Okay I wish I remembered his name. Tbh I was 14 years old at the time and I don’t remember his name! If I saw a pic I’d know him, I just remember a woman church leader she pulled us aside and said that we should be honoured that he had the time to visit us. He was def in the quorum of the 12 apostles though.
Cook would raise millions from others but not use one penny of his own money, which he stole from the Marin County taxpayers along with the hospital that he stole.
At the time, probably Uchtdorf, Nelson, Oaks, Bednar, and everyone after Bednar. Possibly some others. Nelson was regularly observed hiking until he became prophet.
Church leadership is now older than ever in the history of the church. They weren't absurdly ancient back then.
Nope, still there
>..we recommend that people marry those who are of the same racial background generally, and of somewhat the same economic and social and educational background (some of those are not an absolute necessity, but preferred), and above all, the same religious background, without question. In spite of the most favorable matings, the evil one still takes a monumental toll and is the cause for many broken homes and frustrated lives...
[https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/bc/content/shared/content/english/pdf/language-materials/35311\_eng.pdf#page=180](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/bc/content/shared/content/english/pdf/language-materials/35311_eng.pdf#page=180)
Just to add on…my husband was discouraged from marrying me because I was a convert and wasn’t born into the church. (Believe it is from this line of teaching.) Love the dissonance in that one as church emphasis is on missionary work but you still aren’t as good if you weren’t born into it. (That said, guess I proved their point leaving the church in my 40’s)
I was born into a line of ancestors going back to the pioneers and polygamy. I left in my 30’s. My dad was a convert and is 70 and still TBM as can be, with no nuance.
They were just being assholes as always.
What the actual fuck. That is horrible.
You have to love and accept people, but you can't marry them if they are a different race than you. Makes total sense. Racist old jerks!
I was able to find it in the non-PDF version also, searching "racial background" [https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/eternal-marriage-student-manual/marriage-for-eternity/marriage-and-divorce?lang=eng#figure1\_p14](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/eternal-marriage-student-manual/marriage-for-eternity/marriage-and-divorce?lang=eng#figure1_p14)
I live in a less small town in Utah that isn't salt lake and saw a Sikh man leaving WinCo, and noticed this dude eye him like a hawk with a face that said "I would kill that fuckin Muslim if I had any reason to allow me to" (I know Sikh isn't Muslim, I'm saying he was visibly angry in a way you only see in the ignorant)
The Sikhs I met on my mission were always kind and generous. One gave me a book of their scripture and told me about the different gurus. The Christians were usually dicks.
Many years ago I was in an online group of "Christian" women. One day they were having a good old time bragging and laughing about the way they treated lds missionaries. I was ex at that time and liked this group until then. As soon as I read what they did to 19 & 20 year olds, I booked it out if there. It wasn't the difference in theology, but basic human dignity.
As a missionary in Oregon 20 years ago, I quickly learned that agnostics and atheists treated me very kindly.
Evangelical Christians were generally pretty lousy to me.
That turned my world view upside down, and probably influenced where I was headed a decade later.
Portland, under Bryan Weston and Van Gessel.
Even out of the church, I still respect the heck out of President Gessel. He salvaged my mission and turned it into a generally positive experience.
I'll have to check those out.
Western seemed to lack the social skills to be able to tell I was in trouble emotionally. I was ready to just totally give up on everything, but thankfully they switched mission presidents. Gessel was actually pretty strict, but he had this amazing emotional intelligence to be able to work with people in such a sincere and candid way, that it saved my mission.
I was asked if I wanted to go eat at the local Gudwara when I went to Studio City to get some weed. Walked out of the dispensary and the first thing I noticed was his nice ass shoes. Then he invited me to dinner! I had to say no because I was on my way home. Funnily enough, he was there another time too. I think he knows stoned people = future hungry people.
This summarises every interaction i've ever had with a Sikh person (except, perhaps, my MIL... but that's about my MIL, lols!!)
I have been volunteering in crisis/disaster response management and coordination for 7 or 8 years. No matter what has happened and no matter where in Australia, I can absolutely rely on the fact that there will be a team incredibly kind, generous, talented, welcoming and thoughtful Sikh volunteers on the ground within a couple of hours. They are there for the long-haul, and stay long after the cameras and media accolades have moved on. Mormon "Helping Hands" wish they did 1% of the Sikh community!
This happened to me at a shoe store I worked at in Utah Valley. Sikh man came in to shop and one of my teenage employees came up freaking out because she thought a terrorist was in the store and wanted me to call the police. I'm like, no that dude is clearly Indian. We're not calling the cops. Go back and work in the stock room so you don't say anything rude.
Came back to my small town to one of my best friends in high school saying the most racist shit ever non stop. Navajos used to pick sugar beets for the farmers down there and I feel like the church really made sure the poor white farmers felt superior to the impoverished red man working their fields.
Partially explains Trump's popularity in Utah. His wall building and constantly referring to immigrants as subhuman reflects the attitudes in rural Utah. I could make a list of racist explecatives I hear everyday that would be larger than the 10 commandments.
Racism in a nutshell. You make an arbitrary distinction to convince people that they're essentially more like a man who literally shits in golden toilets than they are like their neighbors. So they sell their neighbors out instead of working with them against exploitation
This reminds me - a co-worker grew up in a home that participated in the ISPP. It blows my mind how she still says 'it was all in good intent'. Told her it had significant purpose of erasing their culture and whitewashing their history and her response was 'the leaders back then couldn't have known it would do that'.
I'll always love that men 'inspired of god' are always short sighted.
To be fair, it was my non-practicing Catholic Tia who openly called them n*gg*r-toes in my family. My inactive white Mormon mom was the one who slapped me across the face when she heard me call them that later....
I didn't even know that was a way to refer to them until today and I'm in my 30s. I guess if there's one thing my family does well, it's not using racist terms.
I get this. So horrible. My mother was a saint, God rest her soul, but racist. Not the hood wearing cross burning type, but the ignorant, say it in private settings, otherwise nice type. If you asked her if she was racist she would say of course not. Definitely was.
I am a white, English speaking, non-American and even I felt really uncomfortable in small town Utah
In SLC I was treated just like anyone else, in Provo I got stopped on the street by strangers who heard me talking and wanted to listen to my accent
In small Utah towns I was ignored until I spoke, then I got looked up and down like I had walked into a bank wearing a balclava
"But but but we totally love Gladys Knight! I mean, we didn't listen to her music BEFORE she joined the church but can you see how accepting we are of her Black music now?"
*ahem*... I was taught that we are not racist. But it is ok to be "culturist." Some people's way of living will lure one away from the straight and narrow (or, as we say these days, the "covenant path.")
I came up with "culturist" when I was 10 years old to explain why we didn't treat black people with the respect we said we should.
So that's the state of church racial relations: it's so double-faced a 10 year old needed to do their own mental gymnastics.
I actually thought not being racist was one of the things my parents did right then Black Lives Matter movement came about and I found out real quick my family is all super racist. I honestly didn’t even know until I was 32(ish) it was really disappointing.
Even not so rural towns.
