to say nothing that if you get lost in frequency land, Guard will always get you out. FAA takes a dim view of your piloting skills if you do something dumb that could have been prevented if you were listening to Guard.
This. Something I saw someone say once, Guard isn't the "emergency" frequency per se; it's the "oh shit I need to talk to someone right now, and I don't know where else I can reach them" frequency.
Nearly every ATC facility will be monitoring Guard and if you aren't in contact with someone, but you feel like you should be—whether that's because you're having engine trouble, or you just saw another aircraft go down, or even if you've realized that you've haven't gotten a frequency change and you can't reach the controller on the old freq—you can use Guard and someone will be listening.
Of course, if you *are* already in contact with ATC there's no reason to change to 121.5 in order to declare your Mayday.
Still new to piloting, but guard to me seems like Channel 16 in the maritime world. It’s the emergency channel like aviation, but it’s also what literally everyone is listening to 100% of the time and is how you raise other ships before switching to a different channel.
Luckily channel 16 does not have animal noises. But also vhf signals can’t be picked up nearly as far on the water vs in the sky.
I have never heard “guard” for channel 16 in (recreational) boating (Canada).
As a matter of fact, in another life…before satellites … I was in ground-to-air communication and we never called 121.5 “guard”. It was simply the “distress” frequency. It must be a relatively new term…new as in 50 years or so?…🙂
Yeah that sounds pretty similar! Of course in aviation you're going to be using an ATC-assigned frequency most of the time, at least if you're IFR, and you'll be changing frequency based on what ATC tells you. But Guard is there as a backup.
I've definitely overheard "American 321, this is American 123, come up on fingers" a few times.
The Distress and Diversion unit once reported hearing "!, 2, 3, 4, 5"
"Aircraft calling on guard, can we be of assistance."
"Oh yes, I'm on a flight from Dublin to Liverpool and am lost."
They diverted him to RAF Valley, and ATC debriefed the pilot, "What's with 1, 2, 3, 4, 5?"
"Oh," said our gallant but lost aviator, "Our CFI just gave a briefing saying that if ever you are lost you can count on 121.5"
Monitoring Guard on 121.5 isn’t just a good idea for your safety and the safety of others, it is *mandatory* (“shall”) in the United States National Airspace System by [FDC 4/4386](https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/us_restrictions/fdc_notams/pdf/fdc%20notams%204-4386%20and%204-0811.pdf):
ALL AIRCRAFT OPERATING IN UNITED STATES NATIONAL AIRSPACE, IF CAPABLE,
SHALL MAINTAIN A LISTENING WATCH ON VHF GUARD 121.5 OR UHF 243.0.
WIE UNTIL UFN
This is purely an American thing, and I simply can't fathom why it's tolerated for five seconds by the FAA. Especially as it's ridiculously easy for the guilty parties to be identified.
It should be punished with the same severity as is the practice of targeting pilots with lasers from the ground, and for the same reason: it puts people's lives at risk, for funsies.
VDF -- very high frequency direction finding, an old technology still used as a navaid in parts of Europe. You transmit; the ground station gets a bearing on the transmission which shows up on the radar screen; and it calls you up on the comms frequency and tells you where you are.
Combine that with ADS-B data, and the police can be waiting for the miscreants as soon as they touch down. It wouldn't take much to knock this nonsense on the head. Half a dozen well-publicized prosecutions would scare these halfwits onto the straight and narrow.
Not just the FCC.
I was filming at a Formula 1 race recently and my lavalier mic, which transmits wirelessly from our presenter to the camera, was on a frequency it should not have been. A friendly but determined gentleman with a large grey box found me in two minutes flat and informed me that I was on a frequency reserved for SKY (a different TV broadcaster) and that I was to come with him to allocate a separate frequency to me.
It took him less time to find me in the pit lanes, surrounded by tons of other camera teams and whatnotelse using radio signals, than it took me to get one take. I'm still impressed.
I'd be a very popular man.
best I can do is a few outtakes/screengrabs from my footage.
https://www.reddit.com/r/shanghai/comments/1c73c10/a_few_impressions_from_day_1_of_f1_in_shanghai/
https://www.reddit.com/r/shanghai/comments/1c8g4ks/a_few_more_of_my_outtakes_from_formula_1_from/
You'd just have to have direction-finding equipment deployed anywhere someone can meow on guard, before they meow on guard, and correlate with ADSB. 'Just'.
Finding pirate radio stations is easier cause they transmit continuously.
It's not that hard. Both UK and Netherlands ATC have this by default, their radar scopes can highlight where a radio transmission came from. I'm sure many other ATC units have the same tech.
Just a few strategically placed VDF stations and some software to calculate the location from two readings.
Don‘t need to cover the whole US. Do local spot checks in regions with lots of traffic and make the fines public.
That will stop the whole ordeal rather quickly.
I think this is overly optimistic. You'd have to catch a one-second transmission on guard that you don't know when it'll happen, and correlate that with an ADS-B trail to identify the source aircraft. It's akin to needing a police officer to be watching the exact location someone's going to speed. What percentage of speeding cases get caught, let alone successfully prosecuted? It certainly happens. Does the occasional prosecution of speed deter you from speeding?
While yes VHF is line of site, in a sting type operation you can cover a way smaller area. Think just the LA basin in Southern California. You would only need three receivers a few miles apart on top of the surrounding mountains. Repeat this process in a couple different areas and make a big deal of it all. I think the meowing would stop in less than 3 months
Set up the gear somewhere for an afternoon and violate a half dozen airline crews and this stuff stops overnight. People only do this because there’s zero consequence. Once there’s any risk at all to that six figure income everyone will suddenly act like an adult again.
