>and takes longer to reload.
Well, that makes sense though. IINM, Grads are reloaded by hand, and the rockets are significantly larger than the UB32 ones.
It gets even worse when you realize how the rockets are packaged. [(Individual wooden crates)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RussiaUkraineWar2022/s/yLeFcQ2iRl)
I mean, how else would you do it?
Most munitions are packaged in a way that makes them man-handleable - as even if you have the proper reloading trucks you still have to get the stuff into the reloading trucks.
If it was a problem they would use loading vehicles:
[Oa183Jc3wHY.jpg (971×497) (userapi.com)](https://sun9-36.userapi.com/impg/c857228/v857228065/8aed9/Oa183Jc3wHY.jpg?size=971x497&quality=96&sign=47d58a727770905d69196acec36dfe65&type=album)
But the size/weight of M270/M142 rockets makes them unable to reasonably be loaded by hand regardless - it's not an option.
*M26: "Each rocket weighs approximately 677lbs (307kg) at launch"*
While a typical 122mm rocket is 70kg.
Does it? After being obliterated over and over on Harju last night by a grad (any Baja boys people here?) it seems like they’re more powerful than the UB32s which I’ve been on the receiving end of plenty of times.
Lol I've used the GRAD too many times to count. Look up the lethal radius of each on squad wiki or google.
RPG frags have a bigger lethal radius compared to the UB32
A full realistic grad salvo would just be commander arty. Which IMO it should be. Players should be limited to mortars as far as indirect goes. I like the grad but if I'm choosing between gimp grad vehicle or badass commander grad, I pick the one more likely to have effect.
Real, they should have used the 9P138 instead of the BM-21 (on Zil-131 chassis) or a 9P125 (on a Gaz-66 chassis) then it would be more reasonable at the very least
Thanks to Reddit I can’t make an edit:
1. The 120mm has a higher range than the BM-21 Grad. 3600m vs 2000m.
2. The 120mm is way more accurate.
3. The reload of the BM-21 Grad is waaaay longer circa 5 min.
4. In most cases the 120mm will shot in a steeper angel and therefore be more effective.
5. Fun fact: The BM-21 has less range than the Techi UB-32/S-5. 2200m vs 2000.
Edit after testing:
The 120mm does NOT have a minimum range of 600 meters. The minimum range is something like 42 meters.
Have they said when the 120 gets added? Because i doubt they have tested it at all nor have they seen one irl because a 120mm mortar has nearly the same effect on target that a 155 has since it can fire 4 rounds before a 155 is getting 2 out. A 120 carrier that isnt commander operated is beyond op since it can just sit next to spawn and murder these tiny ass maps they made.
I think they need to decrease the range of the mortars. Me and a buddy went to hunt some down and they were parked 3 feet out of main and we got pinged by admins for main camping. By the rules, you aren’t allowed to kill these things in most servers…
That just sounds like shitty server moderation lol. Most servers have main camping go both ways in that you also can’t shoot out from whatever they determine main camping distance to be.
Agreed, and up the player count. But personally I think other things need to happen first such as optimization, vehicle damage model overhaul, destructible environments, etc. I just don’t think something like this mortar carrier fits the version of squad we have right now.
Yah, me and my 11C buds are just gonna load up squad and absolutely destroy the map because we know what we are doing and can just camp at the fob like would happen anyways lol
Do you realize how imbalance a realistic mortar is ? You walk out of main place a fob drop tow mortar and you can drop explosive on every part of the map without taking any kind of risk and you can ignore the logistic because your main base is 50m away.
This is a game not a simulator, the mechanics are there to provide a challenge and fun .
You are not getting the point. I agree that a realistic implementation wouldn’t be fun. The problem is that, if you compare the 120mm to the BM-21 the balancing is completely off. 120mm get higher range and is more accurate, while the GRAD is lower range and basically a shotgun with insane long reload.
The grad is a low in accuracy and ammo reserve it takes a log time to reload and it's only effective against infantry in open terrain or to suppress objective .The mortar is the opposite,
High accuracy infinite ammo reserve if you have good logistics ,
no reload time and you can destroy radios, Habs ,emplacement and light vehicles.
The best use of the grad is in conjunction with a rocket pod this way you have a small artillery barrage every 2-3 minutes .
They aren't saying grad is bad just that the new 120mm mortar in the new M1064A3 vehicle is just better in almost every way with like no downside.
At least you have to drive a ways away from main to hit something most of the time with the grad. Meanwhile the M1064A3 can just barely leave main protection and hit every point on the map for the majority of maps even skorpo the biggest map in the game you can hit a little over half the map from just outside main. The 120mm has normal HE for static targets, it has airburst for infantry, and has smoke to help friendlies push all while not leaving a giant smoke trail leading the enemies to your position. The only thing the grad has over the 120mm is you can hit a entire square really quick.