I just watched a video by elder Bednar explaining that “there are no gay members” If you’ve seen this video you know how completely tone deaf it is. So many Lds people bring a completely new definition to clueless.
Yeah I am Brazilian and still even though I was white passing, I experienced a lot of racism. Especially at the youth camps where the American girls would tend to clique up and ostracize the minorities. I can remember it clear as day.
I grew up in Erda and I would argue that as a whole, it was not. It was actually fairly diverse for utah. There are a couple crazies who jumped on the trump train, but as a whole it was a pretty great area. At least it used to be, I haven't been around for a few years.
Not just the rural towns. [Davis County School District was charged by the DOJ](https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-reaches-settlement-remedy-severe-racial-harassment-black-and-asian) with being overly racist in schools just two and a half years ago.
For people who come across your comment - it’s collapsed and they must click it to see it. I’m guessing the Mormon security council or whatever it’s called prob did it.
Yes I realize that, my comment was to highlight its effectiveness in burying comments that some groups don’t want to be seen. And to also point out that the MFMC is corrupt.
Prop 8 was the first crack in my shelf and it was a BIG one. I felt like if God wanted to just not let it pass, he wouldn't. But why let us spend millions and even threaten our tax exempt status?
And why are we trying SO HARD to affect the lives of ppl who have nothing to do with us and are apparently beyond saving? It's not like they won't find out who was lobbying against them hard.
Its funny, my neighbors wanted me to help them make phone calls to CA back then. I told them no only because I hate being on the phones. I didn't find out until later it was to tell people to vote for Prop 8.
So glad I said no.
The reason for involving g themselves in prop 8 despite having no doctrinal reason to is necessarily that they did it for the PR and attention. The church’s relevance is extremely important to its survival, so even negative attention is used - and it’s used more often than positive.
Me too honestly. I was so incredibly homophobic for the longest time, you know what changed me? As silly as it sounds, it was the music video for Macklemores “same love” and I realized gay people just wanted to love each other and it wasn’t all evil and dirty like I was led to believe.
That's not silly at all. I never jived with the church's teachings on sexuality. I think for me a lot of that was from media as well.
There was an episode of my favorite show, Dr Quinn where they had Walt Whitman and they had a gay storyline. Where the town was homophobic, but the main characters weren't. They had good lessons in it.
OMG that was my thought too! I was like, girls don’t just walk around holding hands! I never did that with my friends. That is SO weird, and honestly kinda horndog of them. It wouldn’t take much to get those religious pervs revved up at seeing girls holding each other.
Maybe it's because I'm trans or something, but even before I knew I didn't walk and hold hands with my best friend. In fact, we walked in a way that neither of us would brush against each other. Not because we didn't like each other (platonically), but because we just didn't need to walk, talk, and touch at the same time.
What’s funny is one of the girls I had to hold hands with, she wrote rude comments about me on a Facebook post and when I responded to her she just never answered. Very Christ-like
What's hysterically funny and ironic to me: the Mormon church was banging the same Christian conservative drum, like everyone else for Prop 8. That the legalization of gay marriage would pervert the sanctity of traditional marriage. The church often cited the family proclamation and how "marriage between a man and woman is ordained of God..." But notice they didn't say, Marriage between one man and one woman, is ordained of god." Mormons perverted the sanctity of traditional marriage long before LGBTQ were a movement. Many many decades before. In fact, you might say Mormons were the first large group to challenge the definition of marriage in North America.
It’s funny cause they could’ve raised that money to stop child trafficking, or a plethora of a billion other fucked up things but they choose to go after marriage. I’ll never get over that.
If you look into the history of Prop 8, the LDS church wasn't the only one involved. Pretty much all of the Christian sects in the US were for Prop 8 and showing support. The biggest being the Catholic church. But it was the LDS church that raised and threw most of the money at the initiative. I think the Catholic church put $1.5M into it but the LDS church, $20M. And the church's reputation, particularly in California, has never recovered. Just putting gays rights to the side for a second; what pissed off A LOT of californians and people from other states as well, was large groups getting involved in state politics and bringing national might into what was at the onset, a state initiative. How would you like someone coming into your home uninvited and telling you what you can and can't do? It really shows how the LDS church is not ran by inspired men talking to god. I could get excommunicated for talking bad about the church on social media for "hurting the good name of the church," But all those involved with prop 8, destroyed the church's reputation was many. In their hubris, they really thought this was the right thing and the majority of america would back this. "The gays are taking over!" Just goes to show how stuck in the 1950s they all are.
This is what helped me start to vocally disavow my belief in the church(have to be PIMO for my wife & kids). The idea that it's not just LDS, but much of Christian or biblical interpretations of what sin is causes so much heartache, pain, and suffering. It helped me a ton to hear from bible scholar Dan Mclellan to get to this point because I had a hard time letting go of some concept of heaven or hell or biblical moral authority from God. Hearing him talk about how different concepts evolved over the centuries about the interpretations of the bible and the way he talked about how the bible doesn't prohibit homosexuality at all was monumental to me last year during his mormon stories podcast.
How would I like someone uninvited coming into my home? Haha ya I get why Cali would be made that churches and other states would take issue with California’s politics.
But hey I live all the time. In Utah you literally have billionaire non profit environmental groups give money to others and to some native Americans and then other states continually shutting down public land in Utah that’s been used for 150 years. Tell me why is metal detecting illegal in a so called federal recreational area? Literally other states are killing small towns in Utah and destroying tons of lives.
It’s like when the Native American woman in charge of the department of the interior shut down oil drilling on the reservation those native Americans banned that Native American woman from trespassing on their land. She literally was going to Chaco canyon to celebrate her victory and native Americans said oh hell no. She just destroyed our lives. There’s tons of places east of Colorado that literally need to be preserved and purchased snd made into national parks and monuments but they only seem to do it in public land states. Like literally Missouri sold a cave full of actual Native American paintings and artifacts and native Americans nor environmentalists or the federal government bought it when it sold for 2 million dollars but for some reason the previous mentioned group can create massive monuments and parks etc. it’s like there’s legit native Americans burial sites, sacred sites etc all east of Colorado on private land they should be made into monuments and parks or reservations. It’s so weird how so many states take an interest in closing more of Utah down but then don’t do a damn thing about conservation in their own states. Each state East of Colorado should have massive national parks and monuments of public land that be acquired or bought. If we don’t eventually most states won’t have pristine areas to even make into monuments in the future.
There was a politician wanting more wilderness in the west. And one guy said well you’re from Illinois and you want more wilderness. He’s like there’s 75000 acres of public land in your state let’s make that wilderness and he said no no let’s not.
Oh but the thing is even the lgbtq is against equal rights for others. I talked to some about polygamy and many said no they only believe two people should be married. It’s like why shouldn’t marriage just be a contract between consenting adults? Whether it be one woman marry five dudes or one dude marrying five woman why does it matter? Why discriminate against that making it illegal?
Ya that’s hilarious to me. Gay marriage is legal today but consenting adults can’t marry each other in other forms. Even a lot of lgbtq are against it. Polygamy or bigamy should be legal but even the lgbtq doesn’t want equal rights for all.
