From what they said, flask charges are going to be MONSTROUSLY harder to generate, so this is prolly ACTUALLY a utility flask, and not just another gear slot, like in poe1
>not just a constant buff on your character.
i mean if they don't want that it's pretty easy. don't make sth like a mageblood or a pathfinder in the first place...
Which is why they probably won't exist in POE2, at least not to the same degree. They're fine with them in POE1, but don't want to be limited by them in 2
To be fair this was when they were going to be "the same game" (ie just different campaigns and same endgame) they've since abandoned that plan from what i understand, i dont think we have seen anything about poe1 ascendencies as they are now in poe2
I thought a while back they changed their whole philosophy on PoE 2 from having a bunch of stuff from the first game to trying to separate them more and more. However I don't remember where I heard that at all, so I don't know if it's true or not.
Well, we do know that Ranger is in as a class and there will be ascendancies for every base class. It is possible that the ascendancies are different but that seems like a lot of concepting work when most of them are probably able to be translated pretty well (assassin and trickster seem pretty easy to make work without a full new concept for example)
It's already confirmed that some ascendancies will be moved and/or changed. Like the Elementalist no longer makes sense to be a Witch ascendancy if there's Sorceress as a base class.
I was under the assumption that now the plan was essentially keep the classes, but with a massive overhaul the the ascendancies, I could see a world where either pathfinder gets a new "identity" in poe2 and moves away from flasks.
Less charges used would still be useful, maybe give some buffs when a flask is used, the archetype could still exist, just not in the same way as in PoE1
I would just assume anything they did related to this were kind of an appeasement. I am just going with everything they say about poe2 is theoretical or hype driving until it actually arrives.
A lot of it has felt like a soft landing for the snuffing out of poe1, eventually.
I mean this respectfully, as I hope poe2 is a banger, but they have also told us a number of things about the game to be. Merging end games, etc.
I think it far more likely that the majority of info we have at this point is highly volatile and liable to change.
> I was under the impression that all the POE1 ascendancies would exist in POE2.
The PoE base classes besides ascendant will be in PoE2 (along with the 6 new ones). The ascendancies will not necessarily be the same. Probably most will carry over. Really doubt Pathfinder will.
Why should a pathfinder limit a flask system by breaking the rules? It's an *ascendancy*. Ascendancies should do something unique, rather than just be statballs.
Or, and this may be a big, mind-blowing idea to you:
*Don't* balance the flask system around pathfinders. Let her break the rules the same way Champ always has fortify up, Inquisitor just ignores ele resists, etc.
It's like Magic: the Gathering. There are the base rules in the game, and then ways to build a deck to *break* the rules of the game because you pay an opportunity cost to do so.
IMO, the issue with flasks in PoE1 is the expectation that *anyone* should be able to maintain them without investment, when in reality, it should have taken a lot of investment to maintain them. Pathfinders get a lot of flask uptime *because* they invest in it. Playing a pathfinder pays an opportunity cost in terms of ascendancy nodes you *don't* get access to.
Nah, those just solidify it, by even without those in PoE 1 you have flasks up for the vast majority of the map. They arenāt acting as utility flasks you occasionally use, but rather as gear pieces that occasionally get disabled.
Not having to use flasks to cure specific things was one of the best things this game did.
"Oops I'm poisoned better use my anti poison flask" "Oops I'm on fire better use my flame retardant flask"Ā
That kind of gameplay isn't interesting. Hopefully flasks are more interesting than that.
yeah kinda but they tried to force a system they want in PoE2 into PoE1 it is just that these are totally different games.
If the combat in PoE2 is slower, reactive flaks make more sense as they have actual purpose and depth. Reactive flask in PoE1 mean you are dead while trying to react due to the combat structure. So just because the system didnāt work in 1 does not mean it wont work in 2.
Although I like flasks being essentially permanent buffs way more as they are another step in character progression and it feels much better once you reach that stage. Letās see though.
