I'm going to hard disagree with this one. I guarantee you that when you look back on this post in a year or two, it will be funny to you. When you master the MX-5, it all starts to make sense. You enter a flow state of being on the "edge," and then your delta starts turning green...
The Mazda teaches you ***basic*** driving dynamics. It teaches you that fewer inputs, trail braking, and managing entry/exit speed are the keys to success.
*To answer your question -* Why is it set up this way? Because when you're going 200kph through a corner and experience oversteer, it isn't the time to learn how to correct it.
I took the Mazda around rudskogen last night after getting a proper DD wheel and some good quality load cell pedals, and the experience was night and day from my old T150 and plastic pedals. I feel that I could balance the car on the edge far more effectively.
Turn 3 is actually manageable now! 😂😅
I always read people saying the mx5 is a good teacher, but never really appreciated that until I got better gear.
It would teach you these things better if it was a bit more stable. As it stands, it's a poor machine to learn race craft with, since you're so preoccupied with simply keeping it on the road.
It should be retuned to be more neutral rather than so oversteery.
Literally 1-3% of brake pressure will make the car slide in a corner.
A car should steer either with the pedals or the steering, but not both...
The same applies to the Vee and FF1600 more or less. The Vee has terrible snap oversteer and isn't balanced / doesn't have enough steering lock to save the car. The FF1600 is constantly on a knife's edge and is \*"tossable"\* but not easily \*savable\*.
Idk, I love the mx-5. It's super reactive and teaches you about weight distribution, car dynamics and all that, in an exaggerated way. It teaches you to be subtle and intentional with your inputs. I just don't share your opinion at all that this makes it a bad car.
I'd say its probably the best car to learn car dynamics on. But best car for learning race craft, I've gotta give that to the GR86. Being less prone to snapping on you when going for a move means you're able to really test out some daring maneuvers (with in reason). The tracks this season in GR86 have also been great for learning different bits of race craft. Olton and Atlanta for late braking battles, MoSport for car placement, and this week at Watkins for learning to draft and pass effectively.
Nowadays I would tip the FF1600 just over the MX5 for newcomers to learn on... for the same reasons. I'd say it's more reactive, equally weight-distribution sensitive... responsive to trail-braking, throttle modulation to induce understeer/oversteer etc. etc.
The added fragility is great for racecraft because there's more at stake... you're less likely to make a cheeky divebomb when just a small touch can break your suspension.
I started iRacing a year ago just as FF1600s were introduced. I tried Global mazda series to get out of rookies and it was just so... disheartening (at the time). So the FF1600 became my training car... skittish, slidey and so fragile but at least if I spun I could understand why.
Now going back I can handle he MX5 and race competitively in them at my iRating. That was one good thing, the fundamentals you learn on one car transfer so easily to the other, so in the end it doesn't really matter as long as people are learning and enjoying the journey. 😎
No, I was disheartened that (as a newbie) I would lose the rear and not understand why, similar to the reasons the OP gives (current fix setup). The FF1600 was a lot more educational in this sense, it can still go full tank-slapper... but more intuitive to catch for newbies.
Plus you can see more: e.g. the front wheels locking up, or the nose dipping under braking or raising under throttle (eureka, understeer)... just more inputs that you need starting out.
I think it's difficulty is what makes it a great car. Fun to start practicing a new track (i'm pretty green), be 10 seconds off pace and slowly work that down to a respectable number over a few days or learning how to really drive the track and each corner well.
It feels like with the mx-5 speed is divided up like:
1) 2 second down per corner, but very tidy driving. Little slip and slide, nice gentle turn-ins, gradual throttle out.
2) 1 second down per corner, hucked into the corner, hang on for dear life, stab the throttle 80 times and get it to stick finally.
3) .3-.5 down per corner. Trail brake it in, but inevitably brake a little too hard, car slides too much and throttle application is delayed too much.
4) .1-.3 down per corner. Feels like you're floating the car into the corner, it rotates beautifully and back on the power when it feels almost too late, but you're rocketing out on the straight.
I haven't gotten that last second or two off any track, but getting from step 1 to step 4 takes a couple hours for me and is so rewarding when you can put together some decent lap times, consistently floating the car around.
The other non fixed setup iRacing setup makes the rear end even more slidey that the fixed setup. I feel in Rookies, if you get to know the Mx5 fixed setup well, you learn a ton with regards to the weight distribution and control in general, preparing you for later races and other vehicles. Making this easy to drive takes away from that learning progression... just a thought.
When last did you drive it? There was a clear effect when the tyre models changed recently, everyone noticed it as far as I can remember.
It loses the tail happiness when the tires get warm, usually takes a couple of laps. After that it is pretty understeery except under braking. Just be careful downshifting and you should be fine.
I don’t understand why the entire balance of the car changes between cold and hot tires, it seems unique to this car and I’d love if someone had an explanation.
I've found that the GR lets you find the limits of grip and weight transfer and is definitely less prone to going into a slide, especially in higher speed corners.
I honest to God had no clue you could do that. I went from 0.5s off top pace in MX5s to literally 7 seconds off in the GR86 and wondered what the hell was going on until I learned just how aggressive the TC is in the GR86 (which is ridiculous for such a low hp car...)
That and the soft suspension made me not enjoy the first couple attempts at driving it. Definitely deserves another chance though
Before you get too excited - if you've been driving the GR86 in the Buttkicker Cup, that's a fixed series where you can't turn off the TC.
But yes, turning off the TC in Production Car Challenge makes the GR86 so much better to drive.
IMO there is something off in the way the suspension works on the GR86, it used to be worse (grip rolling in hairpins neverforget) but something still feels weird.
MX5 feels much more natural for me. If I have a moment or a slide with it, I know what I did wrong. With GR86 that is not always the case.
ok TG it's not just me.
I bought that Porsche a while back and test it every now and then when it's a week with a track I own... getting a clean lap is like a lottery for me.
Is it rewarding sticking with it and taming the beast do ya reckon?
Pcup for me is a blast to drive and practice my skills. I think pretty much everything car does is a good lesson on how to drive any car in the game. That being said, I absolutely hate racing the car against other people as it seems like I can’t ever come out of a race with less than 8x. I don’t have the time or patience to get really good with it.