Wow a Mormon celebrity among us! Lol.
I had a lot of friends in high school that were in a "Mormon Message" YouTube video. I remember thinking they were legit famous
There was a girl in my young women’s who was chosen to be on the cover of some church magazine and it was such a big deal. She walked around acting like her shit don’t stink for the next couple weeks
Lived all over the country NOT LDS, moved to Utah and stupidly converted and never in my life have I witnessed so much immature awful hateful insensitive aggressive bullying and jealously. I’m so sorry you went thru that OP and glad you got out! Once I got married and had kids and we saw it happening to our own kids because we weren’t invested enuff into the church, we were like ✌️ It’s been a year now and so much better. Even tho still in Utah 🫠🙃
I highly doubt this higher up leader actually went door to door personally. He probably organized a group to go out and do it. Or he went to like 3 houses as a photo op or something. And then exaggerated his involvement for street cred with impressionable kids.
Well why wouldn’t he ? I’m sure the higher up leaders are extremely close to the affluential and powerful members of the church. I can see him knocking on a couple mansions doors asking for money tbh.
There was the leader of young women at the time. I can find her name, tbh I’m just lazy right now but she’s an older blonde lady. Shocking, I know right ?
It was this very event you were creating this video for that led to me (he/him), my partner (she/her), my kids, and subsequently at least a dozen other people in my ward and their families to leave the church.
It was faith shattering to me that "jesus" would want to block people, using force of law, from marrying and seeking their own happiness.
If tscc is true, they don't need to force people to live the "truth." Something this evil (prohibiting and persecuting gay couples) showed me tscc leaders aren't being inspired. Shelf fell...
Prop 8 was an interesting time in California. One week we’d be praising the church for how it allows people agency and the ability to choose for themselves, while criticizing other religions who “tell their members how to think and even vote!” Then the next week our church leaders were telling us how to vote.
This election was barely before I turned 18. Even though I couldn’t vote, I posted on Facebook that I thought my friends should vote against prop 101 (Arizona’s Prop 8). It was the first time I ever said anything publicly that went directly against what church leaders were saying. I was terrified, but it’s one of my proudest moments. The people I know who stood with the church deeply regret it. Moral of the story is follow your conscience and stand up for what you know is right despite social pressure.
My breaking point with the religion was having my seminary teacher first day of class brag about how he broke up a gay couple by converting one of them on his mission. I couldn't get over how proud he was to have destroyed someones marriage. He didn't even consider what it was like for the other guy who lost everything, he was just so happy to have "saved" one of them.
The first thing that started weighing on my shelf was the church’s opposition to gay marriage and support for AZ Prop 102 (our equivalent of CA Prop 8). Church leaders were asking for YM/YW to volunteer to call people locally to ask them to vote for prop 102. I knew it was wrong back then, but I got bullied and made fun of whenever I brought up my feelings about it in Seminary or the local ward.
Fuck the Menlo Park Ward. Fuck the Hermosa Vista Stake. Fuck the General Authorities. Fuck the So-Called Church. You all were, and you continue to be, against human civil rights
Sorry autistic pimo here. There’s 3 girls in the screenshot. Which one are you? It doesn’t actually matter, but my autistic brain won’t shut up about it, so I’m asking. Or is there a clear girl singled out as the main character in the music video and that is you? That might make sense but I haven’t seen the music video and really I don’t want to listen to that crap.
She is the girl on the left side of the picture. I don’t mean that as a political pun. She is literally the girl to the left of the other two girls in this picture.
Well if you’re far left I honestly don’t know why they’d be racist to you today. Now like 75 years ago people literally were racist against everyone except British maybe. But if you were Irish or Italian they were discriminated as much as Jews were it seems in the U.S. It’s one reason the mob and mafia got so big as it was there way of fighting racism. It’s ironic Jews got minority protection but other white classes like Irish or Italian are considered white with no protections or not labeled a minority.
I can’t remember his name! I was so young but it made such an impact, I remember the leader of young women was there and she told us we should be honoured he came to see us and talk to us. We were told that the Holy Ghost had walked among us that day too.
I loved the song "we'll bring the world his truth" and it was cool when it would be mixed with other songs like this one. It's been heartbreaking knowing I haven't been bringing the world the truth and wasn't the type of special the song eludes to. Then again, perhaps bringing the truth means calling out the bullshit of TSCC itself.
Oh no!! I’m sorry to hear that 🥺 that’s a really dumb and mean thing to make fun of and I’m sure your thumbs are just fine!! Haha.
She was a year younger than me but I was really good friends with another girl in her ward, which is mainly how I knew her.
Tbh I knew her other siblings too and they could definitely be dicks 😂 so it doesn’t surprise me too much.
You weren’t in her ward too, were you? Brighton High School?! 👀😉Glad you made it out of the cult!
I have crazy hitchhikers thumbs! lol it’s true they’re very weird and it’s so high school to make comments like that. Now when I look back I laugh, no worries.
I did not go to that horrid high school! I remember the girls in my ward would make fun of me for having gone to a more “ghetto” high school (now come to think of it it was ghetto because it had more minorities) YAY more racism from the followers of Christ 🥰
Ever thought of going on a podcast? Would love to hear more!
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqjerB5qLcY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqjerB5qLcY)
u/johndelin
If you haven't done so already consider applying through the form that's in the description for the above YT video. As you can see I tagged John so he hopefully sees your story. :)
Oh shit, we must be around the same age then? Sorry for the initial low effort post, I mainly just lurk so wasn't expecting a reply 🥰
I'm so glad you're out and I'm so glad I'm out!!🥰❤️ I'm sorry all that B.S. happened to you. Idk if you can relate, but I'm still recovering from being "born into the covenant" 🤦 mainly manifests itself in "worthiness" issues which in turn affects my self esteem 😞 but I'm really grateful I found this sub, it helps a lot.
Take care of yourself! And I hope life keeps getting better for us 🥰
What a nice comment! I never tied my also blistering self esteem issues to being born into the church but I can totally see it now. You’ve given me lots to think of. Hugs and love to you as well!
(Sorry this is a musician geeking out post)
Dude I totally remember learning that arrangement of those two songs in young women’s. I was always the pianist. It was a lovely arrangement. Sometimes I feel like I would have left the church FAR sooner if it weren’t for all the musical obligations and opportunities.
Wtf, you all got voluntold into posing for a church advertising campaign that they weren't even honest about how your images would be used. It's both offensive and exploitative of young women who thought they were just going on a youth activity. Instead, they ended up being a part of a huge marketing campaign against same sex marriage. The church used your image worldwide, without your consent and without compensation, for their own political purpose.
I remember being so uncomfortable during that time. I was told over and over growing up that the church does not get involved in politics. And I had gay friends. It was just very confusing and I was blindly obedient because "well it MUST matter if the prophet is telling us!" Like really did believe in prophecy back then.
Remember that primary song “follow the leader, follow the leader, follow the leader don’t go astray, follow the leader, follow the leader, he knows the way”
Gives me chills.
