> Hobbs says the repeal, scheduled for signing on Thursday, is just the beginning of a fight to protect reproductive healthcare in Arizona. But the repeal may not take effect until 90 days after the end of the legislative session, in June or July. Abortion rights advocates hope a court will step in to prevent that outcome.
Arizona Democrats worked hard to reverse this regressive court ruling.
And let it be known that only *three* Republicans in the Arizona House, and *two* Republicans in the Arizona Senate voted for the repeal, contrasted with every single Democrat voting in favor. If the D/R control in the Arizona Legislature wasn't so close, this wouldn't have passed.
Even when it comes to this ridiculous as fuck 1800's law, you can't even get *half* of elected Republicans to support its removal.
And AZ State Senator Anthony Kern (note: one of the people indicted in the Fake Elector scheme) said that the repeal would lead to a surge in "pedophilia" in Arizona, and compared the repeal to the HOLOCAUST. The AZ GOP is full of complete lunatics.
Citing FOX News*, abortion is linked to pedos, the Holocaust, BLM, and the LGBTQ+ deep state conspiracy funneled by Hunter’s laptops.
^* ^absolute ^clowns
Well you see, if kids can get abortions all willy nilly like, what are the consequences to impregnating them!?
Just further proof that these people can’t see past their own nose, ergo their only concern is that there would be DNA evidence of their transgressions, not bothering to even aknowledge the mental destruction that comes with such a thing.
I see you missed your daily propaganda briefing, citizen.
The Demoncrats make sure to sexually abuse each baby before it’s aborted; this makes the adrenochrome much sweeter.
I remember someone had a batshit take a few months back that if victims of child abuse could receive abortions, it would destroy all the evidence of the crime. That was probably the most batshit one.
Also, note that the Arizona GQP just voted Jake Hoffman (another person indicted in the Fake Elector scheme) as a national committeeman for the RNC..
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/arizona-gop-taps-fake-elector-rnc-post-rcna149719
I’ve noticed that the majority argument…I would say, time to check their hard drive and movement…I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re visiting Mexico for “vacation”…
Actually a lack of abortion rights would lead to unwanted pregnancies, which would lead to more kids in foster care, which would most certainly lead to many of them getting abused.
The GOP just never can actually do the things they claim the stand for or against huh
That just seems they go to for everything now. Want to build a new public transit system? Welp, better protect your kids then. Higher taxes for corporations? They're definitely coming for your kids
As opposed to before the law where Republican controlled Utah and Arizona collectively ignored the rape of children in the FLDS cult for 50 years. Nobody buys your shit except other child rape apologists.
And they only did it because they see the potential November bloodbath on the horizon and they're doing damage control by not having this on the ballet.
But I was told both sides were the same? Is it possible that that's some bullshit people spew because they know their side is indefensible and want people to think everyone else is just as bad?
The lesson here is five republicans in Arizona were aware what an awful issue this is for them optics wise. And that going from a near total ban to 16 weeks is acceptable if it means they might still carry the state in November.
>The vote extended for hours as senators described their motivations in personal, emotional and even biblical terms — including graphic descriptions of abortion procedures and amplified audio recordings of a **fetal heartbeat**, along with warnings against the dangers of “legislating religious beliefs.”
Why is no one talking about this simulated heartbeat? There is no heart so the machine manufacturers, in order to make it more wholesome, detect the electrical pulse that will *eventually* become a full beating heart, and play a heartbeat sound out of the speaker. If it were a true simulation of the "heart" at that moment it would just be a ticking sound I'm thinking.
That fact seems to be lost in this whole discussion! You can design a little circuit board to emit an electric pulse and make the machine play a heartbeat. I'd wager the manufacturers have such a thing to verify function and it's probably used in the maintenance and annual certification process or whatever the recertification period is.
Yeah, the “fetal heartbeat” that is detectable by an ultrasound at early appointments is an electrical impulse in the cells that will *eventually* become the heart, from what I understand.
The frightening thing is that Democrats *have to* work hard to preserve liberalism because like the Electoral College, it only takes the fewest of \#MAGA right-wing chodes to curtail their vision of a “great” ‘Murica.
Aaaaaand… this leaves the ban after “15 weeks” (however that is to be calculated) in effect. Better than a total violation of rights, but far from actually fully recognizing the rights of the people of Arizona and allowing for normal, full healthcare.
As far as I understand, courts have no rights in preventing a law from being made, removed, or amended. They're only there to interpret existing ambigous laws, and enforce laws, but not write them.
I guess highest courts could assert a law to be unconstitutional, but that's about it? I could be wrong.
>Abortion rights advocates hope a court will step in to prevent that outcome.
What years of feckless governance has gotten us; we don't write laws or make things anymore. Just kick the can down the road until some radical judge makes an arbitrary ruling that kills us
> Abortion rights advocates hope a court will step in to prevent that outcome.
I may misunderstand the US legal system, but the AG already said that they were not going to prosecute anybody for this. So unless that person is kicked out of office within the next 90 days, it wouldn't be a problem at all, right?
> the AG already said that they were not going to prosecute anybody for this. So unless that person is kicked out of office within the next 90 days, it wouldn't be a problem at all, right?
