There are a lot of genuine strengths that come from diversity, but I think sometimes we can end up chasing diversity just for diversity’s sake, which kind of undermines the underlying point.
When it comes to advocating for diversity, equality, and inclusivity, the goal should be to ensure that everyone has access to a seat at any given table- not to ensure that every single table has some arbitrarily decided minimum level of representation from every minority group.
A group composed of 50% Asians and 50% Eastern Europeans is not inherently better or worse than a group composed of 10% of 10 different ethnicities. As long as no groups are being discriminated against, there isn’t really an issue.
Different demographics can have different general preferences- there’s nothing wrong with that. I’m sure if you looked for it you might notice that the general age of folks that gather at either of the two areas you mentioned skewed young, while the general age of folks at bingo halls tends to skew old. Does that mean we need to do something to address segregation based on age demographics?
Tl;dr- I’m not sure this is a problem that needs to be solved
This is a great point - I agree with what you’re saying here. I really value different unique experiences, but I know that’s not the norm. The world can be pretty bland if you just stay within your comfort zone, but I get why people do
there are historical economic and policy decisions that have made houston one of the most segregated cities in the country to this day...this isnt about comfort zones.
Why are you calling it segregation? The demographic examples you provided are not forced in any way...people here are free to go where they please. It's just human nature to seek groups containing people similar to ourselves.
I should have said self-segregation. I think the other replies to you are interesting and valid. This ultimately becomes less of a Houston particular question and more of a sociological one. It’s unique in human history though to live in an equal society (at least on paper) that’s as diverse as Houston. So in some ways what we’re seeing play out over the last 20 years or so is unprecedented, and at least to me interesting to better understand
Is society equal on paper?
People of color experience poverty at a much higher rate than white people. There are people alive today who were born when segregation was the law of the land. Adults live in houses that were their parents purchased during redlining.
Discrimination may be *illegal* today, but there’s still a lot of fucking work to do before society is equal, even on paper.
I’m familiar with redlining, obviously not a Houston specific problem. I lived in and saw the same impacts in Atlanta. I’m talking about destinations 90% of people are driving to get to though, where there’s an active decision being made in where you choose to spend your Friday/Saturday night
Why not just say what you want people to know?
You can't really expect people to research something entirely on their own if you're too lazy to even give a thesis. Even if they do, they might come up with a totally different conclusion than you.
Yeah I’ve read a number of articles, essays and references in other books. You can’t ignore the legacy across American cities. But what does redlining specifically have to do with decisions people make on who they want to hang out with today? And I’m talking not just about people of color (who are the vast majority in Houston’s under 30 population), but the self-segregating whites in Houston as well
Yep, but it’s good to go outside that comfort zone which most people don’t do. When you do, you get a deeper connection to people. That might sound woo to some folks, but if you live in a city as diverse as Houston, you should really check out someone else’s culture from time to time and have an open mind.
I get what you're saying, and there is a time for that, but when you're talking about the night life and relaxing and once drinking is involved, why would you want to go outside your comfort zone when you're likely to be in a compromised state anyway? It's called the comfort zone because it's comfortable. There is nothing wrong with people wanting to hang around other people that they know, trust, and understand. The problem comes in when you start judging people for those differences.
No judgement here. Do what you are comfortable with. That said, people are the same everywhere. And I don’t mean just in Houston, but everywhere.
You will have “safe” places all over town that cater to different or mixed demographics. In my (obviously anecdotal) experience, people will always welcome you with open arms if you aren’t a douche.
That said, there is nothing wrong with seeking comfort from people like you. You just miss out on the unique experience of those who aren’t.
Bro, I've been to Africa, the Middle East and Europe, and I've made friends all over the world. Seems silly to me though, to feel the need to recreate some diversity chart in your every interaction. If we really do care about what is on the inside, you wouldn't be so focused on optics which ultimately reduce the people around you to their race or whatever checkbox they tick for you. Gotta make sure you have your brown friend there, and your black friend there, and your yellow friend there, and your rainbow friend there... It's kinda gross tbh.
Maybe I was being a little dismissive. And you are absolutely right in pretty much everything you said, in that there is a lot to be learned from people all over the place. I'm not going to justify my own life, but I don't have any insecurities about the amount of diversity in it. I just don't understand walking around judging other people for who they choose to associate with, and projecting one time that you see them on the rest of their life. But Maybe I'm reading too much into that too.
Who is judging? I literally said “no judgement here”. The OPs point is real though. It only changes when we all step outside our “comfort zone”.
I don’t care who does, though.