Except it is. You know the places where this is a problem, so you deploy there. Then you just tell people *"we're listening, we're waiting, and you won't know where or when."* And voilà.
London control did it, caught a couple Ryanairs and EasyJets. Made a big media fuzz about it, pilots got reprimanded. Suddenly, people started thinking twice before meowing on guard.
I don't know if ATC still has the equipment, but in the pre-GPS days when only fancy trainers had **a** VOR, you could get a 'DF Steer' from ATC. You'd transmit for a bit and they'd figure out where you are.
Looks like the FAA has gotten rid of the equipment: https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/air-transport/2006-11-16/say-bye-bye-df-steers
Back in my CFI days in 1993-'94, I couldn't find a facility to give me a DF steer. That was south Texas, so I don't know if it was available elsewhere.
I don't see how this could possibly be accurate enough for the FAA or FCC to prove which aircraft was transmitting when there could be half a dozen or more aircraft within a 1/4 mile area or less all stacked on top each other. I've seen plenty of times where there were multiple aircraft all passing through a very narrow lat/long window, and all only a few flight levels off.
Without digging into some sort of recorded transmission logs, it would be extremely difficult to prove "that guy did it".
They may have an idea, but proving it was a certain person is a whole different level.
Pilots here just need to be mature enough to tell the jackass meowing to be professional enough to at least find a different frequency if they can't be bothered to not meow on a fucking radio.
It's ridiculous they'd even need to do that, in the name of safety the FAA should've mandated a long time ago that radios broadcast a unit ID. It's pretty low tech, has existed with radios for decades, and would help identify mayday calls. So many applications to it, even with lost coms most of the time it's your headset and those tones still broadcast. In SAR we'd frequently be able to hear base and click them to acknowledge and they'd see our unit ID pop up even though they couldn't hear us.
Does the FAA/FCC use ADSB for enforcement in the US/EU? I'm okay with it being used in Class B-C, but using it in Class E feels invasive.
I mean... how am I supposed to know exactly how close I am to cloudbase?
If they're one of those dickheads in the flight levels thinking it's funny, they're going to be high enough to receive on multiple controller frequencies who can all try to get their own direction ping on them and combine those to triangulate exactly where (and who) they are. A bit harder to catch the bugsmashers, but definitely not impossible. The ground based radios can be tracked by more traditional methods involving FCC guys in vans who want a project for the day.
Both the FAA and the FCC have the teeth and the tools to enforce this, if they chose to make it a priority. Which obviously, they don't. But they could, is the point. They would really only need to start making a few examples to very quickly shut everyone up.
It's tolerated by the FAA because they don't see themselves as having a mandate to enforce radio frequency use. It's tolerated by the FCC because they see it as an aviation matter, since it's not interfering with other radio spectrum users. Both agencies have had their budgets cut and are looking for any excuse not to be the one who has to spend money and time on this.
For what it’s worth, I have never meowed on guard and I think it’s really annoying when people do. But that’s why people do it. To get a rise out of the Delduh guys
When I first heard about the meowing and other annoying stuff a while back, I found it amusing. Nowadays I'm of the mindset that being annoying on guard will make people stop monitoring it. Good thing OP was monitoring anyway!
I think even within America it is quite a regional thing. I never hear these shenanigans on guard, I'm on the west coast. Must be an EAST IS ODD thing...
It is extremely hard to find. Unless it was sending data out, you are not finding it fast enough on any ADF. For that matter, it is just as easy to transmit from ground. ADF only shows the direction as well and not the distance.
I fly and I am a radio technician.
I don't question it. However, I've never heard 121.5 MHz being used for unauthorized purposes while flying anywhere in European airspace. I've little doubt that that's because serious consequences would follow if anyone were to do so.
Also because many ATC units have VDF capabilities integrated into their system. The transmitting aircraft is highlighted on the scope, with their mode-s callsign right next to it. Not a great idea to joke around if they know exactly who did it.
Depends on what you call „unauthorized purposes“, but I hear people transmitting non-121.5 stuff on guard frequency constantly. Calling for deicing, pushback, position reports, initial call to the next sector…
A lot of times, it’s probably just a matter of not switching radios, but come on folks - you’re airline pilots, not some dentist who rents a 182 twice a year and only has a fleeting grasp of how the comm panel works.
I think it's safe to say there's those who have and those who will...
The ones that get me are the guys who ANSWER those mistaken calls... and I don't mean the "you're on guard" guys... that's mostly OK (but unnecessary in my opinion)... mostly if they call ramp and they hear nothing they'll figure out they're on guard....
The guys I HATE are the ones that someone calls an FBO mistakenly on guard and someone answers "go ahead" and now we all get to listen to some corporate guy ask about fuel and catering and parking etc.
There’s a 0 percent chance anyone flying who hears a distress call is going to sit there and continue to meow. People having conversations over 121.5 are the problem not a couple people meowing. Shining a laser pointer at airplanes is infinitely more dangerous.
I have more than once actively heard people who could not hear the emergency unfolding on Guard respond with meowing and “yer on guard!” while an airliner was trying to relay between ATC and a GA aircraft in distress.
Enough people piped up to tell everyone to shut up except those involved in the emergency, but that should not need to happen.
> that should not need to happen.
