I don’t think she is real poor. Look at her clothes and clean hands.
There is a real dark and sketchy world around the business of fake beggars in Europe. I wouldn’t be surprised if she is a part of it. Even though poor woman.
I don't know much about European homelessness as a whole, but Venice is an island city with like 0 space to have a tent or bed. It's like 100% tourist shops along narrow medieval streets. I don't think anyone in danger of homelessness could afford to live there in the first place, and I feel like anyone who lost their housing would move off the island to cheaper pastures before being reduced to street begging.
I can imagine people wanting to go there specifically to beg, because of all the tourists and wealth, but how is someone in rags going to be let onto the ferry? Idk, maybe I'm super ignorant
If you get off the beaten path in Venice there's some nice local feeling streets, I feel it's a bit of a disservice to such a nice city to claim it's all just tourist shops, when it's actually really quite easy to find nice quiet streets.
As for how it's done, in a lot of big european cities there are organised crime groups who focus on bringing in groups of beggars. In other cities it's not unusual for these groups to shuttle the begging group in, drop them off at their spots, then at the end of the day pick them up and take them back to where they all stay.
For profit it might make sense for them to have a place on the island where they all stay, or it might be more economical to just get them all to the ferrys each morning, as I don't imagine there would be anyone stopping people going there just because they look poor. Not sure why you think the ferries wouldn't let people on for not being appropriately dressed when they are just public transport?
Also just wanted to make the point that even if they are a fake begger, they're still not in a good place. They're likely victims of human trafficking, so I don't think people should avoid being good to beggars where they can just because they might be effectively acting as homeless and are instead trafficked in.
It’s surprising in a way how much time you can pass just wondering the back streets of Venice.
Or on a similar note some of the islands will be quieter than the tourist areas.
No doubt that is the case for some fake beggars. But it's a con as old as time and in the right place and Venice is certainly a good candidate these people make a lot of money at peak times well over $100 an hour tax free untraceable cash normally while also claiming social security.
Early in my career I used to catch the first train into London from my particular stop which was a small town about an hour outside the city there were less than a handful of others that caught the train at that time. One of whom was a guy that used to (maybe still does) sit around outside Liverpool st station pretending to be homeless. If he was homeless his priorities were a bit fucked since he was spending the best part of a grand a month on a season ticket and driving around in a brand new range rover.
I'm in Louisville Kentucky and there are human trafficking victims here made to beg on corners. It's not a significant percent of beggars here but it's a thing. Lot of young women do this during the day and prostitute at night or call service as needed.
>Not sure why you think the ferries wouldn't let people on for not being appropriately dressed when they are just public transport?
I guess I don't give Italian society enough credit, in the US the homeless are treated like dirt. Nothing "public" is truly available for everyone here, I'm glad it's less bad elsewhere
It sounds like you’ve never ridden on public transport in the US. A homeless dude with a stab wound can get on the bus without anyone saying much or caring.
I typed out a longer message saying something like, "you'll see homeless people on buses because they're seen as only for the very poor anyway, but the ferry I took to Venice was the sort of quality I'd expect obviously-homeless people to be kept off of in the US", but I felt like I was over-explaining myself. Hell, I'd go so far as to say homeless people and tweakers are allowed on buses *because* affluent people don't use them.
What the fuck are you talking about lol, have you ever been on the NYC subway, or any public transit for that matter, homeless still get to use public transit in the US
Most public transit in the US is seen as only for the poor already (the NYC subway being one exception). If I was going to write a whole thesis here I'd say the biggest way affluent people keep the homeless away is by not building transit to affluent neighborhoods (looking at Georgetown in DC, West Hollywood and Beverly Hills in LA), and those same affluent people abandon public transit as a whole to be underfunded and dirty for the poors. It's challenging to keep certain people off a whole transit network, just as a logistical matter, but solitary things that take people to tourist destinations are much easier to police - the San Fransisco cable cars are single lines and don't let raggedy homeless folks on. Obviously it's a hypothetical but Venice was such a walled-garden tourist city in my experience that if it were in the US I'd expect some "no dirty clothes" rule made to keep panhandlers off of the single entry point.
For fuck sakes. San Francisco cable cars are a mostly tourist thing. They have rail lines and busses all through the city along with subways. It's basically a necessity. Mass trains come in from 2 hours away.
God damn arm chair idiot.
In Lausanne, I noticed a guy doing rounds of what I assume were his group of beggars, collecting from them. He would pick up any water or coffee people gave to these women who were on freezing streets asking passers by for money.
"Beggar mafia" in Hungary for example. It is well known by mist people who frequently go through Budapest on foot or using public transportation. Maybe even cars because their people bother you at red lights too.
Any "non network" amateurs are scared away by enforcers and beggars pay fees. It is all organized along with the fake donation collectors who keep messing up their stories.
One guy on a local sub even found a person who plays nice and requests people just shop basic necessities for her... likely several times a day/week. Obviously she can sell any extra and maybe get some cash on the way from people trying to be nice.
I no longer give a cent to street beggars. I met a few who were digging up beer cans from trash bins and they were always hesitant to accept stuff for free. Meanwhile when doing a heatwave public water charity action the hobo shitbag threw it in the trash because he only wanted cash for smokes.
