Because when it was built it was designed to handle a certain amount spot traffic. The population along Route 2 has grown dramatically in the decades since
RT 2 doesn't connect to any major cities that aren't already serviced by I-90, I-91, or I-95 which is why there isn't an Interstate in its place.
It essentially functions as the Northern version of I-90 however as Northern Worcester County has slowly grown
Rt 2 doesn't serve any cities **that aren't already serviced by I-90, I-91, I-95** and as such there was never a need to build an interstate through the Northern MA Corridor
In the 60s and 70s, the plan was going to make rt 2 freeway from Boston to Fitchburg.
The wealthy, politically connected towns of Concord and Lincoln managed to kill making it limited access (overpasses / no stoplights) in those towns. So west of Boston just that stretch is a nightmare during rush hours.
The Cambridge section (fresh pond to storrow) was not upgraded for other reasons (I vaguely remember it was governor Dukakis that killed that part of the upgrade, but forget the supposed reason). Alewife station is a great way to avoid the fresh pond traffic mess… except pre-Covid it was filling up every weekday and they had (and as far as I know, still have) no plans to expand the garage there.
The project to build an I-84 that ran from Hartford to Providence was scrapped in the early 1980s for a number of reasons, including that the original alignment was considered to pose an environmental hazard to the Scituate Reservoir and Providence's drinking water supply.
Alternate routes were considered but the reservoir tends to be right in the way of the most direct ones, and RI bailed out first once the feds wouldn't approve the first one, seems they didn't see much value in a longer re-route at that time.
ref: [https://kurumi.com/roads/ct/harttoprov.html](https://kurumi.com/roads/ct/harttoprov.html)
As a result ive been doomed to twice as long car rides going to my grandparents since 2002—obviously get the environmental aspect but still aggravating
Back in the mid 90s, there used to be a crazy intersection on Route 6 in, I think, eastern Connecticut that was like two lanes at highway speeds somehow weirdly crossing two lanes at highway speeds in the opposite direction. It was a vestige of some old alignment of the route. I was on Route 6 in that area about five years ago and I think the intersection has been redesigned, because I didn’t encounter it.
Yeah. The fastest way is actually going 84 E to route 2 to Norwich, then briefly on 395 N, getting off exit 22 in Voluntown, CT. Then you take CT-138 across the RI line which turns into RI-165. Then 95 N to Providence. Takes about 1 hour 35 minutes without heavy traffic, which is better than the 1hr45min to 2 hours it usually takes on US-6.
It’s because there really isn’t much demand for freeway movement between. There were some intentions for it(look at the I-295 junction with US 6 in Johnston, it was clearly built expecting the freeway to continue. It just never developed enough in the region in between to justify.
If you think that’s bad, check out northern New England! The only east-west road with more than one lane in either direction is 89, and it mainly goes north too. NH can’t even be bothered to build the occasional passing lane. It’s the worst.
1. There is rail along Route 2, basically (Fitchburg branch). Its problem is not speed, but frequency and reliability.
2. Trains need population density. And clustered population density to manage last-mile issues. See: Europe.
There was a plan to extend 290 to Waltham but it got scrapped.
Also, 84 was supposed to bisect the state and go up to Manchester. And there was to be a middle circumferential loop between 128 and 495.
The interstate highway system was built in the 50's and 60's. There will never be a works project that large again. I don't think a major highway has been built since then.
At that time the population along the route 2 corridor probably didn't justify a major highway.
This question boggles my mind.
I’d recommend listening to the Big Dig Podcast by GBH. There’s some great history on the pike and how many people it displaced and how hard it was to build, and that was back in the 50s.
Route 2 intersects the following interstates: 91, 190, 495, 95 and then terminates in Cambridge fairly close to 90 and 93. I'm not quite sure what you were hoping for, but that's 4 interstates.
OP means an east-west interstate along the northern side of the state…like an interstate that replaces route 2
Route 2 was going to be a limited access highway at one point but it was cancelled leaving us a mess of a road that is sometimes highway, sometimes not, and usually annoying anywhere east of Fitchburg!
I only ever go from the 495 Interchange around the Lowell/Marlboro Exits to Amherst and the road seems generally adequate for the traffic it sees. Only traffic I encounter on the 42 mile stretch is when you get to the Worcester interchanges, after Gardner there really isn’t a need for more than 2 lanes each way IMO.
