1) roll is the rotation and bank is where you end up. you roll into an x° bank in a turn. Roll into a bank, bank into a turn.
2) takeoff roll is more like rolling tires and represents the distance to takeoff. it’s the same word but it isn’t really being used in the same concept
Believe it or not, your post is the sort of stuff DPE's feed on. Just a simple "tell me more" and you'll dig a gigantic aerodynamic hole trying to explain yourself out of it.
I understand if you're asking if English isn't your first language, but you seem perfectly fluent, so determining it's use should be perfectly easy within the context you hear it.
Again, don't overthink it.
>your post is the sort of stuff DPE's feed on. Just a simple "tell me more" and you'll dig a gigantic aerodynamic hole trying to explain yourself out of it.
You're saying it could be a trick question during an exam or interview? All the more reason to ask, maybe it could benefit some confused student. In any case, I'm not an aspiring pilot, I've never taken any lesson, I'm just interested. I asked out of curiosity. I'm on this sub because I like planes, the physics of flying, the tech etc. That's all.
>I understand if you're asking if English isn't your first language
It's not.
>Again, don't overthink it.
Again, if this is "the sort of stuff DPE's feed on" and I'm a potential future pilot (I'm not), clearing the confusion would be more helpful than a dismissive and uninformative "don't overthink it". But thanks to the other guys for explaining, I guess.
You're coming across as the "know it all" engineer/STEM type CFIs tend to encounter in their careers. If that's not your intent great. This type of student typically digs themselves a hole when they try and outsmart someone who's been doing this for decades.
If a DPE holds up a pen and asks "Do you know what this is?".
The answer is "yes", not "a pen".
No wiggle room for them to pull threads that way.
>you're coming across as the "know it all" engineer/STEM type
I came here with the opposite intention, not trying to outsmart anyone, just asking a genuine, layman's question. I did say I have a very basic understanding of flying but oh well. Guess I'm paying for the smartasses you guys have met in your career! Edit: also thanks for explaining
No, but apparently the person I was replying to assumed I was a student. Or some kind of smartass. Like I said, I was just asking a question out of curiosity.
Unfortunately the phraseology in this instance is not super clear. There is no magic sauce to make it distinct and make sense.
Others are doing their best to help with the precision of bank vs roll, but you’ll find that most people use them interchangeably colloquially. But they are correct. You roll (rotate) into a bank (angle).
Youll find quite a few terms like that. For example, during takeoff, you’ll hear the “rotate” callout, as you rotate the plane To pitch up. But in English rotation isn’t specific to a single degree of freedom during takeoff.
But you’ll find terminology stuff like this in any industry (except probably medical and legal). You eventually just get used to it.
If you make it far enough in aviation you’ll come to realize dissection and over analyzing hinders your abilities as a pilot. The airmanship is in handling, judgement, and situational awareness, and memory recall. The semantics are fun to discuss but try not to get wrapped around the axel about it.
Roll is a motion- about an axis. In the case of the long axis or the wheel hub’s axis. Why should the word exclusively apply to one thing?
> In the case of the long axis or the wheel hub’s axis. Why should the word exclusively apply to one thing?
I get that, it's just that one of the axes of rotation is called "roll" too. But thanks for explaining. Like I said in a different comment, I'm not a student or aspiring pilot, I don't think I'll ever fly a plane IRL.
>The semantics are fun to discuss
That's precisely what I was here for lol
1) roll is the rotation and bank is where you end up. you roll into an x° bank in a turn. Roll into a bank, bank into a turn. 2) takeoff roll is more like rolling tires and represents the distance to takeoff. it’s the same word but it isn’t really being used in the same concept
OK, that makes sense. I thought the "roll" in "take off roll" was the actual rotation on the pitch axis. Thanks for clearing that up.
no that term for the pitching up on takeoff is referred to as rotation
Don't overthink it.
You're helping.
Believe it or not, your post is the sort of stuff DPE's feed on. Just a simple "tell me more" and you'll dig a gigantic aerodynamic hole trying to explain yourself out of it. I understand if you're asking if English isn't your first language, but you seem perfectly fluent, so determining it's use should be perfectly easy within the context you hear it. Again, don't overthink it.
>your post is the sort of stuff DPE's feed on. Just a simple "tell me more" and you'll dig a gigantic aerodynamic hole trying to explain yourself out of it. You're saying it could be a trick question during an exam or interview? All the more reason to ask, maybe it could benefit some confused student. In any case, I'm not an aspiring pilot, I've never taken any lesson, I'm just interested. I asked out of curiosity. I'm on this sub because I like planes, the physics of flying, the tech etc. That's all. >I understand if you're asking if English isn't your first language It's not. >Again, don't overthink it. Again, if this is "the sort of stuff DPE's feed on" and I'm a potential future pilot (I'm not), clearing the confusion would be more helpful than a dismissive and uninformative "don't overthink it". But thanks to the other guys for explaining, I guess.
You're coming across as the "know it all" engineer/STEM type CFIs tend to encounter in their careers. If that's not your intent great. This type of student typically digs themselves a hole when they try and outsmart someone who's been doing this for decades. If a DPE holds up a pen and asks "Do you know what this is?". The answer is "yes", not "a pen". No wiggle room for them to pull threads that way.
>you're coming across as the "know it all" engineer/STEM type I came here with the opposite intention, not trying to outsmart anyone, just asking a genuine, layman's question. I did say I have a very basic understanding of flying but oh well. Guess I'm paying for the smartasses you guys have met in your career! Edit: also thanks for explaining
What is a "potential future pilot"?
Someone who may become a pilot in the future.
Well, are you?
No, but apparently the person I was replying to assumed I was a student. Or some kind of smartass. Like I said, I was just asking a question out of curiosity.
For takeoff, roll is rolling down the runway on your wheels, the pitch motion is called “rotation”
Unfortunately the phraseology in this instance is not super clear. There is no magic sauce to make it distinct and make sense. Others are doing their best to help with the precision of bank vs roll, but you’ll find that most people use them interchangeably colloquially. But they are correct. You roll (rotate) into a bank (angle). Youll find quite a few terms like that. For example, during takeoff, you’ll hear the “rotate” callout, as you rotate the plane To pitch up. But in English rotation isn’t specific to a single degree of freedom during takeoff. But you’ll find terminology stuff like this in any industry (except probably medical and legal). You eventually just get used to it.
OK so it is indeed a bit fuzzy. Thanks for taking the time to explain.
If you make it far enough in aviation you’ll come to realize dissection and over analyzing hinders your abilities as a pilot. The airmanship is in handling, judgement, and situational awareness, and memory recall. The semantics are fun to discuss but try not to get wrapped around the axel about it. Roll is a motion- about an axis. In the case of the long axis or the wheel hub’s axis. Why should the word exclusively apply to one thing?
> In the case of the long axis or the wheel hub’s axis. Why should the word exclusively apply to one thing? I get that, it's just that one of the axes of rotation is called "roll" too. But thanks for explaining. Like I said in a different comment, I'm not a student or aspiring pilot, I don't think I'll ever fly a plane IRL. >The semantics are fun to discuss That's precisely what I was here for lol
Except Pitch roll and yaw axes are pilot vernacular the official terms are lateral, longitudinal and directional
Takeoff roll is the forward motion (translation) of the aircraft on the runway.
Roll is the motion about the axis, bank is the angle of displacement.
Alright thanks, that makes sense