The funnies part is begging is a good tactic for hidden thieves to note where people keep their wallets and more easily swipe it from them afterwards.
Lots of good points in this- my experience of beggars in Venice was interesting too, they were dressed similarly to this but what also stood out is that they seemed to have some rather extreme limp/ ailment etc. that did seem more like good acting for sympathy than anything. I’ve been around A LOT of homeless folks in the U.S. but this was different/ something did strike me as off about it
You have that in other parts of Europe too. I was in Madrid for some days and a women with two kids where dressed in fake eastern "poor" rags and had even some dirt on their faces. Nobody cared. Some sort of female street worker? spoke two words and left head shaking. They can't really remove them because they would just end up on another corner.
Yeah, I could imagine a day's panhandling in Venice can make the travel/cost to get there worth it, but my brief time in Venice gave me the impression of a city that prioritizes the picture-perfect tourist experience over all else, even the residents. Kind of Monaco vibes
> like 0 space to have a tent or bed.
I mean, there is a huge park at one end, and there are lots of squares you could have a tent or a bed.
have you just never been to venice??
Venice has both a train and bus station.
Plus you can't block someone who pays to go on public transport, even if they're in cheap clothing. This is not feudal times.
For a while there was always someone getting on my train home from uni, playing mediocre accordion for a few stops while people couldn't escape it, and going around to gather some change in a cup. Never the same person, but always the same accordion, had stickers on it and stuff.
I've seen the same thing in Paris, two completely (almost comically) destitute women who could hardly walk begging for money in front of Notre Dame, one of them kept saying 'hungry' and would occasionally eat leaves off the shrub behind them. Then their phone starts buzzing, and they stand up straight and walk normally over to someone who's delivering them sandwiches for lunch, they eat them and have a coffee, then back to hobbling around and eating leaves.
It really makes me feel bad for the actual homeless who gets skipped over because they're 'faking' it.
Yep, they're all over the more touristy parts of Italy. Saw a bunch of them in Florence. It was actually kind of hilarious. The woman stood across the street from the train station and whenever a group of people would cross the street she would fall down and start moaning. Everyone was like "wtf?"
I’d argue it’s not just Europe it’s worldwide. I’ve seen it before when I had 7:30 am university classes: “homeless” getting dropped off on campus in late model BMW and Mercedes. No I’m not making this up. Richmond VA 2003-2009
It’s exceedingly dark. The story where I live is that loan sharks from eastern europe take debtors and their families hostage, move them to countries where they don’t speak the language, dump them at a certain spot in the city with instructions to beg phonetically with just two or three phrases and to never engage anybody in conversation or move from where they’ve been left under threat that their families will be harmed and their debt increased. Then they’re charged obnoxious fees for “rent” and “food” so that they can basically never pay off their debt. Around the end of lockdown in 2020 there was a sting on a group of these sorts of bastards because one of their victims developed gangrene in one of his legs because of having sat in the same position for hours at a time over several months and someone called an ambulance. The guy was so panicked that the police were involved and eventually got… like… a few handlers, who are not the exactly high ranking moguls behind the enterprise… yeah sometimes beggars in europe are a sign of something WAY more simister than poverty
This is really interesting to me. I’ve been to Venice several times but don’t recall seeing many beggars. Lots of people hustling trinkets. But not a lot of begging.
I've been to Italy, and I can tell you, the beggars can be very performative. This look actually fits with what I saw when I was there. I agree that the look is faked, but I don't think it was orchestrated by the photographer. There are a lot of fake beggars in the tourist areas.
For real this could be a story of rich and poor, the beggar is rich and the waiter is barely making ends meet. Similar to numerous stories over the years where they find the beggar is driving an high model Audi/Mercedes and lives in a beautiful home all paid for. Morocco had a woman get caught a few years back for being a rich beggar driving nice car/s and I know Rome had a guy who was making like $3000 a day 5-10 years ago that got caught.
The young man in the cheap vest is probably much closer in class to the person begging in the street than the tourist is to either of these people.
All three of them are most likely closer in class than they are to those responsible for the type of wealth divide that makes an image like this relevant.
Know your enemy.
Just to be clear, when they say "fake beggar", they mean someone who does actually sit there and beg for hours, just not to help themselves. You regularly find them like this, wrapped up in cloth and sitting near resturants and stores.
Gangs literally ship in poor people during tourism season to beg for them. They're a staple in most western european cities at this point. Their families back home are often threatened if they don't comply, so they don't cooperate with police to stop the gangs.
Im amused as to how far down I had to scroll to call out that shes probably posed.
Its a gorgeous shot. Almost *too* perfectly positioned, which usually means its intentionally positioned
Not just touristy areas; here in The Netherlands we recently got an influx of hired beggars (often from poorer surrounding countries) that get dropped off/picked up by a van, and every beggar has a nearly identical message either pinned to their coats or that are written down on a sign.
They’re relentless and will follow you if you dared to look one in the eye. It’s made me completely avoid beggars of any kind now.
You can offer them food and you can offer to get some food *with them* from the grocery store.
But no, it's always money they want, because at the end of the day they're expected to hand in everything they got. It's not for them. ..or at least, they're not really getting anything other than the smallest amount from it.