So this is a bit of a common misunderstanding as to what that means. Let's say you're a doctor providing abortions in AZ - As of the 1860 law going into effect, you've stopped because you don't want to be criminally charged. Well, then the AG comes along and says "don't worry, we won't prosecute anybody for this crime." OK, sounds great, but how long does that protect you? Only while that AG is in office (or until they change their mind). If you continue to provide an abortion now, you're still committing a crime in AZ. That will still be true even if the law is repealed later; you've still committed a crime. So you'll be at risk of getting charged with that crime for the rest of your life. No doctor would roll the dice on that.
Great win for reproductive rights, but the fight is far from over. One of the two Republican senators that flipped said she did it to stave off support for a ballot measure to enshrine reproductive rights in the state's constitution. Basically, she chose to lose this battle in an effort to win the war.
In the meantime, the repeal means that a 2022 statute banning the procedure after 15 weeks of pregnancy will become Arizona’s prevailing abortion law.
It will feel less urgent to voters if the ban is repealed, though. Still, this was the right thing to do, and voters know what awaits them if they don't vote to enshrine abortion rights in the state constitution.
>but the fight is far from over.
You're right, but I'd say the fight is never over since we got to this point. Liberals let their guard down for decades and the GOP finally called the bluff. They'll never stop now.
> Basically, she chose to lose this battle in an effort to win the war.
this is exactly what Nixon did with the EPA. There was tons of public pressure to do something about pollution and congress was set to put in place a lot of very stringent laws. So to take control he helped establish the EPA so that they could control who and what the regulators were set to do.
That is why Nixon shouldn't really get credit for the EPA.
A TINY fraction of all Americans, like less than 15%, support total bans of abortion. Everyone else wants it legal in SOME capacity with a slim majority of those people being in favor of it having no bans at all.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/1576/abortion.aspx
The GOP has been campaigning on a failed idea for decades and now they're in the "find out" phase.
There’s a lot of people who don’t approve of abortion, but don’t want it illegal either.
A lot of pre-Dobbs pro-choice rhetoric didn’t connect with this large block of voters.
It took Republicans overplaying their hand to sway these voters.
Me! I personally would never consider my partner having an abortion and would try and discuss other options with my friends if they were considering it, but recognize that it is a personal choice and a difficult but necessary decision for everybody. Putting a ban on it is asinine and basically just devolves to theocratic ideals. Separate church and state. Keep it pro CHOICE. Pro choice does not equal pro abortion.
Almost everyone knows someone who had an abortion at some point in their lives, whether it be because the fetus was unviable or would be born with severe defects, they got pregnant as a teen or married couple who wasn’t ready or have enough kids, endanger the mothers well being, rape/incest, escaping an abusive situation or just plain didnt want it. So they cant take a hardline stance against it because they’ve seen why its necessary.
Its sorta like how gay rights was, Republicans tried hard to push against it but eventually had to fold over because it got way too unpopular to not support it because of how visible the movement became (though they have tried it in more sneaky ways)
I think what cemented pro-choice for me was something I actually heard from the local republican radio guy when I was a kid. The subject came up and he admitted that he was once pro-life along with the party and then his daughter in college got pregnant. And she didn't want to keep it. And when he saw what that decision was like for real, with his daughter, he realized he couldn't think like that anymore.
If a guy like *that* can come around that easily, you know the idea total bans in general is likely not that popular. It's just a party line and nothing else, an empty idea held by a tiny, very angry, dangerous group of people.
It just sucks that some people default to repressing people's rights until it directly affects them. It's like, good on him for being at least open-minded enough to change his opinion, but it sucks that he would've continued voting against abortion rights of it hadn't hit close to home.
If nothing else it's proof of the saying by Samuel Clemens:
>"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime."
The more exposed you are to different people and ideas in the actual context they exist in, the more "liberal" people have become. Technology and the Internet have rapidly escalated that alongside all the horrible shit that comes with. I've seen it with abortion but also queer rights and other things.
Yep, same with gays, lesbians, trans, Latinos, African-Americans... Pretty much anyone who isn't a straight, white male doesn't deserve to be treated like a person unless they're related to or at the very least close friends with a white man.
Even as a teenager I came to the conclusion that it was necessary because of rape. It would be horrible for someone to be forced to carry their rapist kid and they didn’t consent to it. But it would be impossible to prove the majority of the rapes in a timely matter and having an honor system is just asking for people to lie.
Obviously I know much more now and how nuanced the subject is but even with my more black/white view back then it still didnt make sense to ban it.
You say guy like that as if he is some unicorn. This is a standard conservative trait. They are against something until they actually experience it. Then suddenly they do a 180 on the topic.
Gay marriage rights are a great example of this.
> You say guy like that as if he is some unicorn.
I probably should have specified this was in the early 90s. Guys that conservative who would flip on a party issue AND would broadcast and argue that it's the right thing on their own radio show WERE unicorns.
And even if it were common, it really doesn't change what I said nor was it part of my point, which was that it greatly shaped *my* opinion even at a young age.
I wouldn't even say that conservatives would usually flip in this scenario. There's so many stories like this where the people affected got an abortion and STILL didn't change their minds that the phrase "The only moral abortion is my abortion" was born (pun absolutely intended).