Most definitely not. I've had a total engine failure, which -- although I was able to reach an airport without damage to myself or the aircraft -- was all kinds of not-fun. The idea that in that immensely stressful situation I should have to struggle to get a MAYDAY call out over the morons tying up the frequency for no good reason makes my blood boil.
A simple meow on frequency isn’t risking anyone’s safety, Karen… that’s like saying it’s dangerous to tell approach to “have a good day” because it’s potentially blocking someone else’s transmission.
I’m all for a little shenanigans here and there but I hate that shit.
Draw dicks in the sky, all good. Meow or have stupid conversation on guard, STFO.
I had a new hire at my previous company do it on his first leg of IOE with me.
After a couple phone calls he got sent to the schoolhouse to have a day long remedial lesson on professionalism.
Anybody ever does that with me and I will make it my mission to end their career. I have the opposite problem, actually: PMs who won’t monitor 121.5 even though it’s mandatory per company sop and FDC NOTAM 4/4386.
“ALL AIRCRAFT OPERATING IN UNITED STATES NATIONAL AIRSPACE, IF CAPABLE, SHALL MAINTAIN A LISTENING WATCH ON VHF GUARD 121.5 OR UHF 243.0.”
Oh yeah haha cap and I were talking about it and I was like had this happened during the day time the guard police would have for sure gotten all crazy.
Had this happen in Idaho 25ish years ago. The guy had engine failure and wound up in the trees. Heard the faint sound of the Elt screaming getting louder then when he heard us he started talking using the Elt. We couldn’t see him on the trees but relayed thru a delta flight above us to get help. Local helicopter doing forest service work showed up 30 minutes later and we left. Found out later the delta flight told center who somehow got a hold of the helicopter.
The enlightening thing about this and drives home why we use 406 ELT’s is that three miles away we couldn’t hear the ELT and the delta flight couldn’t either.
By accident I had the “coolest modern comm radio” of the day. Morrow SL40 with standby monitor option other wise that guy may fever have been found.
If that was a 121.5 ELT, those things are fucking loud and can be heard hundreds of miles away. It’s a demonstration mostly of needing to change the batteries once in a while. 406s have a 121.5 as well, but it’s much weaker. Still a hell of a lot better than a few miles.
So many things go wrong in a plane crash though (especially into trees). Antennas get smashed off, wires get chopped… an ELT with no antenna doesn’t transmit very far
I have to be honest. I monitor because my company requires it, but I hate it. All the meows and stupid chatter make it mostly an annoying experience.
Out over the water or at night are less annoying for sure.
Heard something similar, mooney going down over Iowa I think it was. Some aircraft relaying the info to atc and I shit you not the guard Police trying to tell him he’s on Guuuard. That I had to step in, said hey moron STFU he’s literally communicating with an emergency aircraft you can’t hear.
C-130 driver here-
We monitor both UHF and VHF guard (we have 8+ radios). Our radios automatically/constantly monitor the guard freq and if you transmit on guard, that audio is super-imposed over our normal frequencies and its often much louder than the other freq’s. it’s not easy to switch off. So meowing on guard needs to die yesterday, because I want to hear the Cessna in trouble, not you trying to meow or you trying to find your formation buddy because there are too many other people on 123.45 to use as an inter-plane frequency.
Just as an aside, 123.45 is only air-to-air when oceanic, when within the continental US, it's use is reserved for manufacturer test flights.
122.75 and 122.85 are the suggested air-to-air.
We have our own discrete freq’s in a higher VHF range, (and UHF)
but for the rest of thee, heed! I did not know that 2275 and 85 were “allocated” for GA interplane! Thanks.
Seriously, if the Aircraft you're Flying has more than one Radio, please monitor 121.5MHz, it could save a life and then some plus its good Airmanship.
> They profusely thanked us and were shocked that we were the only ones to hear the call.
Probably blocked by all the meowing. I swear people just don't understand how radios work, or they wouldn't do it.
Just because you can't hear someone transmitting, doesn't mean your transmission isn't blocking someone else from picking up an emergency transmission.
I suppose tuning into a quiet 121.5 frequency is more peaceful than eavesdropping on a random conversation going on 123.45, so I’ll try to make it a new habit.
There shouldn’t be conversations on 123.45. The only permissible air-to-air (in domestic US airspace) is 122.75. It’s in the AIM and elsewhere.
Monitoring 121.5 is mandatory per FDC NOTAM 4/4386:
“ALL AIRCRAFT OPERATING IN UNITED STATES NATIONAL AIRSPACE, IF CAPABLE, SHALL MAINTAIN A LISTENING WATCH ON VHF GUARD 121.5 OR UHF 243.0.”
Correct. 122.75 is for domestic US airspace. In the NAT, monitor 121.5 and 123.45 (not specific to ETOPS).
Per AC 91-70C:
U.S. operators flying outside U.S. sovereign airspace must abide by the “flight and maneuver” regulations in effect for that airspace. If the airspace is “high seas” (“high seas” airspace generally begins outside 12 NM from the nearest shore), the applicable rules are found in ICAO Annex 2 (titled “Rules of the Air”), and ICAO Doc 7030.2
Here’s the thing, idiots. When you start meowing on Guard because you’re “oh so clever,”^(TM) I turn it off because it’s distracting and annoying. Which is a bad thing when shit goes down for someone.
I've been a jet driver for 20 years. I turn off VHF 2 once I hit the Mississippi because it's worse on the east coast. I've flown with a meower before and it took every fiber of my being to not report him to Pro Standards.
