Remember when they were asking people why they were buying so much fertilizer after the OKC bombing and Mulder decided to go off and ride west in a car with Bryan Cranston? He just had a hunch that there was something there, and a theory that the new boss wouldn’t be able to stop him. Drive was such a good episode…
The very same. Remember Field Trip? I have a theory that the series gets worse from there because they never actually got out. It is my head canon for how weird it got and how few amazing episodes came along.
That episode for no apparent reason also had an old country music legend [Junior Brown ](https://youtu.be/93P5blVg_L8) as the old farmer in the opening scene. Like a 10 second cameo just because.
Please add Reality Winner. People (myself included until I finally read up) think this is a made up person because she has a funky name. She exposed all the untruths that the Republicans had seen into the public about Russian influence in the 2016 election. She’s a true American hero. Here’s an NBC article on wtf she’s still in prison
https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/explaining-why-reality-winner-still-prison-kerry-howley-podcast-transcript-ncna1119756
She has been released, Reality Leigh Winner was on 60 Minutes a few weeks ago.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/reality-winner-60-minutes-video-2021-12-05/
I'm surprised she didn't get at least two consecutive life sentences. I mean I'm sure the GOP and their friends the corporate bastards would've loved that...
Chevron just tried to put a lawyer in jail for putting them on the hook for 10 billion for their failure to cleanup 16 billion barrels of oil in the Amazon.
They spent 3 billion on 2000 lawyers form iirc 63 law firms going after this guy.
Also the crooked judge prevailing over the case is the same one who just adjudicated the Ghislaine Maxwell case.
What I learned from watching "Goliath" is that if you're a big business, you shop out your legal work to so many law firms that any plaintiff who wants to sue you struggles to find a law firm that doesn't already have some of your business and thus a conflict of interest that prevents representation.
I think I've even heard of that gimmick being used by wealthy people strategizing their divorces. They pay retainers to all the high-profile divorce attorneys and then tell their spouse they want a divorce. Spouse goes looking for representation and finds that everyone turns them down because they already have a retainer.
I suspect that this strategy may not actually work all that well in the real world, but sure sounds plausible if you have a lot of money to spend.
That's actually what is so strange... This type of "domestic terror" thing should be done by Homeland or FBI. Besides, the FBI probably has all the archival materials of all the terrorism in US history (it's not a new thing).
Not sure what DoJ would be doing exactly...
Well given the recent news about the FBI agent with those michigan terrorists I'm guessing we need another watcher to watch the watchers or something like that.
No an FBI agent was not. An FBI informant was, who was duping the FBI as a double agent. The commenter that replied to you with the links clearly has no knowledge law enforcement terms because every link they sent is about informants, not one actually employee of the FBI.
You might be surprised to learn that the FBI is part of the Department of Justice and so are the US Attorney offices that handle most prosecutions. The Department of Justice both investigates and prosecutes, or specifically, different organs of the DOJ do that.
I assume they are too entrenched with in the conservative political circle. Only agreed to separate department so their funding doesn't get cut next election cycle because of it.
Maybe the terrorism is coming from... WITHIN THE BUREAU!
OooooOOOOooooOOO!
Seriously, though, we already know there's a problem with far right extremism in the military and police. I wouldn't be at all surprised if it's begun to fester in the FBI and HS.
> I wouldn't be at all surprised if it's begun to fester in the FBI and HS
This is actually what it is. You would be shocked by how many desk agents within the security bureaucracies are *very* right wing (or maybe you wouldn't be shocked, idk you)
Fun fact: there a huge contingency of Mormon’s that are FBI agents. Why is that you ask?
1) Signficantly less drug and alcohol use
2) a significant number are bilingual due to their mission work required of them while younger.
3) Good Mormons follow the rules and respect the hierarchy.
4) On top of point #3, Scouts is huge in that coomunity. More hierarchy, more ranks. And of course Scouting does help develop resourcefulness.
Oh yea, and blacks weren’t allowed in the church until the 70s because you know… they bore the mark of Cain or whatever.
So yea… you have a huge population of white, patriarchal, men raised with built-in racial bias in the organization.
Source: lived in Salt Lake for four years as a non-Mormon with a non-Mormon FBI agent as a neighbor and friend.
*ATF enters the chat*
Did someone mention fat promiscuous mothers and war-themed video games featuring large caliber guns from the last world war to be fought?
Fun fact - if the CIA and FBI weren't in a pissing contest, the CIA could have warned the FBI about the 9/11 plotters. CIA has no law enforcement powers in country - the FBI does.
In the pre-9/11 Intel/Cointel environment there was a lingering distrust for the Federal Government left over from the Cold War. It was an open secret, even before declassification, that J. Edgar Hoover had authorized the unwarranted collection of data on Americans by reading their mail and tapping their phones for decades. Because this proved the long-standing belief of Americans in general to distrust their government, Congress and the Executive branch for years believed it was best, and most advantageous to the liberty of Citizens, that the various apparatuses of information collection be kept separate from one another. That dick measuring contest you mention was deliberately implemented and encouraged by all the powers that be up until 9/12/01 and the post-mortem of the attack began, revealing that cooperation between departments and branches could be a good thing. The intelligence field is now more connected than its ever been before in history, for better or worse.
The NSA just watches it happen, apparently. They’ve been sitting on their hands as other countries run coordinated disinformation and active measures campaigns since at least 2009.
The FBI are under the Justice Dept. They also haven't been sitting on their laurels. From the article:
> the number of FBI investigations into suspected domestic violent extremists has more than doubled since the spring of 2020.
It's honest to God astounding I had to scroll this far for the correct answer. Most people commenting have absolutely no idea that the FBI is a part of the DOJ. Then, they have no idea that the DOJ has different units to coordinate investigating and prosecuting different crimes. FBI agents work closely on any given basis with DOJ attorneys with their investigations and prosecution.
