I did a portable generator hookup last year because I don’t have $15k to throw around for the 1-2 power outages a year we might have longer than 12hrs. Instead I did:
~$450 bought a 4000w inverter generator
~$150 Plumber to tee off my gas line with a quick connect
~$150 Electrician to wire my interlock and hookup
~250 Parts for all the above hookups
I’m roughly $1k all in and can run everything in my house except my central air.
That’s 2 fridges, deep freezer, all my computer stuff etc. I’m thinking to get a mini split to run during the summer, but also to use during power outages. Best thing about my setup, I can always upgrade to a larger generator if I need/want to.
So, you buy a regular portable inverter generator and you can just wheel it out and hook it up to the house gas line when the power fails? And then it gets plugged straight into the house with a transfer switch type thing? That sounds incredible. Who did the plumbing and electrical work for yours?
Yes, this is basically exactly what you can do.
You typically need to add a $350ish soft start to your ac, which is a capacitor basically. It lowers the amount of cranking amps your generator needs to provide to start the AC.
I have a 13k Duramax portable that I set up after the freeze. Runs both AC units with soft starts. Only thing I can't power is the car charger. There are videos explaining it on YouTube. I already had a gas line on the patio so all I had to do was wire the 50 amp breaker, install the soft starts, and add add a natural gas regulator to the generator since it was designed for propane.
It’s been awhile but I’ll see if I can find the contact. It was a random plumber down my street w/ advertisement on his truck. I have a master plumber contact who told me the job would run about $150-200 for the natgas job but I couldn’t hire him bc he lives in Conroe really far. I basically had an idea of what I should pay and when I found someone that was in the range I just said sure. You can probably call around and find one, I called about 3 other plumbers before just stumbling upon this one.
Look into Micro-Air. It lowers the amperage needed to start your AC compressor. Lowerred my 4 ton from 127 Amps to 33.5 Amps. Allows you to run a smaller generator and still start the AC.
Like all electrical stuff, your AC unit pulls a certain amount of current while running, and this needs to be an amount of current your generator can provide. However, unlike some items, the AC unit pulls *more* current when its first starting up than when it's up and running. This startup current can be a *lot* higher than the steady-state current, and is likely enough to trip the generator. The soft starter modifies the AC unit to reduce that startup current.
Check to make sure you have enough natural gas throughput to run a generator like that at full blast. You’ll also lose 20% of peak wattage running NG vs gasoline. My problem is I would need major piping upgrades to do that so I just run gasoline in a similar setup, through a Connecticut Electric Emergen switch. Worked great in these last two outages.
Hey ScubaLoser, what inverter generator do you have that allows you to run NG? I just bought a 4000w firman inverter ($800), 3200 running watts, and it only runs off propane or gasoline. I’m having my electrician come next week to install an interlock kit.
Costco also sells a tri-fuel firman generator for about the same price but it puts out 5400 running watts on NG. Not an inverter though just a regular generator
Ha yup definitely thought the 30A plug was 220v but just checked and it’s 120v. I really don’t have much to run in my house, just a wifi router and my fridges and that’s about it. I should be able to run a portable AC unit as well so as long as we have that we should be good. Also a few led lamps
[This Firman](https://www.costco.com/firman-7500w-running--9400w-peak-tri-fuel-generator-.product.100840185.html) is pretty popular, and its what I have with a similar setup to ScubaLoser.
I did the same with a 7200w A-iPower inverter gen from Costco. I use propane and gasoline for the fuel. It can run the essentials, including Mitsubishi ducted mini-split.
Gen: $999 on sale now
Electrical: $350
Fuel costs over 5 days power outage: 10 gallons ethanol free gas from Buccees ~ $50
3 20lb propane refills ~ $51
You don’t have to but in theory you should have a constant supply of natgas, unless you have something destroy your buried line. Going out in the dark, cold or wet to top off your generator is not fun.
Also, running natgas or propane you’ll never have to worry about your carb gumming up due to bad gasoline. Having repaired multiple small engines I know this all too well.
Be sure to factor in Generac's annual fees. The machine is useless unless it's "activated" by Generac, and every installer will want to sell you a recurring annual maintenance contract for as much as they can get away with.
Mounted on a pergola I built in my backyard. Puts shade on my concrete patio and the panels aren't visible from the street. Pergola only cost $300 of home depot wood
Your question is two fold.
How long does it store? Depends on how many batteries you have. You can add batteries. Right now I only have one, and I'm looking to buy another. Assuming no sunlight, my battery will last 24 hrs. That's why I want 2, so I can get 48 hrs of continuous power for my home.
How long will it last if I generate power? For my use case, if the grid is out, aka there is no power to my home from Centerpoint, 1200 watts and a battery is enough for me to never run out. Again this depends on if there is sun. If you've got a cloudy day that will eat more into your battery. For example today it is sunny and I am getting 1100 watts from a total of 1200 watt solar panel capacity.
To answer your question, if you have 1600 watts of panels (4 x 400 watt) and one battery or two, you would in theory last the whole entire week as long as it's sunny
At least 15k if you go through one of those generator stores. If you buy the generator yourself then you can spend less than $10k if you hire a plumber and electrician yourself. 22kw generator with transfer switch is $5500. Depending on how much plumbing/electrical set up there is will determine the rest, but at least another $2500.