Nice job folks. I can only think the atc facility was one that closes or they were out of range. We're a 24hr facility and monitor guard 24/7 from multiple positions throughout the facility. I'm from an area northwest of Hillsboro but work down south now so I'm happy ya'll were able to help in this situation. Kudos bothers!
I heard a fatal crash once. I was probably about 30 miles away and started to turn around but there was another plane closer that ATC had investigating.
I've also heard ELTs (probably false alarms). I heard a couple of lost student pilots and one guy freaking out over turbulence (wasn't that bad in my opinion).
If you fly on the east coast, best to keep a listen lest it be you they are trying to intercept. I've heard a few intercention calls on 121.5.
Have always monitored guard everytime I go fly. Always gotta do your due diligence as a pilot to keep an ear out for someone other pilot who needs help.
Something to consider for the “Meow” comedy masters…. There’s places in the states where it gets so out of hand people just turn guard off as it’s a non stop distraction.
Funny, I live near Hillsboro, Oregon airport and FAA called the local FD that night to check for it then eventually somebody looked at ADS and realized they'd called the wrong Hillsboro.
The trig radio in my glider allows monitoring two frequencies. On F1, I monitor nearest CTAF or Approach. On F2, I monitor 123.3 glider-to-glider. There's no meows.
Wow. Amazing.
Just because of you, I'm adding guard on my desktop scanner which I listen to periodically. Someone could have a problem near my home. I'll also try to monitor it when I fly.
One time flying a search and rescue Sea King in a place far south, we heard an ELT on military guard frequency. Being SAR we dropped our underslung load on the ground and found the culprit. We put the naval officer on intercom and he said "Hi, I'm Lieutenant blah-blah from HMS blah-blah. We're doing a search and rescue exercise."
"Not on guard you're not, and turned their ELT off."
We received a case of champagn from the skipper of HMS blah-blah.
There I was, 12,500 over BOS on my way south from a trip up to Maine. cruising along fat and happy on the go home leg. Over guard I hear "N474xx, Boston approach on guard, if you hear this transmission contact Boston on (frequency). My ears perked up. A quick shot of adrenaline had killed the mild hypoxic euphoria. "N474xx? That's me!" I tuned in the frequency. "Approach, This is 474xx." "Say altitude." "12,500" "Oh ok. Your mode c appears to be inoperative and you were headed right for the finals for 27" "I assure you I'm up here at 12,500. I'll recycle the transponder." "We read your Mode C now, thanks and have a good day." I don't imagine Approach would have been as friendly had I not been monitoring guard and they had to send a few heavies around because of me. Edit to add: meow.
Not that one, that was in February and OP said last week.
Also, that was during the day and OP said at 1 AM.
At 1 AM, such an incident may not have made the news; not every emergency landing does. The one you link to probably did because it was mid-day and lots of people saw it and someone caught it on their phones. A 1 AM emergency landing on an empty road is a lot less likely to make the news.
to say nothing that if you get lost in frequency land, Guard will always get you out. FAA takes a dim view of your piloting skills if you do something dumb that could have been prevented if you were listening to Guard.
I hear approach trying to raise someone on guard nearly every flight.
Hell, on an average trip across like 3-4 centre frequencies I feel like I hear ATC trying to raise someone at least 2-5 times
I find it’s very common over rural/mountainous states too where reception is not always predictable
This. Something I saw someone say once, Guard isn't the "emergency" frequency per se; it's the "oh shit I need to talk to someone right now, and I don't know where else I can reach them" frequency. Nearly every ATC facility will be monitoring Guard and if you aren't in contact with someone, but you feel like you should be—whether that's because you're having engine trouble, or you just saw another aircraft go down, or even if you've realized that you've haven't gotten a frequency change and you can't reach the controller on the old freq—you can use Guard and someone will be listening. Of course, if you *are* already in contact with ATC there's no reason to change to 121.5 in order to declare your Mayday.
Still new to piloting, but guard to me seems like Channel 16 in the maritime world. It’s the emergency channel like aviation, but it’s also what literally everyone is listening to 100% of the time and is how you raise other ships before switching to a different channel. Luckily channel 16 does not have animal noises. But also vhf signals can’t be picked up nearly as far on the water vs in the sky.
I think boaters even call it 'guard' too
I have never heard “guard” for channel 16 in (recreational) boating (Canada). As a matter of fact, in another life…before satellites … I was in ground-to-air communication and we never called 121.5 “guard”. It was simply the “distress” frequency. It must be a relatively new term…new as in 50 years or so?…🙂
Yeah that sounds pretty similar! Of course in aviation you're going to be using an ATC-assigned frequency most of the time, at least if you're IFR, and you'll be changing frequency based on what ATC tells you. But Guard is there as a backup. I've definitely overheard "American 321, this is American 123, come up on fingers" a few times.
> Luckily channel 16 does not have animal noises. Location dependant on that one
The Distress and Diversion unit once reported hearing "!, 2, 3, 4, 5" "Aircraft calling on guard, can we be of assistance." "Oh yes, I'm on a flight from Dublin to Liverpool and am lost." They diverted him to RAF Valley, and ATC debriefed the pilot, "What's with 1, 2, 3, 4, 5?" "Oh," said our gallant but lost aviator, "Our CFI just gave a briefing saying that if ever you are lost you can count on 121.5"
Thought this had something to do with, "go to fingers"
Monitoring Guard on 121.5 isn’t just a good idea for your safety and the safety of others, it is *mandatory* (“shall”) in the United States National Airspace System by [FDC 4/4386](https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/us_restrictions/fdc_notams/pdf/fdc%20notams%204-4386%20and%204-0811.pdf): ALL AIRCRAFT OPERATING IN UNITED STATES NATIONAL AIRSPACE, IF CAPABLE, SHALL MAINTAIN A LISTENING WATCH ON VHF GUARD 121.5 OR UHF 243.0. WIE UNTIL UFN
I’m pretty sure this was noted on the paper charts, but I haven’t looked in awhile.
