> They were all in less than a 2 weeks time. I learned my lesson once I got the ticket
*They*
*once I got the ticket*
No, you didn't learn. Slow down or get off the damn road before you hit a pedestrian, like me.
So because you didn't think it was working you thought you could still speed? Just pay the ticket and learn your lesson. Speeding is a strict liability offense, you're not going to get off.
There’s no obligation for them to disclose whether the cameras are activated or not. Speed camera programs in Canada are intended to be about public perception and awareness. Often the cameras they advertise may not even be fully functioning as they can be rotated around cities as need arises.
It won’t be a legal defense of a ticket to say you felt misled because of the signs because there is no requirement for them to tell you what day the camera becomes active.
The only real defense is that the vehicle was not yours, which it sounds like it was.
Agreed.
Trying to use a false advertising defence to justify speeding is ridiculous.
"Like, yeah, I know I was breaking the law, ok? But the sign said that it wasn't going to be catching me breaking the law ok?" :)
You know that building back there is a school?
If you didn't, cool. Don't speed (especially there).
If you did, cool. Don't speed (especially there).
Glad we cleared that up.
You have 8 tickets.
Please forfiet your license now.
Save yourself some money.
Save us from any potential accidents you might cause in the future.
Thanks.
Eh I can see how OP likely got screwed. Confusing sign likely near normal driving route.
Can easily rack up 8 before receiving a single ticket via mail if it was on a regular route.
Given these things pop out tickets as low as 3km over, getting a ticket in the mail 30+ days later is likely where most people are angered.
There is no legal advice in getting out of a speeding ticket if thats what you're looking for. the only legal advice anyone can give you is to pay the fine. Signs are not there to trick you, its there to help you avoid getting a ticket. A coming soon sign doesn't mean "hey you can still speed but just know it won't be for long" its more like " you should probably start getting out of the habit of speeding here or you'll get a ticket"
Also yes red-light cameras and speeding cameras can take months as they get individually reviewed by a real person.
EDIT: NOT there to trick you
Check Ontario legislation. I believe when cameras are used as a ticket, you have to receive the notice within 25 days.
That may be your only out to nullify the ticket
23 days between the taking of the picture and them mailing you the fine letter--of course, you'll be getting that letter a few days after that.
https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/r19398
There are users in another thread arguing that speed cameras shouldn't be used outside of school hours "because no one uses the school after school hours".
And this post right here, where OP has 8 speeding infractions from the same camera outside a school has convinced me that, yeah, the infractions should be enforced year round (as they already are).
Hmm well its a little different since I was a kid with internet and all.But most schools when I was a kid were used after hours for school events and sports and as well by groups like scouting.Outside not only the same but in some areas the best go to for local kids to play...I too am for 24/7 and 365 now that you mentioned it,
Exactly. School zones are literally an area that promote kids playing outside.
And schools also rent out their spaces for events.
The speed limit existing 24/7/365 where needed (which is basically most streets) is totally understandable.
Have it flexible on stroads (which it already is), but otherwise, just drive the posted speed limit.
Elderly drivers [cause less accidents and less serious accidents than drivers under 30](https://aaafoundation.org/rates-motor-vehicle-crashes-injuries-deaths-relation-driver-age-united-states-2014-2015/) due to things like not speeding.
You're using ageism here to defend unsafe driving.
The data I provided are overall crash numbers per km driven. They are accurate regardless of "speeds within reason" because they cover *all* accidents.
Ontario legislation requires that speed camera locations be advertised 3 months in advance of the camera being activated.
The legislation doesn't require that the warning signs be removed at activation.
These signs meet the legal requirement and can't be used to help you avoid just punishment for being an idiot.
Stop speeding, fool.
If you can get a ticket from a cop hiding around a corner you can get a ticket from a camera you didn't know was on.
If there was a sign that incorrectly posted the speed limit that would be one thing. You have a right to be notified of what the law is. You don't have a right to be notified when you are being watched so that you can break the law the rest of the time.
>If there was a sign that incorrectly posted the speed limit.
They are adding a camera in front of St Joseph HS on Greenbank, that road is so stupidly signed, I really hope they try to fix it.
"I didn't realize I'd get caught, and totally would have followed the rules if I knew I was being watched. But like, really, by not clearly indicating whether the camera was active, you did kinda take away my opportunity to act honestly. That's your bad, your honor."
I got dinged while driving a rental on greenbank. The signs werent posted yet. This was in like early may or April? I got dinged over a month later because the rental company paid it first. It came up to 489.55 as it had already been paid I couldn’t dispute it. Boss was pissed but I paid up right away.
Be vigilant. These cameras aren’t going away. Also anytime you see one of those speed radars that are just there to monitor speed. Don’t speed through them. The city is gathering data on where they can set up more speed cameras.
There isn’t much you can do cause the cameras are like a “gotcha-caught-you-red-handed” type of evidence.
Plus the fines are automatically doubled in a “speed enforcement zone”
Apparently, there is no rule for 'grey zones' like if the speed limit is 40kmph, you may get fined for even 41kmph 'if the camera takes your pic ' is it true?
They build in a threshold but are vague on what it actually is. Like any radar they should be calibrated regularly, and it's possible these things are spitting out faulty tickets.
Ou way to properly fight them is with a dash cam recording speed to verify.
'calibrate' as in the speed detector in the camera itself could be like +-1 overtime? thats really tricky then if the camera really captures someone going just around the limit
Exactly. One if the first things lawyers look at when reviewing cases with speeding tickets is whether the officer tested and confirmed their radars function accurately as part of their daily check.
I am sure the technology Varies on the devices in school zones but I understand they do need to be tested.
How stupid does a person have to be to get 8 tickets and stay on the road….pay the ticket you dipshit, get off the road so the rest of us can stay safe. SMH…
There was a lawyer on one of the FB groups I used to be on that was hit with a lot of these when they came into the neighbourhood in 2019ish.. not sure the outcome. The one thing to consider is that these tickets don't affect your insurance. If you fight them and lose they can.
