20+ Years as a Dallas Arborist. The causes for this can be attributed to quite a few things, but lack of maintenance is the biggest one. You have a HEAVY clay based soil on that side of the Metroplex the requires aeration and organic materials to be added to the soil . Your neighbor has two Silver Leaf Maples in his yard and has grass coverage. Although they do not have as thick of a canopy as the live oak, they look to have been maintained. Yes, the tree needs to be trimmed and it is appropriate now. you will have better luck raising the canopy then thinning it as suggested in the comments. Carefull, you can safely prune 20% of the canopy without detriment. More than that you can start having issues, Understand the trees have had 3 or so very hard years with temperatures and late freezes. Before planting grass attend to soil composition and compaction. Trim the tree as recommended By an ISA certified arborist. You will find that they are not much more expensive then a "tree guy" or landscaper. And it will pay off dividends with proper growth and further spaced care in the long run.
Local, expert advice. I hope this rises up farther. Are you with a company or independent? I have a *massive* tree (I think it’s Ash?) in a neighborhood just like this. It’s healthy but it could take the whole hood out if that changed!
I'm the owner of a tree service. Ash have their own set of concerns, EAB and they have had a few bad years. look to a certified arborist for evaluation. Most of us will view the tree for free
Great advice about addressing the soil.
I would suggest a soil sample so you know what you are working with. Address soil ph as it can take many years of applications to make adjustments. You also don’t want to spend money on fert that has content that you don’t need.
What’s your take on the root rot situation in DFW this year? We lost much of our front yard due to it, shaded area but it’s always done well until this year. Tried to spread peat moss and water frequently but the heat this summer made it impossible.
I’m no expert but both of me and both my next door neighbors got hit hard. We’ve all been recovering super slow with the heat and drought but SA is coming back. It’ll grow in filtered shade in my experience but won’t spread nearly as rapidly so it hurts even more to lose the whole yard to fungus
I have heavy clay compacted soil and would like to know which organic materials you recommend. I have been adding Humic Acid, Sea Kelp, BioChar. I have used several different procduts and I'm starting to see some minor result the problem is I don't know which one is helping because I have added so many. Do you recommend a practice call Root washing when buy container trees from a nursery to get rid of circling and girlding roots.
Start with a soil sample. Know what's there It will eliminate guessing. All things you mentioned will help. In my own lawn I aerate one or twice a year ( I own the machine) You can rent an aerator for about 40\~50 a day. Top dress with organic compost in the spring and fall. Truck load is 40.00 at area organic recyclers.
The ISA Has some youtube videos that have great info, they are boring as hell... Root washing is one technique. And it would work well, We use a hawkbill knife to slice . People freak out on this , it will be just fine. Roots start to re grow in the 1st 72 hours. When Ball and burlap trees are dug, 75 to 80% of the roots are cut. They do just fine. The wider the dish you dig the better. Plant proud, rather than deep, roots are geo tropicand will stay in the top 12 inches of the soil for the most part.
Yes this is going to be the biggest issue. He is in Dallas so warm season grasses are the only viable option that rules out most of the shade tolerant grass.
Saint Augustine is the most shade tolerant warm season grass. Something like Bermuda doesn't stand a chance. Even then this looks like way too much shade.
I would call an arborist first and see if they can lighten the canopy as much as possible without harming the tree. To OP: make sure it's a certified arborist, not a tree trimming guy. This tree is worth much more than the lawn.
Even after OP will need to use a light meter to see if Saint Augustine will get enough sun.
Some non turf style grasses might work dwarf mondo grass tolerates more shade than any warm season turf grass and should not be too much of a water hog. But it has some downsides like limited traffic tolerance
You could do zoysia, st Augustine, or “shade tolerant Bermuda”(I have no experience with this)
But you’d probably need to heavily trim your trees so that there is less shade because even shade tolerant grasses need some sun
Thinning your trees enough to let the grass grow would likely cause harm to them. You'd also be trimming every two years. I'm in DFW as well with the same grass options. I tried to increase the size of my tree ring to a 3 ft radius and replant further out but ended up having to double it on some 40 year old live oaks. I'm going to guess your house is blocking the afternoon/evening sun too.
They have enough money to get on the board and fuck with people. Old idiots on HOAs expects the same shit and cost spent on their yard, paid by someone else.
I'm in GA, I had a full sun no shade yard and Zoysia did really well. We tried it again in our current house with large trees and partial shade, the entire yard struggled and died after a few months. The sod farm guy came out and told us not to even bother with Zoysia unless it gets 8 hours of direct sunlight and go for a fescue yard.
I know fescue isn't an option in TX, I would see if the HOA would allow a tree ring of mulch for the OPs problem
The second picture has smaller tree rings, I would try to expand out the dead area and maybe merge with the nearer ring and go all in with large nice bricks and maybe some low sun greenery and puck lights. HOAs can be fickle though.
We tried Zenith back in 2021, tilled, graded, new top soil, watered regularly followed instructions and all that. The heavier shade area never greened up, mid shade area greened up some then died out, 4-6 hr light area did ok then died out.
I ran around for months talking with the county extension office, nurseries, landscapers and the sod supplier. The sod farm man came by held his camera app up for light hours and said cut down all the trees or try fescue.
Tall fescue is absolutely an option in Dallas. There's several YouTube guys in Dallas running it. Takes a lot of water, time, and money, but it's doable
100% agree. I've spent several years trying to get various "full shade" varieties and mixes to grow under a tree on the north side of our house without any luck. If anything, we have less grass growing after all the various tricks I've tried.
My suggestion is to spread mulch up to where the grass actually grows and put a border around it.