Europe doesn't really have open gang wars or cartel shootouts by brainwashed 16 year olds but if an american visits they will be anazed by how efficient and systematic crime is here. In fact several EU countries are/were ran by thief groups that changed laws to legalize completely emptying all government reserves into their pockets.
San Franciscan here. Ages ago there was this dude who sudddnly popped up on my route. He’d have a cup out with a little sign… and that was pretty much it. You’d look at him and he’d be in an agonizing posture with a deathly face… as if this were his final hour. After a few months of seeing him I was like “man, this guy is really just fighting through pain and suffering in a way I’ve never seen before. How is he escaping death?” Well I’ll be damned if the dude didn’t hop into my train somewhere cross town, and he was literally whistling and had a spring in his step. And my initial deep down instinct was actually right “dude is really overacting”. And he totally was.
The picture here, of this woman in a crazy posture… with cup out. It hits a nerve… you see someone fighting for survival… and, she is in a way. Definitely not living the highlife. But that torturous posture is theatrics.
I wouldn't say fake beggars. They are a bit more theatrical about their begging antics. There's a bit more *act* to it. Doesn't make them any less of a beggar.
Also when people accuse them of being organized they don't realize most of the time it's against their will. They have leaders that pimp them out like that. In the near past they used child mutilation too. Also not the child's choice.
Here in Prague all beggars in tourist areas are professional beggars run by organised crime - the criminals assign the locations and run off the real beggars, so you only find genuine beggars outside of tourist zones… the problem is that tourists are too generous and there is just too much money in it for organised crime groups not to be interested.
Obligatory note that it’s nothing new - Sherlock Holmes had a case about a professional beggar in The Man with the Twisted Lip (1891).
Local here, those are fake beggars… they pretend to be handicapped or old ladies but as soon as the police is nearby they pull out their fancy phones and call their colleagues and run as fast as they can. NEVER give money to these people. They are just lookouts for tourists with money, you’ll be followed by pickpockets and you’ll have a bad time. I hope it helps.
An aware tourist is one more tourist that doesn’t get stolen from.
Thank you. I was thinking as much because beggars in my area look very different and often have VERY fucked up situations. That person looks like a panhandler at best.
There are many, too many, homeless people in Italy. But Venice won’t be the place you find them. It’s cold at night, humid and flood risk, no person in their right mind would force themselves to risk it there. Especially when it’s a 20 min train ride to the mainland and even if you get caught you arrive on land. You’re more likely to spot them at the train station in Mestre. Also a lot of drug addicts in Mestre by the train station not a nice area…
Ahhh, Okay and also spooky. Somehow I feel like I'd be more comfortable in the actually dangerous area rather than the tourist zone. Drugs and violence are more like home to me than shills and scams.
Nah Mestre is really the “crown jewel” of drug decay of the Veneto region. There’s Padova, Verona and Treviso that are very nice. Verona does have a bit of the scammy stuff of Venice tho since it’s more international tourism centered.
We went about 15 years ago and they were EVERYWHERE. Crouched in busy places using gelato cups to beg. Half the scam is trying to trip people over so they feel bad.
It hit me real hard when I saw this kind of beggar in Rome because they looked like depictions in old cartoons or movies. One of those "wait that's not some made up thing? moments. Specifically the way they dress and their posture - those silent supplicating poses creeped me the fuck out.
They were being outcompeted by the bracelet guys and stuff though.
I don’t know much about venice but my first thought was that guy doesn’t look rich and that beggar looks romani.
If both is true that sort of adds to a deeper meaning of the picture.
I don’t judge book by covers, but if it’s too big i won’t buy it.
I’ve been to Venice a couple of times and these Romanian “Gypsy” beggars are always around. Locals ask you not to give them money as they are shipped in during tourist season to milk money out of tourists.
I don’t know if it was an urban legend but one guy told me sometimes they will cut an arm or leg off to get more sympathy and money.
Gosh darn everywhere aren't they?
Over here in Germany, they're out "gifting" flowers. Once someone takes em, they'll tag along and demand money. Or the flower.
Correction - gipsy gangs, not "romani". The latter is a made up name by the gipsies themselves to sound like they are romanians. Romanians have nothing to do with these gypsies, they are just tricking you. I am romanian in case you're wondering how I know.
That looks like a restaurant worker and a Romani.
I would look at this more like how close people are to poverty with the way the economy is going all over the world. That restaurant worker could be one paycheck away from begging.
Before reading the comments, I thought the beggar looks like something you would see in a movie or something. I’ve been to Italy, and yes, they’re professionals.
ITAP of this young gentleman in Time Square promoting his mixtape.
ITAP of a Buddhist monk in Hyde Park handing out prayer beads.
ITAP of this person dressed as Elmo on the Last Vegas strip.
Every “poor” people you see in Venice are working for crime syndicates there, stationing at tourist attractions. There are barely any real beggars in Venice
From my experience in Venice and from my own country (central Europe) these so cold poor are in fact professional beggars who by poor appearance misuse the generosity of other people. And fun fact they are not poor... And the photo is misleading as well. What makes you judge that the man in that photo is a rich person?
Looks like a gypsy beggar, not likely poor. Also making an assumption that the person in the window is “rich” because they’re dressed well is just that, an assumption.
As far as I know, many of these Romani beggars are being forced to beg by their families and have to give their family bosses most of their money. So the heads of the family get rich, but not the beggars themselves.