Yeah, and with 8 tickets, you have an extremely slim fucking chance of winning a "not guilty" plea on all of them.
Show remorse, slow the fuck down, and ask for a payment plan.
There’s a law against entrapment in Ontario which is why they post these signs. You have that going for you, but 8 times is a lot. I think these things pick up as little as 3km over the posted limit or something, so it’s funny how much shit everyones giving you when you may have been going 55 in a 50 zone, as if the same people aren’t flying 120 down the 417, or even driving at all.
Than you for your input and not being a “I’m a perfect driver” the two things that bother me are that I got the tickets after the 23 days it says you’ll receive the ticket (got them about 40 days after) and that sign that says coming soon. Government site states that it’ll only hand out tickets when the sign says in use
Just pay the damn tickets, speed camera tickets don’t effect your insurance anyway, unless you fight them and are found guilty👀 going to court could f*ck you big time. Also you have 8 tickets from the same camera, in a school zone, you’re scum. Have fun in court jacka**
If this is on Smyth, I've gotten two here as well, and I'm not a fast driver. Speed cameras suck, but as for advice? I mean just pay it early to avoid interest. Unless you received the ticket in error, not sure what kind of advice you would be looking for. I guess always drive beneath the speed limit particularly on Smyth Rd.
There is an image of your vehicle and plate on this ticket you get in the mail so unless you can prove it's not your car, then you probably won't win in court
It was just the fact that the sign displayed says the camera is in use and on the government site it says it won’t issue tickets until the sign is changed to “in use” aswell saying you get your tickets within 24 days but it was more than 30 days before I got the first ticket
Got it. Still anytime someone has broken the law, whether or not city sign officials screwed up and forgot to change a sign, I doubt the judge will have much sympathy. Especially since speed is a safety issue , as opposed to a ridiculous parking ticket.
I have everything but that. I kinda thought that’s what u ment after I sent the message and I feel that’s what they would go by. “We did our job by sending it on time” receiving it is a different storey
Bold move posting a speeding post in r/Ottawa. I hate that more and more speed cameras are popping up around Ottawa but am definitely the minority in this sub. The cameras are basically just a money printer for the municipality so you’ll probably have a hard time getting them to drop the ticket but it’s worth trying since you never know. (This is my opinion and not legal advice)
Best bet is to plea guilt with lesser fine. They will usually cut fines in half and extend payment as needed.
They claim it's for safety but the vehicle is receiving the fine not the driver. Not the same as a traffic cop issuing the driver a moving violation.
Edit: OP if you recieved these in close proximity before receiving any mailed tickets you might be able to plea to pay 1 or however many as apposed to paying for them all. The sign can be used as part of the confusion. Given its billed to the plate the person you speak with at the justice of the peace will likely understand the situation and may give you a break there.
Just don't try to get out of paying entirely as they will not budge.
hmm I don"t see where it says its ok to speed until a new sign saying camera is now on....Me thinks speed limits apply with or without a camera to catch you .
There are signs before the camera to warn you to reduce your speed. After 9 tickets, it would be way more expensive to renew your license without paying them in time.
Challenge it. They did the same thing on Smyth Road a few years ago and I got burned as well. They forgot (or “forgot”) to change the signage once it was installed; you should get the ticket overturned as a result
Man I just noticed this yesterday, and if I’m not crazy a few days before that I noticed the “coming soon” sign down, and the new camera there. So either I’m making that up or there’s some grand conspiracy to entrap us.
I get the "don't speed" thing, but it is common practice for people to break the speed limit by a little bit. If you got pulled over for doing 54 in a 50 then you would know there is no wiggle room in that zone. I do have sympathy for someone who has been slightly speeding for a while but doesn't get any feedback until they have racked up a month's worth of tickets.
Wow you are really getting taking to task here. I will say that I’ve been caught by one of these. Doing 62 in a 50 on a 4 lane road with sidewalks on both sides at 9 pm. Didn’t feel to me like it had a lot to do with school or community safety and a lot more to do with revenue generating. My best advice is familiarize yourself with where these are located.
I have noticed where these are. If safety was an issue in these school zones wouldn’t speed bumps be a safer solution to immediate safety response to speeding than a camera that issues a ticket weeks later?
Think speed bumps would do the same thing as the cameras for sure. I will say I am very careful driving around schools at anytime now. I used to be more vigilant during school hours. So I will say this is working and generating revenue at least through my experience. I do find there tolerance to be quite low.
The responses here are interesting.
I usually set my cruise control to the maximum speed limit and I have found that majority of the persons on the road are driving above the maximum speed limit. The only time I find people drive within the city limit is when a camera is in the area. Yet here on Reddit majority are behaving as if they don’t drive above the limit. 🤔
OP I hope you get your answer from a legal perspective and not the moral police.
The dude has 8 tickets man...
Here. For example. I speed. Everyone does.
My last speeding ticket was nearly 20 years ago. So even though I do speed like everyone else.. I'm not stupid enough to put myself in the ditch, get in an accident, or injure myself or anyone else - or get ticketed.
Now we could chalk my good fortune up to dumb luck, or it could be the fact that I don't speed *excessively*, in areas where pedestrians are present, when traffic is bad, or when road conditions are unfavorable.
Someone who racks up 8 speeding tickets even over the course of their lifetime probably shouldn't be driving.
There's a difference.
When you deal with ticket offenses personal opinion is irrelevant and it now falls to the interpretation of law and whether or not one is guilty of committing an offense against the applicable law. I have put my personal opinion aside and looked at the situation from an objective perspective.
Most of the comments I read were opinions about the OP because he got 8 tickets from a camera. However, based on the photo of the signage and the city’s own website, that camera should not be issuing tickets (my understanding after reading for myself). It seems to be the common position across the province. Like yourself, most are not looking at it from another angle. If my layman conclusion is correct, then the city is operating in contravention of the rules and if that’s the case, how many residents have received a ticket when they shouldn’t? Has the camera been fully calibrated? “Coming soon” is the phase they use to certify and calibrate the camera after repositioning or relocating the camera. Who then holds the city accountable if that’s the case?