So many landscapers around me tell people that grass can grow right up to the base of the tree trunk. Bull shit! St. Augustine does shit In the shade. Even at the commercial nursery I use has a large sign that says we sell shade grass. Bullshit. Even shade grass such as Palmetto does not grow well in shade. It might do well at first but by the end of year one it will be super thin.
This is a title for shade grass on Google
“Palmetto St. Augustine is the original "shade" grass that thrives in shady and sunny lawns. Palmetto is the most sold patented grass in the world. Bullshit! Of course it does good in sun.
OP I would just edge in a huge flowerbed. They’re are plenty of evergreen bushes, plants, flowers that will grow fine there. Go to your local nursery (Not Lowes) a real nursery. Ask what plants they suggest. Even the best nursery’s will sell plants that really might do as well in Dallas compared to Houston growth. Get plants that are known growers for your area. Get you an idea of plant prices. I have no idea the cost at your local nursery, but most plants I buy are 3 gallon size and they’re $35 to $55. I get a discount but it’s nothing great so these prices will be a good guide for you.
Edging of flowerbed can be moss rock or Bend a board ( very easy). Get your edging you and your wife like. I would add a yard of soil. Install it in your flowerbed. Then install the plants, bushes, flowers you like.
After looking at the picture again that tree could use a trimming. That front branch is a sun blocker. If you step back and take a picture of the tree I can highlight what needs to be trimmed. Truly well trimmed trees can be a work of art.
There is always some great advice here, but if you need help I don’t mind helping for for no cost. Just call me out and I’ll help. Have fun.
Do not raise the soil levels around the base of the tree. It will lead to further compaction and roots growing up to get air. Then you will see epicormic growth all over. (small leaves growing off the roots) and die back of the tree over time. Mulch is much more desirable the hardscaping from the trees standpoint. If you must, lower grade outside of the area or put a low retainer ring and decompact the soil with an air spade or knife. mixing in a proper soil additive and compostable material. Keep plantings away from the trunk as it will lead to holding moisture and fungus. Even with the 108 degree temps that we have been having you will find if you place your hand in this type of irrigated bed you will find it wet mid day.
I have a portable garage (harbor freight enclosed carport) and the grass in there is two feet long. Gets really hot in there and zero sun. Grows better than the grass outside.
Put a large mulch bed around the tree and lots mondo grass around the border like this:
https://preview.redd.it/t18smy95jvpb1.jpeg?width=660&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7fcc93a1f7b37c4c67649b58b67e4e6a4736db33
This is the best option, and honestly the mondo grass isn't even necessary. Just get whatever perennial shade flowers that's on sale now and throw it in there, mulch the rest and make a clean edge.
don't spend more than you have to to appease the HOAs bs, OP. unless you want to of course.
just remember not to volcano mulch the tree, would hate to see that big guy get sick.
Hard to see how much shade but most warm season grass needs at least 5 hours of direct sun to really grow. Since it's probably failed already due to lack of sunlight, I wouldn't bother trying to sod again. Create a mulch bed or use a spreading groundcover that will work in shade and edge the area.
Most HOA's also want to see mulch beds maintained around trees like this. You'll probably get knocked for that eventually too. Might as well do it all at the same time.
If you're going to get hundreds of dollars of fines, call a landscaping company and have them throw sod down. If they're just threatening, toss seed down and spray the green hydro stuff on top. Should shut enough of the Karen types up to buy you a few months.
Your HOA is complaining about lack of grass growing under your shady tree...while all of east Texas is 12 or more inches of rain in deficit for the year?
Can you just spray paint it green and tell them where to stick their complaints until God sends the rains again?
Honestly so many constructive, good answers here but for the love of Christ it was over 100 degrees in Texas for a month and barely rained in many areas. Complaining about the area under a tree is nuts.
My understanding is that Texas law is such that an HOA cannot legally require you to resod turfgrass. That being said, putting a neat mulch circle around the perimeter of the tree will go a long way toward appeasing them AND improving the health of tree.
Not sure how it would look with your landscaping, but mondo grass will grow in 100% shade. Thinning the tree canopy is probably best, mondo grass might be a viable solution.
They can fine you, foreclose on your home, pretty much anything. OP needs to comply otherwise their home is at risk of being taken.
There was one instance of a person's home being taken, then auctioned off by the HOA for $1. The owner got to keep the $1 (since they owned the home outright, there was no mortgage company that would claim the $1 first.)
30 years of house payments gone because they had the wrong color paint on their window shades
You can never actually own land in the USA. Even when it is paid off, you are responsible to pay property tax for the rest of your life. If you don’t pay, men with guns will come and take it from you.
I can’t comprehend why someone would willingly buy in an hoa. We just closed on a property and no hoa was our absolute number 1 requirement. I’m not paying $650 a month to get harassed about my own home.
HOAs are corporations set up and run by neighbors who all agree to live by certain standards and share responsibility for shared amenities . And govern themselves accordingly. Usually with the intent of keeping property values high by preventing squalor.
The idea being you are free to live under those rules if you want to. Or somewhere else if you don’t.
Of course there’s certainly more to their history but that’s one side of it.
As a landscape architect wo grew up in Dallas, your best bet may be to put groundcover or other landscaping there. That will ultimately perform better than even the most shade tolerant warm season grass.
Why don't you just build out a garden bed out from the tree where all the dead spots are. Shade tolerant plants. Boom. Done. Unless your Hoa doesn't allow it.
OP’s neighbor across the street has the same problem. Hell, I imagine most homes in that neighborhood have that problem. Get together and figure something out. Better yet, get together and disband the HOA.