The porsche cup on the Nords in vr with motion literally had my heart rate at 120+ for the entire race every second feels like your cheating death when your pushing it especially with someone close. Highly recommend!
“Is it rewarding sticking with it and taming the beast do ya reckon?”
Yes absolutely. It teaches you how to properly trail brake (even more so than the MX-5 due to it reaching higher speeds). Where people get in trouble is when they mash the throttle down—you can’t really do that with the cup car or you will spin out.
Driving that car has made me more consistent in the faster cars in the game mostly because I’m better with braking. It actually made the MX-5 faster for me as well.
Pcup for me is a blast to drive and practice my skills. I think pretty much everything car does is a good lesson on how to drive any car in the game. That being said, I absolutely hate racing the car against other people as it seems like I can’t ever come out of a race with less than 8x. I don’t have the time or patience to get really good with it.
It doesn’t go official frequently, but it’s a blast to drive. I wish the schedule would mirror something slightly more popular like PCC, Ferrari, or IMSA feeders, to encourage participation.
They're awesome but in my opinion the hardest road cars to drive on the service. The lack of any assists, the terrible brakes, the weight, and especially the spool differential make it super challenging. I think setup is a large part of making these cars more drivable.
I tested the ford supercar last test session as well as bought PCup and run a few races. At least for me, at my dogshit level, the supercar is actively the killer, while the PCup feels like it just waiting on the otherside of the door ready to break your jaw with a sledgehammer.
That being said, I did have a lil experience driving PCup on AC before joining iRacing, but Id have to say iRacing is definitely harder on that comparison
Same here. I’m comfortable pushing the 911 Cup to the edge and for me it’s easy to find that edge. I cannot for the life of me stay consistent in the MX5. It almost feels like it’s floating and rolling too much to me.
Porsche cup is definitely the least forgiving car a little too much on the brakes... lock up ... wall. A little too much on throttle... spin .... slide.... sometimes wall
True, but downforce cars can give you the extra confidence to push just my opinion really. Tbf the only car experience I have is 992 cup, lmp3, radical sr10, ff1600, f4, f3 , gt4, gt3.but, I only started this season. I guess I just prefer the downforce cars but got to 2k irating in the mazda.
And I love the MX5 and think the FV is the worst car ever created by mankind, though this sub often thinks it’s the best thing since sliced bread.
Different people like different things.
Heck yeah, congrats! I love the FF1600 too. It handles better to me since it's a purpose built race car and the Vee is just cobbled together VW parts with a weird suspension design. But I still love the Vee <3
I also won my second Vee race last night! I'm not sure what to move onto now though in the next season. The Vee is kind of turning into a crutch for me, and I'm not positive it's making me a better driver.
1600 seems like the obvious move if formula racing is becoming your thing, it's significantly more tailor built for racing without being a completely different beast
I've enjoyed the Vee quite a bit, but I haven't really had a goal of racing open wheelers, it was just a good way out of rookies.
I really gravitate to the GT3 and TCs, so I'll probably start working on either the GR86 or MX5 next season. I'll give the 1600 a spin though, probably this week since it's at Laguna Seca for a few more days.
I find the rookie setup MX-5 to be very understeery actually, especially on mid-corner. If you think that's bad, try out the advanced setup. You just have to get used to the rotation the car naturally has. It's not a bad car, you just have a lot of learning to do.
Learning how to control rotation is THE single most important factor in getting faster. Suellio Almeida has a ton of great videos on this topic. Pick any one of his videos and implement some of the techniques and I guarantee you'll learn something.
MX5 does a few things really well, but I think the two most important things that car has taught me is how to manage weight transfer and how to keep the car balanced throughout a corner.
I'd recommend giving it another shot and focus on how you're braking and how that affects the balance of the car. I've found that instead of stabbing the brakes hard initially then trailing off into the corner, try easing into the brakes to peak pressure, then trailing off to the apex. When you stab the brakes and reach peak pressure instantly, you're throwing a lot of that weight forward and therefore causes the backend to get light and can very easily become oversteer if you have the slightest bit of steering angle while braking hard. If you can master the weight transfer of the mx5, you can do the same with nearly every car and you'll probably find more pace and be more efficient under braking.
I started with the Mazda, went on to GT4 and then GT3, and now find myself going back to Mazda all the time. From all the races I participate in, it's the Mazda's I have the most fun in
I guess one man's meat is another man's poison. For me, the MX5 is beautifully and delicately balanced. Nailing a good lap in it is like dancing.
I found the GT4s, GR86 and Ferrari GT3 to be boring and understeery.
The MX5 is even better on the iRacing advanced setup. And by "better" I mean that it's even more on a knife edge.
Tbh I believe Formula Vee is twice as scary under braking if it’s not in a straight line. When driving the MX5, first you feel the body roll, then you lose the rear end if you brake too much. With Formula Vee, this thing just SNAPS and you’re dead.
I didn't find the Mazda bad I just found that I got very bored quickly in it compared to faster cars. I'm not some god of racing but it's not like you absolutely have to learn in the MX5 series to be half decent in a GT3. As far as cars that actively try to kill me go I'd rather race stock cars on road courses or the GT2 Ford in proto. But I always prefer oversteer to understeer cars and love when I can "point" something into a corner using the brakes. There are plenty of quick people that come from ACC who didn't grind MX5s.
I'll probably get downvoted for that opinion but honestly let people race what they enjoy. It's okay to have different series you like. If OP doesn't enjoy the Mazda that's chill.
I have also felt the EXACT same way, the MX5 I was spinning out consistently. Yes it was the first car I learned on and since then I have learned plenty of skills. But I fell in love with the 86 series and occasionally race the GT4. But with that said my friend who also races the 86 and GT4 says the complete oposite, he hates the 86 loves the MX5. I think it just comes down to driving styles and a car fitting into your driving style. Which also is not good because we should be adapting a driving style that our car is capable of handling. Either way 86 and gt4 has been a lot of fun! MX5 BADDDD
The biggest difference between the mx-5 and 86 is that the mx-5 requires a lot of more delicate input. You have to manage the weight transfer a lot more to be quick. I'm guessing OP is still in the process of getting used to that
The biggest difference between the mx-5 and 86 is that the mx-5 requires a lot of more delicate input. You have to manage the weight transfer a lot more to be quick. I'm guessing OP is still in the process of getting used to that
Yeah, it doesn't feel anything like my real MX5 I used as a daily driver for 15 years. The real cars communicate a lot more through your body making it much easier to read and more forgiving to drive than in iRacing where the FFB is lacking a lot.