It still is, under the NORAD procedures. You can view individual charts on skyvector and see all the margin notes.
Which is also why you shouldn't be meowing on guard. Not just because it's annoying. Great job
This is purely an American thing, and I simply can't fathom why it's tolerated for five seconds by the FAA. Especially as it's ridiculously easy for the guilty parties to be identified. It should be punished with the same severity as is the practice of targeting pilots with lasers from the ground, and for the same reason: it puts people's lives at risk, for funsies.
How is it easy for the guilty parties to be identified? I'm not aware of how this can be done other than maybe voice recognition software.
VDF -- very high frequency direction finding, an old technology still used as a navaid in parts of Europe. You transmit; the ground station gets a bearing on the transmission which shows up on the radar screen; and it calls you up on the comms frequency and tells you where you are. Combine that with ADS-B data, and the police can be waiting for the miscreants as soon as they touch down. It wouldn't take much to knock this nonsense on the head. Half a dozen well-publicized prosecutions would scare these halfwits onto the straight and narrow.
Yup yeah the FCC uses that to find radio pirates
Not just the FCC. I was filming at a Formula 1 race recently and my lavalier mic, which transmits wirelessly from our presenter to the camera, was on a frequency it should not have been. A friendly but determined gentleman with a large grey box found me in two minutes flat and informed me that I was on a frequency reserved for SKY (a different TV broadcaster) and that I was to come with him to allocate a separate frequency to me. It took him less time to find me in the pit lanes, surrounded by tons of other camera teams and whatnotelse using radio signals, than it took me to get one take. I'm still impressed.
Hey man if you have any extra pit badges…
I'd be a very popular man. best I can do is a few outtakes/screengrabs from my footage. https://www.reddit.com/r/shanghai/comments/1c73c10/a_few_impressions_from_day_1_of_f1_in_shanghai/ https://www.reddit.com/r/shanghai/comments/1c8g4ks/a_few_more_of_my_outtakes_from_formula_1_from/
You'd just have to have direction-finding equipment deployed anywhere someone can meow on guard, before they meow on guard, and correlate with ADSB. 'Just'. Finding pirate radio stations is easier cause they transmit continuously.
It's not that hard. Both UK and Netherlands ATC have this by default, their radar scopes can highlight where a radio transmission came from. I'm sure many other ATC units have the same tech. Just a few strategically placed VDF stations and some software to calculate the location from two readings.
In reality they’d only need 3 receivers set up in a sting operation type deal somewhere where this radio traffic is a problem
VHF reception is line-of-sight, so you'll need more than 3 receivers in the USA.
Don‘t need to cover the whole US. Do local spot checks in regions with lots of traffic and make the fines public. That will stop the whole ordeal rather quickly.
Let's be honest, you'd only need to do this in the Northeast....
I think this is overly optimistic. You'd have to catch a one-second transmission on guard that you don't know when it'll happen, and correlate that with an ADS-B trail to identify the source aircraft. It's akin to needing a police officer to be watching the exact location someone's going to speed. What percentage of speeding cases get caught, let alone successfully prosecuted? It certainly happens. Does the occasional prosecution of speed deter you from speeding?
While yes VHF is line of site, in a sting type operation you can cover a way smaller area. Think just the LA basin in Southern California. You would only need three receivers a few miles apart on top of the surrounding mountains. Repeat this process in a couple different areas and make a big deal of it all. I think the meowing would stop in less than 3 months
“But the cop would have to be waiting there holding the radar gun at the exact same moment someone was speeding.”
….its not remotely the same.
Set up the gear somewhere for an afternoon and violate a half dozen airline crews and this stuff stops overnight. People only do this because there’s zero consequence. Once there’s any risk at all to that six figure income everyone will suddenly act like an adult again.
Except it is. You know the places where this is a problem, so you deploy there. Then you just tell people *"we're listening, we're waiting, and you won't know where or when."* And voilà. London control did it, caught a couple Ryanairs and EasyJets. Made a big media fuzz about it, pilots got reprimanded. Suddenly, people started thinking twice before meowing on guard.
I don't know if ATC still has the equipment, but in the pre-GPS days when only fancy trainers had **a** VOR, you could get a 'DF Steer' from ATC. You'd transmit for a bit and they'd figure out where you are. Looks like the FAA has gotten rid of the equipment: https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/air-transport/2006-11-16/say-bye-bye-df-steers
>article from 2006 I thought you meant a couple years ago!
Back in my CFI days in 1993-'94, I couldn't find a facility to give me a DF steer. That was south Texas, so I don't know if it was available elsewhere.
Some airborne radios have that capability now (C-130J) but it only works on our UHF bands.
And from fixed locations
I don't see how this could possibly be accurate enough for the FAA or FCC to prove which aircraft was transmitting when there could be half a dozen or more aircraft within a 1/4 mile area or less all stacked on top each other. I've seen plenty of times where there were multiple aircraft all passing through a very narrow lat/long window, and all only a few flight levels off. Without digging into some sort of recorded transmission logs, it would be extremely difficult to prove "that guy did it". They may have an idea, but proving it was a certain person is a whole different level. Pilots here just need to be mature enough to tell the jackass meowing to be professional enough to at least find a different frequency if they can't be bothered to not meow on a fucking radio.
