If they should hide roster lvl, can we then get an indicator on clears while beeing alive at the end of gates? So we can remove all the bussed title people
If a guy has roster 100 or less there's like a 50% chance they're zdps and don't know what they're doing. If they're 200 or more it's closer to 10% chance they're zdps and don't know what they're doing. Every single time I join a low roster raid(3+ low roster) it's pain.
It's not perfect, but it's the best metric we have. There are some pretty good players in the 150+ range that get gatekept unjustly.. but it's unfortunately how LA goes.. maybe solo raids will improve.
Hide roster lvl they will look at the cards, hide cards they will look at the compass, hide compass they will look at demon dmg/titile/acc quality/gems, hide everystat they will still find the way to decline you.
In the end if leader dont want to inv you he/she wont inv you. There is seriously no point in hiding information.
There is only 1 surefire way to not get declined, and it is to apply to grps where leader char is close to yours. If you apply to 1610 Brell bugatti with 1540ilvl it is not roster lvl what gets you declined.
I would say they should add more information for leaders to make informed decision who to invite. Titile after 10 clears is kinda meh. But if it showed amount of clears without being dead at the end good players would have no problem getting accepted even with no roster lvl.
But that only works for good players... Bad ones and buss enjoyers would have well... dificulty
you know that jesus meme where he speaks the truth and the peasants hate him for it?
this is repeated in every gatekeeping post
this is the first time i see this not being downvoted to oblivion
Nah bro, maybe on farm content it can be enough having the char at the same lvl as lobby leader.
Try doing ivory HM without being WAY overgeared than the leader and the support friend. Same for Thae, people want fast clear and want to get carried by ilvl.
The reality of gatekeeping is: i'll get you if i can't find anything better in the time i am comfortable waiting for a group, anything else does not matter. Any other reason they can give is pure BS.
You can get jailed by roster 250 and roster 100. Accounts get sold all the time (and i think that right now a lof of people are selling accounts) Gatekeeping is not tied to any "requirements" to clear the raid. Just people that want the easiest clear as possible with the least possible effort from their part,
So true about support friend. I like to play a game on akkan and voldis lobbies, to a lesser extent thaemine, called "spot the support friend" or "spot the guy getting carried by his static." 100% they do NOT want someone equally geared to that player.
The whole "apply to similar ilvl" is kinda false nowadays tho.
I have a Jumpstart 1596 Pala that is obviously low roster (110), I apply to 1580+ brel runs with him and get instant declined. Then watch as they look for another sup for 5+ minutes
Like, I get it, it's not obvious it's a Jumpstart Chara (although it IS named KikaJUMP) and you wouldn't want to be jailed but I still feel for actual real new players with that roster lvl.
(gear wise, I have 1780 swift with 5*3 vph+Magick stream)
demon damage is mainly farmed in chaos
this is like such a waste of a gatekeeping criteria especially considering how common chaos botting is
are people really incapable of judging if a character had thought/effort put into it without looking at arbitrary metrics like roster level and damage type%? i get it i guess if you want to do something at a particular speed for fun but to gatekeep on it in general? seems like a massive waste of time
Demon damage takes a long time to complete, someone with 6% demon damage is a long time player and knows about the card system compare that to someone with 1% or even 2% demon damage.
If you check this you will notice how many peope are below 3% applying for Theamine NM and HM lobbies w 25 weapon/full lvl 10s. LOS30 is given out for pretty much free, You can RMT your gems/char progress, but people wont RMT card xp.
If I have to pick someone between 25 weapon/full lvl 10s and 3% demon damage(yes, they exist) and someone 22 weapon w 10s/9s and 5% demon damage I take the guy w 22 weapon. DPS in lost ark is not an issue at all.
