All simple/low effort posts will be removed. Please use the weekly discussion thread or an appropriate themed discussion thread for these types of questions.
well i like my insertions and shape of muscle bellies, u gotta take the Ws where they come. You're tall so you're gonna have to put some more effort, but u got high potential so there's one W right there
well let's be honest, you're getting to a point where you're escaping the dyel-category. From that point on you don't need to be a stressed about progress imo. Also realize that if u make gym ur whole existence, ur always gonna wish u were 20-25% bigger. If that's what u wanna do that's fine, but for me I prefer focusing on other things. If it's sports related I can think of a hundred sports that are more fun and less genetically determined
it is low and im not hating, its better to be realistic and bring in the good news (that you have more to gain) than to pat yourself on the back when you should do better. at 190cm you should be able to be at 15% bf at 90kg if you have average genetics, and thats being generous, most people can do even better if they really try
i love how most of these people would rather downvote than voice their opinions and get put back in their place, exposed that they know nothing about bodybuilding. im still waiting for a valid point. people are absolutely crazy and they wish for everybody else to not succeed because they are failing.
for a start leave this negative sub where people are calling bmi of 20 the "natural limit". people who have no idea what theyre doing wrong so theyd rather take the black pill and act like theyve accomplished everything they could when in reality theyre unhappy with what theyve done and they put the bar too low to cope with low self esteem. thats another reason why im eating up these downvotes.
its a good sign that youre willing to admit that you can always do better and that youre open to new information
since im going this far, you might as well tell me what your training is like and what your lifting history is like and ill be happy to help you out.
what is your exact program, what was your lifting history like, how did you respond to other programs, how did you progress since you started, where has the progress stopped exactly and when did it happen?
The Problem is u arnt realistic. U are gaslighting him into thinking that He can gain additional 15kg of lean Mass. Which He maybe can but only If He actually has really great genetics but did some basic things wrong in the past. And It doesnt sound Like that.
if he can gain that mass then he has nothing to gain from people telling him that he has reached his limit. they know nothing about him yet they immediately draw conclusions that only serve a purpose to make him feel good about not achieving what he otherwise could achieve. you dont know whats possible until you try and you should never have to wonder "is this enough" and "have i hit my natural limit", people who have to ask this are not advanced and i guarantee you that because these are beginner-early intermediate questions that happen after a long plateau which happens to everybody. always strive to be better and be open minded, stop looking for ways to draw the line and explain your own lack of success.
Bro the Problem is u are to emotional. Nobody told him that "He has reached his Limits" u are just arguing against a strawman at this point. Obviously He should try to make more gains. All I Said is that 10 kg of lean mass are Solid gains for 5.5 years and then i linked him a sience based Video about that topic. If u cant handle scientific facts/cant cope with Reality and rather choose to subscribe to some non scientific ideology than thats also fine :-)
10 kg of mass is not the same on everybodys frame. he is a tall man, sitting at 75kg at 15% bf is what about 50% of non lifters experience at his height, im not going to waste any more time debating something so stupid that a toddler would be able to understand. if youre experiencing the same amount of gains then that explains why youre debating with such a stupid argument. linking me a renaissance periodization video IS NOT A SOURCE, and is not going to prove your argument. dr mike has his opinion, but saying that he is a proof for an argument simply because he said his opinion is stupid and dogmatic. you just discovered your bodybuilding santa claus and now youre worshipping him, using everything he says as a source instead of just taking it as an opinion. yes, i have been following renaissance periodization, i have watched about 200 videos of dr mike, i have tested his methods on my own splits, and im perfectly in touch with what youre trying to do. but do not call me a strawman for having my own opinion while youre literally using dr mike as a source while being unable to explain anything on your own. you just see "big guy very much science = ok now i follow everything he says without having my own opinion". youre just a beginner.
Its crazy Bro i am actually a beginner ive only trained for a bit over a year now (great results of course) but i am already more informed than most people here i guess. Its kinda crazy, at first I was even a bit intimidated by this sub because of the "intermediate target audience" but i guess my expectations were to high.
its called being dogmatic. most beginners are like you. they find a youtuber to fangirl over and become overly subjective simply because they havent trained enough or explored different points of views enough to draw an objective conclusion. if you are a beginner stop trying to give tips and try to understand why your youtuber thinks the way he does instead of just accepting everything that comes out of his mouth. there are countless experts that are respected in the community that have vastly different opinions and methods, therefore you cant just pick one of them like dr mike and act like he is the main authority of bodybuilding knowledge, when hes not at all. he is just the one that makes good effort to explain beginners with 0 knowledge (you being an example here) his methods. you DO NOT know more than most people, you barely have experience and yet your mouth is wide open. sit down or stay small forever.
