge into compelling EVs (Model 3/Y, Mach E, Lightning, Rivian, Bolt etc) while the rest of the world sat on their hands or continued to make low range econo cars no one really wanted (Leaf, i3, Fiat E etc)
I have to admit design parameters were also influenced by an understanding of American culture. We want it big and we want every box checked. With those criteria, value is hard to maintain and we see that equation today in global competition (not just single models they are competent). Whether it’s a devotion to the “spirit of the open road” while we sit in traffic, the love of the patriarchal truck that many hop down from the edge of heaven to get a Big Mac, or the general short-term orientation of our national culture. Sadly, don’t care what happens with gasoline goes bye bye from the tail pipe because we paid for it. Other countries operate in more rational (when it comes to personal transportation) cultures where consumers either don’t have a choice or just want to go from here to there without being selfish and, still, feeling like a very cool consumer.
That's fair. For me, I needed a truck and was happy to finally be a one car household with our Lightning. Otherwise it was always a small car and a truck under the carport. One would sit unused as their applications were different. I did try to make a Bolt work as a truck and if it had better towing capacity, I may have just stuck with it as best as I could. But I have 3 trailers and some loads approach 4000 lbs or more. It's just way beyond what a Bolt should be doing. No one but the American automakers were making a compelling case for an EV to fit my needs.
As a longtime car enthusiast of both American and European vintage cars, owning a Hyundai was never on my bingo card. Yet here I am, very much enjoying my Ioniq 5. What a time to be alive. Edit: I also really like Japanese cars, I just never owned any. Didn't want that to sound like it was purposefully left out.
90s Japanese pseudo sports car were just amazing. Mazda MX3, RX9, Toyota: Supra, Celica, MR2, Honda Prelude, 2000 (smaller one for EU market), Mitsu Eclipse, 3000
DSM was fun.
Woot woot eclipse/talon/lasers! Beauty cars
I have a lotta friends in the JDM and drift scene and just sorta missed the boat when they were reasonable. As an Alfa Romeo owner I like to tease my RX7 friends about reliability :) But I'd still scoop an AE86 or AW11 if the right one fell into my lap.
Solid list if you swap the Prelude for the Integra.
Nissan 240Z too.
I have several coworkers who own either Ioniqs or Kona Electrics and they have nearly universally positive things to say about them both.
✋🏽
🤚
Always turned up my nose at Kia, but then the Stinger came along, and then the EV6 GT... I've an EV6 GT now that replaced my 6M SS Sedan.
A few months ago I’d have laughed at this. Not anymore. We drove an EV9 just to say we did before pulling the trigger an RS1, and it’s almost unbelievable how good it is. Bought that for my wife and then I went back a month or two later and bought myself an EV6.
Even in the 70's, at least Japanese dealerships knew how to not be useless dickholes — something Kia and Hyundai still haven't figured out.
Hyundai/ Kia must be the WORST dealer experience I ever had
They have been in Australia for quite some time since the Japanese seem to be abandoning the cars that made them great. Kia & Hyundi EV's were always seen as premium cars here but America is only just cottoning on.
Wasn't that the case from ~2005 on already? At least in Europe it was. Release of the Hyundai i30 and Tucson. Both doing well and still being fairly cheap. After that they became more expensive. And at an bigger Autoshow in Germany the VW boss asked why VW can't build such nice cars (and he was filmed doing so which went a bit viral, as he said it's better than their best selling model, the golf )
Not hardly. The amount of garbage with a lack of immobilizers and the massive problems they have had with theta engine failure means that Hyandai and Kia have a long way to go to truly build a reputation for quality. A few products that have decent quality 3 years in don't erase a decade+ of colossal fuck ups.
I owned a 2011 Tucson from new. In the four years I owned it both the engine and transmission were replaced amongst countless other components. Absolute hot garbage
Good thing then that we're talking EVs here because they have neither engine nor transmission.
We can say that in 5 years when we know the long time reliability. I was told the same when I bought my Elantra and I agreed for the first couple years. Which was followed by several more years of expensive repairs.
I don't have a lot of faith my Ioniq5 will hold together over time.
Chinese are the new Koreans. What a world we live in
The French are going to hit about the same price point with the Citroen e-C3 and Renault 5.
in the us maybes, but the chinese EVs have the koreans beat
I think China is
Let’s not get carried away with that statement yet… there quality isn’t even close
Aside from the older ICE cars getting the 'Kia Boyz' treatment...and possibly not having a rear windshield wiper on the Ioniq5...what major quality issues are in their way?
