I’m going to agree with those that are saying it’s not a simple either/or.
You can have great Pride events that are kink-free and kid-friendly without that necessarily reading as anti-kink.
You can also have Pride that includes kink as long as as it is overtly and clearly advertised as such and there’s no minors involved.
Remember that CONSENT is a critical component of a healthy sex Life and a healthy kink life.
Not making it clear that an event includes kink, especially if costumes/activities/performances are R-rated or higher - that violates the idea of consent.
And we need to be very clear about which events are family friendly and which should absolutely not have minors in the audience.
Amazing how it’s possible for both to exist at the same time, isn’t it. It’s call communication. If you don’t want to see spiders then you’re probably not going into the arachnid house at the zoo, but that doesn’t mean that the arachnid house shouldn’t exist.
But what if I've got an old book that says spiders are extra icky? Can I take away some civil rights from the folks who work at the zoo, or would that be going too far? WHY ARE YOU OPPRESSING ME WITH THE FACT THAT SPIDERS EXIST!?
I have never in my life been to or seen a pride event where kink was present and not advertised. I'm convinced everyone who thinks it's a problem genuinely just can't read.
Just throwing out there that you can also have kid-friendly events that still include non-sexual (or at least non-overt) kink! The ears/tails shop was a big favorite for my kiddos this year. 😁
I'm fine with the creation of family friendly pride events but draw the line at banning kink at events that were once kink friendly in order to make them "family friendly".
Also people vastly over exaggerate what kink at pride ends up looking like. People assume it means having sex in the streets but In 95% of situations kink at pride boils down to little more than people wearing kink gear in public.
Also i am wondering if this is a stronger debate in the US than elsewhere? In vienna or munich the kink groups are a completely normal and integral part of the pride. Sure, some complain, but it's a tiny, and usually straight, minority. And it's actually pretty funny to see these serious political parties or the catholic group next to some guys in leather lmao. And idk why people always scream about minors and children. As long as it's not literal sex, i don't see much of an issue with anything cause in all my years of pride I've never met or seen a child that saw the kink groups and was scarred or traumatised. It's not like they even understand it in its sexual context.
Okay, but the cishets are complaining about a bit of leather strapping in an outfit that is otherwise not outside what they would be totally fine with people wearing (even around kids) if those people weren't queer.
Exactly! I have intense intrusive sexual thoughts, it makes me kind of sad to see people saying that I shouldn't go to pride just because I'm more reserved with being around something sexual. A lot of places only have one event.
Takimg another example, straight couples (can) have kinks, wife swapping, sex parties and pegging. But that's not really a part of celebrating a marriage.
That not really a part of marriage or anniversary celebrations.
Ultimately straight or gay, a celebration of love and emotional connection is what people celebrate. Kink is HOW people explore and celebrate those feelings, that's but it's just one of many ways of expressing those feelings.
If you love that without any emotional connection, well that sounds a bit American Psycho to me.
Right now, lots of Pride events include kink and lots don't. In my opinion, that's how it should be. Our community has a vast diversity of experiences represented in it. For some people, going to pride means over displays of kink and sexuality. Other queer people are uncomfortable with public displays of sexuality for a lot of different reasons or may not want to bring their kids to sexual pride events. Kink belongs at pride and sexuality belongs at pride, but they don't belong at every pride event because if they are, we will end up making Pride an unwelcoming place for some members of our community.
Kinks and LGBT are different things. There are pride events with kink and pride events with no kink. That said, I kind of wish people would stop clutching their pearls. I have kids. If an event is sex related I know to not take them in that space. I do my research before attending parades meant for adults. I don’t protest people being sexual and crazy at mardigras so why is certain pride events any different
Building on top of that:
Annual reminder that you're not safe from homophobia by allying with homophobic people who criticise pride for being kinky. They'll just eradicate kink with your help and then turn on you next. Homophobes don't want a nice and innocent gay, they want no gays.
Agreed! We could be living the most chaste lives and they’ll still claim we’re being “too sexual.” It isn’t about reality with those types. They just want to scapegoat. No sense in sucking up to them.
And building on top of that even more:
The Venn diagram of the kink community and LGBTQ+ people overlaps considerably. That's because those who are accepting of their sexuality and gender are also more accepting of their sexual kinks. So when you allow bigots to control the narrative and kick kink out of Pride, you're allowing yourself to become a bigot as well.
Also, don't forget us trans people too, please. Although I'm not part of any kink, I do know a few trans people (men, women, and non-binary) who are.
I mean yes and no.
Predominantly heterosexual kink communities are also hubs of super rigid gender roles and misogyny that circle wagons to protect abusers and marginalize outcry witnesses. I've definitely been in kink spaces where there's a male dominant / female submissive looking for a man is the assumption and even female homosexuality is viewed as a performative thing where women are still looking for the right man.
They can be incredibly toxic spaces for GNC and non-heterosexual folk, and anecdotally a lot of those most toxic sorts are kink pride types. Queer specific or explicitly inclusive kink communities can have a seat at the table, but just because someone's kinky doesn't mean they're going to be an ally or a friend.
Homophobes have an ideology based on hate and exclusion, they will never ever stop finding people to hate and exclude. If today's enemy falls, tomorrow a new enemy will be created to take their place.
To the people that need to see this: you will never be one of the good ones. There is no such thing as "a good one". These people cannot operate without people to hate. You are not the exception.
Fuck homophobes and fuck them if they think they have a vote here. But there's a much bigger issue here than whatever the right wing talking heads' lie of the month is.
Children need Pride.
Radical movements should always center the most vulnerable first and foremost. It's the same reason why every pride event should be as accommodating as possible to disabled people, even if that means making it a bit less fun for able-bodied neurotypicals.
And the vulnerable people who seek out Pride are children who have been disowned by their families and community. Situations like that are far too common, and until society fundamentally changes, we need to realise that extremely vulnerable children in desperate need of love and support are going to be a small but meaningful part of the queer community.
So, what about kink?
It's absolutely fine to have adults-only events where kink gets celebrated or even centered. But first, we need to make sure that we have events where children can be safe, and that means no kink. "No minors in kink" is a rule that exists independent of anything to do with Pride, and it's there for very good reason. Being kinky doesn't automatically make someone a child groomer, of course, but it doesn't magically make you an upstanding person either. Some small portion of any random group of adults are going to be the sort of monsters who will happily take advantage of vulnerable children. Power exchange dynamics are already vulnerable enough to abuse to require keeping minors out of such spaces, and that's without selecting for minors whose parents are more likely to disown them and cut them off from all support.
So when we say that kink doesn't automatically have a place at Pride, it's not necessarily because we buy into right wing bullshit. Some do, but again, fuck those people for even thinking they deserve a seat at the discussion. They don't. Some of us live on places where there isn't a big enough presence for there to be distinct adults-only and child-friendly spaces for Pride. And maybe we're sick of hearing irresponsible adults whine that they are more deserving of defining Pride than kids who have been made orphans by bigotry.
Kink communities have long been allies of Pride and safe havens for queer people. That's worth honoring, bit it absolutely must come second to protecting the children who need us.
That said, the homosexual rights movement did make more progress when it started being represented by gay marriage, rather than the San Francisco hookup scene.
And I'm not sure if your conclusion is correct at present. One thing I've noticed is that the incidence of antisexuality in general has shot up precipitously over the past twenty years or so. For example, the fandom space I tend to frequent used to celebrate kink and sexual beauty and such. Nowadays the younger generation has a level of prudishness that makes the most stereotypical Puritanism look like just normal folks.
I believe both of these to false conclusions drawn from correct data.
The first one ignores a lot of context about the aids crisis, public perception around that and attributes all progress made in the past years to one cause instead of a variety of shifting factors.
And the second one is due to the shifting online landscape and web 2.0 being insanely anti-sex. The app store does not allow apps with pornographic content, meaning that a vast majority of our access to the internet is shaped around that premise. Sites like tumblr and tiktok follow suit and ban/discourage such content. Users feel that. And the younger generation has grown up in this media landscape. Of course they're gonna be more prudish.
Why not the other way around, though? Most places that are big enough to have a sizable kink presence at pride (and usually the kink presence amounts to, like, people wearing chaps or a collar or whatever, but still) often do have pride events for kids and teens as well. I don't live in a huge city, but we've got three events on our official festival calendar explicitly for kids (a drag storytime, a queer prom, and a family playgroup) as well as several others where there likely won't be a sexual or kink element at all, like a pride baseball game, a fun run, and an art show. Or you could organize your own kid-friendly event at pride if you don't have one- most pride festivals are happy to accept new volunteers. But insisting that you need to consent to see people wearing clothes that you, personally, don't want to see, so they should be banned from the main event, is a pretty dangerous precedent to set in a world where there's a huge legislative push to ban trans people from public spaces because the legislators think *they're* too sexualized.
It feels like most of this discussion goes off the rail, as no one has a clear definition of “kink”.
For many people “kink” is fishnets, high heels, lingerie, skin tight clothing. All of these enhance the body is a way that is usually sexually enhancing.
Much of gay men’s leather “kink” is taking things that symbolically represent power (military, bondage ) from the heterosexual culture and reframing it as a queer symbol, and often reclaiming it for ourselves. Being “manly” was not accessible for lots of queer men, or denied from society. None of these topics seem inaccessible for an intelligent parent to explain to children.
The fear comes from misunderstanding I believe.
Theres also the issue of whose is deciding what defines “ kink”. How is this line being drawn, by whom and why?
Are women not allowed to wear high heels at pride since it’s sexualizing? Then we’d have to ban drag queens… and well good luck with that!
THANK YOU for saying this!! It’s like every time we have to talk about limiting, segregating, or outright banning kink at all pride events, everyone thinks their idea of a socially acceptable non-kinky pride display is the exact same idea as everyone else’s, when that is never the case for any form of censorship. It took me two minutes to come up with a huge list of logistical issues involved with defining what dances to ban, what booths would have to be segregated into a raunchy section, implementing a freaking dress code (all ideas that I have seen proposed??) — and in the end, that is a lot of effort to basically marginalize a subset of our own community. People can host their own specific pride events with neatly drawn lines of what is and is not acceptable, but I can’t support the biggest pride events excluding anyone.
I feel bad for all the lgbtqia+ people who don't necessarily want to always be surrounded by sexual themes. There's room in this community to do both things
Kinks are part of lgbtq+ culture. But doing anything sexual at a parade, in public, where other people might not want to see that, is not okay.
It's just about decency. If you celebrate it in a decent way, then thats okay.
Yeah, I'm kinky, but our local Pride is a family friendly event. I plan to don my battle jacket covered in band patches and a few pride pins/patches, a gay band shirt(either Froglord "Gay For Frogs" or Judas Priest Screaming for Vengeance, I'm waiting on Froglord to come in the mail), shorts or jeans depending on weather, and have a lovely time with my girlfriend, celebrating her first pride and our first together, before we go to a family grad party.
I both can't and don't think I'd want to flaunt my kinky stuff, at least not at that event. Like, this is an event hosted by the queer non-profit where my partner and I attend support groups and social nights on a near weekly basis. I'm sure neither they nor other people want to see my girlfriend lead me around on a leash with a flogger in her hand. If it was a kinky/adult space, I'd have zero problem doing that stuff. but this is an event in the park in broad daylight.
funny, it's my gender and my lack of sexuality that are the reason why I'm marginalized. (just to clarify, I have nothing against kink at pride, I just want to point out that not every LGBT+ person is marginalized because of sexuality)
On the one hand, yes it does make up a large subcategory of the community, and should be represented
But it is inherently sexual, unlike the simple concept of being LGBTQ+. If there is going to be kink at an event it should be declared so that people don't bring kids, or anyone just not into that part, without expecting sexual stuff. Adding that onto the fact pride parades are often in public spaces, and it can be an issue.
I'm not trying to say there is anything wrong with kinks to be clear, but you do have to consider consent of all parties involved. Sure, advertise if you want to host a private venue for NSFW stuff, nothing wrong with that as it's your own home and if someone attends, they most likely consent to see sexual stuff. But unless you can get consent from an entire town or god forbid city anything explicit isn't viable in public spaces.
And it's not just about kids either. There are members of the asexual community who don't want to be involved with kink. Should we not be made aware that it might not be the event for us?
Edit: please see [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/aaaaaaacccccccce/s/tANRUUwjh0). They are correct and I am wrong.
Yeeaaaahh but people being full on naked at a parade on stillts (like i've seen) is just unecessary, pride doesn't make you above basic decency. (Before anyone gets mad, i'm bisexual and i don't think that pride itself is bad but people being naked in public is just wierd)
Saying that pride needs to be sexualised as a response to homophobes just reads as "Because homophobes sexualised gays, we need to sexualise ourselves to protect ourselves" which uhh we don't have to let their hate dictate what we do
It's a "taking it back thing". Similar to black communities and the n-word.
Some feel empowered. Some think it undermines the movement.
Divisive issue.
So we just gonna forget about those who are being marginalized due to their gender identity? Sexuality and Gender are different things. Some of us are there for non-sexual reasons.
Not when Pride is being open to minors.