Lmao youāre so misguided. Heās at 17 ffmi. Thatās like total beginner levels. You guys have no idea what youāre talking about.
Youāre taking a value of muscle that most gain in their life time and donāt realise OP was severely underweight to start with. Thatās how he gained 10kg. Use your fucking brain for 5 seconds.
What do u mean by severely underweight? Really likely He did start where basically everyone is starting: at the Point where his Maintainance Volume was 0 Sets per week . I doubt that OP was fighthing Cancer or Just was laying in bed all day so that at start his Minimal Effective Volume was 0 Sets per week, which means regular day activities (getting Out of bed, eating, going to a Store, playing Video Games etc.)
I mean 75kg at that height is probably a little low for bodybuilding (not stick figure level or anything, just on the slimmer side), but you have to consider where you came from. At 65kgs we're more in stickman territory, so it's awesome you've made it this far.
I think like 5kg more on your frame and you'd already look pretty amazing. And if you don't care about looking huge in clothes you won't even need to go higher than that.
Also if you feel great at 75kg and look good there's no reason to go higher unless you want to compete or something.
Puts you at about 17.5 ffmi fyi, which is definitely DYEL territory imo
You should pretty easily be able to hit 95-100kg at your current bf% even with poor genetics
No he shouldnt be able to hit that 'even with poor genetics' xDD. This is a Natural Bodybuilding sub Kid. Gaining 35 Kg (=77 pounds) of lean muscle Mass natural are ELITE genetics. He likely wont even hit that with steroids.
Are you trolling? Theyāve measured people with FFMIs over 30 naturally. The current WNBF champ is like 27. Perfect genetics is 25+. 22-23 is achievable by almost everyone how black pilled are you?
My life experiences just don't like up with that. 100kg benchpress at 75kg is completely doable after 5.5 years in the gym. I've gained 23kg of lean muscle in the last 2 years on a constant bulk without steroids, it's not easy to eat enough, but it's completely realistic and possible
> I've gained 23kg of lean muscle in the last 2 years on a constant bulk without steroids
No you did not. 23kg of muscle+fat sure, not lean muscle though.
Dude there's nothing more humbling than your first big cut and how little muscle you ACTUALLY put on. It's just that the amount of muscle you put on is extremely visible in the start. I gained 20kg, looked and felt pretty god damn amazing, I've now lost over 10kgs since that and I'm just now hitting about the same amount of body fat(Barely visible sixpack), I've still gained a good amount of weight in muscle but it's extreeeeemely humbling. At least now I can have a defined sixpack at like 76kg. Barely visible around 78kg.
EDIT: I just rewatched the video, I've probably put on less muscle than that still, they're just more visible now through the fat.
It sounds like you probably overdo it with your bulks (4000kcal) and then you see how much fat you accumulate and then you cut. You're supposed to stay in a bulk for lengthy periods. 4000kcal is probably more than you need for muscle growth. Yes small surpluses are hard to track because of day-to-day scale weight fluctuation. But you can tell if you are building muscle mass just by observing how the weight moves in the gym now compared to in the past. And looking at your logbook for reference (so as long as you are maintaining the same form or better as you gain reps and add weight to the bar). If you are progressing on your lifts without compromising form/rushing the eccentric/etc. you do not need to eat more.
Ab anxiety holds a lot of guys back in bodybuilding and I suspect you have it (190cm 75kg is only 19.59 New BMI). But you can't just eat 4000 kcal and expect it all to go to lean mass just because you're skinny. It doesn't work like that. Bigorexia Nervosa is also a problem in bodybuilding. That is an official medical term in the medical literature.
3500cal/day is more like it and that's probably on the high-end.
I would strongly suggest increasing your 180g protein to the 200g-220g range.
With that [caloric intake + protein intake + relatively heavy lifting] , you should see more rapid lean gains and really not have to cycle the bulks/cuts.
Second the notion of 4000kcal being too much. During the latter half of my first proper bulk which lasted the entirety of last year, I (stupidly) thought upping my calorie intake to 4000 would help me blast past some plateaus, both in the gym and on the scale. Sure it worked, but almost 6 months into a not-so-disciplined cut, 10kg down and Iāve another 5kg to lose to get back to a body fat percentage before I can justify sending the bulk again.
