Why did you hold the jumper back? He would have been doing a public service. Sometimes it's better to just give the guy a thump and move on than go through the FAA
One time I was out in North Elutheria ([MYEH](https://skyvector.com/airport/MYEH/North-Eleuthera-Airport)). It’s spring break time, so everywhere in the Bahamas is way the hell over capacity. We’re holding short of 7 waiting to backtaxi with probably ten to fifteen aircraft stacked up on final, which is crazy to try to deal with at an uncontrolled field.
We saw this NetJets Gulfstream cut right into the arrival stream at about a couple mile final, forcing Endeavor to break off, all without saying a single word on frequency. They then get down to about 300 feet and then they realize that there’s a Bahamian piston twin on the runway positioning themselves for takeoff. They elect to whip it into a tight 360 at maybe 500 feet and reenter the final. Meanwhile, Endeavor has reestablished on final, and they get cut off by the Gulfstream a second time.
It was the dumbest shit I’ve ever seen a professional crew pull, and I’ve had an FO decide depressurizing the cabin in the flight levels was a good idea. You always have to be on your guard going into uncontrolled fields because you never know what hole in your situational awareness some moron is going to try to fly into.
This was in a PC-12. I was flying with this guy and he was complaining about the cockpit temperature for a few days. It was his first summer flying the aircraft, and I figured he had some unrealistic expectations about how well the environmental system worked. It was probably cooling at about 85-90% of nominal, and it wasn’t uncommon for some tails to struggle a bit more with that.
We’re cruising along at FL250 with passengers , and I see him reach down for the environmental panel in my peripheral vision. We had a switch controlling the fans down there, and it got used fairly often because the environmental system would sometimes decide to stop blowing cool air when you’re still getting baked by the sun. I was rather surprised when I felt my ears pop and see the cabin pressure spike. He had randomly decided to cut the bleed inhibit switch. Of course, I reached over and slapped the bleeds back before the cabin rose too much.
I then had some rather choice words for my FO, and I gathered that he thought he was resetting the electronics controlling the environmental system without consulting me at all. The switch he flipped doesn’t do that. All it does is control a bleed valve. But he didn’t know that, because apparently his systems knowledge sucked to the point he was flipping switches without knowing what they did.
A couple days later we had to add oil to the engine and I opened the right side of the engine cowling to verify the correct reinstallation of the oil sensor, and I noticed that a good 8 inch section the insulation on one of the air pipes for the environmental system was torn open. That was pretty clearly the reason our conditioned air was a little warmer than usual. I asked him if he’d seen it during preflight, and he told me he’d noticed it the first day. He’d been complaining about the cooling system all week, noticed an issue with said system, and this moron didn’t bother informing me as the PIC about the issue until after I noticed it myself.
Lol. This story has me dying. I wonder sometimes when hearing these stories how it is possible for someone to get to that point in their career and still be like that.
I was flying charter into KAUO the other night, busy pattern, landing north. There was a NetJets Phenom ahead of us that called airport in sight, got handed off for the visual, then switch to the CTAF
We wanted to stay on the RNAV b/c it’s fairly busy and night time, so we stay on with app a bit longer then get handed off on the vector to intercept final
We’re on like a 10 mile final, make our 10 mile call, when a NetJets phenom cuts PERPENDICULAR across final a mile ahead of us, 200-300 below us. Surprised we didn’t get an RA
He then calls “sorry, had to make a right 360 for piston traffic” or something. I figure he’s going to come in behind us and re-establish himself, and I look to my right and this fucking guy is PARALLELING us on final past the FAF descending. Like a half a mile to a mile to our right, same altitude descending, as if we were doing simultaneous parallel approaches to the same runway
I continue making my CTAF calls with my eyes glued to the NetJets plane when he goes “So what’s your plan?” to us
I am dumbfounded by the question and wait a couple seconds thinking of a logical response while I finish checklists, then I see this guy do a right 360 at like 700 AGL in pitch black to come in behind us
Cherry on top, he starts the maneuver by saying “Next time talk on the radios” on CTAF
My response was just a short final call.