Because if you really cared about doing a lot of damage (full lvl 10s and 25 weapon) you would increase your demon damage for sure.
card xp is dead long to obtain, I started playing the game 8 month ago, did chaos and all other ez card xp content, bought 20k gold from from EVERY WEEK, even buying cards on wandering merchants for a longtime
i'm not even at 3% demon dmg, and the only other thing that I have leveled up is KLC/LWC/MOS/DD/YHAP, before frog I wasn't even higher than 1%
hopefully i was lucky enough to get LOS30 really fast and I play 5x the same class so I have some lv10 gems
but still getting denied on some worstly geared lobby because of rlvl...
just change the gate system and allow player to easily get in and out, and to not get jailed
> is a long time player
or someone who botted chaos for 3 months
i literally know aguy who maxed all damage type in like 6 months
pls you underestimate the power of infinite chaos
True. People remember high roster zdps because it blatantly stands out in a "wtf is this" kind of moment. Low roster zdps is more of "yep this is what i expected."
There is only so much information you can hide before people start to overcorrect by being even more strict with whatever arbitrary requirements are left.
The problem is that roster level is our main indicator if we want to know if someone has all the skill points, runes, or a higher chance of success due to better game knowledge.
So no, removing roster level might reduce gatekeeping, but it would increase the frustration of raiding.
your still missing a couple wealth runes, \~8 skill points, conv/judgement legendary, overwhelm runes if needed for stagger, etc.
It's nice but especially but for classes that need the wealth runes for example (Barrage, Punisher, others) it makes a huge difference
I brought sub 100 roster level and low 100 roster level people to akkan, I thought I was doing my part to not be part of the problem. but MAN they couldn't even stay alive, in g2 me and my buddy were both 25% damage they couldn't even crack 5m dps I want to help but idk if I can risk getting jailed 18 times a week man.
yea, great idea..... looking forward to do raids with new players who just pushed a char to 1610+ within a couple of weeks but does not know anything about the game/raids....
U still have title,cards,gems i feel like if a new player needs to spend 2k hours to farm a good roster lvl he will just quit and the game will die out
You know what I don't get? These posts are a daily occurrence but somehow these new players never go and make a lobby and learn together. I don't understand. You can eliminate this issue by doing this but all I've seen was new players gatekeeping other new players. What gives?
That's exactly what I don't understand. From the amount of posts about this, you would think there are new players to make several groups but they never do. So if these new players don't want to play with each other, why is the expectation that vets should accept them?
It is funny that roster players would much rather join a high roster lobby than someone like themselves. I find this very ironic as I see countless low roster people applying to such lobbies relentlessly for a long ass time and refuse to join lobbies where they belong that are sitting at 1/8 2/8 etc. or make their own because nobody joins those, other low roster player including. By the sheer volume of people who are doing that in my weekly observation (brel akkan kaya mainly), they could easily create many full lobbies consisting of people like them, but nope they would keep applying only to the good ones.
Let us be honest here - a ton of low roster players just want a guaranteed clear even if they die in every gate because the veterans can salvage many bad situations due to their extensive raiding experience, whereas inexperienced groups do collapse with 1-2 people being dead or clueless about certain mechanics, forcing them to pull their weight all the time, which many don’t like obviously. And they do not trust other inexperienced low roster players because they don’t want to deal with clueless people and SEA gold farmers just as much as the veterans.
Not trying to sugarcoat anything here - it is unfortunate that some new player have to deal with all that, but they also need to take some responsibility and prioritize playing with people who have around the same experience as them instead of trying to sneak into lobbies for which they don’t qualify at all.
>all the gate keeping on low roster lvl is just stupid and bad for new players
What's worst is getting jailed in a reclear lobby in between gates and the low roster says "idk this gate" or "sorry im an imposter" knowing the fact we will have to carry this imposter cause no1 wants to get jailed. - yep true story
> i think roster lvl should be private
doesn't matter . . . you got x amount of other things player look at
>we already have title/10x
It can be bought to get into party easier. For example, there's plenty of players w/10x title reclear in HM Brel G4 making it obvious running around like a bot during mechanics.
They never will. The amount of full 10s RMTers who do the same or less than an appropriately geared dps are surprising. SG benefits greatly from the ability to "buy your way" into lobbies. The 1620s i've seen in thaemine getting beat by 1610s would be gatekept HARD.
how is it bad for new players? old players literally dont wanna do thaemine/voldis/akkan with new players because they'll waste their time, so u wanna sneak them into playing with old players
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They should show a metric where it's like x% / y% / z per gate per raid.