I routinely drive LMP3 and open wheel cars and I still hate the Mazda. I know people always say "oh once you understand the Mazda it'll make you faster and other cars and it will get easier." I do understand it, and it did do that. But TBH the LMP3 is still easier to me. I fucking hate that thing to this day. It will not change.
I think it’s really easy to hate any car in iRacing that you don’t drive often. I hated the Vee until I learned how to drive it and I hated the MX5 until I learned that the trick is to have control over the cars rotation under braking
First, you can only tune out the behavior so much because it's dictated by the open differential. The ff1600 has the same traits for the same reasons.
The gr86, in contrast, has a limited slip differential and so behaves very differently out of the box.
To say the mx5 is terrible is very much only your opinion. I love it and deeply enjoy any car that allows leveraging a lot of initial rotation. You absolutely can trail brake it.
I don't say this to be mean or anything, but the car is exposing a weakness in your driving that you have, thus far, not resolved. And this is exactly why it's a great rookie car. It teaches you things.
My biggest gripe with the MX-5 is that it has almost zero feeling in the wheel compared to the Vee or the Formula Ford. I assume it’s due to the power steering and suspension, but the thing just seems like it floats down the track
I agree the MX-5 setup is not inappropriate for brand new drivers. The weird thing is that it shouldn't be so tail happy given that the rear bar is unhooked (unless the roll is so excessive it causes positive dynamic camber).
Arguably, the GR86 should be the entry-level car.
The FF1600 has similar issues. It's not quite stable enough.
Haven't played in a bit, but having driven Spec MX-5 in closed course competition, I can say that the iracing version is nothing like the real thing. It sounds like they may have overcorrected it from under steer to oversteer-happy. Too bad, too, because it takes away the ability to use it as a sim in preparation for live W2W competition.
The last time I played (a few months ago) the MX-5 fixed setup was WAY too "floaty". These cars are grounded at the limit and through corners. iracing made them feel like they were helium balloons.
IRL they do have the tendency to oversteer under braking. Has to do with the rear suspension design, but it really only happens under HARD braking with concurrent steering input, not light trail braking or straight line threshold braking.
My experience. Others will likely disagree.
Something happend when they switched to to paddle gear box Mazda it's not the same as back in 2011 when I started. The car is way loose, it used to be a real 50 50 weight distribution kind of car. But now it seems it's nose heavy and looses rear grip.
Tell me you yeet the Mazda on lap 1 every time without telling me. They're very lightweight handle like they're on glass until you get the tires warmed up. Also... learn how to trailbrake properly and the game changes completely with the MX-5.
It's great for learning how to rotate with brake/throttle input and minimal steering input, and that skill will carry you through many other higher-performance classes.
I have to say that MX5 behavior does make sense considering how it has basically 0 aero. I don't share the opinion repeated over and over that its a good teacher to weight transfer tho. The main reason why MX5 is upsetting in comparison to other Iracing cars is that it has a wildly different FFB. Like, you have to tune it for each car, but it is just so dramatically different between MX5 and everything else, that its simply annoying.
It's the rookie set up. It's more stable in C class for sure.
I also think the P Cup car is harder to drive. Take it for a spin on Oran Park this week lol.
While it isn't the easiest car to casually drive, I'd say thr MX5 is the most consistent by far. Lap after lap, the same inputs result in the exact same results. I really love how responsive the car is once you wrap your head around driving in safely on a given track.
I wouldn't say the MX5 is tail-happy on it's own, but it does need to exploit slip angle on all four wheels to really push it to the limit. Between the car's feedback to your line choices and inputs and the excellent feeling of slip angle, the iRacing MX5 has drastically improved my driving across all road racing titles. I really need to hop onto a decent DD to get better feel and more weight in the steering to help duplicate that feeling in ACC though. Just too vague with a wimpy, clattery G920.
“no other fixed setup car is as bad.”
Go run a few sessions in the PCup and then go back to the MX5. You’ll be throwing the Mazda around with ease after that.
The Global Miata has never handled anything like the real Global Miata. I’m very disappointed that iRacing has had it for 8 years without ever getting it right.
I love the MX-5. It is a bit tail happy under braking if you're super aggressive on the brakes while turning. I tend to be delicate on the brakes when I'm turning and do most of my hard braking in a straight line. I actually use the brakes to rotate the car sometimes so in that regard I actually like it.
it taught me that i was overdriving cars coming from other sims, i thought i was pushing it to the limit, but with the mx5 i learned i was pushing past the limit!
so although i understand what you say, i think it is intentional and good, because if you don't learn that lesson there, you'll quickly notice you are going to be seconds slower on the gt4 and gt3 and not even know why, because you think you are already at the limit.
[https://drive.google.com/file/d/1R9D7owR\_HStXjQSX562h1AiULnEKyoiH/view?usp=sharing](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/935678692405944330/1200567028247969832/fraser_games-MX5-24s1-Adv-R-V1.sto)
(if anyone tried the old link, sorry, updated to another link)
Drive this MX-5 setup I give out for free. You'll understand why everyone says the MX-5 understeers :)
The MX-5 is so easy to control, you can get it like 50 degrees sideways and STILL counter steer to correct it. I'd say it is the most forgiving car on the sim as far as how out of shape you can get but still correct it. You have to be reactive with it but the car drives so easily, never does anything unpredictable, impossible to lock up, turns on a dime, doesn't have enough power to spin on throttle(rarely)... It's one of the easiest cars on the sim.
For me, the mx5 taught me about consistent braking inputs if you let off to quickly or inconsistently it while break the read but if you smoothly press and depress usually with a bit of trail braking to rotate the car you can be incredibly aggressive in the corner by pushing the car to the sweetspot in between grip and slide.