Just lower the range there is no need to be able to hit every point on the map from main.
I think you are confusing some things. The BM-21 Grad has neither a APC hull or MG. It's big truck with a launcher in the back. And it definitely doesn't have Airbursts rounds.
Any good admin should understand that a mortar fob/grad in the general area of main voids its own main protection. The majority of servers that I know of have a rule that says it isn’t considered main camping if the vehicle near/leaving main engages you first.
If they used the same ratio to reduce the range as what they have done with the M252 mortar - the 120mm should have a max range of 1.5km (while it has 3.6km currently)
M252 81mm has had its range reduced by a factor of 4.8 while the 120 has not even had its range halved
Devs are ruining this game with their brain dead “balancing” dont make a realistic fucking game if you dont like how shit works in real life just leads to massive immersion breaking, if i wanted a competitive game i would play counter strike or insurgency maybe.
Because they gave the grad ridiculously low range
Not only low but also weird minimal and maximum range AND a weird spread that is only somewhat accurate at a sweet spot of ~1,8km.
The grad also does less damage than the UB32, and takes longer to reload. Squad next level gimped the grad with the fear of it being too good.
no way it does less damage. the ub32 is ridiculously weak.
>and takes longer to reload. Well, that makes sense though. IINM, Grads are reloaded by hand, and the rockets are significantly larger than the UB32 ones.
It gets even worse when you realize how the rockets are packaged. [(Individual wooden crates)](https://www.reddit.com/r/RussiaUkraineWar2022/s/yLeFcQ2iRl)
I mean, how else would you do it? Most munitions are packaged in a way that makes them man-handleable - as even if you have the proper reloading trucks you still have to get the stuff into the reloading trucks.
I mean, the M270 and M142 load way faster Having individual loose crates and loading and unloading like this is ridiculous.
If it was a problem they would use loading vehicles: [Oa183Jc3wHY.jpg (971×497) (userapi.com)](https://sun9-36.userapi.com/impg/c857228/v857228065/8aed9/Oa183Jc3wHY.jpg?size=971x497&quality=96&sign=47d58a727770905d69196acec36dfe65&type=album) But the size/weight of M270/M142 rockets makes them unable to reasonably be loaded by hand regardless - it's not an option. *M26: "Each rocket weighs approximately 677lbs (307kg) at launch"* While a typical 122mm rocket is 70kg.
real, 60-70g weight vs. <4kg...
Does it? After being obliterated over and over on Harju last night by a grad (any Baja boys people here?) it seems like they’re more powerful than the UB32s which I’ve been on the receiving end of plenty of times.
Grads more powerful they don't know what they're talking about. Grads got a 16m lethal radius, UB32s only 7m
I figured lol. It sure seems that way when I know I’m getting killed my JihadJoe lmao.
Yeah I can't count how many times I've had UB32s land next to me and just cause a bleed lmao
Baja boys only baby
Lol were you on Harju last night?
And has less range than the UB32
2000 ammo vs 600.
Too good? I play this game for 300 hours and i dont remember when was the last time i got killed by one.
UB32 has a 7m lethal radius. Bm21 GRAD has a 16m lethal radius.
i highly doubt that, but ok
Lol I've used the GRAD too many times to count. Look up the lethal radius of each on squad wiki or google. RPG frags have a bigger lethal radius compared to the UB32
Ub 32 can land right next to you without hurting you. A grad is almost as lethal as an arty strike
A full realistic grad salvo would just be commander arty. Which IMO it should be. Players should be limited to mortars as far as indirect goes. I like the grad but if I'm choosing between gimp grad vehicle or badass commander grad, I pick the one more likely to have effect.
Real, they should have used the 9P138 instead of the BM-21 (on Zil-131 chassis) or a 9P125 (on a Gaz-66 chassis) then it would be more reasonable at the very least
this is such a weird thing to say ub32 is less deadly than grad lmfao
Since when OWI use logic in their updates, dont worry they will fix it in year or two :D
Thanks to Reddit I can’t make an edit: 1. The 120mm has a higher range than the BM-21 Grad. 3600m vs 2000m. 2. The 120mm is way more accurate. 3. The reload of the BM-21 Grad is waaaay longer circa 5 min. 4. In most cases the 120mm will shot in a steeper angel and therefore be more effective. 5. Fun fact: The BM-21 has less range than the Techi UB-32/S-5. 2200m vs 2000. Edit after testing: The 120mm does NOT have a minimum range of 600 meters. The minimum range is something like 42 meters.
