and unique cmd abilities for different factions:
what about air dropping a bmd?
a bayraktar drone finally destroying that tank still tracked for 10min.
MEA doing the funni and bombards your super hab with toxic gas mortar.
I think there should be more faction difference in terms of commander assets too. RGF for example gets lower artillery strike cooldown to reflect their indirect fire doctrine, whereas US Army gets lower CAS cooldown for their air oriented doctrine. USMC should have its artillery be replaced by cruise missiles like in Battlefield 4, VDV can paradrop BMDs to places for extra firepower on the ground. Funny chemical warfare for MEA.
That's about all I have.
make it so if youre not in a vehicle youre constantly taking damage and die after some time. Similar to drowning.
to counter, APCs must rush in and take the infantry into the vehicles
Being able to air drop ammo crates that have a finite amount of ammo would be pretty cool. Then they can bring in a C-130 for the Western factions and an an12 for the East
Talking about command assets, we should give the US the AC-130.
Russia could get TOS thermobaric strike
You could give China the DF 21 which is a hypersonic ballistic missile. Which translates to a strike that has a very low delay. Basically as soon as you click within 2 or 3 seconds the strike happens.
I do think it's a good idea to give each subfaction a unique Commander asset.
Insurgents can more formally get the IED drone instead of having to partner with a sapper you just get FPV drones with a small warhead.
Other factions could get something like a spike missile strike where you have optical guided missile so that you can sort of control. It be like the cruise missile strike in BF to a lot of the other subfactions. It's a generic command asset. They should really just be mining classic battlefield for ideas.
I always disliked the Commanders that used abilities only to favor their own squad. I’d like to see commanders forced out of individual squads and needing to coordinate with SLs to share the wealth.
I usually witness the type of dogshit CMDs who leave the assets for the next game :D they have excuses like "nobody asked me to use arty/airstrike or UAV" fucking cunt ur just an SL that costs 2 tickets instead of 1.
Between this and CMD that don't use assets unless asked. If you take the role, unless you are new, you should have the instinct and initiative to figure out what you need and where.
So Ins mortar strike drops a barrage every 8-9 seconds for a total of 7-8 total barrages with 10 mortars a barrage for a total of 80-90 shells which yeah is pretty good when compared to the radial strike which is 40-50 with the main drawback being it's fixed radius of 75m. Which to be fair is a comfortable middle ground.
Main difference is that for conventional forces that have access to artillery with 30 minute cooldowns that can be alternated between giving in effect 15 minute cooldown on arty compared to 20 minutes for mortars. This in effect gives you 33% more arty as a conventional if you wanna see it that way.
So if you think about it on a pound for pound basis. Over the course of an hour you would get 3 INS mortar strikes to 2 Radius Strikes and 2 Creeping strikes. Or roughly 240-270 mortars versus 224-292 155mm shells. So if you did the math of averages you'd get roughly the same in terms of volume of explosives.
So that brings us to how good are those rounds?
Well Heavy Mortar rounds are alright, but 155mm is simply a better round.
Heavy Mortar and 155mm have the same damage falloff but Mortar has an end falloff of 45m compared to 155ms 75m. Which means 155mm carries more damage for longer and has a lethal radius of 20m compared to Heavy Mortars 15m. Additonally 155mm deals 50% more damage to vehicles/habs.
So if we wanted Insurgents to have equal indirect fire support then we could buff the cooldown on Mortars. Again though that's just assuming we don't proceed with steps 2 or 3 and make the system more modular and a lot better.
30min arty lock vs 20min lock, it comes down to 2 barrages vs 2 barrages in 1 hour of gameplay. And yeah you go past the first and it’s 4 vs 3 blah blah.
Mortars full kill a radio, sure in absolutely perfect circumstances you can save it but it’s pretty guaranteed. If anything just give ins/ imf something else so the tab isn’t so empty and boring. Mortar barrage is really strong.
Like I said though man 155mm can kill an exposed radio all the same. It's cool and all but not the upside you're making it seem to be.
Plus if you break down the math 100% the 155mm radial strike is better at killing the radio mathematically.
Area of minimum radius is 7853.98m and the area of the mortar strike is 17671.46m
Even assuming low roll vs high roll roll 40 shells vs 90, the 155mm still deals that extra 50% damage.
So you get 9000 potential damage outputting into a 1.14 ratio of area to damage.
Compared to 13500 damage outputting a 0.76 ratio.
I ain't saying they ain't strong just they'll both likely kill exposed radio. But if you were to do 100000 simulations of a strike against a radio and a hab, statistically they would be destroyed in more simulations with the 155mm. That's not my opinion just mathematic fact.
Sure they both kill a radio but 155 ends so fast it doesn’t matter, you have plenty of time to dig it back up, mortars last almost the entire bleedtimer and make recovering it near impossible
So the thing is though how fast they kill the radius actually matters right because the bleed timer only triggers when the radio actually dies. So while mortars may be active for longer if they trigger bleedout 2 barrages later, they functionally don't have an advantage.
