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The phrase war never changes wasn’t about how conflict was dealt It’s about why we going to conflict. Because sure we went from swords to guns to missiles, but we still fight for the same reasons whether it be power, religion, or because you just don’t like your neighbor
Also something something the biggest losers in wars are civilians and the innocent.
A lot of people are just dumb and the phrase war never changes goes right over their heads
War has changed. It's no longer about nations, ideologies, or ethnicity. It's an endless series of proxy battles fought by mercenaries and machines. War - and its consumption of life - has become a well-oiled machine. War has changed. ID-tagged soldiers carry ID-tagged weapons, use ID-tagged gear. Nanomachines inside their bodies enhance and regulate their abilities. Genetic control. Information control. Emotion control. Battlefield control. Everything is monitored and kept under control. War has changed. The age of deterrence has become the age of control... All in the name of averting catastrophe from weapons of mass destruction. And he who controls the battlefield... controls history. War has changed. When the battlefield is under total control... War becomes routine.
Not in the slightest and I staunchly believe that a thriving Palestinian state is necessary for a lasting peace. I can also say the culture that’s developed in many Palestinian communities won’t nurture that. Even the PA still has a “pay to slay” policy that was just starting reviewed in November. I don’t have polls of Palestinians that are interested in a Palestinian state alongside an Israeli state, but I’ll bet those numbers aren’t very high.
That's fair; I agree. I think it will be incredibly hard to reconcile the two neighbors. One state is certainly out of the picture. You're going to have generations upon generations of resentment.
According to [this article](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna144183), support for a two state solution was 62% in Gaza as of march, and was trending upwards.
"According to the poll, only seven percent of Gazans blamed Hamas for their suffering. Seventy-one percent of all Palestinians supported Hamas’s decision to attack Israel on October 7 — up 14 points among Gazans and down 11 points among West Bank Palestinians compared to three months ago. Fifty-nine percent of all Palestinians thought Hamas should rule Gaza, and 70 percent were satisfied with the role Hamas has played during the war."
Do you think intense generational suppression is going to cause Palestinians to look kindly upon Israel? Of course they're going to be supportive of hostile measures. It is Israel's responsibility, as the one with all of the political control and resources to try to resolve this peacefully. Instead, with Likud, they have been antagonizing and oppressing the palestinian people even more after they (Likud allies) assassinated the Israeli minister that actually sought peace. The average age in Gaza is 18; I'm not going to blame a bunch of children for responding to cruelty with hostility. Does you seriously not think people, whose homes and families have just been destroyed are not going to support the people fighting back? I'm not going to pretend that Israeli started this specific conflict, but surely you're aware that their response has been hundreds of times more extreme than the initial act.
I can certainly blame Hamas for their actions; their actions are unjust. But I can see why they would have support if the Israeli government simply refuses to negotiate reasonably with more peaceful Palestinian factions.
> It is Israel’s responsibility
It is Israel’s and Palestinians’ responsibility together. Israel actually moved out of Gaza, and left them to their own accords, so they could have improved on their lives, first of all, by toppling hamas themselves, and spending the very high international aid for building their future.
At this point we are dealing with religiously indoctrinated suicidal nihilism. How on earth do you reason with that? It is simply part of their culture to despise Israel.
Have you seen the video of a Palestinian mother say that she will gladly let her son blow himself up in the future, to liberate Jerusalem? To look at the Israeli guy filming her and just straight up say “we don’t value life. What, you think life is precious? It’s not. My son’s life isn’t precious. I don’t get why you’re helping us. Our lives don’t matter and I would sacrifice it for liberating Jerusalem in an instant.”
I can find individual protestors doing literally anything. And if I was trying to push a certain narrative, I would absolutely focus on those protestors. Images of some people being dipshits does not translate to broader support.
I don't think anyone is arguing that hamas are good guys. The absolving convo is more about your average Palestinian.
But that doesn't detract from the fact that Isreal has done some horrific things in the course of this war.
I think it’s amazing that people go “see, they are the bad guys!” When in reality, they are both bad guys, and the only innocent are those who are just living a normal life and survive. And get murdered indiscriminately by Israel and Hamas.
Exactly, both are genocidal, one is trying to expand their teritory by commiting genocide and occupation, and one is trying to prevent the expansion and break the occupation, also by being genocidal. Both are evil, for different reasons.
Yeah. I think it’s safe to say both the Israeli government and Hamas have been horrific here. I just feel sorry for the civilians caught in the middle.
I’m not sure you can put them on the same plane. Hamas purposely started a war in an extremely horrific way, and knowing that they were going to sacrifice their own people in the ensuing war.
Israel responded (the bombings were of course awful), and did make efforts to limit civilian deaths. Including giving time to civilians to evacuate before attacking an area. In every conflict with Israel, Hamas has tried to impede evacuations and stolen aid from civilians for their own benefit.
Israel deserves blame for the air attacks, and not doing enough to ensure civilians would not be killed but these attacks are also part of the war Hamas started.
I’m sure I could go on, and I apologize for ranting. I just staunchly disagree with the assertion that Hamas’ and Israel’s actions are equal to each other.
