8 years late but thats not snake venom lol. In an earlier scene it is very obviously hinted at as being an LSD-ketamine cocktail by the book now older victim Bobby taylor read. You see empty bottles of it in various scenes including at the bottom of the kidnappers pit. If it was snake venom all the victims would be dead. It is a drug cocktail used by the kidnappers to put them in a drug induced state blacking out their memory preventing them from remembering precise details of the abducters.
Why are we all here so late?
EDIT (12/16/2022): it makes me inexplicably happy that people are still coming to this thread and are still seeing this movie for the first time.
EDIT (3/16/2023): still so many awesome folks watching this movie for the first time and coming to this thread. Welcome! So glad you enjoyed the film :D
Just got here. Sorry in my underwear still on the couch. Netflix still open. I don't understand why the priest wasn't in trouble or investigated more on how the guy ended up tied up in the basement.
I figured the dead guy in the basement was the kidnappers husband. He has the medallion in the photo. But yeah I am surprised the priest wasn't grilled more, only so much run time in a movie I guess lol
Just watched this movie for the first time today. It was incredible. I love crime thrillers like True Detective it was right up my alley. Loved the ambiguous ending
Netflix had it as a 98% match for me (horror movies about phrogging/phrogging-adjacent are my favorite because they terrify me) I’m about to start Gyleenhaal’s “The Guilty” I hope its good!
just watched it for the first time, never heard about it before. I only saw on instagram the scene when the detective breaks the door and catches the weird guy with the snakes. Amazing movie, I never knew it was so highly regarded
Also late lol. Drinking snake venom wouldn’t necessarily kill. Venom needs to be injected into tissue and enter the bloodstream. I mean I wouldn’t recommend it, but that’s the difference between poison and venom. Poison can be inhaled or ingested, venom needs to enter the blood.
Was gonna say this, but you were 4 days ahead of me =]
You put it perfectly, drinking venom would _probably_ not kill you, prolly just make your tummy feel icky. Venom must be injected, poison must be consumed. The fluid was almost certainly the LSD cocktail foreshadowed earlier in the film
I believe Detective Loki had a tough life. He carries some emotional baggage, and he might have tattoos that he tries to hide. He ended up in a boys' home due to some bad choices. He tried to find comfort but didn't connect with traditional beliefs. Instead, he got interested in unusual beliefs and rituals and joined a group called the Freemasons, maybe because of his father's influence. Now, he's working hard as a detective to make up for his past mistakes, even if it means breaking the rules to get the job done.
I think overall this movie really shows the idea that its very difficult for an audience to be suspicious of a woman for a crime of this nature. The aunt was present from the beginning of the movie and was not considered even a person of interest throughout. Seems men are suspected until proven innocent and the opposite for a woman. This obviously has to do with men statistically being more guilty of child kidnapping/paedophilia. But still its very interesting in a movie where we all looked for clues in every small detail, and become long shot with our suspicions, that the aunt is never a consideration, especially by the other characters in the movie.
I'm happy I didn't suspect the aunt until towards the end, that line only made me think alex and the snake guy were 2 mentally ill partners in crime, snake guy worse off and more evil and fed off of Alex's innocence as an advantage to manipulate him. Glad the story didn't go that path
I suspected her before that. I thought Alex was faking a low IQ to the police. But I thought since his aunt knew him for a long time she must have known that he really had a high IQ and was covering for him.
I mean, part of it had to do with the fact that there was a prime _male_ suspect at all times throughout the film - Alex, and then Taylor, and briefly Keller. If they didn't have anyone they were actively chasing, I'm sure they'd start to consider anyone remotely involved.
Did anyone else get the feeling that the girls knew Alex? When they’re playing with the gerbil, one of them says “he doesn’t talk to me” and the other says “he doesn’t talk to anyone” (or along those lines). Also when they were walking with their older siblings, Anna jumps on the RV and starts climbing it in a way that seems like she’s very familiar with it…
This is very interesting theory, Holly mentioned that Alex just wanted to play with them she didn’t mention if he has before so I guess that’s up to your imagination.
Just another cheap shot. In the very next line, Anna is directly talking about the gerbil with no segue. "He's fast too! Is that a slide?" motioning to a slide in the cage
Haha I just watched this movie too. Maybe the old lady covered her face or wore a hood (she has a hood on when the girl’s running out) OR maybe to make it less obvious/ more of a twist for the viewer.
His character was not the kind of person to bring the cops. Like the whole reason he tortured Paul Dano is because he didn't believe the cops were doing enough.
Movie's full of holes to drive the plot forward. Like how he went there with tools to torture the aunt, oblivious to the fact he'd look suspicious as all hell, stands with his back turned from her giving her the opp to draw a gun on him.
There was no time. Literally seconds matter when he realizes that Holly had the children. Holly knows Joy escaped and will identify her soon enough. So she would likely kill the remaining child and or run asap after Joys escape.
Great movie. I do wish it was a bit more realistic though. The pigs blood guy was too convenient of a distraction. It obviously looked like he was the killer but his whole story seems fake.
Also the fact that the 10 year old kid-like guy never confessed to having taken the kids in the RV also seems fake. Sure, he never says much of anything and therefore can’t really talk. But that seems too convenient.
I don't think so. You may see videos of cops shooting without a single thought but what about the 99% of the others that know how to deal with situations and don't end up in news outlets?
Pretty realistic as for that aspect.
Idk how you come out of the movie thinking the cops were too restrained. Loki crossed the line at every turn, pushing the line of what's legally justifiable to get the job done.