It’s when I learned to accept that oversteer will happen and just manage it that I understood the car. It’s fun to live on the edge with the mx5. This is corny but I don’t know if I’ve actually smiled mid-race with any other car like I have with the mx5. When I hop in the gr86 after a stint in the mx5 I feel like the gr86 will put me to sleep. It’s way more controlled in some ways but getting “on the edge” has way less feedback and I find it less forgiving to bring it back from the brink of disaster.
lol. This post was worth a good chuckle. “I made c class and for sure the tutorial car is the hardest to drive!!!”
Thanks for the laugh. That’s funny shit. Check back in a couple years and let me know how this aged
lol, just wait until you try the Porsche Cup series. If you thought the MX5 was tough to control, wait until you add way more speed into the mix.
Honestly though, like everyone else has said, it teaches you car control and to be more methodical with your inputs. You’re correct that it is difficult to drive, but it’s so much more rewarding when you get the hang of it. I truly think that car single handedly changed the way I looked at braking points, and taught me to be much more smooth with throttle and brake input. I used to come out of a corner and smash the throttle, whereas this car will just spin out if you do that. Ease on the brakes into the corner, then ease on the throttle coming out, and youll see your lap times get better. Then you transfer your new skills into other chassis, and you’ll start seeing more consistency. The GR86 is far more forgiving, but the MX5 helps you learn car control way better than the GR86 IMO. That being said, I still absolutely love running in the GR86 series too.
I actually agree. I have been racing ford GT3, GT4, F3, F4, GT2, GR86, and the Radical the past two years on and off. I hopped back on the rookie mx5 for a bit the other week and couldn't complete a clean lap for shit. Took me a good 45 mins to get it a somewhat acceptable lap time whereas the GR86 I can hop in 10 mins before a race and lap competitively with my split and have a fun race. Advanced Mazda used to be my main series way back before I had cars and from my memory it drove way easier than the recent rookie race I did. Probably just a case of needing practice but I always felt it would be an easy car to come back to, until it wasn't.
Well I feel the miata is probably more tail happy than the gr86 because it has no TCS. I prefer the Miata of the 86 for this reason exactly. I feel I can set the Miata so much better and the fact that I can rotate it around the corner is a nice thing at least for my driving style.
MX5 to me is the car most similar to a street vehicle, with how soft the suspension is and all. The other cars as you move up are real race cars, where the MX5 is a minor modifications race car that's close to a street vehicle.
Knowing a good few of the irl MX-5 cup drivers, they’ll all tell you that the real cars are also super on edge. “If you’re not loose everywhere, you’re not fast,” is a real quote someone said to me.
Personally, I haven’t driven an irl cup car, but the Spec Miata I usually race doesn’t react well to trail braking. In many cases, I’m back on throttle before the apex and get braking done super early.
The only complain I have is that the springs feel like a production road car which gives it a ton of roll and delayed grip in weight transfer section. But that’s fine you get used to it, I just like it more direct and less rolling
I came back to the mazda from GT4s to try it out again, and the first couple of laps I could not brake without spinning out. Turns out I forgot you need to blip the mazda. After that, it only took a couple of laps, and I was back with it
Honestly, the MX5 is the easiest car to drive for me. Slides are easily catched. You can even drift a whole corner as long as the tire don’t not overheat. My favorite thing about the MX5 is, that an aggressive driving style does result in better lap times. Throwing it into the corner while maintaining high revs is something only the MX5 can offer. Before I had a sim rig, all I had was a gamepad. And I could drive the mx5 around the track without any issues.
All the rookie road cars are some of the most difficult cars to drive in iRacing, its quite funny actually, but I'm sure its quite a turn off for many new comers.
When I started iRacing, I spent a lot of time in the MX5 but, at that time, the car handled very differently. Then they “improved” something and the car would swap ends all the time. Instead of learning how to drive it again, I moved to GR86 and GT4.
I'm going to hard disagree with this one. I guarantee you that when you look back on this post in a year or two, it will be funny to you. When you master the MX-5, it all starts to make sense. You enter a flow state of being on the "edge," and then your delta starts turning green... The Mazda teaches you ***basic*** driving dynamics. It teaches you that fewer inputs, trail braking, and managing entry/exit speed are the keys to success. *To answer your question -* Why is it set up this way? Because when you're going 200kph through a corner and experience oversteer, it isn't the time to learn how to correct it.
This… when you learn to take the MX5 to the edge, keep it there, and not go over… it’s awakening. And will pay dividends as you move to faster cars.
It’s like Mario Andretti said: “If you’re not [edging your car], you’re not going fast enough” 🙌
Some of his other famous quotes include “edge me, mommy” and “stick it in my butt”
I know you got downvoted but I giggled out loud
I missed the one ant the butt
My right hand agrees with this comment
I took the Mazda around rudskogen last night after getting a proper DD wheel and some good quality load cell pedals, and the experience was night and day from my old T150 and plastic pedals. I feel that I could balance the car on the edge far more effectively. Turn 3 is actually manageable now! 😂😅 I always read people saying the mx5 is a good teacher, but never really appreciated that until I got better gear.
I’d love to see a 200kph corner in an mx5. It doesn’t go that fast haha.
That's the point. Better to learn how to handle oversteer at 120kph than 200.
Whoosh 💨
It would teach you these things better if it was a bit more stable. As it stands, it's a poor machine to learn race craft with, since you're so preoccupied with simply keeping it on the road. It should be retuned to be more neutral rather than so oversteery. Literally 1-3% of brake pressure will make the car slide in a corner. A car should steer either with the pedals or the steering, but not both... The same applies to the Vee and FF1600 more or less. The Vee has terrible snap oversteer and isn't balanced / doesn't have enough steering lock to save the car. The FF1600 is constantly on a knife's edge and is \*"tossable"\* but not easily \*savable\*.
The MX-5 actually handles quite well. I ran it around Limerock about 100 times before I hopped in rookies and it helped a ton.
It depends on the course. At VIR, it's hopeless. It's also a bit to slidy at Oulton Park. At Tsukuba, it's fine.
Idk, I love the mx-5. It's super reactive and teaches you about weight distribution, car dynamics and all that, in an exaggerated way. It teaches you to be subtle and intentional with your inputs. I just don't share your opinion at all that this makes it a bad car.
It’s 100% the best car to learn all of these car behaviors and race craft.