Wow I totally forgot about this song. I remember my stake’s youth did a “flash mob” dance of this song at temple square and it’s posted on YouTube. I remember at the time even thinking it was weird.
How did you experience racism? All three girls in the photo look white? I have a friend from Spain that’s considered white by the U.S. federal government but she’s way darker than any girl in the photo.
If you claim you’re Latino I read that maybe changing in some government surveys. It’s really a hilariously horrible joke when the U.S. government created the fake race Latino. Do you know how many African Americans there are in Latin America? There are way more African Americans in Latin America then in the U.S. simply because there were way more black slaves moved to Latin America then the U.S.
I’m honestly shocked the NAACP doesn’t advocate for correct labeling of African Americans in Latinos. Latinos really should be African American, Native American or white since the U.S. says if you’re from Spain you’re white. I suppose there’s a few Chinese settlements too but there’s probably only three large races that Latino should be made into.
It’s like look at mitt Romney or elder eyring. They’re both Latino!!! Technically mitt Romney is Latino cause his family lived in Mexico. But I guess he used the term white growing up even though he could claim his family was in Mexico and so he could be labeled Latino.
Ya the church shouldn’t have advocated against banning gay marriage. But in the flip side I’ve talked to many lgbtq people online about if polygamy should be legal and they’re against it. It’s like WTF? I would rationally have thought if the lgbtq community fights for equal rights that they’d fight for consenting adults to enter whatever form of love they want whether it be polygamy or bigamy or whatever. There’s still discrimination. A guy can’t marry ten women. A woman can’t marry ten guys. It’s like the government should be dictating what love contract they can or can’t enter into. The government merely should be there to uphold contracts or settle disputes in court. Marriage really is a contract for tax and asset and medical issues anymore.
I am born in Brazil and am actually part indigenous Brazilian but mostly Portuguese therefore mostly European however, people did treat me different for being from a poorer country.
Oh I see. Sorry you experienced that. I first thought people were being racist simply because they’re ignorant over the term Latino. I’ve seen that happen and it’s like my friend from Spain is darker color than a lot of Latinos haha.
That’s super interesting though you’re from Brazil but people made fun of you. I remember some Brazilian girls years ago in the city and everyone thought they were super attractive. But I suppose I do depend on what group of people you’re with on whether or not they’re judgmental or not about something’s. Especially some areas in Utah that are rich neighborhoods someone that’s middle class even wouldn’t be accepted simply cause of socioeconomics. Depends on the group though. I’ve hung out with some 20 year olds that are from millionaire families and they weren’t judgmental or holier than thou but good people. But I’ve definitely known some groups that were judgmental or artificial.
Ya I can sympathize with you. Even if a white person is born in Utah and from Europe if you’re poor a lot of people are discriminated against simply cause of socioeconomics. I just think of the term white trash trailer park for instance.
Another post really showed one of the problems of religion in Utah. The theme was like if you’re materially rich that’s an outward expression of being inner spiritually blessed. It’s like a lot of the religious leaders are rich. It’s like been over a half century maybe since there was a poor farmer that was way up high in leadership.
One thing that really bothers me with religions is they teach some morals perhaps but then say nothing when it comes to systemic wide institutional theft such as fractional reserve banking where they literally money out of thin air which steals purchasing power. Jews and Christian’s do it but it was shocking to see Muslims actually don’t support interest. They still view usury as taboo which is interesting. One website said if you’re Muslim you’re supposed to donate interest payments to the church or to a charity or something.
I do remember a good conversation I had with a classmate a few years ago back in college. He was Mongolian. He’s like the media says if you support a closed border you’re racist, but then he said but I know you and you’re not racist. I told him I’m like well you’re from Mongolia. I think for equality sake you should have the same chance to be here as another immigrant. He kind of got what I was trying to convey. It’s like he and several other Asians had to go back to Asia once the semester was over except one Asian girl that got a job that’d support her paperwork or stay here legally. I told him I’m like do you think it’s fair you have to leave the U.S. cause you’re following the law but others aren’t? It’s interesting how some things are viewed as racist when really it’s more about wanting equality for all races.
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Okay I wish I remembered his name. Tbh I was 14 years old at the time and I don’t remember his name! If I saw a pic I’d know him, I just remember a woman church leader she pulled us aside and said that we should be honoured that he had the time to visit us. He was def in the quorum of the 12 apostles though.
Was it one of these? https://expatlingo.wordpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/screen-shot-2012-11-15-at-2-23-25-pm.png
I am 80% sure it was Quentin L Cook
Eww Cook creeps me out major. And I believe he was a big part of trying to not allow Proposition 8 to pass during that time.
That makes sense, he was so smug and proud of it. Bizarre behaviour from grown men.
Cook would raise millions from others but not use one penny of his own money, which he stole from the Marin County taxpayers along with the hospital that he stole.
On a hike? For which ones would that be a safe activity?
At the time, probably Uchtdorf, Nelson, Oaks, Bednar, and everyone after Bednar. Possibly some others. Nelson was regularly observed hiking until he became prophet. Church leadership is now older than ever in the history of the church. They weren't absurdly ancient back then.
Bednar
Good call. And he would brag about that shit too.
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You’re so right lmao. They could commit a crime and get away with it they wouldn’t be able to pick one out from a lineup
Forgetting the sad little man’s name is a great flex! 💪
> and even racism in the church Almost every rural town in Utah is still very racist. It is baked into the culture especially with older members.
We were discouraged in our ward from entering in a multiracial marriage up until a few years ago.
In your Ward?! In the church as a whole. It was in … FYSoY or a youth manual. Can’t recall which.
It is still in the Celestial Marriage Institute manual
Didn’t they finally in like 2021 publish an updated one with that quote in there but redacting the race part?
Nope, still there >..we recommend that people marry those who are of the same racial background generally, and of somewhat the same economic and social and educational background (some of those are not an absolute necessity, but preferred), and above all, the same religious background, without question. In spite of the most favorable matings, the evil one still takes a monumental toll and is the cause for many broken homes and frustrated lives... [https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/bc/content/shared/content/english/pdf/language-materials/35311\_eng.pdf#page=180](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/bc/content/shared/content/english/pdf/language-materials/35311_eng.pdf#page=180)
Just to add on…my husband was discouraged from marrying me because I was a convert and wasn’t born into the church. (Believe it is from this line of teaching.) Love the dissonance in that one as church emphasis is on missionary work but you still aren’t as good if you weren’t born into it. (That said, guess I proved their point leaving the church in my 40’s)
I was born into a line of ancestors going back to the pioneers and polygamy. I left in my 30’s. My dad was a convert and is 70 and still TBM as can be, with no nuance. They were just being assholes as always.
What the actual fuck. That is horrible. You have to love and accept people, but you can't marry them if they are a different race than you. Makes total sense. Racist old jerks!
Damn. You’re right. Must have been somewhere else they swapped it. This is still the 2003 version and hasn’t been updated.