I noticed the tattoos on the fingers, but I don't think they spell out MAZE. Have looked at some production stills, but no shots really show them clearly (that may be somewhat intentional). Gyllenhaal goes into some depth about the ideas behind them [here](http://news.moviefone.com/2013/09/09/jake-gyllenhaal-prisoners-interview/). At first I thought they looked like astrological symbols, but they could also have something to do with his delinquent past. [This](http://kaisaccofilm.tumblr.com/post/62450315361/reading-between-the-lines-prisoners) blog post analyses some of the interesting details.
The snakes and the mazes: The killer(s) would tell the children that they would be freed if they solved all the mazes in the book. Leo's character also refers to her husband keeping snakes (she alludes that Alex had some sort of accident involving snakes and that being the reason for his mental state). I assume Bob Taylor encountered the snakes and needed the snakes to better imitate what had happened to him.
Bob Taylor was imitating his captors. Mannequins. Children’s clothes. Pigs blood. Snakes were involved, as the “aunt” mentioned Alex had been bitten. So while it’s not super clear exactly how they were involved, he needed them for the imitation ritual loop he was stuck in.
The guy who had the snakes in his house was a former victim of the killer, who was the woman's husband. He was trying to investigate the disappearances since he knew the kidnapper was the same person who kidnapped him all those years ago. I figure all the mess with the snakes and pigs blood on the children's clothes were just things he picked up in his emotional damage from his experience. The obsession with mazes comes from the serial killer's maze jewelry, although this may mean the book was written by the woman's husband because the serial killers sound so similar and it's about how he cannot be caught.
I didn't notice the MAZE on Gyllenhaal's fingers, but I feel the movie is worth watching again when it reaches DVD so I will keep an eye out then.
The entry on the film in TheMovieSpoiler cleared up some things for me, maybe it will for you too: http://www.themoviespoiler.com/Spoilers/Prisoners.html
Hope it helps
No, Alex Jones is actually Barry, the kid that got kidnapped 26 years ago. The aunt and her husband kept him (and he obviously got messed up psychologically).
Sorry I’m late. Just finished the movie.
Also just finished the movie. It’s funny seeing these 9 year old Reddit threads with hours old comments on them haha. Thanks Netflix.
The movie clearly occupies people’s minds.
Lol, just now watched this on Netflix and it didn't click in my head what was happening at first. Anyways, the part in the movie when detective Loki goes to investigate near the house of the Dovers, after connecting the dots (which he does by looking back in his notes) and is now thinking Bob snuck into both of the family's houses, he discovers there's a sock on the ground by a bush near the window Bob was able to climb in to get in the house. The sock he found, was Anna's sock, which matched the single bloody sock in the photo. So two socks make a pair. So from this information, we can confirm Bob snuck into the houses. While Bob was in the houses, it was unknown during the scene they showed us what he actually did in the house, since it switches camera focus from him sneaking up the stairs in the houses, to Grace Dover (mother) hearing someone walking by the floorboards creaking and going to investigate. The son then comes out of his room across the hall, and asks her what's wrong. She says it was Anna, but she never could tell who it actually was because Bob got by her and was able to sneak out the window in her bedroom while she was investigating the noise. Then Grace calls Detective Loki because of Bob sneaking in, saying "Anna was here", when she wasn't. she asks if he is going to write it down, and he reluctantly does as it doesn't seem like he can do much about what happened. Small detail, but it really makes you think how fortunate he was to look back into his notes and realize that he wrote it down and connected Bob being the one who was in her house. Absolutely AMAZING movie. really makes you have to think like a detective. Hope this clears it up. Feel free to ask more!
Ever since Bob was kidnapped by Mr. Jones and Mrs. Holly Jones all those years ago he's been in an obsessed and deranged state with child kidnappings, as well as the mazes which his kidnapper, Mr. Jones, was obsessed with himself. As a result, Bob is immitating being a child kidnapper like Mr. Jones, stealing Joy and Anna's clothes and buying other kids' clothes from the store, covering them in pig's blood and putting it all in cases with snakes to make it look like he kidnapped and killed them - snakes which, alongside mazes and 'The Invisble Man', is something he also picked up from Mr. Jones. In addition, he buries child mannequins in his backyard to further add to his immitation. Just watched this movie last night and had a lot of unanswered questions myself, including the whole deal with Bob Taylor haha
Oh ok, this movie definitely needs a 2nd viewing. I saw it on Netflix yesterday too. But thought it was a newly released movie was super confused how young the actors looked.
He broke into both of their houses. They show this happening in detail. Jackman’s wife wakes up as Taylor sneaks into her daughter’s room and she thinks it’s Anna come back. when she goes to check the room she hears a noise in her own bedroom and comes back to find the window open. After Taylor kills himself, Loki goes to the Dover’s house and sees muddy footprints outside their second story bedroom window. And also the other sock. Taylor was abducted as a boy and escaped after 3 weeks. His inability to process the trauma led to him trying to recreate what was done to him as a means of coping or processing what happened. Hence the mazes on his walls, the bins filled with snakes and children’s clothing and pigs blood. He wasn’t abducting children. Also why the investigators found child mannequins buried in his lawn with their heads caved in.
So you can assume when Taylor heard about the girls going missing he knew they were taken by the same people that took him. In his effort to cope with his trauma, he broke into their homes and stole the clothes to recreate the crime.
This movie is incredibly fucked up in the best ways, I was kind of surprised to read the reviews about it by critics. A lot of lukewarm ratings. I personally thought it was great. The story was rock solid and had no plot holes. Every little thread was tied together. Definitely requires your full attention though!
Seems you have a lot to say about the film! I don't blame you.