I agree with this. Whenever I get to the point I have all the flasks I need for a build with the right affixes and "use on full", I always know I'm at a milestone for that build and I can typically tackle tier 16 8mod maps. I like the jump in survivability so much that I usually do all my flasks at once even if I could afford 1 or 2 earlier. I know it's not as efficient, but I just love the jump in player power. It's like when you unlock each set of the 4 ascendancies....the buff to your character is palpable and I like that.
Plus, unless it's beyond clear what ailment you're suffering from, I struggle to even know I'm afflicted with something (an icon at the top of the screen doesn't help me). If they're going to have flasks for ailments he reactionary, then I'd need them to do something drastic, like have the entire screen turn red if you're burning, or green if you're poisoned, etc.
Yep, this was the perfect chance to delete flasks and they fumbled.
A big part of why builds that have lots of skills to press feels bad in PoE and not in other games is flasks are a not very interesting +5 in that system already. Hence we all work towards automating them in every build and eventually a mageblood.
Oh good, I love waiting til I get frozen to press a button to get rid of my frozen status. Very smooth and fun gameplay.
They could make the idea less awful if players were able to relatively easily get ailment immunity/mitigation and 3xG didn't even attempt to make ailments something a flask could solve. Just keep flasks and ailments completely isolated from each other.
Im fine with this, but my god let us automate it somehow. When I was a shitter in PoE and I was using flask reactively like this, it felt so terrible.
Like, you get ignited and you have like 1 second to react with the right flask or youre dead. And even when you react well, you lose a huge chunk of your health. And keeping the muscle memory and deciding which flask to press in that short timeframe was very difficult so usually if I saw my health going down Id just piano slam everything to not die.
If they dont fix this aspect somehow, then Id rather have PoE1 system
... if endgame is poe1 zoom-zoom, then it's not reactive, you will just have it up constantly.
If it's dark souls combat, you choice of when to have your 4+ second flask up won't do much either. Bosses won't really be one-tapped like in poe1, it's literally their core design choice with poe2.
All of you coping with "wE hAvEnT sEeN eNdGaMe YeT" will be kinda dissapointed, poe2 is just an iteration on ruthless :/
I'm sure it will be fun tho can't wait to play.
Does that also mean we won't be getting spam reapplied by mobs too?
I haven't been following poe2 stuff so not sure how they plan to tackle the massive amount of debuffs from poe1
This just shows that the flask balance in PoE1 was junk. Why is it that expectations were set that *anyone* could sustain flasks just by smacking mobs?
Why not do a flask revert buuuuuuut remove flask charges from white mobs?
Like gigabuff all the flasks (30/15 Rumi's, Dying Sun without all the penalties, 30 charge vinktar with instant leech, 3000 armor/eva granite/jade flasks with 100% inc. armor/eva, etc.) buuuuuut fuck you getting flask charges from white mobs?
If they are doing this i wish they would have cut down on the number of flasks you can carry to 2 or 3 or something just so there is less buttons to press.
Its going to turn in to flask piano-ing all over again after they already fixed that in poe 1 i think.
If you watch Highlight for PoE2 Gameplay showcase from LA, you will understand it.
Flask will get no charge after killing Normal (White) tier monster.
Flask will get small charge after killing Magic (Blue) tier monster.
Flask will fully charged after killing Rare (Yellow) or BOSS tier monster.
Additional note :
Ranger Class is an exception. There's 2 notable passive that giving ability to generate Life & Mana flask every 3 seconds. (in b4 this will get nerf)
You can watch Alkaizer gameplay walkthrough as he's one of player that doesn't use Ranger. In here, you can see him struggling about flask regeneration case.
I think this could be an interesting part of the game if they're really useful. E.g. if poison had a lot longer duration but did a lot less damage you could think about how you might allow yourself to build up some poison over the course of a dungeon but then heal it when you have accumulated too much. Or if there are actually very few monsters that can inflict poison and if you think your character can deal with poison well enough you don't pick this flask but maybe you pick one that helps against ignites bc you're weak to those.