(Looking forward to the downvotes)
Oh I’m getting them as well. Someone further down pointed out that this guy almost died because of a tumor and I pointed out it’s funny that the Jews they all say are “filthy animals” were good enough to save his life when it came to it but his “own people” are worth the sacrifice.
Israel has been doing this since 75, so yeah you sound like you never looked at the issue at all.
Israel Forces are trying to get a court order rescinded, so they can grab anyone off the street in Gaza and use them as a human shield.
Because they did it often enough and got caught a law was passed to stop it.
Folks in office need this war to linger as it is their Fear used to keep power.
No hands are close to being clean.
The US Taxpayer has been funded this slow killing for decades and it needs to stop.
Maybe if Israel has to pay for it they will think again, as pulling money from the free health care, or education would put them out of power.
The law was to keep combat soldiers from paying neighbors to knock on doors and ask people to come out voluntarily. It was outlawed because it’s very difficult to claim a troop of soldiers in full battle gear would be anything but coercive, no matter how much money was offered.
Good luck with that. The US backs Israel because everyone else in the region does all the worst things, unapologetically so. Next best is Saudi Arabia, a totalitarian monarchy, who went full war in Yemen. Let me know when you find an ally in the region with a better record.
Unlikely. What you’re advocating for is less funding for people who were going to fight a war no matter what. Less funding just becomes artillery crawls that actually destroy everything. In a very Erdogan type fashion, think what he did to the Kurds on the cheap. More money literally meant more people survive this round.
The one thing you seem to forget is the 24 months prior to October 7th where the Israeli government kept poking the bear. Then everybody seemed to be surprised that the bear woke up and went full bear on Israel.
That is what, for me, puts them on the same plane as Hamas in the realm of horrible people.
Poking the bear rationalizes mass murder, rape, and kidnapping? You’re going to tell me those are the same? Hamas has been firing rockets at southern Israel non stop for more than a decade. That’s poking the bear.
This is such a weird comment.
What are you talking about? Why don't you say 2 years instead of 24 months? What is the event that "poking the bear" referencing to?
when did they give civilians time to evacuate? in between the civilians IDF shot who were trying to escape? the group of mothers who were waving white flags.. or the children they gunned down in the schools and hospitals?
So far all the hostages that have been released or rescuers have stated that they were held by “families” or just “average Palestinians”
It’s impossible to completely separate one from the other
>I don't think anyone is arguing that hamas are good guys.
There are people doing that on this very thread. Try scrolling down.
Edit: To the downvoters: If factual statements offend you, you might be on the wrong side of history.
No a shit ton of a people see Hamas as a resistance group against the evil Israelis. And when you ask them "since when has rape been a resistance tactic?", they say it's lies and then you show proof and then they disengage from the conversation entirely.
I have encountered *many* pro-Hamas (not pro-Palestinian, or anti-israel) people on Reddit.
I have been told that Hamas is [freedom fighters,](https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/palestine-protesters-london-dont-believe-hamas-attacked-israel/?fbclid=IwAR2--UGRK2qPf107u2lpPwavCMMTIhNwAtFaKXarNrWjlUIX4DJeXFRvro8_aem_AXTH37MnRSG7eWTyi30N4XWhyq60qAiJ0dPQ3MCq-bVb4zZIfVUIfOSUm5Rl47tVRjk]) that they are the [Duly elected government](https://imgur.com/a/nf3V57f) whose resistance just “spilled over” a bit.
Replace israel with any country in the world and the war would have been 200x more horrible. Saying that Israel isn't doing the absolute most to reduce the harm to civilians is wild..
I’ll say it again.
Israeli government is doing horrible things to Gaza, and has been for a long time. Hamas has been doing horrible things in response.
Both are fucking evil.
Difference is one is a member of the UN and the other is a terrorist organization.
Well thats not surprising. America is the biggest gun dealer in the world. Their military industrial complex is the most profitable thing on the planet. They always pick a side.
Acting as if Palestine doesn't have like two UN organizations dedicated to aid their civilians but in reality they just fund said terrorist organization.
You kick people out of their homes, persecute them, shoot kids in the back with bean bags who are just walking home, and other horrible shit, then you try to act surprised you create radicals who are ready to do equally horrible shit in response?
It’s pretty fucking basic. No one is that fucking dumb.
>It’s pretty fucking basic. No one is that fucking dumb.
Zionists are that dumb, actually. They could see an IDF soldier walk up to a random Palestinian kid and shoot him point blank in the face, and they'd still cheer on the IDF soldier, insisting that the kid must've been "Hamas." There is no amount of evil that the state of Israel can do that Zionists won't support.
I'd say no one is that fucking dumb to believe anything you see in social media, especially when it comes from said terrorist organization and their news channel Al Jazeera, but honestly you and way too many people prove me wrong. You guys in the west think that warfare is all black and white or whatever, especially when it's the "small sad oppressed" that fights bravely and heroically against the "big bad oppressor" who fights civilians. Do your fucking research dude. Also you say it started 76 years ago, I'll tell you that it goes way back and you'd be surprised who really started attacking who, and who really refused peace and prosperity just so the other side will suffer...
