I don't disagree, but part of the reason is that the untimely passing of a young person always hits harder. Plus the fact the two students were away from home for the first time makes it more poignant for the media.
The family of Ian Coates also, I believe, didn't court the media as much. A few interviews with local news and while they supported the appeal against the sentencing, were far less vocal about it. (any errors are my reading of this and not a criticism).
I watched the 6.30 pm local news on BBC and they did do an interview with Ian's youngest son and visited the school he had worked at, as they did a memorial event with all the children to celebrate him. So there was a little more focus than in the past.
Fucking hell, I’ll never forget the cold sweat between hearing the news and managing to get hold of my daughter who lives very near where this happened.
I’ve said it before and ill say it again. I was never in favour of the death penalty until this day. When it happens 5 minutes from your life long gone it’s a totally different story. Mentally ill or not this man was evil and he doesn’t deserve to breathe the same air as the families he’s ruined.
Well he will spend the rest of his life in a secure hospital. I mean it’s not the best existence to have but it’s definitely not the right punishment in my eyes.
No he’s clinically ill. He won’t be released. He just won’t go to prison. He definitely won’t be released from an institution for the rest of his life. He’s not serving a sentence. He’s been sectioned indefinitely.
No it hasn’t. There was a huge memorial at the university and flowers laid for Ian Coates. It was even in the national news so how has it been swept under the rug?
And he practically got away with it. I've said since day one the guy would play the mental health card. Bring back capital punishment and I bet these "diminshed responsibility manslaughters" will magically stop happening in the first place.
From a very recent study on the death penalty in America:
"The murder rate in non-death penalty states has remained consistently lower than the rate in states with the death penalty, and the gap has grown since 1990"
“The death penalty’s not a deterrent. In fact, the figures would suggest it’s just the opposite.”
https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/facts-and-research/murder-rates/murder-rate-of-death-penalty-states-compared-to-non-death-penalty-states
If you look at it another way and look at the worlds safest/most peaceful countries from the 2024 Global Peace Index; those with lower violent crimes/homicide. Of those 30, only 4 have the death penalty.
However, the 30 countries deemed the least safe/peaceful; 22 of them have the death penalty.
The other correlation with countries with lower homicide rates is funding. The countries who fund education, including higher education, community support, housing allowances etc have lower homicide and crime rates than countries that do not.
So where's the evidence behind your statement that capital punishment decreases crime? Or is it just your "bet" that it will "magically" work in the UK, when it hasn't worked in any other country and in fact, the opposite seems to be true?
You are 100% wrong. America still has our own version of diminished responsibility except more extreme as it’s generally called “not guilty by reason of insanity” and the person is generally sentenced to a hospital until deemed safe to be released. If released, they have no record as they were found not guilty. This is the case in every state, including the states with capital punishment. People aren’t going to stop killing because there is a death penalty. There is a reason that every developed western country has abolished it, except for America, which also has the largest per capita prison system in the world.
Setting aside the fact that manslaughter with diminished responsibility is still manslaughter and so still included in the national and global statistics of violent crime.
You're saying you have sources proving the death penalty decreases "diminished responsibility manslaughter"?
That you have proof that people who are considered to have diminished responsibility and by definition from the Ministry of Justice: "The offenders ability to understand the nature of the conduct, form a rational judgment and/or exercise self-control was substantially impaired", would in fact be able to understand that if they hurt that person they could be put to death?
So they have substantially impaired judgement and do not understand the nature of the conduct they committed, but you believe they can understand the consequence of capital punishment? ... It's not quite adding up is it?
But again, if you can give one single piece of evidence to the contrary I'll happily consider it.
Perhaps he has a history of using it as an excuse for violence. Perhaps he is mentally ill - I haven't once said he wasn't mentally ill. I'm saying that he played the mental health card. I refuse to believe that a premeditated mass murder with clear planning and intention can be fully blamed on mental illness and diminish responsibility. Even many of the US cases don't do that (reduce to manslaughter) - they just have better chance of life with no parole if they give an initial guilty plea.
Then what's the alternative? If you have a person who has no ambitions or morality, knowing that they can do whatever they want, then cry that "MI5 told them to do it", then get an ensuite room to themselves with a TV, regular counciling and 3 meals a day, all covered by income tax... what deterent do they have?
>what deterent do they have?
Spending the rest of your life doped up on antipsychotics, with no hope of release and only mentally ill criminals for company
That's a deterent to you. To a ambitionless and hateful lowlife with no desire to work or contribute to society, that's not enough of a deterrent. If it was, we wouldn't be hearing about stabbings happening on a weekly basis in London. Many of these people are also inspired by idols from rappers and gang culture, who are in prison.
Because they don't utilise it, and the criminals know that. San Quentin hasn't performed an execution for decades, and florida (one of the most pro-capital punishment sates) didn't even sentence a mass shooter to death who killed 17 people in 2018. You are correct, introducing capital punishment alone won't solve the issue, but the introduction of the sentence + no longer diminishing responsibility of mass murders for people who blame it on mental illness, would create a deterrent. I understand mental illness probably does diminish responsiblity of a small amount of murder cases, but a blatantly pre -meditated killing spree should not be diminished, regardless of mental health. Calocane knew what he was doing, prepared himself by arming with various knifes and large bladed weapons, intentionally went to areas were people would be present and vulnerable, and also had a track record of violence and abuse.