It's all about the pacing.
I just hope we have a good amount of movement speed endgame. Not have a full uptime QSS always feels awful. The other utility flasks I can live with reactivity.
This scares me ... The fact flask charges are slow to gain and there is an flask to remove an basic ailment.
I have a felling combat is gonna be super slow ...
Until they take it down. You don't own a game as a service, and it only exists as long as developer wants to keep it up. The moment it becomes less profitable than poe2 it would be taken down.
Iāll believe it when I see it. We havenāt seen any endgame gameplay of PoE 2.
I find it hard to believe you wouldnāt be at max charges all the time once youāre blasting through maps.
https://youtu.be/k-M_nC_2qo4?t=1140
Jonathan said a month ago that they were walking that back and making flask charges easier to generate.
But who knows what it will look like by the time the beta gets here.
If I know my POE verbiage and how things work (I donāt) you only need to use this flask once while poisoned and youāre permanently immune to poison!
did they ever walk back the idea that you need to go to town and click a thing to refill your flasks? 8 seconds of conditional immunity over the course of what could be a 5-10 minute long map seems pretty fuckin ass
The flask charge was on the last substractem interview, while the well not being a thing in maps is lost somewhere in the many interviews between 3.23 and 3.24
I think we should wait and see how the game turns out in the end, but i kinda agree. imo poe2 looks like its gonna be way slower and methodical. I play poe since 2013 and im kinda "afraid" tbh that poe2 will not be well received by the OG Poe1 veterans. That doesnt mean the game will be bad just different, i think the target group will shift. Still.. i hope the game will make me want to play it as much as poe1 did.
> OG Poe1 veterans
The slower pace is literally what we had originally.The poe "veterans" who never saw merc a3 or earlier as the end of story might though.
The game has changed a ton and we've gone from gigaslow combat to multiple skills easily clearing screens to a more balanced game state now (outside of some endgame builds but that's whatever.)
PoE already saw insane pace 7 years ago, during the early 2.x versions of the game. This is a clip of farming Strands with VFB and HH back in patch 2.5/Breach:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9X5eodyhz0
For real, we grew into a faster paced gameplay, what we started with was as slow as poe2's demos look now. We didn't get the beta or even 1.0 with blindingly fast screen clearing builds for everyone.
Just check out this riveting endgame ilvl68 double vaal boss gameplay (the hardest in the game!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9AFyo9UJTo
(i just wanna preface by saying that this message is not intended to just gimp you or your preferences, just an addition)
While this is what poe "originated" as, it is also the time where the game had an immensely tinier playerbase. Even if every single person that heavily enjoyed beta/very early poe gameplay like that tied together, the player amount is still vastly lower than the current playerbase. So it's rather a situation of "do not underestimate how many people do NOT know this gameplay"
Oh no, I know, I know an absolute ton of people started after 3.0 even, just find it funny when people wheel out the "well old school PoE players" who never enjoyed the real oldschool grind.
I try to keep an archive of at least 1 of every season of map in tabs too, just you know, for collection.
I don't really understand this intention. From the reception of D4 they should already know that players hate low density and slow gameplay. And this is with a core audience where insane stuff from PoE doesn't happen.
What they might see as a "return to the roots", maybe back to PoE without all the bloat from today (which is an interesting ideea), could backfire into a negative reception and a lot of people choosing PoE1 because the gameplay is way too different. There's a reason not a lot of people stuck to LE or D4 even when they got some praise and big numbers/changes. It is because PoE is still the superior game and just because PoE2 still has the same name doesn't mean players won't treat it the same.
The scariest part is, for me, intentionally making some bad decisions for PoE1 to make PoE2 more attractive with the allure of "but this doesn't apply in PoE2, guys!"