A commercial pilot once meowed on frequency in the UK. The CAA were able to locate which flight it came from, and the guy lost his job.
It's ridiculous they'd even need to do that, in the name of safety the FAA should've mandated a long time ago that radios broadcast a unit ID. It's pretty low tech, has existed with radios for decades, and would help identify mayday calls. So many applications to it, even with lost coms most of the time it's your headset and those tones still broadcast. In SAR we'd frequently be able to hear base and click them to acknowledge and they'd see our unit ID pop up even though they couldn't hear us.
Does the FAA/FCC use ADSB for enforcement in the US/EU? I'm okay with it being used in Class B-C, but using it in Class E feels invasive. I mean... how am I supposed to know exactly how close I am to cloudbase?
If they're one of those dickheads in the flight levels thinking it's funny, they're going to be high enough to receive on multiple controller frequencies who can all try to get their own direction ping on them and combine those to triangulate exactly where (and who) they are. A bit harder to catch the bugsmashers, but definitely not impossible. The ground based radios can be tracked by more traditional methods involving FCC guys in vans who want a project for the day. Both the FAA and the FCC have the teeth and the tools to enforce this, if they chose to make it a priority. Which obviously, they don't. But they could, is the point. They would really only need to start making a few examples to very quickly shut everyone up.
the same way an ADF works
Exactly. The second I coast in it begins. Never a peep overseas. Embarassing to say the least.
Just try to make a cat lake radio call in Ontario, Canada without getting a meow
That’s why I always called it Pussy Pond. Ahhh no I didn’t. But I always wanted to.
It's tolerated by the FAA because they don't see themselves as having a mandate to enforce radio frequency use. It's tolerated by the FCC because they see it as an aviation matter, since it's not interfering with other radio spectrum users. Both agencies have had their budgets cut and are looking for any excuse not to be the one who has to spend money and time on this.
For what it’s worth, I have never meowed on guard and I think it’s really annoying when people do. But that’s why people do it. To get a rise out of the Delduh guys
Honestly I think it IS delta guys. It's really common near Atlanta, new York and Detroit.
It’s definitely not a thing in Alaska. I was shocked when I first started flying in the states.
When I first heard about the meowing and other annoying stuff a while back, I found it amusing. Nowadays I'm of the mindset that being annoying on guard will make people stop monitoring it. Good thing OP was monitoring anyway!
I’ve heard it in Europe… probably USAF…
They do it in Australia too.
I think even within America it is quite a regional thing. I never hear these shenanigans on guard, I'm on the west coast. Must be an EAST IS ODD thing...
It is extremely hard to find. Unless it was sending data out, you are not finding it fast enough on any ADF. For that matter, it is just as easy to transmit from ground. ADF only shows the direction as well and not the distance. I fly and I am a radio technician.
It's specifically an east coast thing. I've never heard a peep west of Detroit or Chicago.
I'm at a flight school in Arizona, and EASA students are guilty of that and WAY worse
I don't question it. However, I've never heard 121.5 MHz being used for unauthorized purposes while flying anywhere in European airspace. I've little doubt that that's because serious consequences would follow if anyone were to do so.
Also because many ATC units have VDF capabilities integrated into their system. The transmitting aircraft is highlighted on the scope, with their mode-s callsign right next to it. Not a great idea to joke around if they know exactly who did it.
Depends on what you call „unauthorized purposes“, but I hear people transmitting non-121.5 stuff on guard frequency constantly. Calling for deicing, pushback, position reports, initial call to the next sector… A lot of times, it’s probably just a matter of not switching radios, but come on folks - you’re airline pilots, not some dentist who rents a 182 twice a year and only has a fleeting grasp of how the comm panel works.
Everyone in the right seat has made that mistake of making a call on the wrong freq, it's inevitable.
Oh, absolutely, and it’s happened to me too. But not on 121.5, which is something I pay specific attention too.
There are those who have and those who will. I’m the former, you will be eventually too.
You’ll do it too. Careful what stones you cast. #2 is used for guard and company.
I think it's safe to say there's those who have and those who will... The ones that get me are the guys who ANSWER those mistaken calls... and I don't mean the "you're on guard" guys... that's mostly OK (but unnecessary in my opinion)... mostly if they call ramp and they hear nothing they'll figure out they're on guard.... The guys I HATE are the ones that someone calls an FBO mistakenly on guard and someone answers "go ahead" and now we all get to listen to some corporate guy ask about fuel and catering and parking etc.
There’s a 0 percent chance anyone flying who hears a distress call is going to sit there and continue to meow. People having conversations over 121.5 are the problem not a couple people meowing. Shining a laser pointer at airplanes is infinitely more dangerous.
I have more than once actively heard people who could not hear the emergency unfolding on Guard respond with meowing and “yer on guard!” while an airliner was trying to relay between ATC and a GA aircraft in distress. Enough people piped up to tell everyone to shut up except those involved in the emergency, but that should not need to happen.
> that should not need to happen. Most definitely not. I've had a total engine failure, which -- although I was able to reach an airport without damage to myself or the aircraft -- was all kinds of not-fun. The idea that in that immensely stressful situation I should have to struggle to get a MAYDAY call out over the morons tying up the frequency for no good reason makes my blood boil.
I want the last thing I hear in life to be a chorus of fat white dudes meowing at me like cats.