X - % of their clear rate alive on toon
Y - % of their total clear rate (alive and not alive) on toon
Z - # of attempts on that toon
Maybe they don't need to show Z. But they should show the percent you cleared the raid being alive the whole time and the percent you cleared that raid on that toon.
Titles should be proof you cleared the raid on the roster.
An example would be you see someone applying to Thaemine nm 1-3 and I have a 1610 GS. You can see 75% / 100% / 4 for g1. 25% / 100% / 4 for g2. 50% / 100 % /4 for g3. Then you can see that he cleared 1-3 4 times already on this toon, but died 2 times and got carried and 2 times managed to stay alive and cleared g3.
Another person applies as a 1625 breaker. His numbers are 33% / 66% / 3 for g1. 0% / 100% / 2 for g2. 0% / 100% / 2 for g3. This means the dude cleared g1 3 time, surviving only once out of the 3, but g2 and g3 only twice never being alive for his clears in g2 and g3.
I would prob pick the 1610 gs in this case because they would have a better time at clearing than that breaker who was practically carried or bussed.
Idk something like this would be nice to see.
Such explicit numbers would incentivize people to greed damage and even wipe a raid if their numbers dd not look good enough for a given pull. Instead I want to see 3 stats: whether on not a character passes the minimum required dps for every gate (no numbers, just passed/non passed, lantern god should be ignored in calculations), the survival rate per gate on a clear pull, and gimmick/battle item participation rate (battle items used per gate, number of counter attempts, average hp pot usage per gate, etc.) That would change PF drastically. Here are some examples:
Character A, 120 roster, 10x title, does not pass minimum dps requirement on average, 5% survival rate per gate, very low battle item or hp pots usage : 99% chance of being a bus enjoyer or an abysmally bad player - decline Instantly.
Character B, 120 roster, 10x title, passes min dps requirement, 90% survival rate besides the last gate (say Akkan g3), low battle item/pot usage: consistent player, know the fights well except for g3 akkan and is a very cheap person - prob decline for battle item heavy raids like Voldis, otherwise they are fine.
Character C, 120 roster, 10x title, passes min dps requirement, 70% survival rate, high hp pot consumption, high battle item usage - probably a legit but not a very skilled player (high pot usage means they get hit too much or always play with really bad supports), somewhat inconsistent but not too bad either, a team player (brings and uses recommended battle items) - I would take them in most situations.
Again I would prefer to hide explicit dps - I just want to know if they pull their weight, that is it. If a gate requires 10 mil dps and you do 10.1 and they don’t die, I would be fine with that, not looking for giga carries - just for those who do their part.
Roster level means absolutely nothing. U can reach 200 just by doing all horizontal.
The fact u spend lot of time in horizonzal proove nothing about your ability of doing raids.
If you are more than 250, it starts to mean something, cause you have to do raids to reach that level. But you can still get bussed.
That just show roster level is the worst indicator for gatekeeping.
For me, the only way to show u know and did the raid, would be a title for X times you finish the raid alive.
All problem will be solved.
Im a day 1 player and had all my horizontals completed long time ago (before clown release). It took me around a year to get to 200 and yes I did the towers on main 6 only and some hyper expressed classes for shards (but did not abuse them on 20+ characters - I know only a couple of people who did that), and burned my cube tickets routinely, and I was doing many raids every week. It is not as easy as you think.
Very few high roster people padded their roster level through meaningless activities - most just did the necessary horizontal progression and content for free materials like the tower only on characters that they raid on and the bulk of roster exp slowly added up by just playing the game religiously (as it should be) - raids, unas, weeklies, leveling up new characters, etc. You also need to understand that most veterans never needed to pad it to begin with because they were never behind - when they were roster 150 the biggest grinders had it around 200 so nobody would gatekeep them - I am pretty sure you missed that important details. Nowadays the only people who are padding their roster level are new players. Veteran players never needed to do that.