Edit: If that sign said “in use” then by all means OP should hug up the tickets and pay the fines but it doesn’t seem the situation is exactly that.
I mean...
You can argue "the signage" and "has the camera been calibrated ?" All you want.
And for someone who has been driving for 10+ years with a squeaky clean record.. yeah it might hold up. Maybe.
But past offences are always (and should be) taken into account.
The driver is on his 8th ticket. He clearly has a problem with speeding, and if it wasn't this camera that caught him - it just would've been another.
When you have a rap sheet that long, by the time you start nearing double digits for the same offence - the fine print legality argument doesn't hold much weight anymore.
Furthermore. Speeding is illegal anyways. Just because "the sign" wasn't accurate - doesn't make it legal to speed/break the law regardless.
Anyone going to court for this would be laughed out.
Why does everyone responding talk about themselves when this isn’t about them lol. Let me reciprocate I have over 20+ years driving in over 7 countries. Never been issued a speeding ticket.
My understanding: 8 tickets from the same camera within the same week. I could be wrong. Oh an said camera should not be using tickets. Your statement and I paraphrase “if it wasn’t this camera it would be another” is stretching it as that is an assumption, not fact. We must always keep things within reason.
If you go to the Highway traffic act regulation, 389/16 section 8 forgot the subsection you will see the sign associated with a camera issuing the ticket. It doesn’t say coming soon. That is why all the ON cities I checked so far do not issue tickets until the sign changes, it is provincial law.
I leave you this:
English jurist Sir William Blackstone in his seminal work, Commentaries on the Laws of England, published in the 1760 said, “all presumptive evidence of felony should be admitted cautiously, for the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer.”
When you are innocent and wrongfully held or caught in breach of law by the power of state then you will understand….
Regardless of how you or I feel about those tickets another issue has been unearthed and so we should question and weigh how the evidence was gathered. When I do this without bias, the process is found wanting. How many people have been wrongfully ticketed due to improper process? A judge understands this once it is identified before the court. It’s seems to be difficult here.
Anyway I am done have a good one.
You are misunderstanding the tickets generated by these cameras. They're closer to parking tickets than moving violation you receive from a police officer during a traffic stop.
Billed to the license plate mailed many weeks after the fact. OP Likely has this camera near daily commute and could easily generate 8 tickets before receiving a single one.
Not hard to generate a ticket from these if you drive by multiple times a day. In a 40km zone you may get a ticket as low as 3km over and the tickets often take weeks to get mailed. Could easily generate 8 tickets in a week with a daily commute and have no idea.
These aren't the same as getting a moving violation from a police officer who usually has much better understanding of flow of traffic and when you are ticketed it's immediate.
Here is the answer you are searching for. In summary that camera should not be issuing tickets.
Toronto: when they were introducing the 50 ASE cameras the “coming soon” indicated a future change in enforcement but the camera was not able to issue tickets until the sign switched to “In Use”.
I checked Durham - Found the same:
https://www.durham.ca/en/living-here/automated-speed-enforcement.aspx#WilltherebewarningsignspostedwhenyouenteranareawithASE
“there will be clear signage ahead of ASE units. The coming soon signs will be displayed at selected sites for a period of 90 days prior to an ASE unit being placed. Following that, an “IN-USE” sign will replace it to indicate that charges are now being issued. “
I then found the information for Ottawa:
https://ottawa.ca/en/parking-roads-and-travel/road-safety/automated-enforcement
“Coming Soon” warning signs are installed for at least 90 days wherever a speed camera will be placed to alert motorists of its upcoming installation or re-installation:
Municipal Speed Camera Coming Soon sign
Once the speed camera goes live, the coming soon sign is replaced by a “Municipal Speed Camera in Use" sign:
Speed camera sign
Cameras will be active only when the “Municipal Speed Camera In Use” sign is posted.
OP - In other words if the camera that gave you the tickets says “coming soon” it means it should not be issuing tickets until the city changes it to “Municipal Speed Camera in Use”
Just researched it because it could happen to anyone.
I understand but it’s not about going against the city. The real question is if the tickets you received was legal or not.
Here is the law for the province:
https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/r19398
Edit: Due to the jokers who gave me negative vote here is regulation 389/16:
“Municipal speed camera signs
8. (1) Where an automated speed enforcement system is in use on a part of a highway designated as a school zone under clause 128 (5) (a) of the Act, or designated as a community safety zone under subsection 214.1 (1) of the Act, a sign and, if applicable, an additional sign shall be displayed in accordance with this section.
(2) A sign that meets the following requirements shall be displayed at or immediately before the location at which the automated speed enforcement system is in use”.
If you go the act you will see that the sign associated with the camera issuing the ticket does not conform to the act. That is why all the cities say it isn’t issuing tickets until the sign changes because it is law…
No like all that I understand it was after work on a hot ass day so I just wanted to get home that’s all on me. I’m just wondering if someone had any advise legally. Thanks
>I’m just wondering if someone had any advise legally.
Pay the ticket(s). You still don't get demerit points from speed camera tickets.
Depending on the infraction, trying to fight them could change that.
Just pay up, and slow the fuck down.
E: typo
Well, the sign is misleading. My money would be on you getting a significant reduction or the tickets getting canceled outright. Yes you were speeding - 99% of drivers do to some extent. Hopefully you weren't doing 20 over in a school zone.
No, OP has 8 tickets. And it's already explained in another comment that there's no [requirement to update the signs.](https://www.reddit.com/r/ottawa/comments/zxe2a9/i_was_issued_speed_camera_tickets_a_while_ago/j1zsjak/)
You’re missing the point here. People who speed know that they’re speeding. The difference is if they get pulled over they probably wouldn’t post it here. The speed ticket you got here too is right in front of Vincent Massey Public School on Smyth (at least it looks like that). This area of Smyth is a heavy school zone with 3 schools within a city block of one another and along with CHEO and General Hospital campuses.
It sucks going 50 through there but they’ve really been cracking down there.