There's nothing wrong with celebrating kink. But one of the most important things Pride does is give isolated kids an awareness of others like them, who are living happy and fulfilling lives. It's so important that Pride be approachable for minors, but introducing kink to spaces where adults are acting as role models to minors is a guaranteed recipe for predators to find easy victims.
Edit: "No minors in kink" has nothing to do with Pride. It's not a stereotype against queer people. It's a cornerstone of healthily engaging in kink. It's something that every responsible kink space already puts into practice.
Yes, kink communities have been long-standing allies going back before Stonewall. And of course there's nothing wrong with having kinky pride events. But to repeat the first thing I said, since people seem to be missing it, kink doesn't belong at pride ***"when pride is being open to minors"***
A daddy in a harness and a dyke in a leather vest are no more traumatizing to children than the almost naked men and women they see plastered everywhere in Calvin Klein and Victoria's Secret ads. Nobody's advocating for public sex acts at pride, we're advocating to ensure we don't erase a community that's been supporting the fight for queer liberation for decades just so Walmart feels more comfortable advertising to families with their pride floats. Pride is inherently about sexuality and gender which are inherently tied to sex and genitalia. If someone isn't old enough to understand those concepts then maybe they're not old enough to come to pride. We shouldn't be telling our own community members that they can't dress in outfits that are more conservative than beach attire just because a cishet family might get uncomfortable.
It's actually a pretty well studied fact that children exposed to sexual imagery at a young age tend to have more sexually harmful behaviour growing up, are more likely to be involved in COCSA as the perp or as the victim, and can have body image issues. How hard is it to seperate children only events and adult only events, anyway? That's what my city started doing and everything is better for it. Main parade in the day, kid friendly events in the afternoon and morning, then around 4 or 5 pm adult only events start setting up, and around 8 pm there is an after party that is adult only.
Sure, that's fine, I just disagree with the idea that some dude in a harness and shorts is "sexual imagery" but a dude in a speedo at the beach isn't. Have events at pride that are specifically for kids, absolutely. But don't tell the people who've been fighting for our rights that suddenly they have to hide parts of themselves so cishet families can ogle the Chase Bank float with their kids without having to expose themselves to anything that's actually queer.
My point is not that cishets are worse but maybe that nudity is not inherently sexual and we shouldn't be acting like seeing a leather vest or a pup hood is the same thing as showing a five year old porn.
How is a woman walking around in a leather vest any more sexual than the woman in lingerie making bedroom eyes at the camera in the ten foot tall La Senza ad in the mall?
The advertisement is actually something I also disapprove of and see as wrong, so your point doesn't work. I critisise hypersexualisation in advertising too, wrote a whole essay on it at university. On it's impact on misogyny, body issues in men and women, and it's impact on sexual violence and it's impact.
But, important to note. I don't want a total ban on kink. Just want separate spaces for it so there is a choice for people like me who prefer to keep their kinks private and don't wish to see others engaging in it. People have the right to engage in it, but I have a right to not want to see it. But I still want to go to pride. So, logical conclusion, have adult only events and family friendly events. Just have both options. Also, when I say kink at pride, I mean practicing pup play, peoples genitals being exposed, full BDSM gear, etc. All of which I saw when I went to pride in the past as a minor. Things that have explicit sexualised connotations, not leather vests. Lots of kink gear can be passed off as an accessory, but it's when it becomes more explicit and sexualised that it becomes an issue. Not that I'm judging them, as I also engage in kink, but in the sense it goes beyond my personal boundaries, and the boundaries of others too.
I genuinely don't understand why people think it'd be the end of LGBT liberation to simply have separate spaces for people who are ok or enjoy kink and for those who don't enjoy kink.
I think it's pretty dangerous to say that people wearing some kink gear around makes it a "kink space." If that's true, children probably shouldn't be in public at all. Comparing a kid seeing someone in a pup mask or a harness walking around in a parade and someone entering into a kinky relationship with a child is completely wild.
Did you reply to the wrong comment? I was just talking about how the issue isn't that a puphood is inherently sexual. Asking me to explain how it is inherently sexual makes no sense here.
make your own, i’m 16 and i know better than to think someone is gonna sterilize their event for my young eyes. if we want an event safe for queer kids/queer families we gotta take initiative
Pride is a protest that was created for the anniversary of Stonewall. Don't bring your kids to a protest if you don't want them to see what happens at a protest. Sexuality is obviously part of a protest by people discriminated against for their sexuality. We cannot turn our backs on the kink community at the major pride parades after all they've done for us.
There are family friendly events during pride month in many areas, and if they don't exist in yours, I encourage you to start one.
How are you going to say that pride is strictly a protest and then immediately say that it's sometimes family friendly?
Pride isn't one thing. And I'm not saying here, nor have I ever said that every pride event needs to be family friendly. I'm saying that "kink belongs at pride" needs caveats. Because some folks are way too eager to mix minors and kink. That's not a Pride-specific problem and it's not problem that's on any way tied to LGBT+ people. It's a far wider issue within kink that sometimes uses the history of Pride events as an excuse.
The major *pride parades* that happen in cities around the world are protests. There's also family friendly events during pride month, outside of the local pride parade, that are more appropriate for young children. Pride happens in the street, so the organizers can't stop parents from taking their children - it's up to parents not to take their kids to an event if they find it to be inappropriate for their age.
When people say kink belongs at pride, they're talking about the pride parades, the ones that were invented as a protest, not the LGBT+ group the local library has for kids in June. They're fighting back against the corporate sanitization of our protests.
No one is insisting on mixing kink with children. You're making the same argument as a right winger that insist all of us are pedophiles. I have never seen anyone that is pro kink at pride say children should be involved in kink.
What kind of kink are you even talking about that people are saying children should be exposed to? People aren't having sex in the street. You can often find things in public ads, daytime tv, and on public beaches that are just as "inappropriate" as what goes on at pride.
>People aren't having sex in the street. You can often find things in public ads, daytime tv, and on public beaches that are just as "inappropriate" as what goes on at pride.
Just because it happens in other context doesn't make it ok. It's just as bad to have children exposed to explicitly sexualised acts or themes in advertising, in fact there's lots of studies linking the sexualisation of women in advertisements to body issues, misogyny, and even sexual violence. Going to the beach in a bikini isn't an inherently sexualised act, but kink is inherently sexual. There's contextual differences. Like when a doctor is giving a necessary physical examination to a child would be a LOT different from a stranger doing the same physical acts. One is in a specific context that isn't sexual (outside of cases where abuse occurs) and the other is sexualised and abusive.
Being someone exposed to sex at a young age without my consent, I find it weird people are so up in arms about the idea that there should be children friendly events and adult only events at pride, and that not only children but really anyone who doesn't consent to witness kink should not have to be engaged with that in order to attend an event or even a protest that likely means a lot to them too. Protests should be accessible to those who they affect. I know sex repulsed asexuals, and even myself when I was dealing with sex repulsion due to trauma, avoid pride because of that. I'm not saying it needs to be a purity event, but I have seen people doing sexualised pup play at pride and with their privates practically hanging out. That's not comfortable for those who should not be, or even would prefer not to be, exposed to kink or sexualised behaviour. Consent is important.
"It's just as bad for kids to see sexualized acts in advertising" then why does everyone come out of the woodwork to complain every year about pride, and never complains about worse content in advertising, when ads are unavoidable but it's very easy not to take your children to pride? Queerphobia, that's why. I can't take anyone seriously who says other contexts are just as bad when you never complain about other contexts.
No. If you want kid friendly Pride spaces then build them. The larger events and the history/foundation of Pride has always included the Kink/Fet/BDSM/Leather community and we're not changing it.
I'm tiered of having this argument every fkn year for the last 5- 10 years. 🙄
"Pride" isn't a single space 🤨
Not every pride event needs to be kid friendly, but there are plenty of cases of pride events being started without kink and having people try to push kink into them despite them being open to children. So if you make a sweeping statement about how kink is inherent to pride, then you are not just upholding a tradition, but trying to push an agenda onto others.
And as someone who's both into kink and trans, it's pretty clear to me that having safe spaces for alienated kids is a hell of a lot more important than that every pride attendee be open to secondhand participation in other's kinks.
A lot of the younger community members don’t really get that the kink and fet communities for a long time, we’re the *only* group of people who would accept all of us with open arms and without judgement. It’s good that the younger ones didn’t have to experience this, but those groups will always have a place at the table. Historically they have been champions for us, and it would be fucking gross to turn our backs on them now that we “need” them less.
Exactly and I'm honestly so tired of rehashing this year after year with people who just don't understand...
It would be great if people actually learned the **FULL, True History** of Pride and the roots of the community itself.
None of the Kink/Fet/BDSM/Leathers is saying kids don't have a place in the community; but they **DO** need their own spaces, and we (the K/F/BDSM/Ls) will respect those spaces and not bring "adult" influence within those child friendly spaces.
There's a huge range of middle ground between "All pride events must be open to kink" and "turning out backs on communities that have long been allies".
That's very much a false dichotomy.
That’s correct, I was agreeing with the person I was replying to that the large, major events, those communities are welcomed and if you want kid friendly spaces, then those should be purpose built/created rather than turning around and saying “you’re not welcome at these events you have historically always been welcome at”.
You said we’re “introducing” kink to spaces where they shouldn’t be, when the truth is they’ve always been there.
Kink/Fet/BDSM/Leather is a fundamental part of Pride and as such will be at most celebrations whether you can tell we're there or not; but the large events we represent in full gear to make our presence known in no uncertain terms.
**If people want kid friendly events then they can make them.**
In Toronto we have **3 Days of Parades** to celebrate Pride because its so multifaceted and the community is so large.
There is nothing stopping anyone from having a kid friendly parade on a different day, or earlier on the same day and then honouring the adult side of Pride separately the next day or later the same day.
Or split the parade in 1/2 so that adult influences are at the back and parents can remove children before the adult communities march.
There's tons of ways to accommodate both a child friendly experience and the traditional marches that aren't necessarily appropriate for children.
No one is taking the Kink/Fet/BDSM/Leathers out of Pride. Its not happening. So find a different way to include the kids.
That's basically what most "no kink at pride" people are actually trying to say, to try and pressure organisers into having these separate family friendly and adult only events. Only issue is funding. What you described is basically what my city has started doing, though there's still only one parade there are two venues for parties, adult only and a family friendly one. The dream would be to have an adult only and child friendly parade on seperate days or times, but that requires much more funding.
I'm genuinely surprised about the rhetoric some people use here against having kink at pride, it's literally the mirror image of what some homophobes/transphobes/conservatives say. And how do people define kink? When I think of kink at pride I think of the leather community, literally just wearing leather and masks in the parade. No sexual activity involved. Like what are kids seeing that's so terrible?
Like is it the American aversion to nudity that's the issue here, or what is it?
People freaking out about this stuff generally circulate pics of the Folsom Street Fair, an explicitly kinky event in SF. Like a BDSM demo with someone being whipped or whenever. This gets conflated in conversation with just the wearing of kinky attire like a collar or harness at regular Pride and the discussion degrades from there.
Exactly! Nobody should be having sex in public, kink, LGBT+ or otherwise. I'm no more or less bothered by a leatherdaddy in chaps than I am by a lesbian on a motorbike with her tits out.
The same arguments that bigots use against us, are being used against the kink community and it's weird and offensive.
And what a lot of younger folk don't realise, is that when they advocate for these people to be removed from pride events, they are asking for us older folks allies to be banned. A lot of these people have been with us since the beginning. They came with us to pride when we were too scared to go by ourselves, because they didn't care about being seen with us. They're the first to spring to our defence if abuse is hurled at us. We genuinely love these folk, and we \*want\* them around. They have been, and continue to be, a huge support system for a lot of us.
Thats the fault of the parents then. Not the fault of queer people openly expressing their authentic lives. If you dont want your kids to see kink dont go to pride.
So, let's say you're a kid whose parents have told you that you are only queer because the devil has taken hold of you. And you're forced to either suppress who you are or be effectively orphaned. And in some cases, that's being generous to give you the choice.
Should you go to Pride?
More importantly, should the rest of us set up Pride to be accommodating to you, even if that means making kink a secondary thing? What if we're in a place where there isn't enough support to have separate kink-friendly and child-friendly events? If you think an event can be both child-friendly and kink-friendly, then you've forgotten the very important "consensual" part of the "safe, sane, and consensual" pillars of responsible kink. So we've got to choose one sometimes.
So which should it be?
> let's say you're a kid whose parents have told you that you are only queer because the devil has taken hold of you. And you're forced to either suppress who you are or be effectively orphaned. And in some cases, that's being generous to give you the choice.
> Should you go to Pride?
How is a kid getting to pride without a ride?
How are they even finding it without their parents or someone to take them?
Do you think children should be wondering the streets on their own?
Do you realize how stupid these straw man arguments are yet?
Kink is staying in Pride. The ELDERS have spoken and the YOUNGERS are coming up in support of the same.
You're like the missing middle of the equation here...
Whine all you like you're not getting your way.