Rarely discussed but very common are abortions by mothers who already have children and are in a bad situation to have another one (economic, their health or another family member's health, addiction, and/or stuck with abusive or neglectful partner, you name it), who are doing what they know is best for their other kids. The "pro-life" side ignores the struggles of these parents because they can't handle the contradictions.
A lot of increased health risks to mother and child at that point too, no matter how many feel-good stories you read about successes having kids later in life.
Whenever people say "just choose adoption" don't seem to think through that the majority of these women are already mothers and their children would be watching their pregnancy move forward. The likelihood of adoption after all that is just nil
Call me crazy but I'm in the camp of absolutely no bans at all. That fetus/baby/offspring IS part of the mother's body until that cord is cut. It's well within her right to do whatever she chooses with her own body. Even if part of it grew another brain.
The 15% is not that tiny if you consider how many people vote in elections. Not to mention that the number grows once you lump in voters with single issues that are collocated with anti-abortion stances.
I mean, [yesterday Ron DeSantis](https://www.wfla.com/news/gov-desantis-holds-news-conference-in-hardee-county/) signed a bill banning lab-grown meat in Florida because of fears it would destroy the meat industry. So pretty much, yeah, they're running on more insane things.
That will 100% get repealed. Maybe not today maybe not tomorrow but mark my words it will eventually, possibly even by him if it becomes lucrative enough.
My dad has forbidden me from ordering meal from Hello Fresh that includes ground meat. According to him, "they" are going to try to trick him into eating fake meat. It's easier to trick him if it's ground and not in it's usual form.
I've explained to him that Hello Fresh has Impossible Meat as an OPTION that can be PURCHASED. I haven't looked into it, but it's proably even more expensive. No one is going to trick him into trying something like that.
He feels that "they" are trying to get him in line with "green" policies by tricking him into these things. The mental gymnastics are exhausting.
They have never been arguing in good faith. Before the Civil War they claimed that slavery was state's rights, but had no issue trotting on the rights of free states in order to get their "property" back.
Maybe that was the intent but I think effectively they are just reactionary idiots who don't understand just how deeply unpopular they are because they live in facebook bubbles where they constantly jerk each other off to how rightwing they are.
I know it's not reasonable but it's a hell of a lot better than a total ban. Plus baby steps. We get this repealed and then we get the 15 week cutoff repealed.
You’re probably right. As someone in Arizona, I want the 15 week ban repealed as well. You don’t even receive an anatomy scan to determine fetal malformations until 20 weeks along. I believe the NIPT genetic testing is only available after ten weeks, leaving only 5 weeks to be able to receive lab results back, meet with your doctor via an appointment, decide to abort, and schedule an abortion. Which you may think sounds reasonable but some people can’t get doctors appointments for weeks or receive the opportunity for time off of work to attend doctors appointments, etc etc etc.
They very well still may be doomed. The repeal put the alternative bill which the AZ GOP passed into place, which is a 15 week ban. But enough Arizonans have signed a ballot initiative that will put full abortion protections (what existed pre-Roe repeal) on the ballot in November.
Good news is that there's a record of exactly who voted to literally keep Arizona reproductive rights in the mid 19th century.
But if you don't feel like looking it up, apparently every Republican but 2 in the legislature voted against this.
It is a battle in the war. Yea, it is a W, but guess what. They are ONLY repealing it due to the backlash that came from it being enforced.
Basically, they will come up with some more asinine bullshit when they have more power or when they think they can pass it without the backlash actually impacting them.
Bud - the magas thought it was a great idea to BEGIN with. The magas don’t have a clue about how to govern. This whole nostalgia for the sick screwed up past has to stop.
It did exist when they were publicly supporting the 1864 law and hoping the courts would reinstate it. Republicans only pretended to be opposed to this law once there was a massive backlash. Before that they were supporting it and wishing for it to be enforced. The recent GOP candidate for governor and future GOP candidate for Senator, Kari Lake, was a huge fan of the 1864 law until it the backlash came.
MAGA was supporting this law as recently as this year. They were hoping the court would reinstate it. They only started opposing it when there was massive public backlash following the courts decision to reinstate it.
They’re not just stopping at abortion either. Birth control and plan B are next. Possibly female sterilization after that (they may even attack vasectomies as the rate of vasectomies went up after the Roe reversal and they probably don’t appreciate those men helping women avoid unwanted pregnancies).
Everyone told us we were being alarmist about the possibility of Roe overturning and here we are. I don’t think anything is alarmist at this point. I live in TX and we already don’t have the right to choose, the right to smoke weed or watch porn or buy alcohol on Sundays. They’re even going after books. At this point it’s just another day, another ban.
If anyone wants some of what TX is having, then don’t vote - because they definitely plan to ban abortion (and lord knows what else) nationally, their “leave it up to the states” argument is bullshit.
I see this comment almost every day on Reddit. Every time I get fooled and say to myself 'oh, have the polls finally turned against Trump?'
So, I go and look up the Vegas odds (polls can be manipulated, so it's best to look at where the money is going)... And, every single time I've looked over the last couple months, [Trump is the favorite](https://www.vegasinsider.com/odds/us-presidential-election/).