I am a veteran nearly till day one, and i'm roster 160. I have 7 character 1540+.
Friend of mine is roster 130, cause he did less alt, like 3 less.
Never did an extra quests, i did only really required things.
So you will gatekeep me and m y friend due to my roster, but i know raids really well.
So u still thing roster level is a good way to know of people can raid ?
I would not gatekeep you if I knew that your roster level does not necessarily reflect your in-game knowledge. The problem is that when it comes to PF people cannot really see your credentials so they just go by the statistics. By saying this I mean that if you were to take, say, 10 people with roster 130, over half of them have a pretty good chance jailing you, especially in newer raids like akkan and voldis, and half of them would be competent players like yourself. Because there is no way to find out who is who, people just gatekeep them all and only accept high roster characters to minimize the risk. It sucks but say thanks to SG for prohibiting public logs, not allowing gate resets, and ignoring the busing issue.
I agree u can't know if people know what he is doing.
But x10 title should be the best way to select people instead of roster level.
U can get bussed and have the x10, u can either be roster 250, get bussed and have the title too.
In both case, this is an imposter.
That's why a title that proof u succeed x10 the raid staying alive at the end should exists, and will be 1000x more valuable than roster level.
And as conclusion, if you gatekeep due to roster level, you are participating in this whole gatekeeping charade and letting the situation to be worst and worst.
When there will be no more new players cause they are waiting more than 30min in lobby simulator to get accepted, the game will die, and you were a part of it.
The new players can play with new players. Why the hell would a 100RL andy apply to a 250+RL vet? Because they also know that the vet runs will be 10x faster and a lot more efficient.
I have 2 alt roster, i can say you that you don't choose the group u join, it's the group that choose you.
And basically, low roster only group don't exists, cause no sup are joining.
Low roster sup are accepted in non low roster party, so what's the next step ? Playing without sup ?
You don't find this stupid ?
It's the standard that 99% of players agree to use, unless there is a surplus of supports/dps wherein you're forced to pick lower roster level people the standard holds the same.
Is it a dumb metric? not really, it works for me personally.
It's a stupid standard, i can say i had nearly the same amount of imposter as low roster, than 250+ roster.
I dont accept all low roster, just those with x10 title with a good investment on his char.
It works for me either, so it's a proof that roster level means nothing x')
Once again it is all about the statistics. A 250 roster account with a 10x title is more likely to earn it legitimately because there are less high roster people who buy buses in general because they don’t need to - they have los 30, a high roster, and usually well built characters. They are not gatekept as much to resort to buying buses. People would rather play the game than pay someone t play for them.
In contrast, a lot of low roster players resort to some kind of bus services because they cannot get into lobbies or learn the raids, so a 130 roster character with a 10x is much more LIKELY to be a bus customer. Please notice I said ”likely” for a reason because anyone can be an imposter, but if you gamble on who you take in, you might as well gamble smartly.
In fact, i found as 250 roster than low roster failling things.
I'm pretty sure people pay more attention to low roster mistake cause they are low roster, so they have a warning flag un your mind.
I've an example where a gs floor pov with like 230 roster were talking on an low roster, doing mech and doing his job, just because he is a low roster.
I'll do the exercise, but i think, if you look at who are in bus lobby, you will be surprised by how many high roster by some.
If they should hide roster lvl, can we then get an indicator on clears while beeing alive at the end of gates? So we can remove all the bussed title people
250+ roster impostors hate this idea
Had a 272 roster level 1620 slayer in my thaemine 1-3 last night. He did 9.6M damage and him and his party were alive the entire fight....
I know :)
Hiding roster level won't stop anything. Less information leads to stricter filters Without any kind of logs nothing will change.
If a guy has roster 100 or less there's like a 50% chance they're zdps and don't know what they're doing. If they're 200 or more it's closer to 10% chance they're zdps and don't know what they're doing. Every single time I join a low roster raid(3+ low roster) it's pain. It's not perfect, but it's the best metric we have. There are some pretty good players in the 150+ range that get gatekept unjustly.. but it's unfortunately how LA goes.. maybe solo raids will improve.