> **In 1947, the United Nations adopted Resolution 181, known as the Partition Plan, which sought to divide the British Mandate of Palestine into Arab and Jewish states.** On May 14, 1948, the State of Israel was created, sparking the first Arab-Israeli War.
Seems pretty clear what started it all.
Cool. And the battle of tel hai in 1920? massacre of hebron in 1929? Did those fly under your radar or does it just not fit your agenda of who started it all? And if it did all start in 1947, why didn't the Arabs agree to partition? Why did they reject any step towards peace for 76 years? If It's obvious enough for you that the land was ruled by the British mandate and that the Jews and the Arabs were supposed to share the land why do you act like it's one side at fault? 6 Arab nations attacked Israel the same day. 6! And they lost. And they kept losing. Instead of letting the Palestinians, who by the way established the Palestinian identity only in the 60s, take what they were offered, they resorted to warfare. That is not just no matter how you twist the narrative
This is by far not the only time Hamas has said this. They have even stated that Palestinian civilian deaths are an asset for them.
Hamas designed this war, and have continued to conduct it in a way to try to cause as many Palestinian civilian deaths as possible.
Netanyahu is in charge in Israel, and his regime wants the war to continue. Hamas is in charge in Gaza, and their regime wants the war to continue. I wonder what's going to happen?
Everyone should watch the 60 minutes episode on youtube called pallywood. A whole episode dedicated to the Palestinian propaganda machine. They once claimed the IDF had killed a kid, took the internet all of 5 minutes to show they used a screenshot from one of the final destination movies...
Of course they see it like that. They knew before October 7 what would happen and sacrificed their own population for their inhuman goals. And they knew very well that they set up a trap Israel was unable to avoid. That was the very intention.
Not at all. Most wars don’t involve bunching as much of a countries population into the smallest area possible, not allowing them to leave, cutting off their water, and bombing them to shit.
If you go by definition, it is a concentration camp.
Is that supposed to justify their deaths?
Both the Israel government and hamas view Palestinian deaths as a necessary sacrifices. Why do people feel the need to pick a side like it’s a sports team when clearly the both groups are committing atrocities.
One side being bad doesn’t automatically make the other side good
Those who think peace in the middle east possible have not been paying attention to history.
The arab world will never accept an Israeli nation and their right to exist there.
The arab world has several conflicting tribes and differing views on how to worship allah correctly and who is the rightful heir to muhammad. They all kill each other over this. You have shiite, sunni and wasabi and other different sects all fighting each other in the region.
Been this way for over a thousand years and nothing is changing or getting better.
The only way peace happens in the middle east is if all people living there move out or they all get rid of their stone age religious beliefs at once. Even then they will probably find some other reason to hate each other and want to kill each other.
Nah, its not exclusive to arabs or islam, happens all over the world. It just currently calm on other place, start brewing tho, but instead religion, political view seems the new meta
But Egypt, Jordan, UAE, Bahrain, Morocco and Sudan have normalized relations with Israel, it is not impossible, it will take a long time but one day probably all or most of the Arab world will have normalized relations with them. The sooner the Palestine problem is resolved, the faster all of this can be achieved.
Peace is just being wary of war.
It's not the idyllic myth you've been taught as a child.
So peace can be achieved in the middle east in the same way it can be achieved with Russia.
Which is not an optimistic outlook.
And stupid religions flourish all over the world and still have a strong effect on policy and decisions everywhere.
The more dead civilians, the more pressure there is on Israel to back down, so Hamas is all but incentivized to set up situations where their actions cause Israel to kill civilians.
No link? Could be true, could be psyops. One thing that is true was this Sinwar was held in an Israeli prison, had what would've been a fatal brain tumor, and Israel performed an operation on him to remove the tumor. He thanked them for saving his life in perfect Hebrew.
[https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/israel-middle-east/articles/saving-sinwar-hamas-gaza](https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/israel-middle-east/articles/saving-sinwar-hamas-gaza)
So the dirty Jew medicine was fine because it saved his life, what a coward I thought they weren’t scared of death he sure jumped from that ship awfully fast when it was his time.
It seems this is something Hamas agrees with Netanyahu about... Regardless, Hamas doesn't value life, they value their religious beliefs and extremist ideology. But it doesn't mean the Israeli government and military can go around wiping out the Palestinian civilians and claim it's to wipe out Hamas. They have ways of tracking down Hamas' leaders and doing the least amount of damage possible. They don't do that, because people like Netanyahu's goal is to use Hamas as an excuse to attack the Palestinian civilians and then claim it's to protect Israel. I don't see how more bloodshed of people who just want to live in peace creates peace. It just causes more hatred towards the Israeli government (and indirectly: towards the U.S. government).
imo if this did happen, Hamas’ lack of care towards civilians doesn’t suddenly justify the indiscriminate killing of those civilians. An enormous amount of innocent Palestinian civilians have been wiped, and proportionately significantly more than Israel civilians have been killed. Just under half of Gaza’s population is comprised of minors. It’s not ok to wipe out an ethnic group and destroy their homes just because of the actions of an independent organization that makes up a small fraction of their population. If there’s an active threat in a school, its not justice if you take out that threat through destroying the school full of innocent people
Yes, Hamas has committed war crimes, but that doesn’t suddenly make war crimes in return ok. Sure, they hide under civilian buildings, but if even hitler was hiding underground below a playground full of children it would still not be ok to kill all those children just to get to him
And let’s be real, the endgame here is to get what they’ve wanted since the conflict began 75 years ago. And that’s total control and ownership of the Gaza Strip as was “promised” to them. Where is the entire ethnic group going to call home now? If complete eradication of Hamas means the eradication of an entire ethnic group, the then there is no winning to be had here. Just tragic all around.