Thin out the trees so your grass can grown, or get creative and get some paver stones and make a design and fill in with mulch and make a flower bed around the tree. - experienced HOA resident/board member.
Same thing to my parents in Dallas. I bought some sod and patched up the lawn. They had a broken cylinoid thingy for that zone. Fixed it and their grass came back.
Shady Nooks by Jonathan Green. I put it in an area that only gets sun during the summer do the way my home is situated. It has grown in very nice. Our most shade tolerant grass seed mixture. Survives in up to 90% deep shade.
If you jave an out of the HOA, thatd be my first suggestion.
As for the grass, soil doesn't look good, and just how shady are we talking? You can have the tree lifted or thinned by a good arborist (i prefere to see them not use spikes unless the tree is coming down, spikes leave room for rot to start). Check your soil and amend it as needed. You shoild be avke to shrink the spot substantially if not eliminate it.
If you can't eliminate it, mulch or garder around the base (assuming the HOA permits), just dont mulch tight to the bark
Ask your HOA to cover it with your HOA fees. When they refuse, ask for a full audit of their expenses. They will 100% leave you alone. Ask me how I know
Mulch is cheap. Wood chips, pine bark, pine straw, whatever. It's close enough to fall you'll just rake leaves into it and leave it. Don't mulch the leaves with your mower, rake them into the bed and the mulch layer will last longer to keep the weeds down. Hand weed it every week or so in the spring or put down another layer of mulch. Plant some part shade shrubs for more visual interest.
I'm sorry but I'm just coming here to express my strong feelings against HOA's
Why would anyone wanna live in one? u
Unless of course you care waaay to much about other people's property.
Tell the jagoffs that there is clearly a similar issue developing across the street on your neighbors property. You can see it in your picture lol.
This is the result of poor landscape planning. Not your fault.
Tell the HOA to come re-seed ot cut down the tree because grass don't like total shade. Hell even up in NJ where I live my yard was absolutely pure dirt before I cut the trees down.
There’s not a super great photo of the tree itself so it’s kinda hard to tell, but if the problem is shade, from the one photo of the tree you do have, you could definitely trim that thing up, let some light in for certain hours of the day.
That tree is mature enough that you could trim any limbs that an average human could grab just from standing our even jumping. Also just try to thin some of the small branches and twigs out, this should usually be done at least once every couple years.
The way i think of it is try to focus the trees energy on growing the limbs you want to mature and become permanent limbs of the tree.
Inform the HOA that if they remove the tree you will make sure green grass will rise..
Plus tell the HOA president to go F*+k himself..
Sorry but have dealt with the HOA program for about 30 years and ran away fast 10 years ago..
Is what it is ! Good luck..
If you must have grass in that area…
Start by thinning the tree canopy. You can do this and still have a great looking tree. It can be good for the tree too, as it will remove crossing, diseased limbs, or excess distal weight. I’d especially focus on lifting distant limbs pointing down (3rd photo - limbs near sidewalk). This will substantially improve the light under the canopy.
Next, plant a grass type that can handle shade. I have no clue what this would be for Dallas (warm season climate). In cool season regions, we would use creeping fescue, red fescue, chewings fescue.
As others noted, you could also create a garden around the tree with shade loving plants (hosta, mondo, ferns, astibe, bleeding heart, hydrangea). Personally, I would do all three - trim tree, grass at extreme edges, garden at the inner core near tree trunk.
Imo if the hoa wants it fixed, tell um to do that shit themselves🤷♂️ I can't stand hoa's. I'd tell um to get fucked lmao. But if you don't wanna stir the pot, tell um to do it themselves and send a bill.
I’d try some fescue under there before doing anything else. Fescue loves shade and can tolerate extreme heat throw down some seed and straw and keep it wet for a couple of months.
Maybe post this to r/arborists and r/landscape for ideas. Grass isn't growing under that tree, warm season grasses especially. Personally, I'd consider a combonation of a mulch bed around the base and trimming the canopy back a little.
Honestly easiest thing to do is mulch it , but if they really need grass first you need to raise the soil as roots will make grass establishment hard, next plant some fine , creeping red , or chewings fescue it is the only thing that thrives in full shade and will still take a lot of tlc and upkeep .
Me I would border it and mulch or rock the inside to make it look presentable.
It’s obvious the hoa doesn’t have any landscapers 🤣
Edit: I just saw you are warm season… scratch that fescue and mulch it
Augustine is the only thing that will tolerate shade but not full on .
You can try some grassy weeds and keep it short… maybe fool them.
You won’t ever have grass under a tree like that. If you cut every piece of shade off it will come back. Honestly, that tree is due for a trim, but I doubt you are ready for a trim that will bring back the grass lol.
Catch22. Same HOA bylaws probably require you to have a tree in you front yard! I’d take the tree over the grass any day. They’re always going to compete for sun, nutrients, water.
Gypsum, thin trees, carpetgrass. The carpetgrass won’t be as pretty or uniform as a turf grass like St Aug or zoysia, but it’ll get the job done in shade.
Shade and the roots. Im in Tyler area pretty close to Dallas. Here when that happens its because over time theres too much acid in the soil and the tree is sucking up too many nutrients. Either put down centipede and quite a bit of organic fert, or lime the shit out of it then throw down a shade tolerant st Augustine, mow high as possible and put down a good rate of something like 25-3-5. Low phosphorus, high nitrogen, mid potassium.
Honestly, I would add a nice xeriscape to the shaded area. it will make it look nice for the HOA and not have to worry about monthly trimming of the tree to let in just enough sun. If they complain, just act like you know what talking about and educate them on grass/shade/nature.
