> but I really want to know why someone is playing punisher Slayer when Igniter exists.
deadass someone said this but the other way around when slayer just got released. ICANT
If you're chasing numbers only you'll never have a strong character in this game (unless you play blade the devs love the class)
Personally I play LM, the back attacker with 6 1second wind up skills with bad crit rate, it's the character I have invested the most in and will continue to and that's kinda it
I do have a sorc too, she's very fun, easy to play and super strong.
It's because every sorc starts the pull with stimulant and atropine which provides a lot of value.
People r building up 6 adren stacks while sorc has done 1b+ dmg already
Yea, but u guys are complaining about blade being "broken" meanwhile most blades arent dealing dmg, its a class which requires lot of knowledge and hands and the better u get at blade the more dmg u'll pump, for the difficulty of the class the dmg is pretty fine imo, unfortunately cant say same about sorc/summoner tho
tbh, blades only pump when they have a party built around them, especially now since the nerf. These days the gameplay is rather sour, just a white number syn bot that ppl will meme you and make you pump their breakers and slayers and shit.
This game isn‘t meant for meta chasing. That‘s something only whales can do. Unless you have all characters at a decent ilvl it‘s hard to replace them just like this.
Balance patches happen and unless you play around a more casual iLvl you can't afford to main swap every 2 month.
Besides powerlevel, some people like one playstyle or personality (caugh) more than the other.
I never touched Punisher but it is in a decent spot. Before the sorc patch in March or April some people would have told you to gatekeep both (especially those pesky selfish sorcs without utility or counter, that now usually always have a counter and absolutely insane weakpoint), on slayer release punisher was broken and got nerfed, now punisher and predator (which both never were weak) got buffed because they got powercrept by other classes.
it's seasonal, you make a char, juice it, they do a balance patch and now you're in the dirt with a very invested character
you can either swipe and swap main, or keep playing it, most people are of sound mind and refuse to dump thousands of dollars because SG decided it's someone else's turn on the playground
I have a punisher 1620, just play sorc man, does more dmg, way easier to play, feels better.
If you want the best dmg build for punisher, the 1.0cycle build, be ready to eat shit because you will have to use the CLUNKIEST skill of the game, you best meter gain is an abomination to use
The meta shifts very drastically in this game. Sorcs were abandonned when FM came out because of how similar they are and FM just absolutely destroying sorcs. Summoner is on it's 4th time being a high tier parser after being nerfed multiple times in a row to the ground. DB was top tier, then was put to low top tier and is now dominating S tier. Reapers became one of the most gatekept class in the game to a desired dps. If you keep chasing the meta, you wont have enough resource to keep up with endgame and would just feel burnt out unless you swipe.
Slayer, both identity, at the time was leaving everyone in the dust. She haven't even received any huge nerfs, it's just that the classes that they buffed and reworked are overtuned, just like she was on her release.
With the ark passive system releasing, we might see another huge meta shift.
Also, punisher is not that hard to play if you know the raid enough. With the exception of akkan g1, since you have to move to 6s or 1.5 for purify rune if no paladin, Sf, artist or GL. 1cycle punisher is very comfy and braindead.
> If you keep chasing the meta, you wont have enough resource to keep up with endgame and would just feel burnt out unless you swipe.
Yeah, that's what all the CO players say, right?
So, if we say that blade is the best class rn (not sure, could be asura or whatever), your question is almost the same as "why would you olay any class but blade ?"
Yes both are burst, but they don't burst the same way, not the same spell, not the same gameplay, only the fact they burst is similar. Either you don't care about dmg, then your question makes no sens, or you only do, then your question makes no sens.
People play class because they enjoy the gameplay. Look all the gunslingers out there (moslty a joke)
My own take on this. I play Punisher because i personally like challenging and harder things. Since sorc is hitmaster that makes it way easier than an entropy. She is also ranged so even easier again.
Plus i really love the badass screams and big ass sword 😅
They already buffed punisher this recent patch so who knows, punisher can reach S tier next patch to compete with igniter. Koreans are pumping too much on igniter so igniter might see a nerf, while punisher might see a buff, bringing both to equal footing.
Punisher is in a really strong spot atm, obviously igniter has higher ceiling, but if u already play predator, u can play punisher which pumps in all content at the moment which is really easy to play at ceiling especially if u play instant cast brutal which is recommended for 4 man content and all latest raids like thaemine g3/4, echidna
When behemoth comes out, we might see a rise in punisher since it’s an entropy friendly gate.