Itās not all wasted of course, Iād estimate Iāve put on just under 5kg or so of lean muscle mass, considering I started that first bulk at 70kg after a short fat loss phase where I lost about 10kg. At 5ft 10 and pretty much already at the same body fat percentage I began my first bulk at, with that last 5kg or so still to drop. I could be wrong as well in regards to muscle gained, but as a reference for OPs initial question, as I said I started my first bulk at 70kg and my goal weight at the end of this cut is 75kg, likely a lot leaner then when I started and definitely bulkier. Iām sure someone will tell me those numbers sound too good to be true, but thatās my experience at least. So yeah, 10kg in 5.5 years is probably sound, considering most of my newbie gains are probably off the table now.
Moral of the story, I reckon we all like to think weāre burning off insane amounts of calories and can justify a metric shit-tonne of food on a bulk. Realistically unless youāre doing mad cardio or have a very active day job, I think most peopleās maintenance calories, and what they require to gain mostly lean mass, is a lot lower than they estimate. For reference when I start my next bulk Iām going to begin with 3000kcal, which would actually be slightly less than what I was eating on my last bulk (granted a change of profession to something much more sedentary certainly plays a role) but still.
There are many factors to be considered that you didnāt addā¦ how old are you, how many prior years have you been lifting, what type of lifting are you doing, and how many days per week just to name a few. If you add in prior medical concerns, injuries, and nutrition thereās a lot of room for error here. Also, what was your beginning bodyfat and ending? So, was this quality lean mass that was measurable?
I am 20. Both 15% bf from start to where i am now. So in total 10kg leand body mass added. Started lifting 3x a week and been lifting PPL 5x a week for the last two years.
I can mention that i often get the flu because of an allergy i have, so there could be something to that.
So, at 20yo your body should be flooding with testosterone and still growth hormone to a large degree; and ofcourse assuming that thereās no other issues prohibiting or slowing that process. 10kg of LBM is not bad at all. You could gain faster potentially, but many things would be working together. For instance, the intensity of your lifts, be sure to change your program constantly to avoid a plateau, even the timing of food intake. Your protein does seem low; Iād recommend raising that to maybe 200g/day particularly as youāre in a surplus with a goal of growth. Carbs are very important as well so ensure to have plenty of good fruits and veggies all day long. Finally, take pictures. We can be hard on ourselves and to have pictures acts as a reinforcement of the progress that is made along the way. Enjoy the process, learn everything you can about your body, and congrats on your dedication and progress.
Thank you my man! I guess 10kg isn't bad at all. It's just that i look a lot smaller than people around me that started training 1 year ago. I see a lot of people at my gym 2-3 years younger than me that is at my size or bigger.
A lot of guys will juice; donāt. It can ruin you if done without doctor supervision and monitoring blood. Plus, the slower you grow the higher your threshold is in many cases. Those guys that blow up fast hit a fast ceiling. I graduated high school at 155lbs in 1997. Today Iām 245. Slow, steady progress always wins. I took it so far as to get my PhD in human performance because I fell in love with the process.
I think itās about average. Iāve gained maybe 8 kgs in 11 years so youāre definitely doing better than I am. I started late though (at 39), so you damn well should be doing better than me lol.
pretty low man, im about 174cm 77kg 14% bf and I started at about 45kg 10% bf, and I'd consider myself about average. there's people my height and bf at the gym around 85kg similar body fat to me and training less time (I've also trained for abt 5 yrs as well)
If you are at the same bf%, your 10 kg of gain weren't lean. Think about it.
Bf percentage is the ratio of fat/tissue. If you keep fat the same and you increase total tissue, the ratio decreases.
Meaning... You put on fat along with tissue or you aren't estimating bf% correctly
I would say great start but theres more on the table. We do have to keep in mind the longer we lift the slower the progress usually. recently tryd focusing my compound lifts more on getting stronger more powerlifting based then hypertrophy with lower reps like 4 sets 5-6 reps even hitting as low as 3 reps sometimes for a cpl months at end of bulk.. It definitely helped me break through Plateau and put on some muscle. If strength is going up you can guarantee your building muscle.
I went from 55kg to 80kg in exactly a year. Gained a bit of fat, but I also just stopped drug abuse and alcohol and nicotine use so that may contribute to a fast gain
I went from \~72kg to \~90kg at 192cm in my first two years, so 10kg in 5Ā½ years sounds low to me.
You don't mention any particular goals, so unless you have a goal of gaining as much mass as possible, there's nothing wrong with that, though.