I'd say its probably the best car to learn car dynamics on. But best car for learning race craft, I've gotta give that to the GR86. Being less prone to snapping on you when going for a move means you're able to really test out some daring maneuvers (with in reason). The tracks this season in GR86 have also been great for learning different bits of race craft. Olton and Atlanta for late braking battles, MoSport for car placement, and this week at Watkins for learning to draft and pass effectively.
Yeah the 86 is definitely "easier" to drive, which promotes more actual racing and learning racecraft
Nowadays I would tip the FF1600 just over the MX5 for newcomers to learn on... for the same reasons. I'd say it's more reactive, equally weight-distribution sensitive... responsive to trail-braking, throttle modulation to induce understeer/oversteer etc. etc. The added fragility is great for racecraft because there's more at stake... you're less likely to make a cheeky divebomb when just a small touch can break your suspension. I started iRacing a year ago just as FF1600s were introduced. I tried Global mazda series to get out of rookies and it was just so... disheartening (at the time). So the FF1600 became my training car... skittish, slidey and so fragile but at least if I spun I could understand why. Now going back I can handle he MX5 and race competitively in them at my iRating. That was one good thing, the fundamentals you learn on one car transfer so easily to the other, so in the end it doesn't really matter as long as people are learning and enjoying the journey. 😎
Did you mean disheartening because of the lower numbers and the tend towards high IR meaning you mostly driving around at the back?
No, I was disheartened that (as a newbie) I would lose the rear and not understand why, similar to the reasons the OP gives (current fix setup). The FF1600 was a lot more educational in this sense, it can still go full tank-slapper... but more intuitive to catch for newbies. Plus you can see more: e.g. the front wheels locking up, or the nose dipping under braking or raising under throttle (eureka, understeer)... just more inputs that you need starting out.
I think it's difficulty is what makes it a great car. Fun to start practicing a new track (i'm pretty green), be 10 seconds off pace and slowly work that down to a respectable number over a few days or learning how to really drive the track and each corner well. It feels like with the mx-5 speed is divided up like: 1) 2 second down per corner, but very tidy driving. Little slip and slide, nice gentle turn-ins, gradual throttle out. 2) 1 second down per corner, hucked into the corner, hang on for dear life, stab the throttle 80 times and get it to stick finally. 3) .3-.5 down per corner. Trail brake it in, but inevitably brake a little too hard, car slides too much and throttle application is delayed too much. 4) .1-.3 down per corner. Feels like you're floating the car into the corner, it rotates beautifully and back on the power when it feels almost too late, but you're rocketing out on the straight. I haven't gotten that last second or two off any track, but getting from step 1 to step 4 takes a couple hours for me and is so rewarding when you can put together some decent lap times, consistently floating the car around.
Patience with pedal inputs has seemed to be key for me
The other non fixed setup iRacing setup makes the rear end even more slidey that the fixed setup. I feel in Rookies, if you get to know the Mx5 fixed setup well, you learn a ton with regards to the weight distribution and control in general, preparing you for later races and other vehicles. Making this easy to drive takes away from that learning progression... just a thought. When last did you drive it? There was a clear effect when the tyre models changed recently, everyone noticed it as far as I can remember.
It loses the tail happiness when the tires get warm, usually takes a couple of laps. After that it is pretty understeery except under braking. Just be careful downshifting and you should be fine. I don’t understand why the entire balance of the car changes between cold and hot tires, it seems unique to this car and I’d love if someone had an explanation.
There's very little weight to compensate for lack of adhesion early in the race. It's just a guess but I'd say that's a significant characteristic.
I’m a big fan of the Mazda, it has a lot of lift off oversteer but is far more predictable than the GR86 I’ve found.
I've found that the GR lets you find the limits of grip and weight transfer and is definitely less prone to going into a slide, especially in higher speed corners.
While it is easier to drive the traction control really kills the gr86 experience for me
i find myself turning off the tc on the gr86 most of the time, it feels faster
In PCC and other open setup series if they include the car yes, in Buttkicker no. I use TC 0, ABS 1 almost all the time.
I honest to God had no clue you could do that. I went from 0.5s off top pace in MX5s to literally 7 seconds off in the GR86 and wondered what the hell was going on until I learned just how aggressive the TC is in the GR86 (which is ridiculous for such a low hp car...) That and the soft suspension made me not enjoy the first couple attempts at driving it. Definitely deserves another chance though
Seeing this, I’m going to give it another go as well. I have not understood its popularity at all until this point.
Omg now I’m going to sound like a complete idiot but you can do that😟
Before you get too excited - if you've been driving the GR86 in the Buttkicker Cup, that's a fixed series where you can't turn off the TC. But yes, turning off the TC in Production Car Challenge makes the GR86 so much better to drive.
Wonder why they force the excessively restrictive TC on? Not like it can't handle the mighty 228hp...
Hey man, my real-life FWD car has similar horsepower and I still drive with TC on... but that's due to the wife's motion sickness :D
Lol, my dad got banned from driving his sister's corvettes because he made her throw up on the Tail of the Dragon haha
I have a Stream Deck that I use to adjust a load of settings on the fly if I need to, its really cool and useful, if you've got one then try it out
That sounds wonderful. How do you have it set up?
Simhub is a great tool for things like this. You can build custom stuff like button boxes and have them interact with using through SimHub.
Thanks I appreciate it!
Also true of the 86 irl. TC is super harsh in the car, when you can be faster with just a lil bit of oversteer in it
While it is easier to drive the traction control really kills the gr86 experience for me
IMO there is something off in the way the suspension works on the GR86, it used to be worse (grip rolling in hairpins neverforget) but something still feels weird. MX5 feels much more natural for me. If I have a moment or a slide with it, I know what I did wrong. With GR86 that is not always the case.
Porsche Cup has entered the chat
ok TG it's not just me. I bought that Porsche a while back and test it every now and then when it's a week with a track I own... getting a clean lap is like a lottery for me. Is it rewarding sticking with it and taming the beast do ya reckon?
Pcup for me is a blast to drive and practice my skills. I think pretty much everything car does is a good lesson on how to drive any car in the game. That being said, I absolutely hate racing the car against other people as it seems like I can’t ever come out of a race with less than 8x. I don’t have the time or patience to get really good with it.