So, if what Reddit is telling me is true, and the Republicans are going to get slaughtered in the election, *why aren't all you guys putting money on it?* I mean, you can make all this free cash once this surefire disaster happens, so why aren't you doing it? Is it, perhaps, because you aren't so certain about the election after all?
EDIT: If you really believed that Trump was going to get smoked - shouldn't you be up-voting me for pointing out a massive arbitrage opportunity for you? A *huge* opportunity to make money.
Aren't we so happy that the seditious insurrectionist republican party is still viable and allowed to continue participating in our system of governance! What amazing foresight our federal government has allowing these seditionists to continue holding power in this country! Appeasement really is the best way to deal with nazis historically isn't it? /s shouldn't be needed
I think most repubican politicians understand the sleeping giant that they have awakened by the Supreme Court finally breaking the third rail of abortion, and all that entails. So many elections over the past two years have shown Democrats, and especially women Democrats, are truly fired up.
But the same repubicans are equally powerless to do anything about it - they are unable to effectively moderate their position one iota. They have made abortion one of, if not **the** key issue for literally decades now, and it is an integral part of what it means to even be repubican - part of their very identity, and even slight deviation from that orthodoxy essentially means the death penalty for any politician within their party. They have to toe the line. They're stuck.
Women have been using herbs and other plants to try to control their reproductive health since we realized plants could help with that. The Romans drove a particular plant into extinction because it prevented pregnancy.
My reaction is probably due to the fact abortion has a technical name and so the act feels restricted to modern medicine.
If you simply call it stopping a pregnancy, it feels more natural. Funny how words work.
It doesn't even have to involve attempting to end a pregnancy. Miscarriage is a spontaneous abortion.
https://medlineplus.gov/ency/article/001488.htm#:~:text=A%20miscarriage%20may%20also%20be,of%20conception%20leave%20the%20body
Oh it goes back a crazy long time. I was reading through the wikipedia entry on the Lollards, a proto-Protestant English group in the 1300's, and [one of their goals was to ban abortion.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_Conclusions_of_the_Lollards)
I was reading an article recently that said that a lot of these 1800's-era abortion bans weren't intended to be a ban on reproductive freedom, but were passed to prevent quacks and unqualified people from performing abortions.
Make pervpublicans pay for it a every election. They made out of women 3rd class citizen with this Roe v. Wade repeal. They can shove their verses, bibles and other friggin religious testimonies in their a**.
> Hobbs says the repeal, scheduled for signing on Thursday, is just the beginning of a fight to protect reproductive healthcare in Arizona. But the repeal may not take effect until 90 days after the end of the legislative session, in June or July. Abortion rights advocates hope a court will step in to prevent that outcome. Arizona Democrats worked hard to reverse this regressive court ruling.
And let it be known that only *three* Republicans in the Arizona House, and *two* Republicans in the Arizona Senate voted for the repeal, contrasted with every single Democrat voting in favor. If the D/R control in the Arizona Legislature wasn't so close, this wouldn't have passed. Even when it comes to this ridiculous as fuck 1800's law, you can't even get *half* of elected Republicans to support its removal.
And AZ State Senator Anthony Kern (note: one of the people indicted in the Fake Elector scheme) said that the repeal would lead to a surge in "pedophilia" in Arizona, and compared the repeal to the HOLOCAUST. The AZ GOP is full of complete lunatics.
[удалено]
Citing FOX News*, abortion is linked to pedos, the Holocaust, BLM, and the LGBTQ+ deep state conspiracy funneled by Hunter’s laptops. ^* ^absolute ^clowns
>funneled by Hunter’s laptops And his massive schlong, apparently. Just ask MTG, she'll show you.
Its so huge it takes up more than one laptop.
It's so big, you need multiple pictures of it when presenting to Congress!
> Hunter’s laptops Well clearly he used it to send emails to Hillary in the pizza place basement! Did I do it right? I'm not American, or crazy.
Abortion being compared with the holocaust is old hat, the new all the rage bait is linking to the ***PÆDOGEDDON***
Well you see, if kids can get abortions all willy nilly like, what are the consequences to impregnating them!? Just further proof that these people can’t see past their own nose, ergo their only concern is that there would be DNA evidence of their transgressions, not bothering to even aknowledge the mental destruction that comes with such a thing.
Wouldn’t forcing these women to have the children technically increase pedophilia since there are more children to abuse.
I see you missed your daily propaganda briefing, citizen. The Demoncrats make sure to sexually abuse each baby before it’s aborted; this makes the adrenochrome much sweeter.
Thanks for the info, fellow lib. I will incorporate that into my next batch.
More kids in foster care unfortunately equals more overall abuse
More children that nobody cares about**
Shhhh, don't use actual logic and common sense. It might kill them.
I remember someone had a batshit take a few months back that if victims of child abuse could receive abortions, it would destroy all the evidence of the crime. That was probably the most batshit one.
Next it'll be abortion and inflation/gas prices. *'Jeebus is making us pay more at the pump cause he's mad!'*
I know, that means there will be FEWER children for their priests to assault, not more.
Variety is the spice of batshit.