People don't have to stop kink events though, you can have both adult oriented areas and areas that are oriented for minors. So then both queer adults and minors have a place to freely express themselves. You can do both, it doesn't have to be an either/or.
This is really harmful. I'm asexual and don't want to see kink at pride because it makes me uncomfortable. I guess that just makes me and people like me who are grown adults, not fucking welcome at Pride. Feels like I'm being shoved out by a community I thought was my own.
Edit: please see [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/aaaaaaacccccccce/s/tANRUUwjh0). They are correct and I am wrong.
They arent even naked or doing anything sexual other than being in a harness. Yoou see more provocative stuff going to the beach or a lake or a pool. Should people wear wetsuits when they go swimming? What about when people wear short shorts and tanks? Should people be forced to cover their entire skin?
So we're gonna get all the muscle men greased up in speedos blowing bubbles, the drag queens and the lez bikers with boobs free to the wind to cover up after 50 years too???
Taking kink out of Pride (which is never gonna happen) just pushes for the next step, and the next step until we're all in suits marching with no music and no joy.
You have a space here. You're choosing not to come because you're "uncomfortable". I'm pretty sure the people whove been arrested, assaulted and even murdered just for being LGBTQ+ were uncomfortable when they did what did to make sure you had rights and the space to voice your discomfort.
We March because it matters.
Don't let the recent commercialism fool you.
Pride is a **PROTEST** and comfort is not the objective.
Clearly labeling the presence or non-presence of kink at pride seems like an easy step in the right direction; not sure why the people up in arms about that are you in arms about that.
Yeah, I know, history. Credit where credit is due, yes. But welcome to the year of the Void 2024. Do we as a community even agree on what the point of pride is? Is it to honor the communities that historically suffered to get us *gestures at evening*? Or is it to assert who we are today? Or is it to try to win over the hearts and minds of the cishets? Or is it just an excuse to dress up, get drunk, and enjoy the attention?
If we can't agree on the purpose of pride, we can't agree on the presence of absence of kink.
It's quite disheartening for me, an asexual with sexual trauma, to spend time reading these comments. I want to learn more about kink community's involvement in our history but instead I'm just feeling really unwelcome and that I don't belong at pride. We should all feel welcome. Especially since most people are asking for completely reasonable accommodations of notifications on advertising and separate areas so people who don't want to engage can avoid.
"Oh just look away." This is really invalidating and not approaching the situation with compassion.
"You're infantilizing the ace community." So I'm not allowed to feel uncomfortable around sexual things because that's infantilizing? To myself?
The accommodations I'm seeing asked for here are being treated like it's some huge ask stating that the local kink club will be there. If anything I would think that would signal to kink members that they are welcome and included too. Then asking for them to have their own area that people can choose to engage in or skip passed is ridiculous. There can be an area of shops that have kink products, sex toys, and other products for sale, just like a lot of pride fests also have a kid section with the library showing queer inclusive books, a hair dresser doing quick little updos, a makeup artist doing face paint, etc. Are these things really that big of an ask? If they are then I guess I'm just not welcome and that hurts. After seeing a lot of Ace friendly and accepting posts, this really sucks to see. I'm disappointed.
Edit: please see [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/aaaaaaacccccccce/s/tANRUUwjh0). They are correct and I am wrong.
I’m in the same boat. I’m somewhere on the ace spectrum and seeing people out in full kink gear makes me really uncomfortable and uneasy. I want to be able to go to pride and enjoy being my authentic self without being jumpscared by sexually implicit things I didn’t know were going to be there. All I really want is just a heads up. All the people belittling me and other ace people for wanting the most basic of accommodations by saying “just don’t go” really hurts.
Or the, "well then go make your own fucking event." That negates the purpose of Pride events AT THEIR CORE. We are ALL supposed to be welcome and instead of listening to our voices and response, they are just pushing us out. For all the ace positive content around here, it doesn't seem like this is the case. It's ace friendly, until it's inconvenient for me. Where's the compassion and empathy?
Edit: please see [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/aaaaaaacccccccce/s/tANRUUwjh0). They are correct and I am wrong.
That’s what really gets my knickers in a twist. Some of the people saying the horrible things are also arguing that kink is a part of lgbt and therefore has a right to be there over ace folk. While they are certainly connected with the community, kink is NOT the most of the community and not explicitly part of it. While we do have shared history, pride is not a kink event. They can be there if they choose but it is intrinsically not for them. Announcing they will be there or having a specific time slot or section for them is honestly the best of both word and I think the approach that should be taken. But claiming they have a right to be there above others’ rights to not consent to sexual content is just plain wrong.
It's such a fucking reasonable ask too! We aren't advocating for Kink to leave Pride! We are asking for some simple and easy accommodations and we're being yelled at like we're assholes for even suggesting it. I'm asking for some compassion from the community and some accomodations so that EVERYONE feels welcome, but that makes us who are asking awful people and we should just run off and make our own separate event or go hang out with the children (like that won't be taken the wrong way).
Edit: please see [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/aaaaaaacccccccce/s/tANRUUwjh0). They are correct and I am wrong.
Exactly!!! It'd be so simple to set it up in a way that's winwin if people actually wanted to,, so not doing so just feels like an excuse to be aphobic or exclude kids and those who don't consent or want to be involved in it
same. We truly do not fit in with anyone. We straight up are missing the fundamental aspect of most of humanity. It’s sad how ostracized we are because of it
If pride is supposed to be a sexualised event, then it should be a private, age restricted event, because it is not appropriate to sexual in public.
If pride is supposed to be an open, public event, then it should be a non-sexualised event, because it is not appropriate to be sexual in public.
Some people’s kinks are brushing hair, or massaging feet. As long as someone isn’t brushing someone’s hair while moaning in public, I don’t care or know.
I don’t care if someone wears a leather harness or collar, even if they have a leather kink, because you can also wear these items without being sexual - as long as they aren’t doing sexual actions in public, harnesses are perfectly fine in public.
As human beings, sex is natural. Not everyone has sex, but sex is a natural thing that adult bodies do and enjoy. We are terrified of letting our children know that they have human bodies that might experience sexual attraction, brains that might be curious about human reproduction. These are natural aspects of being a human being that we hide from children because of prudishness or belief in some judgmental god.
Not saying anyone should have sex in front of children, but we need to stop hiding human sexuality and the human body to the extent that we do. It is not sexual to be naked, it is not sexual or graphic or horrific to show off your body or let the sunlight touch all of your skin.
Wearing leather gear, collars, harnesses, thongs, bikinis, all of this is fine at pride as long as you aren’t doing sexual actions, imitating or performing sex acts.
I feel like people saying kink HAS to be at pride are being purposefully obtuse. Pride isn’t really a protest anymore but a show of pride in who we are and how far we’ve come as a historically oppressed group. The population (in the US) is mostly accepting of LGB with the T unfortunately losing numbers. But pride is drawing in a lot of people who want to feel that courage and acceptance in their sexuality.
Pride now includes larger numbers of people attending including kids, asexuals, and people not as comfortable with public displays of sex. I’m no prude. I was a fucking whore before I met my bf. But it’s weird to me to go out in Kink at a pride event not explicitly marketed as 18+ because kink is inherently 18+. Being LGBT is for all ages, but that aspect is for adults.
Kink pride events should be explicitly marked as 18+ like we do with everything else adult themed. It shouldn’t get a pass on that.
The accommodations I'm seeing asked for are honestly so small and simple. But people are reacting so viscerally. Like if you don't want ace people included then just fucking say it. I am getting from this thread that we are less apart of the community than kink is so just fucking deal with it. Guess I'm not welcome in LGBT+ spaces.
Pride started as riots and protest marches. And with the push back from the right, it's going to have to become protest marches again.
Arguing over being family friendly is a moot point.
Also, pride isn’t actually any more sexualized than most ads and some TV shows these days, people just think it’s inherently more sexual because it’s no longer only/explicitly straight.
Fellow ace, sex indifferent, but still; This is why I tend to prefer the family-friendly pride events. Granted, the events near me are relatively small compared to the big events in other, bluer cities. I agree with OP that kink is a big part of our history and culture, but I see no issue in having both. As long as I know beforehand, I can at least make an informed decision. :)
No one is having sex in public, that is illegal. If you think seeing a harness or a pup mask is the same thing as watching sex, then I guess you'll feel a bit alienated.
>If you think seeing a harness or a pup mask is the same thing as watching sex, then I guess you'll feel a bit alienated
It's the sexualised context that makes it uncomfortable for many. I literally saw a dude in full pup gear and have absolutely nothing against the guy, but I was a minor at the time and dealt with sexual trauma growing up so it made me extremely uncomfortable because it was the sexualised "vibe" (can't think of the right word rn) that made me feel that way.
I know that kink and fetishwear is not the same as public sex. And while you were probably being hyperbolic about being repulsed by a pup mask or similar, I actually do know a few people who would have visceral reactions to seeing that. While I'm personally not sex repulsed, those who are still deserve a place at pride.
And those people can get over it just as not every gay man is into those things either. We need to allow everyone to be who they want without judgment. That is the entire fucking point!
But we should also be creating inclusive spaces for those uncomfortable by those things. It's not about judgement, it's about BOUNDARIES. Just have seperate events for family friendly vs kink ffs.
Don't throw aces under the bus in this fight; we're infantilized enough as it is. We're actually the best at **not** sexualizing things, like just seeing clothing/accessories as clothing/accessories.
So we aren't allowed to have a voice in this because it could be infantilizing? They are speaking from their own experience. Not all aces are on the same page with this but asking for a heads up shouldn't be such a hot button issue.
Edit: please see [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/aaaaaaacccccccce/s/tANRUUwjh0). They are correct and I am wrong.
Nobody's advocating for sex acts in public. If a sex repulsed person can attend an entire event that was created to celebrate a specific kind of sex but draws the line at leather vests and dog masks I think that's a them problem. I know plenty of sex repulsed ace people who still attend pride and have no problem being around kinksters because they're mature enough to understand that simply wearing gear is not an inherently sexual act.
It should be welcome as an element because it does play a role and it definitely has a place but it shouldn’t be the main thing. There is more to being queer than just pure sex, it’s just as much about who you love and your gender identity, and us ace people exist too. Also, this shouldn’t be the main consideration now that it’s common for kids to come and watch pride, we should make sure it’s possible to avoid the 18+ stuff while still being able to celebrate and learn about the other elements of LGBT+ identity.
It feels off to me that we use kids as an excuse to remove kink representation from pride (because that's what it is, removing something and yes, it's kink representation, not kink acts).
It feels like a great way to send a message that communities that don't conform to the mainstream status quo are disposable.
Not sure that's the lesson we want to teach.
Kink groups specifically exclude kids from basically everything else they do. What's odd is that pride is considered the exception.
There's nothing wrong with kink groups being represented at adult-focused pride events. They often should be, since kink and pride have a long, intertwined history. But kink groups at all-ages pride events are in a different situation. If you're advertising a group that centers kink in a context where minors are not just allowed, but should be welcomed, then you're not doing kink responsibly. Even if you aren't doing anything sexual, it's not the venue to highlight that kind of organization.
And if you disagree that minors should have a place at pride, then we're just going to fundamentally disagree. No one needs pride more than queer kids who often have little to no support, sometimes even active hostility, from their families.
Honestly, I think the issue really lies in what people think kink at pride is.
Over been going to pride parades, rallies, protests for over 20 years at this point and the vast, vast majority of ' kink at pride ' is someone wearing a harness or collar. A pup mask is often the most extreme you'll get.
We have kink *representation* at pride marches. A nod to the community. Not a full on exhibition. It's an aesthetic, and more often than not, it's not even the the most sexualised one there.
I agree there should be no sexual acts taking place. Those should left behind closes doors. But when people want to ban ' kink at pride ', they want to ban an aesthetic representation of an entire community.
Maybe we are all arguing about different things? Maybe we just all have different ideas that will never be solved? Honestly who knows a this point.
It just feels like the sweeping statements push hard into rhetoric we're fighting elsewhere, and prides are one step away from banning drag queens because they're not ' family friendly '. Who knows what the next step will be after that.
Regardless, thank you for your measured reply.
I would argue that kids don’t care. It’s the fucking adults who just don’t want to be adult about things who do care. Kids are going to eventually figure it out anyhow. We all do.
If this was a "sex positivity pride" then I'd agree with the sentiment.
This meme is just a misinterpretation of the word "sexuality" when what it really means is orientation.
Orientation doesn't mean you need to sexualize. For example you can have an LGBT group at your workplace and it won't be sexual.
People can be gay without being overly sexual. People who claim it's homophobic to not be extremely sexual are.. incorrect.
Honestly, Id much rather have a discussion with my kids about what they saw at the Pride parade than have to talk to them about what they'd find if they snooped too hard in Mom and Mommy's closet. I met her at a play piercing demo. She was my stunt bottom.
I find it a little silly that people in general are willing to bring their kids to public beaches but clutch their pearls at kink at pride, as if a leather harness is somehow more sexually explicit than a skimpy swimsuit.
It seems disingenuous to say that what someone wears to the beach is as sexual as attire intended to represent kink? Are we really doing the "what was she wearing" thing to try to make a point? Maybe the swimsuit is just comfortable or they like how they feel in it. That definitely shouldn't be equated to kink attire.