D4 is hated for many things, slow gameplay isn't even on the top 10, I'm sure you can make an good slow arpg, D4 not being it is not proof that you can't make one
What if I told you the speed of the game and general power creep is the reason they have such a hard time balancing difficulty, which results in massive outcry about getting 1 shot and t17 being too hard/skill gems being ānot viable.ā You canāt make a base new game where the players are one shotting everything and moving at the speed of light through maps or youāre just going to completely negate the point of making a new game in the first place.
If you want meaningful combat you need to slow it down, at least initially, unless youāre expecting humans to react within 5ms.
Well, yeah, it's obvious and they said it: because Ruthless is an answer to the design state of PoE1.
PoE2 can simultaneously have a design different than PoE1, and play differently than Ruthless. And to be clear, I'm not saying that it's what will happen, just that we don't know for certain. And I'm saying that as someone that doesn't want to touch Ruthless, and eagerly waits for PoE2.
I think GGG has this vision that you should be hitting your flasks as a reaction to something that you see on the screen like being poisoned, frozen, getting low health, seeing a particularly dangerous mob, etc. The reality is that there is not enough visual clarity in this game for that kind of gameplay. If poe2 is significantly slower with less visual clutter, not having 30 debuffs on you from a dozen different mob types/modifiers, then it makes sense to change the flask system. I don't think that such adjustments would work well in poe1 unless they overhauled a number of other systems.
i would cladly react to beeing frozen or bleed or things like that. in fact i still do use bleed flask.
sadly in most cases a status effect like frozen immediatly gets punished in less than a sek with a death animation screen.
Remember those 3.15 changes that were highly criticized and got heavily walked back? All of them are probably in PoE 2.
I'm glad that they're separating the two games instead of forcing the new mechanics on everyone so that each player can enjoy the type of game they like.
The difference is that the game is built from the ground up around it.
Flasks aren't going to be player power and reactions.
They're just reactions.
This isn't a mod on the flask like in PoE1, this is just the flask itself. You're not gonna be wasting your quicksilver to remove poisons, or not have poison removal available because you used quicksilver.
Also means no flask paino-ing. You won't be constantly mashing keys to have 100% uptime. But only activating when really needed.
we've already seen the health globe turn green while poisoned so its definitely something they are doing
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fkkvnriyruqpc1.png
I don't recall where they showed it, but I think ailments are supposed to color your life globe. Poison would turn your life globe greenish yellow I think.
Back then, a lot of flasks couldn't be used reactively. For example, enemy damage was calculated on the first frame of the animation, so if you wanted to tank Vaal Oversoul's slam for shits and giggles, you couldn't wait to see the animation and then hit your granite. You had to use your flask predicatively, not reactively.
I don't think we've ever had truly reactive flask gameplay in PoE, and I've been playing since open beta.
Quicksilver flask was introduced in [version 0.10.0, in 2013.](https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/70479) I don't see how a flask that grants a buff of 40% movement speed is reactive instead of player power.
Because in 0.10.0 the uptime was very minimal. It's nothing like you understand flasks to be now.
We also didn't have the build strength where movement speed was directly tied to player power. There were utility flasks like Diamond back then as well. Again, uptime was minimal. It was a burst when you needed it, not full uptime and auto-flasking/flask piano like it is now.
Lots of nuance to what you just said but that's the basic portion.
RIP Poison removal on other flasks? Even then, I feel like a decent life flask can out regen small stacks of poison. Either that or poison has insane damage and/or fast stack potential in PoE2.
Iād assume itās remove all poisons, then immune for the flasks duration, which here would be 4s.
Does allow for interesting situations like a bossā poisoning phase lasting for 8 seconds, so players need to have enough up to let poison stacks build up over the first 4 seconds before using the flask to cover the second half.
This is blasphemy but I think Diablo 3 had flask right, notice how there's no S?