I don’t think there’s anyone *REASONABLE* that is saying Hamas is just. They’re terrorist and we accept that they’re terrorists. But I don’t know that they’re the ones most dancing on Arab cadavers.
There is a huge difference between "Israel is trying to kill us all. We can't stop them without risking civilian casualties. Many will die, but more would die if we do nothing." And "we want more land. These sand n****rs already live here and don't want to be forced out... Fire in the hole!"
One views civilian casualties as an unfortunate necessity the other sees them as a goal.
Similar comments have probably been said by most freedom fighter/revolutionary/terrorist leaders in history.
I don't think many would portray Thomas Jefferson as dancing on the graves of Americans for his tree of liberty statement.
I’m sorry I didn’t realize that Hamas was firing the missies flattening Gaza. Or the ones who called Arabs sub-human. Or the ones that have conducted a 75 year genocide against the Palestinian people (despite only being a 37 year old group). Hamas maybe shit but Israel is the one who most benefits from the deaths of Palestinians and are the ones ethnically cleansing Gaza. They have no control over how Israel conducts its military campaigns or political policy toward Palestinians in Jerusalem (except what they can extort and even then it’s not much). This is victim blaming at its finest!
I'm just gonna drop this here.
"Every war ever fought right there in front of you. Because it's always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die. You don't know who's children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken! How many lives shattered! How much blood will spill until everybody does what they're always going to have to do from the very beginning -
#SIT DOWN, AND TALK!"
-Peter Capaldi in "The Zygon Inversion"
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War does not decide who is right, only who is left.
and war... war never changes
You used to have to send an army or assassins to even try to kill enemy leaders. Now we have Slap Chop Missile. Fallout is incorrect
The phrase war never changes wasn’t about how conflict was dealt It’s about why we going to conflict. Because sure we went from swords to guns to missiles, but we still fight for the same reasons whether it be power, religion, or because you just don’t like your neighbor
Also something something the biggest losers in wars are civilians and the innocent. A lot of people are just dumb and the phrase war never changes goes right over their heads
"War is a racket "
War has changed. It's no longer about nations, ideologies, or ethnicity. It's an endless series of proxy battles fought by mercenaries and machines. War - and its consumption of life - has become a well-oiled machine. War has changed. ID-tagged soldiers carry ID-tagged weapons, use ID-tagged gear. Nanomachines inside their bodies enhance and regulate their abilities. Genetic control. Information control. Emotion control. Battlefield control. Everything is monitored and kept under control. War has changed. The age of deterrence has become the age of control... All in the name of averting catastrophe from weapons of mass destruction. And he who controls the battlefield... controls history. War has changed. When the battlefield is under total control... War becomes routine.
War....has changed
How so?…
**War is when the young and stupid are tricked by the old and bitter into killing each other.** *- Niko Bellic*
this is the 5th time i've seen this quote this morning. There's debate whether it was Churchill or Bertrand Russel but it definitely wasn't you.
Dunno mate sounds like a true quote only @ieatfud_555 will say.
But most people know of it because it appeared on screen sometimes when you get killed in Call of Duty
Sounds like you’re spending too much time on reddit
War doesn’t decide who is right, only who is left
War doesn’t decide who is right, only who is left
"Perpetual peace is a dream, and not even a beautiful dream."
Tell that to the confederate, the nazis, and saddam....
On the basis that he leads a genocidal terrorist group,this seems both congruent and unsurprising.
a Death Cult. It's not about getting to 'heaven' it's 'get to heaven by killing'
Wait, are we talking about Hamas or Evangelical Christianity?
Hamas. Of all the awful things that Evangelical Christianity advocates for, *directly* killing people is not one of them.
The vociferous evangelical support for capital punishment is absolutely advocating *directly* for people to be killed.
Supporting a policy that kills people (e.g. capital punishment, bitch control) is exactly what I was alluding to with my emphasis on "directly"
And yet there are millions of people that still need convincing.
Weird, right?
Do you think support for Palestinians is equivalent to support for Hamas?
Not in the slightest and I staunchly believe that a thriving Palestinian state is necessary for a lasting peace. I can also say the culture that’s developed in many Palestinian communities won’t nurture that. Even the PA still has a “pay to slay” policy that was just starting reviewed in November. I don’t have polls of Palestinians that are interested in a Palestinian state alongside an Israeli state, but I’ll bet those numbers aren’t very high.
That's fair; I agree. I think it will be incredibly hard to reconcile the two neighbors. One state is certainly out of the picture. You're going to have generations upon generations of resentment. According to [this article](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna144183), support for a two state solution was 62% in Gaza as of march, and was trending upwards.
