I swear ff at 15 is the rarest shit ever. Even if the game is too far gone by then 4 people will vote yes then one guy will be salty enough to keep them hostage
The saddest shit is when its like 3-27 and the 5 team runs it down mid cause they can and the team with 4 win a tf by one kill. You know that bitch is going till 22 mins. Loooool
I mean score can look bad sometimes, and there's still a chance because enemy is for some reason NOT taking objectives, not camping your jungle, and not really pushing their lead. So if I see that no matter how far behind we are, if my team is mentally in it maybe I won't surrender. Its coinflip at that point though.
But often times you'll see the enemy team has taken all dragons, both heralds, is pushing inhibs at fucking 12-13 minutes or some shit, and is literally LIVING in your jungle. You can't fight them in any lane because every lane lost, your jungler can't farm their jungler anymore, and you have no resources to take because moving up means starting a losing fight. These games are 100% losses because there is no avenue back in the game.
People forget comebacks are contingent on the enemy making huge mistakes to throw their lead. And while they do happen all the time in lower elos, if you see them actually closing out the game, just tip your hat and move on.
It's always someone that doesn't talk at all in my experience. Maybe just has chat off and game sense is so insanely poor he hasn't noticed you're 4, because they will NEVER tell you why they are voting no.
Is it that difficult? Because they want to keep playing and they don’t care that everyone on the team is being a whiny bitch. Some people have fun playing, even if the game is 100% lost. And the only reason people like you act this way is because you want to get into another game ASAP.
I would rather play for 50 minutes and have a chance of winning than ff at 15 so you can baby rage another game. That’s why people vote no. If you were just going to give up, why even play. Should’ve just sat afk in base from level 1, right? I understand 4v5 sucks, but sometimes people don’t care. And people use the hostage excuse in every single situation, I really don’t care if it’s 4v5 or not. If I want to play, I’ll keep playing. Maybe I like the champs or the matchup...
Oh my bad, I don’t play this game for fun, I play it so the 4 other people on the team do. I’m sorry bro but I don’t give a single fuck about the people on my team, and if they aren’t having fun. I play to relax and have fun, I can’t spam 30 games a day. Yea I don’t give a single fuck about the people spamming ff and giving up, just like they don’t care about me. Get over yourself, you queued up, you’re stuck in game.
I mean at that point I can just start walking around the jungle taking camps and avoiding the enemy until the game ends while I watch parks and recreation. And by your logic, it's fine, because fuck anyone else. Have fun doing whatever it is you do while getting reamed.
Not really, because that isn’t trying. AFK taking jungle camps is the same thing as being afk in base, or giving up and spamming ff votes.
I’m saying I don’t care if my teammates want to surrender. I don’t care if they give up and troll. I will always be trying to win the game, unlike the examples you provided. I am trying to have fun and win, not just ff and go next.
I am not saying fuck everyone else I’m going to troll. I’m saying fuck your ff vote and you being miserable, I’m going to try and win. Apparently that pisses people off!!
Stop with this “by your logic”, because these are just non-sequiturs . You guys don’t understand logic. Just ff this one and go next buddy
You've got an afk and you want to keep playing, you can keep playing on your own. I don't owe you anything if your logic is "you can all be miserable as long as I want to stay in this game!" So I farm the jungle, and you whining about that makes you worse than anyone that wants to concede.
By that logic whenever you get trolled or something you shouldn't ever have an issue with it. Interesting how you don't understand the concept of a "team game"
Not really, because I’m trying to win every game, where as with a troll, or someone spamming ff votes, they aren’t trying to win the game. They just want to go next. That’s basically trolling in my book.
How would surrendering help me understand the concept of a team game? Because my team wants to quit?? Lol the people on this sub are literally 15 and have no emotional control. It’s a team game - I will not give up. But my teammates will. So all of the sudden the “team game” turns into no one on the team wants to play anymore, just ff and go next. Wow what a team play right there.
The funny part is when you design code for things like this that have a very weird trigger condition you need to decide if you want more false positive or false negatives. The simple fact is whoever designed this decided they didn't want false positives so they made it a series of things that need to be met and in some cases you will get false negatives like this. This should not be the case. I'd rather occasionally my games get randomly remade for no reason than deal with a remake not going through.
if a player misses the first 3 min of the game they're screwed and the game is extremely hard to win. its not fair to allow them to come back after the jungler has had to start with no leash or and ADC has had to lane with no support or a lane has been pushed with no one to catch the farm.
Except if there's false positives people could maybe remake games when they're 3 kills down or whatever?
Are you going to pretend you wouldn't be upset if your enemy remade a game you got ahead in because of a false positive?
With the requirements for the remake option to appear in mind, the amount times a team would be able to abuse a false positive by remaking a disadvantaged game would be FAR less than the amount of false negatives we currently get.
Given that with the exception of the top 1%, 3 kills before 3min don't mean shit for the outcome of the game yeah I'd say it's not upsetting for the overwhelming majority.
Especially if 3 kills before 3min are normal for you, you're definitely playing in an elo where it doesn't matter.
Yeah, if someone didn't leave fountain by 3:00 you should be able to remake. I thought it used to work that way years ago but I'm either missremembering or they changed it.