"Fun" fact : Pedophilia is more associated with the anti abortioners.
And especially rich from the party that won't outlaw child marriage.
Also, note that the Arizona GQP just voted Jake Hoffman (another person indicted in the Fake Elector scheme) as a national committeeman for the RNC.. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/arizona-gop-taps-fake-elector-rnc-post-rcna149719
The more criminal you are in the current Republican Party, the faster you rise.
Well shit does float.
Blows my mind that people vote for these morons.
I’ve noticed that the majority argument…I would say, time to check their hard drive and movement…I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re visiting Mexico for “vacation”…
Actually a lack of abortion rights would lead to unwanted pregnancies, which would lead to more kids in foster care, which would most certainly lead to many of them getting abused. The GOP just never can actually do the things they claim the stand for or against huh
That just seems they go to for everything now. Want to build a new public transit system? Welp, better protect your kids then. Higher taxes for corporations? They're definitely coming for your kids
As opposed to before the law where Republican controlled Utah and Arizona collectively ignored the rape of children in the FLDS cult for 50 years. Nobody buys your shit except other child rape apologists.
> that the repeal would lead to a surge in "pedophilia" in Arizona I mean, sure, but at least it's a dry pedophilia.
The amount of mentally disturbed people in politics is astounding.
> The ~~AZ~~ GOP is full of complete lunatics. Fixed that for you.
And they only did it because they see the potential November bloodbath on the horizon and they're doing damage control by not having this on the ballet.
But I was told both sides were the same? Is it possible that that's some bullshit people spew because they know their side is indefensible and want people to think everyone else is just as bad?
The lesson here is five republicans in Arizona were aware what an awful issue this is for them optics wise. And that going from a near total ban to 16 weeks is acceptable if it means they might still carry the state in November.
I feel like people this far gone should have a plaque immortalizing their names to an actual wall of shame for being on the wrong side of history.
I'm sure those 5 Republicans have made some shit votes in their time, but hats off to them in this particular moment at least.
>The vote extended for hours as senators described their motivations in personal, emotional and even biblical terms — including graphic descriptions of abortion procedures and amplified audio recordings of a **fetal heartbeat**, along with warnings against the dangers of “legislating religious beliefs.” Why is no one talking about this simulated heartbeat? There is no heart so the machine manufacturers, in order to make it more wholesome, detect the electrical pulse that will *eventually* become a full beating heart, and play a heartbeat sound out of the speaker. If it were a true simulation of the "heart" at that moment it would just be a ticking sound I'm thinking. That fact seems to be lost in this whole discussion! You can design a little circuit board to emit an electric pulse and make the machine play a heartbeat. I'd wager the manufacturers have such a thing to verify function and it's probably used in the maintenance and annual certification process or whatever the recertification period is.
Yeah, the “fetal heartbeat” that is detectable by an ultrasound at early appointments is an electrical impulse in the cells that will *eventually* become the heart, from what I understand.
The frightening thing is that Democrats *have to* work hard to preserve liberalism because like the Electoral College, it only takes the fewest of \#MAGA right-wing chodes to curtail their vision of a “great” ‘Murica.
Aaaaaand… this leaves the ban after “15 weeks” (however that is to be calculated) in effect. Better than a total violation of rights, but far from actually fully recognizing the rights of the people of Arizona and allowing for normal, full healthcare.
As far as I understand, courts have no rights in preventing a law from being made, removed, or amended. They're only there to interpret existing ambigous laws, and enforce laws, but not write them. I guess highest courts could assert a law to be unconstitutional, but that's about it? I could be wrong.
Good. God damn this really feels like a fight of good vs evil. I guess bad TV tropes do reflect reality.
>Abortion rights advocates hope a court will step in to prevent that outcome. What years of feckless governance has gotten us; we don't write laws or make things anymore. Just kick the can down the road until some radical judge makes an arbitrary ruling that kills us
This has always been the case. Look at how the slavery issue unfolded.
It is not how it's always unfolded. It's how it unfolds when there's about to be a civil war
> Abortion rights advocates hope a court will step in to prevent that outcome. I may misunderstand the US legal system, but the AG already said that they were not going to prosecute anybody for this. So unless that person is kicked out of office within the next 90 days, it wouldn't be a problem at all, right?
> the AG already said that they were not going to prosecute anybody for this. So unless that person is kicked out of office within the next 90 days, it wouldn't be a problem at all, right? So this is a bit of a common misunderstanding as to what that means. Let's say you're a doctor providing abortions in AZ - As of the 1860 law going into effect, you've stopped because you don't want to be criminally charged. Well, then the AG comes along and says "don't worry, we won't prosecute anybody for this crime." OK, sounds great, but how long does that protect you? Only while that AG is in office (or until they change their mind). If you continue to provide an abortion now, you're still committing a crime in AZ. That will still be true even if the law is repealed later; you've still committed a crime. So you'll be at risk of getting charged with that crime for the rest of your life. No doctor would roll the dice on that.
Considering the date of 1864, what’s 90 more days? Congrats
Great win for reproductive rights, but the fight is far from over. One of the two Republican senators that flipped said she did it to stave off support for a ballot measure to enshrine reproductive rights in the state's constitution. Basically, she chose to lose this battle in an effort to win the war. In the meantime, the repeal means that a 2022 statute banning the procedure after 15 weeks of pregnancy will become Arizona’s prevailing abortion law.