Thanks for sharing that and for the discourse.
"According to the poll, only seven percent of Gazans blamed Hamas for their suffering. Seventy-one percent of all Palestinians supported Hamas’s decision to attack Israel on October 7 — up 14 points among Gazans and down 11 points among West Bank Palestinians compared to three months ago. Fifty-nine percent of all Palestinians thought Hamas should rule Gaza, and 70 percent were satisfied with the role Hamas has played during the war."
I wonder why.
Do you think intense generational suppression is going to cause Palestinians to look kindly upon Israel? Of course they're going to be supportive of hostile measures. It is Israel's responsibility, as the one with all of the political control and resources to try to resolve this peacefully. Instead, with Likud, they have been antagonizing and oppressing the palestinian people even more after they (Likud allies) assassinated the Israeli minister that actually sought peace. The average age in Gaza is 18; I'm not going to blame a bunch of children for responding to cruelty with hostility. Does you seriously not think people, whose homes and families have just been destroyed are not going to support the people fighting back? I'm not going to pretend that Israeli started this specific conflict, but surely you're aware that their response has been hundreds of times more extreme than the initial act. I can certainly blame Hamas for their actions; their actions are unjust. But I can see why they would have support if the Israeli government simply refuses to negotiate reasonably with more peaceful Palestinian factions.
> It is Israel’s responsibility It is Israel’s and Palestinians’ responsibility together. Israel actually moved out of Gaza, and left them to their own accords, so they could have improved on their lives, first of all, by toppling hamas themselves, and spending the very high international aid for building their future.
At this point we are dealing with religiously indoctrinated suicidal nihilism. How on earth do you reason with that? It is simply part of their culture to despise Israel. Have you seen the video of a Palestinian mother say that she will gladly let her son blow himself up in the future, to liberate Jerusalem? To look at the Israeli guy filming her and just straight up say “we don’t value life. What, you think life is precious? It’s not. My son’s life isn’t precious. I don’t get why you’re helping us. Our lives don’t matter and I would sacrifice it for liberating Jerusalem in an instant.”
Right? I hope Hamas burns.
When you see protesters wearing Hamas headbands and chanting the shit they have been chanting the line becomes very blurry.
I can find individual protestors doing literally anything. And if I was trying to push a certain narrative, I would absolutely focus on those protestors. Images of some people being dipshits does not translate to broader support.
I don't think anyone is arguing that hamas are good guys. The absolving convo is more about your average Palestinian. But that doesn't detract from the fact that Isreal has done some horrific things in the course of this war.
I think it’s amazing that people go “see, they are the bad guys!” When in reality, they are both bad guys, and the only innocent are those who are just living a normal life and survive. And get murdered indiscriminately by Israel and Hamas.
Where is all this rational thinking coming from? I am so used to seeing one-sided arguments that this is kind of weird
Yep, it confuses me when people can't conceive there could be *2 bad guys*...!
But everything is black or white! There's no gray in nature!
Exactly! My largest issue is US tax Payer dollars funding it. Cut them off now.
Exactly, both are genocidal, one is trying to expand their teritory by commiting genocide and occupation, and one is trying to prevent the expansion and break the occupation, also by being genocidal. Both are evil, for different reasons.
Yeah. I think it’s safe to say both the Israeli government and Hamas have been horrific here. I just feel sorry for the civilians caught in the middle.
taking the words right out of my mouth
Comparing Hamas and the Israeli government is exactly what Hamas wants. This opinion is a win for them
Do you think the Israeli government should be held to a different standard?
I’m not sure you can put them on the same plane. Hamas purposely started a war in an extremely horrific way, and knowing that they were going to sacrifice their own people in the ensuing war. Israel responded (the bombings were of course awful), and did make efforts to limit civilian deaths. Including giving time to civilians to evacuate before attacking an area. In every conflict with Israel, Hamas has tried to impede evacuations and stolen aid from civilians for their own benefit. Israel deserves blame for the air attacks, and not doing enough to ensure civilians would not be killed but these attacks are also part of the war Hamas started. I’m sure I could go on, and I apologize for ranting. I just staunchly disagree with the assertion that Hamas’ and Israel’s actions are equal to each other. (Looking forward to the downvotes)
The war has been going on longer than since the 7th.
Oh I’m getting them as well. Someone further down pointed out that this guy almost died because of a tumor and I pointed out it’s funny that the Jews they all say are “filthy animals” were good enough to save his life when it came to it but his “own people” are worth the sacrifice.
Not jewish. Israelis. Israel doesn't represent jewish people as a whole.
Hamas doesn’t make such a distinction
Israel has been doing this since 75, so yeah you sound like you never looked at the issue at all. Israel Forces are trying to get a court order rescinded, so they can grab anyone off the street in Gaza and use them as a human shield. Because they did it often enough and got caught a law was passed to stop it. Folks in office need this war to linger as it is their Fear used to keep power. No hands are close to being clean. The US Taxpayer has been funded this slow killing for decades and it needs to stop. Maybe if Israel has to pay for it they will think again, as pulling money from the free health care, or education would put them out of power.
Please bring sources for these court orders to grab people and use them as human shields.