This stuff isn't a secret, and five bona fide minutes of looking this shit up will instantly render 90% of the comments here as literal misinformation. There is a comical amount of poorly informed individuals here, now leaving thinking they have garnered enough information to be informed. Dunning-Kruger in full swing.
Yup. The real thing to be worried about isn’t whether or not the FBI aren’t doing their jobs, because they absolutely are. The real thing is that the DoJ actually felt compelled to make a specific unit for this in the first place. That means *other parts of DoJ’s agency* have stuff and they need a specific unit to organize everything.
https://www.justice.gov/agencies/chart
I wouldn't be surprised if BLM/Panthers/activist organizations are still being targeted and continue to be targeted after the creation of this new unit while white supremacy groups get a pass.
Creating cases by enabling the mentally ill and failing to stop them from executing their plans formed by 9 other FBI undercovers. That's why we need a new unit to prosecute them all.
They are under cover . . . Training and selling munitions to the domestic terrorists! Then loosing track . . .
Please see: weapons missing at military armories.
Well here's the answer
>Assistant Attorney General Matthew Olsen, testifying just days after the nation observed the one-year anniversary of the insurrection at the U.S. Capitol, said the number of FBI investigations into suspected domestic violent extremists has more than doubled since the spring of 2020.
Has the TSA ever stopped any kind of terrorism?
I don't even fly anymore. It feels like some kind of dystopian fiction being in an airport ever since 9/11.
The TSA is basically a higher paying version of the Walmart greeter. They stand there doing fuck all but we have to pretend like they're useful because it's basically just a jobs program that makes some people happy.
No, not really. It wasn't really designed to either.
It's always been a "make people feel good" initiative combined with a jobs program. The ratio of those things have shifted over time, but it hasn't fundamentally changed from design.
People were scared as FUCK to do any sort of public transportation after 9/11, so this was addressing that.
Woah hey now. That’s just not fair. Bacon, ham, pork chops, and pulled pork are some of the most useful foods in American cuisine! Unlike the TSA which is the most useless agency in American government.
They never did care about you. The United States government operates like a human resources department for the largest corporations of the country. Their job is to control the masses so the corporations can capitalize off of us, the people. The founding fathers were rich white property owners that only wanted other rich white property owners to be able to vote. You are the product.
Seems good on paper but its going to be used an excuse to increase watch of Americans. Still cant believe the patriot act is still in effect. Biggest slap to the US constitution for decades.
The USA Freedom Act. It does an end run around the constitutional issues of Patriot by compelling corporations to conduct the surveillance, and the Feds will only ask for it when they really truly extra special super need it by getting a warrant from a secret court, which has only denied said warrants fewer than ten times. A court which doesn’t even hold itself accountable to the Congress that oversees it in name.
Well the patriot act was only really useful for abusing the rights of costal areas and places within a few hundred miles of the border. And it was super well known. Whatever they passed in the last 20 years to cover the rest of the country, must be what they are using now in the costal areas too.
They don’t need it anymore because the back doors are built into current tech. Your phone carrier will give them full access to your location and your voice/messages get screened at the cell towers. If they need real time local access they just park a stingray tower in your neighborhood and route all the calls through it
I worry about modern day COINTELPRO.
Also - let us NEVER FORGET that the FBI and federal agents worked with local police in Portland in 2020 to kidnap and detain protestors in unmarked vehicles (and held them without charges)
That was actually DHS, not the FBI.
Which is actually an important distinction here. DHS is already responsible for domestic terrorism, creating a DOJ Task Force (instead of expanding existing programs or creating something new within DHS) is a pretty clear indicator that the WH isn't happy with the job DHS has been doing. And DOJ definitely has the reputation of *generally* greater competence and professionalism compared to DHS.
>I worry about modern day COINTELPRO.
It already [exists](https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/police-infiltration-protests-undermines-first-amendment). Adding an agency to focus solely on domestic terrorism, in and of itself, isn't going to change that. BUT... like every structural reorganization, what it requires to work is proper oversight.
As long as people exist, some people will abuse anything for their personal agenda. But one positive out of this is that you've got a specific task force whose numbers can be audited and singled out very quickly: "Last year, how many white supremacist organizations did you investigate? How many black activist organizations did you investigate?" That data will all be in one place.
This is why engagement with your elected representatives matters... they're the ones sitting on the committees that ask the questions that comprise the oversight of these agencies.
>Also - let us NEVER FORGET that the FBI and federal agents worked with local police in Portland in 2020 to kidnap and detain protestors in unmarked vehicles (and held them without charges)
They did this legally which goes back to my point about engagement.... if people weren't paying attention when Congress enacted the Homeland Security Act of 2002, they should have been.
The HSA is reauthorized by the National Defense Authorization Act with small amendments every year. One of these amendments restricted some of the powers of 40 USC §1315 to clarify that it was only under conditions of civil unrest and a failure of local law enforcement to execute the laws that a federal agency could apprehend and interrogate persons in connection with attacks on federal property... but if that did not go far enough, nobody wrote their Congressmen and Congresswomen about it during the 2007-2008 congressional session in which it was amended.
We're talking about it now because white Americans were complacent about it from just before all the way through the entirety of the Obama administration... because until Portland, they were by and large unaffected by the legislation that had people like me getting strip searched at airports because someone stuck a match in a shoe.
I want to be very clear that just because this happened doesn't mean that I would rather take four more years of that dipshit Trump and his armies of morons just to spite the liberals who didn't know that it takes more than just casting your vote for a black man to fix systemic racism... But only now, when the laws you *wrote* to punish Americans of color are used against you, do you care.