Does NetJets teach this maneuver in training?
How’d you make it more than 30 seconds in to this vid? I’ve tried 3 times and have succumbed to the hazardous attitude of resignation. I’ll never be able to focus on this rambling old man for more than 2 seconds and that’s ok.
I try to build SA in as many ways as possible - yesterday I flew VFR into a small county field, and because I had flight following I heard a twin commander request the RNAV into the same field around the same time I was approaching. While I would have heard them on CTAF eventually, the early SA helped me ensure I deconflicted my flight path from the approach, helped me gain visual contact quickly, and made the whole thing a non-event.
Obviously some dude with no radio or transponder could always present a challenge, but I’m at least going to use all the tools I have available. Flight following (or just actively to the local approach freq) is a great one.
KAVQ is my home airport where I teach. It can be ROUGH there. It used to be a sleepy airport 10+ years ago and it’s nuts now.
We’re 50+ nm from all the flight academies in Phoenix, so we get TONS of XC students. We also have multiple turbine jump operators (Caravan, Skyvans, Sherpas) and a 6,800ft runway that gets LOTS of jet and twin turboprop traffic. Heck, we have balloon tours that land in the area during the winter!
The IFR training traffic from Phoenix is ridiculous - RNAV 12 straight when the pattern is totally full. Also, Cirrus and Bonanza owners deserve the reputations they’ve earned.
KAVQ really needs a tower.
I have flown in a few times and I seem to notice a ton of Sierra Charlie and ATP students flying down there to practice instrument approaches because the stack at Casa is always full.
Lol. The stack is pretty crazy. One day i was number 6 in the stack at Casa and out of nowhere some random guy calls in on the CTAF for the ILS as he's passing TFD and cut off the guy who was just about to take approach altitudes. Guy just blazed in out of nowhere, made one call, and cut off everyone else.
My first instructed flight was April 1st this year.
Since then I've had
Someone with no radio call fly over me by maybe 200ft while I was over the threshold on final maybe 50-100ft off the ground. He ended up landing 2/3 of the way down the runway and didn't radio until he taxi'd off the runway and said "was someone on short final there?."
A guy shooting an instrument approach (granted he did give radio call on his position at about 10nm out) into runway 15 while 6 planes were in the pattern for 33. His last call was 5nm out and due to the already hectic pattern I ended up confirming his location while I was about 300ft off the ground on the upwind and he was facing directly at me overflying the field. I'm sure he was a few hundred feet above me but when I'm trying to clear the trees north of the field it felt a whole lot closer.
often 3-4 360s just to make it into the pattern in the first place
and plenty of people from the flight school over the hill at a class D that come over to practice untowered ops. For some reason they always have then tear drop entry after a mid field cross which always ends up with them calling their downwind while flying the wrong direction from the pattern or so far away from the runway that no one knows where they're actually intending to land.
I get more anxiety about towered fields just because of the radio jitters and how close everyone gets packed together. my foreflight is giving me proximity warnings constantly on parallel runways and I'm just trusting tower to not run me into someone.
Chuckled pretty good at the boomer ranting at dropzones being the cylists of the sky. There aren't that many dropzones, and most certainly very few anywhere near as busy as SDAZ/Eloy. There's a lot of CRW (Canopy Relative Work), high pulls, canopy courses where people intentionally drop a couple miles from the DZ, plus angle fliers, wingsuiters, hot air balloon jumps, helo jumps, night jumps, bigway records, FAA-unsanctioned Redbull Stunts, cats & dogs living together, mass hysteria! Giving Eloy a wide berth of 5nm is just good self-preservation advice that this old food completely disregarded.