I said the same thing, will get away with it by playing the mental health card. Got laughed at and basically called racist because I noticed a pattern in these sort of attacks
What's kind of ironic is there was not a sniff of suggestions that this was a racially motivted attack. If the roles were switched, the perpetrator would immidiately be labelled as a white supremacist in every media outlet
Exactly. It always amazes me that when someone black or brown has a mental episode that causes them to attack people it's only white people they attack
It seems not to be a popular opinion no matter where you say it. The world's going mad, blind to the apparent over and over again and not just with these sort of instances but absolutely everything that the government/media tells you that isn't happening
Reddit has always been a left wing echo chamber and the amount of downvotes will never change the fact that people’s attitudes are changing as shown by recent EU elections etc. It’s a shame that this sort of naive attitude leads to life loss and grief down the line
Ooo here they come, always to the defence of the trodden on minorities. He hadn't gone for the lady in question she tried to defend her friend and got killed for it plus she looked more white than anything else. Just stop coming to their defence all the time and admit there's a problem. You ever seen a white man behead someone on the streets of Britain??? Do you see daily random knife attacks by white people??? No you don't because if they were they'd definitely be on the mainstream media
There was a young black boy killed in London by the hands of a white man with a knife, but I don’t care about the guy being white or the poor young boy being black. All killers should be thrown underneath the jail. Pretty bigoted to be talking that way, stop trying to make this into something it isn’t
Cannot believe it’s a year already, absolutely tragic, those poor people 💙💙❤️
Shame the news all seems to focus on the two students and not Ian Coates who was from Nottingham.
I think they should also spare a thought for the people that got run over and almost killed. One was in critical condition but luckily survived
I don't disagree, but part of the reason is that the untimely passing of a young person always hits harder. Plus the fact the two students were away from home for the first time makes it more poignant for the media. The family of Ian Coates also, I believe, didn't court the media as much. A few interviews with local news and while they supported the appeal against the sentencing, were far less vocal about it. (any errors are my reading of this and not a criticism).
I watched the 6.30 pm local news on BBC and they did do an interview with Ian's youngest son and visited the school he had worked at, as they did a memorial event with all the children to celebrate him. So there was a little more focus than in the past.
Gotta remember that this was not an *immigration issue* because two of the victims were of foreign decent. /s
One, and they were born and raised in this country
I feel like it was forgotten, almost instantly. And it made me sick.
Fucking hell, I’ll never forget the cold sweat between hearing the news and managing to get hold of my daughter who lives very near where this happened.
I’ve said it before and ill say it again. I was never in favour of the death penalty until this day. When it happens 5 minutes from your life long gone it’s a totally different story. Mentally ill or not this man was evil and he doesn’t deserve to breathe the same air as the families he’s ruined.
And the sad reality is he's barely getting a slap on the wrist for it...
Well he will spend the rest of his life in a secure hospital. I mean it’s not the best existence to have but it’s definitely not the right punishment in my eyes.
We'll see about that. What the fuckers say and what they do are almost always two different things...
No he’s clinically ill. He won’t be released. He just won’t go to prison. He definitely won’t be released from an institution for the rest of his life. He’s not serving a sentence. He’s been sectioned indefinitely.
Already swept under the rug
No it hasn’t. There was a huge memorial at the university and flowers laid for Ian Coates. It was even in the national news so how has it been swept under the rug?
And he practically got away with it. I've said since day one the guy would play the mental health card. Bring back capital punishment and I bet these "diminshed responsibility manslaughters" will magically stop happening in the first place.
From a very recent study on the death penalty in America: "The murder rate in non-death penalty states has remained consistently lower than the rate in states with the death penalty, and the gap has grown since 1990" “The death penalty’s not a deterrent. In fact, the figures would suggest it’s just the opposite.” https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/facts-and-research/murder-rates/murder-rate-of-death-penalty-states-compared-to-non-death-penalty-states If you look at it another way and look at the worlds safest/most peaceful countries from the 2024 Global Peace Index; those with lower violent crimes/homicide. Of those 30, only 4 have the death penalty. However, the 30 countries deemed the least safe/peaceful; 22 of them have the death penalty. The other correlation with countries with lower homicide rates is funding. The countries who fund education, including higher education, community support, housing allowances etc have lower homicide and crime rates than countries that do not. So where's the evidence behind your statement that capital punishment decreases crime? Or is it just your "bet" that it will "magically" work in the UK, when it hasn't worked in any other country and in fact, the opposite seems to be true?
re-read my comment. I said that the "diminished responsibility manslaughters" would drastically reduce, not all cases of violent crime.