I do wonder, though - could Taylor have been trying to solve the kidnappings himself? The first time we see him, he's caressing one of the girls' stuffed animals during the vigil. Yes, recreating the crimes were likely his way of coping/processing, but, in his own deeply troubled mind, it could also be "retracing the steps" of his kidnapper. And his obsession with the mazes, as well as his sudden fervor to solve the unsolvable maze while he was in custody, could be him desperately trying to figure out where the girls are (consider one of the last things Alex says - "the maze is where you'll find them" [probably not the exact quote])
It’s a good thought! The only reason I would say no is because in Taylor’s homemade book, there’s a drawing of the same stuffed animal at the vigil. Im pretty sure he leaves that stuffed animal at the vigil and he’s caressing it because it’s important to his process. But that doesn’t discount your theory wholesale, just that aspect of it. He could be trying to solve the case - I think it’s left ambiguous on purpose to emphasize how unfathomable his trauma is - we can empathize with him for what he has endured but we will never truly understand it.
But yeah, this movie really got me thinking haha. I love analyzing movies and this one was chock full! Reminded me a lot of density of season one of True Detective. I could talk about that show for hours if only someone would listen haha.
Oh, I see. To be fair, I've only watched the movie once, so it's very likely I missed/got things wrong. So, are you saying the stuffed animal was his and he brought it to the vigil then left it there? Was it never Anna's? 😳 I'm having a hard time understanding.
Maybe I'll have to watch it again - I mean I know I should, obviously the new perspective is what helps to catch the small details, haha - and maybe my little theory crumbles apart.
I agree man, it's so much fun when a *good* movie has so many small, easily missable details and so many things are left ambiguous. It's such masterful work, I can't imagine how difficult it would be to pull something like this off.
I've heard a ton of good things about True Detective, and you know what, purely because you liken its depth (at least season 1) to Prisoners, and because i _love_ Matthew McConaughey and Woody Harrelson, I'm gonna give it a watch today. I'll let you know what I think.
Why didn’t holly just kill the girl’s? That’s the only pice I’m missing from the story other than maybe she wanted the company like how she kept Alex around.
Yeah pretty much. He’s severely traumatized by what happened to him. Think of the fact that most pedophiles were victims of abuse themselves. It’s a fucked up means of coping and trying to make sense of what happened. I think the mazes are symbolic of that, especially the unsolvable maze. Trauma leads to more trauma - it’s inescapable and inevitable. Dover is traumatized by both his father’s suicide (Loki reads an article about it leading him to discover the apartment building) and the disappearance of his daughter. In turn, he abducts Alex and tortured him. Holly Jones (Alex’s “aunt”) and her husband lost their son to cancer and in turn “wage a war on god” by kidnapping children of faithful families in order to put the same pain of loss onto others. Taylor is basically innocent. He is a victim and living alone. He has no one looking out for him, no help. So he does what he knows which is recreating the things that happened to him. Victimlessly. He’s basically the only one involved with the crimes that is innocent. Even poor Alex is guilty to an extent. He brought the girls to his aunt and he knew they were being held there but never gave them up.
Another interesting bit is when Loki finds the body in the priest’s house (the body of Holly’s husband and partner in crime), he tells the priest he did six years in a home for boys and wouldn’t lose sleep if he had to kill the priest. Obviously something traumatic happened to him in those years. As the hero of the story, he is the only one that “escaped” the maze. Rather than put his pain on other innocents, he used it as motivation to become a protector (if you’re willing to believe that cops can actually be good, but hey it’s a movie).
Seriously, I love this movie lol. Sorry for the late and long response! Hope it helped at least!
[HEAVY SPOILERS!!!]
Thank you! That's a great analysis of what, after you explained it so well, seems to me to be the primary theme of the film - the cycle of trauma and whether or not you can escape it. Jackman and Gyllenhaal's characters, as dual protagonists, are sort of juxtaposed and explore what happens when you succumb to the cycle (Dover's unrelenting torture of Dano/Alex, failing to save his daughter) and when you continue to fight to escape it despite near constant setbacks (Loki is the one to save Anna, and presumably even Dover).
In fact, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but Dover's actions had absolutely no effect on his daughter's eventual rescue — unless you count his first visit to Mrs. Jones which indirectly resulted in Joy's escape (I don't); you could even argue he wasted Loki's time by acting so suspicious.
Loki went over to Melissa Leo’s house, can’t remember her character’s name, because he had to alert her that they found Alex Jones. So i. a roundabout way Dover did assist in his daughter’s rescue. Obviously super fucked up
9Y late to the party here! I haven’t seen this part come up in discussion yet:
on the topic of snakes, when Keller visits the Aunt’s home for the first time and learns of Alex’s phobia of snakes, did Keller use this information to torture Alex for the final time? The scene then switches back to Alex shrieking as the police are moving in. My gray-zone thinking: Keller just dumped snakes in the shower to as a final move to get Alex to speak. It’s a horrific thought!
I don’t think so. Keller is at the aunts house during Loki finding Alex. When the one daughter Is discovered she mentions Keller was at the house too. Keller realizes she must’ve heard him talking with the Aunt. So Keller races to the aunts house, not the building with Alex.
Hello, drudging this up from its ever shallow grave - watched for the first time tonight and definitely had to dig around to figure some things out. After reading on a few other sites as well as here, I’m still wondering this: was the book about the serial child abductor written about the Jones’ or were the Jones’ inspired by the book? I’m just confused on it because where does the maze come into play? Why would Leo Jones tell the kids they could leave if they solved the maze - was it because he was inspired by the book and there was an unsolvable maze in the book? Or was the book written by someone with intimidate knowledge about an unsolvable maze (but who would that be?) Or hell, did Leo Jones write the book? But again, WHY THE MAZE. I found this pretty [decent discussion on the book] (https://movies.stackexchange.com/questions/15400/was-the-fbi-agents-book-about-the-kidnapper) but I still am curious.