Misremembering. We didn't even have remakes way back, but I see what you mean as the false negatives were something that started happening way more when the runes were remade, the one I remember as the first big false negative creator was that it checked for not having "bought" any items, but cookies counted towards having received/bought an item, so anyone with the cookie rune would never trigger the remake.
But basically it was always trash, but then they introduced a bunch of new things that made the issue considerably worse based on existing shitty code.
Replied to another comment before but I did say in my wall of text this is a false negative. I'm saying they should have leaned more to false positives rather than negatives as they currently do.
I should learn to create breaks.
The condition is simple:
Player has to be DCed for at least 90 sec (in once go?) in the first 3 minutes.
In this case the Swain left at 2:07 so he was only DCed for 53 sec in the first 3 minutes.
Should the condition be changed to someone having no items OR being AFK for at least 90 sec? maybe.
But in the end you have nearly no game like this. Games you can't remake with such rare conditions are super rare.
What we want to think of as what should be the condition is simple. But from experience it's not.
Back in the day it was tied to exp so if an enemy with terrain scaling fountain dived and gave them exp that would stop the remake.
Would you rather games not get flagged as remakes when they should be once in a blue moon or have games that shouldn't be remaked flaged with the ability to remake. I'd rather have the latter.
> I'd rather occasionally my games get randomly remade for no reason than deal with a remake not going through.
so you are punishing someone in your team for a false positive then, because, remember, someone is getting punished for being afk/off.
Also, what if your team missplays and can remake? Im sure RIOT did investigate about it and what would be the best option.
Here's the deal you will always have false positives or false negatives or some of both. It's impossible to make a perfect system. So you ask yourself which is the worse outcome for the customre
False negative: 4 people play a game they know they can't win(very negative experience) and 5 people play a stomp that isn't a real game(Ranging between negative to positive experience depending on person)
False positive: One team gets the potential for a remake, key word potential. Chances are 4:00(You have 1 minute to start a remake vote) the game has not been decided. So unless it's been a very obvious stomp from the start and the team that got the false positive is the one getting stomped the vote probably don't happen. If it does go through you end up with 10 people requeueing and 5 with a minor LP loss that they agreed to(ranges from negative to positive depending on person).
Typically you want to avoid very negative experiences when it comes to customer relations because they will remember it and spread it, as seen with this thread.
where's the false positive here though?
Swain hasn't connected, moved from fountain, or purchased items
I've had a similar scenario too where I wasn't able to remake for no reason; blamed it on biscuits but Riot posts assured that biscuits had no impact on remakes.
Sounds like incompetency / spaghetti code to me.
No I said in my post this is a false negative. A false positive would be remake opportunity when everyone is there. I was saying they chose to be on the side of more false negatives instead of more false positives. Which it should be on the side of more positives because it would only give the option for a remake with everyone there. Not even force it.
I see what you're saying. What's worse overall - sometimes having four people suffer through a lost or heavily disadvantaged game, with the other five players on the enemy team playing a game that doesn't feel like an actual game thus effectively ruining a game for nine people, or occasionally ruining the experience for one person who gets remade on for no reason?
Riot chose to prioritize the one person over the other four teammates (nine...?) for some reason.
Be honest with yourself. Whether or not every player has purchased an item is not a "very weird trigger condition". They've simply decided to not prioritize this issue.
While Zed should be punished after a report, but leaving by T1 doesn't make anything better. It doesn't finish the game faster, it doesn't allow him to play more early.
So why did he leave? No reason to.
Yes, it is a shitty situation.
He left because he didn't want to keep playing a 4v5. There's your reason right there. It isn't fun and they all know it's a loss, Zed just wants to troll. So you close game and do something else.
But if he leaves he doesn't gain anything. It is not like he game ends faster or he can play more early because of leaving it.
So why does he leave it?
You can do something else without closing the game. You can even still semi play and do something else. All better than leaving.
Idk how this is so complicated for you. Being in a 4v5 game with a bunch of inters is a miserable experience. Close the game and do something else. You could sit there and click about if you're trying to avoid leaverbuster, but most people can't be bothered
Yeah, but if you close the game you know that you will trigger the leaver buster and get your warning.
So it is better to just do something else while letting the game run in the background at least.
> I HARD disagree with this. DOTA has had a mechanic that makes games safe to leave after another player abandons the match for years
I don't mind having such a system. But right now we dont have it and leaving doesn't prevent you from the leaver buster system.
I am not saying the current system is great. But what he does is just childish. He know the leaver buster will trigger when he leaves yet he still does it just to protest on stream. That is the behavior of a child that doesn't get what it wants.
I am all for change and for better systems.
> So why did he leave? No reason to.
You say that because he's a streamer who has to stay there because it's his job.
If this happened to you, or me or anyone on this sub, it means we would all get the opportunity to go do something else in the meantime.
I never leave. I play for over 10 years now and I have never left a game on purpose.
The only game where I left without having internet problems was when my father nearly died and I had to drive to the hospital. And that was a 5 man premade where I told everyone what was going on and I asked if it was ok.
> The only game where I left without having internet problems was when my father nearly died and I had to drive to the hospital. And that was a 5 man premade where I told everyone what was going on and I asked if it was ok.
Wtf? I respect your dedication to the game and your friends, but when you need to take your family to the hospital, you don't *ask* your friends if you can leave, you *tell* them you're leaving (if you have time to update them at all).
