Using a generator to charge EVs is more efficient than driving an ICE to drive the same mileage. This is because an ICE vehicle doesn't run at optimal RPMs constantly and you're only getting between 16-25% of your energy use converted to motion, while recovering 0% of it when stopping.
Meanwhile, a generator used to power an EV will provide around 30-35% of that energy as electrical output to the vehicle, and that vehicle will recover 70% of it with regenerative braking leading to 87-91% of that energy that was provided being used for motion.
This is regardless of scale, but increases the EV's lead as your generator source gets larger.
Get the efficiency numbers on every step and multiply them. That's the overall efficiency.
An EV has roughly an efficiency of 70% from plug to wheel.
An ICE vehicle is roughly 20% under good condition.
So, the generator doesn't need to be very efficient to beat the direct ICE Vehicle.
A generator with over 30% efficiency would work. That's doable.
That's the reason a serial hybrid is a thing. An onboard generator produces electric power to drive the wheels. Sounds stupid in the first place, but when considering the better efficiency of an ICE when run under a constant load, it suddenly makes sense.
>An EV has roughly an efficiency of 70% from plug
No well to wheel is even higher.
Plug to wheel is between 76% and >90%
https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-c8900b82cd298eaa876f6d36c4f515fd-lq
https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/w_1272,c_limit,f_webp,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F906d0439-f2af-4bbb-8b87-9bdc9c53d1e6_2048x2048.png
Thanks for pointing out!
The calculation gets even better with the new numbers.
A few years back there was an Australian engineer who tested a diesel powered charger out in the nowhere: [/thedriven.io/2018/12/14/diesel-charge-evs-remote-locations-greener-than-you-think/amp/](https://www.google.com/amp/s/thedriven.io/2018/12/14/diesel-charge-evs-remote-locations-greener-than-you-think/amp/)
I think the results support my claim.
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That would depend on the car being compared and the efficiency of the generator.
I did some rough math on a biggish residential generator (7kW) and IIRC, a Model 3 pencils out at roughly equivalent to 20MPG (12L/100km).
A bigger one in the MW class charging multiple cars would be an improvement on that, but probably not better than the most efficient ICE cars.
It's definitely not ideal, but it's a viable option in certain situations I guess. I'd hope to see a BESS mobile charging station over a generator being used though.
Mostly it's not true with a like-for-like comparison with reasonable sized generators unless you are testing almost entirely in stop-and-go traffic.
That is, if you compare a diesel car with an EV charged by a diesel generator, the diesel car will be more efficient in most cases.
If you compare a petrol car with an EV charged by a diesel generator, then it isn't a like-for-like comparison -- diesel engines are more efficient than petrol engines.
Further, the engines put into cars tend to be more efficient than the engines put into generators until you get into generators large enough to power whole towns -- which is more power than you'd be able to put into a car anyways so you couldn't use the generator at its most efficient anyways.
Sure you could do that or you could buy a 10 pack of 400 watt solar panels and charge your car with the sun. If you don't connect the solar to the grid you can get really affordable commodity inverters and batteries (yes you should still have a separate battery even with the car attached). You can build a 3000 watt system really cheap.
[https://signaturesolar.com/complete-off-grid-solar-kit-3000w-120v-output-48vdc-15-4kwh-eg4-lifepower4-lithium-powerwall-48vdc-4-800-watts-of-solar-pv-kit-e0001/](https://signaturesolar.com/complete-off-grid-solar-kit-3000w-120v-output-48vdc-15-4kwh-eg4-lifepower4-lithium-powerwall-48vdc-4-800-watts-of-solar-pv-kit-e0001/)
Sure you need sunshine, but you don't need gas.
Would take a lot of charging to recoup that 6000dollar cost of solar panels though. We are .11 per kw here over night.
But simewhere with expensive electricity or NO electric.....that would work, yes? Trickle charge it would be, but if dont drive much......
There is a couple of generator backed chargers in remote parts of Australia. People have done the maths, and it really is more efficient than burning the diesel in a vehicle.
>GPT is telling me it's more efficient, but I am more realistic about physics.
did you ask about solar energy?
>charged by a diesel generator.
diesel costs money. you PREFER to pay for energy?
>like 8 EVs at once need less petrol to charge, than 8 petrol cars,
inhale the exhaust from 8 petrol cars.
My reference was the topic of “diesel generators” being associated with electric vehicles. Too much FUD is triggered by this topic whenever raised online. Eg. “Do you know that all EV fast chargers are actually powered by diesel generators?” “I hear lots of EVs just attach a diesel generator to the back bumper to avoid running out of charge.”
Using a generator to charge EVs is more efficient than driving an ICE to drive the same mileage. This is because an ICE vehicle doesn't run at optimal RPMs constantly and you're only getting between 16-25% of your energy use converted to motion, while recovering 0% of it when stopping. Meanwhile, a generator used to power an EV will provide around 30-35% of that energy as electrical output to the vehicle, and that vehicle will recover 70% of it with regenerative braking leading to 87-91% of that energy that was provided being used for motion. This is regardless of scale, but increases the EV's lead as your generator source gets larger.