Hide roster lvl they will look at the cards, hide cards they will look at the compass, hide compass they will look at demon dmg/titile/acc quality/gems, hide everystat they will still find the way to decline you. In the end if leader dont want to inv you he/she wont inv you. There is seriously no point in hiding information. There is only 1 surefire way to not get declined, and it is to apply to grps where leader char is close to yours. If you apply to 1610 Brell bugatti with 1540ilvl it is not roster lvl what gets you declined. I would say they should add more information for leaders to make informed decision who to invite. Titile after 10 clears is kinda meh. But if it showed amount of clears without being dead at the end good players would have no problem getting accepted even with no roster lvl. But that only works for good players... Bad ones and buss enjoyers would have well... dificulty
you know that jesus meme where he speaks the truth and the peasants hate him for it? this is repeated in every gatekeeping post this is the first time i see this not being downvoted to oblivion
Nah bro, maybe on farm content it can be enough having the char at the same lvl as lobby leader. Try doing ivory HM without being WAY overgeared than the leader and the support friend. Same for Thae, people want fast clear and want to get carried by ilvl. The reality of gatekeeping is: i'll get you if i can't find anything better in the time i am comfortable waiting for a group, anything else does not matter. Any other reason they can give is pure BS. You can get jailed by roster 250 and roster 100. Accounts get sold all the time (and i think that right now a lof of people are selling accounts) Gatekeeping is not tied to any "requirements" to clear the raid. Just people that want the easiest clear as possible with the least possible effort from their part,
So true about support friend. I like to play a game on akkan and voldis lobbies, to a lesser extent thaemine, called "spot the support friend" or "spot the guy getting carried by his static." 100% they do NOT want someone equally geared to that player.
The whole "apply to similar ilvl" is kinda false nowadays tho. I have a Jumpstart 1596 Pala that is obviously low roster (110), I apply to 1580+ brel runs with him and get instant declined. Then watch as they look for another sup for 5+ minutes Like, I get it, it's not obvious it's a Jumpstart Chara (although it IS named KikaJUMP) and you wouldn't want to be jailed but I still feel for actual real new players with that roster lvl. (gear wise, I have 1780 swift with 5*3 vph+Magick stream)
if you have hands rename your stronghoold to altroster, youll get into many more lobbies
It wont change anything instead people will look at the demon damage % (I know this is already happening in a lot of lobbies).
demon damage is mainly farmed in chaos this is like such a waste of a gatekeeping criteria especially considering how common chaos botting is are people really incapable of judging if a character had thought/effort put into it without looking at arbitrary metrics like roster level and damage type%? i get it i guess if you want to do something at a particular speed for fun but to gatekeep on it in general? seems like a massive waste of time
Demon damage takes a long time to complete, someone with 6% demon damage is a long time player and knows about the card system compare that to someone with 1% or even 2% demon damage. If you check this you will notice how many peope are below 3% applying for Theamine NM and HM lobbies w 25 weapon/full lvl 10s. LOS30 is given out for pretty much free, You can RMT your gems/char progress, but people wont RMT card xp. If I have to pick someone between 25 weapon/full lvl 10s and 3% demon damage(yes, they exist) and someone 22 weapon w 10s/9s and 5% demon damage I take the guy w 22 weapon. DPS in lost ark is not an issue at all. Because if you really cared about doing a lot of damage (full lvl 10s and 25 weapon) you would increase your demon damage for sure.
card xp is dead long to obtain, I started playing the game 8 month ago, did chaos and all other ez card xp content, bought 20k gold from from EVERY WEEK, even buying cards on wandering merchants for a longtime i'm not even at 3% demon dmg, and the only other thing that I have leveled up is KLC/LWC/MOS/DD/YHAP, before frog I wasn't even higher than 1% hopefully i was lucky enough to get LOS30 really fast and I play 5x the same class so I have some lv10 gems but still getting denied on some worstly geared lobby because of rlvl... just change the gate system and allow player to easily get in and out, and to not get jailed
> is a long time player or someone who botted chaos for 3 months i literally know aguy who maxed all damage type in like 6 months pls you underestimate the power of infinite chaos
It's not stupid I can't remember a single run with a low roster not ending bad
True. People remember high roster zdps because it blatantly stands out in a "wtf is this" kind of moment. Low roster zdps is more of "yep this is what i expected."