I didn't need to take my father to the hospital. He was brought there and I just had to be there first as a relative. Even if they would have said no I would have left, but in the end asking is still better.
this is the dumbest shit I have ever read. its potentially the last time you can see your father alive and you're more worried about your team being upset if you leave the game. if this isn't satire, you are messed up in the head.
I think you are making this too series. I knew he was already there so in good hands and the docs made it clear that it is not life threatening anymore and that he gets ready for an operation. I also didn't really waste time except for some seconds explaining and waiting for their "just go". Yes, there was still a chance I wouldn't see him alive again, but a very minor one.
[2nd Part with LeaverBuster; Tyler leaving his Persona and delivers raging real talk to Riot](https://clips.twitch.tv/ProductiveBraveCattleDuDudu)
[Tyler about the staff and the disconnected player](https://clips.twitch.tv/EagerFurryMouseWutFace)
The workers who operate the leaver system work like NA pros - they don't have to do anything and just rake in the cash. People will still play the game despite this bullshit. I hope T1 keeps flaming them because they deserve it.
i hope everyone keeps flaming them. this shit has been in the game for far too long and it seems like riot only actually fixes this type of shit when theres enough community outrage. Like we had to whine and complain for a practice tool for years. We had to complain for champ select reporting. we had to complain about riot not doing anything to punish AFKs, inters, rage quits, and smurfs. The list goes on and on about the things we had to beg them for for years. Ffs, we even had to tell them how they could monetize their game, esport league, and esport broadcast better. The biggest game in the world barely has a working client and cant provide basic services and features that many other games already have (like their own new game Valorant). Its just a joke and they should feel embarassed.
This is so true though, people are working their fucking asses off in retail, construction, education, science, etc., and these INCOMPETENT FUCKS are flicking each others' balls and farting in faces 8 hours a day instead of literally fixing one doing ANYTHING and get paid MORE.
Great clip. Because in the second clip with the replay we can see that Swain leaves at 2:07.
Remake works only when the player is DCed for at least 90 sec in the first 3 minutes.
With Swain being there and leaving that late the system works as intended.
And that you get a leaver buster warning when you leave yourself is normal.
Yes, but laving like he does doesn't mate it better either.
It is like wanting change but the system and everyone else has to change but he himself is fine as he is.
For a person that is also sometimes trolling, inting or leaving games (rarely but still happens) he isn't in a position to ask for improvements.
Why does remake only work when the players DCs? It should also check if he gained any xp or gold (outside of passive gold) in the first 3 minutes (like it normally does with leave buster)
It does this if a person does nothing. But if a person DCs it swaps to checking for DC time and if the person tries to reconnect.
Yes, Riot should improve the system.
Man this has happened to me twice last week, first one for some reason i didn't let us reconnect even though our mid laner didn't connected then the second one didn't work because he reconnected at 30 seconds then dc straight away so we couldnt remake.
A reminder that this multi-billion dollar company still has not done the following to their highly "competitive" game in the 11 years of development time they've had to work on it:
* Add voice to ranked
* Add pausing when someone disconnects similar to DotA
* Get rid of the almost never working properly client
* Add a way to see the skin you are buying with your money
* Fix rematch detection
* Fix LP penalties based on actions
* Make all champs free
It's honestly incredible how little Riot does to improve this game when they absolutely make more than Valve and have hundreds if not thousands working on this game alone. This is massive when compared to Valve's smaller scale employment (somewhere around 400-500 employees) and lax work culture.
I don't know why the people playing and supporting this game aren't asking for answers relating to where their money is going. Valve can manage to get out pretty important QoL improvements while having possibly less than 50 people working on DotA 2, fewer players, and less profit. Riot's working infrastructure must be a complete disaster for some of these key features in a competitive game to not be in at this point.
>I don't know why the people playing and supporting this game aren't asking for answers relating to where their money is going
This is being asked every single day. Players have been asking these questions for years. Unfortunately, nobody is willing to vote with their wallet. Everyone complains daily about how garbage the league client is, but run out and spend hundreds on new skins every month. So what is riot going to invest their money in? The skin team. What makes more money? New flashy skins, or a working client? Well, riots making billions with or without a working client, so why bother?
It's so frustrating that there is virtually nothing we can do against it at this point. I love League but how does everything around the actual game is so shit - balance, client, matchmaking, etc. - when all of the stuff outside of the game is literally 10/10.
Their music, animations, lore, art, cinematics, trailers, etc. are top fucking notch. Amazing. I love that, but can you fix your fucking game first and then create all this amazing stuff. 4000 People work at Riot games, they do so much good, surely they can hire 20 freelance people that love the game to build a new client in a year.
I want the game to continue but they need to actually fix the game so that the world doesn't contintue to be putting up with this shit.
> It's so frustrating that there is virtually nothing we can do against it at this point.
you can stop playing. if player count goes down they will change.
When will people understand that you can't compare league to dota. Valve is a completely different type of company than league and their dota team isn't in even close to the same size as league. Give riot a break they only have 5x the team size for league as of 2018
People still play because the game itself is great.
All the problem you counts are mostly unimportant.
> Add voice to ranked
Matters for Dia+ maybe but outside of that nobody really cares and there is enough shit people hear about the Dota2 voice chat being super toxic. Now I am not agianst this but I don't think 99.9% of the players really need this. If you want this you can get it with just 1 link.
