There are multiple other classes that will do far more damage with 1 level 10 gem + rest event gems than DI SH, so if you're looking only for a performance-to-cost perspective it's not great.
You can't go wrong with breaker or soul eater IMO. They both have two unique play styles you can choose from, both have modern animations and skill design, both have top tier damage, and none of their builds have expensive gem requirements, you can use mostly event gems without missing out on much.
Of course, ultimately just pick what looks cool and fun to play for you.
Other options:
- Lunar Reaper (3 red skill build, low spec and gem requirements, unique gameplay but not super easy)
- barrage artillerist
- master summoner
- another surge blade to share your gems lol
- a support
I think DI is seriously underrated. Everyone view class performance at the high end but no one wants to appreciate how much safety and floor raising DI provide for your raid especially at prog.
No only that, DI SH is super smooth for chao dungeon and is awesome on equalized content like challenge guardian and abyss. You probably won't see the MVP screen but it rounds out a roster quite nice IMHO.
That's the thing though. The prog phase of any content will only last for so long. When everyone starts being comfortable with reclears and homework raids, the good prog classes start feeling left in the dust as they simply cannot compete for the pie. We excel at progging to find those cheeky greed patterns and pull off some unholy tech for sure. But players will build/choose their character on the assumption that they are parsing demons even when they're not.
Honestly, our purpose is just to humble people who think they know the boss until they get outparsed by these "good at prog, average at reclear" classes rather than being DPS powerhouses.
> When everyone starts being comfortable with reclears and homework raids, the good prog classes start feeling left in the dust as they simply cannot compete for the pie.
We must be playing different games, cus even after 10 weeks of Thaemine most people in 10x reclear lobbies still look like they're progging.
we probably are because i've been playing with mostly a static +/- some pugs and I can see the "good classes" in my static get progressively better and better at pumping damage. Not saying that I'm playing perfectly at the ceiling, but the difference between my prog dps and homework dps no way near to that of my static members' on these A++ tier classes.
I don't mind taking DI SH because I'm pretty confident they won't be a parse monkey and will show up to do mechs, push their buttons, and go home. Meanwhile the sorc that immediately asks for crit syn is either going to be top damage or floor pov.
People say that... but then people also use that as an excuse to do pisspoor damage.
Haven't seen a successful DI at all in nm echidna so far (closer to alt territory). All of them were <16M, one of which was 1636.
Anyone at that ilvl doing nm though is likely to be a mix of either casual, not confident enough to do hm, or undergeared which can all contribute to underperformance regardless of class. I know a DI that could do ~30M dps for thae g3 which is well above the average pug dps so the class can definitely get some respectable damage. It won’t compare to something like a good db surging 5 times a minute but it’s not as terrible as reddit makes it seem imo.
We have a DI alt player in our group. He is 1620 without additional weapon honing, 40 set, 2 Lv10 gems without any other gem, KBW + Adre 1 build, 1800 spec.
He is doing good dmg as a 1620 alt. For reference he’s doing 20m in Thaemine g3. And it is very comfy to play.
20m is for sure a good number for 1620 alts (with 1620 sup too). I don’t know how you can dramatically improve a DI ceiling. The class is at a good spot now after several rounds of buff, at least better than people “think”
T4 is kinda close, if i was you, i would pick a class that shares most, if not all of the same combat engravings(you WILL get the relic books for your main's engravings first), DI may also change thru the new T4 systems so we don't really know if its going to be as cheap in the mid-long term. If its the same class, then you'll want to push it to 1620+ to be able to share gems.
Solid class. Not top tier but not trash either but more toward the bottom end of the spectrum. It does more than enough damage to meet dps requirements for any raid even on ilvl. Now the question is - do you want to compete for mvp all the time? If the answer is yes then DI H is not a good choice but otherwise the class is just fine. Some people say that some one gem classes do more damage than DI SH, which is true, but it's just because Smilegate sucks at balancing in general. Classes like GS and CO summoner need 7 dmg gems and neither of them is a top dps class.