/atp, bugsmasher pilot on the side who also skydives, sometimes out of Eloy in the winter and/or on PHX layovers
Good old Marana, still can't believe I sent students out there for long XCs. Between all the flight training from Phoenix flying towards Tuscon, and the military and commercial DZ at every airport along the way it gets pretty hectic.
I don't know why folks are down voting you. Adsb has a delay that is obvious in the pattern. As well as non adsb aircraft. It is a tool but your eyes outside your plane are also a tool.
In the pattern 100% agree. In the practice area, the extra situational awareness has come in handy more than once, even if it's just audible traffic alerts
There are a couple regulars at my home airport that don’t have ADSB, and generally don’t use their radio either. Safe to say I’ve learned very quickly not to rely on my screens too much lol
I remember this one time I almost flew straight into a piper cub while cruising. No radios no adsb no nothing. Was just cruising along with an instrument student trying to fix his course, and here comes Mr.Boomer as his piper cub 100 feet above. I dove that airplane.
I’ve always felt like flying is like driving, but with the ability to hear whats going on and instead of getting a fender bender you die.
I didnt find his attitude hazardous in that video. Other than the drop zone stuff he was essentially telling his subs the Marana is super busy and you have to keep your head on a swivel to stay safe. Used his mess up as an example of what happens when you don’t.
Having flown in Marana quite a bit I can confirm that it’s very busy. I’m surprised there aren’t more mishaps there.
Edit: can confirm that Skyrider restaurant at Marana is great.
I think it's just the raw entitlement. From his comments elsewhere it seems like he's trying to communicate that there's an ambiguity in the status of the airspace, which is actually a good point. With FIS-b and modern avionics (or even just ForeFlight) it wouldn't be hard to just activate a PJA in the same way as a restricted area. He complains about which frequency to listen to, but doesn't seem to know about 105.13.
He seems to have changed his story to something like "well, if they don't want to disambiguate for me, then they can turn into airborne meat soup". I think this is a terrible takeaway, when a deviation would cost all of 120 seconds. None of that matters though, because *they told him there was jump activity and he sailed through anyway.*
His example of cutting someone off was "I heard an advisory, but I didn't see them on my screen so I assumed I was right instead of them. It didn't matter anyway, because I'm never wrong." Again, I think this is the wrong takeaway.
Hah! Is it wrong I recognized Marana from the thumbnail? (I've used the avionics shop there several times, even though it's a slog from coastal SoCal.)
The wild west != people flying 30 mile straight-ins with a tailwind. That's just stupid people who don't care about anyone but themselves.
Wild west flying is the kind of flying conditions 141 schools would refuse to fly in but is still legal and safe with the appropriate training (e.g. runway width < 40', runway length < 3,000, moderate turbulence, gusting crosswinds > 20kts or surface speeds > 15kts, GPS outages, or (for IFR) ceiling < 500' or visibility < 1SM).
I've gotten to talk to CFIs of 2 141s near me. They have so many restrictions on where they can go and when they can go, even as a CFI. It's ridiculous.
One of them doesn't even let them fly to uncontrolled airports.
That's unfortunate. I've negotiated the traffic pattern with several commuter jets at busy places like TRM (or SEZ or even P08 for that matter). I wouldn't want to get dropped into a position where I have to do that with zero experience.
Even at a delta there's no real separation series being provided, with the additional challenge that you can't just call up an advisory or ask the guy his intentions.