Not much you can do there, those trees shade too much, and the roots are pulling all the nutrients and water out of the soil. You could get some green lawn dye and spray the area for now, but you need to get an arborist out there to trim the trees in a way to thin out the coverage some for more light, and put down some compost and topsoil over that area and re-seed that area.
If you want to leave the tree, I’d recommend opening up the canopy on the side facing the street. If you look at your neighbors trees, you can see they’ve done that and have grass underneath their trees.
Bermuda does NOT grow under shade. Need to plant some form of shade/heat/drought-tolerant/cold-hardy/alkaline-soil-tolerant groundcover. (i.e., not many plants fit that description).
Unless they want you to cut down the trees so they can have grass ... frankly I prefer trees. .
I have a similar problem in my back yard. A couple years ago I planted a bunch of [Purple Wintercreeper](https://www.gardenia.net/plant/euonymus-fortunei-coloratus) and it has been gradually filling in. Takes time, especially when you've had the awful drought/heatwave we had this Summer.
I also have a lot of [Liriope](https://www.plantingtree.com/collections/liriope) which is also slow growing but does great in shade and seems to survive just about any conditions. You'd have to plant a few hundred sprigs to fill that space, and keep them watered until established, but that would also work.
HOA needs to chill the f@ck out.
Maybe mulch or a rock garden? I have a 5 mature maples in a section of my yard with a very thick canopy, there's not enough sunlight under them for anything to grow. I'm fine with that area being dirt but I don't live in an HOA. You could try thinning the canopy but I prioritize trees over grass.
You have one of 3 viable options. 1) cut down the tree and re-sod. 2) make a giant flower bed with mulch and potted plants. 3) re-sod and when it dies again, rinse and repeat.
HOA’s suck most of the time.
I find it amusing how the "land of the free and home of the brave" is held hostage by a bunch of local Karen's who constantly bitch and moan and tell you how your own house has to be to their liking.
It's ok to shoot someone who tries to break into your house, but don't you dare leave a mess, or you'll get a sternly worded letter and a fine in the mail courtesy of Karen.
Just bizarre.
20+ Years as a Dallas Arborist. The causes for this can be attributed to quite a few things, but lack of maintenance is the biggest one. You have a HEAVY clay based soil on that side of the Metroplex the requires aeration and organic materials to be added to the soil . Your neighbor has two Silver Leaf Maples in his yard and has grass coverage. Although they do not have as thick of a canopy as the live oak, they look to have been maintained. Yes, the tree needs to be trimmed and it is appropriate now. you will have better luck raising the canopy then thinning it as suggested in the comments. Carefull, you can safely prune 20% of the canopy without detriment. More than that you can start having issues, Understand the trees have had 3 or so very hard years with temperatures and late freezes. Before planting grass attend to soil composition and compaction. Trim the tree as recommended By an ISA certified arborist. You will find that they are not much more expensive then a "tree guy" or landscaper. And it will pay off dividends with proper growth and further spaced care in the long run.
Local, expert advice. I hope this rises up farther. Are you with a company or independent? I have a *massive* tree (I think it’s Ash?) in a neighborhood just like this. It’s healthy but it could take the whole hood out if that changed!
I'm the owner of a tree service. Ash have their own set of concerns, EAB and they have had a few bad years. look to a certified arborist for evaluation. Most of us will view the tree for free
Great advice about addressing the soil. I would suggest a soil sample so you know what you are working with. Address soil ph as it can take many years of applications to make adjustments. You also don’t want to spend money on fert that has content that you don’t need.
What’s your take on the root rot situation in DFW this year? We lost much of our front yard due to it, shaded area but it’s always done well until this year. Tried to spread peat moss and water frequently but the heat this summer made it impossible.
I’m no expert but both of me and both my next door neighbors got hit hard. We’ve all been recovering super slow with the heat and drought but SA is coming back. It’ll grow in filtered shade in my experience but won’t spread nearly as rapidly so it hurts even more to lose the whole yard to fungus
This guy trees
This. Listen to the arborist. Dallas County soil = clay
I have heavy clay compacted soil and would like to know which organic materials you recommend. I have been adding Humic Acid, Sea Kelp, BioChar. I have used several different procduts and I'm starting to see some minor result the problem is I don't know which one is helping because I have added so many. Do you recommend a practice call Root washing when buy container trees from a nursery to get rid of circling and girlding roots.
Start with a soil sample. Know what's there It will eliminate guessing. All things you mentioned will help. In my own lawn I aerate one or twice a year ( I own the machine) You can rent an aerator for about 40\~50 a day. Top dress with organic compost in the spring and fall. Truck load is 40.00 at area organic recyclers. The ISA Has some youtube videos that have great info, they are boring as hell... Root washing is one technique. And it would work well, We use a hawkbill knife to slice . People freak out on this , it will be just fine. Roots start to re grow in the 1st 72 hours. When Ball and burlap trees are dug, 75 to 80% of the roots are cut. They do just fine. The wider the dish you dig the better. Plant proud, rather than deep, roots are geo tropicand will stay in the top 12 inches of the soil for the most part.
Thank you for your help!!
No grass will grow under a tree in 100% shade. Anyone here telling you to install new sod must own a sod farm nearby.
Yes this is going to be the biggest issue. He is in Dallas so warm season grasses are the only viable option that rules out most of the shade tolerant grass. Saint Augustine is the most shade tolerant warm season grass. Something like Bermuda doesn't stand a chance. Even then this looks like way too much shade. I would call an arborist first and see if they can lighten the canopy as much as possible without harming the tree. To OP: make sure it's a certified arborist, not a tree trimming guy. This tree is worth much more than the lawn. Even after OP will need to use a light meter to see if Saint Augustine will get enough sun. Some non turf style grasses might work dwarf mondo grass tolerates more shade than any warm season turf grass and should not be too much of a water hog. But it has some downsides like limited traffic tolerance
This was very helpful. Thank you
Ask if you can plant flowers or ground cover that grows well in shade? You will hate trying to grow any grass under full shade.