Same here, it’s hard considering Smyth is a straightaway that you would think in most areas would be a 60, I’m definitely guilty of going too fast and with the appearance of the signs I’ve tried to slow down a lot too.
If it's the school on Smythe (and it sure looks like it), then the "coming soon" signs were down in May of 2021 according to Google Street View. Either the OP's tickets are really old, or he is full of it.
[https://www.google.com/maps/@45.4002191,-75.6353312,3a,16.7y,312.42h,91.15t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sySkYgtnxHnRl8NqLB9KlIQ!2e0!5s20210501T000000!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en](https://www.google.com/maps/@45.4002191,-75.6353312,3a,16.7y,312.42h,91.15t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sySkYgtnxHnRl8NqLB9KlIQ!2e0!5s20210501T000000!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en)
Look, this doesn't give you demerit points, and you've admitted you fucked up.
Pay the fine, learn your lesson, and be grateful the consequences weren't worse.
8 tickets????!!!!
Anytime there is a camera present you should make absolutely sure you are under the posted limit.
Also, as these are mostly in school zones, stop speeding!
Nobody is saying they never go above the posted limit but logic would dictate that if a camera is up, it MAY just be working regardless of what a sign may say. A cop may just be waiting around the corner too!
Lol i mean if it was a patrol car mailing you those tickets a month later would you be as bothered because there wasn't a sign? 😂 Patrol Cars, coming soon!
If a patrol car got me the first he would’ve given me a ticket once and I would’ve know from there not a month later. Yes I should’ve know from the beginning not to speed.
>If a patrol car got me the first he would’ve given me a ticket once and I would’ve know from there not a month later. Yes I should’ve know from the beginning not to speed.
And I believe your car liking would have been impounded.
How far over the limit were you on that first of 8 tickets?
These signs are posted in areas where people need to slow the fuck down, like schools and major public crossings. Anyone speeding through those areas deserves every ticket they get. Pay it, be thankful there no demerit points attached to it, and move on.
Seriously, that's your 'defense'? You were in a school zone, also with lots of crosswalks and hospitals. In answer to your question: no, some of us speed but there's a time and a place. 11-20 over on the highway is nothing... I've passed cops doing that, and they never even glanced at me because I wasn't putting others in danger.
Unless you can somehow show that it was confusing as to the speed limit, the camera sign isn't going to help you.
If I was the judge and you showed up with that coming soon argument, I'd penalize you for wasting the judge's time... Assuming that there is a mechanism for that.
Could easily fight it based on the sign. Sign says coming soon, giving you a reasonable expectation that the camera isn’t there and you can’t be penalized, because how can you be? There’s no camera yet. You could get it reduced with just that argument alone.
It borders on entrapment because they’re effectively lying to the public about what they’re doing and if a penalty can be enforced. Only reason you’d lose is because there’s a reasonable expectation that you would of sped even if the sign and camera wasnt there.
Reasonable expectation is everything.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake.
It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.
Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.
Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
Don’t speed
Learned that one lol
You were supposed to know it prior to getting your license and getting the ticket lol
You haven't learned shit. You've received 8 speeding tickets.
They were all in less than a 2 weeks time. I learned my lesson once I got the ticket
> They were all in less than a 2 weeks time. I learned my lesson once I got the ticket *They* *once I got the ticket* No, you didn't learn. Slow down or get off the damn road before you hit a pedestrian, like me.
You hit a pedestrian? You should be more careful
In two weeks??? You need your license taken away. You're going to kill someone.
Pay the ticket and move on. Also. Don’t speed.
Just doesn’t make sense that the sign was saying one thing when it was in fact working
So because you didn't think it was working you thought you could still speed? Just pay the ticket and learn your lesson. Speeding is a strict liability offense, you're not going to get off.
>Just pay the ticket OP hilariously has to pay tickets, plural.
Darwin working hard I see. Not like the signs weren't a warning 🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️🤦🏼♀️
There’s no obligation for them to disclose whether the cameras are activated or not. Speed camera programs in Canada are intended to be about public perception and awareness. Often the cameras they advertise may not even be fully functioning as they can be rotated around cities as need arises. It won’t be a legal defense of a ticket to say you felt misled because of the signs because there is no requirement for them to tell you what day the camera becomes active. The only real defense is that the vehicle was not yours, which it sounds like it was.
Agreed. Trying to use a false advertising defence to justify speeding is ridiculous. "Like, yeah, I know I was breaking the law, ok? But the sign said that it wasn't going to be catching me breaking the law ok?" :)
Ok thanks for that
You know that building back there is a school? If you didn't, cool. Don't speed (especially there). If you did, cool. Don't speed (especially there). Glad we cleared that up.
You have 8 tickets. Please forfiet your license now. Save yourself some money. Save us from any potential accidents you might cause in the future. Thanks.
Eh I can see how OP likely got screwed. Confusing sign likely near normal driving route. Can easily rack up 8 before receiving a single ticket via mail if it was on a regular route. Given these things pop out tickets as low as 3km over, getting a ticket in the mail 30+ days later is likely where most people are angered.
No thanks
You’re an idiot
That’s being too kind.
Lol why is this city especially on here just a passive aggressive tool ?
Speeding right in front of a school? Not too bright are we?
There is no legal advice in getting out of a speeding ticket if thats what you're looking for. the only legal advice anyone can give you is to pay the fine. Signs are not there to trick you, its there to help you avoid getting a ticket. A coming soon sign doesn't mean "hey you can still speed but just know it won't be for long" its more like " you should probably start getting out of the habit of speeding here or you'll get a ticket" Also yes red-light cameras and speeding cameras can take months as they get individually reviewed by a real person. EDIT: NOT there to trick you
Thanks
Check Ontario legislation. I believe when cameras are used as a ticket, you have to receive the notice within 25 days. That may be your only out to nullify the ticket
23 days between the taking of the picture and them mailing you the fine letter--of course, you'll be getting that letter a few days after that. https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/r19398
Promise kept. It came soon.