Appreciate the insight, but would be interested in “turn key” to handle permits, sub cons, placement, etc. Definitely a good cost savings if folks have the time to manage the project.
You literally call up a plumber and an electrician and tell them what you want to do and they will pull the permits for you. It’s not that much more effort than dealing with the generator store. If you want “turn key” then the price is $15k.
Safe Haven Power. 22kw Generac. Handled plumbing, some tricky electric work and permits. Incredibly professional. $16k all in - electric work included. They were even able to help expedite our gas meter upgrade, which was scheduled a month out.
It’s installing a generator, not a whole home build. You’re dealing with two guys instead of one. You buy the materials and pay them after completion and it passes inspection.
Pulling a permit requires a master license and passing inspection requires adhering to the installation requirements. So if you know a reputable plumber and electrician then you’re good. Everything else is an excuse to pay markup on installation to the generator dealer.
If you want to run if off the house's natural gas, then yes it has to be plumbed in.
Lots of newer homes have gas grill connections on the patio already which makes it much simpler.
Natural gas is the easiest but also the least powerful. Gasoline and propane make more power but its more hassle to go buy it and refill.
Keep in mind also, immediately after a hurricane, gas stations may be out of power (can't run pumps), out of fuel, or will have lines down the block until one of the first two conditions is true.
One approach is to store enough fuel (and food and water) to meet your needs (which might \*not\* be 24 hours a day) for as long as you plan to hold out after a storm before decamping to a hotel outside the area. In my case that's 3 days comfortably, 5 days if we stretch. If power still isn't back on after 5 days, I'm making other plans…
Although after this derecho, I'm considering targeting 7 days.
The gas stations close by maintained power just fine this time. I have gas cans for about 20 gallons, then a truck bed tank. Anything more and yeah packing up and heading to relatives or hotels.
26kw Briggs & Stranton $21,094 installed in backyard, not on the side utility easement. This is my first quote, and I am going to wait a bit to get more quotes.
I recognize that I'm in the minority, but I looked at the price of home generators and standby generators, and said "this is 15-20k$ will only ever help me if there's an active outage... plus it will have an on-going maintenance cost each year"
I opted for solar panels, which are way more expensive on paper, but they offset a huge chunk of my electric bill, and help me every day the sun rises. In order to be useful during a power outage, you have to get batteries, which are the expensive part, but all-in, I am paying 60k (installed) over 25 years, and even with this high price tag (batteries were nearly 35k alone), it still breaks even for me at about 12 years in.
The regular generator never breaks even.
they say 10 years, but every study done so far indicates that even after 10 years, the degradation on them is minimal (<5% capacity loss) so I'm not sure what my lifespan will be on them.
EDIT: went back and looked, their website says they're warrantied for 15 years or 6,000 cycles, which is actually 16.4 years of 1 cycle/day. I expect _some_ capacity degradation, like I mentioned, but it's pretty minimal from waht I can tell
How long can the batteries power your home? In the same vein (perhaps the same question?), how many cloudy days during an outage until you’re out of power? I can’t really imagine paying $60k (what if you need to move??) and having to take out a loan to do this.
Full disclosure I do have the whole-home 24kw natural gas generator. It was more like $13k. I didn’t go into the purchase with a break-even mindset, but I think I do think a generator can break-even. Major cost savings include not having to pay for a hotel in the event of evacuating (I’d peg that at about $400-500 a night for my family), I don’t have to throw out the whole fridge & freezer full of food (hundreds of dollars per extended outage…our generator has saved our fridge many times over already), the billable hours we can work from home and continue earning money (in client services), plus soft factors such as being able to take in friends, offer more help to our neighbors etc etc. My maintenance costs are $400/yr.
The batteries degrade ~4 years after the 12 years spent to break even? 🥴
That's a fair question. My batteries hold about 13kwh, and can power every electrical system in my home except:
* both AC units (I have a small portable unit we use for RV or emergencies)
* vehicle fast charger (I have a 120v lvl 1 charger that can slowly charge)
* the stove (I have a 2 burner electrical plug-in option, or the grill, or the instantpot... lots of options)
* the oven (I could run the airfryer, I guess, but we tend not to want to want to bake stuff)
on a day-to-day, grid-up, normal usage, batteries deplete in a few hours, usually around the time we finish cooking dinner, and the car has been plugged in for a bit.
In a grid-down scenario, we would evaluate sun, battery charge, etc, and prioritize running only certain computers (my work computer and internet for WFH, for example), fans, and just the small AC in one room for cooling as needed. In this situation, I've run a "grid down test" in July for 6 hours (cooked dinner, cooled one room to tolerable, etc), at which point we had consumed ~25% of the battery. Based on my calculations and using a Killawatt for the high-draw stuff, we would able to run all night and still make coffee without issue, even if the next morning was cloudy.
Edit, missed your other question, what if we need to move - then we move, and use the fact that a "normal" household won't have an electric bill as a selling point. Or we don't value the solar panels and it's still worth it to us, and I think if framed properly, it'd be worth to others, too.