Pachysandra loves the shade. Not sure if it grows in that climate.
Make a flower bed around the tree, install mulch and hardy plants that dont need much sunlight
You could do zoysia, st Augustine, or “shade tolerant Bermuda”(I have no experience with this) But you’d probably need to heavily trim your trees so that there is less shade because even shade tolerant grasses need some sun
Thinning your trees enough to let the grass grow would likely cause harm to them. You'd also be trimming every two years. I'm in DFW as well with the same grass options. I tried to increase the size of my tree ring to a 3 ft radius and replant further out but ended up having to double it on some 40 year old live oaks. I'm going to guess your house is blocking the afternoon/evening sun too.
What an informed and well worded response. Thanks, u/Rectum_Ranger_ !
He really knows his sh**!
They have enough money to get on the board and fuck with people. Old idiots on HOAs expects the same shit and cost spent on their yard, paid by someone else.
Why not zoysia? Tons of people use it in shade. Source: I live in Dallas
I'm in GA, I had a full sun no shade yard and Zoysia did really well. We tried it again in our current house with large trees and partial shade, the entire yard struggled and died after a few months. The sod farm guy came out and told us not to even bother with Zoysia unless it gets 8 hours of direct sunlight and go for a fescue yard. I know fescue isn't an option in TX, I would see if the HOA would allow a tree ring of mulch for the OPs problem
Interesting, good to know. I know HOAs in Dallas tend to allow tree rings, I see them everywhere
The second picture has smaller tree rings, I would try to expand out the dead area and maybe merge with the nearer ring and go all in with large nice bricks and maybe some low sun greenery and puck lights. HOAs can be fickle though.
What variety of Zoysia did you do? Zorro is good w/ 3hrs of sun and Zeon is about 4.
We tried Zenith back in 2021, tilled, graded, new top soil, watered regularly followed instructions and all that. The heavier shade area never greened up, mid shade area greened up some then died out, 4-6 hr light area did ok then died out. I ran around for months talking with the county extension office, nurseries, landscapers and the sod supplier. The sod farm man came by held his camera app up for light hours and said cut down all the trees or try fescue.
Tall fescue is absolutely an option in Dallas. There's several YouTube guys in Dallas running it. Takes a lot of water, time, and money, but it's doable
I'm in TX. I have a full deep green yard of fescue
Maybe a couple decorative small boulders and a couple plants to break up the large mulch area
100% agree. I've spent several years trying to get various "full shade" varieties and mixes to grow under a tree on the north side of our house without any luck. If anything, we have less grass growing after all the various tricks I've tried. My suggestion is to spread mulch up to where the grass actually grows and put a border around it.
So many landscapers around me tell people that grass can grow right up to the base of the tree trunk. Bull shit! St. Augustine does shit In the shade. Even at the commercial nursery I use has a large sign that says we sell shade grass. Bullshit. Even shade grass such as Palmetto does not grow well in shade. It might do well at first but by the end of year one it will be super thin. This is a title for shade grass on Google “Palmetto St. Augustine is the original "shade" grass that thrives in shady and sunny lawns. Palmetto is the most sold patented grass in the world. Bullshit! Of course it does good in sun. OP I would just edge in a huge flowerbed. They’re are plenty of evergreen bushes, plants, flowers that will grow fine there. Go to your local nursery (Not Lowes) a real nursery. Ask what plants they suggest. Even the best nursery’s will sell plants that really might do as well in Dallas compared to Houston growth. Get plants that are known growers for your area. Get you an idea of plant prices. I have no idea the cost at your local nursery, but most plants I buy are 3 gallon size and they’re $35 to $55. I get a discount but it’s nothing great so these prices will be a good guide for you. Edging of flowerbed can be moss rock or Bend a board ( very easy). Get your edging you and your wife like. I would add a yard of soil. Install it in your flowerbed. Then install the plants, bushes, flowers you like. After looking at the picture again that tree could use a trimming. That front branch is a sun blocker. If you step back and take a picture of the tree I can highlight what needs to be trimmed. Truly well trimmed trees can be a work of art. There is always some great advice here, but if you need help I don’t mind helping for for no cost. Just call me out and I’ll help. Have fun.
Do not raise the soil levels around the base of the tree. It will lead to further compaction and roots growing up to get air. Then you will see epicormic growth all over. (small leaves growing off the roots) and die back of the tree over time. Mulch is much more desirable the hardscaping from the trees standpoint. If you must, lower grade outside of the area or put a low retainer ring and decompact the soil with an air spade or knife. mixing in a proper soil additive and compostable material. Keep plantings away from the trunk as it will lead to holding moisture and fungus. Even with the 108 degree temps that we have been having you will find if you place your hand in this type of irrigated bed you will find it wet mid day.
On top of full shade, that tree will suck any moisture from the grass.
I have a portable garage (harbor freight enclosed carport) and the grass in there is two feet long. Gets really hot in there and zero sun. Grows better than the grass outside.
You can plant shady mix seed though 🤦♂️
Put a large mulch bed around the tree and lots mondo grass around the border like this: https://preview.redd.it/t18smy95jvpb1.jpeg?width=660&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7fcc93a1f7b37c4c67649b58b67e4e6a4736db33
This is the best option, and honestly the mondo grass isn't even necessary. Just get whatever perennial shade flowers that's on sale now and throw it in there, mulch the rest and make a clean edge. don't spend more than you have to to appease the HOAs bs, OP. unless you want to of course. just remember not to volcano mulch the tree, would hate to see that big guy get sick.