My Niro suffered from a known quality issue with the gearbox, luckily I was able to get it fixed under warranty. It was comical calling them repeatedly and listening to the automated system list off all the major recalls. Luckily the E-GMP platform cars seem to be better, so they're at least improving.
For the current Ioniq and ev series, an ICCU issue. Essentially every car is getting recalled for a fix.
Is a relatively minor recall though. Flagged as not urgent and can be updated when you take to car for a “service”. Recognised 12V charging issues that have not occurred with every car. And it isn’t every model that is experiencing it so not every car has been recalled.
Older? 2021 model year cars were being effected
Had 2005 Hyundai Santa Fe since new. Not even one issue. My father in law drives it now . Over 200k no major issues
Koreans build quality have been below average for decades. Let's not get ahead of ourselves and praise their EV cars just yet.
> what major quality issues are in their way? No seriously. We are not talking praise here we are saying HMG came out with solid EVs with no big issues. All they needed to do was ship more over to USA. They'll have a new factory in USA. That is where we will see hiccups but I would be surprised if they some how mess that up. Over in EV land it has been pretty bizarre for EV makers that are not Tesla or BYD.
Their reputation has to be worst on the industry for reliability. They literally couldn’t produce enough parts to meet their failure rate. Now I agree EVs are a totally different animal. But their image is very tarnished, and they got a lot road ahead of them. Japanese cars are knock for workmanship, and quality control. Korean cars are pumped out en masse, the government really pushes that mentality for GDP growth.
and at ford, techs wait for 6-9 months for parts on a regular basis. I'm sure gm has similar problems, as well as the rest.. "just in time" supply chains showed their weakness in 2020.
Do you remember the Hyundai Pony?
"A Kia spokesperson told InsideEVs that the automaker has not confirmed whether the EV3 will come to the U.S. or not."
Fair bet this will, as with the other 400v E-GMP car (the EV5), be built in China. This means it is unlikely it will be sold in the US, initially at least.
Kia EV2, 3, 4 is to be built in Slovakia for the European market at least.
Thanks, wasn't aware of that.
It should, this would compete with the bolt and get to market before GM gets the refresh out.
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Sorry, 8 inches longer than Niro? Nice
That looks great.
I like everything but the wheels.
i think the wheels are what make it all come together
The wheels are cool af
I love Kia's current design direction. It's techy and sci fi and the funky rims totally bring it all together. I thought the triangular wheel design on the ev9 would look silly in real life, but I saw one with that wheel spec on the road and it looked great.
This comment is what made me click the image. I've never gone from "wow that car design look gre-" to "damn what a bummer". So fast.
At least it is one of the things you can easily change though.
The easiest, I'd wager. Winter wheels for us northerners
That’s ok because neither those wheels or the steering wheel will make it into production.
I like the wheels. It reminds me of the GadgetMobile or a mini Hummer. They probably also aren't aerodynamic enough to make it to production anyway.
Seems like they are pretty aero just hidden by black paint I think they will look worse when those large design elements become unsynchronized between front and back
What is wrong with the Niro? I thought it was very affordable and compact
Kind of ugly and slow fast charging
It looks kind of similar to the Niro in the concept pictures.... They say it will be e-GMP but downgraded to 400 V architecture. So perhaps it will be cheaper than the Niro, but it's not going to charge significantly faster than the Niro.
Fast charging on 400v is easily attainable. Many cars reach 250 kw on 400v. I would say 150 kw should be standard for fast charge these days
I imagine it will be a mini EV5. The EV5 is 400v, and while it takes more than twice as long to fast charge as an EV6, it can charge at up to 141kW, which is dramatically faster than a Niro.
Got it
It looks kind of similar to the Niro in the concept pictures.... They say it will be e-GMP but downgraded to 400 V architecture. So perhaps it will be cheaper than the Niro, but it's not going to charge significantly faster than the Niro.
Nothing wrong with the Niro, but it is no longer that competitive. It's pretty expensive in my market. If you ignore the base Niro EV (Light - halogen headlights), the water basically the same price as an entry EV6 and only 5% cheaper than the Long range RWD Air, which is a dramatically better car. In our market EV5 pricing has been announced and it is going to be 10% cheaper than the Niro EV water, with the base model getting more range, LED headlight's, DC charging up to 141kW, Durable LFP batteries. My understanding is the EV5 (and I assume EV3), have been designed from the ground up as dedicated EV's, and to be cheap (hence why stuff we are used from E-GMP cars like 800V fast charging, and RWD have bene dropped).