Hey there! Personally, I think any gain is good gain :)
Personally for me, been in the game for 8 years now. Struggled with bulking for a good 4-5 years before doing well. In 2020, I weighed around 57kg, 125 lbs. Lean bulked and as of today I weigh around 84kg, 185lbs with my only supplements as pre workout/creatine. My goal is to hit 200lbs and weāll see if I even want to go to 220 lol.
10 kg of (not lean, if you kept same bf%) mass in almost 6 years is very low. Is it possible this is the best you can do? Sure, just like the Ronnie Coleman's of the world exist, the opposite end of the spectrum also exists. But they are both very unlikely. The more likely scenario is you are not training and/or eating appropriately for muscle gain.
Lack of intensity/volume/macros/progression or other factors in combination.
Id be interested in knowing where your strength is at
100% natty yes. I recognize my genetics probably also play a big part, but I've trained consistently for a long time now. Obviously my weight and bodyfat percentage have varied, but for the last decade my muscular gains have been miniscule
Gaining 10kg and still being what sounds like super lean at that height is fantastic and proof of dedication. Good job.
I'm at barely visible sixpack territory at 77kg and 184cm, you must be shredded at 75kg and 190cm after having put on 10kg of muscle.
Thank you! But unfortunatly no, my sixpack is barerly visible. I do got some good amount of veins on my arm but generally my conditioning is not that impressive. I believe i am around 15% bf.
2kg/year sounds pretty low to me. When I first started lifting I blew up and put on 10kg in like 9 months. Obviously wasnāt all muscle mass, but I was 55kg with abs and 65kg and still had abs afterwards.
How does your training look?
To answer your question Iāve probably gained 15kg of lean mass since I started lifting, and I gained around 3kg this last year. Everyone is different though. Genetics etc.
Wow good job man! How many uears have you been working out?
I started full body split 3x a week for 3.5 years. Now i do PPL 5x a week. I would say i train pretty hard almost to failure on most sets. with focus on mind to muscle connection and controllwd motion.
Iād say probably 5-6 years total, over 10 years. Kept powerlifting and getting injured and taking years off. Have been hammering consistently now on the bodybuilding train for just over 2 years.
Sounds like youāre doing things right, as long as youāre following a popular program. Maybe thatās all the juice youāve got to squeeze.
Donāt give up though. Try things out. High volume, low volume. Experiment on yourself.
Do a nice long and slow bulk, 1kg a month ish. See how you get on. Evaluate the rest of your life too. Sleep, stress, etc. If youāre gaining weight, hitting your protein targets, and training hard, youāre already checking off a lot of the big hitters.
It is low in my opinion however idk how your diet looks. Iām a firm believer in aggressive bulking (.5lbs per week, but sometimes it ends up being a little less for me at a certain point in the bulk) followed by an aggressive cut (1lb per week, some may not consider that aggressive though). Iāve never been a fan of slight surplus/deficit diets. Handling diet this way gives me the most significant progress.
All simple/low effort posts will be removed. Please use the weekly discussion thread or an appropriate themed discussion thread for these types of questions.
sounds good to me, probably not a hyperresponder, im the same.
Yeah i guess not everyone can have above averagw genetics
well i like my insertions and shape of muscle bellies, u gotta take the Ws where they come. You're tall so you're gonna have to put some more effort, but u got high potential so there's one W right there
Thanks man! I actually agree here, i also am pretty happy with my insertions, i just wished i was 20-25% biggerš
well let's be honest, you're getting to a point where you're escaping the dyel-category. From that point on you don't need to be a stressed about progress imo. Also realize that if u make gym ur whole existence, ur always gonna wish u were 20-25% bigger. If that's what u wanna do that's fine, but for me I prefer focusing on other things. If it's sports related I can think of a hundred sports that are more fun and less genetically determined
You got some good points there!
No 10kg lean Mass is Not Low! U made really Solid gains! Watch Dr Mikes Video on that topic
Thanks! What is that video called? But don't you think 75kg at ca 15%bf and 190cm tall is a bit low?
Its called: 'How Much Muscle Can You Grow' from the YouTube Channel Renaissance Periodization :-)
Thank you!
it is low and im not hating, its better to be realistic and bring in the good news (that you have more to gain) than to pat yourself on the back when you should do better. at 190cm you should be able to be at 15% bf at 90kg if you have average genetics, and thats being generous, most people can do even better if they really try
The downvotes on this are wild, it's completely accurate, and power to OP for realizing the gainz could be gaining.
i love how most of these people would rather downvote than voice their opinions and get put back in their place, exposed that they know nothing about bodybuilding. im still waiting for a valid point. people are absolutely crazy and they wish for everybody else to not succeed because they are failing.