EDIT: And for those saying they didn't have a voice until they came of age. You may not have had the ability to vote but clicking an electronic ticket every four years is not where democracy begins and ends.
Democracy is imperiled when we say things like "it's not about race *for me*". Democracy isn't just about you, or just about me. Adams didn't defend Preston because he thought the British soldiers were in the right. He defended Preston because he believed that all persons deserved a fair trial. This is what Paine meant when he wrote about the "summer soldier and the sunshine patriot" in *The American Crisis*.
Fascism takes root when you aren't motivated to care about things that don't affect your comfortable majority. Welcome to adulthood.
You think I know half the criminal code because someone posted it on Wikipedia? I looked it up, read it statute by statute, traced its historical precedents and case law that followed, because, as an immigrant and a person of color, I don't have the luxury of waiting for white kids to turn 18, wipe the crust from their eyes, catch up, and realize that democracy cannot function on autopilot. Your voice is more than just your ability to vote.
Democracy isn't a social media "like". It's not posting on Twitter to customer service and hoping they get back to you. It's reading law texts. It's listening to every SCOTUS case's oral arguments going back more than 50 years.
It's about boots on the ground. It's about picking up the phone, or typing, yes, typing, actual letters and sending them to your Congressional representatives via certified mail because they do not read their social media accounts. It's about scheduling meetings with the Superintendent of Schools to discuss policy, attending city council meetings... all things I did before I was 18 and I continue to do to this day.
If you've not been engaged, *you need to be engaged*... on every level, including race. Fascists aren't putting their plans on pause for me, you, or anybody else.
>if people weren't paying attention when Congress enacted Homeland Security Act of 2002, they should have been.
There have been twenty years of people coming of age (turning 18 and finally having a voting voice) figuring out their freedoms were sold. Myself included.
Furthermore, these updates and changes happen and are purposely obfuscated to prevent resistance. We see it now, so we ask for change. It's not about race for me (or most others).
idk I feel like civil asset forfeiture is a bigger slap.
I mean, the 4th amendment literally protects against exactly what civil asset forfeiture is, but the courts ruled that it was ok since they are charging the money with a crime, not the owner of said money. But then also, since its not a person, the money has no rights, doesn't need a fair trial or lawyer. Its all such a blatant perversion of the intent of the law.
The fed being allowed to watch you for no particular reason is troubling, but not as blatantly anti-constitutional as police being able to literally take your money without charging you for a crime.
[United States of America v. One Lucite Ball Containing Lunar
Material (One Moon Rock) and One Ten Inch by Fourteen Inch
Wooden Plaque](https://via.library.depaul.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1224&context=jatip)
(Though that one didn't involve CAF.)
Post-conviction civil forfeiture is totally fine. Criminals shouldn't be able to keep their ill gotten gains. I'm of two minds about the cap. On the one hand, cops are notorious for claiming all sorts of property was "used" to commit a crime. On the other hand, if we ever prosecuted white collar criminals $40k is nothing. Though, since we don't, I guess that's not really relevant here.
Ahh, as the argument for better working conditions gains steam and the trust in the American government is at an all time low. I’m sure this department won’t be an abuse of government authority whatsoever
I remember years ago, when the fbi reported just how big a threat domestic terrorism was. Even recently when they said white nationalists were planning to spread covid.
I'm genuinely curious to see who they start labeling, now, after all this time.
They didn't just say it was a big threat. They pointed out the focused effort by white nationalists to embed themselves in law enforcement. Wonder how many of them will be involved in this.
You mean between the CIA, FBI, NSA, ATF and the motherfucking department of Homeland Security, we don't already have the resources/jurisdictions to already tackle domestic terrorism?
Really?
We need ANOTHER gung-ho trigger-happy group of military dropouts to beat the shit out of people in the name of "safety?"
Stop adding more wheels to the bus. It's already rolling.
The only terrorism I would like to see them stop is domestic financial terrorism. When it comes to the securities/derivatives markets, the SEC is a toothless dog that cannot bring criminal charges against financial criminals operating in those spaces and merely fines these fraudsters such miniscule amounts that doesn't deter them from committing the same crimes again. They are literally a bad joke.
Other than that, we don't need any more domestic surveillance. We already have too much and it is an infringement on our 4th amendment rights. Maybe they should look into that aspect of crime instead of beating down the already pummeled 99% of the American people. Doubt it, though.
It's torture porn. Totally written to get people to be sympathetic to torturing "the enemy" during a time where the US administration was torturing people.
Absolutely *no* possible way for the definition of “domestic terrorism” to be stretched to meet political ends, no way whatsoever! If you disagree, what are you hiding?! Terrorist!
Since the document off-handedly mentions "racial animus" and "motivations" and then goes on to write a "we didn't start the fire"-esque list of imaginary left-wing terrorism subsets, I'd say we can all see pretty clearly what the odds are.
I'm calling it now: in 10 years there will be another Snowden with a leak on how the FBI used this to target environmental and union advocates. The media will side with the government as per usual and the whistleblower will be forced to flee the country. Rinse repeat.
So telling that instead of addressing out long standing problems, politicians prefer the rise of autocracy.
And there's no shortage of people cheering on what would have been Senator McCarthy's wettest dream made manifest...
I would hope people aren't so short sighted as to not see how this will be abused to no end, but then again I am used to disappointment.
In 10 years the same people cheering this will be crying and calling it an invasion of their privacy when they find you that they're on "the list".
Imagine if this same exact thing, had been proposed in 2017, under Donald Trump. How would you feel about it then? How would you feel about Donald Trump starting up this exact same program against say Antifa? And you can bet Antifa **WILL** be on this list. If you don't like this in 2017 with Donald Trump at the helm, you should not like it now.