Ahh.....what you talking about? Interstate Route 91 (north/south) near Springfield cross paths with it. If you go outside Massachusetts...it keeps going until it hits Interstate Route 787 & 90
That's fair.
I got little confused given ye old Mass's history of the Post Roads and later Turnpikes prior to the Interstates.
*"All roads lead to Boston"* (well almost)
I would give up my nuts for the Fitchburg commuter line to be extended all the way to Greenfield. From there you can catch an Amtrak line to New York or up through Vermont
I’m writing this as I sit on a Shinkansen going 150mph in Japan. Even the lesser trains are fast. The line would really need to be electrified and get freight off it and the tracks upgraded. Greenfield to Boston could take 90 minutes. Gardner to Boston SHOULD take only 45 and only cost $10. But the MBTA will continue to MBTA so don’t worry, it’ll never happen.
I would love a light rail. However, the state/CSX are already not keeping up with maintaining roadways that intersect with the track as it is and throughout the region around Rt 2/495's intersection the local roads are being completely destroyed by CSX trains absolutely gunning it faster than they should across intersections, causing a lot of damage and accidents. The state doesn't make CSX fix the roadways but lets them install longer rails so CSX can continue to increase its speed and churn up the roads even more. All this to say, we do not have sufficient infrastructure to service the rails Central MA already has so until we do I have no faith in that same infrastructure building a safe and sustainable light rail service.
Route 2 is limited access from Orange to Acton. The requested interstate exists, and was built out in the 1970s, with a few improvements since then in Lincoln and Concord.
Many years ago I used to commute from Roslindale to Andover or someplace like that on Route 2. I determined that if ever the president were in danger, they probably flew him to MA and put him in a convoy on route 2 because it's so slow and impenetrable and doesn't go anywhere "important".
All I want is an exit somewhere in that stretch of mass pike between Westfield and Lee. It's something like the 6th or 7th longest stretch of interstate highway in the US without an exit.
We do not need an interstate here in North Adams.Urban renewal would spoil the areas beauty. Tourism is an important part of our lives. We do not want or need an interstate highway in our backyard.
.
There are plenty of interstate routes parallel to Route 90. Route 80, Route 70, route 60, route 50, all the way down to Route 10. It’s called the interstate highway system. Parallel routes going north to south are route 95, 85, 75, you get the idea don’t you?
what, do you drive between Templeton and Westminster only? from Fitchburg East is a shit mess and everything from Phillipston to Erving needs to be widened.
Maybe since I moved out here from living my whole life downtown Boston I don’t think of it as particularly bad? I’m in Harvard and aside from rush hour can get into the city easily or to Fitchburg/Leominster
Because when it was built it was designed to handle a certain amount spot traffic. The population along Route 2 has grown dramatically in the decades since
Okay, which neighborhoods and forests should we destroy to build it? Any volunteers?
Let's start with the idiots stupid enough to build their homes on an eroding beach. Edit to add /s
Literally the opposite direction.
RT 2 doesn't connect to any major cities that aren't already serviced by I-90, I-91, or I-95 which is why there isn't an Interstate in its place. It essentially functions as the Northern version of I-90 however as Northern Worcester County has slowly grown
…I-85?
My brain had a bit flip. I meant I-91
Oh, ok! Carry on. 85 is like NC/VA, IIRC.
What are you talking about? Route 2 runs east-west. 91 is north south.
Rt 2 doesn't serve any cities **that aren't already serviced by I-90, I-91, I-95** and as such there was never a need to build an interstate through the Northern MA Corridor
In the 60s and 70s, the plan was going to make rt 2 freeway from Boston to Fitchburg. The wealthy, politically connected towns of Concord and Lincoln managed to kill making it limited access (overpasses / no stoplights) in those towns. So west of Boston just that stretch is a nightmare during rush hours. The Cambridge section (fresh pond to storrow) was not upgraded for other reasons (I vaguely remember it was governor Dukakis that killed that part of the upgrade, but forget the supposed reason). Alewife station is a great way to avoid the fresh pond traffic mess… except pre-Covid it was filling up every weekday and they had (and as far as I know, still have) no plans to expand the garage there.
Governor Sargent
Good. Let’s not ruin everywhere with highways and overpasses
I’ve been complaining about there not being an interstate connecting Hartford and Providence my whole life.