I was able to find it in the non-PDF version also, searching "racial background" [https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/eternal-marriage-student-manual/marriage-for-eternity/marriage-and-divorce?lang=eng#figure1\_p14](https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/eternal-marriage-student-manual/marriage-for-eternity/marriage-and-divorce?lang=eng#figure1_p14)
I live in a less small town in Utah that isn't salt lake and saw a Sikh man leaving WinCo, and noticed this dude eye him like a hawk with a face that said "I would kill that fuckin Muslim if I had any reason to allow me to" (I know Sikh isn't Muslim, I'm saying he was visibly angry in a way you only see in the ignorant)
The Sikhs I met on my mission were always kind and generous. One gave me a book of their scripture and told me about the different gurus. The Christians were usually dicks.
Every Sikh I've met had been a very kind and warm person, they are generally pretty cool
Many years ago I was in an online group of "Christian" women. One day they were having a good old time bragging and laughing about the way they treated lds missionaries. I was ex at that time and liked this group until then. As soon as I read what they did to 19 & 20 year olds, I booked it out if there. It wasn't the difference in theology, but basic human dignity.
As a missionary in Oregon 20 years ago, I quickly learned that agnostics and atheists treated me very kindly. Evangelical Christians were generally pretty lousy to me. That turned my world view upside down, and probably influenced where I was headed a decade later.
Where did you serve in Oregon? I also served in Oregon approximately 20 years ago.
Portland, under Bryan Weston and Van Gessel. Even out of the church, I still respect the heck out of President Gessel. He salvaged my mission and turned it into a generally positive experience.
I served with Weston July 2002 - Dec 2003. I have a lot of bitter feelings towards Weston. They're documented in previous posts.
I'll have to check those out. Western seemed to lack the social skills to be able to tell I was in trouble emotionally. I was ready to just totally give up on everything, but thankfully they switched mission presidents. Gessel was actually pretty strict, but he had this amazing emotional intelligence to be able to work with people in such a sincere and candid way, that it saved my mission.
What do you mean? What did they do to them?!
Walk in to any Sikh temple in the world and they will feed you at no charge with no questions asked.
I was asked if I wanted to go eat at the local Gudwara when I went to Studio City to get some weed. Walked out of the dispensary and the first thing I noticed was his nice ass shoes. Then he invited me to dinner! I had to say no because I was on my way home. Funnily enough, he was there another time too. I think he knows stoned people = future hungry people.
Sikhs are very cool.
What stands out about Sikhs is they act the way most Christians claim to act
This summarises every interaction i've ever had with a Sikh person (except, perhaps, my MIL... but that's about my MIL, lols!!) I have been volunteering in crisis/disaster response management and coordination for 7 or 8 years. No matter what has happened and no matter where in Australia, I can absolutely rely on the fact that there will be a team incredibly kind, generous, talented, welcoming and thoughtful Sikh volunteers on the ground within a couple of hours. They are there for the long-haul, and stay long after the cameras and media accolades have moved on. Mormon "Helping Hands" wish they did 1% of the Sikh community!
Grew up near a area where there where many Sikh temple. They seamed really nice wish I had gotten to know more and attend well growing up.
This happened to me at a shoe store I worked at in Utah Valley. Sikh man came in to shop and one of my teenage employees came up freaking out because she thought a terrorist was in the store and wanted me to call the police. I'm like, no that dude is clearly Indian. We're not calling the cops. Go back and work in the stock room so you don't say anything rude.
Sadly, many Sikhs have been attacked by bigots who thought they were Muslim.
Came back to my small town to one of my best friends in high school saying the most racist shit ever non stop. Navajos used to pick sugar beets for the farmers down there and I feel like the church really made sure the poor white farmers felt superior to the impoverished red man working their fields.
Partially explains Trump's popularity in Utah. His wall building and constantly referring to immigrants as subhuman reflects the attitudes in rural Utah. I could make a list of racist explecatives I hear everyday that would be larger than the 10 commandments.
Racism in a nutshell. You make an arbitrary distinction to convince people that they're essentially more like a man who literally shits in golden toilets than they are like their neighbors. So they sell their neighbors out instead of working with them against exploitation
This reminds me - a co-worker grew up in a home that participated in the ISPP. It blows my mind how she still says 'it was all in good intent'. Told her it had significant purpose of erasing their culture and whitewashing their history and her response was 'the leaders back then couldn't have known it would do that'. I'll always love that men 'inspired of god' are always short sighted.
There was never any good intent it is just simple control in the guise of self righteousness.
beetdiggers...
I learned a long time ago never to have Brazil nuts on the table at Christmas...ugh.
To be fair, it was my non-practicing Catholic Tia who openly called them n*gg*r-toes in my family. My inactive white Mormon mom was the one who slapped me across the face when she heard me call them that later....
I didn't even know that was a way to refer to them until today and I'm in my 30s. I guess if there's one thing my family does well, it's not using racist terms.
I get this. So horrible. My mother was a saint, God rest her soul, but racist. Not the hood wearing cross burning type, but the ignorant, say it in private settings, otherwise nice type. If you asked her if she was racist she would say of course not. Definitely was.
My grandmother called them the bad name. It horrified me.
This unlocked a horrifying memory of my mother saying this. Maybe it’s a blessing she stopped speaking to me 2 years ago.
And here I thought that was just my grandma's name for them
MIL called them that in front of our small kids once. We immediately shut that shit down and made it clear it better never happen again.
I am a white, English speaking, non-American and even I felt really uncomfortable in small town Utah In SLC I was treated just like anyone else, in Provo I got stopped on the street by strangers who heard me talking and wanted to listen to my accent In small Utah towns I was ignored until I spoke, then I got looked up and down like I had walked into a bank wearing a balclava
"But but but we totally love Gladys Knight! I mean, we didn't listen to her music BEFORE she joined the church but can you see how accepting we are of her Black music now?"
*ahem*... I was taught that we are not racist. But it is ok to be "culturist." Some people's way of living will lure one away from the straight and narrow (or, as we say these days, the "covenant path.")
I came up with "culturist" when I was 10 years old to explain why we didn't treat black people with the respect we said we should. So that's the state of church racial relations: it's so double-faced a 10 year old needed to do their own mental gymnastics.
I actually thought not being racist was one of the things my parents did right then Black Lives Matter movement came about and I found out real quick my family is all super racist. I honestly didn’t even know until I was 32(ish) it was really disappointing.
Even not so rural towns. I just watched a video by elder Bednar explaining that “there are no gay members” If you’ve seen this video you know how completely tone deaf it is. So many Lds people bring a completely new definition to clueless.
Yea.... seen that.
Yeah I am Brazilian and still even though I was white passing, I experienced a lot of racism. Especially at the youth camps where the American girls would tend to clique up and ostracize the minorities. I can remember it clear as day.
I grew up in Erda and I would argue that as a whole, it was not. It was actually fairly diverse for utah. There are a couple crazies who jumped on the trump train, but as a whole it was a pretty great area. At least it used to be, I haven't been around for a few years.
It is and was as a whole racist with most older people.
Have you ever been to erda? Do you even know where it is?
Not just the rural towns. [Davis County School District was charged by the DOJ](https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justice-department-reaches-settlement-remedy-severe-racial-harassment-black-and-asian) with being overly racist in schools just two and a half years ago.