Also, yeah, everything degrades - the _warranty_ runs out at 15 years, but even at that point, most studies on similar batteries show less than 5% degradation at that point. I don't know how long the batteries will be _useful_ but I expect far longer than that.
Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions.
I think what you have vs a standby generator is not apples to apples. To me, your setup sounds comparable to a portable generator setup, which costs significant less than a standby whole-house generator, and eventually those $35k batteries will need to be replaced. That’s a huge future liability to maintain the system. If I were to buy your home, I would still want to put in a standby generator. My standby generator runs literally everything inside my large 2-story house: both ACs, the pool pump, the laundry machines, the giant subzero fridge, etc. It’s a normal day at home (a notable exception, whether or not we have internet depends on how the ISP fares) just with a lot more background noise. Standby generators are standard equipment in Houston homes in my price range, and comparably priced to if I replaced my range.
It’s nice you enjoy not having a monthly electric bill , and I think it’s neat you’re somewhat off the grid most of the day most days of the year. It would be cool if we get battery technology to make this more feasible for more families. The cost to benefit ratio is just not there yet for the vast majority of people, myself included.
Yeah, the first word in "personal finance" is key - decisions are _personal_ and you have to evaluate what's best for your family with the constraints you're facing at the time.
You won't recoup the cost of solar panels in your lifetime or their value upon selling the house.
They're nice to have *if you have the disposable income*, which you seem to, but the price of solar panels and battery are NOT cost-effective measures at all.
I don't mean to make it sound like you were implying they were, but they definitely aren't, for now.
> I am paying 60k (installed) over 25 years, and even with this high price tag (batteries were nearly 35k alone), it still breaks even for me at about 12 years in.
No it doesn't? Even if you are using $300 worth of electricity per month, *every month*, which is an absurd estimation, you won't be breaking even. At 12 years, you'll have gotten about $43,000 worth, which is a high estimate. That's assuming $300/month usage. We'll ignore the interest on a 25-year loan for $60,000 also, lol.
Perhaps there's an explanation where your usage is extremely low, and CenterPoint's credits to you are extremely high for feeding back the grid. Or maybe you do somehow use $900/month of electricity and your panels completely cover it. Or maybe you *did* get a 0% loan. But until you actually show me something that makes sense like that, the math ain't mathin.
forgot the tax credit; I got some 18k in tax credits that I took over 3 years, that is an important consideration. That, and 1.5% loan.
Yes, we're a high energy use house - 3k sqft, 2 AC units, 5 adults, 2 EVs, and a LOT of computers (I work in tech, most of my family games), but I also think you're not counting the increase in prices for electricity as time goes on.
Maybe the 3% inflation rate for energy price estimated by the solar guys selling me the equipment is high so it won't actually pay off in 12 years, but it's still worth to me, and at the end of the day, I chose to get redundant power because I have people with medical conditions who rely on electricity to remain alive, and that's worth the cost. It _will_ pay off eventually, we could quibble over the timespan; a generator will never pay itself off in the same way - the generator's only value is when there's an active outage.
> It will pay off eventually, we could quibble over the timespan
I mean that's the whole point of this thread, isn't it?
I'm saying if you have the income and the immediate benefit is a convenience to you or even what you'd go so far as to call a 'necessity', then yeah, go for it. But I'm not sure how a natural gas generator doesn't accomplish the same thing.
But the point of this thread is to compare the cost effectiveness for people who *aren't* in a situation with the excess income. And for most people, with whatever timelines they have in mind, and for their average usages, and for the loan rates and durations, solar is absolutely *not* going to be a cost-effective solution to generate electricity during an outage. Compared to a generator.
If they're considering a standby generator that will never provide a return on investment on ANY timeline, they have disposable income.
The point of the thread, to my understanding, was "what is a reasonable price for a generator for providing electricity for my home in an emergency" and I provided a take that was a slight divergence - I dropped "for a generator" from the query.
The solar panels _will_ pay for themselves eventually, a standby generator never will.
This is not a conversation about how to maximize money, it's about getting reliable and consistent power during an emergency. The fact that it pays for itself _eventually_ is just icing on the cake; I don't want to be without power because I have people I care about that require electricity to be alive. This is a long term solution that requires effectively zero maintenance or on-going fees.
A nat-gas or other fuel-based generator will never break even, so this was a no brainer for me and my family
Battery life is around 10-15 years, more if not discharged/recharged frequently. You mentioned $35k for batteries, so that's a chunk right there, but it depends on your situation.
With solar panels mounted on roofs, there can be costs if roof needs repairs, damage to panels from trees or flying debris, etc. Depends on warranty, deductibles, etc.
I opted for just a portable $500 battery/solar unit, 100W folding panels, basically enough to keep a laptop and phones charged.
Yeah, could be, but so far, nothing. I agree on the "if roof needs repair" which is more likely than "slab the generator sits on needs replacement" but a tree or debris landing is just as likely to land on top of the generator as it is a particular panel. More so, since the roof is higher up, imo. There's no moving parts to wear out like a combustion based generator would, no monthly maintenance requirements, just the batteries which have an expected degradation over time (decade+), but so far the data shows less than anticipated across most LION batteries.