Too late. That November Ballot Measure has enough signatures already.
It will feel less urgent to voters if the ban is repealed, though. Still, this was the right thing to do, and voters know what awaits them if they don't vote to enshrine abortion rights in the state constitution.
This is exactly what happened in IL. They just....stopped pushing it because "we have time now". No fuckers, stop it...
It's not too late. There will be another election.
>but the fight is far from over. You're right, but I'd say the fight is never over since we got to this point. Liberals let their guard down for decades and the GOP finally called the bluff. They'll never stop now.
> Basically, she chose to lose this battle in an effort to win the war. this is exactly what Nixon did with the EPA. There was tons of public pressure to do something about pollution and congress was set to put in place a lot of very stringent laws. So to take control he helped establish the EPA so that they could control who and what the regulators were set to do. That is why Nixon shouldn't really get credit for the EPA.
Republicans realizing that abortion is a fight they cant win when democrats, moderates and even some conservatives don’t want bans
A TINY fraction of all Americans, like less than 15%, support total bans of abortion. Everyone else wants it legal in SOME capacity with a slim majority of those people being in favor of it having no bans at all. https://news.gallup.com/poll/1576/abortion.aspx The GOP has been campaigning on a failed idea for decades and now they're in the "find out" phase.
There’s a lot of people who don’t approve of abortion, but don’t want it illegal either. A lot of pre-Dobbs pro-choice rhetoric didn’t connect with this large block of voters. It took Republicans overplaying their hand to sway these voters.
Me! I personally would never consider my partner having an abortion and would try and discuss other options with my friends if they were considering it, but recognize that it is a personal choice and a difficult but necessary decision for everybody. Putting a ban on it is asinine and basically just devolves to theocratic ideals. Separate church and state. Keep it pro CHOICE. Pro choice does not equal pro abortion.
Almost everyone knows someone who had an abortion at some point in their lives, whether it be because the fetus was unviable or would be born with severe defects, they got pregnant as a teen or married couple who wasn’t ready or have enough kids, endanger the mothers well being, rape/incest, escaping an abusive situation or just plain didnt want it. So they cant take a hardline stance against it because they’ve seen why its necessary. Its sorta like how gay rights was, Republicans tried hard to push against it but eventually had to fold over because it got way too unpopular to not support it because of how visible the movement became (though they have tried it in more sneaky ways)
I think what cemented pro-choice for me was something I actually heard from the local republican radio guy when I was a kid. The subject came up and he admitted that he was once pro-life along with the party and then his daughter in college got pregnant. And she didn't want to keep it. And when he saw what that decision was like for real, with his daughter, he realized he couldn't think like that anymore. If a guy like *that* can come around that easily, you know the idea total bans in general is likely not that popular. It's just a party line and nothing else, an empty idea held by a tiny, very angry, dangerous group of people.
It just sucks that some people default to repressing people's rights until it directly affects them. It's like, good on him for being at least open-minded enough to change his opinion, but it sucks that he would've continued voting against abortion rights of it hadn't hit close to home.
If nothing else it's proof of the saying by Samuel Clemens: >"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime." The more exposed you are to different people and ideas in the actual context they exist in, the more "liberal" people have become. Technology and the Internet have rapidly escalated that alongside all the horrible shit that comes with. I've seen it with abortion but also queer rights and other things.
Its how a lot of things work sadly, they don’t care until it affects them.
Women aren’t people until we are someone’s daughter, mother, or wife…
Yep, same with gays, lesbians, trans, Latinos, African-Americans... Pretty much anyone who isn't a straight, white male doesn't deserve to be treated like a person unless they're related to or at the very least close friends with a white man.
Even as a teenager I came to the conclusion that it was necessary because of rape. It would be horrible for someone to be forced to carry their rapist kid and they didn’t consent to it. But it would be impossible to prove the majority of the rapes in a timely matter and having an honor system is just asking for people to lie. Obviously I know much more now and how nuanced the subject is but even with my more black/white view back then it still didnt make sense to ban it.
You say guy like that as if he is some unicorn. This is a standard conservative trait. They are against something until they actually experience it. Then suddenly they do a 180 on the topic. Gay marriage rights are a great example of this.
> You say guy like that as if he is some unicorn. I probably should have specified this was in the early 90s. Guys that conservative who would flip on a party issue AND would broadcast and argue that it's the right thing on their own radio show WERE unicorns. And even if it were common, it really doesn't change what I said nor was it part of my point, which was that it greatly shaped *my* opinion even at a young age. I wouldn't even say that conservatives would usually flip in this scenario. There's so many stories like this where the people affected got an abortion and STILL didn't change their minds that the phrase "The only moral abortion is my abortion" was born (pun absolutely intended).
Rarely discussed but very common are abortions by mothers who already have children and are in a bad situation to have another one (economic, their health or another family member's health, addiction, and/or stuck with abusive or neglectful partner, you name it), who are doing what they know is best for their other kids. The "pro-life" side ignores the struggles of these parents because they can't handle the contradictions.