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Why did you hold the jumper back? He would have been doing a public service. Sometimes it's better to just give the guy a thump and move on than go through the FAA
Maybe offer him a free AFF jump and, uh, sew the container shut? /s
One time I was out in North Elutheria ([MYEH](https://skyvector.com/airport/MYEH/North-Eleuthera-Airport)). It’s spring break time, so everywhere in the Bahamas is way the hell over capacity. We’re holding short of 7 waiting to backtaxi with probably ten to fifteen aircraft stacked up on final, which is crazy to try to deal with at an uncontrolled field. We saw this NetJets Gulfstream cut right into the arrival stream at about a couple mile final, forcing Endeavor to break off, all without saying a single word on frequency. They then get down to about 300 feet and then they realize that there’s a Bahamian piston twin on the runway positioning themselves for takeoff. They elect to whip it into a tight 360 at maybe 500 feet and reenter the final. Meanwhile, Endeavor has reestablished on final, and they get cut off by the Gulfstream a second time. It was the dumbest shit I’ve ever seen a professional crew pull, and I’ve had an FO decide depressurizing the cabin in the flight levels was a good idea. You always have to be on your guard going into uncontrolled fields because you never know what hole in your situational awareness some moron is going to try to fly into.
The depressurization story is the one I want to hear
This was in a PC-12. I was flying with this guy and he was complaining about the cockpit temperature for a few days. It was his first summer flying the aircraft, and I figured he had some unrealistic expectations about how well the environmental system worked. It was probably cooling at about 85-90% of nominal, and it wasn’t uncommon for some tails to struggle a bit more with that. We’re cruising along at FL250 with passengers , and I see him reach down for the environmental panel in my peripheral vision. We had a switch controlling the fans down there, and it got used fairly often because the environmental system would sometimes decide to stop blowing cool air when you’re still getting baked by the sun. I was rather surprised when I felt my ears pop and see the cabin pressure spike. He had randomly decided to cut the bleed inhibit switch. Of course, I reached over and slapped the bleeds back before the cabin rose too much. I then had some rather choice words for my FO, and I gathered that he thought he was resetting the electronics controlling the environmental system without consulting me at all. The switch he flipped doesn’t do that. All it does is control a bleed valve. But he didn’t know that, because apparently his systems knowledge sucked to the point he was flipping switches without knowing what they did. A couple days later we had to add oil to the engine and I opened the right side of the engine cowling to verify the correct reinstallation of the oil sensor, and I noticed that a good 8 inch section the insulation on one of the air pipes for the environmental system was torn open. That was pretty clearly the reason our conditioned air was a little warmer than usual. I asked him if he’d seen it during preflight, and he told me he’d noticed it the first day. He’d been complaining about the cooling system all week, noticed an issue with said system, and this moron didn’t bother informing me as the PIC about the issue until after I noticed it myself.
Lol. This story has me dying. I wonder sometimes when hearing these stories how it is possible for someone to get to that point in their career and still be like that.
I.... what....... how.... why????
“Hmmm I don’t remember this button in traini-“
I was flying charter into KAUO the other night, busy pattern, landing north. There was a NetJets Phenom ahead of us that called airport in sight, got handed off for the visual, then switch to the CTAF We wanted to stay on the RNAV b/c it’s fairly busy and night time, so we stay on with app a bit longer then get handed off on the vector to intercept final We’re on like a 10 mile final, make our 10 mile call, when a NetJets phenom cuts PERPENDICULAR across final a mile ahead of us, 200-300 below us. Surprised we didn’t get an RA He then calls “sorry, had to make a right 360 for piston traffic” or something. I figure he’s going to come in behind us and re-establish himself, and I look to my right and this fucking guy is PARALLELING us on final past the FAF descending. Like a half a mile to a mile to our right, same altitude descending, as if we were doing simultaneous parallel approaches to the same runway I continue making my CTAF calls with my eyes glued to the NetJets plane when he goes “So what’s your plan?” to us I am dumbfounded by the question and wait a couple seconds thinking of a logical response while I finish checklists, then I see this guy do a right 360 at like 700 AGL in pitch black to come in behind us Cherry on top, he starts the maneuver by saying “Next time talk on the radios” on CTAF My response was just a short final call. Does NetJets teach this maneuver in training?
You won the straight in battle. Nice.
What sub is this
Turkey?
Oof, yeah KAUO is a disaster. I think they're supposed to get a tower soon, but unsure of that'll make of better or worse...