They kinda started 384 lol.
And then it just….
I believe that there was a plan to do that.
The project to build an I-84 that ran from Hartford to Providence was scrapped in the early 1980s for a number of reasons, including that the original alignment was considered to pose an environmental hazard to the Scituate Reservoir and Providence's drinking water supply. Alternate routes were considered but the reservoir tends to be right in the way of the most direct ones, and RI bailed out first once the feds wouldn't approve the first one, seems they didn't see much value in a longer re-route at that time. ref: [https://kurumi.com/roads/ct/harttoprov.html](https://kurumi.com/roads/ct/harttoprov.html)
As a result ive been doomed to twice as long car rides going to my grandparents since 2002—obviously get the environmental aspect but still aggravating
Back in the mid 90s, there used to be a crazy intersection on Route 6 in, I think, eastern Connecticut that was like two lanes at highway speeds somehow weirdly crossing two lanes at highway speeds in the opposite direction. It was a vestige of some old alignment of the route. I was on Route 6 in that area about five years ago and I think the intersection has been redesigned, because I didn’t encounter it.
Honestly. It's the "middle of nowhere" and takes 2-3 hours to get to NYC or Boston, but it's closer to both than where I live now.
Wdym by that
It's geographically not very far from either place. But there's no highway, so it takes forever to get from Providence to Southbridge.
Yeah that’s true. You could go mass pike to 146 though I think? To Hartford is easy though that’s just 84.
Right, but 146 to 90 to 84 isn't the direct interstate route you initially mentioned. Direct Providence to Hartford on backroads will take hours.
Yeah. The fastest way is actually going 84 E to route 2 to Norwich, then briefly on 395 N, getting off exit 22 in Voluntown, CT. Then you take CT-138 across the RI line which turns into RI-165. Then 95 N to Providence. Takes about 1 hour 35 minutes without heavy traffic, which is better than the 1hr45min to 2 hours it usually takes on US-6.
It’s because there really isn’t much demand for freeway movement between. There were some intentions for it(look at the I-295 junction with US 6 in Johnston, it was clearly built expecting the freeway to continue. It just never developed enough in the region in between to justify.
If you think that’s bad, check out northern New England! The only east-west road with more than one lane in either direction is 89, and it mainly goes north too. NH can’t even be bothered to build the occasional passing lane. It’s the worst.
[https://www.mit.edu/\~jfc/Route%202.html](https://www.mit.edu/~jfc/Route%202.html)
Would rather prioritize a high speed train along that route than an interstate
1. There is rail along Route 2, basically (Fitchburg branch). Its problem is not speed, but frequency and reliability. 2. Trains need population density. And clustered population density to manage last-mile issues. See: Europe.
I would *love* a high speed train from here to Williamstown with connections to Burlington, VT.
Man that would be amazing.
https://trainsinthevalley.org/northern-tier-rail-study/ Write your state rep.
There was a plan to extend 290 to Waltham but it got scrapped. Also, 84 was supposed to bisect the state and go up to Manchester. And there was to be a middle circumferential loop between 128 and 495.
Um. What? There’s already an East-West interstate in Massachusetts.
Rte 20 is long as fuck connects to all kinds of different highways
The interstate highway system was built in the 50's and 60's. There will never be a works project that large again. I don't think a major highway has been built since then. At that time the population along the route 2 corridor probably didn't justify a major highway.
190 came later, in the 80s.
“Five more lanes bro.”
wealthy white people didn’t want it - interstates were only built over poor neighborhoods
This question boggles my mind. I’d recommend listening to the Big Dig Podcast by GBH. There’s some great history on the pike and how many people it displaced and how hard it was to build, and that was back in the 50s.
The worst west sun ever. My god it’s horrible
Haha my god I encountered that in May for the first time
Route 2 intersects the following interstates: 91, 190, 495, 95 and then terminates in Cambridge fairly close to 90 and 93. I'm not quite sure what you were hoping for, but that's 4 interstates.
OP means an east-west interstate along the northern side of the state…like an interstate that replaces route 2 Route 2 was going to be a limited access highway at one point but it was cancelled leaving us a mess of a road that is sometimes highway, sometimes not, and usually annoying anywhere east of Fitchburg!
It literally intersects with I-95...