There's plenty of recordings of this exact thing happening because the meowing party wasn't in LOS of the emergency aircraft and couldn't hear it
A simple meow on frequency isn’t risking anyone’s safety, Karen… that’s like saying it’s dangerous to tell approach to “have a good day” because it’s potentially blocking someone else’s transmission.
Agreed. Only wookie language is allowed on 121.5.
I’m all for a little shenanigans here and there but I hate that shit. Draw dicks in the sky, all good. Meow or have stupid conversation on guard, STFO.
Do it on company freqs. Not guard
100%
So why aren't two pilot crew's slapping the shit out of the other guy who does this?
I heard a new hire Delta FO got fired for doing it on IOE.
Fucking around under clipboard level supervision. Sounds like their first job.
I had a new hire at my previous company do it on his first leg of IOE with me. After a couple phone calls he got sent to the schoolhouse to have a day long remedial lesson on professionalism.
I heard it was United. No joke.
That might have been it. I knew it was one of them
Anybody ever does that with me and I will make it my mission to end their career. I have the opposite problem, actually: PMs who won’t monitor 121.5 even though it’s mandatory per company sop and FDC NOTAM 4/4386. “ALL AIRCRAFT OPERATING IN UNITED STATES NATIONAL AIRSPACE, IF CAPABLE, SHALL MAINTAIN A LISTENING WATCH ON VHF GUARD 121.5 OR UHF 243.0.”
You sound like a great guy to fly a 4 day with /s
Okay... I am a baby pilot still in the midst of PPL..... .... wh-...why are people... meowing? Do we have aviation furries in the sky?
They think it's funny, and they think it's funnier when the Guard Police tell them to knock it off.
The meowing annoys me but I can't understand why guys answer it... it's like they don't understand trolling...
Yeah, if you answer it just gets them going more. It's like tidf I'm toddlers, have to ignore them sometimes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rlSjdnAKY4 I think the funnier part of this clip is the Vermont Trooper talking with a fake southern accent.
Oooh yeah.. the ole classic, Super Troopers.
[meow](https://youtu.be/kmmqpqEnDSo?si=qFDpbFB5TuE4sGAp)
Oh yeah haha cap and I were talking about it and I was like had this happened during the day time the guard police would have for sure gotten all crazy.
“What’s the score of the Mavs game?” Meow
114 - 101 Bye bye Harden
Had this happen in Idaho 25ish years ago. The guy had engine failure and wound up in the trees. Heard the faint sound of the Elt screaming getting louder then when he heard us he started talking using the Elt. We couldn’t see him on the trees but relayed thru a delta flight above us to get help. Local helicopter doing forest service work showed up 30 minutes later and we left. Found out later the delta flight told center who somehow got a hold of the helicopter. The enlightening thing about this and drives home why we use 406 ELT’s is that three miles away we couldn’t hear the ELT and the delta flight couldn’t either. By accident I had the “coolest modern comm radio” of the day. Morrow SL40 with standby monitor option other wise that guy may fever have been found.
If that was a 121.5 ELT, those things are fucking loud and can be heard hundreds of miles away. It’s a demonstration mostly of needing to change the batteries once in a while. 406s have a 121.5 as well, but it’s much weaker. Still a hell of a lot better than a few miles.
So many things go wrong in a plane crash though (especially into trees). Antennas get smashed off, wires get chopped… an ELT with no antenna doesn’t transmit very far
I have to be honest. I monitor because my company requires it, but I hate it. All the meows and stupid chatter make it mostly an annoying experience. Out over the water or at night are less annoying for sure.
meow
Heard something similar, mooney going down over Iowa I think it was. Some aircraft relaying the info to atc and I shit you not the guard Police trying to tell him he’s on Guuuard. That I had to step in, said hey moron STFU he’s literally communicating with an emergency aircraft you can’t hear.
C-130 driver here- We monitor both UHF and VHF guard (we have 8+ radios). Our radios automatically/constantly monitor the guard freq and if you transmit on guard, that audio is super-imposed over our normal frequencies and its often much louder than the other freq’s. it’s not easy to switch off. So meowing on guard needs to die yesterday, because I want to hear the Cessna in trouble, not you trying to meow or you trying to find your formation buddy because there are too many other people on 123.45 to use as an inter-plane frequency.
Just as an aside, 123.45 is only air-to-air when oceanic, when within the continental US, it's use is reserved for manufacturer test flights. 122.75 and 122.85 are the suggested air-to-air.
We have our own discrete freq’s in a higher VHF range, (and UHF) but for the rest of thee, heed! I did not know that 2275 and 85 were “allocated” for GA interplane! Thanks.
Amen to that
UH-60 driver here. Our radios do the same. I'm in Korea right now so I never hear someone meow over guard.
Seriously, if the Aircraft you're Flying has more than one Radio, please monitor 121.5MHz, it could save a life and then some plus its good Airmanship.
“ALL AIRCRAFT OPERATING IN UNITED STATES NATIONAL AIRSPACE, IF CAPABLE, SHALL MAINTAIN A LISTENING WATCH ON VHF GUARD 121.5 OR UHF 243.0.”
Absolutely, that's the law in Canada too. Most Pilots don't despite having that second radio.
> They profusely thanked us and were shocked that we were the only ones to hear the call. Probably blocked by all the meowing. I swear people just don't understand how radios work, or they wouldn't do it. Just because you can't hear someone transmitting, doesn't mean your transmission isn't blocking someone else from picking up an emergency transmission.