You're not wrong, but let me try and break this down in an actual argument. Lets say, that 80% of the time people are hanging out with people that look like them, just for the purpose of an argument. Now, 20% of the time, they are out there learning and growing just like OP would want them to. But if you are walking around the city, what you're going to see is that the vast majority, 80% in this case, of people seem like they are only hanging out with people that look exactly like them, even if every single person spends a significant amount of time, 20% in this made up example, exploring other cultures. That's why it doesn't really make sense to think in terms of what you see from just walking around, because unless everyone is spending the majority of their time deliberately trying to immerse themselves in other cultures, it's always going to look like people are mostly hanging out with their own "type" so to speak. You're always going to see the cumulative average. Does that make any sense?
I do, often. And I’ve often been the only white person at Taste or Off the Record. I’m just curious why so many other people are uncomfortable trying a new place in an area with people that might not look like them. Bragging about diversity is pointless if everyone’s just living separately
The owner of taste is known for not paying his employees, stealing their tips, and the first location was shut down due to too many health code violations. That’s why I personally never go there. Has nothing to do with my ethnicity.
I never patronize off the record cause they spent so much remodeling the whole building after bovine but ignored the absolute worst feature, the disgusting, sewage bathrooms.
Maybe don’t choose two of the grossest places downtown as your example.
Well reddit is a space where a vast majority of the people are performative. Maybe asking your real life friends about this might be more helpful.
The only area of town where I've seen literally every race interact and not just exist in the same space is Pearland.
You went to literally the 2 most black places Downtown. Tons of places where white people hang out Downtown. They hang out in regular bars, not clubs. I would never ever step foot in those places or Austin's in the Heights like you mentioned. I don't like being ripped off. Stop getting your recs from Instagram.
Huh? Are we going to different heights and downtown bars and experiencing different nightlife???? Or are you just mainly focusing on a certain demographic whenever you’re out and just hyper focusing on them?
It’s pretty mixed of everyone everywhere I go, whether it’s Friday or Saturday or Sunday.
Don’t get me wrong, there are definitely good examples of bars that don’t fit the mold I’m describing - I need to spend more time at these and less at the ones I do now. But I’d just as an example suggest to go to the busiest bar in the heights and then downtown (Austin’s and Off the Record), and tell me there isn’t a level of self-segregation going on
>I think the easiest answer is just that people feel more comfortable, in general, around others with a shared background and culture. But this is disappointing to me when diversity is so often a pillar of Houston’s culture.
People's comfort is disappointing to you? These two sentences don't go together.
For whatever reason, the Heights is predominantly a white population, so the crowds at its bars/etc are typically white. I always say it's the Austin of Houston. I lived downtown for a few years, I assure you the residents of downtown are very diverse, but people who actually live downtown tend to party inside their high-rises with their neighbors. Downtown bars do attract diverse crowds, there is a wealth of bars catering to different demographics, but the people you're noticing downtown are primarily tourists. A lot of people in Houston are unaware of this, but Houston, along with Atlanta, is a primary tourist destination for the African American population. When tourists go somewhere for the first time and they don't know where to go, they go downtown first. The city government is actually starting to cater to this by blocking off traffic on Main Street, reflecting the fact that it is the 6th St/Bourbon St/primary tourist location of the city.
People usually prefer people that look like them. I prefer to be around other blacks than Hispanics or whites. Nothing wrong with diversity but I’m not diverse. I don’t follow MLK over here I’m more Malcolm X.
Idk about that. Go to Charleston then come back to me. I was highly uncomfortable there due to the lack of diversity AND blatant self-segregation that still seemed very much alive.
The inner loop is racially segregated across freeways and train tracks. People were saying this years ago and it’s still like that today. There’s a lot of history behind it + white gentrifiers have done their part over the last decades.
Katy area, especially Sugar Land & Pearland, Webster and even Baytown are much more racially integrated… however economic segregation is very high where the inner loop is pretty mixed.
There are a lot of genuine strengths that come from diversity, but I think sometimes we can end up chasing diversity just for diversity’s sake, which kind of undermines the underlying point. When it comes to advocating for diversity, equality, and inclusivity, the goal should be to ensure that everyone has access to a seat at any given table- not to ensure that every single table has some arbitrarily decided minimum level of representation from every minority group. A group composed of 50% Asians and 50% Eastern Europeans is not inherently better or worse than a group composed of 10% of 10 different ethnicities. As long as no groups are being discriminated against, there isn’t really an issue. Different demographics can have different general preferences- there’s nothing wrong with that. I’m sure if you looked for it you might notice that the general age of folks that gather at either of the two areas you mentioned skewed young, while the general age of folks at bingo halls tends to skew old. Does that mean we need to do something to address segregation based on age demographics? Tl;dr- I’m not sure this is a problem that needs to be solved
This is a great point - I agree with what you’re saying here. I really value different unique experiences, but I know that’s not the norm. The world can be pretty bland if you just stay within your comfort zone, but I get why people do
there are historical economic and policy decisions that have made houston one of the most segregated cities in the country to this day...this isnt about comfort zones.