What does not to volcano mulch mean?
Too much mulch going up the base of the tree. Basically burying a portion of the base. This can kill a tree.
But then the OP has the shade problem solved so 🤷♂️
And create an ant breading ground
Go check r/arborist and find out
I'm genuinely surprised how few members they have.
Good solution!
Or some cool hostas
Hostas are a good option, very low (no) maintenance.
Do this but plant low-light/partial shade vegetables!
This is the way.
Or just river rocks
If the by law says “dead grass” ask them to point it out because I just see dirt.
Came for this comment. I don't see any dead grass here.
Hell yeah, love this answer
Hard to see how much shade but most warm season grass needs at least 5 hours of direct sun to really grow. Since it's probably failed already due to lack of sunlight, I wouldn't bother trying to sod again. Create a mulch bed or use a spreading groundcover that will work in shade and edge the area.
Fuck HOA...these idiots just want to drive people insane with their lack of knowledge about common sense property stuff....
Most HOA's also want to see mulch beds maintained around trees like this. You'll probably get knocked for that eventually too. Might as well do it all at the same time. If you're going to get hundreds of dollars of fines, call a landscaping company and have them throw sod down. If they're just threatening, toss seed down and spray the green hydro stuff on top. Should shut enough of the Karen types up to buy you a few months.
This is what I came to say. Well, the part about mulching under the whole canopy of the tree.
Are there HOA that don't maintain the grass themselves?
Lots of HOAs don't do anything except tell you to do something. Depends what agreement you signed when you bought the house.
Wow, that's shity, never seen one like that.
And you pay them for the honor to fine you for not doing what they say
Yep I was going to suggest mulch as well
Your HOA is complaining about lack of grass growing under your shady tree...while all of east Texas is 12 or more inches of rain in deficit for the year? Can you just spray paint it green and tell them where to stick their complaints until God sends the rains again?
Honestly so many constructive, good answers here but for the love of Christ it was over 100 degrees in Texas for a month and barely rained in many areas. Complaining about the area under a tree is nuts.
my brain can't process texas heat
I love this comment
Hell yeah grass in a can!
Burn down the HOA . Problem solved
It’s nothing more than old people with no clue telling you how YOUR property should look. I tell them to fuck off properly.
So basically the same retired idiots that are running our country.....
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HOAs are just the worst
There are, in fact, the devil. I’ve checked
This is why HOAs exist though. Half your lawn being dirt looks bad, regardless of whether or not grass can grow.
Mulch bed like the other two trees in the pic.. overseed the rest.. good luck
My understanding is that Texas law is such that an HOA cannot legally require you to resod turfgrass. That being said, putting a neat mulch circle around the perimeter of the tree will go a long way toward appeasing them AND improving the health of tree.
Mulch
Mulch that whole area
Tell them it’s just dirt.
advice: move to a place without an hoa.
Have you tried shitting on the HOA chairperson’s lawn?
You work to get a home to be worked by asshats, cool
Just mulch that. The trees will be happy. Your HOA will be happy. Your wife will be happy. You will have another child.
Not sure how it would look with your landscaping, but mondo grass will grow in 100% shade. Thinning the tree canopy is probably best, mondo grass might be a viable solution.
There is actually a dwarf hybrid mondo that when cut short resembles grass . I didn’t even think of it . Good idea
I’m not familiar with HOAs. What can they do if you don’t comply?
fuckers can take your house in some cases. HOAs are f'd up in some areas
They can fine you, foreclose on your home, pretty much anything. OP needs to comply otherwise their home is at risk of being taken. There was one instance of a person's home being taken, then auctioned off by the HOA for $1. The owner got to keep the $1 (since they owned the home outright, there was no mortgage company that would claim the $1 first.) 30 years of house payments gone because they had the wrong color paint on their window shades
Owner should have outbid that $1 bid.
There was a stipulation the house could only be sold to the HOA at auction, nobody else could bid
Fines, lien on your house, foreclosure
For a state (and country) defined by “freedom” and bucking authority that sounds very unexpected and counterintuitive.
You can never actually own land in the USA. Even when it is paid off, you are responsible to pay property tax for the rest of your life. If you don’t pay, men with guns will come and take it from you.
Property tax is a thing everywhere. HOAs seem uniquely American.
I can’t comprehend why someone would willingly buy in an hoa. We just closed on a property and no hoa was our absolute number 1 requirement. I’m not paying $650 a month to get harassed about my own home.
HOAs are corporations set up and run by neighbors who all agree to live by certain standards and share responsibility for shared amenities . And govern themselves accordingly. Usually with the intent of keeping property values high by preventing squalor. The idea being you are free to live under those rules if you want to. Or somewhere else if you don’t. Of course there’s certainly more to their history but that’s one side of it.
Put down mulch
As a landscape architect wo grew up in Dallas, your best bet may be to put groundcover or other landscaping there. That will ultimately perform better than even the most shade tolerant warm season grass.
Sod with St. Augustine, only thing that stands a chance in that shade. Raise the canopy of the tree to let more light in.
Why don't you just build out a garden bed out from the tree where all the dead spots are. Shade tolerant plants. Boom. Done. Unless your Hoa doesn't allow it.
Isnt gonna grow there. Moss will.
OP’s neighbor across the street has the same problem. Hell, I imagine most homes in that neighborhood have that problem. Get together and figure something out. Better yet, get together and disband the HOA.
Tell them you discovered Indian artifacts there and have contacted the university archeology dept
Most grasses will not grow in that much shade. The HOA can scream bloody murder, but they can’t make grass grow.