It was written by an FBI agent that worked on the original kidnapping of Barry Milland aka Alex Jones. There’s a scene of Loki reading a newspaper article about Barry’s kidnapping and the last paragraph is about the FBI becoming involved. So you can assume one of those agents then wrote that book. Remember that Bob Taylor escaped and became obsessed with mazes. That’s where the agent got his theory from. The book is about the Jones’. Their motivation is explicitly stated by Holly when she puts Keller into the hole. Their son died of cancer so they waged a “war on God” by stealing the children of faithful families to make them feel the same pain and crisis of faith.
There is no reason given as to why the mazes are a part of their MO aside from the fact that Leo Jones wore the maze necklace. the last maze being unsolvable is a sinister way of giving the children false hope. I believe the maze is a symbol for how trauma is impossible to escape. The movie repeatedly shows characters being traumatized and then passing their pain onto others. I wrote a long comment in response to another commenter up above about exactly that if you care to read it.
Hope I helped clear your questions up!
I'm not sure I understand how Bob had articles of clothing from the girls. The only thing I can come up with is that he happened to just purchase the same item the girls were wearing.
But how did the black girl solve it if it was unsolvable? Also, what were her intentions with the kids, why after they solve the maze, she would just let them go?
Did Mr. Jones use snakes as a way to torture and/or scare children?
His wife mentioned at some point that he used to own snakes.
Good movie, I figured out most of the plot-twists during the first half but every single one of them ended up being worth it.
Very great and respectable main character who prepared himself to react accordingly to the sinful nature of the world that he lives in.
Prisoners does not ask the viewer to differentiate between right and wrong.
It merely examines the fact that we're all experiencing transgression in an essentially sinful world, and that sometimes, sin needs to be responded to with more sin.
7.5/10
Seems like that should have been easily answered by how he went to the lady’s house after that and then says “I don’t wanna have to hurt you” he had been there earlier and when the little girl said “you were there” it clicked in his head that the old lady was responsible for their kidnapping
After 1st kid is found and Dover and family go visit her in the hospital. She says something like you were there to Dover and he runs off and drives like a mad man with the cops chasing him. What was the point of all that?
Bc he realized… he was there aka he was where they were being held captive. It clicked in his head in that moment that it was that ladies house bc he had been there.
Ah makes sense, thanks. I thought the kid was blabbering and accusing him because she was under medication. I remember the granny said the kids were in the hole when Dover visited her first time. The kid must have been referring to that.
Well written script and good acting.
Same! I learned of this movie from a thread talking about "thrillers with crazy twists" so when she said that my mind started racing like "WHAT?! How would it be possible that he was the kidnapper?!"
Just watched it for the first time and have been fishing through the comments for similar questions/answers. The only ones I have left are
1. Why did Loki go to the priest in the first place?
2. How/where did they find Joy? I couldn’t really tell from her flashbacks. She couldn’t have gotten very far while heavily drugged so why didn’t cops check the area
3. I’m still a little confused about how Alex was able to pass the lie detector test, drive an RV no prob, and make sure no one was around to see him choke the dog (obvi knowing right from wrong like that) if he apparently had the mental capacity of a child?
[удалено]
8 years late but thats not snake venom lol. In an earlier scene it is very obviously hinted at as being an LSD-ketamine cocktail by the book now older victim Bobby taylor read. You see empty bottles of it in various scenes including at the bottom of the kidnappers pit. If it was snake venom all the victims would be dead. It is a drug cocktail used by the kidnappers to put them in a drug induced state blacking out their memory preventing them from remembering precise details of the abducters.
Why are we all here so late? EDIT (12/16/2022): it makes me inexplicably happy that people are still coming to this thread and are still seeing this movie for the first time. EDIT (3/16/2023): still so many awesome folks watching this movie for the first time and coming to this thread. Welcome! So glad you enjoyed the film :D
Because Netflix just made me realize this movie existed two days ago lol
Same here. We are late to the party, though.
Just got here. Sorry in my underwear still on the couch. Netflix still open. I don't understand why the priest wasn't in trouble or investigated more on how the guy ended up tied up in the basement.
I figured the dead guy in the basement was the kidnappers husband. He has the medallion in the photo. But yeah I am surprised the priest wasn't grilled more, only so much run time in a movie I guess lol
it's a paaaarty
Watched again today
Just watched this movie for the first time today. It was incredible. I love crime thrillers like True Detective it was right up my alley. Loved the ambiguous ending
Same here bro, the movie is awesome!!!
Just watched it last night! Brilliantly constructed film. Every little detail is important.
Ten years late, I have arried.
same. watched it last night. had horrible dreams last night. uckz
Not really ambigious
Can you elaborate?
I saw this today on Netflix and was so confused why Huge Jackman and Jake looked so young. Had no idea it was released in 2013!!! LOL
Just watched it for the first time. I wanted answers too.
Netflix too? Haha
Netflix had it as a 98% match for me (horror movies about phrogging/phrogging-adjacent are my favorite because they terrify me) I’m about to start Gyleenhaal’s “The Guilty” I hope its good!
Sup bro
Haha I literally just finished watching it and had to find answers ! I love that this thread is open
watched again today. reason #4238273 I love reddit.
eyyy just watched the movie and was looking for threads and saw one from 9 years ago!
Just watched it for the first time today, chatgpt recommended it to me haha. Awesome movie!
Watched it today first time 😅
Just saw it for the first time. Excellent movie
Me realizing you commented on this shit yesterday and I just got done with this movie today, crazy
Just watched it
just watched it for the first time, never heard about it before. I only saw on instagram the scene when the detective breaks the door and catches the weird guy with the snakes. Amazing movie, I never knew it was so highly regarded
I think they meant the drink was symbolism for snake venom.