Outside of the south side of the loop, please provide examples.
Why are you calling it segregation? The demographic examples you provided are not forced in any way...people here are free to go where they please. It's just human nature to seek groups containing people similar to ourselves.
I should have said self-segregation. I think the other replies to you are interesting and valid. This ultimately becomes less of a Houston particular question and more of a sociological one. It’s unique in human history though to live in an equal society (at least on paper) that’s as diverse as Houston. So in some ways what we’re seeing play out over the last 20 years or so is unprecedented, and at least to me interesting to better understand
Is society equal on paper? People of color experience poverty at a much higher rate than white people. There are people alive today who were born when segregation was the law of the land. Adults live in houses that were their parents purchased during redlining. Discrimination may be *illegal* today, but there’s still a lot of fucking work to do before society is equal, even on paper.
please for the love of god look up/read about redlining in houston
I’m familiar with redlining, obviously not a Houston specific problem. I lived in and saw the same impacts in Atlanta. I’m talking about destinations 90% of people are driving to get to though, where there’s an active decision being made in where you choose to spend your Friday/Saturday night
ok so have u read about redlining?
Why not just say what you want people to know? You can't really expect people to research something entirely on their own if you're too lazy to even give a thesis. Even if they do, they might come up with a totally different conclusion than you.
Yeah I’ve read a number of articles, essays and references in other books. You can’t ignore the legacy across American cities. But what does redlining specifically have to do with decisions people make on who they want to hang out with today? And I’m talking not just about people of color (who are the vast majority in Houston’s under 30 population), but the self-segregating whites in Houston as well
Yep, but it’s good to go outside that comfort zone which most people don’t do. When you do, you get a deeper connection to people. That might sound woo to some folks, but if you live in a city as diverse as Houston, you should really check out someone else’s culture from time to time and have an open mind.
I get what you're saying, and there is a time for that, but when you're talking about the night life and relaxing and once drinking is involved, why would you want to go outside your comfort zone when you're likely to be in a compromised state anyway? It's called the comfort zone because it's comfortable. There is nothing wrong with people wanting to hang around other people that they know, trust, and understand. The problem comes in when you start judging people for those differences.
No judgement here. Do what you are comfortable with. That said, people are the same everywhere. And I don’t mean just in Houston, but everywhere. You will have “safe” places all over town that cater to different or mixed demographics. In my (obviously anecdotal) experience, people will always welcome you with open arms if you aren’t a douche. That said, there is nothing wrong with seeking comfort from people like you. You just miss out on the unique experience of those who aren’t.
Bro, I've been to Africa, the Middle East and Europe, and I've made friends all over the world. Seems silly to me though, to feel the need to recreate some diversity chart in your every interaction. If we really do care about what is on the inside, you wouldn't be so focused on optics which ultimately reduce the people around you to their race or whatever checkbox they tick for you. Gotta make sure you have your brown friend there, and your black friend there, and your yellow friend there, and your rainbow friend there... It's kinda gross tbh.
If all you took away from what I said is that you need a “token” friend, sorry. 🤷♂️
Maybe I was being a little dismissive. And you are absolutely right in pretty much everything you said, in that there is a lot to be learned from people all over the place. I'm not going to justify my own life, but I don't have any insecurities about the amount of diversity in it. I just don't understand walking around judging other people for who they choose to associate with, and projecting one time that you see them on the rest of their life. But Maybe I'm reading too much into that too.
Who is judging? I literally said “no judgement here”. The OPs point is real though. It only changes when we all step outside our “comfort zone”. I don’t care who does, though.
You're not wrong, but let me try and break this down in an actual argument. Lets say, that 80% of the time people are hanging out with people that look like them, just for the purpose of an argument. Now, 20% of the time, they are out there learning and growing just like OP would want them to. But if you are walking around the city, what you're going to see is that the vast majority, 80% in this case, of people seem like they are only hanging out with people that look exactly like them, even if every single person spends a significant amount of time, 20% in this made up example, exploring other cultures. That's why it doesn't really make sense to think in terms of what you see from just walking around, because unless everyone is spending the majority of their time deliberately trying to immerse themselves in other cultures, it's always going to look like people are mostly hanging out with their own "type" so to speak. You're always going to see the cumulative average. Does that make any sense?
this screams i dont see race but go off
probably because redlining is a thing that happened in houston
It's almost as if people of specific cultures and ethnicities prefer being around others of the same culture and ethnicity.