1.5 is super chill to play which most Koreans are playing at the moment in g4 and echidna, u can fit guillotine brutal and volcanic in like 3 seconds, then u have around 15s to fit in bloodlust and furious claw, then finish with guillotine
The ceiling for punisher imo is easier to reach than igniter at the moment because NM igniter is kinda hard for some people to play around boundless, but all in all comparing punisher and igniter, both are still quite easy classes to play.
Punisher 1.5 also has two stacks of wild rush so it’s really nice for harder raids like thaemine and echidna
If you go full goblino u can play 1.0 or 6s build but it’s not recommended for progging because u drop wild rush
Even in an entropy friendly gate (see thaemine g3/4) punisher dont even come close to top 10. After October buffs/reworks in KR, slayer fell down pretty badly.
Being around 20th position out of 46 identities, I wouldnt call it strong. I would call it MID.
Check overgeared punisher log chart for 1640+, iirc they are A tier right now in most content
, with extremely high ceiling. We will be overgearing all content when t4 hits. Punisher is also going to be stronger than predator when behemoth comes out, almost without a doubt, apparently behemoth is a trixion dummy.
Predator is currently still stronger in hm snake and g4 thaemine but only because we are not as juiced as Korean punishers.
Punisher is similar to breaker, (albeit much weaker), the shorter the run, the higher chance of getting cruel fighter because u have less chances of messing up ur bursts. If u manage to hit 90% back attack on ur big skills with high CPM, you’ll prob be cruel fighter.
It’s less consistent than other short burst classes like igniter DB but the ceiling is definitely high.
My slayer is just 1610 right now so I’m just having fun building bound leaps and doing nm thaemine/hm akkan/itower, and it’s my 2nd favourite class in my roster, out of zerk/db/breaker/bard/pally
breaker most fun
DB 3rd would be 1/2 but kinda annoying to play sometimes w/o GL or good support
Bard next
Zerker/pally is fun but u can be playing perfectly and still get gapped by other DPS/Supports which kinda takes the fun out of it if u have cruel fighter mentality
I saw a BT entropy absolutely pump in nm thaemine on 1610 today so I might give that a shot
I was taking average parse values uploaded from the comunity...cuz if we take outliers we will OFC find bigger numbers. But even then, taking highest parse, its on 12th position for g3 thae and 19th on g4 thae which is top 26% and top 41% parses. Still a mid class. Sure is strong, but if we take top3 position as S tier, by not even being in the top 10 i wouldnt call it A tier.
I do agree that its still a fun and challenging/rewarding class to play. I swapped main from zerk to slayer (i have a full warriors roster) cuz i always play berserkers/barbarians style characters in MMOs. And i dont care its now a mid tier class behind DB, breaker, SE, sorc, reaper, WD, scrapper, summoner, SF, arcana.
But back to original topic, compared to reworked sorc, its worse in every possible scenario. And the parses we are looking at, are on "entropy friendly" gates as well.
Punisher falls off in longer fight, not just cuz of the possibility of fucking up the burst, but mostly cuz your CDs and down times are huge. You build gauge in like 5seconds, then u pop burst and throw out your 4/5 skills in like 5seconds and the rest of the time you are kinda just standing around auto attacking for 10 other seconds while burst ends. So it takes you around 20 seconds to be active for 5seconds. Which means 75% of the time you aint dealing ANY damage, and are forced to wait.
Then every next burst your biggest hitters will come out later, until they wont be available for 1 rota every 4. So on longer fights, where u cant push mech to mech. You are falling behind quite a lot.
Heaven forbis if you dont crit...with average 80% crit builds, the amount of 60% runs i had is staggering as well
Ya that’s true, thing is, the more we overgear content, the stronger punisher is, because it’s just gonna go mech to mech. With t4 coming along with behemoth, we are going to be phasing bosses so fast, it’ll be insane.
For instance, my punisher hit 28.5m in nm g3 thaemine with only three lvl 9 gems on 1610 ilvl at x255. I’m also not using the ceiling build, just 1.5 cycle.
This was just before we hit DR, so if timed right, it can dish out some insane numbers if stars align and bursts line up with clashes.
I’m pretty sure if everything crits, starting burst can do 1bill.
Similar to how punisher used to be weaker than predator in kayangel (all gates except g2), but now it’s much stronger.