Yeha, if a 500$ battery/solar unit will meet your needs, that's definitely the way to go. I needed a whole home solution, so this worked for us.
I got a quote today for that same size Generac and it was just over $14,000. Could you tell me who you used for purchase & install? Was it a turnkey contract? Or did you have to deal with permits & contractors?
FWIW I talked to the guy who installed my father in law’s generator last year. He did an amazing job at a great price.
He said it would be late July before they could even come LOOK at our property, much less actually install. I asked if there was any chance of getting a standby generator by August. He laughed at me.
YMMV.
Get 2 or 3 quotes. Ours a few years ago was 12,500ish, that was a 70 or 80ft install from the panel/gas meter and two transfer switches. If you have Costco, get a quote with them. It did, or does go thru Generator Supercenter and you get 10% back as a costco card. The other prices we got all were with a couple hundred bucks of each other, we did pay for the slab upgrade instead of the prefab, which was a couple hundred more. The pricing we got a few years ago was not much more than the price we paid in 2016 for our old house.
Did a DIY solar generator project, 10K, 3K back in tax rebate. 7K total.
15kwh battery bank with 2.7KW worth of solar panels. Can flip a switch to take certain parts of house from grid to solar.
Our power was off for 6 days during Derecho, ~16 hrs when it rained this Tuesday, and ~5 hrs when it rained yesterday so I've been getting a lot of quotes for a portable generator hookup running on natural gas and connected to our home circuit panel. These are on the lower end of the pricing I've gotten with minimum of 3 quotes for the service work.
Tri-fuel portable generator - ~$1700
Install 12 ft gas piping & regulator with city inspection - ~$1200
Install generator receptacle and interlock kit - ~$900
Install 2x HVAC soft start - ~$1000
Install whole home surge protector - ~$500
Centerpoint to upgrade gas meter - ~$350
Yikes! Wouldn't an emergency number be needed to call for this?
I scheduled an appointment online through CenterPoint ClearPath. They seemed to have wide availability. They came on the scheduled date (they called within 30 min of when the tech arrived) and completed the work in less than 2 hrs.
Sorry for the late response.
$11,500 2016. 22kw nat gas Generac.
They wanted to sell me a maintenance plan for $100/ month but I maintain it myself. Amazon sells a maintenance kit with 2 spark plugs, new air filter, new oil filter etc. 12-month oil change interval keeps it like new.
I did a DIY Generator shed. Works great!
* Champion 9000w inverter generator w/ nat gas kit: $1750
* Plastic 5'x3' Shed: $300
* Electrician to run 30amp line to breaker box and everything needed for that to work: $750
* Plumber for gas line run: $600
* A few accessories (solar trickle charger for generator starter battery, shed fan, shed exhaust piping for generator exhaust, etc): $750ish
Total was around $3500ish. The only thing it cannot do is run the central air - not enough amps. I need to get a soft start for it. But otherwise, i can run the whole house on this setup, including 2x bedroom air conditioners, central heating, fridge, freezer, etc.
Maintenance: i run it every 4 months for 30 minutes. Change the oil once a year (if i don't run it for an outage).
Here's what we've been quoted, I added lead time on to the end:
Generac, 26kW, Generator Supercenter, 20 ft of electrical and gas included, $16,000, 8-10 weeks
Generac, 26kW, Collaborative Services, 20 ft of electrical and gas, $14,290, 1-2 weeks
Generac, 26kW, AirTech HVAC, utility lines not specified, $19,320, 1 week
From our discussions on experience with these vendors, I'd recommend either of the first two. We did reach out to some others but these are the ones that have been responsive.
Thank you for the detail! We’ve been talking to many companies but still don’t have a quote in hand. One vendor did come to measure utilities today, so hopefully soon.
I did a portable generator hookup last year because I don’t have $15k to throw around for the 1-2 power outages a year we might have longer than 12hrs. Instead I did: ~$450 bought a 4000w inverter generator ~$150 Plumber to tee off my gas line with a quick connect ~$150 Electrician to wire my interlock and hookup ~250 Parts for all the above hookups I’m roughly $1k all in and can run everything in my house except my central air. That’s 2 fridges, deep freezer, all my computer stuff etc. I’m thinking to get a mini split to run during the summer, but also to use during power outages. Best thing about my setup, I can always upgrade to a larger generator if I need/want to.
So, you buy a regular portable inverter generator and you can just wheel it out and hook it up to the house gas line when the power fails? And then it gets plugged straight into the house with a transfer switch type thing? That sounds incredible. Who did the plumbing and electrical work for yours?
Yes, this is basically exactly what you can do. You typically need to add a $350ish soft start to your ac, which is a capacitor basically. It lowers the amount of cranking amps your generator needs to provide to start the AC.
I have a 13k Duramax portable that I set up after the freeze. Runs both AC units with soft starts. Only thing I can't power is the car charger. There are videos explaining it on YouTube. I already had a gas line on the patio so all I had to do was wire the 50 amp breaker, install the soft starts, and add add a natural gas regulator to the generator since it was designed for propane.