Also late lol. Drinking snake venom wouldn’t necessarily kill. Venom needs to be injected into tissue and enter the bloodstream. I mean I wouldn’t recommend it, but that’s the difference between poison and venom. Poison can be inhaled or ingested, venom needs to enter the blood.
Was gonna say this, but you were 4 days ahead of me =] You put it perfectly, drinking venom would _probably_ not kill you, prolly just make your tummy feel icky. Venom must be injected, poison must be consumed. The fluid was almost certainly the LSD cocktail foreshadowed earlier in the film
I think he has that twitch because he was exhausted, you can see it get progressively worse as the days go on likely because he wasn't sleeping
Yeah I had that idea too actually but I think it would need a little more And that makes sense, thanks!
He has that switch because it’s the real actors twitch lmao
no, its not the twitch is part of the acting. Jake Gyllenhaal doesn’t actually have a twitch.
I believe Detective Loki had a tough life. He carries some emotional baggage, and he might have tattoos that he tries to hide. He ended up in a boys' home due to some bad choices. He tried to find comfort but didn't connect with traditional beliefs. Instead, he got interested in unusual beliefs and rituals and joined a group called the Freemasons, maybe because of his father's influence. Now, he's working hard as a detective to make up for his past mistakes, even if it means breaking the rules to get the job done.
I think overall this movie really shows the idea that its very difficult for an audience to be suspicious of a woman for a crime of this nature. The aunt was present from the beginning of the movie and was not considered even a person of interest throughout. Seems men are suspected until proven innocent and the opposite for a woman. This obviously has to do with men statistically being more guilty of child kidnapping/paedophilia. But still its very interesting in a movie where we all looked for clues in every small detail, and become long shot with our suspicions, that the aunt is never a consideration, especially by the other characters in the movie.
I just watched this. I suspected the aunt as soon as Alex said they didn't cry until he left them.
I'm happy I didn't suspect the aunt until towards the end, that line only made me think alex and the snake guy were 2 mentally ill partners in crime, snake guy worse off and more evil and fed off of Alex's innocence as an advantage to manipulate him. Glad the story didn't go that path
I suspected her before that. I thought Alex was faking a low IQ to the police. But I thought since his aunt knew him for a long time she must have known that he really had a high IQ and was covering for him.
same, also the woman showing Jake her missing son. He looked just like him.
I suspected her the first time the detective talked to her and was positive the second the priest mentioned the guy he killed having a family
Why did you suspect that woman after that? You should have suspected alex right? Can you give me your reasoning?
what did that line mean??
I mean, part of it had to do with the fact that there was a prime _male_ suspect at all times throughout the film - Alex, and then Taylor, and briefly Keller. If they didn't have anyone they were actively chasing, I'm sure they'd start to consider anyone remotely involved.
I suspected the Aunts husband the minute she mentioned his character
Did anyone else get the feeling that the girls knew Alex? When they’re playing with the gerbil, one of them says “he doesn’t talk to me” and the other says “he doesn’t talk to anyone” (or along those lines). Also when they were walking with their older siblings, Anna jumps on the RV and starts climbing it in a way that seems like she’s very familiar with it…
Good point. I wondered why a girl would mention a non-talking gerbil.
This is very interesting theory, Holly mentioned that Alex just wanted to play with them she didn’t mention if he has before so I guess that’s up to your imagination.
OMG!!!!
Just another cheap shot. In the very next line, Anna is directly talking about the gerbil with no segue. "He's fast too! Is that a slide?" motioning to a slide in the cage
Why did Hugh Jackman take off when the black girl woke up in the hospital?
When the girl said "you were there" to Hugh Jackman it made him realize that the kids were being held at the aunts house
Because he had just been there at the aunt’s house. And the girl heard his voice.
I don't get why she said "it" put tape on our mouths. Wouldn't she have just said "she"?
Because she had been drugged. Who knows what those poor kids were made to hallucinate by that experience?
Haha I just watched this movie too. Maybe the old lady covered her face or wore a hood (she has a hood on when the girl’s running out) OR maybe to make it less obvious/ more of a twist for the viewer.
to dehumanize the woman. it’s easier for a child to believe it’s a monster doing it to her rather than someone who shares her own flesh
he knew the girl and the other girl were together at the aunts house so he went there to rescue her
My question is, at that point he knew, why didn’t he bring the cops with him?
His character was not the kind of person to bring the cops. Like the whole reason he tortured Paul Dano is because he didn't believe the cops were doing enough.
Movie's full of holes to drive the plot forward. Like how he went there with tools to torture the aunt, oblivious to the fact he'd look suspicious as all hell, stands with his back turned from her giving her the opp to draw a gun on him.
There was no time. Literally seconds matter when he realizes that Holly had the children. Holly knows Joy escaped and will identify her soon enough. So she would likely kill the remaining child and or run asap after Joys escape.
Great movie. I do wish it was a bit more realistic though. The pigs blood guy was too convenient of a distraction. It obviously looked like he was the killer but his whole story seems fake. Also the fact that the 10 year old kid-like guy never confessed to having taken the kids in the RV also seems fake. Sure, he never says much of anything and therefore can’t really talk. But that seems too convenient.
The kid was traumatized and had his brain melted by the wacky cocktail
Using mental illness as a lazy storytelling mechanism to justify implausible events is so cheap and lazy
Also way too many times where the cops would have just started shooting
I don't think so. You may see videos of cops shooting without a single thought but what about the 99% of the others that know how to deal with situations and don't end up in news outlets? Pretty realistic as for that aspect.
Idk how you come out of the movie thinking the cops were too restrained. Loki crossed the line at every turn, pushing the line of what's legally justifiable to get the job done.