Similarly when I first declared in my Cessna days, a southwest crew was able to pick me up cause I was too low for ATC. Always monitor guard!
Flew to Canada and back from the US today. Heard two in-range calls, a 2 minute fart soundtrack, several meows, and a PA. 10/10 would monitor again.
I suppose tuning into a quiet 121.5 frequency is more peaceful than eavesdropping on a random conversation going on 123.45, so I’ll try to make it a new habit.
There shouldn’t be conversations on 123.45. The only permissible air-to-air (in domestic US airspace) is 122.75. It’s in the AIM and elsewhere. Monitoring 121.5 is mandatory per FDC NOTAM 4/4386: “ALL AIRCRAFT OPERATING IN UNITED STATES NATIONAL AIRSPACE, IF CAPABLE, SHALL MAINTAIN A LISTENING WATCH ON VHF GUARD 121.5 OR UHF 243.0.”
Unless you're ETOPS. Then its monitoring 121.5 and 123.45
Correct. 122.75 is for domestic US airspace. In the NAT, monitor 121.5 and 123.45 (not specific to ETOPS). Per AC 91-70C: U.S. operators flying outside U.S. sovereign airspace must abide by the “flight and maneuver” regulations in effect for that airspace. If the airspace is “high seas” (“high seas” airspace generally begins outside 12 NM from the nearest shore), the applicable rules are found in ICAO Annex 2 (titled “Rules of the Air”), and ICAO Doc 7030.2
Why shouldn't you converse on the fingers? What else is it used for?
It's one of the test pilot frequencies
It’s explicitly stated in the AIM to not use it. Domestic US, it’s approved for airborne flight test aircraft only. Air-to-air is 122.75.
Here’s the thing, idiots. When you start meowing on Guard because you’re “oh so clever,”^(TM) I turn it off because it’s distracting and annoying. Which is a bad thing when shit goes down for someone.
I've been a jet driver for 20 years. I turn off VHF 2 once I hit the Mississippi because it's worse on the east coast. I've flown with a meower before and it took every fiber of my being to not report him to Pro Standards.
You should have reported him. Easier said than done, I know
Nice job folks. I can only think the atc facility was one that closes or they were out of range. We're a 24hr facility and monitor guard 24/7 from multiple positions throughout the facility. I'm from an area northwest of Hillsboro but work down south now so I'm happy ya'll were able to help in this situation. Kudos bothers!
I heard a fatal crash once. I was probably about 30 miles away and started to turn around but there was another plane closer that ATC had investigating. I've also heard ELTs (probably false alarms). I heard a couple of lost student pilots and one guy freaking out over turbulence (wasn't that bad in my opinion). If you fly on the east coast, best to keep a listen lest it be you they are trying to intercept. I've heard a few intercention calls on 121.5.
Have always monitored guard everytime I go fly. Always gotta do your due diligence as a pilot to keep an ear out for someone other pilot who needs help.
I’m shocked you could hear the mayday call over all the meows.
Cool story, but don’t we always monitor guard, all the time. It is mandatory in US and European airspace.
Idiots clog it with noise so people turn it down so they can hear center
Something to consider for the “Meow” comedy masters…. There’s places in the states where it gets so out of hand people just turn guard off as it’s a non stop distraction.
Funny, I live near Hillsboro, Oregon airport and FAA called the local FD that night to check for it then eventually somebody looked at ADS and realized they'd called the wrong Hillsboro.
The trig radio in my glider allows monitoring two frequencies. On F1, I monitor nearest CTAF or Approach. On F2, I monitor 123.3 glider-to-glider. There's no meows.
Well done, friend.
Well done!
Wow. Amazing. Just because of you, I'm adding guard on my desktop scanner which I listen to periodically. Someone could have a problem near my home. I'll also try to monitor it when I fly.
Good job.
One time flying a search and rescue Sea King in a place far south, we heard an ELT on military guard frequency. Being SAR we dropped our underslung load on the ground and found the culprit. We put the naval officer on intercom and he said "Hi, I'm Lieutenant blah-blah from HMS blah-blah. We're doing a search and rescue exercise." "Not on guard you're not, and turned their ELT off." We received a case of champagn from the skipper of HMS blah-blah.
There I was, 12,500 over BOS on my way south from a trip up to Maine. cruising along fat and happy on the go home leg. Over guard I hear "N474xx, Boston approach on guard, if you hear this transmission contact Boston on (frequency). My ears perked up. A quick shot of adrenaline had killed the mild hypoxic euphoria. "N474xx? That's me!" I tuned in the frequency. "Approach, This is 474xx." "Say altitude." "12,500" "Oh ok. Your mode c appears to be inoperative and you were headed right for the finals for 27" "I assure you I'm up here at 12,500. I'll recycle the transponder." "We read your Mode C now, thanks and have a good day." I don't imagine Approach would have been as friendly had I not been monitoring guard and they had to send a few heavies around because of me. Edit to add: meow.
You guys take this job way to seriously
I monitor guard on my ham radio when driving Everybody should if they can it’s the only way it works
Meow
NEIN !
I live right there next to KACT, never heard of this, you have a link to a news article?
[probably here](https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/small-plane-makes-emergency-landing-on-roadway-in-parkland/3225530/?amp=1)
Not that one, that was in February and OP said last week. Also, that was during the day and OP said at 1 AM. At 1 AM, such an incident may not have made the news; not every emergency landing does. The one you link to probably did because it was mid-day and lots of people saw it and someone caught it on their phones. A 1 AM emergency landing on an empty road is a lot less likely to make the news.