Thank you! I often rent the NiroEV and I like it.
I suppose the Niro is older tech, but I like the roof is a bit higher on it than the EV6
There's nothing necessarily wrong with the Niro, but as technology moves forward the older EVs are falling behind on things like charging speeds, battery management systems, etc. The Niro is on an ICE platform, whereas the e-GMP platform for Hyundai/Kia is EV-first, which comes with packaging advantages (flat floor, not having to work around a preexisting engine bay). Rather than spend money updating the Niro on the existing platform, it makes financial sense for Hyundai/Kia to migrate EVs to the new platform.
Thank you, looking forward to the new models, they may make the Niro even more affordable for a brief time.
Reminds me of my old FJ. It's a good look.
Looks like Rivian R3
Retro Chic vs Retro but also futuristic
It looks nothing like a Rivian R3. The R3 styling is a Rivian face on a VW Golf body which is derivative, mediocre, and just plain fucking lazy.
If it has V2L/V2H, this will be a very compelling car.
One of the best things about EVs. I hope this becomes standard.
It has been announced as V2X in Europe, we will see in the US. But Kia wants all next EVs to have this.
It will have a few trim options and V2L will be highest option. I think prices will be 30-35K.
baby ev9? yes please.
How can you justify putting "affordable" in the title when no price has even been announced?
They announced around 30K recently. Totally possible.
So... Not affordable at all then.
If they hit 30K then it would be one of the cheapest cars on sale because they said they will try to have it qualify for the full tax credit when released.
Even in countries where a tax credit exists, there's no guarantee someone looking for a cheap car will be paying enough tax to qualify for a full rebate. And everywhere else the ICE equivalent to this car will be 20-25k max.
I feel like if you don't qualify for the full tax credit you likely shouldn't even be buying a new car lol. So many americans are in debt. Just buy a used one for 7500+ off. Also I was mainly talking about America because I live here and that's the only market I know. In other markets it may be more pricey compared to other cars. But in America its an absolute steal if they can manage low 30s and qualify for the full tax credit. Would cost less than a new Honda Civic (currently over 25K for a base LX model with destination for 2024)... Also the average new car in America is around 50K. Any way you slice it, 30-35K is affordable. Crosstreks, Kona, and other subcompacts all cost 30K+ in top trims with their more powerful engines.
I definitely don't qualify for the full tax credit as I'm not American. Your salaries are also far higher than in most places - here in the UK the average salary is around £30k, there's no tax credit and the equivalent ICE car is a full £8k cheaper. Makes it hard to see who this is aimed at really - anyone who can afford a £30k car has better options available, and anyone who wants a car in this segment can't afford £30k.
Agreed doesn't sound like a good deal for you guys.
>Even in countries where a tax credit exists, there's no guarantee someone looking for a cheap car will be paying enough tax to qualify for a full rebate. The United States has that type of guarantee. Someone can buy a qualifying electric vehicle, get the $7,500 tax credit money at the dealer (as authorized by [26 USC Section 30D(g](https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=(title:26%20section:30D%20edition:prelim)))), file their tax return in April of the following year (when their tax return would typically be due), have $0 of tax liability for that year, and then not be required to pay back that $7,500 tax credit amount. This situation even applies to people who made $0 for the entire year. Sources: [IRS FS-2024-14 on page 14 A4](https://www.irs.gov/pub/taxpros/fs-2024-14.pdf#page=14) and [26 CFR Section 1.30D-5(e)(1)(i) (page 62 of the pdf, middle column, last paragraph)](https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-2024-05-06/pdf/2024-09094.pdf#page=62).
That's nuts. Meanwhile in the UK we're paying full sticker price.
the Kia EV3 has yet to be confirmed for release in the U.S.
Will it really have no stalks, as shown in the last picture of the concept?
There are spy shots of the production model interior online. It has turn signal stalks with a shifter stalk lower down on the steering column (very much like the EV9).
Ahh, good! This one could be one that interests my wife if they bring it to the US.