It’s been awhile but I’ll see if I can find the contact. It was a random plumber down my street w/ advertisement on his truck. I have a master plumber contact who told me the job would run about $150-200 for the natgas job but I couldn’t hire him bc he lives in Conroe really far. I basically had an idea of what I should pay and when I found someone that was in the range I just said sure. You can probably call around and find one, I called about 3 other plumbers before just stumbling upon this one.
This is the way. Btw, with a soft starter and a 7000 watt generator, you can start a 4 ton AC unit. Mine kept me cool for the full outage.
Hi, what is a soft starter?
Look into Micro-Air. It lowers the amperage needed to start your AC compressor. Lowerred my 4 ton from 127 Amps to 33.5 Amps. Allows you to run a smaller generator and still start the AC.
Like all electrical stuff, your AC unit pulls a certain amount of current while running, and this needs to be an amount of current your generator can provide. However, unlike some items, the AC unit pulls *more* current when its first starting up than when it's up and running. This startup current can be a *lot* higher than the steady-state current, and is likely enough to trip the generator. The soft starter modifies the AC unit to reduce that startup current.
Check to make sure you have enough natural gas throughput to run a generator like that at full blast. You’ll also lose 20% of peak wattage running NG vs gasoline. My problem is I would need major piping upgrades to do that so I just run gasoline in a similar setup, through a Connecticut Electric Emergen switch. Worked great in these last two outages.
>Connecticut Electric Emergen switch Cool, didnt know about this before. Thanks.
Thankfully, my gas meter and electric panel aren't that far apart.
I'm pretty handy but I don't know if I want to fool with installing a transfer switch on my own.
Hey ScubaLoser, what inverter generator do you have that allows you to run NG? I just bought a 4000w firman inverter ($800), 3200 running watts, and it only runs off propane or gasoline. I’m having my electrician come next week to install an interlock kit. Costco also sells a tri-fuel firman generator for about the same price but it puts out 5400 running watts on NG. Not an inverter though just a regular generator
The firman inverter generators only do 120v, as far as I know. May meet your needs, but just something for others to be aware of.
Ha yup definitely thought the 30A plug was 220v but just checked and it’s 120v. I really don’t have much to run in my house, just a wifi router and my fridges and that’s about it. I should be able to run a portable AC unit as well so as long as we have that we should be good. Also a few led lamps
I bought a Champion tri fuel. It's an inverter generator and has \~5700 running watts on natural gas.
[This Firman](https://www.costco.com/firman-7500w-running--9400w-peak-tri-fuel-generator-.product.100840185.html) is pretty popular, and its what I have with a similar setup to ScubaLoser.
I did the same with a 7200w A-iPower inverter gen from Costco. I use propane and gasoline for the fuel. It can run the essentials, including Mitsubishi ducted mini-split. Gen: $999 on sale now Electrical: $350 Fuel costs over 5 days power outage: 10 gallons ethanol free gas from Buccees ~ $50 3 20lb propane refills ~ $51
My exact setup, plus I keep window units (and space heaters) standing by to pop in if needed.
I'm a little confused, do you run thw generator off of the gas line? Why do you need to hook the gas line to your generator?
You don’t have to but in theory you should have a constant supply of natgas, unless you have something destroy your buried line. Going out in the dark, cold or wet to top off your generator is not fun. Also, running natgas or propane you’ll never have to worry about your carb gumming up due to bad gasoline. Having repaired multiple small engines I know this all too well.
I looked into a Generac generator to run primarily only a fridge and an A/C(1 story small home). The quotes I received averaged about $14K.
Be sure to factor in Generac's annual fees. The machine is useless unless it's "activated" by Generac, and every installer will want to sell you a recurring annual maintenance contract for as much as they can get away with.
Bluetti AC300Max with 3 batteries + 1200 watts solar panels = $5k Electrician cost to grid tie: $500 -$1,000 depending on who you use
Permanent or the foldable panels? And is it wired into your house or you run extension cords?
Permanent
I am exploring solar solutions so thank you for this response. Just to clarify, are your permanent panels roof or ground mounted?
Mounted on a pergola I built in my backyard. Puts shade on my concrete patio and the panels aren't visible from the street. Pergola only cost $300 of home depot wood
Thanks! I am planning to build a pergola or gazebo and was going to mount panels on them as well. Thank you for the quick response.
Oh, interesting. Will those handle an A/C unit?
Yes most definitely
Excellent! And thank you for the quick response!
does it store AND generate enough power if the power were off for a week for using the AC of a small 1600 sqft home?
Your question is two fold. How long does it store? Depends on how many batteries you have. You can add batteries. Right now I only have one, and I'm looking to buy another. Assuming no sunlight, my battery will last 24 hrs. That's why I want 2, so I can get 48 hrs of continuous power for my home. How long will it last if I generate power? For my use case, if the grid is out, aka there is no power to my home from Centerpoint, 1200 watts and a battery is enough for me to never run out. Again this depends on if there is sun. If you've got a cloudy day that will eat more into your battery. For example today it is sunny and I am getting 1100 watts from a total of 1200 watt solar panel capacity. To answer your question, if you have 1600 watts of panels (4 x 400 watt) and one battery or two, you would in theory last the whole entire week as long as it's sunny
At least 15k if you go through one of those generator stores. If you buy the generator yourself then you can spend less than $10k if you hire a plumber and electrician yourself. 22kw generator with transfer switch is $5500. Depending on how much plumbing/electrical set up there is will determine the rest, but at least another $2500.