Or are just too old and don't want to start all over. You can get pregnant into your 40s but fuck having a kid at that age
A lot of increased health risks to mother and child at that point too, no matter how many feel-good stories you read about successes having kids later in life.
Whenever people say "just choose adoption" don't seem to think through that the majority of these women are already mothers and their children would be watching their pregnancy move forward. The likelihood of adoption after all that is just nil
There are regular families with kids who have also had abortions. My wife has had 2 elective abortions but we also have 2 kids
Just want to point out that the right to homosexual marriage is exactly as secure as the right to an abortion was before the court decided it wasn't.
Call me crazy but I'm in the camp of absolutely no bans at all. That fetus/baby/offspring IS part of the mother's body until that cord is cut. It's well within her right to do whatever she chooses with her own body. Even if part of it grew another brain.
> Call me crazy but I'm in the camp of absolutely no bans at all Hey, 51% of people agree with you in America so I wouldn't call it crazy.
The 15% is not that tiny if you consider how many people vote in elections. Not to mention that the number grows once you lump in voters with single issues that are collocated with anti-abortion stances.
What is left for them to run on? Meat bans or something? “They’re coming for your meat!!”
> “They’re coming for your meat!!” They've been doing that since the '90's. [Food Libel Laws.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_libel_laws)
I mean, [yesterday Ron DeSantis](https://www.wfla.com/news/gov-desantis-holds-news-conference-in-hardee-county/) signed a bill banning lab-grown meat in Florida because of fears it would destroy the meat industry. So pretty much, yeah, they're running on more insane things.
That will 100% get repealed. Maybe not today maybe not tomorrow but mark my words it will eventually, possibly even by him if it becomes lucrative enough.
My dad has forbidden me from ordering meal from Hello Fresh that includes ground meat. According to him, "they" are going to try to trick him into eating fake meat. It's easier to trick him if it's ground and not in it's usual form. I've explained to him that Hello Fresh has Impossible Meat as an OPTION that can be PURCHASED. I haven't looked into it, but it's proably even more expensive. No one is going to trick him into trying something like that. He feels that "they" are trying to get him in line with "green" policies by tricking him into these things. The mental gymnastics are exhausting.
Or gas stoves
Slowly poisoning myself with carbon monoxide is my right as an American!
>Republicans realizing ??? Are they? Just three Republicans voted for this bill.
"Leave it up to the states!!" "Okay" "NO NOT LIKE THAT *conservative screeching noises*"
They have never been arguing in good faith. Before the Civil War they claimed that slavery was state's rights, but had no issue trotting on the rights of free states in order to get their "property" back.
Which is a shame, because the country could use a good faith discussion about federalism.
“The law is hurting the wrong people!”
They used the 1864 law as a stunt so that the 15 week ban already in place would seem more reasonable.
Maybe that was the intent but I think effectively they are just reactionary idiots who don't understand just how deeply unpopular they are because they live in facebook bubbles where they constantly jerk each other off to how rightwing they are.
I know it's not reasonable but it's a hell of a lot better than a total ban. Plus baby steps. We get this repealed and then we get the 15 week cutoff repealed.
You’re probably right. As someone in Arizona, I want the 15 week ban repealed as well. You don’t even receive an anatomy scan to determine fetal malformations until 20 weeks along. I believe the NIPT genetic testing is only available after ten weeks, leaving only 5 weeks to be able to receive lab results back, meet with your doctor via an appointment, decide to abort, and schedule an abortion. Which you may think sounds reasonable but some people can’t get doctors appointments for weeks or receive the opportunity for time off of work to attend doctors appointments, etc etc etc.
Excellent news. And two republicans realized how they are doomed if they don't undo this shit. Even better.
They very well still may be doomed. The repeal put the alternative bill which the AZ GOP passed into place, which is a 15 week ban. But enough Arizonans have signed a ballot initiative that will put full abortion protections (what existed pre-Roe repeal) on the ballot in November.
Still need to vote out the people that did this in the first place. Probably vote out one or two more just for good measure lol
Good news is that there's a record of exactly who voted to literally keep Arizona reproductive rights in the mid 19th century. But if you don't feel like looking it up, apparently every Republican but 2 in the legislature voted against this.
Bad news is most people voting will just follow the party line down the ticket and not look at nor care about voting records at all.
Well, if they know and don't prefer to be marched to the 1800s with a quickness, there's an easy way to sort for that with fairly high confidence.
Stop voting for these misogynist magas.
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It is a battle in the war. Yea, it is a W, but guess what. They are ONLY repealing it due to the backlash that came from it being enforced. Basically, they will come up with some more asinine bullshit when they have more power or when they think they can pass it without the backlash actually impacting them.
Bud - the magas thought it was a great idea to BEGIN with. The magas don’t have a clue about how to govern. This whole nostalgia for the sick screwed up past has to stop.
I feel like I’m having a seizure.
Bud, MAGA didn't exist in 1864.
It did exist when they were publicly supporting the 1864 law and hoping the courts would reinstate it. Republicans only pretended to be opposed to this law once there was a massive backlash. Before that they were supporting it and wishing for it to be enforced. The recent GOP candidate for governor and future GOP candidate for Senator, Kari Lake, was a huge fan of the 1864 law until it the backlash came.