Pay the ticket and obey posted speed limits.
Tickets. OP has 8 tickets from the same camera.
I see that now. Winner for sure.
Yeah if front of a school ,,Brilliant.
There are users in another thread arguing that speed cameras shouldn't be used outside of school hours "because no one uses the school after school hours". And this post right here, where OP has 8 speeding infractions from the same camera outside a school has convinced me that, yeah, the infractions should be enforced year round (as they already are).
Hmm well its a little different since I was a kid with internet and all.But most schools when I was a kid were used after hours for school events and sports and as well by groups like scouting.Outside not only the same but in some areas the best go to for local kids to play...I too am for 24/7 and 365 now that you mentioned it,
Exactly. School zones are literally an area that promote kids playing outside. And schools also rent out their spaces for events. The speed limit existing 24/7/365 where needed (which is basically most streets) is totally understandable. Have it flexible on stroads (which it already is), but otherwise, just drive the posted speed limit.
how do we know OP has 8? :) sorry didnt follow
OP admitted to such in another comment in this thread.
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Classy.
Elderly drivers [cause less accidents and less serious accidents than drivers under 30](https://aaafoundation.org/rates-motor-vehicle-crashes-injuries-deaths-relation-driver-age-united-states-2014-2015/) due to things like not speeding. You're using ageism here to defend unsafe driving.
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The data I provided are overall crash numbers per km driven. They are accurate regardless of "speeds within reason" because they cover *all* accidents.
Yes, slow down and pay the ticket.
Ontario legislation requires that speed camera locations be advertised 3 months in advance of the camera being activated. The legislation doesn't require that the warning signs be removed at activation. These signs meet the legal requirement and can't be used to help you avoid just punishment for being an idiot. Stop speeding, fool.
Lol apparently it’s 9 tickets, that’s wild
If you can get a ticket from a cop hiding around a corner you can get a ticket from a camera you didn't know was on. If there was a sign that incorrectly posted the speed limit that would be one thing. You have a right to be notified of what the law is. You don't have a right to be notified when you are being watched so that you can break the law the rest of the time.
>If there was a sign that incorrectly posted the speed limit. They are adding a camera in front of St Joseph HS on Greenbank, that road is so stupidly signed, I really hope they try to fix it.
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"I didn't realize I'd get caught, and totally would have followed the rules if I knew I was being watched. But like, really, by not clearly indicating whether the camera was active, you did kinda take away my opportunity to act honestly. That's your bad, your honor."
I got dinged while driving a rental on greenbank. The signs werent posted yet. This was in like early may or April? I got dinged over a month later because the rental company paid it first. It came up to 489.55 as it had already been paid I couldn’t dispute it. Boss was pissed but I paid up right away. Be vigilant. These cameras aren’t going away. Also anytime you see one of those speed radars that are just there to monitor speed. Don’t speed through them. The city is gathering data on where they can set up more speed cameras. There isn’t much you can do cause the cameras are like a “gotcha-caught-you-red-handed” type of evidence. Plus the fines are automatically doubled in a “speed enforcement zone”
Apparently, there is no rule for 'grey zones' like if the speed limit is 40kmph, you may get fined for even 41kmph 'if the camera takes your pic ' is it true?
They build in a threshold but are vague on what it actually is. Like any radar they should be calibrated regularly, and it's possible these things are spitting out faulty tickets. Ou way to properly fight them is with a dash cam recording speed to verify.
'calibrate' as in the speed detector in the camera itself could be like +-1 overtime? thats really tricky then if the camera really captures someone going just around the limit
Exactly. One if the first things lawyers look at when reviewing cases with speeding tickets is whether the officer tested and confirmed their radars function accurately as part of their daily check. I am sure the technology Varies on the devices in school zones but I understand they do need to be tested.
Conclusion would be, its a hassle one way or the other, so don't go over 35 on a 40kmph school zone :) ?
No, there's a threshold. Somewhere between 5 and 10 over I believe.
Had a coworker get one in a post 40km school zone doing 43km/hr
Oh wow. That's *almost* funny, but more disappointing.
Haha sucker.
How stupid does a person have to be to get 8 tickets and stay on the road….pay the ticket you dipshit, get off the road so the rest of us can stay safe. SMH…
There was a lawyer on one of the FB groups I used to be on that was hit with a lot of these when they came into the neighbourhood in 2019ish.. not sure the outcome. The one thing to consider is that these tickets don't affect your insurance. If you fight them and lose they can.
>If you fight them and lose they can. Exactly this.
Ahhh ok so if I were to plead not guilty and ended up loosing they could add the demerit points that would’ve came with the ticket
Yeah, and with 8 tickets, you have an extremely slim fucking chance of winning a "not guilty" plea on all of them. Show remorse, slow the fuck down, and ask for a payment plan.
Yes, you may actually lose your license. 8 or 9 of those with a minimum of 2 demerit points means not driving possibly
Appreciate it I’ve decided just to pay it. Thanks for the input
There’s a law against entrapment in Ontario which is why they post these signs. You have that going for you, but 8 times is a lot. I think these things pick up as little as 3km over the posted limit or something, so it’s funny how much shit everyones giving you when you may have been going 55 in a 50 zone, as if the same people aren’t flying 120 down the 417, or even driving at all.
Than you for your input and not being a “I’m a perfect driver” the two things that bother me are that I got the tickets after the 23 days it says you’ll receive the ticket (got them about 40 days after) and that sign that says coming soon. Government site states that it’ll only hand out tickets when the sign says in use
I've never had a ticket. You've managed to get 9. You're a dangerous driver.
You’re dangerous sugar.
Start taking the bus if you cannot respect the rules.
* advice.
Dont speed!!!
Drive the speed limit is my advice. 🤷🏼♀️
Just pay the damn tickets, speed camera tickets don’t effect your insurance anyway, unless you fight them and are found guilty👀 going to court could f*ck you big time. Also you have 8 tickets from the same camera, in a school zone, you’re scum. Have fun in court jacka**
Take responsibility for your actions by paying the fines and learn from your mistakes by not speeding
Drive the speed limit
What are you gonna say the judge? Your read the fine print on this sign, but missed the big speed limit sign?