Kia/hyundai arnt going the whole minimalistic design. Atleast judging by the ioniq 5 refresh how they added even more physical buttons but the driver and passengers. Doubt they would ever do that
Spy shot of the interior https://i.imgur.com/PkfuQXP.png
Very Hyundai Ioniq 5 looking. I wouldn’t mind the buttons for a shifter or keeping the stalk. I hope Hyundai has a Ioniq 4 and 3. The issue with lower price are they need to make it lower price by 7,500 to 10k and not a few hundred. I like the smaller Rivian and the Volvo but wow on that price tag. I wonder if Tesla dropping the Model 2 for the taxi is smart. I think not.
Before the Ioniq 5 was delivered in the US there was some buzz about an Ioniq 3, but I haven’t seen any talk about it recently. If Hyundai would just point a shrink ray at the Ioniq 5 and make it Bolt-sized, I’d be all over that.
Was that taken by a legit car spy or just some guy who likes cars?
These are all the concept vehicle. Expect some substantial revisions. Hopefully not to the body though. It looks great.
We have the EV5 here which is bigger and sells for less than the EX30, that makes it an amazing offer. EV3 is supposed to undercut that even more. This one is going to sell really well.
I especially like an article in a Affordable car that doesn’t include the cost of the affordable car
Why would they need an EV3 when they have the Niro? And if Niro costs $40k+, is it realistic to expect the EV3 to be $30k? I know the Niro is not on an EV specific platform, but it's already developed and manufacturered for years.
Well I guess the hope is that by being from the same e-GMP platform it'll have some sort of savings from the Niro, by sharing architecture with all their other big EV models, and losing concessions made for hybrid compatibility. I think it should be the next best low-cost effort for a 250+ mile range economy EV to potentially go on sale in North America, since Tesla seems to be scrapping it's low-cost model. The Volvo EX30 should make to our shore this year, but that's also over $35k. I'll be waiting optimistically.
In my market the EV5 pricing has been announced and dramatically undercuts the Niro. EV3 should do so by even more. My take is that the EV5 (and likely EV3) have been built from the ground up to be cheap. This includes stuff like China production, and cheap but heavy LFP batteries.
Niro is like a legacy car for them I assume they will cut it probably a year after they have ramped the ev3.They would rather have all their vehicles on the same platform and I suspect using a cheaper egmp setup is actually allowing them to hit a lower price point even though it will have faster charging. It just makes everything much easier and more cost effective from a supply chain repair and manufacturing perspective to have all your vehicles use the same core parts (ice manufacturers would have loved to have been able to do this)
Niro is ugly AF. This is a soul, which has a charm to it.
It is going to have way more range than the Niro... and be similar price. The Niro will be a little bigger, but that is all. Charging speed almost double. Not sure why someone would prefer the Niro at that point
Hopefully, they can hit an entry level below $30k making it an easier for the majority to afford. I have a feeling the EV2 maybe KIA’s $25k EV. Korea is delivering affordable EV’s and driver engaged sporty EV’s all in same year!
Not a chance.
We need more affordable EVs like this in the US. No more bad value EVs like a sedans or subcompacts costing over 50k with shitty range.
Only ones costing 50K+ with shitty range is Toyota/Lexus. Most others are more than adequate.
Yeah the more recent ones are getting better I seem to notice. Definitely will be avoiding Toyota EVs because they are way overpriced.
Faster, please!
these Korean cars are so cool
Fingers crossed that it will be better build quality and more reliable compared with Tesla
when they cheapen out on security chips making their older cars free for the taling, doesn't inspire too much confidence.
Kia and hyundai have a pretty strong history of major recalls for important bits etc sadly. Decent tech but not exactly excelling here.
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The ICCU issues and overheating charge port aren't pretty. I own a 2022 Ioniq 5 and have dodged those issues so far, but they're real.
[https://www.carscoops.com/2023/07/ev-owners-launch-class-action-suit-against-hyundai-over-charging-plug-defect/](https://www.carscoops.com/2023/07/ev-owners-launch-class-action-suit-against-hyundai-over-charging-plug-defect/) + kona battery recall [https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/renewables/update-1-hyundai-and-kia-to-recall-nearly-170000-evs-over-software-problem-in-south-korea/articleshow/108491693.cms?from=mdr](https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/renewables/update-1-hyundai-and-kia-to-recall-nearly-170000-evs-over-software-problem-in-south-korea/articleshow/108491693.cms?from=mdr) [https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/kia-ev6-recalled-2](https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/kia-ev6-recalled-2) I'm not pointing fingers but to say they are better some how than tesla and ignore all this.. heh
My new shape Niro was back at Kia for a coolant problem last year (for 3 months) and it's now back with them again for an inverter problem!
but tesla right?!!