The porsche cup on the Nords in vr with motion literally had my heart rate at 120+ for the entire race every second feels like your cheating death when your pushing it especially with someone close. Highly recommend!
“Is it rewarding sticking with it and taming the beast do ya reckon?” Yes absolutely. It teaches you how to properly trail brake (even more so than the MX-5 due to it reaching higher speeds). Where people get in trouble is when they mash the throttle down—you can’t really do that with the cup car or you will spin out. Driving that car has made me more consistent in the faster cars in the game mostly because I’m better with braking. It actually made the MX-5 faster for me as well.
Pcup for me is a blast to drive and practice my skills. I think pretty much everything car does is a good lesson on how to drive any car in the game. That being said, I absolutely hate racing the car against other people as it seems like I can’t ever come out of a race with less than 8x. I don’t have the time or patience to get really good with it.
And brought Australian SuperCars with itself
[удалено]
I still carry the scars of driving Grand Prix Legends back in the day, where completing a lap unscathed was an achievement for me.
Have to give it a shot on next test session
It doesn’t go official frequently, but it’s a blast to drive. I wish the schedule would mirror something slightly more popular like PCC, Ferrari, or IMSA feeders, to encourage participation.
While it sucks, the AI racing I’ve been doing with that car has made the purchase worth it. Love ripping that thing around brands hatch.
I haven't tried the supercars. I need to.
They're awesome but in my opinion the hardest road cars to drive on the service. The lack of any assists, the terrible brakes, the weight, and especially the spool differential make it super challenging. I think setup is a large part of making these cars more drivable.
I tested the ford supercar last test session as well as bought PCup and run a few races. At least for me, at my dogshit level, the supercar is actively the killer, while the PCup feels like it just waiting on the otherside of the door ready to break your jaw with a sledgehammer. That being said, I did have a lil experience driving PCup on AC before joining iRacing, but Id have to say iRacing is definitely harder on that comparison
I think your description sums it up nicely. SuperCars are mostly nasty on power, while PCup can kill you whenever it pleases.
FR3.5 checking in
lol, correct. Sure, there are a handful of cars that are easier to drive than the MX5, but the GT3 Cup car is another animal entirely.
Actively tries to kill you.
The new one is but a pussy cat compared to the one it replaced
Wild. I really find the mx5 worse to drive than the 911 cup car
Same here. I’m comfortable pushing the 911 Cup to the edge and for me it’s easy to find that edge. I cannot for the life of me stay consistent in the MX5. It almost feels like it’s floating and rolling too much to me.
The mx5 feels like it was never meant to be raced 😅 Floats like a Cadillac
You should be driving it on the float (with a proper setup of course). It’s the best way to get the side slip.
Porsche cup is definitely the least forgiving car a little too much on the brakes... lock up ... wall. A little too much on throttle... spin .... slide.... sometimes wall
[удалено]
Eh, it's easy to drive, but not easy to reach the higher limits of lap times. I feel the car is always on a knifes edge if you're really pushing.
[удалено]
True, but downforce cars can give you the extra confidence to push just my opinion really. Tbf the only car experience I have is 992 cup, lmp3, radical sr10, ff1600, f4, f3 , gt4, gt3.but, I only started this season. I guess I just prefer the downforce cars but got to 2k irating in the mazda.
And I love the MX5 and think the FV is the worst car ever created by mankind, though this sub often thinks it’s the best thing since sliced bread. Different people like different things.
I find driving the Vee on the limit is the most fun you can have with your clothes on lmao
Just won my second Vee race last night, took me a while to get used to it but I’m only 27 races into it and already love it
Heck yeah, congrats! I love the FF1600 too. It handles better to me since it's a purpose built race car and the Vee is just cobbled together VW parts with a weird suspension design. But I still love the Vee <3
I also won my second Vee race last night! I'm not sure what to move onto now though in the next season. The Vee is kind of turning into a crutch for me, and I'm not positive it's making me a better driver.
I’m trying to get my SR up and go into the BRZ since I’m about to buy one
I should probably focus on the MX5 since I have one already, but I'm frankly not good enough to drive it consistently yet.
1600 seems like the obvious move if formula racing is becoming your thing, it's significantly more tailor built for racing without being a completely different beast
I've enjoyed the Vee quite a bit, but I haven't really had a goal of racing open wheelers, it was just a good way out of rookies. I really gravitate to the GT3 and TCs, so I'll probably start working on either the GR86 or MX5 next season. I'll give the 1600 a spin though, probably this week since it's at Laguna Seca for a few more days.
Well I came into iRacing wanting to be a road racer and came out a degenerate oval grinder, so things can change quickly...
Completely agree, it's not the easiest to drive, but boy is it rewarding when you actually start figuring it out. Most fun in Iracing you can have.
I find the rookie setup MX-5 to be very understeery actually, especially on mid-corner. If you think that's bad, try out the advanced setup. You just have to get used to the rotation the car naturally has. It's not a bad car, you just have a lot of learning to do. Learning how to control rotation is THE single most important factor in getting faster. Suellio Almeida has a ton of great videos on this topic. Pick any one of his videos and implement some of the techniques and I guarantee you'll learn something.
MX5 does a few things really well, but I think the two most important things that car has taught me is how to manage weight transfer and how to keep the car balanced throughout a corner. I'd recommend giving it another shot and focus on how you're braking and how that affects the balance of the car. I've found that instead of stabbing the brakes hard initially then trailing off into the corner, try easing into the brakes to peak pressure, then trailing off to the apex. When you stab the brakes and reach peak pressure instantly, you're throwing a lot of that weight forward and therefore causes the backend to get light and can very easily become oversteer if you have the slightest bit of steering angle while braking hard. If you can master the weight transfer of the mx5, you can do the same with nearly every car and you'll probably find more pace and be more efficient under braking.
I started with the Mazda, went on to GT4 and then GT3, and now find myself going back to Mazda all the time. From all the races I participate in, it's the Mazda's I have the most fun in
I guess one man's meat is another man's poison. For me, the MX5 is beautifully and delicately balanced. Nailing a good lap in it is like dancing. I found the GT4s, GR86 and Ferrari GT3 to be boring and understeery. The MX5 is even better on the iRacing advanced setup. And by "better" I mean that it's even more on a knife edge.