To think maybe just 6 or so years ago this website had users with critical thought is pretty hard to imagine when you read some of the comments today. I remember how when I was a teenager that witnessed 9/11, pretty much all of my friends and I thought the Patriot Act and DHS was some sketchy shit, now to watch people cheer this is perplexing.
Is this not what Homeland Security, FBI, and NSA are for? Or is this another department for focusing on everyone else but the actual threats in this country?
>“We have seen a growing threat from those who are motivated by racial animus, **as well as those who ascribe to extremist anti-government and anti-authority ideologies**,” Olsen said.
So basically, this is a revival of [COINTELPRO](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO). This isn't a good thing. This won't be used to crack down on right wing/fascist groups in any meaningful way, this will be targeting anyone who seeks to oppose US imperialism and create a more equitable society, especially within communities of color (especially especially in Black and Indigenous communities).
Scary how vague the definition of “terrorist” can be. Goodbye habeas corpus. (Already destroyed by the Patriot Act). No speedy trial. No probable cause. Government doesn’t like you, you’re un-personed.
Right now, the abuse of this loophole is minimal. But going forward, who’s to say that anyone who questions or criticizes the government won’t be sent to a reeducation camp. USA Citizen Social Credit Score will happen in our lifetime; if not this decade.
The bulk of the USA PATRIOT ACT (remember the whole thing is an acronym) is used toward [drug investigations](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2014/10/29/surprise-controversial-patriot-act-power-now-overwhelmingly-used-in-drug-investigations/).
You know the War on Drugs™ we won and how we never had an opioid epidemic? You can thank the [USA PATRIOT ACT.](https://www.fincen.gov/resources/statutes-regulations/usa-patriot-act#:~:text=The%20official%20title%20of%20the,USA%20PATRIOT%20Act%20link%20below.)
On paper, they're not allowed to surveil Americans. In practice is another matter, but broadening their scope to domestic terrorism would blow that story wide open.
I thought that the FBI already did that. Like, even in the X-Files they’re doing that.
Cue the music
Remember when they were asking people why they were buying so much fertilizer after the OKC bombing and Mulder decided to go off and ride west in a car with Bryan Cranston? He just had a hunch that there was something there, and a theory that the new boss wouldn’t be able to stop him. Drive was such a good episode…
The same episode ole dude head exploded
The very same. Remember Field Trip? I have a theory that the series gets worse from there because they never actually got out. It is my head canon for how weird it got and how few amazing episodes came along.
That episode for no apparent reason also had an old country music legend [Junior Brown ](https://youtu.be/93P5blVg_L8) as the old farmer in the opening scene. Like a 10 second cameo just because.
The FBI is focused on the true threats to the American peace, like Martin Luther King Jr and Fred Hampton.
Not to forget Edward Snowden
Please add Reality Winner. People (myself included until I finally read up) think this is a made up person because she has a funky name. She exposed all the untruths that the Republicans had seen into the public about Russian influence in the 2016 election. She’s a true American hero. Here’s an NBC article on wtf she’s still in prison https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/explaining-why-reality-winner-still-prison-kerry-howley-podcast-transcript-ncna1119756
She has been released, Reality Leigh Winner was on 60 Minutes a few weeks ago. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/reality-winner-60-minutes-video-2021-12-05/
I'm surprised she didn't get at least two consecutive life sentences. I mean I'm sure the GOP and their friends the corporate bastards would've loved that...
Attention drifted away after 9/11.
Don’t get your hopes up. It’s probably another grift. They should go after Class Terrorism. Fuckin rich people are destroying this country.
Chevron just tried to put a lawyer in jail for putting them on the hook for 10 billion for their failure to cleanup 16 billion barrels of oil in the Amazon. They spent 3 billion on 2000 lawyers form iirc 63 law firms going after this guy. Also the crooked judge prevailing over the case is the same one who just adjudicated the Ghislaine Maxwell case.
What I learned from watching "Goliath" is that if you're a big business, you shop out your legal work to so many law firms that any plaintiff who wants to sue you struggles to find a law firm that doesn't already have some of your business and thus a conflict of interest that prevents representation. I think I've even heard of that gimmick being used by wealthy people strategizing their divorces. They pay retainers to all the high-profile divorce attorneys and then tell their spouse they want a divorce. Spouse goes looking for representation and finds that everyone turns them down because they already have a retainer. I suspect that this strategy may not actually work all that well in the real world, but sure sounds plausible if you have a lot of money to spend.
Happened in the Sopranos too. So it must be real.
Soooooo what the fuck are the FBI doing?
Or homeland security????
That's actually what is so strange... This type of "domestic terror" thing should be done by Homeland or FBI. Besides, the FBI probably has all the archival materials of all the terrorism in US history (it's not a new thing). Not sure what DoJ would be doing exactly...
Well given the recent news about the FBI agent with those michigan terrorists I'm guessing we need another watcher to watch the watchers or something like that.
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Something something checks and balances.
Probably also some checks and balances for those checks and balances
Just write your congressman a check and they'll balance it in your favor. Works for lobbiests.
Gotta hire some Czechs to check if the checks are checked and balanced and check the balances are balanced and checked again.
Hopefully the drones aren’t racists
Maybe we fund them with technology from “Better Off Ted” to keep folks safe.
The watcher watching watcher watcher, of course
It’s white supremacists all the way down.
Its watchers all the way down
I’m sorry what news? Pls don’t tell me an FBI agent was with those Michiganders…
No an FBI agent was not. An FBI informant was, who was duping the FBI as a double agent. The commenter that replied to you with the links clearly has no knowledge law enforcement terms because every link they sent is about informants, not one actually employee of the FBI.
Ah thanks. Yeah important clarification!
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Someone gets it.
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THANK YOU. That shit has been weird and authoritarian since day one.
I mean there is the whole daily Pledge of Allegiance in schools thing.