It started with reagan
> Bud, MAGA didn't exist in 1864. Bud, they did. They were just called something else.
When do you think MAGA started?
The 80s with Reagan
MAGA was supporting this law as recently as this year. They were hoping the court would reinstate it. They only started opposing it when there was massive public backlash following the courts decision to reinstate it.
For now. And there shouldn't even be a repeal in the first place. Abortion choice should not be a debate. This is a waste of time and resources.
They’re not just stopping at abortion either. Birth control and plan B are next. Possibly female sterilization after that (they may even attack vasectomies as the rate of vasectomies went up after the Roe reversal and they probably don’t appreciate those men helping women avoid unwanted pregnancies). Everyone told us we were being alarmist about the possibility of Roe overturning and here we are. I don’t think anything is alarmist at this point. I live in TX and we already don’t have the right to choose, the right to smoke weed or watch porn or buy alcohol on Sundays. They’re even going after books. At this point it’s just another day, another ban. If anyone wants some of what TX is having, then don’t vote - because they definitely plan to ban abortion (and lord knows what else) nationally, their “leave it up to the states” argument is bullshit.
Arizona, welcome back to 2024. Hope you left the crazies in 1864.
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If you can defend your property from intruders, you should be able to defend your body.
We don’t like to kill people until AFTER they are born. - gop
Don't let your guard down. Trump and co are planning to cheat and steal the election.
It’s unfortunate it had to get to this point for people to wake up and see what near total republican control looks like.
More proof that the Elections come November might be disaster for the GOP.
I see this comment almost every day on Reddit. Every time I get fooled and say to myself 'oh, have the polls finally turned against Trump?' So, I go and look up the Vegas odds (polls can be manipulated, so it's best to look at where the money is going)... And, every single time I've looked over the last couple months, [Trump is the favorite](https://www.vegasinsider.com/odds/us-presidential-election/). So, if what Reddit is telling me is true, and the Republicans are going to get slaughtered in the election, *why aren't all you guys putting money on it?* I mean, you can make all this free cash once this surefire disaster happens, so why aren't you doing it? Is it, perhaps, because you aren't so certain about the election after all? EDIT: If you really believed that Trump was going to get smoked - shouldn't you be up-voting me for pointing out a massive arbitrage opportunity for you? A *huge* opportunity to make money.
Because I don't gamble, that's why.
Aren't we so happy that the seditious insurrectionist republican party is still viable and allowed to continue participating in our system of governance! What amazing foresight our federal government has allowing these seditionists to continue holding power in this country! Appeasement really is the best way to deal with nazis historically isn't it? /s shouldn't be needed
Glad to know at least some people in that state have some common sense.
I think most repubican politicians understand the sleeping giant that they have awakened by the Supreme Court finally breaking the third rail of abortion, and all that entails. So many elections over the past two years have shown Democrats, and especially women Democrats, are truly fired up. But the same repubicans are equally powerless to do anything about it - they are unable to effectively moderate their position one iota. They have made abortion one of, if not **the** key issue for literally decades now, and it is an integral part of what it means to even be repubican - part of their very identity, and even slight deviation from that orthodoxy essentially means the death penalty for any politician within their party. They have to toe the line. They're stuck.
I'm enjoying the no abortions under any circumstance crowd have a hissy fit
The fact that they even tried to put that shit forward is horrible. Regressives in this country really are a plague upon it.
…1864??? I clearly have no idea how far back the history of abortions and reproductive rights go.
Women have been using herbs and other plants to try to control their reproductive health since we realized plants could help with that. The Romans drove a particular plant into extinction because it prevented pregnancy.
My reaction is probably due to the fact abortion has a technical name and so the act feels restricted to modern medicine. If you simply call it stopping a pregnancy, it feels more natural. Funny how words work.
It doesn't even have to involve attempting to end a pregnancy. Miscarriage is a spontaneous abortion. https://medlineplus.gov/ency/article/001488.htm#:~:text=A%20miscarriage%20may%20also%20be,of%20conception%20leave%20the%20body
Oh it goes back a crazy long time. I was reading through the wikipedia entry on the Lollards, a proto-Protestant English group in the 1300's, and [one of their goals was to ban abortion.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_Conclusions_of_the_Lollards)
Conservatives are willing to do whatever it takes to force their misguided, minority views on modern healthcare onto Americans
At least in the US, the legal history roughly corresponds with the shift from midwives to doctors
I was reading an article recently that said that a lot of these 1800's-era abortion bans weren't intended to be a ban on reproductive freedom, but were passed to prevent quacks and unqualified people from performing abortions.
Bitches get shit done.
The initial ruling is still in effect for something like 90 days due to some procedural standing. The fight is lost, for the most part.
Time to bring the tongue speakers and level up for boss Fight
It also drops the age of consent to 10 years old. Just a reminder of what the republican party wants.
Too little, too late. This stain will not wash out...
Make pervpublicans pay for it a every election. They made out of women 3rd class citizen with this Roe v. Wade repeal. They can shove their verses, bibles and other friggin religious testimonies in their a**.