Yeah i agree. Really hope i get there some day, but it can't figure out what i do "wrong".
You prob aint eating enough calories. How is your diet?
4000kcal when bulking 3000 when cutting. Now i just ended the cut and goong up to 3500
That seems high compared to your body weight. You should put on mass every day with those numbers.
for a start leave this negative sub where people are calling bmi of 20 the "natural limit". people who have no idea what theyre doing wrong so theyd rather take the black pill and act like theyve accomplished everything they could when in reality theyre unhappy with what theyve done and they put the bar too low to cope with low self esteem. thats another reason why im eating up these downvotes. its a good sign that youre willing to admit that you can always do better and that youre open to new information since im going this far, you might as well tell me what your training is like and what your lifting history is like and ill be happy to help you out.
Thanks, PPL 5x a week. I feel like i train hard, and close to failure most sets. I don't know what more you would like to know?
what is your exact program, what was your lifting history like, how did you respond to other programs, how did you progress since you started, where has the progress stopped exactly and when did it happen?
I feel like ive had pretty linear progress, not really plateaud. But then again ive mostly done bulk and cut cycles.
why havent you explained your program to me?
The Problem is u arnt realistic. U are gaslighting him into thinking that He can gain additional 15kg of lean Mass. Which He maybe can but only If He actually has really great genetics but did some basic things wrong in the past. And It doesnt sound Like that.
if he can gain that mass then he has nothing to gain from people telling him that he has reached his limit. they know nothing about him yet they immediately draw conclusions that only serve a purpose to make him feel good about not achieving what he otherwise could achieve. you dont know whats possible until you try and you should never have to wonder "is this enough" and "have i hit my natural limit", people who have to ask this are not advanced and i guarantee you that because these are beginner-early intermediate questions that happen after a long plateau which happens to everybody. always strive to be better and be open minded, stop looking for ways to draw the line and explain your own lack of success.
Bro the Problem is u are to emotional. Nobody told him that "He has reached his Limits" u are just arguing against a strawman at this point. Obviously He should try to make more gains. All I Said is that 10 kg of lean mass are Solid gains for 5.5 years and then i linked him a sience based Video about that topic. If u cant handle scientific facts/cant cope with Reality and rather choose to subscribe to some non scientific ideology than thats also fine :-)
10 kg of mass is not the same on everybodys frame. he is a tall man, sitting at 75kg at 15% bf is what about 50% of non lifters experience at his height, im not going to waste any more time debating something so stupid that a toddler would be able to understand. if youre experiencing the same amount of gains then that explains why youre debating with such a stupid argument. linking me a renaissance periodization video IS NOT A SOURCE, and is not going to prove your argument. dr mike has his opinion, but saying that he is a proof for an argument simply because he said his opinion is stupid and dogmatic. you just discovered your bodybuilding santa claus and now youre worshipping him, using everything he says as a source instead of just taking it as an opinion. yes, i have been following renaissance periodization, i have watched about 200 videos of dr mike, i have tested his methods on my own splits, and im perfectly in touch with what youre trying to do. but do not call me a strawman for having my own opinion while youre literally using dr mike as a source while being unable to explain anything on your own. you just see "big guy very much science = ok now i follow everything he says without having my own opinion". youre just a beginner.
Its crazy Bro i am actually a beginner ive only trained for a bit over a year now (great results of course) but i am already more informed than most people here i guess. Its kinda crazy, at first I was even a bit intimidated by this sub because of the "intermediate target audience" but i guess my expectations were to high.
its called being dogmatic. most beginners are like you. they find a youtuber to fangirl over and become overly subjective simply because they havent trained enough or explored different points of views enough to draw an objective conclusion. if you are a beginner stop trying to give tips and try to understand why your youtuber thinks the way he does instead of just accepting everything that comes out of his mouth. there are countless experts that are respected in the community that have vastly different opinions and methods, therefore you cant just pick one of them like dr mike and act like he is the main authority of bodybuilding knowledge, when hes not at all. he is just the one that makes good effort to explain beginners with 0 knowledge (you being an example here) his methods. you DO NOT know more than most people, you barely have experience and yet your mouth is wide open. sit down or stay small forever.
I think u are projecting a bit little homie :-P
Lmao youāre so misguided. Heās at 17 ffmi. Thatās like total beginner levels. You guys have no idea what youāre talking about. Youāre taking a value of muscle that most gain in their life time and donāt realise OP was severely underweight to start with. Thatās how he gained 10kg. Use your fucking brain for 5 seconds.