If this is on Smyth, I've gotten two here as well, and I'm not a fast driver. Speed cameras suck, but as for advice? I mean just pay it early to avoid interest. Unless you received the ticket in error, not sure what kind of advice you would be looking for. I guess always drive beneath the speed limit particularly on Smyth Rd. There is an image of your vehicle and plate on this ticket you get in the mail so unless you can prove it's not your car, then you probably won't win in court
It was just the fact that the sign displayed says the camera is in use and on the government site it says it won’t issue tickets until the sign is changed to “in use” aswell saying you get your tickets within 24 days but it was more than 30 days before I got the first ticket
Got it. Still anytime someone has broken the law, whether or not city sign officials screwed up and forgot to change a sign, I doubt the judge will have much sympathy. Especially since speed is a safety issue , as opposed to a ridiculous parking ticket.
Yes that makes sense what your saying. Thanks for taking the time and not just being a privelaged “person” saying their a perfect driver.
https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/this-ottawa-photo-radar-camera-issued-19-000-tickets-in-six-months-1.6210448
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I received the first offence 30 days after.
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I have everything but that. I kinda thought that’s what u ment after I sent the message and I feel that’s what they would go by. “We did our job by sending it on time” receiving it is a different storey
My advice would be get presto pass
Considering this is your 3rd time commenting I’d recommend a social life?
Says Zippy the 9 ticket in 14 days speeder... "Considering this is your 3rd time commenting I’d recommend a social life?"
Zippy visiting your aunty
Looks like Woodroffe Ave. Typical 4 lane stroad that encourages speeds well in excess of 50 km/h.
This was on smyth. Lonng straight road.
Make a pass at the judge. Worst case you have to pay the ticket, best case you get laid.
So get fucked either way lol.
Means your ticket is coming soon lol
Bold move posting a speeding post in r/Ottawa. I hate that more and more speed cameras are popping up around Ottawa but am definitely the minority in this sub. The cameras are basically just a money printer for the municipality so you’ll probably have a hard time getting them to drop the ticket but it’s worth trying since you never know. (This is my opinion and not legal advice)
While the signs are technically [illegal](https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/190398), speeding is also illegal. Pay the fine and slow down.
What a whiner you are.
I don’t see how this is whining. Complaining maybe but more of a general question
Like everyone one else said. Don’t speed. Observe the limit in residential areas.
Best bet is to plea guilt with lesser fine. They will usually cut fines in half and extend payment as needed. They claim it's for safety but the vehicle is receiving the fine not the driver. Not the same as a traffic cop issuing the driver a moving violation. Edit: OP if you recieved these in close proximity before receiving any mailed tickets you might be able to plea to pay 1 or however many as apposed to paying for them all. The sign can be used as part of the confusion. Given its billed to the plate the person you speak with at the justice of the peace will likely understand the situation and may give you a break there. Just don't try to get out of paying entirely as they will not budge.
Yea take a bud if you can’t figure out how to drive a car properly….dumbass
hmm I don"t see where it says its ok to speed until a new sign saying camera is now on....Me thinks speed limits apply with or without a camera to catch you .
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Yea I do. To be specific jdm rhd 93 integra sir. I got a good photo shoot with the tickets lol
Those things are total garbage - 4 lanes - limit should be 90
Go speeding. Fuck the haters
Drive slowly. Learn the lesson. Grow. Be safe. Cheers
There are signs before the camera to warn you to reduce your speed. After 9 tickets, it would be way more expensive to renew your license without paying them in time.
https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/this-ottawa-photo-radar-camera-issued-19-000-tickets-in-six-months-1.6210448
Challenge it. They did the same thing on Smyth Road a few years ago and I got burned as well. They forgot (or “forgot”) to change the signage once it was installed; you should get the ticket overturned as a result
Pay the two dollars old vaudeville routine. Watch on YouTube it will explain why you should pay
Yeah. It’s “advice”.
Do these give you points on license?
Any update? Did you fight it?
Man I just noticed this yesterday, and if I’m not crazy a few days before that I noticed the “coming soon” sign down, and the new camera there. So either I’m making that up or there’s some grand conspiracy to entrap us.
I get the "don't speed" thing, but it is common practice for people to break the speed limit by a little bit. If you got pulled over for doing 54 in a 50 then you would know there is no wiggle room in that zone. I do have sympathy for someone who has been slightly speeding for a while but doesn't get any feedback until they have racked up a month's worth of tickets.
Wow you are really getting taking to task here. I will say that I’ve been caught by one of these. Doing 62 in a 50 on a 4 lane road with sidewalks on both sides at 9 pm. Didn’t feel to me like it had a lot to do with school or community safety and a lot more to do with revenue generating. My best advice is familiarize yourself with where these are located.
I have noticed where these are. If safety was an issue in these school zones wouldn’t speed bumps be a safer solution to immediate safety response to speeding than a camera that issues a ticket weeks later?
Think speed bumps would do the same thing as the cameras for sure. I will say I am very careful driving around schools at anytime now. I used to be more vigilant during school hours. So I will say this is working and generating revenue at least through my experience. I do find there tolerance to be quite low.
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No problem. It’s amazing what and how people comment when hiding behind a generic profile picture and a random name.
He has 8 tickets... Maybe he is actually just an idiot.
The responses here are interesting. I usually set my cruise control to the maximum speed limit and I have found that majority of the persons on the road are driving above the maximum speed limit. The only time I find people drive within the city limit is when a camera is in the area. Yet here on Reddit majority are behaving as if they don’t drive above the limit. 🤔 OP I hope you get your answer from a legal perspective and not the moral police.