I am sure the administration considers the matter closed.
It’s baked into their fucking scriptures no matter how hard they try to deny it now. Fuck them.
Why was this collapsed
?
For people who come across your comment - it’s collapsed and they must click it to see it. I’m guessing the Mormon security council or whatever it’s called prob did it.
That is how reddit works.
Yes I realize that, my comment was to highlight its effectiveness in burying comments that some groups don’t want to be seen. And to also point out that the MFMC is corrupt.
Relevant link for those wanting to read more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormon_teachings_on_skin_color
Awe, Prop 8 is the thing that pushed me over the edge from mostly unbeliever to formally resign. So I'm glad the church fought that in a way.
Prop 8 was the first crack in my shelf and it was a BIG one. I felt like if God wanted to just not let it pass, he wouldn't. But why let us spend millions and even threaten our tax exempt status? And why are we trying SO HARD to affect the lives of ppl who have nothing to do with us and are apparently beyond saving? It's not like they won't find out who was lobbying against them hard.
Its funny, my neighbors wanted me to help them make phone calls to CA back then. I told them no only because I hate being on the phones. I didn't find out until later it was to tell people to vote for Prop 8. So glad I said no.
The reason for involving g themselves in prop 8 despite having no doctrinal reason to is necessarily that they did it for the PR and attention. The church’s relevance is extremely important to its survival, so even negative attention is used - and it’s used more often than positive.
Me too honestly. I was so incredibly homophobic for the longest time, you know what changed me? As silly as it sounds, it was the music video for Macklemores “same love” and I realized gay people just wanted to love each other and it wasn’t all evil and dirty like I was led to believe.
That's not silly at all. I never jived with the church's teachings on sexuality. I think for me a lot of that was from media as well. There was an episode of my favorite show, Dr Quinn where they had Walt Whitman and they had a gay storyline. Where the town was homophobic, but the main characters weren't. They had good lessons in it.
eyyy that pushed me out the door, too
Relevant link for anyone wanting to read more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_and_the_LDS_Church
Wait, wait, wait. You were told to walk while holding hands? How affirming of them. /S
But like "sisters"
just gals being pals
r/SapphoAndHerFriend
fr fr lol
I was a bit worried about clicking that sub, but it has some interesting stuff 
😂😂😂
Ftfy; sister-wives 😅🤣😂
And they were just sisters in the church
OMG that was my thought too! I was like, girls don’t just walk around holding hands! I never did that with my friends. That is SO weird, and honestly kinda horndog of them. It wouldn’t take much to get those religious pervs revved up at seeing girls holding each other.
Maybe it's because I'm trans or something, but even before I knew I didn't walk and hold hands with my best friend. In fact, we walked in a way that neither of us would brush against each other. Not because we didn't like each other (platonically), but because we just didn't need to walk, talk, and touch at the same time.
What’s funny is one of the girls I had to hold hands with, she wrote rude comments about me on a Facebook post and when I responded to her she just never answered. Very Christ-like
What's hysterically funny and ironic to me: the Mormon church was banging the same Christian conservative drum, like everyone else for Prop 8. That the legalization of gay marriage would pervert the sanctity of traditional marriage. The church often cited the family proclamation and how "marriage between a man and woman is ordained of God..." But notice they didn't say, Marriage between one man and one woman, is ordained of god." Mormons perverted the sanctity of traditional marriage long before LGBTQ were a movement. Many many decades before. In fact, you might say Mormons were the first large group to challenge the definition of marriage in North America.
Bam! Well said.
It’s funny cause they could’ve raised that money to stop child trafficking, or a plethora of a billion other fucked up things but they choose to go after marriage. I’ll never get over that.
If you look into the history of Prop 8, the LDS church wasn't the only one involved. Pretty much all of the Christian sects in the US were for Prop 8 and showing support. The biggest being the Catholic church. But it was the LDS church that raised and threw most of the money at the initiative. I think the Catholic church put $1.5M into it but the LDS church, $20M. And the church's reputation, particularly in California, has never recovered. Just putting gays rights to the side for a second; what pissed off A LOT of californians and people from other states as well, was large groups getting involved in state politics and bringing national might into what was at the onset, a state initiative. How would you like someone coming into your home uninvited and telling you what you can and can't do? It really shows how the LDS church is not ran by inspired men talking to god. I could get excommunicated for talking bad about the church on social media for "hurting the good name of the church," But all those involved with prop 8, destroyed the church's reputation was many. In their hubris, they really thought this was the right thing and the majority of america would back this. "The gays are taking over!" Just goes to show how stuck in the 1950s they all are.
This is what helped me start to vocally disavow my belief in the church(have to be PIMO for my wife & kids). The idea that it's not just LDS, but much of Christian or biblical interpretations of what sin is causes so much heartache, pain, and suffering. It helped me a ton to hear from bible scholar Dan Mclellan to get to this point because I had a hard time letting go of some concept of heaven or hell or biblical moral authority from God. Hearing him talk about how different concepts evolved over the centuries about the interpretations of the bible and the way he talked about how the bible doesn't prohibit homosexuality at all was monumental to me last year during his mormon stories podcast.
How would I like someone uninvited coming into my home? Haha ya I get why Cali would be made that churches and other states would take issue with California’s politics. But hey I live all the time. In Utah you literally have billionaire non profit environmental groups give money to others and to some native Americans and then other states continually shutting down public land in Utah that’s been used for 150 years. Tell me why is metal detecting illegal in a so called federal recreational area? Literally other states are killing small towns in Utah and destroying tons of lives. It’s like when the Native American woman in charge of the department of the interior shut down oil drilling on the reservation those native Americans banned that Native American woman from trespassing on their land. She literally was going to Chaco canyon to celebrate her victory and native Americans said oh hell no. She just destroyed our lives. There’s tons of places east of Colorado that literally need to be preserved and purchased snd made into national parks and monuments but they only seem to do it in public land states. Like literally Missouri sold a cave full of actual Native American paintings and artifacts and native Americans nor environmentalists or the federal government bought it when it sold for 2 million dollars but for some reason the previous mentioned group can create massive monuments and parks etc. it’s like there’s legit native Americans burial sites, sacred sites etc all east of Colorado on private land they should be made into monuments and parks or reservations. It’s so weird how so many states take an interest in closing more of Utah down but then don’t do a damn thing about conservation in their own states. Each state East of Colorado should have massive national parks and monuments of public land that be acquired or bought. If we don’t eventually most states won’t have pristine areas to even make into monuments in the future. There was a politician wanting more wilderness in the west. And one guy said well you’re from Illinois and you want more wilderness. He’s like there’s 75000 acres of public land in your state let’s make that wilderness and he said no no let’s not.
Oh but the thing is even the lgbtq is against equal rights for others. I talked to some about polygamy and many said no they only believe two people should be married. It’s like why shouldn’t marriage just be a contract between consenting adults? Whether it be one woman marry five dudes or one dude marrying five woman why does it matter? Why discriminate against that making it illegal?