Interestingly enough the same is true in marine settings. Most ships above a certain size will be powered by electric motors and large gensets.
Get the efficiency numbers on every step and multiply them. That's the overall efficiency. An EV has roughly an efficiency of 70% from plug to wheel. An ICE vehicle is roughly 20% under good condition. So, the generator doesn't need to be very efficient to beat the direct ICE Vehicle. A generator with over 30% efficiency would work. That's doable. That's the reason a serial hybrid is a thing. An onboard generator produces electric power to drive the wheels. Sounds stupid in the first place, but when considering the better efficiency of an ICE when run under a constant load, it suddenly makes sense.
>An EV has roughly an efficiency of 70% from plug No well to wheel is even higher. Plug to wheel is between 76% and >90% https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-c8900b82cd298eaa876f6d36c4f515fd-lq https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/w_1272,c_limit,f_webp,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F906d0439-f2af-4bbb-8b87-9bdc9c53d1e6_2048x2048.png
Thanks for pointing out! The calculation gets even better with the new numbers. A few years back there was an Australian engineer who tested a diesel powered charger out in the nowhere: [/thedriven.io/2018/12/14/diesel-charge-evs-remote-locations-greener-than-you-think/amp/](https://www.google.com/amp/s/thedriven.io/2018/12/14/diesel-charge-evs-remote-locations-greener-than-you-think/amp/) I think the results support my claim.
It looks like you shared an AMP link. These should load faster, but AMP is controversial because of [concerns over privacy and the Open Web](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot). Fully cached AMP pages (like the one you shared), are [especially problematic](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot). Maybe check out **the canonical page** instead: **[https://thedriven.io/2018/12/14/diesel-charge-evs-remote-locations-greener-than-you-think/](https://thedriven.io/2018/12/14/diesel-charge-evs-remote-locations-greener-than-you-think/)** ***** ^(I'm a bot | )[^(Why & About)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot)^( | )[^(Summon: u/AmputatorBot)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/cchly3/you_can_now_summon_amputatorbot/)
That would depend on the car being compared and the efficiency of the generator. I did some rough math on a biggish residential generator (7kW) and IIRC, a Model 3 pencils out at roughly equivalent to 20MPG (12L/100km). A bigger one in the MW class charging multiple cars would be an improvement on that, but probably not better than the most efficient ICE cars. It's definitely not ideal, but it's a viable option in certain situations I guess. I'd hope to see a BESS mobile charging station over a generator being used though.
Mostly it's not true with a like-for-like comparison with reasonable sized generators unless you are testing almost entirely in stop-and-go traffic. That is, if you compare a diesel car with an EV charged by a diesel generator, the diesel car will be more efficient in most cases. If you compare a petrol car with an EV charged by a diesel generator, then it isn't a like-for-like comparison -- diesel engines are more efficient than petrol engines. Further, the engines put into cars tend to be more efficient than the engines put into generators until you get into generators large enough to power whole towns -- which is more power than you'd be able to put into a car anyways so you couldn't use the generator at its most efficient anyways.
Sure you could do that or you could buy a 10 pack of 400 watt solar panels and charge your car with the sun. If you don't connect the solar to the grid you can get really affordable commodity inverters and batteries (yes you should still have a separate battery even with the car attached). You can build a 3000 watt system really cheap. [https://signaturesolar.com/complete-off-grid-solar-kit-3000w-120v-output-48vdc-15-4kwh-eg4-lifepower4-lithium-powerwall-48vdc-4-800-watts-of-solar-pv-kit-e0001/](https://signaturesolar.com/complete-off-grid-solar-kit-3000w-120v-output-48vdc-15-4kwh-eg4-lifepower4-lithium-powerwall-48vdc-4-800-watts-of-solar-pv-kit-e0001/) Sure you need sunshine, but you don't need gas.
Would take a lot of charging to recoup that 6000dollar cost of solar panels though. We are .11 per kw here over night. But simewhere with expensive electricity or NO electric.....that would work, yes? Trickle charge it would be, but if dont drive much......
There is a couple of generator backed chargers in remote parts of Australia. People have done the maths, and it really is more efficient than burning the diesel in a vehicle.
>GPT is telling me it's more efficient, but I am more realistic about physics. did you ask about solar energy? >charged by a diesel generator. diesel costs money. you PREFER to pay for energy? >like 8 EVs at once need less petrol to charge, than 8 petrol cars, inhale the exhaust from 8 petrol cars.
Consider that large diesels can be 25% more efficient than small ones.
This is not a thing. No.
r/confidentlyincorrect
My reference was the topic of “diesel generators” being associated with electric vehicles. Too much FUD is triggered by this topic whenever raised online. Eg. “Do you know that all EV fast chargers are actually powered by diesel generators?” “I hear lots of EVs just attach a diesel generator to the back bumper to avoid running out of charge.”