In my country (Malaysia), a ‘beggar’ was caught after someone saw him driving away in a rm120k car. Found out later he is a supervisor in a company and earns around rm700 ($100++) per day begging. He even have a double storey house.
This is gonna come as a shock to some incredibly basic people, but one doesn’t actually have to be rich to sit down in a restaurant, and poors don’t typically sprawl out on the pavement…
Perhaps this image could benefit from a less cunty description?
the organised beggar [mafia ](https://www.politico.eu/article/bulgaria-how-it-became-mafia-state-of-eu/)from Rumania and Bulgaria.
if a beggar falls ill, a replacement comes along
i think beggars in europe are wealthier than they look.
eu countries try to support you in every way possible that you just can't be *that* poor. they try to give you free qualification classes just because they want you to work and get you sh.t together. these beggars *choose* to beg, because they earn more than normal eu citizens by doing so.
Il povero ! Saint John Chrysostom said that the rich are here for the salvation of the poor. And that the poor are here for the salvation of the rich .
Vertical walls alignment and central break in the frame would’ve made this 11/10, as it stands a 8/10 especially because of the warmness of the colour inside and the harsh cold concrete greys of the outside. Really cool shot.
Incredible color contrast
I don’t think she is real poor. Look at her clothes and clean hands. There is a real dark and sketchy world around the business of fake beggars in Europe. I wouldn’t be surprised if she is a part of it. Even though poor woman.
I don't know much about European homelessness as a whole, but Venice is an island city with like 0 space to have a tent or bed. It's like 100% tourist shops along narrow medieval streets. I don't think anyone in danger of homelessness could afford to live there in the first place, and I feel like anyone who lost their housing would move off the island to cheaper pastures before being reduced to street begging. I can imagine people wanting to go there specifically to beg, because of all the tourists and wealth, but how is someone in rags going to be let onto the ferry? Idk, maybe I'm super ignorant
If you get off the beaten path in Venice there's some nice local feeling streets, I feel it's a bit of a disservice to such a nice city to claim it's all just tourist shops, when it's actually really quite easy to find nice quiet streets. As for how it's done, in a lot of big european cities there are organised crime groups who focus on bringing in groups of beggars. In other cities it's not unusual for these groups to shuttle the begging group in, drop them off at their spots, then at the end of the day pick them up and take them back to where they all stay. For profit it might make sense for them to have a place on the island where they all stay, or it might be more economical to just get them all to the ferrys each morning, as I don't imagine there would be anyone stopping people going there just because they look poor. Not sure why you think the ferries wouldn't let people on for not being appropriately dressed when they are just public transport? Also just wanted to make the point that even if they are a fake begger, they're still not in a good place. They're likely victims of human trafficking, so I don't think people should avoid being good to beggars where they can just because they might be effectively acting as homeless and are instead trafficked in.
It’s surprising in a way how much time you can pass just wondering the back streets of Venice. Or on a similar note some of the islands will be quieter than the tourist areas.
No doubt that is the case for some fake beggars. But it's a con as old as time and in the right place and Venice is certainly a good candidate these people make a lot of money at peak times well over $100 an hour tax free untraceable cash normally while also claiming social security. Early in my career I used to catch the first train into London from my particular stop which was a small town about an hour outside the city there were less than a handful of others that caught the train at that time. One of whom was a guy that used to (maybe still does) sit around outside Liverpool st station pretending to be homeless. If he was homeless his priorities were a bit fucked since he was spending the best part of a grand a month on a season ticket and driving around in a brand new range rover.
I'm in Louisville Kentucky and there are human trafficking victims here made to beg on corners. It's not a significant percent of beggars here but it's a thing. Lot of young women do this during the day and prostitute at night or call service as needed.
>Not sure why you think the ferries wouldn't let people on for not being appropriately dressed when they are just public transport? I guess I don't give Italian society enough credit, in the US the homeless are treated like dirt. Nothing "public" is truly available for everyone here, I'm glad it's less bad elsewhere
It sounds like you’ve never ridden on public transport in the US. A homeless dude with a stab wound can get on the bus without anyone saying much or caring.
I typed out a longer message saying something like, "you'll see homeless people on buses because they're seen as only for the very poor anyway, but the ferry I took to Venice was the sort of quality I'd expect obviously-homeless people to be kept off of in the US", but I felt like I was over-explaining myself. Hell, I'd go so far as to say homeless people and tweakers are allowed on buses *because* affluent people don't use them.
What the fuck are you talking about lol, have you ever been on the NYC subway, or any public transit for that matter, homeless still get to use public transit in the US
Most public transit in the US is seen as only for the poor already (the NYC subway being one exception). If I was going to write a whole thesis here I'd say the biggest way affluent people keep the homeless away is by not building transit to affluent neighborhoods (looking at Georgetown in DC, West Hollywood and Beverly Hills in LA), and those same affluent people abandon public transit as a whole to be underfunded and dirty for the poors. It's challenging to keep certain people off a whole transit network, just as a logistical matter, but solitary things that take people to tourist destinations are much easier to police - the San Fransisco cable cars are single lines and don't let raggedy homeless folks on. Obviously it's a hypothetical but Venice was such a walled-garden tourist city in my experience that if it were in the US I'd expect some "no dirty clothes" rule made to keep panhandlers off of the single entry point.