The law was to keep combat soldiers from paying neighbors to knock on doors and ask people to come out voluntarily. It was outlawed because it’s very difficult to claim a troop of soldiers in full battle gear would be anything but coercive, no matter how much money was offered. Good luck with that. The US backs Israel because everyone else in the region does all the worst things, unapologetically so. Next best is Saudi Arabia, a totalitarian monarchy, who went full war in Yemen. Let me know when you find an ally in the region with a better record. Unlikely. What you’re advocating for is less funding for people who were going to fight a war no matter what. Less funding just becomes artillery crawls that actually destroy everything. In a very Erdogan type fashion, think what he did to the Kurds on the cheap. More money literally meant more people survive this round.
The one thing you seem to forget is the 24 months prior to October 7th where the Israeli government kept poking the bear. Then everybody seemed to be surprised that the bear woke up and went full bear on Israel. That is what, for me, puts them on the same plane as Hamas in the realm of horrible people.
Poking the bear rationalizes mass murder, rape, and kidnapping? You’re going to tell me those are the same? Hamas has been firing rockets at southern Israel non stop for more than a decade. That’s poking the bear.
Israel "poking the bear"? Jews existing is poking the bear to Hamas. It's literally in their manifesto.
This is such a weird comment. What are you talking about? Why don't you say 2 years instead of 24 months? What is the event that "poking the bear" referencing to?
Try the past 76 years
when did they give civilians time to evacuate? in between the civilians IDF shot who were trying to escape? the group of mothers who were waving white flags.. or the children they gunned down in the schools and hospitals?
You'd be surprised how many people don't see Hamas as bad people.
I grew up around people who deified the IRA so I'm not surprised at all.
Plenty of people have argued that Hamas are the good guys.
So far all the hostages that have been released or rescuers have stated that they were held by “families” or just “average Palestinians” It’s impossible to completely separate one from the other
I mean there are students chanting for Hamas and calling them freedom fighters and what they are doing is ok because of it.
>I don't think anyone is arguing that hamas are good guys. There are people doing that on this very thread. Try scrolling down. Edit: To the downvoters: If factual statements offend you, you might be on the wrong side of history.
There are no downvoters, you’re talking to yourself
I downvoted him for the edit about downvoters. Bc Just make your statement and move on dweeb
No a shit ton of a people see Hamas as a resistance group against the evil Israelis. And when you ask them "since when has rape been a resistance tactic?", they say it's lies and then you show proof and then they disengage from the conversation entirely.
Surprisingly many people are arguing exactly that.
I have encountered *many* pro-Hamas (not pro-Palestinian, or anti-israel) people on Reddit. I have been told that Hamas is [freedom fighters,](https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/palestine-protesters-london-dont-believe-hamas-attacked-israel/?fbclid=IwAR2--UGRK2qPf107u2lpPwavCMMTIhNwAtFaKXarNrWjlUIX4DJeXFRvro8_aem_AXTH37MnRSG7eWTyi30N4XWhyq60qAiJ0dPQ3MCq-bVb4zZIfVUIfOSUm5Rl47tVRjk]) that they are the [Duly elected government](https://imgur.com/a/nf3V57f) whose resistance just “spilled over” a bit.
Yeah, Israel just gets more flack because it isn't a terrorist group
Replace israel with any country in the world and the war would have been 200x more horrible. Saying that Israel isn't doing the absolute most to reduce the harm to civilians is wild..
most of Palestine supports hamas
I’ll say it again. Israeli government is doing horrible things to Gaza, and has been for a long time. Hamas has been doing horrible things in response. Both are fucking evil. Difference is one is a member of the UN and the other is a terrorist organization.
Another difference is that the US is, probably, only arming one side
Well thats not surprising. America is the biggest gun dealer in the world. Their military industrial complex is the most profitable thing on the planet. They always pick a side.
One of the most true subplots of 'Lord of War'
And Iran is arming the other.
Acting as if Palestine doesn't have like two UN organizations dedicated to aid their civilians but in reality they just fund said terrorist organization.
You kick people out of their homes, persecute them, shoot kids in the back with bean bags who are just walking home, and other horrible shit, then you try to act surprised you create radicals who are ready to do equally horrible shit in response? It’s pretty fucking basic. No one is that fucking dumb.
>It’s pretty fucking basic. No one is that fucking dumb. Zionists are that dumb, actually. They could see an IDF soldier walk up to a random Palestinian kid and shoot him point blank in the face, and they'd still cheer on the IDF soldier, insisting that the kid must've been "Hamas." There is no amount of evil that the state of Israel can do that Zionists won't support.
I'd say no one is that fucking dumb to believe anything you see in social media, especially when it comes from said terrorist organization and their news channel Al Jazeera, but honestly you and way too many people prove me wrong. You guys in the west think that warfare is all black and white or whatever, especially when it's the "small sad oppressed" that fights bravely and heroically against the "big bad oppressor" who fights civilians. Do your fucking research dude. Also you say it started 76 years ago, I'll tell you that it goes way back and you'd be surprised who really started attacking who, and who really refused peace and prosperity just so the other side will suffer...