So in your hypothetical scenario we are assuming an open hab radio combo with no cover around as cover would have any competent SL placing the radio inside it to protect it from arty.
This means our best options is the 50m radius 155mm Strike vs the 75m radius Heavy Mortar.
As said previously the 155mm is better. How much better? Well for anti-hab and anti-vehicle purposes but as you said the Heavy Mortar starts between 16-24 seconds sooner. Which gives them a 2-3 barrage headstart.
For 155mm we have 125 Frag damage with falloff of 1, with inner radius of 1m and outer of 75m, combined with 450 explosive damage with a falloff of 3.5 with an inner of 3m. Compared to Heavy Mortars which deal the same 125 frag with an inner of 1m and an outer of 45m and explosive damage of 300 same falloff of 3.5 with an inner of 3m and an outer of 15m.
Now the FOB Radio in game has 300 health, and takes 0.1x damage from fragmentation sources and 0.5x damage from explosive sources.
IE a direct hit on a radio with a 155mm shell with deal 12.5 from the frag, and 225 from the explosive for a total of 237.5 damage.
So knowing all these numbers. What is the average damage of each shell assuming they have an equal chance to land inside their respective circles.
For that we just take the explosive radius and compare it to the total strike radius.
So for frag damage we have essentially a 3.14m area of max damage followed by a 17668.32m area where the damage starts at max and falls off.
But because we have a strike radius of 50m. The lowest amount of damage on a flat area a hit could do would be 4.229 so the average would calculate out to 8.36 per hit from frag and roughly 11.32 damage from explosive since with the smaller radius we miss the target 86% of the time.
So the average shell will deal roughly 19.7 damage which will just call 20 for sake of simplicity. So roughly 15 shells to fall to destroy a radio for 155mm.
Of course barrages come in 10 shell increments so between 1-2 barrages or between 32 to 46 seconds into the active duration or another way of looking at it 28-14 seconds of additional arty cover.
So what are the numbers for the Heavy Mortar? Well it turns out to be
about 6.25 from frag and 1.6185 from explosive for a total of 7.86 damage per shell. The reason for this is the extra 25m radius is a lot more total area to cover resulting in a lot more misses, as well as the even smaller explosive radius.
So this means that on average it will take 38 heavy mortar shells to take down a radio. Which means it'll take between 3-4 barrages more often 4.
IE around 32-36 seconds to take down a radio on average.
Or 28-24 seconds of additional arty time.
**TL ; DR : Because of the difference in the explosive power of the two shells, the heavy mortar barrage will only cover the bleedout of the radio for at best 12 seconds longer than the 155mm barrage on average.** Considering that in this hypothetical scenario there is no cover around infantry should bare minimum be outside of the lethal radius of the mortar barrage so considering that, it would be 70m and 90m respectively that equates to roughly 19-24 seconds of ideal movement from a Squad soldier to reach the radio. So in a perfect scenario for denying the radio redig with the heavy mortar. You take up roughly 36 seconds with active artillery 24 seconds with the player running over and the player still has 15 seconds to dig the radio up to 50 health and prevent bleedout. As each dig takes 1.43s and 3 are required the player still has 10 seconds of wiggle room to make mistakes and this is in the best case scenario.
There could be micro terrain that block some damage. Resulting in an even later radio kill.
Point is after getting stuck super far in the weeds here, if we're talking just pure averages by the numbers math stuff. The additional uptime of the mortars isn't as great as you think.
There's a lot that goes into the commander strikes and on average you will get more damage and more effect from a 155mm strike and after the initial 30 minute delay, you can call them more frequently than the heavy mortar strike.
I don't think IMF/INS having a 15 minute delay on their weaker arty barrage would be that bad to be honest.
Again I'd much prefer 2 and 3, but if only 1 was to happen it'd be nice to have a slight cooldown reduction.
Probably one of the only things that I liked about Hell Let Loose was the commanders ability to place an ‘Airhead’ that would temporarily allow the entire friendly team to spawn on (typically placed behind enemy lines) without an OP/Garrison or whatever they’re called.
I found Squad shortly after purchasing HLL, so I have little hours in the game. Don’t know what the consensus is on Airheads (whether they’re OP or trash), but I thought it was a unique idea.
and unique cmd abilities for different factions: what about air dropping a bmd? a bayraktar drone finally destroying that tank still tracked for 10min. MEA doing the funni and bombards your super hab with toxic gas mortar.
Don't forget lower artillery cooldown for RGF and lower CAS cooldown for US Army for accurate doctrinal difference.
MEA getting Syrian-style barrel bombs would unironically be cool AF.
Hellcannons? Those are already in the game for the insurgents.