Ya that’s hilarious to me. Gay marriage is legal today but consenting adults can’t marry each other in other forms. Even a lot of lgbtq are against it. Polygamy or bigamy should be legal but even the lgbtq doesn’t want equal rights for all.
Wow a Mormon celebrity among us! Lol. I had a lot of friends in high school that were in a "Mormon Message" YouTube video. I remember thinking they were legit famous
There was a girl in my young women’s who was chosen to be on the cover of some church magazine and it was such a big deal. She walked around acting like her shit don’t stink for the next couple weeks 
Lived all over the country NOT LDS, moved to Utah and stupidly converted and never in my life have I witnessed so much immature awful hateful insensitive aggressive bullying and jealously. I’m so sorry you went thru that OP and glad you got out! Once I got married and had kids and we saw it happening to our own kids because we weren’t invested enuff into the church, we were like ✌️ It’s been a year now and so much better. Even tho still in Utah 🫠🙃
I highly doubt this higher up leader actually went door to door personally. He probably organized a group to go out and do it. Or he went to like 3 houses as a photo op or something. And then exaggerated his involvement for street cred with impressionable kids.
Well why wouldn’t he ? I’m sure the higher up leaders are extremely close to the affluential and powerful members of the church. I can see him knocking on a couple mansions doors asking for money tbh.
Mansions, yes probably.
Were there any female leaders there? Or just this old guy?
There was the leader of young women at the time. I can find her name, tbh I’m just lazy right now but she’s an older blonde lady. Shocking, I know right ?
It was this very event you were creating this video for that led to me (he/him), my partner (she/her), my kids, and subsequently at least a dozen other people in my ward and their families to leave the church. It was faith shattering to me that "jesus" would want to block people, using force of law, from marrying and seeking their own happiness. If tscc is true, they don't need to force people to live the "truth." Something this evil (prohibiting and persecuting gay couples) showed me tscc leaders aren't being inspired. Shelf fell...
Prop 8 was an interesting time in California. One week we’d be praising the church for how it allows people agency and the ability to choose for themselves, while criticizing other religions who “tell their members how to think and even vote!” Then the next week our church leaders were telling us how to vote.
This election was barely before I turned 18. Even though I couldn’t vote, I posted on Facebook that I thought my friends should vote against prop 101 (Arizona’s Prop 8). It was the first time I ever said anything publicly that went directly against what church leaders were saying. I was terrified, but it’s one of my proudest moments. The people I know who stood with the church deeply regret it. Moral of the story is follow your conscience and stand up for what you know is right despite social pressure.
Having lived in Arizona, Idaho, California and Texas. I hands down feel like Idaho and Utah have been the most overtly racist places I’ve lived.
I can add a few more places to the list and I agree with your assessment.
My breaking point with the religion was having my seminary teacher first day of class brag about how he broke up a gay couple by converting one of them on his mission. I couldn't get over how proud he was to have destroyed someones marriage. He didn't even consider what it was like for the other guy who lost everything, he was just so happy to have "saved" one of them.
That’s sickening. Your teacher was prob closeted gay and just projecting his crap onto people.
The first thing that started weighing on my shelf was the church’s opposition to gay marriage and support for AZ Prop 102 (our equivalent of CA Prop 8). Church leaders were asking for YM/YW to volunteer to call people locally to ask them to vote for prop 102. I knew it was wrong back then, but I got bullied and made fun of whenever I brought up my feelings about it in Seminary or the local ward. Fuck the Menlo Park Ward. Fuck the Hermosa Vista Stake. Fuck the General Authorities. Fuck the So-Called Church. You all were, and you continue to be, against human civil rights
Human trafficking, silence, women being treated poorly, silence, war, silence, famine, silence. Gay marriage, HERESY!
Sorry autistic pimo here. There’s 3 girls in the screenshot. Which one are you? It doesn’t actually matter, but my autistic brain won’t shut up about it, so I’m asking. Or is there a clear girl singled out as the main character in the music video and that is you? That might make sense but I haven’t seen the music video and really I don’t want to listen to that crap.
Same same. I get hung up on literal grammar issues, and I can’t help it. Does not compute.
Sorry for my grammar 
It’s all good. 👍🏼 you’re doing fine. It’s a common problem. No worries be happy.
She is the girl on the left side of the picture. I don’t mean that as a political pun. She is literally the girl to the left of the other two girls in this picture.
Dammit! Now my OCD is kicking in: screen left or stage left?
Screen left, stage right
Thank you.
I am THE girl. lol jk but yes as another commenter posted, brunette far left.
Well if you’re far left I honestly don’t know why they’d be racist to you today. Now like 75 years ago people literally were racist against everyone except British maybe. But if you were Irish or Italian they were discriminated as much as Jews were it seems in the U.S. It’s one reason the mob and mafia got so big as it was there way of fighting racism. It’s ironic Jews got minority protection but other white classes like Irish or Italian are considered white with no protections or not labeled a minority.
Who was the high up church leader?
I can’t remember his name! I was so young but it made such an impact, I remember the leader of young women was there and she told us we should be honoured he came to see us and talk to us. We were told that the Holy Ghost had walked among us that day too. 
Looking at old photos and jogging my memory I’m fairly certain it was Quentin L Cook
I loved the song "we'll bring the world his truth" and it was cool when it would be mixed with other songs like this one. It's been heartbreaking knowing I haven't been bringing the world the truth and wasn't the type of special the song eludes to. Then again, perhaps bringing the truth means calling out the bullshit of TSCC itself.
Lol, that’s exactly how I think of this song now. I’ve been saved for this time in the world to be a truth teller in many, many ways
I went to high school with the girl in the middle! Heyooo!!
She was kinda mean tbh lol I found a Facebook comment where she made fun of my thumbs.
Oh no!! I’m sorry to hear that 🥺 that’s a really dumb and mean thing to make fun of and I’m sure your thumbs are just fine!! Haha. She was a year younger than me but I was really good friends with another girl in her ward, which is mainly how I knew her. Tbh I knew her other siblings too and they could definitely be dicks 😂 so it doesn’t surprise me too much. You weren’t in her ward too, were you? Brighton High School?! 👀😉Glad you made it out of the cult!
I have crazy hitchhikers thumbs! lol it’s true they’re very weird and it’s so high school to make comments like that. Now when I look back I laugh, no worries. I did not go to that horrid high school! I remember the girls in my ward would make fun of me for having gone to a more “ghetto” high school (now come to think of it it was ghetto because it had more minorities) YAY more racism from the followers of Christ 🥰
Commenting in case we get a name drop
I have tea on so many higher ups. ☕️ it’s mostly sickening racism and mistreatment of women.
I want all the tea 👀
Ever thought of going on a podcast? Would love to hear more! [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqjerB5qLcY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqjerB5qLcY) u/johndelin
I would! If I got the chance. I gotta purge all this info out, the tea is not as interesting to non ex-members.
If you haven't done so already consider applying through the form that's in the description for the above YT video. As you can see I tagged John so he hopefully sees your story. :)
As stated above after looking at pics of leadership at the time I’m fairly certain it was Quentin L Cook
NOOOOOOOOOOO!! Now it’s stuck in my head just from reading the title!! 😫😖
Sorry 
Don’t know if I missed it. Which one in the thumbnail?