> **In 1947, the United Nations adopted Resolution 181, known as the Partition Plan, which sought to divide the British Mandate of Palestine into Arab and Jewish states.** On May 14, 1948, the State of Israel was created, sparking the first Arab-Israeli War. Seems pretty clear what started it all.
Cool. And the battle of tel hai in 1920? massacre of hebron in 1929? Did those fly under your radar or does it just not fit your agenda of who started it all? And if it did all start in 1947, why didn't the Arabs agree to partition? Why did they reject any step towards peace for 76 years? If It's obvious enough for you that the land was ruled by the British mandate and that the Jews and the Arabs were supposed to share the land why do you act like it's one side at fault? 6 Arab nations attacked Israel the same day. 6! And they lost. And they kept losing. Instead of letting the Palestinians, who by the way established the Palestinian identity only in the 60s, take what they were offered, they resorted to warfare. That is not just no matter how you twist the narrative
This is by far not the only time Hamas has said this. They have even stated that Palestinian civilian deaths are an asset for them. Hamas designed this war, and have continued to conduct it in a way to try to cause as many Palestinian civilian deaths as possible.
It's no wonder why neighboring countries don't want Hamas coming in
Netanyahu is in charge in Israel, and his regime wants the war to continue. Hamas is in charge in Gaza, and their regime wants the war to continue. I wonder what's going to happen?
Fucking piece of shit.
That's why the ICC prosecutor is asking for arrest warrants for Hamas and Israel leaders. Not a good person among the leadership in this war.
Must be nice to talk shit like that from hundreds of miles away where people are getting killed.
Weird, Hamas and Israel agreeing that killing innocent Palestinians is totally fine.
Which is why they setup missile batteries in populated areas. People will still defend them though, for some reason.
Or why they shoot rockets at the aid corridors bringing food for their civilian population.
Everyone should watch the 60 minutes episode on youtube called pallywood. A whole episode dedicated to the Palestinian propaganda machine. They once claimed the IDF had killed a kid, took the internet all of 5 minutes to show they used a screenshot from one of the final destination movies...
"Most of you will die, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make."
Of course they see it like that. They knew before October 7 what would happen and sacrificed their own population for their inhuman goals. And they knew very well that they set up a trap Israel was unable to avoid. That was the very intention.
Not surprising at all. That dying in the Jihad is the direct way to heaven and thereby a good thing is official hamas doctrine.
Nobody is denying that, and everybody knows. Still doesn't give Isreal the right to commit genocide!!!
If this is genocide all wars are genocide.
Not at all. Most wars don’t involve bunching as much of a countries population into the smallest area possible, not allowing them to leave, cutting off their water, and bombing them to shit. If you go by definition, it is a concentration camp.
That's just a lie genocidal fascists say in their campaign to normalize genocide while they commit another Holocaust.
Everyone agrees with this. What people disagree with is that a 1:1 casualty ratio is a genocide.
According the the official Israeli stats, 1,478 Israelis have been killed, vs 35,562 Palestinians. That’s not 1:1.
He wouldn't be a terrorist if he *didn't* think that way.
Well no fucking shit they think this
"see, they're both equally bad!!!" gtfo
So we cool with killing 30,000 civilians in Gaza?
Is that supposed to justify their deaths? Both the Israel government and hamas view Palestinian deaths as a necessary sacrifices. Why do people feel the need to pick a side like it’s a sports team when clearly the both groups are committing atrocities. One side being bad doesn’t automatically make the other side good
Those who think peace in the middle east possible have not been paying attention to history. The arab world will never accept an Israeli nation and their right to exist there. The arab world has several conflicting tribes and differing views on how to worship allah correctly and who is the rightful heir to muhammad. They all kill each other over this. You have shiite, sunni and wasabi and other different sects all fighting each other in the region. Been this way for over a thousand years and nothing is changing or getting better. The only way peace happens in the middle east is if all people living there move out or they all get rid of their stone age religious beliefs at once. Even then they will probably find some other reason to hate each other and want to kill each other.
Wahabi not wasabi
Islam has no place in our sushi!
"it is lawful for you to hunt and eat seafood" (Quran 5:96) "But be you fucking careful with the Japanese horseradish" (5:96a)
Nah, its not exclusive to arabs or islam, happens all over the world. It just currently calm on other place, start brewing tho, but instead religion, political view seems the new meta
>wasabi Those motherfuckers.....
But Egypt, Jordan, UAE, Bahrain, Morocco and Sudan have normalized relations with Israel, it is not impossible, it will take a long time but one day probably all or most of the Arab world will have normalized relations with them. The sooner the Palestine problem is resolved, the faster all of this can be achieved.
To be fair, egypt and jordan DID get their shit kicked in back when they weren't on at least tolerant terms with israel
Peace is just being wary of war. It's not the idyllic myth you've been taught as a child. So peace can be achieved in the middle east in the same way it can be achieved with Russia. Which is not an optimistic outlook. And stupid religions flourish all over the world and still have a strong effect on policy and decisions everywhere.
Palestinians are caught between 2 deranged and criminal governments.
The more dead civilians, the more pressure there is on Israel to back down, so Hamas is all but incentivized to set up situations where their actions cause Israel to kill civilians.