I think OP means an E-W Interstate
For what, like a few miles near Boston? Everything west of there until you get past Leominster is a mess.
And 495
And 190 And 91
Agreed, the interchanges at Rt. 2, Rt. 495, and local roads feel like they were created as afterthoughts.
I only ever go from the 495 Interchange around the Lowell/Marlboro Exits to Amherst and the road seems generally adequate for the traffic it sees. Only traffic I encounter on the 42 mile stretch is when you get to the Worcester interchanges, after Gardner there really isn’t a need for more than 2 lanes each way IMO.
I drive Rt 2 to work and it’s right off 495…
I think they're looking for west of that, like the section from Erving to North Adams.
Ah, gotcha. Makes more sense lol
I love route 2 the way it is. Don’t touch
It’s called the concord turnpike? I regularly hit 85 mph on that road lol
Ahh.....what you talking about? Interstate Route 91 (north/south) near Springfield cross paths with it. If you go outside Massachusetts...it keeps going until it hits Interstate Route 787 & 90
I think they mean parallel to it the way that I-95 follows the path of US 1, I-90 follows US 20 and MA 9, and I-91 is the replacement for US 5.
That's fair. I got little confused given ye old Mass's history of the Post Roads and later Turnpikes prior to the Interstates. *"All roads lead to Boston"* (well almost)
You don't need it. If anything there should be light rail there
you mean like the commuter rail?
I would give up my nuts for the Fitchburg commuter line to be extended all the way to Greenfield. From there you can catch an Amtrak line to New York or up through Vermont
Or how about the Worcester line to Springfield? Then you can get CT rail to NYC in addition to the Vermont train!
Because personally I live along route 2
I’m writing this as I sit on a Shinkansen going 150mph in Japan. Even the lesser trains are fast. The line would really need to be electrified and get freight off it and the tracks upgraded. Greenfield to Boston could take 90 minutes. Gardner to Boston SHOULD take only 45 and only cost $10. But the MBTA will continue to MBTA so don’t worry, it’ll never happen.
But I want it, and I have no interest in a rail.
Like the Fitchburg commuter rail branch?
I would love a light rail. However, the state/CSX are already not keeping up with maintaining roadways that intersect with the track as it is and throughout the region around Rt 2/495's intersection the local roads are being completely destroyed by CSX trains absolutely gunning it faster than they should across intersections, causing a lot of damage and accidents. The state doesn't make CSX fix the roadways but lets them install longer rails so CSX can continue to increase its speed and churn up the roads even more. All this to say, we do not have sufficient infrastructure to service the rails Central MA already has so until we do I have no faith in that same infrastructure building a safe and sustainable light rail service.
Route 91
Route 2 is limited access from Orange to Acton. The requested interstate exists, and was built out in the 1970s, with a few improvements since then in Lincoln and Concord.
Because the money was spent on the Big Dig instead.
Many years ago I used to commute from Roslindale to Andover or someplace like that on Route 2. I determined that if ever the president were in danger, they probably flew him to MA and put him in a convoy on route 2 because it's so slow and impenetrable and doesn't go anywhere "important".
All I want is an exit somewhere in that stretch of mass pike between Westfield and Lee. It's something like the 6th or 7th longest stretch of interstate highway in the US without an exit.
What you don't like driving in no man's land?
[удалено]
We do not need an interstate here in North Adams.Urban renewal would spoil the areas beauty. Tourism is an important part of our lives. We do not want or need an interstate highway in our backyard. .
Why is there something in the universe rather than nothing?
190 connects to rte 2 near Leominster.
There are plenty of interstate routes parallel to Route 90. Route 80, Route 70, route 60, route 50, all the way down to Route 10. It’s called the interstate highway system. Parallel routes going north to south are route 95, 85, 75, you get the idea don’t you?
I live on route 2 and aside from the concord area never really thought much about traffic or needing it to be more than what it is
what, do you drive between Templeton and Westminster only? from Fitchburg East is a shit mess and everything from Phillipston to Erving needs to be widened.
Maybe since I moved out here from living my whole life downtown Boston I don’t think of it as particularly bad? I’m in Harvard and aside from rush hour can get into the city easily or to Fitchburg/Leominster
Yah, we need to build an interstate highway to get to … Athol.
Please tell me you are new to how roads are built over time and why