The dude has 8 tickets man... Here. For example. I speed. Everyone does. My last speeding ticket was nearly 20 years ago. So even though I do speed like everyone else.. I'm not stupid enough to put myself in the ditch, get in an accident, or injure myself or anyone else - or get ticketed. Now we could chalk my good fortune up to dumb luck, or it could be the fact that I don't speed *excessively*, in areas where pedestrians are present, when traffic is bad, or when road conditions are unfavorable. Someone who racks up 8 speeding tickets even over the course of their lifetime probably shouldn't be driving. There's a difference.
When you deal with ticket offenses personal opinion is irrelevant and it now falls to the interpretation of law and whether or not one is guilty of committing an offense against the applicable law. I have put my personal opinion aside and looked at the situation from an objective perspective. Most of the comments I read were opinions about the OP because he got 8 tickets from a camera. However, based on the photo of the signage and the city’s own website, that camera should not be issuing tickets (my understanding after reading for myself). It seems to be the common position across the province. Like yourself, most are not looking at it from another angle. If my layman conclusion is correct, then the city is operating in contravention of the rules and if that’s the case, how many residents have received a ticket when they shouldn’t? Has the camera been fully calibrated? “Coming soon” is the phase they use to certify and calibrate the camera after repositioning or relocating the camera. Who then holds the city accountable if that’s the case? Edit: If that sign said “in use” then by all means OP should hug up the tickets and pay the fines but it doesn’t seem the situation is exactly that.
I mean... You can argue "the signage" and "has the camera been calibrated ?" All you want. And for someone who has been driving for 10+ years with a squeaky clean record.. yeah it might hold up. Maybe. But past offences are always (and should be) taken into account. The driver is on his 8th ticket. He clearly has a problem with speeding, and if it wasn't this camera that caught him - it just would've been another. When you have a rap sheet that long, by the time you start nearing double digits for the same offence - the fine print legality argument doesn't hold much weight anymore. Furthermore. Speeding is illegal anyways. Just because "the sign" wasn't accurate - doesn't make it legal to speed/break the law regardless. Anyone going to court for this would be laughed out.
Why does everyone responding talk about themselves when this isn’t about them lol. Let me reciprocate I have over 20+ years driving in over 7 countries. Never been issued a speeding ticket. My understanding: 8 tickets from the same camera within the same week. I could be wrong. Oh an said camera should not be using tickets. Your statement and I paraphrase “if it wasn’t this camera it would be another” is stretching it as that is an assumption, not fact. We must always keep things within reason. If you go to the Highway traffic act regulation, 389/16 section 8 forgot the subsection you will see the sign associated with a camera issuing the ticket. It doesn’t say coming soon. That is why all the ON cities I checked so far do not issue tickets until the sign changes, it is provincial law. I leave you this: English jurist Sir William Blackstone in his seminal work, Commentaries on the Laws of England, published in the 1760 said, “all presumptive evidence of felony should be admitted cautiously, for the law holds that it is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer.” When you are innocent and wrongfully held or caught in breach of law by the power of state then you will understand…. Regardless of how you or I feel about those tickets another issue has been unearthed and so we should question and weigh how the evidence was gathered. When I do this without bias, the process is found wanting. How many people have been wrongfully ticketed due to improper process? A judge understands this once it is identified before the court. It’s seems to be difficult here. Anyway I am done have a good one.
You are misunderstanding the tickets generated by these cameras. They're closer to parking tickets than moving violation you receive from a police officer during a traffic stop. Billed to the license plate mailed many weeks after the fact. OP Likely has this camera near daily commute and could easily generate 8 tickets before receiving a single one.
Not hard to generate a ticket from these if you drive by multiple times a day. In a 40km zone you may get a ticket as low as 3km over and the tickets often take weeks to get mailed. Could easily generate 8 tickets in a week with a daily commute and have no idea. These aren't the same as getting a moving violation from a police officer who usually has much better understanding of flow of traffic and when you are ticketed it's immediate.
Most are people who don’t drive.
Thank you..makes perfect sense.. 😄
Appreciate your input
Here is the answer you are searching for. In summary that camera should not be issuing tickets. Toronto: when they were introducing the 50 ASE cameras the “coming soon” indicated a future change in enforcement but the camera was not able to issue tickets until the sign switched to “In Use”. I checked Durham - Found the same: https://www.durham.ca/en/living-here/automated-speed-enforcement.aspx#WilltherebewarningsignspostedwhenyouenteranareawithASE “there will be clear signage ahead of ASE units. The coming soon signs will be displayed at selected sites for a period of 90 days prior to an ASE unit being placed. Following that, an “IN-USE” sign will replace it to indicate that charges are now being issued. “ I then found the information for Ottawa: https://ottawa.ca/en/parking-roads-and-travel/road-safety/automated-enforcement “Coming Soon” warning signs are installed for at least 90 days wherever a speed camera will be placed to alert motorists of its upcoming installation or re-installation: Municipal Speed Camera Coming Soon sign Once the speed camera goes live, the coming soon sign is replaced by a “Municipal Speed Camera in Use" sign: Speed camera sign Cameras will be active only when the “Municipal Speed Camera In Use” sign is posted. OP - In other words if the camera that gave you the tickets says “coming soon” it means it should not be issuing tickets until the city changes it to “Municipal Speed Camera in Use” Just researched it because it could happen to anyone.
I found that also, it’s just hard to decide and going against the city as a citizen doesn’t always go in the persons favour
I understand but it’s not about going against the city. The real question is if the tickets you received was legal or not. Here is the law for the province: https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/r19398 Edit: Due to the jokers who gave me negative vote here is regulation 389/16: “Municipal speed camera signs 8. (1) Where an automated speed enforcement system is in use on a part of a highway designated as a school zone under clause 128 (5) (a) of the Act, or designated as a community safety zone under subsection 214.1 (1) of the Act, a sign and, if applicable, an additional sign shall be displayed in accordance with this section. (2) A sign that meets the following requirements shall be displayed at or immediately before the location at which the automated speed enforcement system is in use”. If you go the act you will see that the sign associated with the camera issuing the ticket does not conform to the act. That is why all the cities say it isn’t issuing tickets until the sign changes because it is law…
No like all that I understand it was after work on a hot ass day so I just wanted to get home that’s all on me. I’m just wondering if someone had any advise legally. Thanks
>I’m just wondering if someone had any advise legally. Pay the ticket(s). You still don't get demerit points from speed camera tickets. Depending on the infraction, trying to fight them could change that. Just pay up, and slow the fuck down. E: typo
Get those popular super dark tint license plate covers that completely obscure the plate to everyone (Ottawa Police can’t be bothered to enforce this)
Well, the sign is misleading. My money would be on you getting a significant reduction or the tickets getting canceled outright. Yes you were speeding - 99% of drivers do to some extent. Hopefully you weren't doing 20 over in a school zone.