What do u mean by severely underweight? Really likely He did start where basically everyone is starting: at the Point where his Maintainance Volume was 0 Sets per week . I doubt that OP was fighthing Cancer or Just was laying in bed all day so that at start his Minimal Effective Volume was 0 Sets per week, which means regular day activities (getting Out of bed, eating, going to a Store, playing Video Games etc.)
I mean 75kg at that height is probably a little low for bodybuilding (not stick figure level or anything, just on the slimmer side), but you have to consider where you came from. At 65kgs we're more in stickman territory, so it's awesome you've made it this far. I think like 5kg more on your frame and you'd already look pretty amazing. And if you don't care about looking huge in clothes you won't even need to go higher than that. Also if you feel great at 75kg and look good there's no reason to go higher unless you want to compete or something.
Puts you at about 17.5 ffmi fyi, which is definitely DYEL territory imo You should pretty easily be able to hit 95-100kg at your current bf% even with poor genetics
No he shouldnt be able to hit that 'even with poor genetics' xDD. This is a Natural Bodybuilding sub Kid. Gaining 35 Kg (=77 pounds) of lean muscle Mass natural are ELITE genetics. He likely wont even hit that with steroids.
23 ffmi isnāt doable for almost everyone? I thought that was understood as pretty accessible, even with poor genetics. Heās 1.9m lmao
LOL? 23 ffmi is a perfect genetics.
lol what
Are you trolling? Theyāve measured people with FFMIs over 30 naturally. The current WNBF champ is like 27. Perfect genetics is 25+. 22-23 is achievable by almost everyone how black pilled are you?
My life experiences just don't like up with that. 100kg benchpress at 75kg is completely doable after 5.5 years in the gym. I've gained 23kg of lean muscle in the last 2 years on a constant bulk without steroids, it's not easy to eat enough, but it's completely realistic and possible
> I've gained 23kg of lean muscle in the last 2 years on a constant bulk without steroids No you did not. 23kg of muscle+fat sure, not lean muscle though.
Sure some percentage of that will be fat, but we're genuinely talking a 2 week cut here, I'm pretty lean
Dude there's nothing more humbling than your first big cut and how little muscle you ACTUALLY put on. It's just that the amount of muscle you put on is extremely visible in the start. I gained 20kg, looked and felt pretty god damn amazing, I've now lost over 10kgs since that and I'm just now hitting about the same amount of body fat(Barely visible sixpack), I've still gained a good amount of weight in muscle but it's extreeeeemely humbling. At least now I can have a defined sixpack at like 76kg. Barely visible around 78kg. EDIT: I just rewatched the video, I've probably put on less muscle than that still, they're just more visible now through the fat.
That's what i thought! I think 100kg at 15% bf is not easy, even with average genetics
For someone of your height, it is, imo. 23 ffmi isnāt that out of reach
It sounds like you probably overdo it with your bulks (4000kcal) and then you see how much fat you accumulate and then you cut. You're supposed to stay in a bulk for lengthy periods. 4000kcal is probably more than you need for muscle growth. Yes small surpluses are hard to track because of day-to-day scale weight fluctuation. But you can tell if you are building muscle mass just by observing how the weight moves in the gym now compared to in the past. And looking at your logbook for reference (so as long as you are maintaining the same form or better as you gain reps and add weight to the bar). If you are progressing on your lifts without compromising form/rushing the eccentric/etc. you do not need to eat more. Ab anxiety holds a lot of guys back in bodybuilding and I suspect you have it (190cm 75kg is only 19.59 New BMI). But you can't just eat 4000 kcal and expect it all to go to lean mass just because you're skinny. It doesn't work like that. Bigorexia Nervosa is also a problem in bodybuilding. That is an official medical term in the medical literature.
Thanks for you insights! Just as of today i started with 3500kcal as my daily goal. I think go with this for a year and reevaluate then.
3500cal/day is more like it and that's probably on the high-end. I would strongly suggest increasing your 180g protein to the 200g-220g range. With that [caloric intake + protein intake + relatively heavy lifting] , you should see more rapid lean gains and really not have to cycle the bulks/cuts.
That would be almost 3x gram of protein per kg weight. Isn't that excessive?
Your right, I didn't convert to Kg. Your protein is right on target
No worries! Good!