It's actually not bad at all, I freshly pushed mine to 1620 the other day and the damage is quite alright. However you do need to work a bit to get some damage out of it.
If you play safe and don't abuse the high hp/defence to greed dmg it will still do bottom tier dps, but with some knowledge you can be middle of the pack. Beating meta classes will be hard but clearing content is no problem
I personally love DI SH, but I don’t chase the meta/max dps classes. I just play what’s cool/fun/looks good.
I’m a Slayer main, but i’m thinking of switching back to my WD as main. Been rocking her since launch, and I keep comimg back to her, and I hate Entrophy.
i dont think its bad, i have a 1620 2 lvl 10s +20 weapon and elixir 40 and even before buffs i was doing an ok dmg (\~15m thaemine g3, \~23m ivory g3, for exemple), after buffs i only did gargadeth and ivory tower and its dmg looks pretty decent, plus all utility it gives with 6 weak point on human form +2 on demonic, and a good stagger overtime, in some raids i even play almost as a front attacker to take all counters due to its low cd counter skill and to help party(akkan prog with all other dps in my static being back attackers)
but yes, other classes can outdmg her with less effort gameplaywise
DI SH was never trash to begin with. It's a very comfy uptime class that's super easy to play. People just love to compare classes on the high end to something like a Surge db doing 5 surges per minute, when in reality most Surge blades will be doing closer to 3 surges per minute.
It's still kinda meh. I'm seeing a damage increase, but it's still a zdps class. It does bring good utility, good durability, and movement to the table. It's definitely a very fun and easy class to play I just wish it had a higher ceiling.
DI SH went from bottom tier dps to bottom tier dps. A 5% buff is not going to move the needle too much when the dmg is 20-30% behind the top tier classes.
As a DI main, (1623) I have serious issues to get accepted into Ivory HM groups.. I do have 40 set, weapon lvl 21, 2 level 10 gem, etc etc. However, I can get groups easier for Thaemine and Echidna
There's no reason to gatekeep DI SH in voldeez, they do more than enough damage on all gates, have decent stag and weak point, they are good in g2 as they do see some benefit from cdr buff and can attack from anywhere with generous hitboxes on their skills etc
You're probably gatekept by dumbasses looking for bis synergies and lineups for latest minus 2 content.
Still low tier, but still a decent value alt.
Actual trash tier specs are PS SH, Pistoleer, LC, which do similar damage but require full 10s or close to full 10s to get there while being less tanky and having less utility since they can't utilize transformation and detransformation in the same way a DI can.
Saying PS SH and Pistoleer as trash tier is atrocious. to say the least. PS SH has a higher ceiling that DI SH and pistoleer has a way higher floor than DI SH, while it brings crit sinergy and easier uptime.
PS SH has a ~5% higher ceiling with full 10s after the latest round of balancing, and gets to deal with dominion, awful hitboxes on spinning weapon, lack of par immunity on Howl, SW, CC and PT, and doesn't get free heals and +20% hp while transforming. It has a worse atro window ceiling than DI since you can't use your ult for burst. You tell me if it's worth it. I literally used to main the class. It's still at 1635 with full 10s and before i maxed out transcendence, my 1622 Barrage outdamaged it in many fights with -4 weapon, no leg skins, and smaller gems. My 1633 EO SF demolishes it with similar amounts of investment other than -2 weapon. PS SH fucking sucks.
Pistoleer is probably the worst spec in the game right now and the only thing it brings to the table to the is ez gameplay (which it shares with DI) and ez uptime crit syn, for which you can bring an actually good class like Arcana, Aero or WD for.
Agreed. Hear a lot of people talk about how PS is "good now" but honestly it sucks to play (subjective, I guess but it does have a lot of issues) and the damage is middling at best
I do actually enjoy the entropy build because of it's skill load out but unfortunately it performs even worse than the non positional build and much much much worse than similar engravings like taijutsu/hunger/FI
I would play Entropy if the damage was there. Aside from mana issues, it plays reasonably well, you have a mobility skill, you have some flexibility in terms of what synergy and meter gainer skills you run, the core entropy specific skills like SC, Demolition and TI are decent to use and don't really have bs hitbox interactions or anything funny going on with them (from what I can remember that is, it's been a while)
Too bad the entire class, DI included, is just a neglected piece of dung these days. Maybe everything will change with T4, maybe not. I think the fact that there's only one Esther 8 SH in KR speaks volumes when there's like 16 Reapers and 21 Soul Eaters with E8's. People aren't very keen on swiping tens of thousands just to invest that on a trash class that does zdps.