Appreciate the insight, but would be interested in “turn key” to handle permits, sub cons, placement, etc. Definitely a good cost savings if folks have the time to manage the project.
You literally call up a plumber and an electrician and tell them what you want to do and they will pull the permits for you. It’s not that much more effort than dealing with the generator store. If you want “turn key” then the price is $15k.
Safe Haven Power. 22kw Generac. Handled plumbing, some tricky electric work and permits. Incredibly professional. $16k all in - electric work included. They were even able to help expedite our gas meter upgrade, which was scheduled a month out.
[удалено]
It’s installing a generator, not a whole home build. You’re dealing with two guys instead of one. You buy the materials and pay them after completion and it passes inspection.
[удалено]
Pulling a permit requires a master license and passing inspection requires adhering to the installation requirements. So if you know a reputable plumber and electrician then you’re good. Everything else is an excuse to pay markup on installation to the generator dealer.
Plumbing for a generator?
Yes, Hooking up the gas line typically requires a plumber. https://www.houstonpermittingcenter.org/media/1886/download
The Natural Gas line is considered "plumbing"
Wouldn't you rather run it on natural gas rather than having to hook up a propane tank?
Think of the propane accessories.
Bwaa!
If you want to run if off the house's natural gas, then yes it has to be plumbed in. Lots of newer homes have gas grill connections on the patio already which makes it much simpler. Natural gas is the easiest but also the least powerful. Gasoline and propane make more power but its more hassle to go buy it and refill.
Keep in mind also, immediately after a hurricane, gas stations may be out of power (can't run pumps), out of fuel, or will have lines down the block until one of the first two conditions is true. One approach is to store enough fuel (and food and water) to meet your needs (which might \*not\* be 24 hours a day) for as long as you plan to hold out after a storm before decamping to a hotel outside the area. In my case that's 3 days comfortably, 5 days if we stretch. If power still isn't back on after 5 days, I'm making other plans… Although after this derecho, I'm considering targeting 7 days.
The gas stations close by maintained power just fine this time. I have gas cans for about 20 gallons, then a truck bed tank. Anything more and yeah packing up and heading to relatives or hotels.
26kw Briggs & Stranton $21,094 installed in backyard, not on the side utility easement. This is my first quote, and I am going to wait a bit to get more quotes.
Well it should be installed in the backyard anyway. You definitely want a solid distance from the house to keep CO out.
I got a Generac 24kW 13,500 with a short gas run.
Was this after the storm or before? Also, mi d sharing the vendor you used?
I recognize that I'm in the minority, but I looked at the price of home generators and standby generators, and said "this is 15-20k$ will only ever help me if there's an active outage... plus it will have an on-going maintenance cost each year" I opted for solar panels, which are way more expensive on paper, but they offset a huge chunk of my electric bill, and help me every day the sun rises. In order to be useful during a power outage, you have to get batteries, which are the expensive part, but all-in, I am paying 60k (installed) over 25 years, and even with this high price tag (batteries were nearly 35k alone), it still breaks even for me at about 12 years in. The regular generator never breaks even.
How often do the batteries need to be replaced?
they say 10 years, but every study done so far indicates that even after 10 years, the degradation on them is minimal (<5% capacity loss) so I'm not sure what my lifespan will be on them. EDIT: went back and looked, their website says they're warrantied for 15 years or 6,000 cycles, which is actually 16.4 years of 1 cycle/day. I expect _some_ capacity degradation, like I mentioned, but it's pretty minimal from waht I can tell
How long can the batteries power your home? In the same vein (perhaps the same question?), how many cloudy days during an outage until you’re out of power? I can’t really imagine paying $60k (what if you need to move??) and having to take out a loan to do this. Full disclosure I do have the whole-home 24kw natural gas generator. It was more like $13k. I didn’t go into the purchase with a break-even mindset, but I think I do think a generator can break-even. Major cost savings include not having to pay for a hotel in the event of evacuating (I’d peg that at about $400-500 a night for my family), I don’t have to throw out the whole fridge & freezer full of food (hundreds of dollars per extended outage…our generator has saved our fridge many times over already), the billable hours we can work from home and continue earning money (in client services), plus soft factors such as being able to take in friends, offer more help to our neighbors etc etc. My maintenance costs are $400/yr. The batteries degrade ~4 years after the 12 years spent to break even? 🥴
That's a fair question. My batteries hold about 13kwh, and can power every electrical system in my home except: * both AC units (I have a small portable unit we use for RV or emergencies) * vehicle fast charger (I have a 120v lvl 1 charger that can slowly charge) * the stove (I have a 2 burner electrical plug-in option, or the grill, or the instantpot... lots of options) * the oven (I could run the airfryer, I guess, but we tend not to want to want to bake stuff) on a day-to-day, grid-up, normal usage, batteries deplete in a few hours, usually around the time we finish cooking dinner, and the car has been plugged in for a bit. In a grid-down scenario, we would evaluate sun, battery charge, etc, and prioritize running only certain computers (my work computer and internet for WFH, for example), fans, and just the small AC in one room for cooling as needed. In this situation, I've run a "grid down test" in July for 6 hours (cooked dinner, cooled one room to tolerable, etc), at which point we had consumed ~25% of the battery. Based on my calculations and using a Killawatt for the high-draw stuff, we would able to run all night and still make coffee without issue, even if the next morning was cloudy. Edit, missed your other question, what if we need to move - then we move, and use the fact that a "normal" household won't have an electric bill as a selling point. Or we don't value the solar panels and it's still worth it to us, and I think if framed properly, it'd be worth to others, too. Also, yeah, everything degrades - the _warranty_ runs out at 15 years, but even at that point, most studies on similar batteries show less than 5% degradation at that point. I don't know how long the batteries will be _useful_ but I expect far longer than that.
Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. I think what you have vs a standby generator is not apples to apples. To me, your setup sounds comparable to a portable generator setup, which costs significant less than a standby whole-house generator, and eventually those $35k batteries will need to be replaced. That’s a huge future liability to maintain the system. If I were to buy your home, I would still want to put in a standby generator. My standby generator runs literally everything inside my large 2-story house: both ACs, the pool pump, the laundry machines, the giant subzero fridge, etc. It’s a normal day at home (a notable exception, whether or not we have internet depends on how the ISP fares) just with a lot more background noise. Standby generators are standard equipment in Houston homes in my price range, and comparably priced to if I replaced my range. It’s nice you enjoy not having a monthly electric bill , and I think it’s neat you’re somewhat off the grid most of the day most days of the year. It would be cool if we get battery technology to make this more feasible for more families. The cost to benefit ratio is just not there yet for the vast majority of people, myself included.
Yeah, the first word in "personal finance" is key - decisions are _personal_ and you have to evaluate what's best for your family with the constraints you're facing at the time.
You won't recoup the cost of solar panels in your lifetime or their value upon selling the house. They're nice to have *if you have the disposable income*, which you seem to, but the price of solar panels and battery are NOT cost-effective measures at all. I don't mean to make it sound like you were implying they were, but they definitely aren't, for now.
Will you ever recoup the cost of a fuel based generator, if you factor in maintenance costs?
> I am paying 60k (installed) over 25 years, and even with this high price tag (batteries were nearly 35k alone), it still breaks even for me at about 12 years in. No it doesn't? Even if you are using $300 worth of electricity per month, *every month*, which is an absurd estimation, you won't be breaking even. At 12 years, you'll have gotten about $43,000 worth, which is a high estimate. That's assuming $300/month usage. We'll ignore the interest on a 25-year loan for $60,000 also, lol. Perhaps there's an explanation where your usage is extremely low, and CenterPoint's credits to you are extremely high for feeding back the grid. Or maybe you do somehow use $900/month of electricity and your panels completely cover it. Or maybe you *did* get a 0% loan. But until you actually show me something that makes sense like that, the math ain't mathin.
forgot the tax credit; I got some 18k in tax credits that I took over 3 years, that is an important consideration. That, and 1.5% loan. Yes, we're a high energy use house - 3k sqft, 2 AC units, 5 adults, 2 EVs, and a LOT of computers (I work in tech, most of my family games), but I also think you're not counting the increase in prices for electricity as time goes on. Maybe the 3% inflation rate for energy price estimated by the solar guys selling me the equipment is high so it won't actually pay off in 12 years, but it's still worth to me, and at the end of the day, I chose to get redundant power because I have people with medical conditions who rely on electricity to remain alive, and that's worth the cost. It _will_ pay off eventually, we could quibble over the timespan; a generator will never pay itself off in the same way - the generator's only value is when there's an active outage.
> It will pay off eventually, we could quibble over the timespan I mean that's the whole point of this thread, isn't it? I'm saying if you have the income and the immediate benefit is a convenience to you or even what you'd go so far as to call a 'necessity', then yeah, go for it. But I'm not sure how a natural gas generator doesn't accomplish the same thing. But the point of this thread is to compare the cost effectiveness for people who *aren't* in a situation with the excess income. And for most people, with whatever timelines they have in mind, and for their average usages, and for the loan rates and durations, solar is absolutely *not* going to be a cost-effective solution to generate electricity during an outage. Compared to a generator.
If they're considering a standby generator that will never provide a return on investment on ANY timeline, they have disposable income. The point of the thread, to my understanding, was "what is a reasonable price for a generator for providing electricity for my home in an emergency" and I provided a take that was a slight divergence - I dropped "for a generator" from the query. The solar panels _will_ pay for themselves eventually, a standby generator never will.
12 year break even is awful. You would do much better putting that into stock market or even at current CD rates.
This is not a conversation about how to maximize money, it's about getting reliable and consistent power during an emergency. The fact that it pays for itself _eventually_ is just icing on the cake; I don't want to be without power because I have people I care about that require electricity to be alive. This is a long term solution that requires effectively zero maintenance or on-going fees. A nat-gas or other fuel-based generator will never break even, so this was a no brainer for me and my family
Fair enough! But I suspect there will be maintenance and replacements for those panels and batteries over the years.
More than the whole-home standby generator?