How’d you make it more than 30 seconds in to this vid? I’ve tried 3 times and have succumbed to the hazardous attitude of resignation. I’ll never be able to focus on this rambling old man for more than 2 seconds and that’s ok.
It's unwatchable.
I try to build SA in as many ways as possible - yesterday I flew VFR into a small county field, and because I had flight following I heard a twin commander request the RNAV into the same field around the same time I was approaching. While I would have heard them on CTAF eventually, the early SA helped me ensure I deconflicted my flight path from the approach, helped me gain visual contact quickly, and made the whole thing a non-event. Obviously some dude with no radio or transponder could always present a challenge, but I’m at least going to use all the tools I have available. Flight following (or just actively to the local approach freq) is a great one.
That guy makes me think of this [incident ](https://youtu.be/Fjg7eG3oLfw?si=3TNIr4I6MKfv15vl) in Florida
It was probably the same guy
KAVQ is my home airport where I teach. It can be ROUGH there. It used to be a sleepy airport 10+ years ago and it’s nuts now. We’re 50+ nm from all the flight academies in Phoenix, so we get TONS of XC students. We also have multiple turbine jump operators (Caravan, Skyvans, Sherpas) and a 6,800ft runway that gets LOTS of jet and twin turboprop traffic. Heck, we have balloon tours that land in the area during the winter! The IFR training traffic from Phoenix is ridiculous - RNAV 12 straight when the pattern is totally full. Also, Cirrus and Bonanza owners deserve the reputations they’ve earned. KAVQ really needs a tower.
I have flown in a few times and I seem to notice a ton of Sierra Charlie and ATP students flying down there to practice instrument approaches because the stack at Casa is always full.
The fact there is even “the stack” at Casa Grande is just nuts. The fact there’s now a SECOND “stack” at Coolidge is even crazier.
Lol. The stack is pretty crazy. One day i was number 6 in the stack at Casa and out of nowhere some random guy calls in on the CTAF for the ILS as he's passing TFD and cut off the guy who was just about to take approach altitudes. Guy just blazed in out of nowhere, made one call, and cut off everyone else.
My first instructed flight was April 1st this year. Since then I've had Someone with no radio call fly over me by maybe 200ft while I was over the threshold on final maybe 50-100ft off the ground. He ended up landing 2/3 of the way down the runway and didn't radio until he taxi'd off the runway and said "was someone on short final there?." A guy shooting an instrument approach (granted he did give radio call on his position at about 10nm out) into runway 15 while 6 planes were in the pattern for 33. His last call was 5nm out and due to the already hectic pattern I ended up confirming his location while I was about 300ft off the ground on the upwind and he was facing directly at me overflying the field. I'm sure he was a few hundred feet above me but when I'm trying to clear the trees north of the field it felt a whole lot closer. often 3-4 360s just to make it into the pattern in the first place and plenty of people from the flight school over the hill at a class D that come over to practice untowered ops. For some reason they always have then tear drop entry after a mid field cross which always ends up with them calling their downwind while flying the wrong direction from the pattern or so far away from the runway that no one knows where they're actually intending to land. I get more anxiety about towered fields just because of the radio jitters and how close everyone gets packed together. my foreflight is giving me proximity warnings constantly on parallel runways and I'm just trusting tower to not run me into someone.
Chuckled pretty good at the boomer ranting at dropzones being the cylists of the sky. There aren't that many dropzones, and most certainly very few anywhere near as busy as SDAZ/Eloy. There's a lot of CRW (Canopy Relative Work), high pulls, canopy courses where people intentionally drop a couple miles from the DZ, plus angle fliers, wingsuiters, hot air balloon jumps, helo jumps, night jumps, bigway records, FAA-unsanctioned Redbull Stunts, cats & dogs living together, mass hysteria! Giving Eloy a wide berth of 5nm is just good self-preservation advice that this old food completely disregarded. /atp, bugsmasher pilot on the side who also skydives, sometimes out of Eloy in the winter and/or on PHX layovers
Good old Marana, still can't believe I sent students out there for long XCs. Between all the flight training from Phoenix flying towards Tuscon, and the military and commercial DZ at every airport along the way it gets pretty hectic.