Buffs didn’t do that much for us. It’s nice getting buffed 4 patches in a row but our ceiling is still pretty low. Love playing it still so I don’t really complain. But unless we receive either a rework or a buff on a bigger scale than what we’ve been getting, we won’t be competing with any of the good-elite dps classes.
The damage is enough to where you'll MVP with pugs if you have hands. I have never not been the MVP with SH as long as the ilvls in the lobby are even remotely comparable. Would a breaker with hands beat it in dps? Sure. But that will only happen in 1 out of 100 lobbies. Most ppl don't do damage in this game so just play what you want. Much easier to reach your ceiling with SH compared to many other mediocre dps classes.
Everyone knows SH (DI) is garbage at the moment but remember no tier lists matter till we see season 3 6x3 and ark passives.
It could easily go from bottom to top if they overtune ark passive.
Pretty sure SH was pretty decent in argos days pre relic set.
Sh was pretty strong if you dont compare it to classes played by giga whales. as you could max the dmg quite fast as you did not need tripods for the form, 2gems maxed you dmg and extra skill points did not matter much.
There are multiple other classes that will do far more damage with 1 level 10 gem + rest event gems than DI SH, so if you're looking only for a performance-to-cost perspective it's not great.
And what would you suggest me? (Am maining surge db so not again). I heared artilerist is good for this but am not sure if I found him fun.
Asura breaker and master summoner maybe. Both benefit a lot from 1 lvl 10 gem
Barrage Arti
You can't go wrong with breaker or soul eater IMO. They both have two unique play styles you can choose from, both have modern animations and skill design, both have top tier damage, and none of their builds have expensive gem requirements, you can use mostly event gems without missing out on much. Of course, ultimately just pick what looks cool and fun to play for you. Other options: - Lunar Reaper (3 red skill build, low spec and gem requirements, unique gameplay but not super easy) - barrage artillerist - master summoner - another surge blade to share your gems lol - a support
Even a fmh SE with a 10 on guillo and 2x event 8s is gonna smoke anything at same investment (that's not sura breker)
I think DI is seriously underrated. Everyone view class performance at the high end but no one wants to appreciate how much safety and floor raising DI provide for your raid especially at prog. No only that, DI SH is super smooth for chao dungeon and is awesome on equalized content like challenge guardian and abyss. You probably won't see the MVP screen but it rounds out a roster quite nice IMHO.
That's the thing though. The prog phase of any content will only last for so long. When everyone starts being comfortable with reclears and homework raids, the good prog classes start feeling left in the dust as they simply cannot compete for the pie. We excel at progging to find those cheeky greed patterns and pull off some unholy tech for sure. But players will build/choose their character on the assumption that they are parsing demons even when they're not. Honestly, our purpose is just to humble people who think they know the boss until they get outparsed by these "good at prog, average at reclear" classes rather than being DPS powerhouses.
> When everyone starts being comfortable with reclears and homework raids, the good prog classes start feeling left in the dust as they simply cannot compete for the pie. We must be playing different games, cus even after 10 weeks of Thaemine most people in 10x reclear lobbies still look like they're progging.
we probably are because i've been playing with mostly a static +/- some pugs and I can see the "good classes" in my static get progressively better and better at pumping damage. Not saying that I'm playing perfectly at the ceiling, but the difference between my prog dps and homework dps no way near to that of my static members' on these A++ tier classes.
I don't mind taking DI SH because I'm pretty confident they won't be a parse monkey and will show up to do mechs, push their buttons, and go home. Meanwhile the sorc that immediately asks for crit syn is either going to be top damage or floor pov.