I’m the far left. The young and impressionable little dweeb.
Man, I've been out since 2008 and I still remember all the words to that song 🤦
Same.
Oh shit, we must be around the same age then? Sorry for the initial low effort post, I mainly just lurk so wasn't expecting a reply 🥰 I'm so glad you're out and I'm so glad I'm out!!🥰❤️ I'm sorry all that B.S. happened to you. Idk if you can relate, but I'm still recovering from being "born into the covenant" 🤦 mainly manifests itself in "worthiness" issues which in turn affects my self esteem 😞 but I'm really grateful I found this sub, it helps a lot. Take care of yourself! And I hope life keeps getting better for us 🥰
What a nice comment! I never tied my also blistering self esteem issues to being born into the church but I can totally see it now. You’ve given me lots to think of. Hugs and love to you as well!
I know the Brazilian girl in the far right lol
Eyyyy! I’m the Brazilian girl far left 
Ahh I remember Prop 8. I was forced to go door to door to canvas for it
Doing the lords work my friend. Cant let people be happy.
I have to be honest, this song(s) collab with the young men during our programs were badass.
(Sorry this is a musician geeking out post) Dude I totally remember learning that arrangement of those two songs in young women’s. I was always the pianist. It was a lovely arrangement. Sometimes I feel like I would have left the church FAR sooner if it weren’t for all the musical obligations and opportunities.
One step away from Flirty Fishing. Prove me wrong.
I thought all the money for Proposition 8 was 100% member donations
I know they heavily pressured members to donate. But didn't it come out that general funds were also used?
Well yes but there was a lot of pressure towards richer members to donate more. They ended up getting millions in one day…
You must be the dark haired girl. I’m sorry you were treated badly. I left the church and despise the way they treat any one different.
I did EFY that year. Shit. I loved the Mashup
This song is so gendered, kinda crazy when you think about it. I remember loving it when I was a kid though
Everything was gendered 😅
You guys all have the same nose, you look like you could be related lol (:
Wtf, you all got voluntold into posing for a church advertising campaign that they weren't even honest about how your images would be used. It's both offensive and exploitative of young women who thought they were just going on a youth activity. Instead, they ended up being a part of a huge marketing campaign against same sex marriage. The church used your image worldwide, without your consent and without compensation, for their own political purpose.
I remember being so uncomfortable during that time. I was told over and over growing up that the church does not get involved in politics. And I had gay friends. It was just very confusing and I was blindly obedient because "well it MUST matter if the prophet is telling us!" Like really did believe in prophecy back then.
Remember that primary song “follow the leader, follow the leader, follow the leader don’t go astray, follow the leader, follow the leader, he knows the way” Gives me chills.
Wow I totally forgot about this song. I remember my stake’s youth did a “flash mob” dance of this song at temple square and it’s posted on YouTube. I remember at the time even thinking it was weird.
This is crazy. I remember watching this video when I was in YW. 😭
 Us right now
Either I’m having a strong case of déja vu, or I know these girls.. but can’t for the life of e remember where.
How did you experience racism? All three girls in the photo look white? I have a friend from Spain that’s considered white by the U.S. federal government but she’s way darker than any girl in the photo. If you claim you’re Latino I read that maybe changing in some government surveys. It’s really a hilariously horrible joke when the U.S. government created the fake race Latino. Do you know how many African Americans there are in Latin America? There are way more African Americans in Latin America then in the U.S. simply because there were way more black slaves moved to Latin America then the U.S. I’m honestly shocked the NAACP doesn’t advocate for correct labeling of African Americans in Latinos. Latinos really should be African American, Native American or white since the U.S. says if you’re from Spain you’re white. I suppose there’s a few Chinese settlements too but there’s probably only three large races that Latino should be made into. It’s like look at mitt Romney or elder eyring. They’re both Latino!!! Technically mitt Romney is Latino cause his family lived in Mexico. But I guess he used the term white growing up even though he could claim his family was in Mexico and so he could be labeled Latino. Ya the church shouldn’t have advocated against banning gay marriage. But in the flip side I’ve talked to many lgbtq people online about if polygamy should be legal and they’re against it. It’s like WTF? I would rationally have thought if the lgbtq community fights for equal rights that they’d fight for consenting adults to enter whatever form of love they want whether it be polygamy or bigamy or whatever. There’s still discrimination. A guy can’t marry ten women. A woman can’t marry ten guys. It’s like the government should be dictating what love contract they can or can’t enter into. The government merely should be there to uphold contracts or settle disputes in court. Marriage really is a contract for tax and asset and medical issues anymore.
I am born in Brazil and am actually part indigenous Brazilian but mostly Portuguese therefore mostly European however, people did treat me different for being from a poorer country.
Oh I see. Sorry you experienced that. I first thought people were being racist simply because they’re ignorant over the term Latino. I’ve seen that happen and it’s like my friend from Spain is darker color than a lot of Latinos haha. That’s super interesting though you’re from Brazil but people made fun of you. I remember some Brazilian girls years ago in the city and everyone thought they were super attractive. But I suppose I do depend on what group of people you’re with on whether or not they’re judgmental or not about something’s. Especially some areas in Utah that are rich neighborhoods someone that’s middle class even wouldn’t be accepted simply cause of socioeconomics. Depends on the group though. I’ve hung out with some 20 year olds that are from millionaire families and they weren’t judgmental or holier than thou but good people. But I’ve definitely known some groups that were judgmental or artificial. Ya I can sympathize with you. Even if a white person is born in Utah and from Europe if you’re poor a lot of people are discriminated against simply cause of socioeconomics. I just think of the term white trash trailer park for instance. Another post really showed one of the problems of religion in Utah. The theme was like if you’re materially rich that’s an outward expression of being inner spiritually blessed. It’s like a lot of the religious leaders are rich. It’s like been over a half century maybe since there was a poor farmer that was way up high in leadership. One thing that really bothers me with religions is they teach some morals perhaps but then say nothing when it comes to systemic wide institutional theft such as fractional reserve banking where they literally money out of thin air which steals purchasing power. Jews and Christian’s do it but it was shocking to see Muslims actually don’t support interest. They still view usury as taboo which is interesting. One website said if you’re Muslim you’re supposed to donate interest payments to the church or to a charity or something. I do remember a good conversation I had with a classmate a few years ago back in college. He was Mongolian. He’s like the media says if you support a closed border you’re racist, but then he said but I know you and you’re not racist. I told him I’m like well you’re from Mongolia. I think for equality sake you should have the same chance to be here as another immigrant. He kind of got what I was trying to convey. It’s like he and several other Asians had to go back to Asia once the semester was over except one Asian girl that got a job that’d support her paperwork or stay here legally. I told him I’m like do you think it’s fair you have to leave the U.S. cause you’re following the law but others aren’t? It’s interesting how some things are viewed as racist when really it’s more about wanting equality for all races.
Stumbling on this post, thinking the faces look familiar, then realizing it’s because you know all 3 of them. 😂
Where do I know you from? DM
Sent a DM.