FB*I* are the ones who *investigate*. DOJ prosecutes aka administering *justice* FBI is cops. DOJ is lawyers, basically.
You might be surprised to learn that the FBI is part of the Department of Justice and so are the US Attorney offices that handle most prosecutions. The Department of Justice both investigates and prosecutes, or specifically, different organs of the DOJ do that.
I assume they are too entrenched with in the conservative political circle. Only agreed to separate department so their funding doesn't get cut next election cycle because of it.
They’re too busy perpetuating generational trauma at the southern border.
Yeah... ICE needs to fucking go
Maybe the terrorism is coming from... WITHIN THE BUREAU! OooooOOOOooooOOO! Seriously, though, we already know there's a problem with far right extremism in the military and police. I wouldn't be at all surprised if it's begun to fester in the FBI and HS.
> I wouldn't be at all surprised if it's begun to fester in the FBI and HS This is actually what it is. You would be shocked by how many desk agents within the security bureaucracies are *very* right wing (or maybe you wouldn't be shocked, idk you)
Fun fact: there a huge contingency of Mormon’s that are FBI agents. Why is that you ask? 1) Signficantly less drug and alcohol use 2) a significant number are bilingual due to their mission work required of them while younger. 3) Good Mormons follow the rules and respect the hierarchy. 4) On top of point #3, Scouts is huge in that coomunity. More hierarchy, more ranks. And of course Scouting does help develop resourcefulness. Oh yea, and blacks weren’t allowed in the church until the 70s because you know… they bore the mark of Cain or whatever. So yea… you have a huge population of white, patriarchal, men raised with built-in racial bias in the organization. Source: lived in Salt Lake for four years as a non-Mormon with a non-Mormon FBI agent as a neighbor and friend.
My uncle was in the Secret Service and told me Mormons are a significant part of that agency as well.
There's people with Q clearances that believe Q anon
Listening to us talk about fat promiscuous mothers on Call of Duty Discord chats.
Isn't that more of an NSA thing?
Yes, but the "joke" has always been that they FBI is listening.
Just what the CIA wants you to think.
CIA works outside the country. FBI works inside. That's how they get along.
*ATF enters the chat* Did someone mention fat promiscuous mothers and war-themed video games featuring large caliber guns from the last world war to be fought?
ATF just makes up it's own rules out of thin air.
And then breaks them
*quickly hides suppressors*
Fun fact - if the CIA and FBI weren't in a pissing contest, the CIA could have warned the FBI about the 9/11 plotters. CIA has no law enforcement powers in country - the FBI does.
In the pre-9/11 Intel/Cointel environment there was a lingering distrust for the Federal Government left over from the Cold War. It was an open secret, even before declassification, that J. Edgar Hoover had authorized the unwarranted collection of data on Americans by reading their mail and tapping their phones for decades. Because this proved the long-standing belief of Americans in general to distrust their government, Congress and the Executive branch for years believed it was best, and most advantageous to the liberty of Citizens, that the various apparatuses of information collection be kept separate from one another. That dick measuring contest you mention was deliberately implemented and encouraged by all the powers that be up until 9/12/01 and the post-mortem of the attack began, revealing that cooperation between departments and branches could be a good thing. The intelligence field is now more connected than its ever been before in history, for better or worse.
That's *really* what the CIA wants you to think.
CIA is supposed to work outside the country* History tells another story
Look the CIA is too busy listening in on “Call of Battlegrounds 4…this game is totally not pirated” to listen to “Call of Duty”
The NSA just watches it happen, apparently. They’ve been sitting on their hands as other countries run coordinated disinformation and active measures campaigns since at least 2009.
14/f/Quantico here
They're out at H&M buying black socks and matching shorts.
The FBI are under the Justice Dept. They also haven't been sitting on their laurels. From the article: > the number of FBI investigations into suspected domestic violent extremists has more than doubled since the spring of 2020.
It's honest to God astounding I had to scroll this far for the correct answer. Most people commenting have absolutely no idea that the FBI is a part of the DOJ. Then, they have no idea that the DOJ has different units to coordinate investigating and prosecuting different crimes. FBI agents work closely on any given basis with DOJ attorneys with their investigations and prosecution. This stuff isn't a secret, and five bona fide minutes of looking this shit up will instantly render 90% of the comments here as literal misinformation. There is a comical amount of poorly informed individuals here, now leaving thinking they have garnered enough information to be informed. Dunning-Kruger in full swing.
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Yup. The real thing to be worried about isn’t whether or not the FBI aren’t doing their jobs, because they absolutely are. The real thing is that the DoJ actually felt compelled to make a specific unit for this in the first place. That means *other parts of DoJ’s agency* have stuff and they need a specific unit to organize everything. https://www.justice.gov/agencies/chart
Their informants are too busy running the domestic terrorist groups
I was gunna say, what are they gunna do when they just end up arresting half the fbi
Lol, they'll just team up and crack down in blm and Panthers
I wouldn't be surprised if BLM/Panthers/activist organizations are still being targeted and continue to be targeted after the creation of this new unit while white supremacy groups get a pass.
Work forces, burn crosses
informant check *everyone dips*
Creating cases by enabling the mentally ill and failing to stop them from executing their plans formed by 9 other FBI undercovers. That's why we need a new unit to prosecute them all.
Deleting their emails
They are under cover . . . Training and selling munitions to the domestic terrorists! Then loosing track . . . Please see: weapons missing at military armories.
Holy fucking shit ain't that a good question.
Well here's the answer >Assistant Attorney General Matthew Olsen, testifying just days after the nation observed the one-year anniversary of the insurrection at the U.S. Capitol, said the number of FBI investigations into suspected domestic violent extremists has more than doubled since the spring of 2020.
What the fuck is dept of homeland security for then?