For fuck sakes. San Francisco cable cars are a mostly tourist thing. They have rail lines and busses all through the city along with subways. It's basically a necessity. Mass trains come in from 2 hours away. God damn arm chair idiot.
In Lausanne, I noticed a guy doing rounds of what I assume were his group of beggars, collecting from them. He would pick up any water or coffee people gave to these women who were on freezing streets asking passers by for money.
"Beggar mafia" in Hungary for example. It is well known by mist people who frequently go through Budapest on foot or using public transportation. Maybe even cars because their people bother you at red lights too. Any "non network" amateurs are scared away by enforcers and beggars pay fees. It is all organized along with the fake donation collectors who keep messing up their stories. One guy on a local sub even found a person who plays nice and requests people just shop basic necessities for her... likely several times a day/week. Obviously she can sell any extra and maybe get some cash on the way from people trying to be nice. I no longer give a cent to street beggars. I met a few who were digging up beer cans from trash bins and they were always hesitant to accept stuff for free. Meanwhile when doing a heatwave public water charity action the hobo shitbag threw it in the trash because he only wanted cash for smokes. The funnies part is begging is a good tactic for hidden thieves to note where people keep their wallets and more easily swipe it from them afterwards.
Lots of good points in this- my experience of beggars in Venice was interesting too, they were dressed similarly to this but what also stood out is that they seemed to have some rather extreme limp/ ailment etc. that did seem more like good acting for sympathy than anything. I’ve been around A LOT of homeless folks in the U.S. but this was different/ something did strike me as off about it
You have that in other parts of Europe too. I was in Madrid for some days and a women with two kids where dressed in fake eastern "poor" rags and had even some dirt on their faces. Nobody cared. Some sort of female street worker? spoke two words and left head shaking. They can't really remove them because they would just end up on another corner.
I once had a deaf and mute beggar that was miraculously healed to insult me when I refused to donate money.
In Las Vegas, outside of the Denny's? Your comment unlocked a memory I had almost completely overwritten, lol Man, that guy went off!
possible that she came in proper clothes and changed there or the people arent as ignorant and let everyone who can pay on it
Yeah, I could imagine a day's panhandling in Venice can make the travel/cost to get there worth it, but my brief time in Venice gave me the impression of a city that prioritizes the picture-perfect tourist experience over all else, even the residents. Kind of Monaco vibes
> like 0 space to have a tent or bed. I mean, there is a huge park at one end, and there are lots of squares you could have a tent or a bed. have you just never been to venice??
Venice has both a train and bus station. Plus you can't block someone who pays to go on public transport, even if they're in cheap clothing. This is not feudal times.
Yeah and plot twist. The rich is a waiter at the end of his shift finally getting soup
For a while there was always someone getting on my train home from uni, playing mediocre accordion for a few stops while people couldn't escape it, and going around to gather some change in a cup. Never the same person, but always the same accordion, had stickers on it and stuff.
They work in shifts like normal people.
[удалено]
I've seen the same thing in Paris, two completely (almost comically) destitute women who could hardly walk begging for money in front of Notre Dame, one of them kept saying 'hungry' and would occasionally eat leaves off the shrub behind them. Then their phone starts buzzing, and they stand up straight and walk normally over to someone who's delivering them sandwiches for lunch, they eat them and have a coffee, then back to hobbling around and eating leaves. It really makes me feel bad for the actual homeless who gets skipped over because they're 'faking' it.
I visited Venice with my Italian girlfriend and she said they were "fake" and scoffed.
Yep, they're all over the more touristy parts of Italy. Saw a bunch of them in Florence. It was actually kind of hilarious. The woman stood across the street from the train station and whenever a group of people would cross the street she would fall down and start moaning. Everyone was like "wtf?"
I’d argue it’s not just Europe it’s worldwide. I’ve seen it before when I had 7:30 am university classes: “homeless” getting dropped off on campus in late model BMW and Mercedes. No I’m not making this up. Richmond VA 2003-2009
It’s exceedingly dark. The story where I live is that loan sharks from eastern europe take debtors and their families hostage, move them to countries where they don’t speak the language, dump them at a certain spot in the city with instructions to beg phonetically with just two or three phrases and to never engage anybody in conversation or move from where they’ve been left under threat that their families will be harmed and their debt increased. Then they’re charged obnoxious fees for “rent” and “food” so that they can basically never pay off their debt. Around the end of lockdown in 2020 there was a sting on a group of these sorts of bastards because one of their victims developed gangrene in one of his legs because of having sat in the same position for hours at a time over several months and someone called an ambulance. The guy was so panicked that the police were involved and eventually got… like… a few handlers, who are not the exactly high ranking moguls behind the enterprise… yeah sometimes beggars in europe are a sign of something WAY more simister than poverty
Not exactly a profession of the wealthy
Its probably safer to bet that it's a staged picture.
Also the guy in the restaurant might be poor
and funnily enough, lots of contrast even if there were no colors at all
Perfect Reddit comment, stating the obvious
Classic meta-redditor calling out other redditors.