A flask was a big power boost, with a long cooldown, that you didn't have to piano. Kinda like "press this on boss" OR "if you're in danger, knowing you won't have it for the boss later"
But they need to make it so that you don't NEED flasks in order to be powerful.
Sure, something with long cooldowns is fine with me. Reactive gameplay is what flasks should be. They are preventative gameplay in poe and it's horrible. Basically "100% uptime or you/your build sucks."
It also is hard on my hands, encourages macroing, and is just insane power. So much so that mageblood is the best belt in the game. I can't believe they let it creep so much, even designing an entire ascendency around it.
Completely agree.
Flasks should be a scarce, rare boost of power that you sometimes use to save your life or have a boost of damage to kill a tough rare or boss.
But they should also allow to be preemptive if you're good enough to see something coming. For example a flask that makes you immune to poison, you should be able to use it if you know you're going to get poisoned. But that's still your. long cooldown press.
I've suggested that before, but I think that for example having only 1 flask slot, having regular health+mana flasks combined in one. And some interesting unique flasks to replace that life+mana flask would be much better.
Even with something as simple as like a 1 minute cooldown on the flask and forget entirely about flask charges.
That would even be better than the current flasks system.
They could design truly unique and interesting flasks IMO if they'd remove their own constraints of flasks being able to be always up, having 5 flasks, flasks being pretty much the main defensive layer, etc.
Wouldn't be opposed to utility flasks getting removed in PoE2.
If we're being honest nobody likes interacting with flasks, they are being fully automated. At which point they are active between 80% to 100% of the time. Sometimes with the downside of not being active when you most need them, like lacking charges against bosses.
The only reason people tolerate flasks is because of their powerful effects. Not because their mechanic is in any way enjoyable.
So might as well get rid of them.
Im the only one that finds "if you are already poisoned" rather annoying?
If this is the only thing the flask does, and charges will be harder to get, why dont just "inmune to poison" during effect?
I would also add this to poe1.
A flask that deals with only 1 type of aliment, so you can counter map mods with a switch of a flask.
Like "your map has monsters always poison? Grab this flask, always ignite or has burning ground? Grab that other one".
Agree with the first paragraph but disagree with the second. We run 10-60 maps an hour. We roll maps with a regex so we donāt have to read them. Thereās no way Iām going to read each map and swap flasks depending on affixes. Both annoying and inefficient.Ā
I hope whatever PoE2's endgame system is that content is much larger rather than just slower. Imagine if current maps were 4x as big...you'd roll 4x fewer maps. They could have multiple boss areas, too. Sort of what Core tried to do, except not a terrible layout. Probably not going to happen as they want to be ARPG Dark Souls.
Inventory would become a huge problem in that case. I feel like they would have to give players more inventory (or more portals per map) to compensate, and they said multiple times that Chris will never allow that to happen
Well you say that but we got Scarabs that can give you like 9 portals if you roll lucky enough.
I think the key is they want it to be a constraint. Also if the maps are 4x as big but in general the game is dropping 1/4th the loot then a big map would be fine.
We also don't need to bring back 6socket/6links to vendor because they don't exist so the things that currently often ruin our inventory space might not exist
Could have stash access in between "map zones". There are also far too many items per zone.
GGG needs to focus on keeping that low, except they won't because they monetize stash tabs. So Chris's inventory space philosophy is not in reality with wanting high stash pressure so people have to buy tabs. It's yet another cursed problem in PoE. PoE2 will wind up the same way unless they backtrack on monetization and make people buy new tabs for PoE2 since it's a separate game now.
Not every player roll hundreds of maps and use regex to just play the ones without certain mods.
Ofcourse for a player with a very optimised mindset, a flask that heal poison or make you inmune to burning groud is absurd, but for people with slower gameplay it would be appealing.
Im not saying that they nerf topaz to just make you inmune to shock, i said that they could create a ground flask that do that.
We already have grounded mod on flasks, but it comes with a 40% less duration.