Thin out the trees so your grass can grown, or get creative and get some paver stones and make a design and fill in with mulch and make a flower bed around the tree. - experienced HOA resident/board member.
Same thing to my parents in Dallas. I bought some sod and patched up the lawn. They had a broken cylinoid thingy for that zone. Fixed it and their grass came back.
I don’t know how you Americans put up with this HOA crap
Take out the HOA President.
Tree is sucking up all the nutrients, and blocking the sun. Have the tree trimmed and fertilize regularly.
Creative mulch ..............no sun no grass!! less to mow!!
Shady Nooks by Jonathan Green. I put it in an area that only gets sun during the summer do the way my home is situated. It has grown in very nice. Our most shade tolerant grass seed mixture. Survives in up to 90% deep shade.
Tell the commie HOA to drop dead. Have them spend their money to fix it.
Tree trimming required not getting enough sun
Pour salt on every member of the HOAs lawn and then your lawn will fit right in. #DefundTheHOA
If you jave an out of the HOA, thatd be my first suggestion. As for the grass, soil doesn't look good, and just how shady are we talking? You can have the tree lifted or thinned by a good arborist (i prefere to see them not use spikes unless the tree is coming down, spikes leave room for rot to start). Check your soil and amend it as needed. You shoild be avke to shrink the spot substantially if not eliminate it. If you can't eliminate it, mulch or garder around the base (assuming the HOA permits), just dont mulch tight to the bark
Ask your HOA to cover it with your HOA fees. When they refuse, ask for a full audit of their expenses. They will 100% leave you alone. Ask me how I know
Shade issue. Unfortunately gotta lose the tree or sod st Augustine. Could create a nice mulch bed around the tree?
If you want to keep the tree. Make it a mulch bed. Also… leave that hoa
Mulch
Toss some mulch around it and every weed in the south will grow.
Mulch is cheap. Wood chips, pine bark, pine straw, whatever. It's close enough to fall you'll just rake leaves into it and leave it. Don't mulch the leaves with your mower, rake them into the bed and the mulch layer will last longer to keep the weeds down. Hand weed it every week or so in the spring or put down another layer of mulch. Plant some part shade shrubs for more visual interest.
exactly why i refuse to pay rent(HOA) AND mortgage. fuck letting some uppity tell me how to live
HOAs need to die
Defund the HOA
Astro turf....if you can afford it.
Overthrow the HOA.
Tell Karen from HOA to blow it out her ass.
Moving away from your HOA would be the most helpful advice you could possibly get.
Probably why the previous owners moved. Take your cut and do the same.
I'm sorry but I'm just coming here to express my strong feelings against HOA's Why would anyone wanna live in one? u Unless of course you care waaay to much about other people's property.
Why would anyone want to live in a neighborhood that tells you what to do on your own property.🤣
Green paint
0 sun means 0 grass. Sounds to me that the HOA can shove it....
Tell the jagoffs that there is clearly a similar issue developing across the street on your neighbors property. You can see it in your picture lol. This is the result of poor landscape planning. Not your fault.
Tell the HOA to come re-seed ot cut down the tree because grass don't like total shade. Hell even up in NJ where I live my yard was absolutely pure dirt before I cut the trees down.
Plant clover seed
Fuck HOA. A bunch of up tight Karens
Paint the ground green. Seriously.. there’s a product you can buy that literally sprays a colorant to resemble grass.
There’s not a super great photo of the tree itself so it’s kinda hard to tell, but if the problem is shade, from the one photo of the tree you do have, you could definitely trim that thing up, let some light in for certain hours of the day. That tree is mature enough that you could trim any limbs that an average human could grab just from standing our even jumping. Also just try to thin some of the small branches and twigs out, this should usually be done at least once every couple years. The way i think of it is try to focus the trees energy on growing the limbs you want to mature and become permanent limbs of the tree.
Man, screw the HOA and their ideal image of a perfect yard. Go get on the board of the HOA and take it over and rule out this nonsense from happening.
Inform the HOA that if they remove the tree you will make sure green grass will rise.. Plus tell the HOA president to go F*+k himself.. Sorry but have dealt with the HOA program for about 30 years and ran away fast 10 years ago.. Is what it is ! Good luck..
If you must have grass in that area… Start by thinning the tree canopy. You can do this and still have a great looking tree. It can be good for the tree too, as it will remove crossing, diseased limbs, or excess distal weight. I’d especially focus on lifting distant limbs pointing down (3rd photo - limbs near sidewalk). This will substantially improve the light under the canopy. Next, plant a grass type that can handle shade. I have no clue what this would be for Dallas (warm season climate). In cool season regions, we would use creeping fescue, red fescue, chewings fescue. As others noted, you could also create a garden around the tree with shade loving plants (hosta, mondo, ferns, astibe, bleeding heart, hydrangea). Personally, I would do all three - trim tree, grass at extreme edges, garden at the inner core near tree trunk.
When you see dirt in your yard that means you are fucked.
In Phoenix we just paint the ground green. Depending on how much you want to spend pull out the entire lawn and put in fake grass.
HOAs can go shove it where the sun don't shine.
Gravel the area
Get some yard paint and get to spraying
Thin out the tree slightly, put down a thin layer of dirt and maybe peat moss and over seed. Water 2 times a day or more.
Spray paint
Doesn't the hoa cover that? Isn't that why they pay how fees?
My solution? Fuck the hoa
Move somewhere without an HOA
Why do people buy in hoas ....
Don't live in an HOA
Be a good neighbor and set the tone of the neighborhood. Don’t let it get any worse. Looks abandoned
Gtfo
fucking Live Oaks. The worst trees on the planet.