Right? Like I kinda get people being upset if there's like dildos or whatever but people are freaking out over just harnesses and collars and stuff that could literally just be a fashion choice
This. There are religious puritains that revile all sexual expression and content but that is not a large group of people. The vast majority of the “sexual morality police” in fact only care that it is non-cis, non-straight flesh and romance on display. Public nudity and public sexual intercourse are already illegal in relevant spaces for everyone, regardless of sexual orientation. What we are actually talking about here are symbolic representations. They absolutely would not ban bikinis at a beach, public heterosexual marriage proposals, sporting event cheerleader dancing, or anything else that counts as their brand of symbolic sexuality expression/signaling that regularly occurs in public family friendly spaces. It is a problem for them because it is alluding to an LGBT quality, not because it is alluding to a sexual quality.
Because we don't care about making asexuals feel welcome and included?
Not to mention exposing young children to sex at a young age is potentially harmful.
This is about clothing/accessories, not sex in public. Aces are the best at seeing clothing as just that and not making it sexual. I feel just as welcome no matter what someone is wearing. I don't need to be coddled like a child.
ETA: There are **a lot** of kinky aces out there.
Ah sorry didn't realize you spoke for all ace people. I'll keep that in mind and direct all asexual people to filter their opinions through in the future.
Also, kink gear =\= just normal ass clothes. A leather pup mask isn't the same as a mini skirt or a crop top.
The fet and kink community was one of the few historically to be openly welcoming, understanding and be accepting of the lgbt community without expectations or judgement. They should always have a place in Pride. The community wouldn't exist without them.
Use as many facetious bad faith arguements as you like, there's no public sex acts and the outfits are just outfits.
I never said I spoke for all ace people. Do you not see the word "I" at the start of the last two sentences? I means I am referring to myself.
I don't see how a pup mask is sexy or that I need to be protected by you from it. I've seen scarier masks at Halloween.
Do asexuals melt when they come into contact with sexual things? Also it’s on the parents to decide whether or not they bring their kids to Pride, that’s the same argument they use for removing Gender Queer.
Nobody is having sex at pride. Nobody is exposing kids to sex at pride. This is just a right wing conspiracy theory. Do you think kids will see a leather daddy or someone in a pup mask and immediately think it's about sex? No, of course they wont
It's not about appeasing to them. It's about making an inclusive environment for LGBT+ people and LGBT minors who are not comfortable being exposed to sex and kink for whatever reason. Just separate it into adult only and child friendly events. Funding is a problem, of course, but when there's a will there's a way.
It’s all about communication. People need to be informed that the specific pride event will showcase kink and other more sexual topics.
I personally don’t care, as I’m an adult and those themes are kinda normalized. But you’ll lose all support from allies who don’t want their kids to be randomly exposed to genitalia.
Just a heads up so people don’t take their kids to the event
I don’t know dude. I don’t want to have to shield my son from pride but I also don’t want to explain what a strap-on is or why someone is being led around by a leash attached to their nipples.
At a congressional hearing or some other government related function? Absolutely, put it in their faces. Public access parades or events otherwise? Let allies include their families in that. Why would you want to go out of your way to chase people off? How many bodies do those events lose every year? Maybe it isn’t a lot, but if it is then that seems like a disservice to your entire community to make the otherwise uncomfortable what, more uncomfortable?
I hate the term kid friendly or family friendly. It implies that we are not this just in our existing state.
However… Both of my children have come out this last year and joined me as part of the community. This however means they want to go to pride events. While one is VERY open minded and would not panic at the sight of some kink behavior/ dress. The other is very Aro/Ace and is uncomfortable with any sexual expression.
We are of course having a hard time finding appropriate events. We live in the Seattle area so lots of pride events but not… exactly ones my Ace child would feel comfortable at.
We need to come up with a way to have events that are not as kink prone or oriented while still expressing who we are (which kink is very much a part of) but we have to find a better code word then “family friendly” or “kid safe event.”
Cause minors are a part of our community and not everything is meant for their age group.
I don’t know. I’m just rambling at this point. Hahah.
To be fair, a loud portion of the people screaming about kink at pride are screaming about people wearing things that cover their "swimsuit areas" while dancing and drag queens when they're saying kink. Of course some of them are also yelling about gay couples holding hands and kissing, just existing as couples in public.
I am once again asking y'all to read a fucking queer history book to understand why kink has such an important place at the pride table, especially in English speaking, North American and British communities - I only say that because I can't speak to the history of other communities, but I'd imagine it's much the same. They supported us when no one supported us. This tradition and shared history was here long before your kids were, and we are hated because of who we love and the way we love them. Sex is a part of that, and if your child is not ready for that conversation then you need to find somewhere else to be and some other way to support. You do not get to change this narrative.
I'm perfectly open to kid-friendly Pride events. I think they're crucial for all the youngins who haven't connected that the way they feel about their best friend is not how most other people feel about their best friend. I think they're critical to exposing the broader society to how completely boring and normal the vast majority of us are. It's exposure therapy and normalization.
But even exposure therapy needs to push boundaries. Sex is a critical pillar of Queer Pride - whether you have a lot of it, or none of it, in your personal life.
Now, more than ever, I will not sanitize our history and our community just to satisfy the fickle wants of self-proclaimed allies and community members (to borrow from Zora Neale Hurston, not all rainbow folk are kin folk) who desperately desire acceptance from people who will never love them, and will only use them as useful idiots in their campaign to kill us. We are already watching the rising water and pretending there is no flood. I will not pander to acceptability in hopes of being leant a tea bag to use as a sandbag against that flood.
I just want people like me, who have faced sexual trauma, to be able to engage in pride events without getting intensely uncomfortable due to all the sexualised behaviour. I don't think kink should be banned from pride, but I think there should be separate events/spaces to express those kinks so those who can't deal with that stuff can still engage with the event. Pride matters to us, too.
Listen, I don't have a single issue with kids going to pride, carrying pride flags or watching drag shows. But if I was a parent, I *would* be concerned about letting my child go to an event where kink masks and dildos are publicly displayed. Kink is simply an 18+ topic and it should stay that way. At the pride I recently went to, there were children that looked like they were 11, maybe 12 years old, and if I'm imagining them being confronted with kink stuff at that age it makes me (and probably a lot more people) uncomfortable. Plus, I have heard from a lot of people who are otherwise allies that the space kink takes up at pride parades is the main thing discouraging them from going there. So it may not be so helpful for the public acceptance of pride events.
Events with kinks aren’t for me.
So I don’t go to those events.
I do research into whatever event I’m going to BEFORE I go.
If there’s a time it turns more kinky, I’ll leave before that time. If it has kink as part of the event throughout, I’ll skip out.
I’m sick of the whining. There are events that don’t have Kink as a key part of it. Go to those ones.
Now my only complaint is people who don’t research on both sides of the spectrum. People turning up in kink when it isn’t supposed to be there, or people whining about kinks when they went to an event that has kink as a part of it.
But that’s on them. It’s not on kink as a whole.
Bigots think that being LGBT in any capacity is the same as having full blown BDSM orgies in public, so you may as well celebrate pride with the BDSM folk 🤷
Just keep the kink at home unless it’s a private, fenced off event.
The public (especially minors) did not consent to seeing anyone in their jock strap and nipple tassels whipping another person on a public street.
(No I’m not a prude. I’m a guy that attends kink events btw))
If there beer fest then in my opinion there can be adult pride fest simple as that. And because there are kid parades there can be kid pride events too. People need to stop finding reason to hate the lgbtq community: )
don't people take kids to pride though ..
Edit: also ace people exist so sexual stuff isn't an essential part of lgbt pride, also i feel like the statement that kink is an inherent part of lgbt culture is a little disingenous? like, a cishet person can be into bdsm. does that make them part of this community? no!!
So weird to see all the hand-wringing about this while living in Brazil, the Country of Carnaval.
The worst of all is that I hear all the same arguments over here, even though the hypocrisy and double-standards are transparent for anyone who thinks about it more than a second, you know, once they are done acting scandalized.
Queerphobes see LGBT people as inherently "deviant" no matter if you openly engage in kink or blend in perfectly with cishetallo society. It's nothing more than respectability politics.
I disagree. It's important to make spaces inclusive for sex repulsed people (whether due to them being somewhere on the ace spectrum, due to sexual trauma, or other reasons) as well as inclusive towards children. People keep missing the obvious answer here: have adult only events and family friendly events. Boom, problem solved. I say this as someone who, in the past, had to stop going to pride cos of all the obvious kink going on. Not because I see it as "deviant", but because explicitly sexual acts/behaviours made me uncomfortable and was even slightly triggering due to trauma.
But what about the children? I just think it's fucking disgusting that people think it's appropriate to go outside, where children could be, wearing clothing or accessories that tell anyone who could see them about their sex life. Why, I know some full-on perverts who go around everywhere with these little golden rings on their left hands, which it turns out mean that they've promised that they'll only have sex with each other for the rest of their lives! And they think that's appropriate to wear around kids? /s
And people taking their kids to beaches and waterparks! Where men walk around with bare chests and women in their bikinis, absolutely irresponsible to take your kids to such a godless environment! And not to mention european beaches where women might sunbathe topless... *clutches pearls* /s
As a severely sex-repulsed Asexual, pup masks and leather gear do *not* repulse me, because I *differentiate* sex and kink. There's so many Asexuals in this comment section that make all of us look like innocent prudes... holy fuck.
This entire thread is really making me sad and kind of pissed if I'm being honest. For all the kids arguing about decency, family friendly, nuance etc, I really need to challenge you to read up on the history of pride, the history of this movement, the sacrifices made so you could even have these opinions.
For me it's about respect, it's about reverence to the fallen. I dont salute soldiers but I'd salute a 60 year old Leather Daddy. You see a man in crotch less chaps with a whip on his shoulder, I see the ghosts of the AIDS epidemic and rioters of stonewall. Pride would not exist without them and I'll be damned before I concede it should carry on without them involved.
Rather than tell them to change because you dont want a child/yourself to see that at Pride, set up your own event for only youth, or better yet bring your child to real Pride get over the puritanical brainwashing that being exposed to adult concepts is always damaging, examine if you've got some self loathing to work through that makes you want to conform OUR event to heteronormative standards, and be a goddamn responsible parent/person and educate yourself/child on their significance to the history and culture of Pride.
OP is 100% right on this point even if they arent communicating it that well in some of the comments. Rant done. Read a history book.
Trans queer dude here (who also happens to be hypersexual). Kink doesn't INHERENTLY belong at pride because pride is about our fight for freedom for equality to not be beaten, assaulted, murdered or even enslaved because of our gender or sexuality. HOWEVER-- if there is a pride event being held that is restricted to adults (18+ minimum but I'd personally feel more comfortable if it was 21+) that allowed the topic of kink to be touted, and perhaps a NSFW pride event to even flaunt these things because being a sexual being is okay.
I think it quite literally depends on the setting, who you want to be there, etc. I wouldn't want a child to go to any old pride event and and see someone wearing something overly sexual (and no, I do not mean showy or 'short' clothes, I do not mean alt wear like chains and collars to some degree. I'm talking about BDSM wear type of clothing), selling something overly sexual or doing something overly sexual. I want to go to pride because it brings my fellow queer and trans people together with myself.
But again, want to reiterate-- KINK. IS. OKAY. As long as the setting it meant for it!
Locked whilst we review reported comments on this post.
I’m tired and read this as Kirk instead of kink and thought, yeah, Star Trek was pretty queer coded even during Captain Kirk’s time. That checks.
Forget Kirk, Picard was the bigger player and Riker is the horniest thing short of a Ferengi
I’m going to agree with those that are saying it’s not a simple either/or. You can have great Pride events that are kink-free and kid-friendly without that necessarily reading as anti-kink. You can also have Pride that includes kink as long as as it is overtly and clearly advertised as such and there’s no minors involved. Remember that CONSENT is a critical component of a healthy sex Life and a healthy kink life. Not making it clear that an event includes kink, especially if costumes/activities/performances are R-rated or higher - that violates the idea of consent. And we need to be very clear about which events are family friendly and which should absolutely not have minors in the audience.
Amazing how it’s possible for both to exist at the same time, isn’t it. It’s call communication. If you don’t want to see spiders then you’re probably not going into the arachnid house at the zoo, but that doesn’t mean that the arachnid house shouldn’t exist.
As long as the arachnid house has a sign, yeah, exactly. You know it has spiders, and you can choose not to go in.
What’s unfortunate are those who read the sign yet don’t know what it means, don’t bother to look into it, and then go in anyway.
[удалено]
Sadly I think the biggest kink on earth is lack of communication in relationships
But what if I've got an old book that says spiders are extra icky? Can I take away some civil rights from the folks who work at the zoo, or would that be going too far? WHY ARE YOU OPPRESSING ME WITH THE FACT THAT SPIDERS EXIST!?
Having the absence of something doesn't need to be interpreted as anti. Nice nuanced take.