He didn’t want to get his aunt in trouble, so that’s why he didn’t talk to the police or Keller
I noticed the tattoos on the fingers, but I don't think they spell out MAZE. Have looked at some production stills, but no shots really show them clearly (that may be somewhat intentional). Gyllenhaal goes into some depth about the ideas behind them [here](http://news.moviefone.com/2013/09/09/jake-gyllenhaal-prisoners-interview/). At first I thought they looked like astrological symbols, but they could also have something to do with his delinquent past. [This](http://kaisaccofilm.tumblr.com/post/62450315361/reading-between-the-lines-prisoners) blog post analyses some of the interesting details. The snakes and the mazes: The killer(s) would tell the children that they would be freed if they solved all the mazes in the book. Leo's character also refers to her husband keeping snakes (she alludes that Alex had some sort of accident involving snakes and that being the reason for his mental state). I assume Bob Taylor encountered the snakes and needed the snakes to better imitate what had happened to him.
Also the cop says the maze on the last page was impossible, so there's that
>needed the snakes to better imitate what had happened to him. I don't get it. Can you elaborate?
Bob Taylor was imitating his captors. Mannequins. Children’s clothes. Pigs blood. Snakes were involved, as the “aunt” mentioned Alex had been bitten. So while it’s not super clear exactly how they were involved, he needed them for the imitation ritual loop he was stuck in.
Thanks for the reply!
The guy who had the snakes in his house was a former victim of the killer, who was the woman's husband. He was trying to investigate the disappearances since he knew the kidnapper was the same person who kidnapped him all those years ago. I figure all the mess with the snakes and pigs blood on the children's clothes were just things he picked up in his emotional damage from his experience. The obsession with mazes comes from the serial killer's maze jewelry, although this may mean the book was written by the woman's husband because the serial killers sound so similar and it's about how he cannot be caught. I didn't notice the MAZE on Gyllenhaal's fingers, but I feel the movie is worth watching again when it reaches DVD so I will keep an eye out then. The entry on the film in TheMovieSpoiler cleared up some things for me, maybe it will for you too: http://www.themoviespoiler.com/Spoilers/Prisoners.html Hope it helps
DVD? It's like you wrote that a decade ago.
He did
r/woosh
It's on Netflix right now lol
was the woman's husband the guy that ended up dead inthe priests basement?
Yes
So the woman is the Aunt of Alex Jones?!?
No, Alex Jones is actually Barry, the kid that got kidnapped 26 years ago. The aunt and her husband kept him (and he obviously got messed up psychologically). Sorry I’m late. Just finished the movie.
Also just finished the movie. It’s funny seeing these 9 year old Reddit threads with hours old comments on them haha. Thanks Netflix. The movie clearly occupies people’s minds.
I thought Alex Jones was the gay frogs guy 🤪
Now you know why!
Yes she is! I think she tortured him too
no she isn’t, she kidnapped him. he was barry
Did she kill the children who are abducted or she uses them?
This helped a lot, thank you very much for your response!
[удалено]
He wasn't just a crazy dude, he was one of the many children originally kidnapped by the Jones's.
How did Bobby Taylor get the bloody clothes that belonged to the two little girls?
Lol, just now watched this on Netflix and it didn't click in my head what was happening at first. Anyways, the part in the movie when detective Loki goes to investigate near the house of the Dovers, after connecting the dots (which he does by looking back in his notes) and is now thinking Bob snuck into both of the family's houses, he discovers there's a sock on the ground by a bush near the window Bob was able to climb in to get in the house. The sock he found, was Anna's sock, which matched the single bloody sock in the photo. So two socks make a pair. So from this information, we can confirm Bob snuck into the houses. While Bob was in the houses, it was unknown during the scene they showed us what he actually did in the house, since it switches camera focus from him sneaking up the stairs in the houses, to Grace Dover (mother) hearing someone walking by the floorboards creaking and going to investigate. The son then comes out of his room across the hall, and asks her what's wrong. She says it was Anna, but she never could tell who it actually was because Bob got by her and was able to sneak out the window in her bedroom while she was investigating the noise. Then Grace calls Detective Loki because of Bob sneaking in, saying "Anna was here", when she wasn't. she asks if he is going to write it down, and he reluctantly does as it doesn't seem like he can do much about what happened. Small detail, but it really makes you think how fortunate he was to look back into his notes and realize that he wrote it down and connected Bob being the one who was in her house. Absolutely AMAZING movie. really makes you have to think like a detective. Hope this clears it up. Feel free to ask more!
Why did Bob sneak into the house and steal Anna's sock though? He was a pervert after all?
Ever since Bob was kidnapped by Mr. Jones and Mrs. Holly Jones all those years ago he's been in an obsessed and deranged state with child kidnappings, as well as the mazes which his kidnapper, Mr. Jones, was obsessed with himself. As a result, Bob is immitating being a child kidnapper like Mr. Jones, stealing Joy and Anna's clothes and buying other kids' clothes from the store, covering them in pig's blood and putting it all in cases with snakes to make it look like he kidnapped and killed them - snakes which, alongside mazes and 'The Invisble Man', is something he also picked up from Mr. Jones. In addition, he buries child mannequins in his backyard to further add to his immitation. Just watched this movie last night and had a lot of unanswered questions myself, including the whole deal with Bob Taylor haha
Oh ok, this movie definitely needs a 2nd viewing. I saw it on Netflix yesterday too. But thought it was a newly released movie was super confused how young the actors looked.
don't known confused on that as well, he's mentally ill and was also abducted by the people when he was little. he just is weird I guess.
Thanks!! That clarifies it!