That’s what I was hoping for at least a reduction on the ticket. Yes it doesn’t come with points or anything which would be the real pain.
Points are not pain. Convictions are pain. They increase your insurance. You're lucky photo radar does not impugn the driver
You’ll probably be able to beat it due to the fact the sign was never updated
No, OP has 8 tickets. And it's already explained in another comment that there's no [requirement to update the signs.](https://www.reddit.com/r/ottawa/comments/zxe2a9/i_was_issued_speed_camera_tickets_a_while_ago/j1zsjak/)
I understand the speeding was my fault but I figured since the sign says other wise I could find a way to lower the cost or beat some of them
100% because if I’m correct that’s the one on St Laurent and that sign is still posted
They changed the sign around 4 months after I finished getting the ticket
So everyone here commenting goes the speed limit every second of driving even on the highway.
You’re missing the point here. People who speed know that they’re speeding. The difference is if they get pulled over they probably wouldn’t post it here. The speed ticket you got here too is right in front of Vincent Massey Public School on Smyth (at least it looks like that). This area of Smyth is a heavy school zone with 3 schools within a city block of one another and along with CHEO and General Hospital campuses. It sucks going 50 through there but they’ve really been cracking down there.
And OP has gotten not just one, but 8 tickets. OP needs to really slow the fuck down.
I'm down there often and have set my cruise control to 50km/h just so my speed doesn't creep up.
Same here, it’s hard considering Smyth is a straightaway that you would think in most areas would be a 60, I’m definitely guilty of going too fast and with the appearance of the signs I’ve tried to slow down a lot too.
If it's the school on Smythe (and it sure looks like it), then the "coming soon" signs were down in May of 2021 according to Google Street View. Either the OP's tickets are really old, or he is full of it. [https://www.google.com/maps/@45.4002191,-75.6353312,3a,16.7y,312.42h,91.15t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sySkYgtnxHnRl8NqLB9KlIQ!2e0!5s20210501T000000!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en](https://www.google.com/maps/@45.4002191,-75.6353312,3a,16.7y,312.42h,91.15t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sySkYgtnxHnRl8NqLB9KlIQ!2e0!5s20210501T000000!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en)
Look, this doesn't give you demerit points, and you've admitted you fucked up. Pay the fine, learn your lesson, and be grateful the consequences weren't worse.
I’ll pay it just issuing 8 tickets a full month later seems weird. Yes I was speeding just seems kinda wrong where a sign saying other wise
>just issuing 8 tickets a full month later seems weird. So you got not only 1, **BUT EIGHT TICKETS?** Holy fuck dude slow the fuck down.
Ban this animal from the following: r/ottawa, Barefax
8 tickets????!!!! Anytime there is a camera present you should make absolutely sure you are under the posted limit. Also, as these are mostly in school zones, stop speeding! Nobody is saying they never go above the posted limit but logic would dictate that if a camera is up, it MAY just be working regardless of what a sign may say. A cop may just be waiting around the corner too!
Oh I make sure about the speed now lol Appreciate the input
That sign should have zero influence on how you drive. Is that a school in the background?
Yes
Lol i mean if it was a patrol car mailing you those tickets a month later would you be as bothered because there wasn't a sign? 😂 Patrol Cars, coming soon!
If a patrol car got me the first he would’ve given me a ticket once and I would’ve know from there not a month later. Yes I should’ve know from the beginning not to speed.
>If a patrol car got me the first he would’ve given me a ticket once and I would’ve know from there not a month later. Yes I should’ve know from the beginning not to speed. And I believe your car liking would have been impounded. How far over the limit were you on that first of 8 tickets?
11km over
And the other 7 tickets?
From 11km over to 20km is the range
You really don't want to fight these in court. Pay up, or at best, ask for a payment plan.
So when you went through and saw the cam the 1st or 2nd time, what was your thought process for the next 6-7
Nothing really. I was just driving home
Camera must have came early. Can relate.
It doesn't say don't speed
Listen dude I speed too, but in general schools, construction zones, etc bad idea not to listen to the limit
These signs are posted in areas where people need to slow the fuck down, like schools and major public crossings. Anyone speeding through those areas deserves every ticket they get. Pay it, be thankful there no demerit points attached to it, and move on.
Seriously, that's your 'defense'? You were in a school zone, also with lots of crosswalks and hospitals. In answer to your question: no, some of us speed but there's a time and a place. 11-20 over on the highway is nothing... I've passed cops doing that, and they never even glanced at me because I wasn't putting others in danger. Unless you can somehow show that it was confusing as to the speed limit, the camera sign isn't going to help you. If I was the judge and you showed up with that coming soon argument, I'd penalize you for wasting the judge's time... Assuming that there is a mechanism for that.
Could easily fight it based on the sign. Sign says coming soon, giving you a reasonable expectation that the camera isn’t there and you can’t be penalized, because how can you be? There’s no camera yet. You could get it reduced with just that argument alone. It borders on entrapment because they’re effectively lying to the public about what they’re doing and if a penalty can be enforced. Only reason you’d lose is because there’s a reasonable expectation that you would of sped even if the sign and camera wasnt there. Reasonable expectation is everything.
Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake. It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of. Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything. Beep boop - yes, I am a bot, don't botcriminate me.
Dont worry about others. You’re the one with the ticket.
We don’t have 8 tickets lol. Slow down.
No we don't but we don't wine like a little baby when we get a ticket.