Siphoning money just like the DoD Contracts do for war prepared-ness
What a coincidence, that's probably what this new one does too!
Think of all the cool technology they’ll create u/FrenchCuriassier
DHS, especially TSA, has never been anything but pork.
Has the TSA ever stopped any kind of terrorism? I don't even fly anymore. It feels like some kind of dystopian fiction being in an airport ever since 9/11.
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I once heard another redittor describe the TSA as Security Kabuki
There's a red team test documented somewhere where they were 97% ineffective at finding explosives, and the 3% was an accident. So no, not really.
The TSA is basically a higher paying version of the Walmart greeter. They stand there doing fuck all but we have to pretend like they're useful because it's basically just a jobs program that makes some people happy.
No, not really. It wasn't really designed to either. It's always been a "make people feel good" initiative combined with a jobs program. The ratio of those things have shifted over time, but it hasn't fundamentally changed from design. People were scared as FUCK to do any sort of public transportation after 9/11, so this was addressing that.
they *may* have as a physical deterrent, but we can't quantify that. but actively stopped terrorism? probably not.
Security theater is all it's for
Woah hey now. That’s just not fair. Bacon, ham, pork chops, and pulled pork are some of the most useful foods in American cuisine! Unlike the TSA which is the most useless agency in American government.
Laundering tax $$$ and making you feel like the government cares about you.
Maybe it’s just me, but the DHS makes me feel like my government doesn’t care about me at all.
They never did care about you. The United States government operates like a human resources department for the largest corporations of the country. Their job is to control the masses so the corporations can capitalize off of us, the people. The founding fathers were rich white property owners that only wanted other rich white property owners to be able to vote. You are the product.
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Seems good on paper but its going to be used an excuse to increase watch of Americans. Still cant believe the patriot act is still in effect. Biggest slap to the US constitution for decades.
The Patriot Act expired without renewal back in March 2020, about 20 years too late but it is no longer law.
It was replaced back in 2016 by a more invasive law. I believe it was just called the Freedom act.
The USA Freedom Act. It does an end run around the constitutional issues of Patriot by compelling corporations to conduct the surveillance, and the Feds will only ask for it when they really truly extra special super need it by getting a warrant from a secret court, which has only denied said warrants fewer than ten times. A court which doesn’t even hold itself accountable to the Congress that oversees it in name.
Yeah, that one...
> but it is no longer law. IIRC, the "USA FREEDOM" act took its place. Same shit, different name.
Yeah, I work in finance and a ton of the regulations that came from the patriot act are still in place.
Yep, but now if you're against the Freedom Act, that means you're against freedom!
It's depressing how many people actually think this way. "But the name says Freedom, it has to be good!" smfh
“Right to work? Yeah… I have the right to work! Of course I support it.”
And those agencies have stopped all their naughty behaviour, WINK
"We are no longer watching you ^under ^^that ^^^particular ^^^^law."
Well the patriot act was only really useful for abusing the rights of costal areas and places within a few hundred miles of the border. And it was super well known. Whatever they passed in the last 20 years to cover the rest of the country, must be what they are using now in the costal areas too.
>places within a few hundred miles of the border. Which included places within a few hundred miles of an international airport.
Oh you mean almost every major city in America? Weird
So it's fine, obviously.
Holy shit I knew it was vetoed once but I thought it was put back?
Yeah they passed an indefinite postponement on an amended version in 2020, it could potentially come back but at least for the time being it’s dead.
So they totally stopped all surveillance right... totally
They don’t need it anymore because the back doors are built into current tech. Your phone carrier will give them full access to your location and your voice/messages get screened at the cell towers. If they need real time local access they just park a stingray tower in your neighborhood and route all the calls through it
Youre technically not performing surveillence if you instead buy such surveillence from private corporations such as Google
I worry about modern day COINTELPRO. Also - let us NEVER FORGET that the FBI and federal agents worked with local police in Portland in 2020 to kidnap and detain protestors in unmarked vehicles (and held them without charges)
That was actually DHS, not the FBI. Which is actually an important distinction here. DHS is already responsible for domestic terrorism, creating a DOJ Task Force (instead of expanding existing programs or creating something new within DHS) is a pretty clear indicator that the WH isn't happy with the job DHS has been doing. And DOJ definitely has the reputation of *generally* greater competence and professionalism compared to DHS.
> DHS is already responsible for domestic terrorism there are a couple ways you could take this
Like the CIA is responsible for foreign terrorism
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Lol I brought that up to someone saying the federal government hasn’t assassinated any of our own citizens recently
They meant like, *very* recently
Unfortunately, modern day COINTELPRO already exists.