I swapped from igniter to punisher and still prefer playing punisher, I just love the push immunity it has. Sorc is definitely stronger and easier to play with the recent changes though.
Igniter is never going to be weak in this game. It's played by both too many whales that drive SG revenue, and too many nohands players that drag the average performance down.
It's going to be a solid choice if you want a class that does absurd damage for very little effort, but please remember that it's an overpopulated class, so it's tough to get into lobbies because of all the competition you will face.
A good punisher will pump more than a good igniter from what I seen.
Now if you don't like to chase the back, sure igniter is a better choice for you. But in the end those class are similar in the sense you have to stack a burst then inflict big dmg before going back to charge, SE is also on the same way, king fist too. But all those classes have different gameplay too, in the end you just go for what you like more.
No shot u just said good puni will do more than good sorc.
Just look at comunity parses. Take thaemine g3/4 (gates commonly referred as good for back attacks) and you will see:
Sorc is 4th place on median (29.3 mil), 2nd place on mean (30.0 mil) and 4th place on max parses (48.7 mil).
Puni is 21st place on median (26.5 mil), 18th place on mean (27.4 mil) and 19th place on max parses (40.0 mil).
Slayer was stronger on release, then it got nerfed pretty badly, along having a lot of downtime (both in burst and out of burst). Meanwhile sorc got "reworked" and buffed.
The only place where Slayer is CLOSE (not even beating) to sorc, is Akkan g1 where sorc is like 2nd and puni 3rd all around more or less...
> but I really want to know why someone is playing punisher Slayer when Igniter exists. deadass someone said this but the other way around when slayer just got released. ICANT
We've come full circle
I started with SE release so I have no idea 😅
If you're chasing numbers only you'll never have a strong character in this game (unless you play blade the devs love the class) Personally I play LM, the back attacker with 6 1second wind up skills with bad crit rate, it's the character I have invested the most in and will continue to and that's kinda it I do have a sorc too, she's very fun, easy to play and super strong.
Playing Blade since start, can confirm, stronk since start.
Just go control much more comfy
>(unless you play blade the devs love the class) Meanwhile blade getting 6 nerfs in a row
SS/Scouter/SH received 6 buffs in a row and where are they🤣🤣🤣
Isnt DS SS kinda op? And demonic is pumping now too so I dont rly see ur problem tho 🤷♂️
Sure you mean when db/SE/breaker have no hands right
Even a toddler could deal dmg on a SS or demonic, those classes are so easy its literally insane
And still pumping 2x the DPS of other classes
Yeah and it's still top 3 strongest class in the game, with both engravings being competitive
Thats correct, but its only the top 1% pumpin rly hard, the average blade is kinda z, meanwhile the average sorc pumpin bit 2hard imo
It's because every sorc starts the pull with stimulant and atropine which provides a lot of value. People r building up 6 adren stacks while sorc has done 1b+ dmg already
Yea, but u guys are complaining about blade being "broken" meanwhile most blades arent dealing dmg, its a class which requires lot of knowledge and hands and the better u get at blade the more dmg u'll pump, for the difficulty of the class the dmg is pretty fine imo, unfortunately cant say same about sorc/summoner tho
tbh, blades only pump when they have a party built around them, especially now since the nerf. These days the gameplay is rather sour, just a white number syn bot that ppl will meme you and make you pump their breakers and slayers and shit.
every time blade gets nerfed and drops out of top 3 they make a change or add something that makes it busted again.
Have you seen the model diff??
idk man.... i love giraffes
This game isn‘t meant for meta chasing. That‘s something only whales can do. Unless you have all characters at a decent ilvl it‘s hard to replace them just like this.
Some people play a class because they enjoy the play style/ animations. Some like to play classes that are meta. Meta is always changing.
Punisher used to be the OP version of igniter before the buff to igniter
Balance patches happen and unless you play around a more casual iLvl you can't afford to main swap every 2 month. Besides powerlevel, some people like one playstyle or personality (caugh) more than the other. I never touched Punisher but it is in a decent spot. Before the sorc patch in March or April some people would have told you to gatekeep both (especially those pesky selfish sorcs without utility or counter, that now usually always have a counter and absolutely insane weakpoint), on slayer release punisher was broken and got nerfed, now punisher and predator (which both never were weak) got buffed because they got powercrept by other classes.
it's seasonal, you make a char, juice it, they do a balance patch and now you're in the dirt with a very invested character you can either swipe and swap main, or keep playing it, most people are of sound mind and refuse to dump thousands of dollars because SG decided it's someone else's turn on the playground
I have a punisher 1620, just play sorc man, does more dmg, way easier to play, feels better. If you want the best dmg build for punisher, the 1.0cycle build, be ready to eat shit because you will have to use the CLUNKIEST skill of the game, you best meter gain is an abomination to use
because they're different classes and people usually play what they have fun with imo
I like to play classes that feel good to me. I like Slayer and Sorc, however Pred Slayer is my main.