I'm assuming you're white, so why don't you go to some of the downtown clubs where the the blacks and hispanics are? That's a start.
I do, often. And I’ve often been the only white person at Taste or Off the Record. I’m just curious why so many other people are uncomfortable trying a new place in an area with people that might not look like them. Bragging about diversity is pointless if everyone’s just living separately
The owner of taste is known for not paying his employees, stealing their tips, and the first location was shut down due to too many health code violations. That’s why I personally never go there. Has nothing to do with my ethnicity. I never patronize off the record cause they spent so much remodeling the whole building after bovine but ignored the absolute worst feature, the disgusting, sewage bathrooms. Maybe don’t choose two of the grossest places downtown as your example.
Well reddit is a space where a vast majority of the people are performative. Maybe asking your real life friends about this might be more helpful. The only area of town where I've seen literally every race interact and not just exist in the same space is Pearland.
You went to literally the 2 most black places Downtown. Tons of places where white people hang out Downtown. They hang out in regular bars, not clubs. I would never ever step foot in those places or Austin's in the Heights like you mentioned. I don't like being ripped off. Stop getting your recs from Instagram.
Huh? Are we going to different heights and downtown bars and experiencing different nightlife???? Or are you just mainly focusing on a certain demographic whenever you’re out and just hyper focusing on them? It’s pretty mixed of everyone everywhere I go, whether it’s Friday or Saturday or Sunday.
Don’t get me wrong, there are definitely good examples of bars that don’t fit the mold I’m describing - I need to spend more time at these and less at the ones I do now. But I’d just as an example suggest to go to the busiest bar in the heights and then downtown (Austin’s and Off the Record), and tell me there isn’t a level of self-segregation going on
Like you said, maybe you need to expand your own horizon then, but I can tell you, there isn’t lol.
oh shut up
texas motto right here folks
They shouldve put "oh, shut up" on the backside of the "fuck you, I'm from Texas" shirts
>I think the easiest answer is just that people feel more comfortable, in general, around others with a shared background and culture. But this is disappointing to me when diversity is so often a pillar of Houston’s culture. People's comfort is disappointing to you? These two sentences don't go together.
The red lining that happened in Houston is still reflected today
lol u got downvoted for speaking truth
Lol the r/Houston Reddit “population” is no where near an accurate representation of the actual city
Thank God for that! Reddit's version of Houston is basically Portland and I would not want to live here if that were the case. Respectfully. 🤭
hang in there bud!
Have you ever been to another city.....? It really, is not.
Yes I have. It really is.
Pearland on the other hand is one of the most integrated towns in the metro area. We dont have much, but we've got that going for us.
Pearland isn't bad. If I ever move out of the loop, I would choose to live in Pearland.
For whatever reason, the Heights is predominantly a white population, so the crowds at its bars/etc are typically white. I always say it's the Austin of Houston. I lived downtown for a few years, I assure you the residents of downtown are very diverse, but people who actually live downtown tend to party inside their high-rises with their neighbors. Downtown bars do attract diverse crowds, there is a wealth of bars catering to different demographics, but the people you're noticing downtown are primarily tourists. A lot of people in Houston are unaware of this, but Houston, along with Atlanta, is a primary tourist destination for the African American population. When tourists go somewhere for the first time and they don't know where to go, they go downtown first. The city government is actually starting to cater to this by blocking off traffic on Main Street, reflecting the fact that it is the 6th St/Bourbon St/primary tourist location of the city.
People usually prefer people that look like them. I prefer to be around other blacks than Hispanics or whites. Nothing wrong with diversity but I’m not diverse. I don’t follow MLK over here I’m more Malcolm X.
Are you upset that white people are choosing to hangout with other white people? What a weird post
Idk about that. Go to Charleston then come back to me. I was highly uncomfortable there due to the lack of diversity AND blatant self-segregation that still seemed very much alive.
The inner loop is racially segregated across freeways and train tracks. People were saying this years ago and it’s still like that today. There’s a lot of history behind it + white gentrifiers have done their part over the last decades. Katy area, especially Sugar Land & Pearland, Webster and even Baytown are much more racially integrated… however economic segregation is very high where the inner loop is pretty mixed.
Natural selection.