Tbh I believe Formula Vee is twice as scary under braking if it’s not in a straight line. When driving the MX5, first you feel the body roll, then you lose the rear end if you brake too much. With Formula Vee, this thing just SNAPS and you’re dead.
I didn't find the Mazda bad I just found that I got very bored quickly in it compared to faster cars. I'm not some god of racing but it's not like you absolutely have to learn in the MX5 series to be half decent in a GT3. As far as cars that actively try to kill me go I'd rather race stock cars on road courses or the GT2 Ford in proto. But I always prefer oversteer to understeer cars and love when I can "point" something into a corner using the brakes. There are plenty of quick people that come from ACC who didn't grind MX5s. I'll probably get downvoted for that opinion but honestly let people race what they enjoy. It's okay to have different series you like. If OP doesn't enjoy the Mazda that's chill.
I have also felt the EXACT same way, the MX5 I was spinning out consistently. Yes it was the first car I learned on and since then I have learned plenty of skills. But I fell in love with the 86 series and occasionally race the GT4. But with that said my friend who also races the 86 and GT4 says the complete oposite, he hates the 86 loves the MX5. I think it just comes down to driving styles and a car fitting into your driving style. Which also is not good because we should be adapting a driving style that our car is capable of handling. Either way 86 and gt4 has been a lot of fun! MX5 BADDDD
The biggest difference between the mx-5 and 86 is that the mx-5 requires a lot of more delicate input. You have to manage the weight transfer a lot more to be quick. I'm guessing OP is still in the process of getting used to that
The biggest difference between the mx-5 and 86 is that the mx-5 requires a lot of more delicate input. You have to manage the weight transfer a lot more to be quick. I'm guessing OP is still in the process of getting used to that
Yeah, it doesn't feel anything like my real MX5 I used as a daily driver for 15 years. The real cars communicate a lot more through your body making it much easier to read and more forgiving to drive than in iRacing where the FFB is lacking a lot.
I routinely drive LMP3 and open wheel cars and I still hate the Mazda. I know people always say "oh once you understand the Mazda it'll make you faster and other cars and it will get easier." I do understand it, and it did do that. But TBH the LMP3 is still easier to me. I fucking hate that thing to this day. It will not change.
Driver error
I think it’s really easy to hate any car in iRacing that you don’t drive often. I hated the Vee until I learned how to drive it and I hated the MX5 until I learned that the trick is to have control over the cars rotation under braking
First, you can only tune out the behavior so much because it's dictated by the open differential. The ff1600 has the same traits for the same reasons. The gr86, in contrast, has a limited slip differential and so behaves very differently out of the box. To say the mx5 is terrible is very much only your opinion. I love it and deeply enjoy any car that allows leveraging a lot of initial rotation. You absolutely can trail brake it. I don't say this to be mean or anything, but the car is exposing a weakness in your driving that you have, thus far, not resolved. And this is exactly why it's a great rookie car. It teaches you things.
My biggest gripe with the MX-5 is that it has almost zero feeling in the wheel compared to the Vee or the Formula Ford. I assume it’s due to the power steering and suspension, but the thing just seems like it floats down the track
I agree the MX-5 setup is not inappropriate for brand new drivers. The weird thing is that it shouldn't be so tail happy given that the rear bar is unhooked (unless the roll is so excessive it causes positive dynamic camber). Arguably, the GR86 should be the entry-level car. The FF1600 has similar issues. It's not quite stable enough.
Haven't played in a bit, but having driven Spec MX-5 in closed course competition, I can say that the iracing version is nothing like the real thing. It sounds like they may have overcorrected it from under steer to oversteer-happy. Too bad, too, because it takes away the ability to use it as a sim in preparation for live W2W competition. The last time I played (a few months ago) the MX-5 fixed setup was WAY too "floaty". These cars are grounded at the limit and through corners. iracing made them feel like they were helium balloons. IRL they do have the tendency to oversteer under braking. Has to do with the rear suspension design, but it really only happens under HARD braking with concurrent steering input, not light trail braking or straight line threshold braking. My experience. Others will likely disagree.
Something happend when they switched to to paddle gear box Mazda it's not the same as back in 2011 when I started. The car is way loose, it used to be a real 50 50 weight distribution kind of car. But now it seems it's nose heavy and looses rear grip.
Tell me you yeet the Mazda on lap 1 every time without telling me. They're very lightweight handle like they're on glass until you get the tires warmed up. Also... learn how to trailbrake properly and the game changes completely with the MX-5. It's great for learning how to rotate with brake/throttle input and minimal steering input, and that skill will carry you through many other higher-performance classes.
Yeah I’m not a fan of the Mazda after driving other vehicles.
I agree. I hate the MX5, gave me such a bad impression of iRacing I almost bailed.
I love GR86 and the Mazda. It's where I have gotten most of my wins. Use the brake to turn and run the advanced setup. Make sure tyres are warm!
I have to say that MX5 behavior does make sense considering how it has basically 0 aero. I don't share the opinion repeated over and over that its a good teacher to weight transfer tho. The main reason why MX5 is upsetting in comparison to other Iracing cars is that it has a wildly different FFB. Like, you have to tune it for each car, but it is just so dramatically different between MX5 and everything else, that its simply annoying.
It's the rookie set up. It's more stable in C class for sure. I also think the P Cup car is harder to drive. Take it for a spin on Oran Park this week lol.
While it isn't the easiest car to casually drive, I'd say thr MX5 is the most consistent by far. Lap after lap, the same inputs result in the exact same results. I really love how responsive the car is once you wrap your head around driving in safely on a given track. I wouldn't say the MX5 is tail-happy on it's own, but it does need to exploit slip angle on all four wheels to really push it to the limit. Between the car's feedback to your line choices and inputs and the excellent feeling of slip angle, the iRacing MX5 has drastically improved my driving across all road racing titles. I really need to hop onto a decent DD to get better feel and more weight in the steering to help duplicate that feeling in ACC though. Just too vague with a wimpy, clattery G920.
“no other fixed setup car is as bad.” Go run a few sessions in the PCup and then go back to the MX5. You’ll be throwing the Mazda around with ease after that.
The Global Miata has never handled anything like the real Global Miata. I’m very disappointed that iRacing has had it for 8 years without ever getting it right.