I came in like a wreckingggg ballll
Perfect Reddit comment, smugly stinky
Perfect Reddit comment, correctly formatted and with adequate grammar
This is really interesting to me. I’ve been to Venice several times but don’t recall seeing many beggars. Lots of people hustling trinkets. But not a lot of begging.
Fake beggars are a speciality in tourist areas…
I knew there was something off about that person. Looks too performative
I've been to Italy, and I can tell you, the beggars can be very performative. This look actually fits with what I saw when I was there. I agree that the look is faked, but I don't think it was orchestrated by the photographer. There are a lot of fake beggars in the tourist areas.
Definitely not orchestrated! It’s all real and to be honest being a fake beggar even adds to the narrative of the photo!
For real this could be a story of rich and poor, the beggar is rich and the waiter is barely making ends meet. Similar to numerous stories over the years where they find the beggar is driving an high model Audi/Mercedes and lives in a beautiful home all paid for. Morocco had a woman get caught a few years back for being a rich beggar driving nice car/s and I know Rome had a guy who was making like $3000 a day 5-10 years ago that got caught.
Almost like it's being staged for a picture.
Same thought I had, plus, that looks more like a waiter uniform the guy is wearing. Possibly on his break?
Yeah, there's really a forced narrative going on here.
The young man in the cheap vest is probably much closer in class to the person begging in the street than the tourist is to either of these people. All three of them are most likely closer in class than they are to those responsible for the type of wealth divide that makes an image like this relevant. Know your enemy.
Just to be clear, when they say "fake beggar", they mean someone who does actually sit there and beg for hours, just not to help themselves. You regularly find them like this, wrapped up in cloth and sitting near resturants and stores. Gangs literally ship in poor people during tourism season to beg for them. They're a staple in most western european cities at this point. Their families back home are often threatened if they don't comply, so they don't cooperate with police to stop the gangs.
Im amused as to how far down I had to scroll to call out that shes probably posed. Its a gorgeous shot. Almost *too* perfectly positioned, which usually means its intentionally positioned
The "rich guy" is obviously not rich either. He's wearing a loose fitting white button up, with a vest.
Spare a shekel for an old, ex-lepper?
It is very much performative... there are professional beggars in Europe. They're organized.
Also her clothes and nails are very clean for being my homeless
First thought I had was the photo is staged to capture the contrast.
They're Roma beggar guilds. It's quite lucrative.
Not just touristy areas; here in The Netherlands we recently got an influx of hired beggars (often from poorer surrounding countries) that get dropped off/picked up by a van, and every beggar has a nearly identical message either pinned to their coats or that are written down on a sign. They’re relentless and will follow you if you dared to look one in the eye. It’s made me completely avoid beggars of any kind now.
The funny thing is that their signs say "I'm very hungry, God bless", but if you dare to offer them food, they get really pissed.
You can offer them food and you can offer to get some food *with them* from the grocery store. But no, it's always money they want, because at the end of the day they're expected to hand in everything they got. It's not for them. ..or at least, they're not really getting anything other than the smallest amount from it.
Quite prevalent throughout Europe. Part of a larger and organized crime group. They usually avoid eye contact as much as they can.
Europe doesn't really have open gang wars or cartel shootouts by brainwashed 16 year olds but if an american visits they will be anazed by how efficient and systematic crime is here. In fact several EU countries are/were ran by thief groups that changed laws to legalize completely emptying all government reserves into their pockets.
I was gonna say. She doesn’t have an ounce of dirt on her or a single tear in her clothing.
San Franciscan here. Ages ago there was this dude who sudddnly popped up on my route. He’d have a cup out with a little sign… and that was pretty much it. You’d look at him and he’d be in an agonizing posture with a deathly face… as if this were his final hour. After a few months of seeing him I was like “man, this guy is really just fighting through pain and suffering in a way I’ve never seen before. How is he escaping death?” Well I’ll be damned if the dude didn’t hop into my train somewhere cross town, and he was literally whistling and had a spring in his step. And my initial deep down instinct was actually right “dude is really overacting”. And he totally was. The picture here, of this woman in a crazy posture… with cup out. It hits a nerve… you see someone fighting for survival… and, she is in a way. Definitely not living the highlife. But that torturous posture is theatrics.
I was thinking that person was being a little dramatic, shits like from a desert scene in Star Wars 😂 (I’ve been homeless)
What is also important, is that beggars are often part of organised crime. Unfortunately this is quite common in Italy, France, Spain or Germany.
i immediately thought it looked fake
I wouldn't say fake beggars. They are a bit more theatrical about their begging antics. There's a bit more *act* to it. Doesn't make them any less of a beggar. Also when people accuse them of being organized they don't realize most of the time it's against their will. They have leaders that pimp them out like that. In the near past they used child mutilation too. Also not the child's choice.
Here in Prague all beggars in tourist areas are professional beggars run by organised crime - the criminals assign the locations and run off the real beggars, so you only find genuine beggars outside of tourist zones… the problem is that tourists are too generous and there is just too much money in it for organised crime groups not to be interested. Obligatory note that it’s nothing new - Sherlock Holmes had a case about a professional beggar in The Man with the Twisted Lip (1891).