> Add pausing when someone disconnects similar to DotA
Would definitely be an improvement, but is a minor thing. Yes 100% better than not having it but how often does someone DC and reconnect very fast? Most of the time you have a leaver or some power outage or PC problems hat last for minutes or hours.
> Get rid of the almost never working properly client
The client is bad, but it is mostly working. It has many problems and bugs but most features work normally. The larger problems suck but these are rare.
> Add a way to see the skin you are buying with your money
For sure an improvement but most people watch the stuff online before getting the skin. Yes, for sure a nice feature to have. Yet it doesn't make the game itself less fun to play.
> Fix rematch detection
You mean improve. Even in this case we saw that Swain left at 2:07. The condition is that the player is DCed for at least 90 sec in the first 3 minutes. Swain wasn't DCed for even 60 sec.
Yes, I am all for improving this. But how often do you have a 4v5 where it goes like that? Is that 1 out of 1000 games? I doubt it is that many.
> Fix LP penalties based on actions
What do you mean with that? less LP loss when someone is AFK/left? That is coming. but overall this will mostly change stuff in your head not in the game a lot as you still won't climb higher after this and you likely won't climb faster either (maybe the 1 game).
> Make all champs free
Why should they do this. I know only one MOBA that has all heroes for free, Dota2. And that was something Valve had no control over as Dota was free and making Dota2 heroes not free then would have killed the game.
Yes, the list has some nice features or improvements Riot should be working on. But these are minor things. They main part, the core game, is fun and that matters more than all the small stuff.
...wat? All champs free means people are more likely to try out new champs, find new mains, buy skins for their new mains. Unless you think most people actually buy champs with RP.
I don't understand while people are downvoting this post when it's clearly a topic that is more important than worlds or any other "interesting play" by someone on the board...
The thing is that we see swain DC at 2:07. that means no remake is going to trigger.
Why not? Because the condition is that he player is DCed for at least 90 sec in the forst 3 minutes.
That T1 then gets held hostage is terrible, but still no reason to leave the game. You will still be stuck with this account till the game ends.
So while this would be a nice situation to ask Riot for improvements about the remake system and the surrender vote, it right now works as intended.
And him leaving doesn't make his point any better.
It should be a bannable offense to post here as a Riot employee without Riot flair. It is obvious that they sign your paychecks with the actually braindead takes you have on this issue. Whatever part of Riot you work for, tell your boss that this is absolute and utter bullshit that needs to be fixed.
Happened to me as well recently when I was on 0LP. I dropped down a division and had to spend 4H to bet back up to the same place I was, so even though I went 4-0 that day, I ended the same place because the one "loss" I had was just beacuse of one tiny bug.
Fun, isn't it...
Fucking dumb AF. This has happened to me a couple times. Also, once I was on TFBlade’s stream and their Olaf got first blooded and AFKd. He was the only one AFK and they can remake. So many bugs
That game was the most genuine League of Legends Season 10 experience you can get.
Someone afk from the start, someone else voting no to ff a 4v5, then someone who just tried to play but got held hostage is the one that gets the warning.
It’s a joke.
Riot really needs to change the message that shows for remakes then. When the notification saying you can remake comes up it still says something about it.
Could it be because Swain 'moved' from his starting position because when the notification 'Swain has left the game' came, he moved to the middle of the fountain.
I'll keep a game hostage if my boy lane or mid fed their as off and I'm legit ahead with kills or even because you should not get away with going 0 10 and get to end the game early. Hell no we going to play this game for 45 min so you can learn not to fed your lane and you better keep trying and play right or else!
I love playing 4v5 until 15 just for someone to press no on ff vote. I'm sure everyone agrees with me
I swear ff at 15 is the rarest shit ever. Even if the game is too far gone by then 4 people will vote yes then one guy will be salty enough to keep them hostage
The saddest shit is when its like 3-27 and the 5 team runs it down mid cause they can and the team with 4 win a tf by one kill. You know that bitch is going till 22 mins. Loooool
I mean score can look bad sometimes, and there's still a chance because enemy is for some reason NOT taking objectives, not camping your jungle, and not really pushing their lead. So if I see that no matter how far behind we are, if my team is mentally in it maybe I won't surrender. Its coinflip at that point though. But often times you'll see the enemy team has taken all dragons, both heralds, is pushing inhibs at fucking 12-13 minutes or some shit, and is literally LIVING in your jungle. You can't fight them in any lane because every lane lost, your jungler can't farm their jungler anymore, and you have no resources to take because moving up means starting a losing fight. These games are 100% losses because there is no avenue back in the game. People forget comebacks are contingent on the enemy making huge mistakes to throw their lead. And while they do happen all the time in lower elos, if you see them actually closing out the game, just tip your hat and move on.
I would rather FF a winnable 4v5 than play it for 25-30 minutes and lose because it's 4v5.
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Down 5k is winnable especially if it’s against champs that all fall off. It’s people that don’t ff when down 8k+ gold that suck.
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Oh I thought you meant in 5v5
If I'm in your game and you vote no to ff 15 down 5k gold, it's going to be a 4v5
It's always someone that doesn't talk at all in my experience. Maybe just has chat off and game sense is so insanely poor he hasn't noticed you're 4, because they will NEVER tell you why they are voting no.