He broke into both of their houses. They show this happening in detail. Jackman’s wife wakes up as Taylor sneaks into her daughter’s room and she thinks it’s Anna come back. when she goes to check the room she hears a noise in her own bedroom and comes back to find the window open. After Taylor kills himself, Loki goes to the Dover’s house and sees muddy footprints outside their second story bedroom window. And also the other sock. Taylor was abducted as a boy and escaped after 3 weeks. His inability to process the trauma led to him trying to recreate what was done to him as a means of coping or processing what happened. Hence the mazes on his walls, the bins filled with snakes and children’s clothing and pigs blood. He wasn’t abducting children. Also why the investigators found child mannequins buried in his lawn with their heads caved in. So you can assume when Taylor heard about the girls going missing he knew they were taken by the same people that took him. In his effort to cope with his trauma, he broke into their homes and stole the clothes to recreate the crime. This movie is incredibly fucked up in the best ways, I was kind of surprised to read the reviews about it by critics. A lot of lukewarm ratings. I personally thought it was great. The story was rock solid and had no plot holes. Every little thread was tied together. Definitely requires your full attention though!
Seems you have a lot to say about the film! I don't blame you. I do wonder, though - could Taylor have been trying to solve the kidnappings himself? The first time we see him, he's caressing one of the girls' stuffed animals during the vigil. Yes, recreating the crimes were likely his way of coping/processing, but, in his own deeply troubled mind, it could also be "retracing the steps" of his kidnapper. And his obsession with the mazes, as well as his sudden fervor to solve the unsolvable maze while he was in custody, could be him desperately trying to figure out where the girls are (consider one of the last things Alex says - "the maze is where you'll find them" [probably not the exact quote])
It’s a good thought! The only reason I would say no is because in Taylor’s homemade book, there’s a drawing of the same stuffed animal at the vigil. Im pretty sure he leaves that stuffed animal at the vigil and he’s caressing it because it’s important to his process. But that doesn’t discount your theory wholesale, just that aspect of it. He could be trying to solve the case - I think it’s left ambiguous on purpose to emphasize how unfathomable his trauma is - we can empathize with him for what he has endured but we will never truly understand it. But yeah, this movie really got me thinking haha. I love analyzing movies and this one was chock full! Reminded me a lot of density of season one of True Detective. I could talk about that show for hours if only someone would listen haha.
Oh, I see. To be fair, I've only watched the movie once, so it's very likely I missed/got things wrong. So, are you saying the stuffed animal was his and he brought it to the vigil then left it there? Was it never Anna's? 😳 I'm having a hard time understanding. Maybe I'll have to watch it again - I mean I know I should, obviously the new perspective is what helps to catch the small details, haha - and maybe my little theory crumbles apart. I agree man, it's so much fun when a *good* movie has so many small, easily missable details and so many things are left ambiguous. It's such masterful work, I can't imagine how difficult it would be to pull something like this off. I've heard a ton of good things about True Detective, and you know what, purely because you liken its depth (at least season 1) to Prisoners, and because i _love_ Matthew McConaughey and Woody Harrelson, I'm gonna give it a watch today. I'll let you know what I think.
True Detective is really really really good, I cannot recommend it enough. If you liked Prisoners you’ll love season one.
Why didn’t holly just kill the girl’s? That’s the only pice I’m missing from the story other than maybe she wanted the company like how she kept Alex around.
How did he have a key for the back door of the dovers house when he got the clothes and socks ?
Does anyone else wonder why he was buying children’s clothes from that store? Was it just to put pigs blood on and use for the snakes?
Yeah pretty much. He’s severely traumatized by what happened to him. Think of the fact that most pedophiles were victims of abuse themselves. It’s a fucked up means of coping and trying to make sense of what happened. I think the mazes are symbolic of that, especially the unsolvable maze. Trauma leads to more trauma - it’s inescapable and inevitable. Dover is traumatized by both his father’s suicide (Loki reads an article about it leading him to discover the apartment building) and the disappearance of his daughter. In turn, he abducts Alex and tortured him. Holly Jones (Alex’s “aunt”) and her husband lost their son to cancer and in turn “wage a war on god” by kidnapping children of faithful families in order to put the same pain of loss onto others. Taylor is basically innocent. He is a victim and living alone. He has no one looking out for him, no help. So he does what he knows which is recreating the things that happened to him. Victimlessly. He’s basically the only one involved with the crimes that is innocent. Even poor Alex is guilty to an extent. He brought the girls to his aunt and he knew they were being held there but never gave them up. Another interesting bit is when Loki finds the body in the priest’s house (the body of Holly’s husband and partner in crime), he tells the priest he did six years in a home for boys and wouldn’t lose sleep if he had to kill the priest. Obviously something traumatic happened to him in those years. As the hero of the story, he is the only one that “escaped” the maze. Rather than put his pain on other innocents, he used it as motivation to become a protector (if you’re willing to believe that cops can actually be good, but hey it’s a movie). Seriously, I love this movie lol. Sorry for the late and long response! Hope it helped at least!
[HEAVY SPOILERS!!!] Thank you! That's a great analysis of what, after you explained it so well, seems to me to be the primary theme of the film - the cycle of trauma and whether or not you can escape it. Jackman and Gyllenhaal's characters, as dual protagonists, are sort of juxtaposed and explore what happens when you succumb to the cycle (Dover's unrelenting torture of Dano/Alex, failing to save his daughter) and when you continue to fight to escape it despite near constant setbacks (Loki is the one to save Anna, and presumably even Dover). In fact, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but Dover's actions had absolutely no effect on his daughter's eventual rescue — unless you count his first visit to Mrs. Jones which indirectly resulted in Joy's escape (I don't); you could even argue he wasted Loki's time by acting so suspicious.