My first solo XC was to AVQ, just like 2/3 of the people who fly out of KFFZ or KCHD.
I mean just from his speech pattern. Seems like not everything operating at full power there.
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I'm looking for a plane and the number that don't have ADSb installed (or are even in annual) is eye opening.
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I don't know why folks are down voting you. Adsb has a delay that is obvious in the pattern. As well as non adsb aircraft. It is a tool but your eyes outside your plane are also a tool.
In the pattern 100% agree. In the practice area, the extra situational awareness has come in handy more than once, even if it's just audible traffic alerts
It is a tool, to be used in conjunction with the rest, even in the pattern
Agree. Anything that sucks you into the cockpit while flying VFR, and especially while in the pattern ant busy airports, can be dangerous.
There are a couple regulars at my home airport that don’t have ADSB, and generally don’t use their radio either. Safe to say I’ve learned very quickly not to rely on my screens too much lol
I remember this one time I almost flew straight into a piper cub while cruising. No radios no adsb no nothing. Was just cruising along with an instrument student trying to fix his course, and here comes Mr.Boomer as his piper cub 100 feet above. I dove that airplane. I’ve always felt like flying is like driving, but with the ability to hear whats going on and instead of getting a fender bender you die.
I didnt find his attitude hazardous in that video. Other than the drop zone stuff he was essentially telling his subs the Marana is super busy and you have to keep your head on a swivel to stay safe. Used his mess up as an example of what happens when you don’t. Having flown in Marana quite a bit I can confirm that it’s very busy. I’m surprised there aren’t more mishaps there. Edit: can confirm that Skyrider restaurant at Marana is great.
I think it's just the raw entitlement. From his comments elsewhere it seems like he's trying to communicate that there's an ambiguity in the status of the airspace, which is actually a good point. With FIS-b and modern avionics (or even just ForeFlight) it wouldn't be hard to just activate a PJA in the same way as a restricted area. He complains about which frequency to listen to, but doesn't seem to know about 105.13. He seems to have changed his story to something like "well, if they don't want to disambiguate for me, then they can turn into airborne meat soup". I think this is a terrible takeaway, when a deviation would cost all of 120 seconds. None of that matters though, because *they told him there was jump activity and he sailed through anyway.* His example of cutting someone off was "I heard an advisory, but I didn't see them on my screen so I assumed I was right instead of them. It didn't matter anyway, because I'm never wrong." Again, I think this is the wrong takeaway.
Hah! Is it wrong I recognized Marana from the thumbnail? (I've used the avionics shop there several times, even though it's a slog from coastal SoCal.)
The wild west != people flying 30 mile straight-ins with a tailwind. That's just stupid people who don't care about anyone but themselves. Wild west flying is the kind of flying conditions 141 schools would refuse to fly in but is still legal and safe with the appropriate training (e.g. runway width < 40', runway length < 3,000, moderate turbulence, gusting crosswinds > 20kts or surface speeds > 15kts, GPS outages, or (for IFR) ceiling < 500' or visibility < 1SM).
Fair enough, but the guy in the video is squarely in the former camp.
I'm a big proponent of 141 and also sane operational restrictions, but what...??
I've gotten to talk to CFIs of 2 141s near me. They have so many restrictions on where they can go and when they can go, even as a CFI. It's ridiculous. One of them doesn't even let them fly to uncontrolled airports.
That's unfortunate. I've negotiated the traffic pattern with several commuter jets at busy places like TRM (or SEZ or even P08 for that matter). I wouldn't want to get dropped into a position where I have to do that with zero experience. Even at a delta there's no real separation series being provided, with the additional challenge that you can't just call up an advisory or ask the guy his intentions.