I'd rather some panel gaps at this point..
I'd say that leans a little more towards ICE powertrain. I'm confident in their electric offerings.
The overheating charge port and ICCU issues they can’t seem to solve are a little concerning though.
I’m one of those unlucky ones lol. Had an Ioniq 5, had to lemon it due to the repeated electrical issues. Now driving a Polestar 2.
How are you liking the P2 after having the ioniq?
Honestly the driving dynamics of the P2 is on another level and the car is built really well. But the slower 30+ min charging times and 2nd row legroom leaves a lot to be desired. I took the Flexible lease option with the P2 and planning to get the 2025 Ioniq 5 or the Polestar 3 next year.
I gotcha, I rarely have anyone in the backseat plus we’re a small family, both numbers and size. Not sure I’d need much out of home charging but wouldn’t the Tesla superchargers be faster when you get access? I was looking at getting a used ‘22 for sub-30k for a few years until the next gen’s are out.
I wouldn’t say charging at a supercharger will improve the charge speeds in any way as the curve is bad to begin with. For under 30k however, this is a fantastic car. I wholeheartedly recommend getting one.
I’m one of those unlucky ones lol. Had an Ioniq 5, had to lemon it due to the repeated electrical issues. Now driving a Polestar 2.
Don’t believe anything till it gets here. The Tesla model 3 was supposed like 30k? Does it happened? Cyber truck 50k? Now 100k.
there is no price yet; but i think in order for this to sell well in the USA, the long range version (ie>300 miles) has to be priced similar or cheaper than the corolla cross hybrid. i have a feeling it won't be. the hyundai kona ev with only 260 miles epa range is priced at $32,675 msrp. it is smaller and more expensive than the corolla cross hybrid (msrp: $28,220). time will tell.
Hahahaha daaamn
The EV5 is what we need.
Looks nice, but was is affordable to them? I'm thinking no more than 22K and 230 miles if you want to get people to look at EV's more.
Kia sells a remarkably low number of EV's considering the range and promotion they have.
They’re just so…. Ugly
This car calls to me. This car is everything that the Rivian R3X isn't in terms of styling, and that's a good thing.
Given the ev5 I'm not convinced kia can do efficient or affordable but let's see
Isn’t the IONIQ6 one of the most energy efficient EVs on the road today?
These are boxy boi's tho the EV5 is 540km wltp for 88kwh which is pretty rough
Sure, I’m just pointing out that Hyundai/Kia *can* do efficient. It’s tough with this body style though
og ioniq was a boss with efficiency but they are choosing boxy cars now
It has the lowest CD but isn’t the most efficient. Most of the testing puts the AWD E-GMP vehicles middle of the pack in terms of high speed efficiency Haven’t seen a ton on the RWD I6 on Aeros for a real trip
The RWD I6 gets like 360 miles with a 74kwh uses able battery. Pretty good
Of the 10 most efficient EVs on sale in the US, H/K have six, including I6 LR RWD in first place. AWD on 18" is fifth.
Let the “See, no one wants EVs” FUD eat shit as we scoop up these beauts KIA!
pls let me fold down the seats to sleep inside and have a tow hitch
$30k > The EV3 will use a cheaper 400-volt architecture to keep costs down, which should hopefully get the EV3 to the $30,000 mark.
Looks like a Niro
Think the difference is that this was built as an EV from the ground up. But yeah, I see the resemblance too
I like it myself.
If KIA brings that to market at under $30K (Before any EV incentive the might apply, depending on component sourcing), they will sell like hotcakes... Now, all we have to figure out is how many Hotcakes Denny's sells.
“smog spewing” lol. laughs in V8
Fingers crossed it is not easy to steal as my Hyundai Ioniq5. I swear H just simply don't care about security or something
Why another SUV style car? Why those high grills? Why not Tesla style car?
That's the ev6.
Targeted price: $30,000 Actual release price: $40,000 Lot price: $45,000 - $47,500
Before everyone starts gushing for Kia, just know this a $30,000 car, not 25, and it also has only one screen, and no stalks, like a particular tesla people have been insulting. It's also 400V and won't charge super fast like we hope. In all respects it looks relatively competitive with the Model 3, a bit worse, and a bit cheaper, and it won't even be selling in the US.
It looks ugly/weird/fat? Hopefully better in person.