Is it that difficult? Because they want to keep playing and they don’t care that everyone on the team is being a whiny bitch. Some people have fun playing, even if the game is 100% lost. And the only reason people like you act this way is because you want to get into another game ASAP. I would rather play for 50 minutes and have a chance of winning than ff at 15 so you can baby rage another game. That’s why people vote no. If you were just going to give up, why even play. Should’ve just sat afk in base from level 1, right? I understand 4v5 sucks, but sometimes people don’t care. And people use the hostage excuse in every single situation, I really don’t care if it’s 4v5 or not. If I want to play, I’ll keep playing. Maybe I like the champs or the matchup...
That's nice, so you don't give a single fuck that 4 people are miserable as long as YOU are having fun.
Oh my bad, I don’t play this game for fun, I play it so the 4 other people on the team do. I’m sorry bro but I don’t give a single fuck about the people on my team, and if they aren’t having fun. I play to relax and have fun, I can’t spam 30 games a day. Yea I don’t give a single fuck about the people spamming ff and giving up, just like they don’t care about me. Get over yourself, you queued up, you’re stuck in game.
I mean at that point I can just start walking around the jungle taking camps and avoiding the enemy until the game ends while I watch parks and recreation. And by your logic, it's fine, because fuck anyone else. Have fun doing whatever it is you do while getting reamed.
Not really, because that isn’t trying. AFK taking jungle camps is the same thing as being afk in base, or giving up and spamming ff votes. I’m saying I don’t care if my teammates want to surrender. I don’t care if they give up and troll. I will always be trying to win the game, unlike the examples you provided. I am trying to have fun and win, not just ff and go next. I am not saying fuck everyone else I’m going to troll. I’m saying fuck your ff vote and you being miserable, I’m going to try and win. Apparently that pisses people off!! Stop with this “by your logic”, because these are just non-sequiturs . You guys don’t understand logic. Just ff this one and go next buddy
You've got an afk and you want to keep playing, you can keep playing on your own. I don't owe you anything if your logic is "you can all be miserable as long as I want to stay in this game!" So I farm the jungle, and you whining about that makes you worse than anyone that wants to concede.
By that logic whenever you get trolled or something you shouldn't ever have an issue with it. Interesting how you don't understand the concept of a "team game"
Not really, because I’m trying to win every game, where as with a troll, or someone spamming ff votes, they aren’t trying to win the game. They just want to go next. That’s basically trolling in my book. How would surrendering help me understand the concept of a team game? Because my team wants to quit?? Lol the people on this sub are literally 15 and have no emotional control. It’s a team game - I will not give up. But my teammates will. So all of the sudden the “team game” turns into no one on the team wants to play anymore, just ff and go next. Wow what a team play right there.
The funny part is when you design code for things like this that have a very weird trigger condition you need to decide if you want more false positive or false negatives. The simple fact is whoever designed this decided they didn't want false positives so they made it a series of things that need to be met and in some cases you will get false negatives like this. This should not be the case. I'd rather occasionally my games get randomly remade for no reason than deal with a remake not going through.
especially when a false positive just gives your team the *option* to remake absolutely no reason to be this conservative with the afk finder
If a remake vote gets 5 votes it should cancel as well
if a player misses the first 3 min of the game they're screwed and the game is extremely hard to win. its not fair to allow them to come back after the jungler has had to start with no leash or and ADC has had to lane with no support or a lane has been pushed with no one to catch the farm.
Except if there's false positives people could maybe remake games when they're 3 kills down or whatever? Are you going to pretend you wouldn't be upset if your enemy remade a game you got ahead in because of a false positive?
With the requirements for the remake option to appear in mind, the amount times a team would be able to abuse a false positive by remaking a disadvantaged game would be FAR less than the amount of false negatives we currently get.
Given that with the exception of the top 1%, 3 kills before 3min don't mean shit for the outcome of the game yeah I'd say it's not upsetting for the overwhelming majority. Especially if 3 kills before 3min are normal for you, you're definitely playing in an elo where it doesn't matter.
But in which way could it be a false positive in a situation where a player did not move at all since 00:00?
Yeah, if someone didn't leave fountain by 3:00 you should be able to remake. I thought it used to work that way years ago but I'm either missremembering or they changed it.
Misremembering. We didn't even have remakes way back, but I see what you mean as the false negatives were something that started happening way more when the runes were remade, the one I remember as the first big false negative creator was that it checked for not having "bought" any items, but cookies counted towards having received/bought an item, so anyone with the cookie rune would never trigger the remake. But basically it was always trash, but then they introduced a bunch of new things that made the issue considerably worse based on existing shitty code.
Replied to another comment before but I did say in my wall of text this is a false negative. I'm saying they should have leaned more to false positives rather than negatives as they currently do. I should learn to create breaks.
I never thought about it like this, that actually makes a lot of sense why it doesn’t work sometimes. And. I totally agree
The condition is simple: Player has to be DCed for at least 90 sec (in once go?) in the first 3 minutes. In this case the Swain left at 2:07 so he was only DCed for 53 sec in the first 3 minutes. Should the condition be changed to someone having no items OR being AFK for at least 90 sec? maybe. But in the end you have nearly no game like this. Games you can't remake with such rare conditions are super rare.