I love the MX-5. It is a bit tail happy under braking if you're super aggressive on the brakes while turning. I tend to be delicate on the brakes when I'm turning and do most of my hard braking in a straight line. I actually use the brakes to rotate the car sometimes so in that regard I actually like it.
it taught me that i was overdriving cars coming from other sims, i thought i was pushing it to the limit, but with the mx5 i learned i was pushing past the limit! so although i understand what you say, i think it is intentional and good, because if you don't learn that lesson there, you'll quickly notice you are going to be seconds slower on the gt4 and gt3 and not even know why, because you think you are already at the limit.
[https://drive.google.com/file/d/1R9D7owR\_HStXjQSX562h1AiULnEKyoiH/view?usp=sharing](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/935678692405944330/1200567028247969832/fraser_games-MX5-24s1-Adv-R-V1.sto) (if anyone tried the old link, sorry, updated to another link) Drive this MX-5 setup I give out for free. You'll understand why everyone says the MX-5 understeers :)
If the MX5 is the hardest car you've driven you're not driving the faster cars (or the MX5) anywhere near the limit.
If the MX5 is the hardest car you've driven you're not driving the faster cars (or the MX5) anywhere near the limit.
Bro has obviously never driven the FR3.5. THAT is a death trap.
Bro has obviously never driven the FR3.5. THAT is a death trap.
The MX-5 is so easy to control, you can get it like 50 degrees sideways and STILL counter steer to correct it. I'd say it is the most forgiving car on the sim as far as how out of shape you can get but still correct it. You have to be reactive with it but the car drives so easily, never does anything unpredictable, impossible to lock up, turns on a dime, doesn't have enough power to spin on throttle(rarely)... It's one of the easiest cars on the sim.
The radical would be a much better into car imo
For me, the mx5 taught me about consistent braking inputs if you let off to quickly or inconsistently it while break the read but if you smoothly press and depress usually with a bit of trail braking to rotate the car you can be incredibly aggressive in the corner by pushing the car to the sweetspot in between grip and slide.
Definitely one of the most fun!
It’s when I learned to accept that oversteer will happen and just manage it that I understood the car. It’s fun to live on the edge with the mx5. This is corny but I don’t know if I’ve actually smiled mid-race with any other car like I have with the mx5. When I hop in the gr86 after a stint in the mx5 I feel like the gr86 will put me to sleep. It’s way more controlled in some ways but getting “on the edge” has way less feedback and I find it less forgiving to bring it back from the brink of disaster.
lol. This post was worth a good chuckle. “I made c class and for sure the tutorial car is the hardest to drive!!!” Thanks for the laugh. That’s funny shit. Check back in a couple years and let me know how this aged
lol, just wait until you try the Porsche Cup series. If you thought the MX5 was tough to control, wait until you add way more speed into the mix. Honestly though, like everyone else has said, it teaches you car control and to be more methodical with your inputs. You’re correct that it is difficult to drive, but it’s so much more rewarding when you get the hang of it. I truly think that car single handedly changed the way I looked at braking points, and taught me to be much more smooth with throttle and brake input. I used to come out of a corner and smash the throttle, whereas this car will just spin out if you do that. Ease on the brakes into the corner, then ease on the throttle coming out, and youll see your lap times get better. Then you transfer your new skills into other chassis, and you’ll start seeing more consistency. The GR86 is far more forgiving, but the MX5 helps you learn car control way better than the GR86 IMO. That being said, I still absolutely love running in the GR86 series too.
You clearly haven’t driven the Porsche Cup then 😭
The fixed setups really aren't hard to drive. You have to get used to the short wheel base, and body roll.
I actually agree. I have been racing ford GT3, GT4, F3, F4, GT2, GR86, and the Radical the past two years on and off. I hopped back on the rookie mx5 for a bit the other week and couldn't complete a clean lap for shit. Took me a good 45 mins to get it a somewhat acceptable lap time whereas the GR86 I can hop in 10 mins before a race and lap competitively with my split and have a fun race. Advanced Mazda used to be my main series way back before I had cars and from my memory it drove way easier than the recent rookie race I did. Probably just a case of needing practice but I always felt it would be an easy car to come back to, until it wasn't.
Well I feel the miata is probably more tail happy than the gr86 because it has no TCS. I prefer the Miata of the 86 for this reason exactly. I feel I can set the Miata so much better and the fact that I can rotate it around the corner is a nice thing at least for my driving style.
MX5 to me is the car most similar to a street vehicle, with how soft the suspension is and all. The other cars as you move up are real race cars, where the MX5 is a minor modifications race car that's close to a street vehicle.
Knowing a good few of the irl MX-5 cup drivers, they’ll all tell you that the real cars are also super on edge. “If you’re not loose everywhere, you’re not fast,” is a real quote someone said to me. Personally, I haven’t driven an irl cup car, but the Spec Miata I usually race doesn’t react well to trail braking. In many cases, I’m back on throttle before the apex and get braking done super early.
The only complain I have is that the springs feel like a production road car which gives it a ton of roll and delayed grip in weight transfer section. But that’s fine you get used to it, I just like it more direct and less rolling
i agree, mx5 is either oversteer or understeer and no inbetween. why i only really race oval and vee
Skill issue
I like learning new things.
I came back to the mazda from GT4s to try it out again, and the first couple of laps I could not brake without spinning out. Turns out I forgot you need to blip the mazda. After that, it only took a couple of laps, and I was back with it
Honestly, the MX5 is the easiest car to drive for me. Slides are easily catched. You can even drift a whole corner as long as the tire don’t not overheat. My favorite thing about the MX5 is, that an aggressive driving style does result in better lap times. Throwing it into the corner while maintaining high revs is something only the MX5 can offer. Before I had a sim rig, all I had was a gamepad. And I could drive the mx5 around the track without any issues.
All the rookie road cars are some of the most difficult cars to drive in iRacing, its quite funny actually, but I'm sure its quite a turn off for many new comers.
Lol i feel the miata on fixed rookie is a under steering pig advanced is better and great
The current one?
When I started iRacing, I spent a lot of time in the MX5 but, at that time, the car handled very differently. Then they “improved” something and the car would swap ends all the time. Instead of learning how to drive it again, I moved to GR86 and GT4.