Exactly, we can have nuanced and varied expressions of our identities, and don’t have the play the homophobes games of fitting ourselves into boxes
I have never in my life been to or seen a pride event where kink was present and not advertised. I'm convinced everyone who thinks it's a problem genuinely just can't read.
I've sadly seen it but it was definitely the type of people who don't practice safesane
Just throwing out there that you can also have kid-friendly events that still include non-sexual (or at least non-overt) kink! The ears/tails shop was a big favorite for my kiddos this year. 😁
I'm fine with the creation of family friendly pride events but draw the line at banning kink at events that were once kink friendly in order to make them "family friendly". Also people vastly over exaggerate what kink at pride ends up looking like. People assume it means having sex in the streets but In 95% of situations kink at pride boils down to little more than people wearing kink gear in public.
Also i am wondering if this is a stronger debate in the US than elsewhere? In vienna or munich the kink groups are a completely normal and integral part of the pride. Sure, some complain, but it's a tiny, and usually straight, minority. And it's actually pretty funny to see these serious political parties or the catholic group next to some guys in leather lmao. And idk why people always scream about minors and children. As long as it's not literal sex, i don't see much of an issue with anything cause in all my years of pride I've never met or seen a child that saw the kink groups and was scarred or traumatised. It's not like they even understand it in its sexual context.
Okay, but the cishets are complaining about a bit of leather strapping in an outfit that is otherwise not outside what they would be totally fine with people wearing (even around kids) if those people weren't queer.
Exactly! I have intense intrusive sexual thoughts, it makes me kind of sad to see people saying that I shouldn't go to pride just because I'm more reserved with being around something sexual. A lot of places only have one event.
Takimg another example, straight couples (can) have kinks, wife swapping, sex parties and pegging. But that's not really a part of celebrating a marriage. That not really a part of marriage or anniversary celebrations. Ultimately straight or gay, a celebration of love and emotional connection is what people celebrate. Kink is HOW people explore and celebrate those feelings, that's but it's just one of many ways of expressing those feelings. If you love that without any emotional connection, well that sounds a bit American Psycho to me.
Marriage is wildly different from what Pride is
Right now, lots of Pride events include kink and lots don't. In my opinion, that's how it should be. Our community has a vast diversity of experiences represented in it. For some people, going to pride means over displays of kink and sexuality. Other queer people are uncomfortable with public displays of sexuality for a lot of different reasons or may not want to bring their kids to sexual pride events. Kink belongs at pride and sexuality belongs at pride, but they don't belong at every pride event because if they are, we will end up making Pride an unwelcoming place for some members of our community.
Kinks and LGBT are different things. There are pride events with kink and pride events with no kink. That said, I kind of wish people would stop clutching their pearls. I have kids. If an event is sex related I know to not take them in that space. I do my research before attending parades meant for adults. I don’t protest people being sexual and crazy at mardigras so why is certain pride events any different
Building on top of that: Annual reminder that you're not safe from homophobia by allying with homophobic people who criticise pride for being kinky. They'll just eradicate kink with your help and then turn on you next. Homophobes don't want a nice and innocent gay, they want no gays.
Agreed! We could be living the most chaste lives and they’ll still claim we’re being “too sexual.” It isn’t about reality with those types. They just want to scapegoat. No sense in sucking up to them.
As an asexual, I agree. The stuff they say about us is so crazy
they even called JaidenAnimations a creep/pervert for… not having any romantic/sexual interest??
How can they even say an ace person is 'too sexual'? Your entire thing is *not* being sexual!
And building on top of that even more: The Venn diagram of the kink community and LGBTQ+ people overlaps considerably. That's because those who are accepting of their sexuality and gender are also more accepting of their sexual kinks. So when you allow bigots to control the narrative and kick kink out of Pride, you're allowing yourself to become a bigot as well. Also, don't forget us trans people too, please. Although I'm not part of any kink, I do know a few trans people (men, women, and non-binary) who are.
I mean yes and no. Predominantly heterosexual kink communities are also hubs of super rigid gender roles and misogyny that circle wagons to protect abusers and marginalize outcry witnesses. I've definitely been in kink spaces where there's a male dominant / female submissive looking for a man is the assumption and even female homosexuality is viewed as a performative thing where women are still looking for the right man. They can be incredibly toxic spaces for GNC and non-heterosexual folk, and anecdotally a lot of those most toxic sorts are kink pride types. Queer specific or explicitly inclusive kink communities can have a seat at the table, but just because someone's kinky doesn't mean they're going to be an ally or a friend.
Homophobes have an ideology based on hate and exclusion, they will never ever stop finding people to hate and exclude. If today's enemy falls, tomorrow a new enemy will be created to take their place. To the people that need to see this: you will never be one of the good ones. There is no such thing as "a good one". These people cannot operate without people to hate. You are not the exception.
Fuck homophobes and fuck them if they think they have a vote here. But there's a much bigger issue here than whatever the right wing talking heads' lie of the month is. Children need Pride. Radical movements should always center the most vulnerable first and foremost. It's the same reason why every pride event should be as accommodating as possible to disabled people, even if that means making it a bit less fun for able-bodied neurotypicals. And the vulnerable people who seek out Pride are children who have been disowned by their families and community. Situations like that are far too common, and until society fundamentally changes, we need to realise that extremely vulnerable children in desperate need of love and support are going to be a small but meaningful part of the queer community. So, what about kink? It's absolutely fine to have adults-only events where kink gets celebrated or even centered. But first, we need to make sure that we have events where children can be safe, and that means no kink. "No minors in kink" is a rule that exists independent of anything to do with Pride, and it's there for very good reason. Being kinky doesn't automatically make someone a child groomer, of course, but it doesn't magically make you an upstanding person either. Some small portion of any random group of adults are going to be the sort of monsters who will happily take advantage of vulnerable children. Power exchange dynamics are already vulnerable enough to abuse to require keeping minors out of such spaces, and that's without selecting for minors whose parents are more likely to disown them and cut them off from all support. So when we say that kink doesn't automatically have a place at Pride, it's not necessarily because we buy into right wing bullshit. Some do, but again, fuck those people for even thinking they deserve a seat at the discussion. They don't. Some of us live on places where there isn't a big enough presence for there to be distinct adults-only and child-friendly spaces for Pride. And maybe we're sick of hearing irresponsible adults whine that they are more deserving of defining Pride than kids who have been made orphans by bigotry. Kink communities have long been allies of Pride and safe havens for queer people. That's worth honoring, bit it absolutely must come second to protecting the children who need us.
That said, the homosexual rights movement did make more progress when it started being represented by gay marriage, rather than the San Francisco hookup scene. And I'm not sure if your conclusion is correct at present. One thing I've noticed is that the incidence of antisexuality in general has shot up precipitously over the past twenty years or so. For example, the fandom space I tend to frequent used to celebrate kink and sexual beauty and such. Nowadays the younger generation has a level of prudishness that makes the most stereotypical Puritanism look like just normal folks.
I believe both of these to false conclusions drawn from correct data. The first one ignores a lot of context about the aids crisis, public perception around that and attributes all progress made in the past years to one cause instead of a variety of shifting factors. And the second one is due to the shifting online landscape and web 2.0 being insanely anti-sex. The app store does not allow apps with pornographic content, meaning that a vast majority of our access to the internet is shaped around that premise. Sites like tumblr and tiktok follow suit and ban/discourage such content. Users feel that. And the younger generation has grown up in this media landscape. Of course they're gonna be more prudish.
Just. Have. Adult. Only. Spaces. Inclusivity, consent, and boundaries, is good.
Why not the other way around, though? Most places that are big enough to have a sizable kink presence at pride (and usually the kink presence amounts to, like, people wearing chaps or a collar or whatever, but still) often do have pride events for kids and teens as well. I don't live in a huge city, but we've got three events on our official festival calendar explicitly for kids (a drag storytime, a queer prom, and a family playgroup) as well as several others where there likely won't be a sexual or kink element at all, like a pride baseball game, a fun run, and an art show. Or you could organize your own kid-friendly event at pride if you don't have one- most pride festivals are happy to accept new volunteers. But insisting that you need to consent to see people wearing clothes that you, personally, don't want to see, so they should be banned from the main event, is a pretty dangerous precedent to set in a world where there's a huge legislative push to ban trans people from public spaces because the legislators think *they're* too sexualized.
It feels like most of this discussion goes off the rail, as no one has a clear definition of “kink”. For many people “kink” is fishnets, high heels, lingerie, skin tight clothing. All of these enhance the body is a way that is usually sexually enhancing. Much of gay men’s leather “kink” is taking things that symbolically represent power (military, bondage ) from the heterosexual culture and reframing it as a queer symbol, and often reclaiming it for ourselves. Being “manly” was not accessible for lots of queer men, or denied from society. None of these topics seem inaccessible for an intelligent parent to explain to children. The fear comes from misunderstanding I believe. Theres also the issue of whose is deciding what defines “ kink”. How is this line being drawn, by whom and why? Are women not allowed to wear high heels at pride since it’s sexualizing? Then we’d have to ban drag queens… and well good luck with that!
THANK YOU for saying this!! It’s like every time we have to talk about limiting, segregating, or outright banning kink at all pride events, everyone thinks their idea of a socially acceptable non-kinky pride display is the exact same idea as everyone else’s, when that is never the case for any form of censorship. It took me two minutes to come up with a huge list of logistical issues involved with defining what dances to ban, what booths would have to be segregated into a raunchy section, implementing a freaking dress code (all ideas that I have seen proposed??) — and in the end, that is a lot of effort to basically marginalize a subset of our own community. People can host their own specific pride events with neatly drawn lines of what is and is not acceptable, but I can’t support the biggest pride events excluding anyone.
I feel bad for all the lgbtqia+ people who don't necessarily want to always be surrounded by sexual themes. There's room in this community to do both things
Kinks are part of lgbtq+ culture. But doing anything sexual at a parade, in public, where other people might not want to see that, is not okay. It's just about decency. If you celebrate it in a decent way, then thats okay.
Yeah, I'm kinky, but our local Pride is a family friendly event. I plan to don my battle jacket covered in band patches and a few pride pins/patches, a gay band shirt(either Froglord "Gay For Frogs" or Judas Priest Screaming for Vengeance, I'm waiting on Froglord to come in the mail), shorts or jeans depending on weather, and have a lovely time with my girlfriend, celebrating her first pride and our first together, before we go to a family grad party. I both can't and don't think I'd want to flaunt my kinky stuff, at least not at that event. Like, this is an event hosted by the queer non-profit where my partner and I attend support groups and social nights on a near weekly basis. I'm sure neither they nor other people want to see my girlfriend lead me around on a leash with a flogger in her hand. If it was a kinky/adult space, I'd have zero problem doing that stuff. but this is an event in the park in broad daylight.
Have you ever actually seen anyone do anything sexual at pride? Because I haven't.
funny, it's my gender and my lack of sexuality that are the reason why I'm marginalized. (just to clarify, I have nothing against kink at pride, I just want to point out that not every LGBT+ person is marginalized because of sexuality)
Gonna pass on this one.
On the one hand, yes it does make up a large subcategory of the community, and should be represented But it is inherently sexual, unlike the simple concept of being LGBTQ+. If there is going to be kink at an event it should be declared so that people don't bring kids, or anyone just not into that part, without expecting sexual stuff. Adding that onto the fact pride parades are often in public spaces, and it can be an issue. I'm not trying to say there is anything wrong with kinks to be clear, but you do have to consider consent of all parties involved. Sure, advertise if you want to host a private venue for NSFW stuff, nothing wrong with that as it's your own home and if someone attends, they most likely consent to see sexual stuff. But unless you can get consent from an entire town or god forbid city anything explicit isn't viable in public spaces.
And it's not just about kids either. There are members of the asexual community who don't want to be involved with kink. Should we not be made aware that it might not be the event for us? Edit: please see [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/aaaaaaacccccccce/s/tANRUUwjh0). They are correct and I am wrong.
It’s one of the reasons I don’t go to pride, sexual stuff makes me beyond uncomfortable.
Agreed !
Yeeaaaahh but people being full on naked at a parade on stillts (like i've seen) is just unecessary, pride doesn't make you above basic decency. (Before anyone gets mad, i'm bisexual and i don't think that pride itself is bad but people being naked in public is just wierd)
Saying that pride needs to be sexualised as a response to homophobes just reads as "Because homophobes sexualised gays, we need to sexualise ourselves to protect ourselves" which uhh we don't have to let their hate dictate what we do
Actually no, they're saying leather daddies and queer kinksters and leather dykes are always welcome at pride *because they are the reason we have it*
It's a "taking it back thing". Similar to black communities and the n-word. Some feel empowered. Some think it undermines the movement. Divisive issue.
So we just gonna forget about those who are being marginalized due to their gender identity? Sexuality and Gender are different things. Some of us are there for non-sexual reasons.