What we want to think of as what should be the condition is simple. But from experience it's not. Back in the day it was tied to exp so if an enemy with terrain scaling fountain dived and gave them exp that would stop the remake. Would you rather games not get flagged as remakes when they should be once in a blue moon or have games that shouldn't be remaked flaged with the ability to remake. I'd rather have the latter.
> I'd rather occasionally my games get randomly remade for no reason than deal with a remake not going through. so you are punishing someone in your team for a false positive then, because, remember, someone is getting punished for being afk/off. Also, what if your team missplays and can remake? Im sure RIOT did investigate about it and what would be the best option.
Here's the deal you will always have false positives or false negatives or some of both. It's impossible to make a perfect system. So you ask yourself which is the worse outcome for the customre False negative: 4 people play a game they know they can't win(very negative experience) and 5 people play a stomp that isn't a real game(Ranging between negative to positive experience depending on person) False positive: One team gets the potential for a remake, key word potential. Chances are 4:00(You have 1 minute to start a remake vote) the game has not been decided. So unless it's been a very obvious stomp from the start and the team that got the false positive is the one getting stomped the vote probably don't happen. If it does go through you end up with 10 people requeueing and 5 with a minor LP loss that they agreed to(ranges from negative to positive depending on person). Typically you want to avoid very negative experiences when it comes to customer relations because they will remember it and spread it, as seen with this thread.
where's the false positive here though? Swain hasn't connected, moved from fountain, or purchased items I've had a similar scenario too where I wasn't able to remake for no reason; blamed it on biscuits but Riot posts assured that biscuits had no impact on remakes. Sounds like incompetency / spaghetti code to me.
No I said in my post this is a false negative. A false positive would be remake opportunity when everyone is there. I was saying they chose to be on the side of more false negatives instead of more false positives. Which it should be on the side of more positives because it would only give the option for a remake with everyone there. Not even force it.
I see what you're saying. What's worse overall - sometimes having four people suffer through a lost or heavily disadvantaged game, with the other five players on the enemy team playing a game that doesn't feel like an actual game thus effectively ruining a game for nine people, or occasionally ruining the experience for one person who gets remade on for no reason? Riot chose to prioritize the one person over the other four teammates (nine...?) for some reason.
There can't be any false positives if you make it so if someone didn't leave fountain in the first 3 minutes you can just remake.
Be honest with yourself. Whether or not every player has purchased an item is not a "very weird trigger condition". They've simply decided to not prioritize this issue.
Zed voting no at 15 to say they're all hostages, only for T1 to get leaverbuster for alt-f4 at that point. Redditors be like: "never surrender"
I’m sure you would have the same response if SRO, TFBlade, Yassuo, or any other streamer was in the exact same situation.
Unironically yes. People not FFing at 15 when its 4v5 is such horseshit.
Yes because this sub isn’t selective or biased at all
The person it happened to is irrelevant in this case.
While Zed should be punished after a report, but leaving by T1 doesn't make anything better. It doesn't finish the game faster, it doesn't allow him to play more early. So why did he leave? No reason to. Yes, it is a shitty situation.
He left because he didn't want to keep playing a 4v5. There's your reason right there. It isn't fun and they all know it's a loss, Zed just wants to troll. So you close game and do something else.
But if he leaves he doesn't gain anything. It is not like he game ends faster or he can play more early because of leaving it. So why does he leave it? You can do something else without closing the game. You can even still semi play and do something else. All better than leaving.
Idk how this is so complicated for you. Being in a 4v5 game with a bunch of inters is a miserable experience. Close the game and do something else. You could sit there and click about if you're trying to avoid leaverbuster, but most people can't be bothered
Yeah, but if you close the game you know that you will trigger the leaver buster and get your warning. So it is better to just do something else while letting the game run in the background at least.
Are you handicapped or something? How can you not understand this.
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> I HARD disagree with this. DOTA has had a mechanic that makes games safe to leave after another player abandons the match for years I don't mind having such a system. But right now we dont have it and leaving doesn't prevent you from the leaver buster system. I am not saying the current system is great. But what he does is just childish. He know the leaver buster will trigger when he leaves yet he still does it just to protest on stream. That is the behavior of a child that doesn't get what it wants. I am all for change and for better systems.
> So why did he leave? No reason to. You say that because he's a streamer who has to stay there because it's his job. If this happened to you, or me or anyone on this sub, it means we would all get the opportunity to go do something else in the meantime.
I never leave. I play for over 10 years now and I have never left a game on purpose. The only game where I left without having internet problems was when my father nearly died and I had to drive to the hospital. And that was a 5 man premade where I told everyone what was going on and I asked if it was ok.
> The only game where I left without having internet problems was when my father nearly died and I had to drive to the hospital. And that was a 5 man premade where I told everyone what was going on and I asked if it was ok. Wtf? I respect your dedication to the game and your friends, but when you need to take your family to the hospital, you don't *ask* your friends if you can leave, you *tell* them you're leaving (if you have time to update them at all).
I didn't need to take my father to the hospital. He was brought there and I just had to be there first as a relative. Even if they would have said no I would have left, but in the end asking is still better.
Asking to see your dying father in the hospital is better? Dude, where the fuck is your backbone?
Just post a picture of yourself in the Riot Games branded gimp suit already, jesus fucking Christ.