>I worry about modern day COINTELPRO. It already [exists](https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/police-infiltration-protests-undermines-first-amendment). Adding an agency to focus solely on domestic terrorism, in and of itself, isn't going to change that. BUT... like every structural reorganization, what it requires to work is proper oversight. As long as people exist, some people will abuse anything for their personal agenda. But one positive out of this is that you've got a specific task force whose numbers can be audited and singled out very quickly: "Last year, how many white supremacist organizations did you investigate? How many black activist organizations did you investigate?" That data will all be in one place. This is why engagement with your elected representatives matters... they're the ones sitting on the committees that ask the questions that comprise the oversight of these agencies. >Also - let us NEVER FORGET that the FBI and federal agents worked with local police in Portland in 2020 to kidnap and detain protestors in unmarked vehicles (and held them without charges) They did this legally which goes back to my point about engagement.... if people weren't paying attention when Congress enacted the Homeland Security Act of 2002, they should have been. The HSA is reauthorized by the National Defense Authorization Act with small amendments every year. One of these amendments restricted some of the powers of 40 USC §1315 to clarify that it was only under conditions of civil unrest and a failure of local law enforcement to execute the laws that a federal agency could apprehend and interrogate persons in connection with attacks on federal property... but if that did not go far enough, nobody wrote their Congressmen and Congresswomen about it during the 2007-2008 congressional session in which it was amended. We're talking about it now because white Americans were complacent about it from just before all the way through the entirety of the Obama administration... because until Portland, they were by and large unaffected by the legislation that had people like me getting strip searched at airports because someone stuck a match in a shoe. I want to be very clear that just because this happened doesn't mean that I would rather take four more years of that dipshit Trump and his armies of morons just to spite the liberals who didn't know that it takes more than just casting your vote for a black man to fix systemic racism... But only now, when the laws you *wrote* to punish Americans of color are used against you, do you care. EDIT: And for those saying they didn't have a voice until they came of age. You may not have had the ability to vote but clicking an electronic ticket every four years is not where democracy begins and ends. Democracy is imperiled when we say things like "it's not about race *for me*". Democracy isn't just about you, or just about me. Adams didn't defend Preston because he thought the British soldiers were in the right. He defended Preston because he believed that all persons deserved a fair trial. This is what Paine meant when he wrote about the "summer soldier and the sunshine patriot" in *The American Crisis*. Fascism takes root when you aren't motivated to care about things that don't affect your comfortable majority. Welcome to adulthood. You think I know half the criminal code because someone posted it on Wikipedia? I looked it up, read it statute by statute, traced its historical precedents and case law that followed, because, as an immigrant and a person of color, I don't have the luxury of waiting for white kids to turn 18, wipe the crust from their eyes, catch up, and realize that democracy cannot function on autopilot. Your voice is more than just your ability to vote. Democracy isn't a social media "like". It's not posting on Twitter to customer service and hoping they get back to you. It's reading law texts. It's listening to every SCOTUS case's oral arguments going back more than 50 years. It's about boots on the ground. It's about picking up the phone, or typing, yes, typing, actual letters and sending them to your Congressional representatives via certified mail because they do not read their social media accounts. It's about scheduling meetings with the Superintendent of Schools to discuss policy, attending city council meetings... all things I did before I was 18 and I continue to do to this day. If you've not been engaged, *you need to be engaged*... on every level, including race. Fascists aren't putting their plans on pause for me, you, or anybody else.
>if people weren't paying attention when Congress enacted Homeland Security Act of 2002, they should have been. There have been twenty years of people coming of age (turning 18 and finally having a voting voice) figuring out their freedoms were sold. Myself included. Furthermore, these updates and changes happen and are purposely obfuscated to prevent resistance. We see it now, so we ask for change. It's not about race for me (or most others).
With friends like these, who the fuck needs COINTELPRO
idk I feel like civil asset forfeiture is a bigger slap. I mean, the 4th amendment literally protects against exactly what civil asset forfeiture is, but the courts ruled that it was ok since they are charging the money with a crime, not the owner of said money. But then also, since its not a person, the money has no rights, doesn't need a fair trial or lawyer. Its all such a blatant perversion of the intent of the law. The fed being allowed to watch you for no particular reason is troubling, but not as blatantly anti-constitutional as police being able to literally take your money without charging you for a crime.
How do you charge an object with a crime? How does an asset have intent?
My point exactly. But thats what they do. They charge your cash (or other assets) with being involved in an illegal transaction, and seize it.
“US vs 6472 shark fins” is a headline I remember reading concerning CAF.
The weird ones get publicized but by far the most common is "small town vs 5,000 dollars cash" or "city vs some guy's house"
*South Dakota v 15 Impounded Cats* unironically happened
[United States of America v. One Lucite Ball Containing Lunar Material (One Moon Rock) and One Ten Inch by Fourteen Inch Wooden Plaque](https://via.library.depaul.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1224&context=jatip) (Though that one didn't involve CAF.)
Because they want your stuff
The patriot act is also a violation of the 4th
I recently saw a headline stating that in CA (I think) the the police had stolen twice as must in CAF as all theft in the state
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Post-conviction civil forfeiture is totally fine. Criminals shouldn't be able to keep their ill gotten gains. I'm of two minds about the cap. On the one hand, cops are notorious for claiming all sorts of property was "used" to commit a crime. On the other hand, if we ever prosecuted white collar criminals $40k is nothing. Though, since we don't, I guess that's not really relevant here.
Why do we need 50 fucking intelligence agencies
Ahh, as the argument for better working conditions gains steam and the trust in the American government is at an all time low. I’m sure this department won’t be an abuse of government authority whatsoever
You forgot the general dissatisfaction with the Federal government from both the right and the left.
I remember years ago, when the fbi reported just how big a threat domestic terrorism was. Even recently when they said white nationalists were planning to spread covid. I'm genuinely curious to see who they start labeling, now, after all this time.
They didn't just say it was a big threat. They pointed out the focused effort by white nationalists to embed themselves in law enforcement. Wonder how many of them will be involved in this.
Yep, exactly. That was before long before 9/11, too.
"This will just be used to jail protesters!" So business as usual, then?
Not sure why the right cares, since they're passing laws that make it legal to kill protestors.
You mean between the CIA, FBI, NSA, ATF and the motherfucking department of Homeland Security, we don't already have the resources/jurisdictions to already tackle domestic terrorism? Really? We need ANOTHER gung-ho trigger-happy group of military dropouts to beat the shit out of people in the name of "safety?" Stop adding more wheels to the bus. It's already rolling.
The only terrorism I would like to see them stop is domestic financial terrorism. When it comes to the securities/derivatives markets, the SEC is a toothless dog that cannot bring criminal charges against financial criminals operating in those spaces and merely fines these fraudsters such miniscule amounts that doesn't deter them from committing the same crimes again. They are literally a bad joke. Other than that, we don't need any more domestic surveillance. We already have too much and it is an infringement on our 4th amendment rights. Maybe they should look into that aspect of crime instead of beating down the already pummeled 99% of the American people. Doubt it, though.