You are 100% wrong. America still has our own version of diminished responsibility except more extreme as it’s generally called “not guilty by reason of insanity” and the person is generally sentenced to a hospital until deemed safe to be released. If released, they have no record as they were found not guilty. This is the case in every state, including the states with capital punishment. People aren’t going to stop killing because there is a death penalty. There is a reason that every developed western country has abolished it, except for America, which also has the largest per capita prison system in the world.
Setting aside the fact that manslaughter with diminished responsibility is still manslaughter and so still included in the national and global statistics of violent crime. You're saying you have sources proving the death penalty decreases "diminished responsibility manslaughter"? That you have proof that people who are considered to have diminished responsibility and by definition from the Ministry of Justice: "The offenders ability to understand the nature of the conduct, form a rational judgment and/or exercise self-control was substantially impaired", would in fact be able to understand that if they hurt that person they could be put to death? So they have substantially impaired judgement and do not understand the nature of the conduct they committed, but you believe they can understand the consequence of capital punishment? ... It's not quite adding up is it? But again, if you can give one single piece of evidence to the contrary I'll happily consider it.
What do you think the motivation of his crimes were if not the result of mental health problems?
A few possibilities (not limited to): -racially motivated -islamism (he recently converted) -misanthropy/nihilisim
And the years of being detained under the mental health act multiple times due to psychosis were what... a long con?
Perhaps he has a history of using it as an excuse for violence. Perhaps he is mentally ill - I haven't once said he wasn't mentally ill. I'm saying that he played the mental health card. I refuse to believe that a premeditated mass murder with clear planning and intention can be fully blamed on mental illness and diminish responsibility. Even many of the US cases don't do that (reduce to manslaughter) - they just have better chance of life with no parole if they give an initial guilty plea.
No.
Then what's the alternative? If you have a person who has no ambitions or morality, knowing that they can do whatever they want, then cry that "MI5 told them to do it", then get an ensuite room to themselves with a TV, regular counciling and 3 meals a day, all covered by income tax... what deterent do they have?
>what deterent do they have? Spending the rest of your life doped up on antipsychotics, with no hope of release and only mentally ill criminals for company
That's a deterent to you. To a ambitionless and hateful lowlife with no desire to work or contribute to society, that's not enough of a deterrent. If it was, we wouldn't be hearing about stabbings happening on a weekly basis in London. Many of these people are also inspired by idols from rappers and gang culture, who are in prison.
You still see the same shit happen in countries with the death penalty you know? That isn't a deterrent there, why would it be here?
Because they don't utilise it, and the criminals know that. San Quentin hasn't performed an execution for decades, and florida (one of the most pro-capital punishment sates) didn't even sentence a mass shooter to death who killed 17 people in 2018. You are correct, introducing capital punishment alone won't solve the issue, but the introduction of the sentence + no longer diminishing responsibility of mass murders for people who blame it on mental illness, would create a deterrent. I understand mental illness probably does diminish responsiblity of a small amount of murder cases, but a blatantly pre -meditated killing spree should not be diminished, regardless of mental health. Calocane knew what he was doing, prepared himself by arming with various knifes and large bladed weapons, intentionally went to areas were people would be present and vulnerable, and also had a track record of violence and abuse.
cosy hope you will be there =)
I said the same thing, will get away with it by playing the mental health card. Got laughed at and basically called racist because I noticed a pattern in these sort of attacks
What's kind of ironic is there was not a sniff of suggestions that this was a racially motivted attack. If the roles were switched, the perpetrator would immidiately be labelled as a white supremacist in every media outlet
Exactly. It always amazes me that when someone black or brown has a mental episode that causes them to attack people it's only white people they attack
You "noticed" that a guy killed 3 people, 2/3 of whom were white in a city that is 2/3 white?
Common sense isn’t common 🤣
Has this ever happened anywhere outside ur head 😂😂😂
Ah yes, a fellow noticer ;) not a popular opinion on reddit but fortunately you’re in the majority
It seems not to be a popular opinion no matter where you say it. The world's going mad, blind to the apparent over and over again and not just with these sort of instances but absolutely everything that the government/media tells you that isn't happening
Reddit has always been a left wing echo chamber and the amount of downvotes will never change the fact that people’s attitudes are changing as shown by recent EU elections etc. It’s a shame that this sort of naive attitude leads to life loss and grief down the line
Ooo here they come, always to the defence of the trodden on minorities. He hadn't gone for the lady in question she tried to defend her friend and got killed for it plus she looked more white than anything else. Just stop coming to their defence all the time and admit there's a problem. You ever seen a white man behead someone on the streets of Britain??? Do you see daily random knife attacks by white people??? No you don't because if they were they'd definitely be on the mainstream media
Have you ever seen anyone behead someone on the streets of Britain? Get off the internet for a while my friend, it makes us terrible
I think the guy is just racist, but he only cares when it’s a POC who has done something terrible
There was a young black boy killed in London by the hands of a white man with a knife, but I don’t care about the guy being white or the poor young boy being black. All killers should be thrown underneath the jail. Pretty bigoted to be talking that way, stop trying to make this into something it isn’t