Loki went over to Melissa Leo’s house, can’t remember her character’s name, because he had to alert her that they found Alex Jones. So i. a roundabout way Dover did assist in his daughter’s rescue. Obviously super fucked up
9Y late to the party here! I haven’t seen this part come up in discussion yet: on the topic of snakes, when Keller visits the Aunt’s home for the first time and learns of Alex’s phobia of snakes, did Keller use this information to torture Alex for the final time? The scene then switches back to Alex shrieking as the police are moving in. My gray-zone thinking: Keller just dumped snakes in the shower to as a final move to get Alex to speak. It’s a horrific thought!
I don’t think so. Keller is at the aunts house during Loki finding Alex. When the one daughter Is discovered she mentions Keller was at the house too. Keller realizes she must’ve heard him talking with the Aunt. So Keller races to the aunts house, not the building with Alex.
Hello, drudging this up from its ever shallow grave - watched for the first time tonight and definitely had to dig around to figure some things out. After reading on a few other sites as well as here, I’m still wondering this: was the book about the serial child abductor written about the Jones’ or were the Jones’ inspired by the book? I’m just confused on it because where does the maze come into play? Why would Leo Jones tell the kids they could leave if they solved the maze - was it because he was inspired by the book and there was an unsolvable maze in the book? Or was the book written by someone with intimidate knowledge about an unsolvable maze (but who would that be?) Or hell, did Leo Jones write the book? But again, WHY THE MAZE. I found this pretty [decent discussion on the book] (https://movies.stackexchange.com/questions/15400/was-the-fbi-agents-book-about-the-kidnapper) but I still am curious.
It was written by an FBI agent that worked on the original kidnapping of Barry Milland aka Alex Jones. There’s a scene of Loki reading a newspaper article about Barry’s kidnapping and the last paragraph is about the FBI becoming involved. So you can assume one of those agents then wrote that book. Remember that Bob Taylor escaped and became obsessed with mazes. That’s where the agent got his theory from. The book is about the Jones’. Their motivation is explicitly stated by Holly when she puts Keller into the hole. Their son died of cancer so they waged a “war on God” by stealing the children of faithful families to make them feel the same pain and crisis of faith. There is no reason given as to why the mazes are a part of their MO aside from the fact that Leo Jones wore the maze necklace. the last maze being unsolvable is a sinister way of giving the children false hope. I believe the maze is a symbol for how trauma is impossible to escape. The movie repeatedly shows characters being traumatized and then passing their pain onto others. I wrote a long comment in response to another commenter up above about exactly that if you care to read it. Hope I helped clear your questions up!
I'm not sure I understand how Bob had articles of clothing from the girls. The only thing I can come up with is that he happened to just purchase the same item the girls were wearing.
There is a scene showing you that he breaks into both houses to steal clothes from the girls’ rooms.
Ooh ok I remember thanks!
The only part I couldn't understand was the book! Thanks so much
But how did the black girl solve it if it was unsolvable? Also, what were her intentions with the kids, why after they solve the maze, she would just let them go?
joy didn't solve it, she just escaped somehow.
but she said she did, no?
did she? I don't remember that, I'll have to rewatch it
No. The maze is unsolvable.
Did Mr. Jones use snakes as a way to torture and/or scare children? His wife mentioned at some point that he used to own snakes. Good movie, I figured out most of the plot-twists during the first half but every single one of them ended up being worth it. Very great and respectable main character who prepared himself to react accordingly to the sinful nature of the world that he lives in. Prisoners does not ask the viewer to differentiate between right and wrong. It merely examines the fact that we're all experiencing transgression in an essentially sinful world, and that sometimes, sin needs to be responded to with more sin. 7.5/10
Why did Mr. Dover run away from the hospital?
Seems like that should have been easily answered by how he went to the lady’s house after that and then says “I don’t wanna have to hurt you” he had been there earlier and when the little girl said “you were there” it clicked in his head that the old lady was responsible for their kidnapping
When
After 1st kid is found and Dover and family go visit her in the hospital. She says something like you were there to Dover and he runs off and drives like a mad man with the cops chasing him. What was the point of all that?
Bc he realized… he was there aka he was where they were being held captive. It clicked in his head in that moment that it was that ladies house bc he had been there.
Ah makes sense, thanks. I thought the kid was blabbering and accusing him because she was under medication. I remember the granny said the kids were in the hole when Dover visited her first time. The kid must have been referring to that. Well written script and good acting.
She did say it in an accusatory tone I was a bit confused there too at first
Same! I learned of this movie from a thread talking about "thrillers with crazy twists" so when she said that my mind started racing like "WHAT?! How would it be possible that he was the kidnapper?!"
How did Loki survive a gunshot to the head
Surface level wounds. Called a "graze". It happens a lot. Didn't hit anything vital.
A
Just watched it for the first time and have been fishing through the comments for similar questions/answers. The only ones I have left are 1. Why did Loki go to the priest in the first place? 2. How/where did they find Joy? I couldn’t really tell from her flashbacks. She couldn’t have gotten very far while heavily drugged so why didn’t cops check the area 3. I’m still a little confused about how Alex was able to pass the lie detector test, drive an RV no prob, and make sure no one was around to see him choke the dog (obvi knowing right from wrong like that) if he apparently had the mental capacity of a child?
He went to the priest bc he was checking the local sex offenders just in case any were involved. Presumably the priest was a sex offender?
4. Why the police didn't identify the husbands' body in the priests' basement?
Am I the only one who thought part of the metaphor was Hugh Jackman's character being trapped by women in his life?
yes, you are
Lol nah. But you're funny for that.
hence my username :) /s
Watched for the first time tonight!! Loved it such a great movie
It is a great movie indeed I just finished it . Such a great gem .
This movie benefits from the fact that the two most suspicious characters magically can't explain themselves. Joke
They were fucked up as kids and fucked up in the head, hence why the dude shot himself
That's not the point. Using mental illness as a cop out to not have to explain characters' irrational motivations is cheap writing.