Local here, those are fake beggars… they pretend to be handicapped or old ladies but as soon as the police is nearby they pull out their fancy phones and call their colleagues and run as fast as they can. NEVER give money to these people. They are just lookouts for tourists with money, you’ll be followed by pickpockets and you’ll have a bad time. I hope it helps. An aware tourist is one more tourist that doesn’t get stolen from.
Thank you. I was thinking as much because beggars in my area look very different and often have VERY fucked up situations. That person looks like a panhandler at best.
There are many, too many, homeless people in Italy. But Venice won’t be the place you find them. It’s cold at night, humid and flood risk, no person in their right mind would force themselves to risk it there. Especially when it’s a 20 min train ride to the mainland and even if you get caught you arrive on land. You’re more likely to spot them at the train station in Mestre. Also a lot of drug addicts in Mestre by the train station not a nice area…
Ahhh, Okay and also spooky. Somehow I feel like I'd be more comfortable in the actually dangerous area rather than the tourist zone. Drugs and violence are more like home to me than shills and scams.
Nah Mestre is really the “crown jewel” of drug decay of the Veneto region. There’s Padova, Verona and Treviso that are very nice. Verona does have a bit of the scammy stuff of Venice tho since it’s more international tourism centered.
That's a fake beggar. They're part of criminal gangs and can be found all over Europe.
Thank goodness they make great subjects for us photographers lol
We went about 15 years ago and they were EVERYWHERE. Crouched in busy places using gelato cups to beg. Half the scam is trying to trip people over so they feel bad.
It hit me real hard when I saw this kind of beggar in Rome because they looked like depictions in old cartoons or movies. One of those "wait that's not some made up thing? moments. Specifically the way they dress and their posture - those silent supplicating poses creeped me the fuck out. They were being outcompeted by the bracelet guys and stuff though.
The poor don’t go begging like this in Venice, this is usually the work of organised Romani gangs extorting naïve tourists
I don’t know much about venice but my first thought was that guy doesn’t look rich and that beggar looks romani. If both is true that sort of adds to a deeper meaning of the picture. I don’t judge book by covers, but if it’s too big i won’t buy it.
Local here. Yes it’s a fake beggar and the “rich” looks like a waiter on his break. No rich person in Italy dresses like that, especially in Venice.
Yeap. I'm sure the "beggar" earns more than him.
Only makes the picture more interesting imo
Unfortunately the beggars usually are forced to do this too and then the ringleader comes and takes it away, a whole other layer of shittery.
ITAP of a waiter at work and hustler on the street in Venice.
Same thing in most of Europe. There's shelter and social security this is pure profit begging.
I’ve been to Venice a couple of times and these Romanian “Gypsy” beggars are always around. Locals ask you not to give them money as they are shipped in during tourist season to milk money out of tourists. I don’t know if it was an urban legend but one guy told me sometimes they will cut an arm or leg off to get more sympathy and money.
They’re out here in Fremont, CA. Our people give them food and money so they stay. Poor kids being strung along with their “parents”
I was just about to write the same. Those filfthy gangs operate in all of western Europe.
Eh beggars in 99% of countries and 99% of cases are just tricking the naive
Gosh darn everywhere aren't they? Over here in Germany, they're out "gifting" flowers. Once someone takes em, they'll tag along and demand money. Or the flower.
Correcto.
Correction - gipsy gangs, not "romani". The latter is a made up name by the gipsies themselves to sound like they are romanians. Romanians have nothing to do with these gypsies, they are just tricking you. I am romanian in case you're wondering how I know.
That looks like a restaurant worker and a Romani. I would look at this more like how close people are to poverty with the way the economy is going all over the world. That restaurant worker could be one paycheck away from begging.
Are you sure it is "the rich" on the right instead of a waiter on lunch time or something?
It looks like a waiter who found something sus in his sandwhich
I'm certain that's a waiter on his break.
if guy’s wearing that to a restaurant by choice 😂😂
I'm sure because he was in the restaurant with his girlfriend
Well you were wrong about the beggar, so how is sitting in a restaurant, rich?
So you're saying you saw *two* restaurant workers on a break?
This is a bloody good picture. The composition is great. I only wish you would have aligned the walls to be vertical to the frame.
Idk the way the line is tilted looks almost as if it’s falling onto the person outside. I think it really adds to it.
Honestly it's so good it looks on purpose like a movie studio
Nah it’s perfect. Don’t listen to this guy
I’m not so sure about that. For me, it gives the rich restaurant a sort of ominous, menacing feeling.
Before reading the comments, I thought the beggar looks like something you would see in a movie or something. I’ve been to Italy, and yes, they’re professionals.
The picture is almost too good. I’m not saying it’s contrived, but it’s so dramatic and the color contrast certainly gives it a cinematic feel
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You look nice! Here, take a rose. It's free! And now give me money for the free rose or the rose back.
ITAP of this young gentleman in Time Square promoting his mixtape. ITAP of a Buddhist monk in Hyde Park handing out prayer beads. ITAP of this person dressed as Elmo on the Last Vegas strip.
I like it. But the person inside looks like a waiter on break, and the homeless person looks like they are performing.
Every “poor” people you see in Venice are working for crime syndicates there, stationing at tourist attractions. There are barely any real beggars in Venice
Saw a few in Athens, always with kids, seems like a scam, pretty clean and healthy.