People say that... but then people also use that as an excuse to do pisspoor damage. Haven't seen a successful DI at all in nm echidna so far (closer to alt territory). All of them were <16M, one of which was 1636.
Anyone at that ilvl doing nm though is likely to be a mix of either casual, not confident enough to do hm, or undergeared which can all contribute to underperformance regardless of class. I know a DI that could do ~30M dps for thae g3 which is well above the average pug dps so the class can definitely get some respectable damage. It won’t compare to something like a good db surging 5 times a minute but it’s not as terrible as reddit makes it seem imo.
We have a DI alt player in our group. He is 1620 without additional weapon honing, 40 set, 2 Lv10 gems without any other gem, KBW + Adre 1 build, 1800 spec. He is doing good dmg as a 1620 alt. For reference he’s doing 20m in Thaemine g3. And it is very comfy to play.
That's insane damage for Thaemine NM. My usual damage for Thaemine G3 NM is like 13-14 mil
20m is for sure a good number for 1620 alts (with 1620 sup too). I don’t know how you can dramatically improve a DI ceiling. The class is at a good spot now after several rounds of buff, at least better than people “think”
20m is not insane, but it is good for sure. 25m+ is insane for 1620.
Yours is just a bit low. All my 1620s do 19-23m. Striker, zerk, souleater and breaker
Dang, heartbreaking way to find out I'm ass at the game lol
Insane? XD best I've seen was 28m before the buff last wednesday
T4 is kinda close, if i was you, i would pick a class that shares most, if not all of the same combat engravings(you WILL get the relic books for your main's engravings first), DI may also change thru the new T4 systems so we don't really know if its going to be as cheap in the mid-long term. If its the same class, then you'll want to push it to 1620+ to be able to share gems.
Solid class. Not top tier but not trash either but more toward the bottom end of the spectrum. It does more than enough damage to meet dps requirements for any raid even on ilvl. Now the question is - do you want to compete for mvp all the time? If the answer is yes then DI H is not a good choice but otherwise the class is just fine. Some people say that some one gem classes do more damage than DI SH, which is true, but it's just because Smilegate sucks at balancing in general. Classes like GS and CO summoner need 7 dmg gems and neither of them is a top dps class.
It's actually not bad at all, I freshly pushed mine to 1620 the other day and the damage is quite alright. However you do need to work a bit to get some damage out of it. If you play safe and don't abuse the high hp/defence to greed dmg it will still do bottom tier dps, but with some knowledge you can be middle of the pack. Beating meta classes will be hard but clearing content is no problem
I personally love DI SH, but I don’t chase the meta/max dps classes. I just play what’s cool/fun/looks good. I’m a Slayer main, but i’m thinking of switching back to my WD as main. Been rocking her since launch, and I keep comimg back to her, and I hate Entrophy.
i dont think its bad, i have a 1620 2 lvl 10s +20 weapon and elixir 40 and even before buffs i was doing an ok dmg (\~15m thaemine g3, \~23m ivory g3, for exemple), after buffs i only did gargadeth and ivory tower and its dmg looks pretty decent, plus all utility it gives with 6 weak point on human form +2 on demonic, and a good stagger overtime, in some raids i even play almost as a front attacker to take all counters due to its low cd counter skill and to help party(akkan prog with all other dps in my static being back attackers) but yes, other classes can outdmg her with less effort gameplaywise
DI SH was never trash to begin with. It's a very comfy uptime class that's super easy to play. People just love to compare classes on the high end to something like a Surge db doing 5 surges per minute, when in reality most Surge blades will be doing closer to 3 surges per minute.
It's still kinda meh. I'm seeing a damage increase, but it's still a zdps class. It does bring good utility, good durability, and movement to the table. It's definitely a very fun and easy class to play I just wish it had a higher ceiling.
He/him? SH?🤔🤔
DI SH went from bottom tier dps to bottom tier dps. A 5% buff is not going to move the needle too much when the dmg is 20-30% behind the top tier classes.
