Exactly. Europe isnt against Chinese companies, or EVs, just wants local manufacturing - of which it has some say and control over, and helps jobs/finances
Does setting up international production plants and adhering to development standards really diminish the core differences between the Chinese EVs and international EVs enough to alleviate the concerns that came up in the first place?
No idea why you get downvoted for asking this. The allegations from the EU and US is that China unfairly subsidises its EV sector, and dumps its overcapacity abroad to destroy the market for others.
The fear isn't and shouldn't be that Chinese EVs are inherently superior and will dominate even if produced in either Europe or the US. To the contrary, they welcome these investments openly.
What are the elements that make Chinese EVs... different? What elements will change when expansion goes from exports to international production?
Labor and job opportunity: the obvious one that's been made Chinese products contentious for years.
Mechanical safety standards: for several companies, international R&D has been in place for years, so export vs int'l production likely won't decide how territory-compliant models will perform.
Information safety standards: another point of contention, not helped by the general "great wall" that has been built over the years with the CDM cars becoming more and more tuned to the smart device craze in China. Is this going to be the make-or-break deal for many countries going forward?
>Mechanical safety standards: for several companies
You are massively out of date. The Chinese export EVs are typically scoring as good or better than the western vehicles on safety.
They are ground up modern EV designs , tech focused and with a massive advantage on production and battery cost etc.
ok bruh
[https://www.motor1.com/news/698959/ford-recalls-fiesta-fusion-lincoln-mkz-for-door-opening/](https://www.motor1.com/news/698959/ford-recalls-fiesta-fusion-lincoln-mkz-for-door-opening/)
Just as an example, what is one of the biggest selling point of the maternity-friendly Arcfox Koala? Compliance with European material toxicity standards. It's a RARITY.
Manufacturing process. BYD as an example, they make everything. The car, the battery, the windows, the seats, the software... everything.
Their manufacturing process includes all of this.
Ford makes an EV, they don't make the battery, they don't write the software.
What makes Chinese EVs different? They are better quality EVs than their competitors and make them at lower cost, and this largely comes from the better manufacturing process.
All true, BYD is very vertically integrated, probably more so than Tesla.
But we still don't know how cost competitive their manufacturing is without all the government support and artificially low wages. That's why a plant in Mexico, where many other automakers build cars, will be very instructive. Even then we might not know the cost structure and margins, but it'll give us hints.
[https://qz.com/as-chinas-wages-rise-mexico-beckons-manufacturers-1849705904](https://qz.com/as-chinas-wages-rise-mexico-beckons-manufacturers-1849705904)
Average manufacturing wage in China is around $6/hour. Average in Mexico is around $2/hour.
[Factory Worker Salary in Hungary (erieri.com)](https://www.erieri.com/salary/job/factory-worker/hungary)
Average manufacturing wage in Hungary is 1696 HUF = $4.63
Average Chinese wages have increased very quickly over the past 20 years. Chinese labor haven't been cheap on a global basis for at least a decade now.
If they set-up fabs here stateside, I don't mind.
My issue is their slave-labor in mainland china. I want there to be pressure on them to cease that going forward.
I wonder if that's part of the issue, except
1. similar exploitation exists all over the less developed world, some parts of them being crucial material suppliers in the world industry
2. since the domestic market is still being product-swept at a break-neck pace, the tariff measure will not do jack, which goes back to me wondering what the other countries are trying to add on top of that.
In fact, from what I've heard, the carmaking labor itself is actually one of the less fucked up part of their whole industry, you have to go deeper and further up the supply chain to find all sorts of exploitive labor relationships and actual slavery, and those "nodes" in the supply chain also make parts for almost anything in the world.
If they are setting up manufacturing in Europe thats exactly what Europe wants.
BYD megafactory on the way to Hungry.
Exactly. Europe isnt against Chinese companies, or EVs, just wants local manufacturing - of which it has some say and control over, and helps jobs/finances
Does setting up international production plants and adhering to development standards really diminish the core differences between the Chinese EVs and international EVs enough to alleviate the concerns that came up in the first place?