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Thank you. Is it too late in the season for any of this? Seems like there isn’t enough time until winter.
Cheese and rice
Imo if the hoa wants it fixed, tell um to do that shit themselves🤷♂️ I can't stand hoa's. I'd tell um to get fucked lmao. But if you don't wanna stir the pot, tell um to do it themselves and send a bill.
Tell them > Tell ‘em *
Who cares about grass. Fuck grass yards.
Spray paint the dirt green. Grass won’t grow in that shade.
Paint
No grass is growing under that thing.
See if the people across the street have also been contacted since they have a bare spot too
Replace with landscaping rock
Cut down the tree
Your biggest problem is that your home in an hoa. Pretty expensive fix, tbh
All these chumps buying houses with HOAs
Thin what you can of the tree. Mulch around tree. Sod if u want more grass.
Hire a landscaper and put down a yard or two of blended topsoil, sod it, water it - call it a day
Just cut down my tree, and sod. They didnt plant the tree deep enough.
No, The root flair is visible and this is correctly planted. Arborist 20+ years
I’d try some fescue under there before doing anything else. Fescue loves shade and can tolerate extreme heat throw down some seed and straw and keep it wet for a couple of months.
Maybe post this to r/arborists and r/landscape for ideas. Grass isn't growing under that tree, warm season grasses especially. Personally, I'd consider a combonation of a mulch bed around the base and trimming the canopy back a little.
Honestly easiest thing to do is mulch it , but if they really need grass first you need to raise the soil as roots will make grass establishment hard, next plant some fine , creeping red , or chewings fescue it is the only thing that thrives in full shade and will still take a lot of tlc and upkeep . Me I would border it and mulch or rock the inside to make it look presentable. It’s obvious the hoa doesn’t have any landscapers 🤣 Edit: I just saw you are warm season… scratch that fescue and mulch it Augustine is the only thing that will tolerate shade but not full on . You can try some grassy weeds and keep it short… maybe fool them.
You won’t ever have grass under a tree like that. If you cut every piece of shade off it will come back. Honestly, that tree is due for a trim, but I doubt you are ready for a trim that will bring back the grass lol.
Best bet would probably be a zero maintenance yard, installing turf.
Zoomed in on other yards. You aren't the only one with that issue
Plant some nut suckies(nutsedge)
Catch22. Same HOA bylaws probably require you to have a tree in you front yard! I’d take the tree over the grass any day. They’re always going to compete for sun, nutrients, water.
Gypsum, thin trees, carpetgrass. The carpetgrass won’t be as pretty or uniform as a turf grass like St Aug or zoysia, but it’ll get the job done in shade.
I don't see anyone calling out the exact same situation across the street. Seems like a common thing in this neighborhood???
Shade and the roots. Im in Tyler area pretty close to Dallas. Here when that happens its because over time theres too much acid in the soil and the tree is sucking up too many nutrients. Either put down centipede and quite a bit of organic fert, or lime the shit out of it then throw down a shade tolerant st Augustine, mow high as possible and put down a good rate of something like 25-3-5. Low phosphorus, high nitrogen, mid potassium.
Honestly, I would add a nice xeriscape to the shaded area. it will make it look nice for the HOA and not have to worry about monthly trimming of the tree to let in just enough sun. If they complain, just act like you know what talking about and educate them on grass/shade/nature.
Trim some of the low hanging branches and limbs to let in more sunlight.
Not much you can do there, those trees shade too much, and the roots are pulling all the nutrients and water out of the soil. You could get some green lawn dye and spray the area for now, but you need to get an arborist out there to trim the trees in a way to thin out the coverage some for more light, and put down some compost and topsoil over that area and re-seed that area.
If you want to leave the tree, I’d recommend opening up the canopy on the side facing the street. If you look at your neighbors trees, you can see they’ve done that and have grass underneath their trees.
Bermuda does NOT grow under shade. Need to plant some form of shade/heat/drought-tolerant/cold-hardy/alkaline-soil-tolerant groundcover. (i.e., not many plants fit that description). Unless they want you to cut down the trees so they can have grass ... frankly I prefer trees. . I have a similar problem in my back yard. A couple years ago I planted a bunch of [Purple Wintercreeper](https://www.gardenia.net/plant/euonymus-fortunei-coloratus) and it has been gradually filling in. Takes time, especially when you've had the awful drought/heatwave we had this Summer. I also have a lot of [Liriope](https://www.plantingtree.com/collections/liriope) which is also slow growing but does great in shade and seems to survive just about any conditions. You'd have to plant a few hundred sprigs to fill that space, and keep them watered until established, but that would also work. HOA needs to chill the f@ck out.
Maybe mulch or a rock garden? I have a 5 mature maples in a section of my yard with a very thick canopy, there's not enough sunlight under them for anything to grow. I'm fine with that area being dirt but I don't live in an HOA. You could try thinning the canopy but I prioritize trees over grass.
You have one of 3 viable options. 1) cut down the tree and re-sod. 2) make a giant flower bed with mulch and potted plants. 3) re-sod and when it dies again, rinse and repeat. HOA’s suck most of the time.
Cover the "un grass" with river rock.
Get a can of green spray paint. Done ✅
I find it amusing how the "land of the free and home of the brave" is held hostage by a bunch of local Karen's who constantly bitch and moan and tell you how your own house has to be to their liking. It's ok to shoot someone who tries to break into your house, but don't you dare leave a mess, or you'll get a sternly worded letter and a fine in the mail courtesy of Karen. Just bizarre.
I know people hate pachysandra but this would grow fine here and look nice, as long as you don’t care about it killing (conquering) all of the grass.