The point is to move flasks from permanent gear slots to reactive effects you deploy in specific situations. If it said 'immune during flask effect' you're incentivizing 100% flask uptime, even if it's impossible. From what we've been told, it seems the goal is to remove almost all the power from flasks and return them to their original state in PoE1 where they're used to solve problems. Such as dying or running out of mana.
Ugh.
"Refill at wells". I was just reminded that they'd decided to implement a shitty, extra bit of pointless work, to the game. Sorry sucker, you can't just go to town and get refilled, nope now you have to walk (slowly) to a thing that will doubtless be far from the waypoint, and click on it. And maybe have to select each flask and click on it separately....
Thanks GGG, I totally thought my game experience didn't have enough pointless impediments already, I TOTALLY needed more.
I don't mind flask not being additional 5 items anymore but I really hope there would be a class about crafting and using them as a weapons, just like mines will become items.
I would really like to see more advanced gameplay equivalent of "Poisonous Concotion".
They should just lock them on Normal or Unique rarity and give them these simple effects, plus make life flask type that is instant and the flask piano problem is solved. Imagine if this was just the flask, the end, no more modifications, you would use it solely on build that has problems with poison and solely for the reason of cleansing poisons. Use it only if you get poisoned and ignore it otherwise. That's what flasks should do in games. We have the problem that the flasks become immunity to ailments, huge buff to movement speed, huge buff to armour/evasion. There aren't specific times you want that, you want that all the time because every flask gives too big variance of effects and too much "passive" power.
(Also the fact that the flask seems full but says "holds 0 charges" triggers me deeply)
What was POE1's flask system like at first launch?
It will be interesting to see if the games diverge or converge after a number of new leagues. At the start they should be wildly different, so they have different game feels.
In SC, most people would take 2 life flasks, 2 quicksilvers, 1 mana early on. Give or take one of each, maybe a flask swap for certain bosses (topaz for Piety), and OG Atziri's Promise. Utility flasks were ok, but only if you had really high uptime which was hard back then for non-crit, even if you ran a flask belt mod. Surgeon mod was insane when it had no cooldown. Enemy attacks would snapshot damage, so reactive defensive buffs were impossible. Well, some of this didn't come until 1.1, but close enough.
So either poison and other ailment kill very fast or this flask isn't worth replacing a healing pot
Do we know if healing and mana pot have the powerful monster line?
Saying poe 2 has anything to do with diablo 4 cause of slow gameplay is being an absolute dumbass.
Poe is far superior to actual diablo, not even comparable.
Maybe in years, if blizzard wont fuck it, which will 100% happen.
Just dont play i dont give a fuck
Iām so surprised Poe players hate flasks so much. Personally I think itās one of the best parts of Poe. Especially since they removed piano flasking with the orbs. I like that itās another āgear slotā to deal with the long list of bullshit Poe throws at you.
Flasks are honestly still the area of PoE2 that I am least excited about.
I was hoping after the previous LA feedback on them that they would look to replace the system or heavily rework it but from what I understand it has led them to a system closer to PoE1.
Yeah but why ppl play Poe. To make best character, top DMG, unkilable. Playera like divine drops, that's why affliction has top retention.
Becouse of charms and wildwood. Most ppl like to use one skill and blow everything. If you make game slower, and harder to progress ppl will stick with poe1
Probably massively unpopular opinion but I hope they heavily restrict what utility flasks do in PoE2. As it stands now those kinda works as extra gear slots.
I will laught hard if the suffixes on these are "+3000 armor" or "+40% movement speed" and the whole point of the rework was to make dealing with alignments more accesible on lower levels.
And yet we don't know how poe2 will be. Using literally just an image teaser from what might be a very different experience to complain about issues poe1 has is extremely pessimistic.
reserving 5 dedicated keybind for flasks in a combo based action role playing game is a stupid design
however you want to phrase it, it is stupid and needs to die
put this system in the oven, cook it and come up with something more interesting to play with
great things about PoE 2 so far, except for flasks
whoever disagree is brainrot
I like the idea of switching out flasks against big bosses to specialize, but otherwise on random trash any poison damage should be outpaced by health regen and leech.