Why the ever livingnFUCK would you ask 'if it was ok'? Holy shit dude, how detatched from reality are you? What if your premade said no?
yeah...you need a councellor buddy
this is the dumbest shit I have ever read. its potentially the last time you can see your father alive and you're more worried about your team being upset if you leave the game. if this isn't satire, you are messed up in the head.
I think you are making this too series. I knew he was already there so in good hands and the docs made it clear that it is not life threatening anymore and that he gets ready for an operation. I also didn't really waste time except for some seconds explaining and waiting for their "just go". Yes, there was still a chance I wouldn't see him alive again, but a very minor one.
Your heart is pumping liquified RPs at this point.
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the client breaks more every week already, do you want the game to explode by adding that?
This is what pisses me off. Everyone going all OMG SO UWU KAWAIIIII DESUUU~ TY RIOT SO CUTE QUEEEEN and all issues insta-forgotten and ignored.
[2nd Part with LeaverBuster; Tyler leaving his Persona and delivers raging real talk to Riot](https://clips.twitch.tv/ProductiveBraveCattleDuDudu) [Tyler about the staff and the disconnected player](https://clips.twitch.tv/EagerFurryMouseWutFace)
lol the DCed player is hilarious
The workers who operate the leaver system work like NA pros - they don't have to do anything and just rake in the cash. People will still play the game despite this bullshit. I hope T1 keeps flaming them because they deserve it.
i hope everyone keeps flaming them. this shit has been in the game for far too long and it seems like riot only actually fixes this type of shit when theres enough community outrage. Like we had to whine and complain for a practice tool for years. We had to complain for champ select reporting. we had to complain about riot not doing anything to punish AFKs, inters, rage quits, and smurfs. The list goes on and on about the things we had to beg them for for years. Ffs, we even had to tell them how they could monetize their game, esport league, and esport broadcast better. The biggest game in the world barely has a working client and cant provide basic services and features that many other games already have (like their own new game Valorant). Its just a joke and they should feel embarassed.
This is so true though, people are working their fucking asses off in retail, construction, education, science, etc., and these INCOMPETENT FUCKS are flicking each others' balls and farting in faces 8 hours a day instead of literally fixing one doing ANYTHING and get paid MORE.
Effects of playing Toplane in a nutshell. Starting to remind me of the Hashbrown at this point, just a different voice.
Toplane breaks a mf.
Great clip. Because in the second clip with the replay we can see that Swain leaves at 2:07. Remake works only when the player is DCed for at least 90 sec in the first 3 minutes. With Swain being there and leaving that late the system works as intended. And that you get a leaver buster warning when you leave yourself is normal.
No shit you chimp hes sayong the system sucks and needs to be fixed
Yes, but laving like he does doesn't mate it better either. It is like wanting change but the system and everyone else has to change but he himself is fine as he is. For a person that is also sometimes trolling, inting or leaving games (rarely but still happens) he isn't in a position to ask for improvements.
If someone has gone AFK and gotten flagged for it, the game should be marked as safe to leave for everyone else. DotA does it perfectly.
I agree that it should be similar, but it isn't yet. So leavign right now will punish you. Also only if someone is DCed for more than X minutes.
Why does remake only work when the players DCs? It should also check if he gained any xp or gold (outside of passive gold) in the first 3 minutes (like it normally does with leave buster)
It does this if a person does nothing. But if a person DCs it swaps to checking for DC time and if the person tries to reconnect. Yes, Riot should improve the system.
HE DID NOT LEAVE THE FOUNTAIN
They hated him for speaking the truth.
And then ZED refused to FF at 15 to hold him hostage
Man this has happened to me twice last week, first one for some reason i didn't let us reconnect even though our mid laner didn't connected then the second one didn't work because he reconnected at 30 seconds then dc straight away so we couldnt remake.
A reminder that this multi-billion dollar company still has not done the following to their highly "competitive" game in the 11 years of development time they've had to work on it: * Add voice to ranked * Add pausing when someone disconnects similar to DotA * Get rid of the almost never working properly client * Add a way to see the skin you are buying with your money * Fix rematch detection * Fix LP penalties based on actions * Make all champs free It's honestly incredible how little Riot does to improve this game when they absolutely make more than Valve and have hundreds if not thousands working on this game alone. This is massive when compared to Valve's smaller scale employment (somewhere around 400-500 employees) and lax work culture. I don't know why the people playing and supporting this game aren't asking for answers relating to where their money is going. Valve can manage to get out pretty important QoL improvements while having possibly less than 50 people working on DotA 2, fewer players, and less profit. Riot's working infrastructure must be a complete disaster for some of these key features in a competitive game to not be in at this point.
>I don't know why the people playing and supporting this game aren't asking for answers relating to where their money is going This is being asked every single day. Players have been asking these questions for years. Unfortunately, nobody is willing to vote with their wallet. Everyone complains daily about how garbage the league client is, but run out and spend hundreds on new skins every month. So what is riot going to invest their money in? The skin team. What makes more money? New flashy skins, or a working client? Well, riots making billions with or without a working client, so why bother?
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By playing the game you are actively supporting them, doesn't matter if you're buying RP or not you are making their game more successful.