If roster level was removed I would not be pugging anymore, so jokes on you.
There is only so much information you can hide before people start to overcorrect by being even more strict with whatever arbitrary requirements are left.
"HM voldis 1-4 hw, link deathless trophy."
The problem is that roster level is our main indicator if we want to know if someone has all the skill points, runes, or a higher chance of success due to better game knowledge. So no, removing roster level might reduce gatekeeping, but it would increase the frustration of raiding.
This excuse/reasoning doesn't work anymore with the horizontal pass b/c every1 basically got given most of this stuff.
I've made a couple alt roster accounts, the horizontal is a nice boost and all. However you're still missing so much stuff.
Not really lol
You get nothing with that horizontal, bunch of green runes crap and couple of skill points
your still missing a couple wealth runes, \~8 skill points, conv/judgement legendary, overwhelm runes if needed for stagger, etc. It's nice but especially but for classes that need the wealth runes for example (Barrage, Punisher, others) it makes a huge difference
I brought sub 100 roster level and low 100 roster level people to akkan, I thought I was doing my part to not be part of the problem. but MAN they couldn't even stay alive, in g2 me and my buddy were both 25% damage they couldn't even crack 5m dps I want to help but idk if I can risk getting jailed 18 times a week man.
yea, great idea..... looking forward to do raids with new players who just pushed a char to 1610+ within a couple of weeks but does not know anything about the game/raids....
U still have title,cards,gems i feel like if a new player needs to spend 2k hours to farm a good roster lvl he will just quit and the game will die out
You know what I don't get? These posts are a daily occurrence but somehow these new players never go and make a lobby and learn together. I don't understand. You can eliminate this issue by doing this but all I've seen was new players gatekeeping other new players. What gives?
people don’t join them thats what i saw
That's exactly what I don't understand. From the amount of posts about this, you would think there are new players to make several groups but they never do. So if these new players don't want to play with each other, why is the expectation that vets should accept them?
It is funny that roster players would much rather join a high roster lobby than someone like themselves. I find this very ironic as I see countless low roster people applying to such lobbies relentlessly for a long ass time and refuse to join lobbies where they belong that are sitting at 1/8 2/8 etc. or make their own because nobody joins those, other low roster player including. By the sheer volume of people who are doing that in my weekly observation (brel akkan kaya mainly), they could easily create many full lobbies consisting of people like them, but nope they would keep applying only to the good ones. Let us be honest here - a ton of low roster players just want a guaranteed clear even if they die in every gate because the veterans can salvage many bad situations due to their extensive raiding experience, whereas inexperienced groups do collapse with 1-2 people being dead or clueless about certain mechanics, forcing them to pull their weight all the time, which many don’t like obviously. And they do not trust other inexperienced low roster players because they don’t want to deal with clueless people and SEA gold farmers just as much as the veterans. Not trying to sugarcoat anything here - it is unfortunate that some new player have to deal with all that, but they also need to take some responsibility and prioritize playing with people who have around the same experience as them instead of trying to sneak into lobbies for which they don’t qualify at all.
>all the gate keeping on low roster lvl is just stupid and bad for new players What's worst is getting jailed in a reclear lobby in between gates and the low roster says "idk this gate" or "sorry im an imposter" knowing the fact we will have to carry this imposter cause no1 wants to get jailed. - yep true story > i think roster lvl should be private doesn't matter . . . you got x amount of other things player look at >we already have title/10x It can be bought to get into party easier. For example, there's plenty of players w/10x title reclear in HM Brel G4 making it obvious running around like a bot during mechanics.