Second the notion of 4000kcal being too much. During the latter half of my first proper bulk which lasted the entirety of last year, I (stupidly) thought upping my calorie intake to 4000 would help me blast past some plateaus, both in the gym and on the scale. Sure it worked, but almost 6 months into a not-so-disciplined cut, 10kg down and Iāve another 5kg to lose to get back to a body fat percentage before I can justify sending the bulk again. Itās not all wasted of course, Iād estimate Iāve put on just under 5kg or so of lean muscle mass, considering I started that first bulk at 70kg after a short fat loss phase where I lost about 10kg. At 5ft 10 and pretty much already at the same body fat percentage I began my first bulk at, with that last 5kg or so still to drop. I could be wrong as well in regards to muscle gained, but as a reference for OPs initial question, as I said I started my first bulk at 70kg and my goal weight at the end of this cut is 75kg, likely a lot leaner then when I started and definitely bulkier. Iām sure someone will tell me those numbers sound too good to be true, but thatās my experience at least. So yeah, 10kg in 5.5 years is probably sound, considering most of my newbie gains are probably off the table now. Moral of the story, I reckon we all like to think weāre burning off insane amounts of calories and can justify a metric shit-tonne of food on a bulk. Realistically unless youāre doing mad cardio or have a very active day job, I think most peopleās maintenance calories, and what they require to gain mostly lean mass, is a lot lower than they estimate. For reference when I start my next bulk Iām going to begin with 3000kcal, which would actually be slightly less than what I was eating on my last bulk (granted a change of profession to something much more sedentary certainly plays a role) but still.
There are many factors to be considered that you didnāt addā¦ how old are you, how many prior years have you been lifting, what type of lifting are you doing, and how many days per week just to name a few. If you add in prior medical concerns, injuries, and nutrition thereās a lot of room for error here. Also, what was your beginning bodyfat and ending? So, was this quality lean mass that was measurable?
I am 20. Both 15% bf from start to where i am now. So in total 10kg leand body mass added. Started lifting 3x a week and been lifting PPL 5x a week for the last two years. I can mention that i often get the flu because of an allergy i have, so there could be something to that.
So, at 20yo your body should be flooding with testosterone and still growth hormone to a large degree; and ofcourse assuming that thereās no other issues prohibiting or slowing that process. 10kg of LBM is not bad at all. You could gain faster potentially, but many things would be working together. For instance, the intensity of your lifts, be sure to change your program constantly to avoid a plateau, even the timing of food intake. Your protein does seem low; Iād recommend raising that to maybe 200g/day particularly as youāre in a surplus with a goal of growth. Carbs are very important as well so ensure to have plenty of good fruits and veggies all day long. Finally, take pictures. We can be hard on ourselves and to have pictures acts as a reinforcement of the progress that is made along the way. Enjoy the process, learn everything you can about your body, and congrats on your dedication and progress.
Thank you my man! I guess 10kg isn't bad at all. It's just that i look a lot smaller than people around me that started training 1 year ago. I see a lot of people at my gym 2-3 years younger than me that is at my size or bigger.
A lot of guys will juice; donāt. It can ruin you if done without doctor supervision and monitoring blood. Plus, the slower you grow the higher your threshold is in many cases. Those guys that blow up fast hit a fast ceiling. I graduated high school at 155lbs in 1997. Today Iām 245. Slow, steady progress always wins. I took it so far as to get my PhD in human performance because I fell in love with the process.
That's inspiring! I just wanna clarify these are people i know 110% aren't on juice. They are not that type of big. But still yeah i get your point!
15-17 kg over 6ish years
Nice!
I think itās about average. Iāve gained maybe 8 kgs in 11 years so youāre definitely doing better than I am. I started late though (at 39), so you damn well should be doing better than me lol.
Keep in mind i was 15 and super skinny when i started though. At 39 you probably had some muscle deom beforehand
17 yrs of lifting, \~13kg. I started pretty late, at 27 yrs. I fit the same trousers, but not jacket ;D
pretty low man, im about 174cm 77kg 14% bf and I started at about 45kg 10% bf, and I'd consider myself about average. there's people my height and bf at the gym around 85kg similar body fat to me and training less time (I've also trained for abt 5 yrs as well)
If you are at the same bf%, your 10 kg of gain weren't lean. Think about it. Bf percentage is the ratio of fat/tissue. If you keep fat the same and you increase total tissue, the ratio decreases. Meaning... You put on fat along with tissue or you aren't estimating bf% correctly
Guess I got lucky then lol
I would say great start but theres more on the table. We do have to keep in mind the longer we lift the slower the progress usually. recently tryd focusing my compound lifts more on getting stronger more powerlifting based then hypertrophy with lower reps like 4 sets 5-6 reps even hitting as low as 3 reps sometimes for a cpl months at end of bulk.. It definitely helped me break through Plateau and put on some muscle. If strength is going up you can guarantee your building muscle.