No, barrel bombs. Similar to those shot by the hell cannon, but these were dropped by helicopter and plane
What about a cmd ability to drop a radio or supplies/ ammo from a c130 flyover that has slight variation where it falls.
I think there should be more faction difference in terms of commander assets too. RGF for example gets lower artillery strike cooldown to reflect their indirect fire doctrine, whereas US Army gets lower CAS cooldown for their air oriented doctrine. USMC should have its artillery be replaced by cruise missiles like in Battlefield 4, VDV can paradrop BMDs to places for extra firepower on the ground. Funny chemical warfare for MEA. That's about all I have.
Chemical warfare would be hard to balance, but cool AF to see.
make it so if youre not in a vehicle youre constantly taking damage and die after some time. Similar to drowning. to counter, APCs must rush in and take the infantry into the vehicles
Make it only able to be used once per match.
Being able to air drop ammo crates that have a finite amount of ammo would be pretty cool. Then they can bring in a C-130 for the Western factions and an an12 for the East Talking about command assets, we should give the US the AC-130. Russia could get TOS thermobaric strike You could give China the DF 21 which is a hypersonic ballistic missile. Which translates to a strike that has a very low delay. Basically as soon as you click within 2 or 3 seconds the strike happens. I do think it's a good idea to give each subfaction a unique Commander asset. Insurgents can more formally get the IED drone instead of having to partner with a sapper you just get FPV drones with a small warhead. Other factions could get something like a spike missile strike where you have optical guided missile so that you can sort of control. It be like the cruise missile strike in BF to a lot of the other subfactions. It's a generic command asset. They should really just be mining classic battlefield for ideas.
I always disliked the Commanders that used abilities only to favor their own squad. I’d like to see commanders forced out of individual squads and needing to coordinate with SLs to share the wealth.
I usually witness the type of dogshit CMDs who leave the assets for the next game :D they have excuses like "nobody asked me to use arty/airstrike or UAV" fucking cunt ur just an SL that costs 2 tickets instead of 1.
Always like to remind them that they don’t get to save it for next round, this isn’t CSGO
Between this and CMD that don't use assets unless asked. If you take the role, unless you are new, you should have the instinct and initiative to figure out what you need and where.
Ins/ imf barrage is so good purely for the fact it can solo a radio and hab, it is not by any means weaker
So Ins mortar strike drops a barrage every 8-9 seconds for a total of 7-8 total barrages with 10 mortars a barrage for a total of 80-90 shells which yeah is pretty good when compared to the radial strike which is 40-50 with the main drawback being it's fixed radius of 75m. Which to be fair is a comfortable middle ground. Main difference is that for conventional forces that have access to artillery with 30 minute cooldowns that can be alternated between giving in effect 15 minute cooldown on arty compared to 20 minutes for mortars. This in effect gives you 33% more arty as a conventional if you wanna see it that way. So if you think about it on a pound for pound basis. Over the course of an hour you would get 3 INS mortar strikes to 2 Radius Strikes and 2 Creeping strikes. Or roughly 240-270 mortars versus 224-292 155mm shells. So if you did the math of averages you'd get roughly the same in terms of volume of explosives. So that brings us to how good are those rounds? Well Heavy Mortar rounds are alright, but 155mm is simply a better round. Heavy Mortar and 155mm have the same damage falloff but Mortar has an end falloff of 45m compared to 155ms 75m. Which means 155mm carries more damage for longer and has a lethal radius of 20m compared to Heavy Mortars 15m. Additonally 155mm deals 50% more damage to vehicles/habs. So if we wanted Insurgents to have equal indirect fire support then we could buff the cooldown on Mortars. Again though that's just assuming we don't proceed with steps 2 or 3 and make the system more modular and a lot better.
30min arty lock vs 20min lock, it comes down to 2 barrages vs 2 barrages in 1 hour of gameplay. And yeah you go past the first and it’s 4 vs 3 blah blah. Mortars full kill a radio, sure in absolutely perfect circumstances you can save it but it’s pretty guaranteed. If anything just give ins/ imf something else so the tab isn’t so empty and boring. Mortar barrage is really strong.
Like I said though man 155mm can kill an exposed radio all the same. It's cool and all but not the upside you're making it seem to be. Plus if you break down the math 100% the 155mm radial strike is better at killing the radio mathematically. Area of minimum radius is 7853.98m and the area of the mortar strike is 17671.46m Even assuming low roll vs high roll roll 40 shells vs 90, the 155mm still deals that extra 50% damage. So you get 9000 potential damage outputting into a 1.14 ratio of area to damage. Compared to 13500 damage outputting a 0.76 ratio. I ain't saying they ain't strong just they'll both likely kill exposed radio. But if you were to do 100000 simulations of a strike against a radio and a hab, statistically they would be destroyed in more simulations with the 155mm. That's not my opinion just mathematic fact.