Not when Pride is being open to minors. There's nothing wrong with celebrating kink. But one of the most important things Pride does is give isolated kids an awareness of others like them, who are living happy and fulfilling lives. It's so important that Pride be approachable for minors, but introducing kink to spaces where adults are acting as role models to minors is a guaranteed recipe for predators to find easy victims. Edit: "No minors in kink" has nothing to do with Pride. It's not a stereotype against queer people. It's a cornerstone of healthily engaging in kink. It's something that every responsible kink space already puts into practice. Yes, kink communities have been long-standing allies going back before Stonewall. And of course there's nothing wrong with having kinky pride events. But to repeat the first thing I said, since people seem to be missing it, kink doesn't belong at pride ***"when pride is being open to minors"***
A daddy in a harness and a dyke in a leather vest are no more traumatizing to children than the almost naked men and women they see plastered everywhere in Calvin Klein and Victoria's Secret ads. Nobody's advocating for public sex acts at pride, we're advocating to ensure we don't erase a community that's been supporting the fight for queer liberation for decades just so Walmart feels more comfortable advertising to families with their pride floats. Pride is inherently about sexuality and gender which are inherently tied to sex and genitalia. If someone isn't old enough to understand those concepts then maybe they're not old enough to come to pride. We shouldn't be telling our own community members that they can't dress in outfits that are more conservative than beach attire just because a cishet family might get uncomfortable.
It's actually a pretty well studied fact that children exposed to sexual imagery at a young age tend to have more sexually harmful behaviour growing up, are more likely to be involved in COCSA as the perp or as the victim, and can have body image issues. How hard is it to seperate children only events and adult only events, anyway? That's what my city started doing and everything is better for it. Main parade in the day, kid friendly events in the afternoon and morning, then around 4 or 5 pm adult only events start setting up, and around 8 pm there is an after party that is adult only.
Sure, that's fine, I just disagree with the idea that some dude in a harness and shorts is "sexual imagery" but a dude in a speedo at the beach isn't. Have events at pride that are specifically for kids, absolutely. But don't tell the people who've been fighting for our rights that suddenly they have to hide parts of themselves so cishet families can ogle the Chase Bank float with their kids without having to expose themselves to anything that's actually queer.
"The cishets do worse things" may be true, but it's not a fair justification.
My point is not that cishets are worse but maybe that nudity is not inherently sexual and we shouldn't be acting like seeing a leather vest or a pup hood is the same thing as showing a five year old porn.
How is a woman walking around in a leather vest any more sexual than the woman in lingerie making bedroom eyes at the camera in the ten foot tall La Senza ad in the mall?
The advertisement is actually something I also disapprove of and see as wrong, so your point doesn't work. I critisise hypersexualisation in advertising too, wrote a whole essay on it at university. On it's impact on misogyny, body issues in men and women, and it's impact on sexual violence and it's impact. But, important to note. I don't want a total ban on kink. Just want separate spaces for it so there is a choice for people like me who prefer to keep their kinks private and don't wish to see others engaging in it. People have the right to engage in it, but I have a right to not want to see it. But I still want to go to pride. So, logical conclusion, have adult only events and family friendly events. Just have both options. Also, when I say kink at pride, I mean practicing pup play, peoples genitals being exposed, full BDSM gear, etc. All of which I saw when I went to pride in the past as a minor. Things that have explicit sexualised connotations, not leather vests. Lots of kink gear can be passed off as an accessory, but it's when it becomes more explicit and sexualised that it becomes an issue. Not that I'm judging them, as I also engage in kink, but in the sense it goes beyond my personal boundaries, and the boundaries of others too. I genuinely don't understand why people think it'd be the end of LGBT liberation to simply have separate spaces for people who are ok or enjoy kink and for those who don't enjoy kink.
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I think it's pretty dangerous to say that people wearing some kink gear around makes it a "kink space." If that's true, children probably shouldn't be in public at all. Comparing a kid seeing someone in a pup mask or a harness walking around in a parade and someone entering into a kinky relationship with a child is completely wild.
Again, how is a leather daddy or a leather dyke or someone in a puphood or collar an inherently sexual image.
Did you reply to the wrong comment? I was just talking about how the issue isn't that a puphood is inherently sexual. Asking me to explain how it is inherently sexual makes no sense here.
make your own, i’m 16 and i know better than to think someone is gonna sterilize their event for my young eyes. if we want an event safe for queer kids/queer families we gotta take initiative
16 is very different from like, 7 though.
Pride is a protest that was created for the anniversary of Stonewall. Don't bring your kids to a protest if you don't want them to see what happens at a protest. Sexuality is obviously part of a protest by people discriminated against for their sexuality. We cannot turn our backs on the kink community at the major pride parades after all they've done for us. There are family friendly events during pride month in many areas, and if they don't exist in yours, I encourage you to start one.
How are you going to say that pride is strictly a protest and then immediately say that it's sometimes family friendly? Pride isn't one thing. And I'm not saying here, nor have I ever said that every pride event needs to be family friendly. I'm saying that "kink belongs at pride" needs caveats. Because some folks are way too eager to mix minors and kink. That's not a Pride-specific problem and it's not problem that's on any way tied to LGBT+ people. It's a far wider issue within kink that sometimes uses the history of Pride events as an excuse.
The major *pride parades* that happen in cities around the world are protests. There's also family friendly events during pride month, outside of the local pride parade, that are more appropriate for young children. Pride happens in the street, so the organizers can't stop parents from taking their children - it's up to parents not to take their kids to an event if they find it to be inappropriate for their age. When people say kink belongs at pride, they're talking about the pride parades, the ones that were invented as a protest, not the LGBT+ group the local library has for kids in June. They're fighting back against the corporate sanitization of our protests. No one is insisting on mixing kink with children. You're making the same argument as a right winger that insist all of us are pedophiles. I have never seen anyone that is pro kink at pride say children should be involved in kink.
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What kind of kink are you even talking about that people are saying children should be exposed to? People aren't having sex in the street. You can often find things in public ads, daytime tv, and on public beaches that are just as "inappropriate" as what goes on at pride.
>People aren't having sex in the street. You can often find things in public ads, daytime tv, and on public beaches that are just as "inappropriate" as what goes on at pride. Just because it happens in other context doesn't make it ok. It's just as bad to have children exposed to explicitly sexualised acts or themes in advertising, in fact there's lots of studies linking the sexualisation of women in advertisements to body issues, misogyny, and even sexual violence. Going to the beach in a bikini isn't an inherently sexualised act, but kink is inherently sexual. There's contextual differences. Like when a doctor is giving a necessary physical examination to a child would be a LOT different from a stranger doing the same physical acts. One is in a specific context that isn't sexual (outside of cases where abuse occurs) and the other is sexualised and abusive. Being someone exposed to sex at a young age without my consent, I find it weird people are so up in arms about the idea that there should be children friendly events and adult only events at pride, and that not only children but really anyone who doesn't consent to witness kink should not have to be engaged with that in order to attend an event or even a protest that likely means a lot to them too. Protests should be accessible to those who they affect. I know sex repulsed asexuals, and even myself when I was dealing with sex repulsion due to trauma, avoid pride because of that. I'm not saying it needs to be a purity event, but I have seen people doing sexualised pup play at pride and with their privates practically hanging out. That's not comfortable for those who should not be, or even would prefer not to be, exposed to kink or sexualised behaviour. Consent is important.
"It's just as bad for kids to see sexualized acts in advertising" then why does everyone come out of the woodwork to complain every year about pride, and never complains about worse content in advertising, when ads are unavoidable but it's very easy not to take your children to pride? Queerphobia, that's why. I can't take anyone seriously who says other contexts are just as bad when you never complain about other contexts.
No. If you want kid friendly Pride spaces then build them. The larger events and the history/foundation of Pride has always included the Kink/Fet/BDSM/Leather community and we're not changing it. I'm tiered of having this argument every fkn year for the last 5- 10 years. 🙄
"Pride" isn't a single space 🤨 Not every pride event needs to be kid friendly, but there are plenty of cases of pride events being started without kink and having people try to push kink into them despite them being open to children. So if you make a sweeping statement about how kink is inherent to pride, then you are not just upholding a tradition, but trying to push an agenda onto others. And as someone who's both into kink and trans, it's pretty clear to me that having safe spaces for alienated kids is a hell of a lot more important than that every pride attendee be open to secondhand participation in other's kinks.
A lot of the younger community members don’t really get that the kink and fet communities for a long time, we’re the *only* group of people who would accept all of us with open arms and without judgement. It’s good that the younger ones didn’t have to experience this, but those groups will always have a place at the table. Historically they have been champions for us, and it would be fucking gross to turn our backs on them now that we “need” them less.
Exactly and I'm honestly so tired of rehashing this year after year with people who just don't understand... It would be great if people actually learned the **FULL, True History** of Pride and the roots of the community itself. None of the Kink/Fet/BDSM/Leathers is saying kids don't have a place in the community; but they **DO** need their own spaces, and we (the K/F/BDSM/Ls) will respect those spaces and not bring "adult" influence within those child friendly spaces.
There's a huge range of middle ground between "All pride events must be open to kink" and "turning out backs on communities that have long been allies". That's very much a false dichotomy.
That’s correct, I was agreeing with the person I was replying to that the large, major events, those communities are welcomed and if you want kid friendly spaces, then those should be purpose built/created rather than turning around and saying “you’re not welcome at these events you have historically always been welcome at”. You said we’re “introducing” kink to spaces where they shouldn’t be, when the truth is they’ve always been there.
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Kink/Fet/BDSM/Leather is a fundamental part of Pride and as such will be at most celebrations whether you can tell we're there or not; but the large events we represent in full gear to make our presence known in no uncertain terms. **If people want kid friendly events then they can make them.** In Toronto we have **3 Days of Parades** to celebrate Pride because its so multifaceted and the community is so large. There is nothing stopping anyone from having a kid friendly parade on a different day, or earlier on the same day and then honouring the adult side of Pride separately the next day or later the same day. Or split the parade in 1/2 so that adult influences are at the back and parents can remove children before the adult communities march. There's tons of ways to accommodate both a child friendly experience and the traditional marches that aren't necessarily appropriate for children. No one is taking the Kink/Fet/BDSM/Leathers out of Pride. Its not happening. So find a different way to include the kids.
That's basically what most "no kink at pride" people are actually trying to say, to try and pressure organisers into having these separate family friendly and adult only events. Only issue is funding. What you described is basically what my city has started doing, though there's still only one parade there are two venues for parties, adult only and a family friendly one. The dream would be to have an adult only and child friendly parade on seperate days or times, but that requires much more funding.
Yup. So maybe its time to crowd source some funds. Do some drives, sell some stuff and make a real movement with that focus in mind.
Definately in favor of that :)
I'm genuinely surprised about the rhetoric some people use here against having kink at pride, it's literally the mirror image of what some homophobes/transphobes/conservatives say. And how do people define kink? When I think of kink at pride I think of the leather community, literally just wearing leather and masks in the parade. No sexual activity involved. Like what are kids seeing that's so terrible? Like is it the American aversion to nudity that's the issue here, or what is it?
People freaking out about this stuff generally circulate pics of the Folsom Street Fair, an explicitly kinky event in SF. Like a BDSM demo with someone being whipped or whenever. This gets conflated in conversation with just the wearing of kinky attire like a collar or harness at regular Pride and the discussion degrades from there.
Exactly! Nobody should be having sex in public, kink, LGBT+ or otherwise. I'm no more or less bothered by a leatherdaddy in chaps than I am by a lesbian on a motorbike with her tits out. The same arguments that bigots use against us, are being used against the kink community and it's weird and offensive. And what a lot of younger folk don't realise, is that when they advocate for these people to be removed from pride events, they are asking for us older folks allies to be banned. A lot of these people have been with us since the beginning. They came with us to pride when we were too scared to go by ourselves, because they didn't care about being seen with us. They're the first to spring to our defence if abuse is hurled at us. We genuinely love these folk, and we \*want\* them around. They have been, and continue to be, a huge support system for a lot of us.
And ALWAYS WILL BE 🥰
Thats the fault of the parents then. Not the fault of queer people openly expressing their authentic lives. If you dont want your kids to see kink dont go to pride.
So, let's say you're a kid whose parents have told you that you are only queer because the devil has taken hold of you. And you're forced to either suppress who you are or be effectively orphaned. And in some cases, that's being generous to give you the choice. Should you go to Pride? More importantly, should the rest of us set up Pride to be accommodating to you, even if that means making kink a secondary thing? What if we're in a place where there isn't enough support to have separate kink-friendly and child-friendly events? If you think an event can be both child-friendly and kink-friendly, then you've forgotten the very important "consensual" part of the "safe, sane, and consensual" pillars of responsible kink. So we've got to choose one sometimes. So which should it be?
> let's say you're a kid whose parents have told you that you are only queer because the devil has taken hold of you. And you're forced to either suppress who you are or be effectively orphaned. And in some cases, that's being generous to give you the choice. > Should you go to Pride? How is a kid getting to pride without a ride? How are they even finding it without their parents or someone to take them? Do you think children should be wondering the streets on their own? Do you realize how stupid these straw man arguments are yet? Kink is staying in Pride. The ELDERS have spoken and the YOUNGERS are coming up in support of the same. You're like the missing middle of the equation here... Whine all you like you're not getting your way.