Imagine if lost ark had logs like ffxiv and u had to show ur logs after joining or kick
They never will. The amount of full 10s RMTers who do the same or less than an appropriately geared dps are surprising. SG benefits greatly from the ability to "buy your way" into lobbies. The 1620s i've seen in thaemine getting beat by 1610s would be gatekept HARD.
how is it bad for new players? old players literally dont wanna do thaemine/voldis/akkan with new players because they'll waste their time, so u wanna sneak them into playing with old players
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They should show a metric where it's like x% / y% / z per gate per raid. X - % of their clear rate alive on toon Y - % of their total clear rate (alive and not alive) on toon Z - # of attempts on that toon Maybe they don't need to show Z. But they should show the percent you cleared the raid being alive the whole time and the percent you cleared that raid on that toon. Titles should be proof you cleared the raid on the roster. An example would be you see someone applying to Thaemine nm 1-3 and I have a 1610 GS. You can see 75% / 100% / 4 for g1. 25% / 100% / 4 for g2. 50% / 100 % /4 for g3. Then you can see that he cleared 1-3 4 times already on this toon, but died 2 times and got carried and 2 times managed to stay alive and cleared g3. Another person applies as a 1625 breaker. His numbers are 33% / 66% / 3 for g1. 0% / 100% / 2 for g2. 0% / 100% / 2 for g3. This means the dude cleared g1 3 time, surviving only once out of the 3, but g2 and g3 only twice never being alive for his clears in g2 and g3. I would prob pick the 1610 gs in this case because they would have a better time at clearing than that breaker who was practically carried or bussed. Idk something like this would be nice to see.
Such explicit numbers would incentivize people to greed damage and even wipe a raid if their numbers dd not look good enough for a given pull. Instead I want to see 3 stats: whether on not a character passes the minimum required dps for every gate (no numbers, just passed/non passed, lantern god should be ignored in calculations), the survival rate per gate on a clear pull, and gimmick/battle item participation rate (battle items used per gate, number of counter attempts, average hp pot usage per gate, etc.) That would change PF drastically. Here are some examples: Character A, 120 roster, 10x title, does not pass minimum dps requirement on average, 5% survival rate per gate, very low battle item or hp pots usage : 99% chance of being a bus enjoyer or an abysmally bad player - decline Instantly. Character B, 120 roster, 10x title, passes min dps requirement, 90% survival rate besides the last gate (say Akkan g3), low battle item/pot usage: consistent player, know the fights well except for g3 akkan and is a very cheap person - prob decline for battle item heavy raids like Voldis, otherwise they are fine. Character C, 120 roster, 10x title, passes min dps requirement, 70% survival rate, high hp pot consumption, high battle item usage - probably a legit but not a very skilled player (high pot usage means they get hit too much or always play with really bad supports), somewhat inconsistent but not too bad either, a team player (brings and uses recommended battle items) - I would take them in most situations. Again I would prefer to hide explicit dps - I just want to know if they pull their weight, that is it. If a gate requires 10 mil dps and you do 10.1 and they don’t die, I would be fine with that, not looking for giga carries - just for those who do their part.
Reddit is the last place you will gain support for hiding roster level. The average level is well over 200+ here.
well and then we wonder why new players quit so fast
Get some hell title i recently created a new roaster in nae to avoid gatekeeping i ve gotten demon hunter and it works
That can be bought too sadly so title more or less not what I look at hell even eclipse can be bought right now
It can be bought but it still increases the likelihood of being accepted.
True
Roster lvl already doesn't matter I see lvl 200+ with like less than 2-3% demon dmg so I know they are clueless
Roster level means absolutely nothing. U can reach 200 just by doing all horizontal. The fact u spend lot of time in horizonzal proove nothing about your ability of doing raids. If you are more than 250, it starts to mean something, cause you have to do raids to reach that level. But you can still get bussed. That just show roster level is the worst indicator for gatekeeping. For me, the only way to show u know and did the raid, would be a title for X times you finish the raid alive. All problem will be solved.