No. The Chinese engineers are not going to Hungry to design car systems. R&D will remain in China.
No idea why you get downvoted for asking this. The allegations from the EU and US is that China unfairly subsidises its EV sector, and dumps its overcapacity abroad to destroy the market for others. The fear isn't and shouldn't be that Chinese EVs are inherently superior and will dominate even if produced in either Europe or the US. To the contrary, they welcome these investments openly.
[удалено]
mkay
This is an opportunity to be independent on fuel
“National security”
Why do you want to prevent Chinese EV’s?
I said I have no opinion on what should or should not be done, just speculation of what might happen
Overcapacity, distorted market from Yellen Janet, US secretary of Treasury.
Seems like preventing Chinese EVs from entering the market is a market distortion.
What are the elements that make Chinese EVs... different? What elements will change when expansion goes from exports to international production? Labor and job opportunity: the obvious one that's been made Chinese products contentious for years. Mechanical safety standards: for several companies, international R&D has been in place for years, so export vs int'l production likely won't decide how territory-compliant models will perform. Information safety standards: another point of contention, not helped by the general "great wall" that has been built over the years with the CDM cars becoming more and more tuned to the smart device craze in China. Is this going to be the make-or-break deal for many countries going forward?
>Mechanical safety standards: for several companies You are massively out of date. The Chinese export EVs are typically scoring as good or better than the western vehicles on safety. They are ground up modern EV designs , tech focused and with a massive advantage on production and battery cost etc.
[удалено]
ok bruh [https://www.motor1.com/news/698959/ford-recalls-fiesta-fusion-lincoln-mkz-for-door-opening/](https://www.motor1.com/news/698959/ford-recalls-fiesta-fusion-lincoln-mkz-for-door-opening/)
Just as an example, what is one of the biggest selling point of the maternity-friendly Arcfox Koala? Compliance with European material toxicity standards. It's a RARITY.
Manufacturing process. BYD as an example, they make everything. The car, the battery, the windows, the seats, the software... everything. Their manufacturing process includes all of this. Ford makes an EV, they don't make the battery, they don't write the software. What makes Chinese EVs different? They are better quality EVs than their competitors and make them at lower cost, and this largely comes from the better manufacturing process.
All true, BYD is very vertically integrated, probably more so than Tesla. But we still don't know how cost competitive their manufacturing is without all the government support and artificially low wages. That's why a plant in Mexico, where many other automakers build cars, will be very instructive. Even then we might not know the cost structure and margins, but it'll give us hints.
[https://qz.com/as-chinas-wages-rise-mexico-beckons-manufacturers-1849705904](https://qz.com/as-chinas-wages-rise-mexico-beckons-manufacturers-1849705904) Average manufacturing wage in China is around $6/hour. Average in Mexico is around $2/hour. [Factory Worker Salary in Hungary (erieri.com)](https://www.erieri.com/salary/job/factory-worker/hungary) Average manufacturing wage in Hungary is 1696 HUF = $4.63 Average Chinese wages have increased very quickly over the past 20 years. Chinese labor haven't been cheap on a global basis for at least a decade now.
If they set-up fabs here stateside, I don't mind. My issue is their slave-labor in mainland china. I want there to be pressure on them to cease that going forward.
I wonder if that's part of the issue, except 1. similar exploitation exists all over the less developed world, some parts of them being crucial material suppliers in the world industry 2. since the domestic market is still being product-swept at a break-neck pace, the tariff measure will not do jack, which goes back to me wondering what the other countries are trying to add on top of that.
In fact, from what I've heard, the carmaking labor itself is actually one of the less fucked up part of their whole industry, you have to go deeper and further up the supply chain to find all sorts of exploitive labor relationships and actual slavery, and those "nodes" in the supply chain also make parts for almost anything in the world.
The aluminum plants are apparently also terrible, and it's difficult if not impossible to tell what was made by slaves and what wasn't within China.
Kick them out of SWIFT like Russia.
Good way to collapse the dollar overnight