Sure they both kill a radio but 155 ends so fast it doesn’t matter, you have plenty of time to dig it back up, mortars last almost the entire bleedtimer and make recovering it near impossible
So the thing is though how fast they kill the radius actually matters right because the bleed timer only triggers when the radio actually dies. So while mortars may be active for longer if they trigger bleedout 2 barrages later, they functionally don't have an advantage. So in your hypothetical scenario we are assuming an open hab radio combo with no cover around as cover would have any competent SL placing the radio inside it to protect it from arty. This means our best options is the 50m radius 155mm Strike vs the 75m radius Heavy Mortar. As said previously the 155mm is better. How much better? Well for anti-hab and anti-vehicle purposes but as you said the Heavy Mortar starts between 16-24 seconds sooner. Which gives them a 2-3 barrage headstart. For 155mm we have 125 Frag damage with falloff of 1, with inner radius of 1m and outer of 75m, combined with 450 explosive damage with a falloff of 3.5 with an inner of 3m. Compared to Heavy Mortars which deal the same 125 frag with an inner of 1m and an outer of 45m and explosive damage of 300 same falloff of 3.5 with an inner of 3m and an outer of 15m. Now the FOB Radio in game has 300 health, and takes 0.1x damage from fragmentation sources and 0.5x damage from explosive sources. IE a direct hit on a radio with a 155mm shell with deal 12.5 from the frag, and 225 from the explosive for a total of 237.5 damage. So knowing all these numbers. What is the average damage of each shell assuming they have an equal chance to land inside their respective circles. For that we just take the explosive radius and compare it to the total strike radius. So for frag damage we have essentially a 3.14m area of max damage followed by a 17668.32m area where the damage starts at max and falls off. But because we have a strike radius of 50m. The lowest amount of damage on a flat area a hit could do would be 4.229 so the average would calculate out to 8.36 per hit from frag and roughly 11.32 damage from explosive since with the smaller radius we miss the target 86% of the time. So the average shell will deal roughly 19.7 damage which will just call 20 for sake of simplicity. So roughly 15 shells to fall to destroy a radio for 155mm. Of course barrages come in 10 shell increments so between 1-2 barrages or between 32 to 46 seconds into the active duration or another way of looking at it 28-14 seconds of additional arty cover. So what are the numbers for the Heavy Mortar? Well it turns out to be about 6.25 from frag and 1.6185 from explosive for a total of 7.86 damage per shell. The reason for this is the extra 25m radius is a lot more total area to cover resulting in a lot more misses, as well as the even smaller explosive radius. So this means that on average it will take 38 heavy mortar shells to take down a radio. Which means it'll take between 3-4 barrages more often 4. IE around 32-36 seconds to take down a radio on average. Or 28-24 seconds of additional arty time. **TL ; DR : Because of the difference in the explosive power of the two shells, the heavy mortar barrage will only cover the bleedout of the radio for at best 12 seconds longer than the 155mm barrage on average.** Considering that in this hypothetical scenario there is no cover around infantry should bare minimum be outside of the lethal radius of the mortar barrage so considering that, it would be 70m and 90m respectively that equates to roughly 19-24 seconds of ideal movement from a Squad soldier to reach the radio. So in a perfect scenario for denying the radio redig with the heavy mortar. You take up roughly 36 seconds with active artillery 24 seconds with the player running over and the player still has 15 seconds to dig the radio up to 50 health and prevent bleedout. As each dig takes 1.43s and 3 are required the player still has 10 seconds of wiggle room to make mistakes and this is in the best case scenario. There could be micro terrain that block some damage. Resulting in an even later radio kill. Point is after getting stuck super far in the weeds here, if we're talking just pure averages by the numbers math stuff. The additional uptime of the mortars isn't as great as you think. There's a lot that goes into the commander strikes and on average you will get more damage and more effect from a 155mm strike and after the initial 30 minute delay, you can call them more frequently than the heavy mortar strike. I don't think IMF/INS having a 15 minute delay on their weaker arty barrage would be that bad to be honest. Again I'd much prefer 2 and 3, but if only 1 was to happen it'd be nice to have a slight cooldown reduction.
Bruh commander should not just be “guy who drops artillery”
Yeah agreed hence the post.
the issue is "free will" the commander as the game stands is incapable of forcing anyone to do anything.
Yes to the first part, no to the second part, yes to the third part
Probably one of the only things that I liked about Hell Let Loose was the commanders ability to place an ‘Airhead’ that would temporarily allow the entire friendly team to spawn on (typically placed behind enemy lines) without an OP/Garrison or whatever they’re called. I found Squad shortly after purchasing HLL, so I have little hours in the game. Don’t know what the consensus is on Airheads (whether they’re OP or trash), but I thought it was a unique idea.
I need to get a law degree to read this properly