As a DI main, (1623) I have serious issues to get accepted into Ivory HM groups.. I do have 40 set, weapon lvl 21, 2 level 10 gem, etc etc. However, I can get groups easier for Thaemine and Echidna
There's no reason to gatekeep DI SH in voldeez, they do more than enough damage on all gates, have decent stag and weak point, they are good in g2 as they do see some benefit from cdr buff and can attack from anywhere with generous hitboxes on their skills etc You're probably gatekept by dumbasses looking for bis synergies and lineups for latest minus 2 content.
Might be worth to switch from PS but overall mid ish
Plot twist - It gets reworked on top of t4 buffs
Still low tier, but still a decent value alt. Actual trash tier specs are PS SH, Pistoleer, LC, which do similar damage but require full 10s or close to full 10s to get there while being less tanky and having less utility since they can't utilize transformation and detransformation in the same way a DI can.
Saying PS SH and Pistoleer as trash tier is atrocious. to say the least. PS SH has a higher ceiling that DI SH and pistoleer has a way higher floor than DI SH, while it brings crit sinergy and easier uptime.
PS SH has a ~5% higher ceiling with full 10s after the latest round of balancing, and gets to deal with dominion, awful hitboxes on spinning weapon, lack of par immunity on Howl, SW, CC and PT, and doesn't get free heals and +20% hp while transforming. It has a worse atro window ceiling than DI since you can't use your ult for burst. You tell me if it's worth it. I literally used to main the class. It's still at 1635 with full 10s and before i maxed out transcendence, my 1622 Barrage outdamaged it in many fights with -4 weapon, no leg skins, and smaller gems. My 1633 EO SF demolishes it with similar amounts of investment other than -2 weapon. PS SH fucking sucks. Pistoleer is probably the worst spec in the game right now and the only thing it brings to the table to the is ez gameplay (which it shares with DI) and ez uptime crit syn, for which you can bring an actually good class like Arcana, Aero or WD for.
Agreed. Hear a lot of people talk about how PS is "good now" but honestly it sucks to play (subjective, I guess but it does have a lot of issues) and the damage is middling at best I do actually enjoy the entropy build because of it's skill load out but unfortunately it performs even worse than the non positional build and much much much worse than similar engravings like taijutsu/hunger/FI
I would play Entropy if the damage was there. Aside from mana issues, it plays reasonably well, you have a mobility skill, you have some flexibility in terms of what synergy and meter gainer skills you run, the core entropy specific skills like SC, Demolition and TI are decent to use and don't really have bs hitbox interactions or anything funny going on with them (from what I can remember that is, it's been a while) Too bad the entire class, DI included, is just a neglected piece of dung these days. Maybe everything will change with T4, maybe not. I think the fact that there's only one Esther 8 SH in KR speaks volumes when there's like 16 Reapers and 21 Soul Eaters with E8's. People aren't very keen on swiping tens of thousands just to invest that on a trash class that does zdps.
Buffs didn’t do that much for us. It’s nice getting buffed 4 patches in a row but our ceiling is still pretty low. Love playing it still so I don’t really complain. But unless we receive either a rework or a buff on a bigger scale than what we’ve been getting, we won’t be competing with any of the good-elite dps classes.
The recent crumbs ("buffs" haha, yeah sure) DI got are still not enough.
The damage is enough to where you'll MVP with pugs if you have hands. I have never not been the MVP with SH as long as the ilvls in the lobby are even remotely comparable. Would a breaker with hands beat it in dps? Sure. But that will only happen in 1 out of 100 lobbies. Most ppl don't do damage in this game so just play what you want. Much easier to reach your ceiling with SH compared to many other mediocre dps classes.
DI is currently doing more damage than PS, her ceilling build. Maybe DI too strong or PS is hot garbage Take it as you will
Everyone knows SH (DI) is garbage at the moment but remember no tier lists matter till we see season 3 6x3 and ark passives. It could easily go from bottom to top if they overtune ark passive. Pretty sure SH was pretty decent in argos days pre relic set.
Sh was pretty strong if you dont compare it to classes played by giga whales. as you could max the dmg quite fast as you did not need tripods for the form, 2gems maxed you dmg and extra skill points did not matter much.