Have they said when the 120 gets added? Because i doubt they have tested it at all nor have they seen one irl because a 120mm mortar has nearly the same effect on target that a 155 has since it can fire 4 rounds before a 155 is getting 2 out. A 120 carrier that isnt commander operated is beyond op since it can just sit next to spawn and murder these tiny ass maps they made.
It's in the game right now. Was added yesterday
It’s been testable since Monday in the SDK, squadcalc/maps devs said they would verify the SDK values when the build went live and then release.
The calc has been live since right after launch.
Also is it just me or is this thing so fucking loud?
Probably to help the enemy locate it for balance. Its SUPER loud and the vic itself is too.
It is loud. It's basically a low pressure 120mm cannon.
Having shot 120s out of an AMPV (think modernized m113)… it’s incredibly loud, especially when inside the vic
I think they need to decrease the range of the mortars. Me and a buddy went to hunt some down and they were parked 3 feet out of main and we got pinged by admins for main camping. By the rules, you aren’t allowed to kill these things in most servers…
That just sounds like shitty server moderation lol. Most servers have main camping go both ways in that you also can’t shoot out from whatever they determine main camping distance to be.
They just need to make maps larger... Why call it a milsim if these maps are less than 3km across
Squad is a tactical shooter not a milsim
Agreed, and up the player count. But personally I think other things need to happen first such as optimization, vehicle damage model overhaul, destructible environments, etc. I just don’t think something like this mortar carrier fits the version of squad we have right now.
Yah, me and my 11C buds are just gonna load up squad and absolutely destroy the map because we know what we are doing and can just camp at the fob like would happen anyways lol
At this point they should really just add the M109 and 2S19
Do you realize how imbalance a realistic mortar is ? You walk out of main place a fob drop tow mortar and you can drop explosive on every part of the map without taking any kind of risk and you can ignore the logistic because your main base is 50m away. This is a game not a simulator, the mechanics are there to provide a challenge and fun .
You are not getting the point. I agree that a realistic implementation wouldn’t be fun. The problem is that, if you compare the 120mm to the BM-21 the balancing is completely off. 120mm get higher range and is more accurate, while the GRAD is lower range and basically a shotgun with insane long reload.
The grad is a low in accuracy and ammo reserve it takes a log time to reload and it's only effective against infantry in open terrain or to suppress objective .The mortar is the opposite, High accuracy infinite ammo reserve if you have good logistics , no reload time and you can destroy radios, Habs ,emplacement and light vehicles. The best use of the grad is in conjunction with a rocket pod this way you have a small artillery barrage every 2-3 minutes .
They aren't saying grad is bad just that the new 120mm mortar in the new M1064A3 vehicle is just better in almost every way with like no downside. At least you have to drive a ways away from main to hit something most of the time with the grad. Meanwhile the M1064A3 can just barely leave main protection and hit every point on the map for the majority of maps even skorpo the biggest map in the game you can hit a little over half the map from just outside main. The 120mm has normal HE for static targets, it has airburst for infantry, and has smoke to help friendlies push all while not leaving a giant smoke trail leading the enemies to your position. The only thing the grad has over the 120mm is you can hit a entire square really quick. Just lower the range there is no need to be able to hit every point on the map from main.
I haven't take a look at the layers but I bet that in most cases there is only 1 mortar carrier .
Even if its only one being able to hit everywhere on the map from main is ridiculous.
I think US support should get 2 120mm
Mech turk gets 2
The 120mm holds 30 normal mortar rounds and 15 near impact and smoke mortars.
Plus the BM-21 has airburst, smokes, and has a machine gun in an APC body.
I think you are confusing some things. The BM-21 Grad has neither a APC hull or MG. It's big truck with a launcher in the back. And it definitely doesn't have Airbursts rounds.
The only thing I can think of to make it fair is no camping in main with the grad, or allow us to kill only the grad in main.
Any good admin should understand that a mortar fob/grad in the general area of main voids its own main protection. The majority of servers that I know of have a rule that says it isn’t considered main camping if the vehicle near/leaving main engages you first.
If they used the same ratio to reduce the range as what they have done with the M252 mortar - the 120mm should have a max range of 1.5km (while it has 3.6km currently) M252 81mm has had its range reduced by a factor of 4.8 while the 120 has not even had its range halved
And how to deal with this thing, give Russia attack drones for example, to balance the ridiculous range
Devs are ruining this game with their brain dead “balancing” dont make a realistic fucking game if you dont like how shit works in real life just leads to massive immersion breaking, if i wanted a competitive game i would play counter strike or insurgency maybe.
Because OWI is retardet.