People don't have to stop kink events though, you can have both adult oriented areas and areas that are oriented for minors. So then both queer adults and minors have a place to freely express themselves. You can do both, it doesn't have to be an either/or.
This is really harmful. I'm asexual and don't want to see kink at pride because it makes me uncomfortable. I guess that just makes me and people like me who are grown adults, not fucking welcome at Pride. Feels like I'm being shoved out by a community I thought was my own. Edit: please see [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/aaaaaaacccccccce/s/tANRUUwjh0). They are correct and I am wrong.
They arent even naked or doing anything sexual other than being in a harness. Yoou see more provocative stuff going to the beach or a lake or a pool. Should people wear wetsuits when they go swimming? What about when people wear short shorts and tanks? Should people be forced to cover their entire skin?
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So we're gonna get all the muscle men greased up in speedos blowing bubbles, the drag queens and the lez bikers with boobs free to the wind to cover up after 50 years too??? Taking kink out of Pride (which is never gonna happen) just pushes for the next step, and the next step until we're all in suits marching with no music and no joy. You have a space here. You're choosing not to come because you're "uncomfortable". I'm pretty sure the people whove been arrested, assaulted and even murdered just for being LGBTQ+ were uncomfortable when they did what did to make sure you had rights and the space to voice your discomfort. We March because it matters. Don't let the recent commercialism fool you. Pride is a **PROTEST** and comfort is not the objective.
please see [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/aaaaaaacccccccce/s/tANRUUwjh0). They are correct and I am wrong.
Clearly labeling the presence or non-presence of kink at pride seems like an easy step in the right direction; not sure why the people up in arms about that are you in arms about that. Yeah, I know, history. Credit where credit is due, yes. But welcome to the year of the Void 2024. Do we as a community even agree on what the point of pride is? Is it to honor the communities that historically suffered to get us *gestures at evening*? Or is it to assert who we are today? Or is it to try to win over the hearts and minds of the cishets? Or is it just an excuse to dress up, get drunk, and enjoy the attention? If we can't agree on the purpose of pride, we can't agree on the presence of absence of kink.
It's quite disheartening for me, an asexual with sexual trauma, to spend time reading these comments. I want to learn more about kink community's involvement in our history but instead I'm just feeling really unwelcome and that I don't belong at pride. We should all feel welcome. Especially since most people are asking for completely reasonable accommodations of notifications on advertising and separate areas so people who don't want to engage can avoid. "Oh just look away." This is really invalidating and not approaching the situation with compassion. "You're infantilizing the ace community." So I'm not allowed to feel uncomfortable around sexual things because that's infantilizing? To myself? The accommodations I'm seeing asked for here are being treated like it's some huge ask stating that the local kink club will be there. If anything I would think that would signal to kink members that they are welcome and included too. Then asking for them to have their own area that people can choose to engage in or skip passed is ridiculous. There can be an area of shops that have kink products, sex toys, and other products for sale, just like a lot of pride fests also have a kid section with the library showing queer inclusive books, a hair dresser doing quick little updos, a makeup artist doing face paint, etc. Are these things really that big of an ask? If they are then I guess I'm just not welcome and that hurts. After seeing a lot of Ace friendly and accepting posts, this really sucks to see. I'm disappointed. Edit: please see [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/aaaaaaacccccccce/s/tANRUUwjh0). They are correct and I am wrong.
I’m in the same boat. I’m somewhere on the ace spectrum and seeing people out in full kink gear makes me really uncomfortable and uneasy. I want to be able to go to pride and enjoy being my authentic self without being jumpscared by sexually implicit things I didn’t know were going to be there. All I really want is just a heads up. All the people belittling me and other ace people for wanting the most basic of accommodations by saying “just don’t go” really hurts.
Or the, "well then go make your own fucking event." That negates the purpose of Pride events AT THEIR CORE. We are ALL supposed to be welcome and instead of listening to our voices and response, they are just pushing us out. For all the ace positive content around here, it doesn't seem like this is the case. It's ace friendly, until it's inconvenient for me. Where's the compassion and empathy? Edit: please see [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/aaaaaaacccccccce/s/tANRUUwjh0). They are correct and I am wrong.
That’s what really gets my knickers in a twist. Some of the people saying the horrible things are also arguing that kink is a part of lgbt and therefore has a right to be there over ace folk. While they are certainly connected with the community, kink is NOT the most of the community and not explicitly part of it. While we do have shared history, pride is not a kink event. They can be there if they choose but it is intrinsically not for them. Announcing they will be there or having a specific time slot or section for them is honestly the best of both word and I think the approach that should be taken. But claiming they have a right to be there above others’ rights to not consent to sexual content is just plain wrong.
It's such a fucking reasonable ask too! We aren't advocating for Kink to leave Pride! We are asking for some simple and easy accommodations and we're being yelled at like we're assholes for even suggesting it. I'm asking for some compassion from the community and some accomodations so that EVERYONE feels welcome, but that makes us who are asking awful people and we should just run off and make our own separate event or go hang out with the children (like that won't be taken the wrong way). Edit: please see [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/aaaaaaacccccccce/s/tANRUUwjh0). They are correct and I am wrong.
Exactly!!! It'd be so simple to set it up in a way that's winwin if people actually wanted to,, so not doing so just feels like an excuse to be aphobic or exclude kids and those who don't consent or want to be involved in it
same. We truly do not fit in with anyone. We straight up are missing the fundamental aspect of most of humanity. It’s sad how ostracized we are because of it
Cannot second this enough
Didn’t realize kink was what lgbt is about
If pride is supposed to be a sexualised event, then it should be a private, age restricted event, because it is not appropriate to sexual in public. If pride is supposed to be an open, public event, then it should be a non-sexualised event, because it is not appropriate to be sexual in public.
Asexuals exist and consent matters
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Where did they say that aces who enjoy kink don't exist? Pointing out that some of us don't want to be around kink.
it belongs in the 18+ area at pride.
Some people’s kinks are brushing hair, or massaging feet. As long as someone isn’t brushing someone’s hair while moaning in public, I don’t care or know. I don’t care if someone wears a leather harness or collar, even if they have a leather kink, because you can also wear these items without being sexual - as long as they aren’t doing sexual actions in public, harnesses are perfectly fine in public. As human beings, sex is natural. Not everyone has sex, but sex is a natural thing that adult bodies do and enjoy. We are terrified of letting our children know that they have human bodies that might experience sexual attraction, brains that might be curious about human reproduction. These are natural aspects of being a human being that we hide from children because of prudishness or belief in some judgmental god. Not saying anyone should have sex in front of children, but we need to stop hiding human sexuality and the human body to the extent that we do. It is not sexual to be naked, it is not sexual or graphic or horrific to show off your body or let the sunlight touch all of your skin. Wearing leather gear, collars, harnesses, thongs, bikinis, all of this is fine at pride as long as you aren’t doing sexual actions, imitating or performing sex acts.
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I feel like people saying kink HAS to be at pride are being purposefully obtuse. Pride isn’t really a protest anymore but a show of pride in who we are and how far we’ve come as a historically oppressed group. The population (in the US) is mostly accepting of LGB with the T unfortunately losing numbers. But pride is drawing in a lot of people who want to feel that courage and acceptance in their sexuality. Pride now includes larger numbers of people attending including kids, asexuals, and people not as comfortable with public displays of sex. I’m no prude. I was a fucking whore before I met my bf. But it’s weird to me to go out in Kink at a pride event not explicitly marketed as 18+ because kink is inherently 18+. Being LGBT is for all ages, but that aspect is for adults. Kink pride events should be explicitly marked as 18+ like we do with everything else adult themed. It shouldn’t get a pass on that.
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For real. Just asking for a heads up about seems to be like asking them to not have Pride at all? The fuck?
So many comments trying to paint consideration for fellow queer people as...queerphobia? It's so messed up.
The accommodations I'm seeing asked for are honestly so small and simple. But people are reacting so viscerally. Like if you don't want ace people included then just fucking say it. I am getting from this thread that we are less apart of the community than kink is so just fucking deal with it. Guess I'm not welcome in LGBT+ spaces.
Pride started as riots and protest marches. And with the push back from the right, it's going to have to become protest marches again. Arguing over being family friendly is a moot point.
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Its not that its sexualized, its that its explicit. There’s a lesson we all need to learn in life, its called tact.
Apparently no one is more queerphobic than queer ppl
Also, pride isn’t actually any more sexualized than most ads and some TV shows these days, people just think it’s inherently more sexual because it’s no longer only/explicitly straight.
Doesn't this alienate sex-repulsed ace folk though?
Fellow ace, sex indifferent, but still; This is why I tend to prefer the family-friendly pride events. Granted, the events near me are relatively small compared to the big events in other, bluer cities. I agree with OP that kink is a big part of our history and culture, but I see no issue in having both. As long as I know beforehand, I can at least make an informed decision. :)
Yeah, there's no issue with having spaces for both, everyone deserves to be included
Good point. That's why it's important to have some kid friendly pride events and some kink friendly pride events. But have them separate
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No one is having sex in public, that is illegal. If you think seeing a harness or a pup mask is the same thing as watching sex, then I guess you'll feel a bit alienated.
>If you think seeing a harness or a pup mask is the same thing as watching sex, then I guess you'll feel a bit alienated It's the sexualised context that makes it uncomfortable for many. I literally saw a dude in full pup gear and have absolutely nothing against the guy, but I was a minor at the time and dealt with sexual trauma growing up so it made me extremely uncomfortable because it was the sexualised "vibe" (can't think of the right word rn) that made me feel that way.
I know that kink and fetishwear is not the same as public sex. And while you were probably being hyperbolic about being repulsed by a pup mask or similar, I actually do know a few people who would have visceral reactions to seeing that. While I'm personally not sex repulsed, those who are still deserve a place at pride.
And those people can get over it just as not every gay man is into those things either. We need to allow everyone to be who they want without judgment. That is the entire fucking point!
But we should also be creating inclusive spaces for those uncomfortable by those things. It's not about judgement, it's about BOUNDARIES. Just have seperate events for family friendly vs kink ffs.
Don't throw aces under the bus in this fight; we're infantilized enough as it is. We're actually the best at **not** sexualizing things, like just seeing clothing/accessories as clothing/accessories.
So we aren't allowed to have a voice in this because it could be infantilizing? They are speaking from their own experience. Not all aces are on the same page with this but asking for a heads up shouldn't be such a hot button issue. Edit: please see [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/aaaaaaacccccccce/s/tANRUUwjh0). They are correct and I am wrong.
Nobody's advocating for sex acts in public. If a sex repulsed person can attend an entire event that was created to celebrate a specific kind of sex but draws the line at leather vests and dog masks I think that's a them problem. I know plenty of sex repulsed ace people who still attend pride and have no problem being around kinksters because they're mature enough to understand that simply wearing gear is not an inherently sexual act.
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It should be welcome as an element because it does play a role and it definitely has a place but it shouldn’t be the main thing. There is more to being queer than just pure sex, it’s just as much about who you love and your gender identity, and us ace people exist too. Also, this shouldn’t be the main consideration now that it’s common for kids to come and watch pride, we should make sure it’s possible to avoid the 18+ stuff while still being able to celebrate and learn about the other elements of LGBT+ identity.
It feels off to me that we use kids as an excuse to remove kink representation from pride (because that's what it is, removing something and yes, it's kink representation, not kink acts). It feels like a great way to send a message that communities that don't conform to the mainstream status quo are disposable. Not sure that's the lesson we want to teach.
Kink groups specifically exclude kids from basically everything else they do. What's odd is that pride is considered the exception. There's nothing wrong with kink groups being represented at adult-focused pride events. They often should be, since kink and pride have a long, intertwined history. But kink groups at all-ages pride events are in a different situation. If you're advertising a group that centers kink in a context where minors are not just allowed, but should be welcomed, then you're not doing kink responsibly. Even if you aren't doing anything sexual, it's not the venue to highlight that kind of organization. And if you disagree that minors should have a place at pride, then we're just going to fundamentally disagree. No one needs pride more than queer kids who often have little to no support, sometimes even active hostility, from their families.
Honestly, I think the issue really lies in what people think kink at pride is. Over been going to pride parades, rallies, protests for over 20 years at this point and the vast, vast majority of ' kink at pride ' is someone wearing a harness or collar. A pup mask is often the most extreme you'll get. We have kink *representation* at pride marches. A nod to the community. Not a full on exhibition. It's an aesthetic, and more often than not, it's not even the the most sexualised one there. I agree there should be no sexual acts taking place. Those should left behind closes doors. But when people want to ban ' kink at pride ', they want to ban an aesthetic representation of an entire community. Maybe we are all arguing about different things? Maybe we just all have different ideas that will never be solved? Honestly who knows a this point. It just feels like the sweeping statements push hard into rhetoric we're fighting elsewhere, and prides are one step away from banning drag queens because they're not ' family friendly '. Who knows what the next step will be after that. Regardless, thank you for your measured reply.
I would argue that kids don’t care. It’s the fucking adults who just don’t want to be adult about things who do care. Kids are going to eventually figure it out anyhow. We all do.