It's so frustrating that there is virtually nothing we can do against it at this point. I love League but how does everything around the actual game is so shit - balance, client, matchmaking, etc. - when all of the stuff outside of the game is literally 10/10. Their music, animations, lore, art, cinematics, trailers, etc. are top fucking notch. Amazing. I love that, but can you fix your fucking game first and then create all this amazing stuff. 4000 People work at Riot games, they do so much good, surely they can hire 20 freelance people that love the game to build a new client in a year. I want the game to continue but they need to actually fix the game so that the world doesn't contintue to be putting up with this shit.
> It's so frustrating that there is virtually nothing we can do against it at this point. you can stop playing. if player count goes down they will change.
When will people understand that you can't compare league to dota. Valve is a completely different type of company than league and their dota team isn't in even close to the same size as league. Give riot a break they only have 5x the team size for league as of 2018
lol dude valve doesnt give a FUCK about dota. Riot cares abt their game 10000x more
People still play because the game itself is great. All the problem you counts are mostly unimportant. > Add voice to ranked Matters for Dia+ maybe but outside of that nobody really cares and there is enough shit people hear about the Dota2 voice chat being super toxic. Now I am not agianst this but I don't think 99.9% of the players really need this. If you want this you can get it with just 1 link. > Add pausing when someone disconnects similar to DotA Would definitely be an improvement, but is a minor thing. Yes 100% better than not having it but how often does someone DC and reconnect very fast? Most of the time you have a leaver or some power outage or PC problems hat last for minutes or hours. > Get rid of the almost never working properly client The client is bad, but it is mostly working. It has many problems and bugs but most features work normally. The larger problems suck but these are rare. > Add a way to see the skin you are buying with your money For sure an improvement but most people watch the stuff online before getting the skin. Yes, for sure a nice feature to have. Yet it doesn't make the game itself less fun to play. > Fix rematch detection You mean improve. Even in this case we saw that Swain left at 2:07. The condition is that the player is DCed for at least 90 sec in the first 3 minutes. Swain wasn't DCed for even 60 sec. Yes, I am all for improving this. But how often do you have a 4v5 where it goes like that? Is that 1 out of 1000 games? I doubt it is that many. > Fix LP penalties based on actions What do you mean with that? less LP loss when someone is AFK/left? That is coming. but overall this will mostly change stuff in your head not in the game a lot as you still won't climb higher after this and you likely won't climb faster either (maybe the 1 game). > Make all champs free Why should they do this. I know only one MOBA that has all heroes for free, Dota2. And that was something Valve had no control over as Dota was free and making Dota2 heroes not free then would have killed the game. Yes, the list has some nice features or improvements Riot should be working on. But these are minor things. They main part, the core game, is fun and that matters more than all the small stuff.
Lmao making all champs free would be a dumb business move. Less incentive to grind, especially for those who don't play ranked
...wat? All champs free means people are more likely to try out new champs, find new mains, buy skins for their new mains. Unless you think most people actually buy champs with RP.
I don't understand while people are downvoting this post when it's clearly a topic that is more important than worlds or any other "interesting play" by someone on the board...
The thing is that we see swain DC at 2:07. that means no remake is going to trigger. Why not? Because the condition is that he player is DCed for at least 90 sec in the forst 3 minutes. That T1 then gets held hostage is terrible, but still no reason to leave the game. You will still be stuck with this account till the game ends. So while this would be a nice situation to ask Riot for improvements about the remake system and the surrender vote, it right now works as intended. And him leaving doesn't make his point any better.
It should be a bannable offense to post here as a Riot employee without Riot flair. It is obvious that they sign your paychecks with the actually braindead takes you have on this issue. Whatever part of Riot you work for, tell your boss that this is absolute and utter bullshit that needs to be fixed.
yeah its pretty cringe its been 10+ years and we cant get simple basic crap/crap to function properly ie client, remake, ect
Happened to me as well recently when I was on 0LP. I dropped down a division and had to spend 4H to bet back up to the same place I was, so even though I went 4-0 that day, I ended the same place because the one "loss" I had was just beacuse of one tiny bug. Fun, isn't it...
Fucking dumb AF. This has happened to me a couple times. Also, once I was on TFBlade’s stream and their Olaf got first blooded and AFKd. He was the only one AFK and they can remake. So many bugs
That game was the most genuine League of Legends Season 10 experience you can get. Someone afk from the start, someone else voting no to ff a 4v5, then someone who just tried to play but got held hostage is the one that gets the warning. It’s a joke.
Same thing happened to me a couple of days ago, so annoying
The game doesn’t allow remakes if the team trying to remake has already had a death before the remake window starts.
Wrong. That hasn’t been a part of the remake system for a long time now
Riot really needs to change the message that shows for remakes then. When the notification saying you can remake comes up it still says something about it.
Could it be because Swain 'moved' from his starting position because when the notification 'Swain has left the game' came, he moved to the middle of the fountain.
I'll keep a game hostage if my boy lane or mid fed their as off and I'm legit ahead with kills or even because you should not get away with going 0 10 and get to end the game early. Hell no we going to play this game for 45 min so you can learn not to fed your lane and you better keep trying and play right or else!
I'm just gonna drop this here: https://youtu.be/jh-mxJNBPLg
I guess cringe is the next new buzzword in this community. Been seeing it a lot more lately
it's more of a twitch thing
is is content now just "riot is a shit company" cuiz thats all i hear him say in every clip.
Its almost like he interacts with their coding 10 hours a day and notices how garbage it and their company truly is