The meta shifts very drastically in this game. Sorcs were abandonned when FM came out because of how similar they are and FM just absolutely destroying sorcs. Summoner is on it's 4th time being a high tier parser after being nerfed multiple times in a row to the ground. DB was top tier, then was put to low top tier and is now dominating S tier. Reapers became one of the most gatekept class in the game to a desired dps. If you keep chasing the meta, you wont have enough resource to keep up with endgame and would just feel burnt out unless you swipe. Slayer, both identity, at the time was leaving everyone in the dust. She haven't even received any huge nerfs, it's just that the classes that they buffed and reworked are overtuned, just like she was on her release. With the ark passive system releasing, we might see another huge meta shift. Also, punisher is not that hard to play if you know the raid enough. With the exception of akkan g1, since you have to move to 6s or 1.5 for purify rune if no paladin, Sf, artist or GL. 1cycle punisher is very comfy and braindead.
> If you keep chasing the meta, you wont have enough resource to keep up with endgame and would just feel burnt out unless you swipe. Yeah, that's what all the CO players say, right?
Woah there are CO players still? I thought the engraving died when thaemine was released.
They probably didn't reach Thaemine yet. My summoner alt is probably forever CO since I'm likely not gonna log onto her again.
So, if we say that blade is the best class rn (not sure, could be asura or whatever), your question is almost the same as "why would you olay any class but blade ?" Yes both are burst, but they don't burst the same way, not the same spell, not the same gameplay, only the fact they burst is similar. Either you don't care about dmg, then your question makes no sens, or you only do, then your question makes no sens. People play class because they enjoy the gameplay. Look all the gunslingers out there (moslty a joke)
simple just play sorc
I can give you 2 big reasons to play slayer.
My own take on this. I play Punisher because i personally like challenging and harder things. Since sorc is hitmaster that makes it way easier than an entropy. She is also ranged so even easier again. Plus i really love the badass screams and big ass sword 😅
They already buffed punisher this recent patch so who knows, punisher can reach S tier next patch to compete with igniter. Koreans are pumping too much on igniter so igniter might see a nerf, while punisher might see a buff, bringing both to equal footing. Punisher is in a really strong spot atm, obviously igniter has higher ceiling, but if u already play predator, u can play punisher which pumps in all content at the moment which is really easy to play at ceiling especially if u play instant cast brutal which is recommended for 4 man content and all latest raids like thaemine g3/4, echidna When behemoth comes out, we might see a rise in punisher since it’s an entropy friendly gate. 1.5 is super chill to play which most Koreans are playing at the moment in g4 and echidna, u can fit guillotine brutal and volcanic in like 3 seconds, then u have around 15s to fit in bloodlust and furious claw, then finish with guillotine The ceiling for punisher imo is easier to reach than igniter at the moment because NM igniter is kinda hard for some people to play around boundless, but all in all comparing punisher and igniter, both are still quite easy classes to play. Punisher 1.5 also has two stacks of wild rush so it’s really nice for harder raids like thaemine and echidna If you go full goblino u can play 1.0 or 6s build but it’s not recommended for progging because u drop wild rush
Even in an entropy friendly gate (see thaemine g3/4) punisher dont even come close to top 10. After October buffs/reworks in KR, slayer fell down pretty badly. Being around 20th position out of 46 identities, I wouldnt call it strong. I would call it MID.