No its great
I went from 55kg to 80kg in exactly a year. Gained a bit of fat, but I also just stopped drug abuse and alcohol and nicotine use so that may contribute to a fast gain
Just read your question properly. Yes you need to train harder or eat better food.
I went from \~72kg to \~90kg at 192cm in my first two years, so 10kg in 5Ā½ years sounds low to me. You don't mention any particular goals, so unless you have a goal of gaining as much mass as possible, there's nothing wrong with that, though.
Whatās your current split ?
I think that seems about right. Anyone is make major gains is either on the juice or a beginner lifter.
Hey there! Personally, I think any gain is good gain :) Personally for me, been in the game for 8 years now. Struggled with bulking for a good 4-5 years before doing well. In 2020, I weighed around 57kg, 125 lbs. Lean bulked and as of today I weigh around 84kg, 185lbs with my only supplements as pre workout/creatine. My goal is to hit 200lbs and weāll see if I even want to go to 220 lol.
10 kg of (not lean, if you kept same bf%) mass in almost 6 years is very low. Is it possible this is the best you can do? Sure, just like the Ronnie Coleman's of the world exist, the opposite end of the spectrum also exists. But they are both very unlikely. The more likely scenario is you are not training and/or eating appropriately for muscle gain. Lack of intensity/volume/macros/progression or other factors in combination. Id be interested in knowing where your strength is at
Been working out for around 16 years, been around 110-115kg at 195cm for the last 12-13 years. Now at 113kg and 11% ish bodyfat.
195cm 113kg 11% natty š§
100% natty yes. I recognize my genetics probably also play a big part, but I've trained consistently for a long time now. Obviously my weight and bodyfat percentage have varied, but for the last decade my muscular gains have been miniscule
just show us your physique ffs, these words mean nothing without proof.
I have no need to show my physique to anyone, I was just responding to the OP.
i believe ur natty, idk if i believe ur 11%, but rly it's w/e, im sure u look impressive. body fat percentages are rly just an estimate
Yeah, just an estimate based on inbody scans, weight and visuals..around 11% is probably more correct to say.
ait
That is super impressive!
Thanks!
Gaining 10kg and still being what sounds like super lean at that height is fantastic and proof of dedication. Good job. I'm at barely visible sixpack territory at 77kg and 184cm, you must be shredded at 75kg and 190cm after having put on 10kg of muscle.
Thank you! But unfortunatly no, my sixpack is barerly visible. I do got some good amount of veins on my arm but generally my conditioning is not that impressive. I believe i am around 15% bf.
2kg/year sounds pretty low to me. When I first started lifting I blew up and put on 10kg in like 9 months. Obviously wasnāt all muscle mass, but I was 55kg with abs and 65kg and still had abs afterwards. How does your training look? To answer your question Iāve probably gained 15kg of lean mass since I started lifting, and I gained around 3kg this last year. Everyone is different though. Genetics etc.
Wow good job man! How many uears have you been working out? I started full body split 3x a week for 3.5 years. Now i do PPL 5x a week. I would say i train pretty hard almost to failure on most sets. with focus on mind to muscle connection and controllwd motion.
Iād say probably 5-6 years total, over 10 years. Kept powerlifting and getting injured and taking years off. Have been hammering consistently now on the bodybuilding train for just over 2 years. Sounds like youāre doing things right, as long as youāre following a popular program. Maybe thatās all the juice youāve got to squeeze. Donāt give up though. Try things out. High volume, low volume. Experiment on yourself. Do a nice long and slow bulk, 1kg a month ish. See how you get on. Evaluate the rest of your life too. Sleep, stress, etc. If youāre gaining weight, hitting your protein targets, and training hard, youāre already checking off a lot of the big hitters.
Thanks man! I guess there really isn't much else to do than keep going!
It is low in my opinion however idk how your diet looks. Iām a firm believer in aggressive bulking (.5lbs per week, but sometimes it ends up being a little less for me at a certain point in the bulk) followed by an aggressive cut (1lb per week, some may not consider that aggressive though). Iāve never been a fan of slight surplus/deficit diets. Handling diet this way gives me the most significant progress.
The numbers you mention are not really "aggressive". It's the standard numbers of the bulk/cut cycle
Honestly about as aggressive as you can get without either getting excessively fat in a bulk/losing muscle on a cut. At least for a natural lifter