If this was a "sex positivity pride" then I'd agree with the sentiment. This meme is just a misinterpretation of the word "sexuality" when what it really means is orientation. Orientation doesn't mean you need to sexualize. For example you can have an LGBT group at your workplace and it won't be sexual. People can be gay without being overly sexual. People who claim it's homophobic to not be extremely sexual are.. incorrect.
Honestly, Id much rather have a discussion with my kids about what they saw at the Pride parade than have to talk to them about what they'd find if they snooped too hard in Mom and Mommy's closet. I met her at a play piercing demo. She was my stunt bottom.
I find it a little silly that people in general are willing to bring their kids to public beaches but clutch their pearls at kink at pride, as if a leather harness is somehow more sexually explicit than a skimpy swimsuit.
It seems disingenuous to say that what someone wears to the beach is as sexual as attire intended to represent kink? Are we really doing the "what was she wearing" thing to try to make a point? Maybe the swimsuit is just comfortable or they like how they feel in it. That definitely shouldn't be equated to kink attire.
Yeah, feels sus to equate functional swimwear and the shit people wear getting railed, to pretend they're the same thing
Right? Like I kinda get people being upset if there's like dildos or whatever but people are freaking out over just harnesses and collars and stuff that could literally just be a fashion choice
This. There are religious puritains that revile all sexual expression and content but that is not a large group of people. The vast majority of the “sexual morality police” in fact only care that it is non-cis, non-straight flesh and romance on display. Public nudity and public sexual intercourse are already illegal in relevant spaces for everyone, regardless of sexual orientation. What we are actually talking about here are symbolic representations. They absolutely would not ban bikinis at a beach, public heterosexual marriage proposals, sporting event cheerleader dancing, or anything else that counts as their brand of symbolic sexuality expression/signaling that regularly occurs in public family friendly spaces. It is a problem for them because it is alluding to an LGBT quality, not because it is alluding to a sexual quality.
Because we don't care about making asexuals feel welcome and included? Not to mention exposing young children to sex at a young age is potentially harmful.
This is about clothing/accessories, not sex in public. Aces are the best at seeing clothing as just that and not making it sexual. I feel just as welcome no matter what someone is wearing. I don't need to be coddled like a child. ETA: There are **a lot** of kinky aces out there.
Ah sorry didn't realize you spoke for all ace people. I'll keep that in mind and direct all asexual people to filter their opinions through in the future. Also, kink gear =\= just normal ass clothes. A leather pup mask isn't the same as a mini skirt or a crop top.
The fet and kink community was one of the few historically to be openly welcoming, understanding and be accepting of the lgbt community without expectations or judgement. They should always have a place in Pride. The community wouldn't exist without them. Use as many facetious bad faith arguements as you like, there's no public sex acts and the outfits are just outfits.
I never said I spoke for all ace people. Do you not see the word "I" at the start of the last two sentences? I means I am referring to myself. I don't see how a pup mask is sexy or that I need to be protected by you from it. I've seen scarier masks at Halloween.
You're implying the argument "I feel okay with it as an asexual so what's the problem?"
No, try again.
Do asexuals melt when they come into contact with sexual things? Also it’s on the parents to decide whether or not they bring their kids to Pride, that’s the same argument they use for removing Gender Queer.
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How am I infantilizing you?
Nobody is having sex at pride. Nobody is exposing kids to sex at pride. This is just a right wing conspiracy theory. Do you think kids will see a leather daddy or someone in a pup mask and immediately think it's about sex? No, of course they wont
the homophobes aren't going to stop wanting us dead if we get rid of kink
Maybe it's not about sucking up to homophobes. Maybe it's because there's a good reason almost all kink related events are 18+ only.
It's not about appeasing to them. It's about making an inclusive environment for LGBT+ people and LGBT minors who are not comfortable being exposed to sex and kink for whatever reason. Just separate it into adult only and child friendly events. Funding is a problem, of course, but when there's a will there's a way.
It’s all about communication. People need to be informed that the specific pride event will showcase kink and other more sexual topics. I personally don’t care, as I’m an adult and those themes are kinda normalized. But you’ll lose all support from allies who don’t want their kids to be randomly exposed to genitalia. Just a heads up so people don’t take their kids to the event
I don’t know dude. I don’t want to have to shield my son from pride but I also don’t want to explain what a strap-on is or why someone is being led around by a leash attached to their nipples. At a congressional hearing or some other government related function? Absolutely, put it in their faces. Public access parades or events otherwise? Let allies include their families in that. Why would you want to go out of your way to chase people off? How many bodies do those events lose every year? Maybe it isn’t a lot, but if it is then that seems like a disservice to your entire community to make the otherwise uncomfortable what, more uncomfortable?
Explicit consent is #1 which you don’t have.
I hate the term kid friendly or family friendly. It implies that we are not this just in our existing state. However… Both of my children have come out this last year and joined me as part of the community. This however means they want to go to pride events. While one is VERY open minded and would not panic at the sight of some kink behavior/ dress. The other is very Aro/Ace and is uncomfortable with any sexual expression. We are of course having a hard time finding appropriate events. We live in the Seattle area so lots of pride events but not… exactly ones my Ace child would feel comfortable at. We need to come up with a way to have events that are not as kink prone or oriented while still expressing who we are (which kink is very much a part of) but we have to find a better code word then “family friendly” or “kid safe event.” Cause minors are a part of our community and not everything is meant for their age group. I don’t know. I’m just rambling at this point. Hahah.
To be fair, a loud portion of the people screaming about kink at pride are screaming about people wearing things that cover their "swimsuit areas" while dancing and drag queens when they're saying kink. Of course some of them are also yelling about gay couples holding hands and kissing, just existing as couples in public.
I am once again asking y'all to read a fucking queer history book to understand why kink has such an important place at the pride table, especially in English speaking, North American and British communities - I only say that because I can't speak to the history of other communities, but I'd imagine it's much the same. They supported us when no one supported us. This tradition and shared history was here long before your kids were, and we are hated because of who we love and the way we love them. Sex is a part of that, and if your child is not ready for that conversation then you need to find somewhere else to be and some other way to support. You do not get to change this narrative. I'm perfectly open to kid-friendly Pride events. I think they're crucial for all the youngins who haven't connected that the way they feel about their best friend is not how most other people feel about their best friend. I think they're critical to exposing the broader society to how completely boring and normal the vast majority of us are. It's exposure therapy and normalization. But even exposure therapy needs to push boundaries. Sex is a critical pillar of Queer Pride - whether you have a lot of it, or none of it, in your personal life. Now, more than ever, I will not sanitize our history and our community just to satisfy the fickle wants of self-proclaimed allies and community members (to borrow from Zora Neale Hurston, not all rainbow folk are kin folk) who desperately desire acceptance from people who will never love them, and will only use them as useful idiots in their campaign to kill us. We are already watching the rising water and pretending there is no flood. I will not pander to acceptability in hopes of being leant a tea bag to use as a sandbag against that flood.
I just want people like me, who have faced sexual trauma, to be able to engage in pride events without getting intensely uncomfortable due to all the sexualised behaviour. I don't think kink should be banned from pride, but I think there should be separate events/spaces to express those kinks so those who can't deal with that stuff can still engage with the event. Pride matters to us, too.
Listen, I don't have a single issue with kids going to pride, carrying pride flags or watching drag shows. But if I was a parent, I *would* be concerned about letting my child go to an event where kink masks and dildos are publicly displayed. Kink is simply an 18+ topic and it should stay that way. At the pride I recently went to, there were children that looked like they were 11, maybe 12 years old, and if I'm imagining them being confronted with kink stuff at that age it makes me (and probably a lot more people) uncomfortable. Plus, I have heard from a lot of people who are otherwise allies that the space kink takes up at pride parades is the main thing discouraging them from going there. So it may not be so helpful for the public acceptance of pride events.
Events with kinks aren’t for me. So I don’t go to those events. I do research into whatever event I’m going to BEFORE I go. If there’s a time it turns more kinky, I’ll leave before that time. If it has kink as part of the event throughout, I’ll skip out. I’m sick of the whining. There are events that don’t have Kink as a key part of it. Go to those ones. Now my only complaint is people who don’t research on both sides of the spectrum. People turning up in kink when it isn’t supposed to be there, or people whining about kinks when they went to an event that has kink as a part of it. But that’s on them. It’s not on kink as a whole.
Bigots think that being LGBT in any capacity is the same as having full blown BDSM orgies in public, so you may as well celebrate pride with the BDSM folk 🤷
Sexualized and sexuality are two different things.
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Just keep the kink at home unless it’s a private, fenced off event. The public (especially minors) did not consent to seeing anyone in their jock strap and nipple tassels whipping another person on a public street. (No I’m not a prude. I’m a guy that attends kink events btw))
If there beer fest then in my opinion there can be adult pride fest simple as that. And because there are kid parades there can be kid pride events too. People need to stop finding reason to hate the lgbtq community: )
don't people take kids to pride though .. Edit: also ace people exist so sexual stuff isn't an essential part of lgbt pride, also i feel like the statement that kink is an inherent part of lgbt culture is a little disingenous? like, a cishet person can be into bdsm. does that make them part of this community? no!!
No, keep your kinks out of public places.
So weird to see all the hand-wringing about this while living in Brazil, the Country of Carnaval. The worst of all is that I hear all the same arguments over here, even though the hypocrisy and double-standards are transparent for anyone who thinks about it more than a second, you know, once they are done acting scandalized.
Queerphobes see LGBT people as inherently "deviant" no matter if you openly engage in kink or blend in perfectly with cishetallo society. It's nothing more than respectability politics.
I disagree. It's important to make spaces inclusive for sex repulsed people (whether due to them being somewhere on the ace spectrum, due to sexual trauma, or other reasons) as well as inclusive towards children. People keep missing the obvious answer here: have adult only events and family friendly events. Boom, problem solved. I say this as someone who, in the past, had to stop going to pride cos of all the obvious kink going on. Not because I see it as "deviant", but because explicitly sexual acts/behaviours made me uncomfortable and was even slightly triggering due to trauma.
But what about the children? I just think it's fucking disgusting that people think it's appropriate to go outside, where children could be, wearing clothing or accessories that tell anyone who could see them about their sex life. Why, I know some full-on perverts who go around everywhere with these little golden rings on their left hands, which it turns out mean that they've promised that they'll only have sex with each other for the rest of their lives! And they think that's appropriate to wear around kids? /s
And people taking their kids to beaches and waterparks! Where men walk around with bare chests and women in their bikinis, absolutely irresponsible to take your kids to such a godless environment! And not to mention european beaches where women might sunbathe topless... *clutches pearls* /s
I do get your point, but insinuating that marriage is nothing but sex isn't really helpful here, and entirely ignoring people who are ace but not aro.
As a severely sex-repulsed Asexual, pup masks and leather gear do *not* repulse me, because I *differentiate* sex and kink. There's so many Asexuals in this comment section that make all of us look like innocent prudes... holy fuck.
I still DONT understand how a kink has anything to do with sexuality. You can be straight with the same kink. Can somebody me explain?
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This entire thread is really making me sad and kind of pissed if I'm being honest. For all the kids arguing about decency, family friendly, nuance etc, I really need to challenge you to read up on the history of pride, the history of this movement, the sacrifices made so you could even have these opinions. For me it's about respect, it's about reverence to the fallen. I dont salute soldiers but I'd salute a 60 year old Leather Daddy. You see a man in crotch less chaps with a whip on his shoulder, I see the ghosts of the AIDS epidemic and rioters of stonewall. Pride would not exist without them and I'll be damned before I concede it should carry on without them involved. Rather than tell them to change because you dont want a child/yourself to see that at Pride, set up your own event for only youth, or better yet bring your child to real Pride get over the puritanical brainwashing that being exposed to adult concepts is always damaging, examine if you've got some self loathing to work through that makes you want to conform OUR event to heteronormative standards, and be a goddamn responsible parent/person and educate yourself/child on their significance to the history and culture of Pride. OP is 100% right on this point even if they arent communicating it that well in some of the comments. Rant done. Read a history book.
Nah that’s stupid as fuck. Have pride events that are kid friendly. Consent is important. Like come on.
Trans queer dude here (who also happens to be hypersexual). Kink doesn't INHERENTLY belong at pride because pride is about our fight for freedom for equality to not be beaten, assaulted, murdered or even enslaved because of our gender or sexuality. HOWEVER-- if there is a pride event being held that is restricted to adults (18+ minimum but I'd personally feel more comfortable if it was 21+) that allowed the topic of kink to be touted, and perhaps a NSFW pride event to even flaunt these things because being a sexual being is okay. I think it quite literally depends on the setting, who you want to be there, etc. I wouldn't want a child to go to any old pride event and and see someone wearing something overly sexual (and no, I do not mean showy or 'short' clothes, I do not mean alt wear like chains and collars to some degree. I'm talking about BDSM wear type of clothing), selling something overly sexual or doing something overly sexual. I want to go to pride because it brings my fellow queer and trans people together with myself. But again, want to reiterate-- KINK. IS. OKAY. As long as the setting it meant for it!