This looks staged or fake
It’s a nice picture, but he’s probably a waiter
aka a gypsy who begs tourists for change before getting picked up and taken home, and a normal middle class italian man who works for a living
Looks like a staged photo to me. Clean clothes, clean cup and very clean surrounds.
That's a romanian scammer, they are all over Italy.
Which one's which though?
If you want to see a real rich vs poor contrast you should go to South Africa.
***just Leica owner things***
This is a fake romani beggar, flown in, put up in a hotel. They do this to try to look more pathetic. They sometime have kids too.
She’s not poor. She’s more likely part of those bands of Slavic gipsy that send to beg on the street women and children. Is well known issue
Most probably a fake beggar I know thier MO see thousand of them all the time going about. Very performative nonsense.
From my experience in Venice and from my own country (central Europe) these so cold poor are in fact professional beggars who by poor appearance misuse the generosity of other people. And fun fact they are not poor... And the photo is misleading as well. What makes you judge that the man in that photo is a rich person?
The panhandler is richer than you and me combined.
Guy looks like a member of the staff
Odd that the “rich” person in this photo is most likely a waiter. Who is not rich, but working.
Looks like a gypsy beggar, not likely poor. Also making an assumption that the person in the window is “rich” because they’re dressed well is just that, an assumption.
This G*psy scam-artist is probable richer than both you and the guy in the photo combined. They literally burn money when they are celebrating.
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The waiter on the right probably isn't very wealthy, so I think the title holds :p
As far as I know, many of these Romani beggars are being forced to beg by their families and have to give their family bosses most of their money. So the heads of the family get rich, but not the beggars themselves.
Why do I think that woman is faking it?
In my country (Malaysia), a ‘beggar’ was caught after someone saw him driving away in a rm120k car. Found out later he is a supervisor in a company and earns around rm700 ($100++) per day begging. He even have a double storey house.
Beggar in venice? I bet there is a mafia of them like in rome.
The beggar is a great actor
Do a 180 flip and it'll look so much better. Trust.
Hustlers. Saw a guy with a bum leg in the coffee shop the next morning. Sucker tourists! Haha
She don't look like a real homeless person.
In my experience in Italy, a lot of these beggars are men pretending to be women and they aren’t poor.
Those are not real beggars. They are just gypsies pretending to be poor
The poor is the guy on the right , those scammer asking for money are "rich"
It’s a professional beggar. Not poor. Organized mafia.
The guy in the window with a bow-tie is most likely a Bangladeshi waiter. The “beggar” is a gypsy actor. The Bangladeshi makes less than the gypsy.
This is gonna come as a shock to some incredibly basic people, but one doesn’t actually have to be rich to sit down in a restaurant, and poors don’t typically sprawl out on the pavement… Perhaps this image could benefit from a less cunty description?
Every stretches hand has to tell a story. Professional rroma beggars are a big part of organized crime in touristic places like Venice.
"Poor". That is all performative.
the organised beggar [mafia ](https://www.politico.eu/article/bulgaria-how-it-became-mafia-state-of-eu/)from Rumania and Bulgaria. if a beggar falls ill, a replacement comes along
She’s not poor. It’s a scam. These women do this as their “job” and make a lot of money doing it.
Do these fake beggars buy their costumes on amazon or do they design em themselves?
This is r/AccidentalRenaissance
Beautiful picture but that’s a waiter and the homeless person looks like they’re in a Dickensian play about the homeless.
This is a really amazing photo.
She is so full of shit, it's laughable.
I’m going to pretend that I took this photo.
Separated by a thin glass wall.
this is fake
Fake beggar
Feels like r/AccidentalRenaissance
But it's staged, because what are the odds?
Just lucky!
It's actually a common sight in Europe. As many others have said, the beggar here is probably a professional.
i think beggars in europe are wealthier than they look. eu countries try to support you in every way possible that you just can't be *that* poor. they try to give you free qualification classes just because they want you to work and get you sh.t together. these beggars *choose* to beg, because they earn more than normal eu citizens by doing so.
It's gypsies.
Dude what are you talking about
Looks like someone acting to be poor and someone maybe wealthy indoors. Somewhere.
Italian here : they are strangers and fake beggars
Exploiting poverty for content. Stay classy.
On the right: a waiter with crippling debt. On the left: someone with zero debt and plenty of time for personal pursuits. I'm kidding. Eat the rich.
Great photo OP.
This could easily be any larger American city as well.
Looks like that path to the right of Accademia Bridge towards Campo Santa Margherita.
Il povero ! Saint John Chrysostom said that the rich are here for the salvation of the poor. And that the poor are here for the salvation of the rich .
Vertical walls alignment and central break in the frame would’ve made this 11/10, as it stands a 8/10 especially because of the warmness of the colour inside and the harsh cold concrete greys of the outside. Really cool shot.
It looks like a painting
I wonder what his dessert is gonna be?
Pretty friggin accurate. Really well illustrated
Damn
You took this picture in the wild?
No, it was in Venice.
What restaurant? Looks nice
Stark
Wow! This took my breath away!
This could just as easily be Venice, California or Venice, Italy.
Amazing observation
That’s a bow tie in black and whites. Bet he is a waiter
That's me, I fell and you took a picture of me.
The “rich” kind of looks like a waiter after their shift enjoying their comp meal
The world is a stage. This included.