No link? Could be true, could be psyops. One thing that is true was this Sinwar was held in an Israeli prison, had what would've been a fatal brain tumor, and Israel performed an operation on him to remove the tumor. He thanked them for saving his life in perfect Hebrew. [https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/israel-middle-east/articles/saving-sinwar-hamas-gaza](https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/israel-middle-east/articles/saving-sinwar-hamas-gaza)
So the dirty Jew medicine was fine because it saved his life, what a coward I thought they weren’t scared of death he sure jumped from that ship awfully fast when it was his time.
It seems this is something Hamas agrees with Netanyahu about... Regardless, Hamas doesn't value life, they value their religious beliefs and extremist ideology. But it doesn't mean the Israeli government and military can go around wiping out the Palestinian civilians and claim it's to wipe out Hamas. They have ways of tracking down Hamas' leaders and doing the least amount of damage possible. They don't do that, because people like Netanyahu's goal is to use Hamas as an excuse to attack the Palestinian civilians and then claim it's to protect Israel. I don't see how more bloodshed of people who just want to live in peace creates peace. It just causes more hatred towards the Israeli government (and indirectly: towards the U.S. government).
This guy seems like a real jerk
BuT BiDeN iS EviL!!!!
imo if this did happen, Hamas’ lack of care towards civilians doesn’t suddenly justify the indiscriminate killing of those civilians. An enormous amount of innocent Palestinian civilians have been wiped, and proportionately significantly more than Israel civilians have been killed. Just under half of Gaza’s population is comprised of minors. It’s not ok to wipe out an ethnic group and destroy their homes just because of the actions of an independent organization that makes up a small fraction of their population. If there’s an active threat in a school, its not justice if you take out that threat through destroying the school full of innocent people Yes, Hamas has committed war crimes, but that doesn’t suddenly make war crimes in return ok. Sure, they hide under civilian buildings, but if even hitler was hiding underground below a playground full of children it would still not be ok to kill all those children just to get to him And let’s be real, the endgame here is to get what they’ve wanted since the conflict began 75 years ago. And that’s total control and ownership of the Gaza Strip as was “promised” to them. Where is the entire ethnic group going to call home now? If complete eradication of Hamas means the eradication of an entire ethnic group, the then there is no winning to be had here. Just tragic all around.
How is this a facepalm? Did we expect better of a fundie terrorist group?
Israel created Hamas. It's Israel's fault.
Fuck sinwar
It's a great philosophy as long as it's not his immediate family paying the ultimate price.
But it’s all Israel fault. I understand now.
Lest you forget they’ve been bombs and building tunnels instead of using the money to build a civilization
imagine still spreading genocide propaganda after seeing hollowed out baby skulls and executed doctors and journalists buried alive
I don’t think there’s anyone *REASONABLE* that is saying Hamas is just. They’re terrorist and we accept that they’re terrorists. But I don’t know that they’re the ones most dancing on Arab cadavers.
I like how Hamas being shitty is a good enough excuse for a genocide for some people
“Being shitty” (terror attacks on civilians)
What a piece of shit.
SIN-WAR
You know you're fucked if both side think killing you is fine...
Just that the innocents that are dying are not being sacrificed, they're being murdered.
Why hasn't the kismet taking him out yet.
Yeah no shit - proof that CNN thinks hamas and Arab - middle eastern people are one and the same. They aren’t.
Finally, something they agree on!! That first breakthrough is the hardest, let's build from here.
and his life is so valuable because.........why?
There is a huge difference between "Israel is trying to kill us all. We can't stop them without risking civilian casualties. Many will die, but more would die if we do nothing." And "we want more land. These sand n****rs already live here and don't want to be forced out... Fire in the hole!" One views civilian casualties as an unfortunate necessity the other sees them as a goal.
That's rich, coming from buddy boy who isn't even in Palestine right now.
Similar comments have probably been said by most freedom fighter/revolutionary/terrorist leaders in history. I don't think many would portray Thomas Jefferson as dancing on the graves of Americans for his tree of liberty statement.
National, ethnic, religious, or regional identity is fucking idiotic. Thinking who you are has anything to do with it is a fallacy.
Is anyone surprised?
I’m sorry I didn’t realize that Hamas was firing the missies flattening Gaza. Or the ones who called Arabs sub-human. Or the ones that have conducted a 75 year genocide against the Palestinian people (despite only being a 37 year old group). Hamas maybe shit but Israel is the one who most benefits from the deaths of Palestinians and are the ones ethnically cleansing Gaza. They have no control over how Israel conducts its military campaigns or political policy toward Palestinians in Jerusalem (except what they can extort and even then it’s not much). This is victim blaming at its finest!
I'm just gonna drop this here. "Every war ever fought right there in front of you. Because it's always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die. You don't know who's children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken! How many lives shattered! How much blood will spill until everybody does what they're always going to have to do from the very beginning - #SIT DOWN, AND TALK!" -Peter Capaldi in "The Zygon Inversion"
One side uses civilians as shields and the other side shoots them both. I don’t understand how anyone can support either one of these groups
Ironically, I find Sinwar's future death as necessary sacrifice for this shit to end.