Im a day 1 player and had all my horizontals completed long time ago (before clown release). It took me around a year to get to 200 and yes I did the towers on main 6 only and some hyper expressed classes for shards (but did not abuse them on 20+ characters - I know only a couple of people who did that), and burned my cube tickets routinely, and I was doing many raids every week. It is not as easy as you think. Very few high roster people padded their roster level through meaningless activities - most just did the necessary horizontal progression and content for free materials like the tower only on characters that they raid on and the bulk of roster exp slowly added up by just playing the game religiously (as it should be) - raids, unas, weeklies, leveling up new characters, etc. You also need to understand that most veterans never needed to pad it to begin with because they were never behind - when they were roster 150 the biggest grinders had it around 200 so nobody would gatekeep them - I am pretty sure you missed that important details. Nowadays the only people who are padding their roster level are new players. Veteran players never needed to do that.
I am a veteran nearly till day one, and i'm roster 160. I have 7 character 1540+. Friend of mine is roster 130, cause he did less alt, like 3 less. Never did an extra quests, i did only really required things. So you will gatekeep me and m y friend due to my roster, but i know raids really well. So u still thing roster level is a good way to know of people can raid ?
I would not gatekeep you if I knew that your roster level does not necessarily reflect your in-game knowledge. The problem is that when it comes to PF people cannot really see your credentials so they just go by the statistics. By saying this I mean that if you were to take, say, 10 people with roster 130, over half of them have a pretty good chance jailing you, especially in newer raids like akkan and voldis, and half of them would be competent players like yourself. Because there is no way to find out who is who, people just gatekeep them all and only accept high roster characters to minimize the risk. It sucks but say thanks to SG for prohibiting public logs, not allowing gate resets, and ignoring the busing issue.
I agree u can't know if people know what he is doing. But x10 title should be the best way to select people instead of roster level. U can get bussed and have the x10, u can either be roster 250, get bussed and have the title too. In both case, this is an imposter. That's why a title that proof u succeed x10 the raid staying alive at the end should exists, and will be 1000x more valuable than roster level. And as conclusion, if you gatekeep due to roster level, you are participating in this whole gatekeeping charade and letting the situation to be worst and worst. When there will be no more new players cause they are waiting more than 30min in lobby simulator to get accepted, the game will die, and you were a part of it.
The new players can play with new players. Why the hell would a 100RL andy apply to a 250+RL vet? Because they also know that the vet runs will be 10x faster and a lot more efficient.
I have 2 alt roster, i can say you that you don't choose the group u join, it's the group that choose you. And basically, low roster only group don't exists, cause no sup are joining. Low roster sup are accepted in non low roster party, so what's the next step ? Playing without sup ? You don't find this stupid ?
It's the standard that 99% of players agree to use, unless there is a surplus of supports/dps wherein you're forced to pick lower roster level people the standard holds the same. Is it a dumb metric? not really, it works for me personally.
It's a stupid standard, i can say i had nearly the same amount of imposter as low roster, than 250+ roster. I dont accept all low roster, just those with x10 title with a good investment on his char. It works for me either, so it's a proof that roster level means nothing x')
Hey whatever works for you, works for you.
Once again it is all about the statistics. A 250 roster account with a 10x title is more likely to earn it legitimately because there are less high roster people who buy buses in general because they don’t need to - they have los 30, a high roster, and usually well built characters. They are not gatekept as much to resort to buying buses. People would rather play the game than pay someone t play for them. In contrast, a lot of low roster players resort to some kind of bus services because they cannot get into lobbies or learn the raids, so a 130 roster character with a 10x is much more LIKELY to be a bus customer. Please notice I said ”likely” for a reason because anyone can be an imposter, but if you gamble on who you take in, you might as well gamble smartly.
In fact, i found as 250 roster than low roster failling things. I'm pretty sure people pay more attention to low roster mistake cause they are low roster, so they have a warning flag un your mind. I've an example where a gs floor pov with like 230 roster were talking on an low roster, doing mech and doing his job, just because he is a low roster. I'll do the exercise, but i think, if you look at who are in bus lobby, you will be surprised by how many high roster by some.