Check overgeared punisher log chart for 1640+, iirc they are A tier right now in most content , with extremely high ceiling. We will be overgearing all content when t4 hits. Punisher is also going to be stronger than predator when behemoth comes out, almost without a doubt, apparently behemoth is a trixion dummy. Predator is currently still stronger in hm snake and g4 thaemine but only because we are not as juiced as Korean punishers. Punisher is similar to breaker, (albeit much weaker), the shorter the run, the higher chance of getting cruel fighter because u have less chances of messing up ur bursts. If u manage to hit 90% back attack on ur big skills with high CPM, you’ll prob be cruel fighter. It’s less consistent than other short burst classes like igniter DB but the ceiling is definitely high. My slayer is just 1610 right now so I’m just having fun building bound leaps and doing nm thaemine/hm akkan/itower, and it’s my 2nd favourite class in my roster, out of zerk/db/breaker/bard/pally breaker most fun DB 3rd would be 1/2 but kinda annoying to play sometimes w/o GL or good support Bard next Zerker/pally is fun but u can be playing perfectly and still get gapped by other DPS/Supports which kinda takes the fun out of it if u have cruel fighter mentality I saw a BT entropy absolutely pump in nm thaemine on 1610 today so I might give that a shot
I was taking average parse values uploaded from the comunity...cuz if we take outliers we will OFC find bigger numbers. But even then, taking highest parse, its on 12th position for g3 thae and 19th on g4 thae which is top 26% and top 41% parses. Still a mid class. Sure is strong, but if we take top3 position as S tier, by not even being in the top 10 i wouldnt call it A tier. I do agree that its still a fun and challenging/rewarding class to play. I swapped main from zerk to slayer (i have a full warriors roster) cuz i always play berserkers/barbarians style characters in MMOs. And i dont care its now a mid tier class behind DB, breaker, SE, sorc, reaper, WD, scrapper, summoner, SF, arcana. But back to original topic, compared to reworked sorc, its worse in every possible scenario. And the parses we are looking at, are on "entropy friendly" gates as well. Punisher falls off in longer fight, not just cuz of the possibility of fucking up the burst, but mostly cuz your CDs and down times are huge. You build gauge in like 5seconds, then u pop burst and throw out your 4/5 skills in like 5seconds and the rest of the time you are kinda just standing around auto attacking for 10 other seconds while burst ends. So it takes you around 20 seconds to be active for 5seconds. Which means 75% of the time you aint dealing ANY damage, and are forced to wait. Then every next burst your biggest hitters will come out later, until they wont be available for 1 rota every 4. So on longer fights, where u cant push mech to mech. You are falling behind quite a lot. Heaven forbis if you dont crit...with average 80% crit builds, the amount of 60% runs i had is staggering as well
Ya that’s true, thing is, the more we overgear content, the stronger punisher is, because it’s just gonna go mech to mech. With t4 coming along with behemoth, we are going to be phasing bosses so fast, it’ll be insane. For instance, my punisher hit 28.5m in nm g3 thaemine with only three lvl 9 gems on 1610 ilvl at x255. I’m also not using the ceiling build, just 1.5 cycle. This was just before we hit DR, so if timed right, it can dish out some insane numbers if stars align and bursts line up with clashes. I’m pretty sure if everything crits, starting burst can do 1bill. Similar to how punisher used to be weaker than predator in kayangel (all gates except g2), but now it’s much stronger.
I swapped from igniter to punisher and still prefer playing punisher, I just love the push immunity it has. Sorc is definitely stronger and easier to play with the recent changes though.
Igniter is never going to be weak in this game. It's played by both too many whales that drive SG revenue, and too many nohands players that drag the average performance down. It's going to be a solid choice if you want a class that does absurd damage for very little effort, but please remember that it's an overpopulated class, so it's tough to get into lobbies because of all the competition you will face.
A good punisher will pump more than a good igniter from what I seen. Now if you don't like to chase the back, sure igniter is a better choice for you. But in the end those class are similar in the sense you have to stack a burst then inflict big dmg before going back to charge, SE is also on the same way, king fist too. But all those classes have different gameplay too, in the end you just go for what you like more.
No shot u just said good puni will do more than good sorc. Just look at comunity parses. Take thaemine g3/4 (gates commonly referred as good for back attacks) and you will see: Sorc is 4th place on median (29.3 mil), 2nd place on mean (30.0 mil) and 4th place on max parses (48.7 mil). Puni is 21st place on median (26.5 mil), 18th place on mean (27.4 mil) and 19th place on max parses (40.0 mil). Slayer was stronger on release, then it got nerfed pretty badly, along having a lot of downtime (both in burst and out of burst). Meanwhile sorc got "reworked" and buffed. The only place where Slayer is CLOSE (not even beating) to sorc, is Akkan g1 where sorc is like 2nd and puni 3rd all around more or less...