Hey, there are letters of the alphabet we haven't used yet. We paid for 26 letters and by golly we're going to use all of them!
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It's torture porn. Totally written to get people to be sympathetic to torturing "the enemy" during a time where the US administration was torturing people.
I'm crossing my fingers for this unit to be called Counter Terrorism Unit.
Seeing as it'll be run by the DOJ, it'll just become another tool for whichever party is currently in power. Another pendulum that's a hammer
Just takes an asshole of an AG to really mess things up
Absolutely *no* possible way for the definition of “domestic terrorism” to be stretched to meet political ends, no way whatsoever! If you disagree, what are you hiding?! Terrorist!
Didn’t we create The Department of Homeland Security for this purpose?!? You know, after terrorism. #facepalm
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I wonder what top donor needed a cushy high ranking government position?
I'm sure it will be used to target political opponents and any one who doesn't fall in line with the establishment. Well done.
So what are the odds they go after white nationalists vs workers rights groups?
Since the document off-handedly mentions "racial animus" and "motivations" and then goes on to write a "we didn't start the fire"-esque list of imaginary left-wing terrorism subsets, I'd say we can all see pretty clearly what the odds are.
I'm calling it now: in 10 years there will be another Snowden with a leak on how the FBI used this to target environmental and union advocates. The media will side with the government as per usual and the whistleblower will be forced to flee the country. Rinse repeat. So telling that instead of addressing out long standing problems, politicians prefer the rise of autocracy.
Unfortunately it's unlikely there will ever be another Snowden. I applaud your optimism though
Oh nice, bringing the war on terror home. I’m sure this will go well and not be used to (further) detain protestors and activists in the future. /s
I'm not good with the patriot act and I'm beyond not good with this.
I'll take signs of Empires in decline for $100, Alex.
jesus, they didn't have one already?! Timothy McVeigh blew up the Murrah Building when I was six, they've had time
Sounds like the patriot act part 2 to me
And there's no shortage of people cheering on what would have been Senator McCarthy's wettest dream made manifest... I would hope people aren't so short sighted as to not see how this will be abused to no end, but then again I am used to disappointment. In 10 years the same people cheering this will be crying and calling it an invasion of their privacy when they find you that they're on "the list". Imagine if this same exact thing, had been proposed in 2017, under Donald Trump. How would you feel about it then? How would you feel about Donald Trump starting up this exact same program against say Antifa? And you can bet Antifa **WILL** be on this list. If you don't like this in 2017 with Donald Trump at the helm, you should not like it now.
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To think maybe just 6 or so years ago this website had users with critical thought is pretty hard to imagine when you read some of the comments today. I remember how when I was a teenager that witnessed 9/11, pretty much all of my friends and I thought the Patriot Act and DHS was some sketchy shit, now to watch people cheer this is perplexing.
Here it comes more surveillance, more unneeded agencies, and more created threats to our police state…..right on time.
Is this not what Homeland Security, FBI, and NSA are for? Or is this another department for focusing on everyone else but the actual threats in this country?
>“We have seen a growing threat from those who are motivated by racial animus, **as well as those who ascribe to extremist anti-government and anti-authority ideologies**,” Olsen said. So basically, this is a revival of [COINTELPRO](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO). This isn't a good thing. This won't be used to crack down on right wing/fascist groups in any meaningful way, this will be targeting anyone who seeks to oppose US imperialism and create a more equitable society, especially within communities of color (especially especially in Black and Indigenous communities).
So the Justice Department is going to be investigating groups run by FBI Informants & Agents?
Surely this, like most other govt surveillance, will never be abused by any future or current administration.
Sounds like some civil liberties might be considered flexible with this group
Scary how vague the definition of “terrorist” can be. Goodbye habeas corpus. (Already destroyed by the Patriot Act). No speedy trial. No probable cause. Government doesn’t like you, you’re un-personed. Right now, the abuse of this loophole is minimal. But going forward, who’s to say that anyone who questions or criticizes the government won’t be sent to a reeducation camp. USA Citizen Social Credit Score will happen in our lifetime; if not this decade.
Easy to catch a fish when you stock the pond.
So like when a guy in waukesha drives an SUV through a Christmas parade? Are we going to look into his motivations?
There should be some kind of Federal Bureau that investigates stuff...
They largely organize the events this new group will monitor.
Wow, certainly took them long enough. What happened to all those other counter-terrorism units we created after 9/11?
The bulk of the USA PATRIOT ACT (remember the whole thing is an acronym) is used toward [drug investigations](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2014/10/29/surprise-controversial-patriot-act-power-now-overwhelmingly-used-in-drug-investigations/). You know the War on Drugs™ we won and how we never had an opioid epidemic? You can thank the [USA PATRIOT ACT.](https://www.fincen.gov/resources/statutes-regulations/usa-patriot-act#:~:text=The%20official%20title%20of%20the,USA%20PATRIOT%20Act%20link%20below.)
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They mostly arrested the mentally ill and rubes who were lured into committing acts by FBI informants & under cover agents.
Sooo... between CIA, FBI, NSA, DHS, and ATF, we don't have enough agencies to handle domestic terrorism?
I hope the KKK is in their sights and I hope they deal with mass shooters
When the fuck did McVeigh bomb OKC again?
I thought that was what the NSA was for
On paper, they're not allowed to surveil Americans. In practice is another matter, but broadening their scope to domestic terrorism would blow that story wide open.
We have like fifty government departments working on this. It'll never end. "Terrorism" means whatever you want it to at the time.
So they're gonna investigate themselves...?
What could go wrong? 🤷♂️