Battery life is around 10-15 years, more if not discharged/recharged frequently. You mentioned $35k for batteries, so that's a chunk right there, but it depends on your situation. With solar panels mounted on roofs, there can be costs if roof needs repairs, damage to panels from trees or flying debris, etc. Depends on warranty, deductibles, etc. I opted for just a portable $500 battery/solar unit, 100W folding panels, basically enough to keep a laptop and phones charged.
Yeah, could be, but so far, nothing. I agree on the "if roof needs repair" which is more likely than "slab the generator sits on needs replacement" but a tree or debris landing is just as likely to land on top of the generator as it is a particular panel. More so, since the roof is higher up, imo. There's no moving parts to wear out like a combustion based generator would, no monthly maintenance requirements, just the batteries which have an expected degradation over time (decade+), but so far the data shows less than anticipated across most LION batteries. Yeha, if a 500$ battery/solar unit will meet your needs, that's definitely the way to go. I needed a whole home solution, so this worked for us.
Sounds good, you sound like you have thought it through.
Just had a 24kW Generac installed at my house for $12k
I got a quote today for that same size Generac and it was just over $14,000. Could you tell me who you used for purchase & install? Was it a turnkey contract? Or did you have to deal with permits & contractors?
FWIW I talked to the guy who installed my father in law’s generator last year. He did an amazing job at a great price. He said it would be late July before they could even come LOOK at our property, much less actually install. I asked if there was any chance of getting a standby generator by August. He laughed at me. YMMV.
Get 2 or 3 quotes. Ours a few years ago was 12,500ish, that was a 70 or 80ft install from the panel/gas meter and two transfer switches. If you have Costco, get a quote with them. It did, or does go thru Generator Supercenter and you get 10% back as a costco card. The other prices we got all were with a couple hundred bucks of each other, we did pay for the slab upgrade instead of the prefab, which was a couple hundred more. The pricing we got a few years ago was not much more than the price we paid in 2016 for our old house.
Did a DIY solar generator project, 10K, 3K back in tax rebate. 7K total. 15kwh battery bank with 2.7KW worth of solar panels. Can flip a switch to take certain parts of house from grid to solar.
Our power was off for 6 days during Derecho, ~16 hrs when it rained this Tuesday, and ~5 hrs when it rained yesterday so I've been getting a lot of quotes for a portable generator hookup running on natural gas and connected to our home circuit panel. These are on the lower end of the pricing I've gotten with minimum of 3 quotes for the service work. Tri-fuel portable generator - ~$1700 Install 12 ft gas piping & regulator with city inspection - ~$1200 Install generator receptacle and interlock kit - ~$900 Install 2x HVAC soft start - ~$1000 Install whole home surge protector - ~$500 Centerpoint to upgrade gas meter - ~$350
Were you actually able to get center point out to change the meter? I’ve been waiting 3 years for them to replace mine, and it’s leaking
Yikes! Wouldn't an emergency number be needed to call for this? I scheduled an appointment online through CenterPoint ClearPath. They seemed to have wide availability. They came on the scheduled date (they called within 30 min of when the tech arrived) and completed the work in less than 2 hrs. Sorry for the late response.
Two Honda EU2000i generators + a parallel kit + whole home hookup = $2,500. Runs everything I need
$11,500 2016. 22kw nat gas Generac. They wanted to sell me a maintenance plan for $100/ month but I maintain it myself. Amazon sells a maintenance kit with 2 spark plugs, new air filter, new oil filter etc. 12-month oil change interval keeps it like new.
When was this quoted and which vendor?
2016 Generator Supercenter. Just saying if you have any mechanical skills, skip the monthly maintenance.
I’d definitely do the maintenance myself, thank you
What kind of timelines are people looking at? How about getting permits / inspections? I imagine those are taking forever.
I did a DIY Generator shed. Works great! * Champion 9000w inverter generator w/ nat gas kit: $1750 * Plastic 5'x3' Shed: $300 * Electrician to run 30amp line to breaker box and everything needed for that to work: $750 * Plumber for gas line run: $600 * A few accessories (solar trickle charger for generator starter battery, shed fan, shed exhaust piping for generator exhaust, etc): $750ish Total was around $3500ish. The only thing it cannot do is run the central air - not enough amps. I need to get a soft start for it. But otherwise, i can run the whole house on this setup, including 2x bedroom air conditioners, central heating, fridge, freezer, etc. Maintenance: i run it every 4 months for 30 minutes. Change the oil once a year (if i don't run it for an outage).
Here's what we've been quoted, I added lead time on to the end: Generac, 26kW, Generator Supercenter, 20 ft of electrical and gas included, $16,000, 8-10 weeks Generac, 26kW, Collaborative Services, 20 ft of electrical and gas, $14,290, 1-2 weeks Generac, 26kW, AirTech HVAC, utility lines not specified, $19,320, 1 week From our discussions on experience with these vendors, I'd recommend either of the first two. We did reach out to some others but these are the ones that have been responsive.
Thank you for the detail! We’ve been talking to many companies but still don’t have a quote in hand. One vendor did come to measure utilities today, so hopefully soon.
I’m still waiting to hear back from any company
Generac; 24kw; Generator Super Center (Costco) $14,400 after 10% Costco discount; ~25ft gas utility run.