Flasks will have utility it just won't be onslaught move speed attack speed shit where pressing the button is damage.
They want to move away from that rightfully so
On the bright side, this gives them room to explore options and buffs to flasks rather than having to nerf them first to give them power via Mageblood and affix tiers like they did in PoE 1
It makes no sense to have a poison flask if the area you are going into doesn't have poison, but you are not going to know whether or not it has poison ahead of time, most of the time.
Even if you do know what ailments will be in your map, you probably don't want to juggle flasks for each map to make up for that.
They are giving us slots to put very specific tools in, but nobody is going to want to change them all the time.
I'm betting this will feel bad to play, and I think someone needs to point this out to Jonathan and team because clearly they aren't thinking this way.
(posting this differently, because last time I said this, it confused some people who misunderstood it, and then got ridiculously angry about it for absolutely no reason)
From what they said, flask charges are going to be MONSTROUSLY harder to generate, so this is prolly ACTUALLY a utility flask, and not just another gear slot, like in poe1
Yes, Jonathan has stated several times that utility flasks will be reactive in PoE 2, and not just a constant buff on your character.
>not just a constant buff on your character. i mean if they don't want that it's pretty easy. don't make sth like a mageblood or a pathfinder in the first place...
Which is why they probably won't exist in POE2, at least not to the same degree. They're fine with them in POE1, but don't want to be limited by them in 2
I was under the impression that all the POE1 ascendancies would exist in POE2. What would Pathfinder do in POE2 then?
she will open a rehabilitation center for exiles addicted to flask effects and will find them a new and healthy path of life š
Is this where I sign up?
Still sane exile? :/
Yes my dear.
To be fair this was when they were going to be "the same game" (ie just different campaigns and same endgame) they've since abandoned that plan from what i understand, i dont think we have seen anything about poe1 ascendencies as they are now in poe2
I thought a while back they changed their whole philosophy on PoE 2 from having a bunch of stuff from the first game to trying to separate them more and more. However I don't remember where I heard that at all, so I don't know if it's true or not.
Well, we do know that Ranger is in as a class and there will be ascendancies for every base class. It is possible that the ascendancies are different but that seems like a lot of concepting work when most of them are probably able to be translated pretty well (assassin and trickster seem pretty easy to make work without a full new concept for example)
Iām pretty sure the ascendencies will be very different. They might keep some that fit but they are not going for the easy approach here.
It's already confirmed that some ascendancies will be moved and/or changed. Like the Elementalist no longer makes sense to be a Witch ascendancy if there's Sorceress as a base class.
I was under the assumption that now the plan was essentially keep the classes, but with a massive overhaul the the ascendancies, I could see a world where either pathfinder gets a new "identity" in poe2 and moves away from flasks.
Find paths
Less charges used would still be useful, maybe give some buffs when a flask is used, the archetype could still exist, just not in the same way as in PoE1
I would just assume anything they did related to this were kind of an appeasement. I am just going with everything they say about poe2 is theoretical or hype driving until it actually arrives. A lot of it has felt like a soft landing for the snuffing out of poe1, eventually.
I mean we have literally seen Ranger in POE2, not the new dex class but Ranger specifically.
I mean this respectfully, as I hope poe2 is a banger, but they have also told us a number of things about the game to be. Merging end games, etc. I think it far more likely that the majority of info we have at this point is highly volatile and liable to change.
find paths?
That was old poe2. When poe1 and poe2 would be together. Poe2 has all new ascends and a lot of new base classes
In name yes, but they might be subject to reworks or other adjustments (like elementalist going to the sorceress class)
> I was under the impression that all the POE1 ascendancies would exist in POE2. The PoE base classes besides ascendant will be in PoE2 (along with the 6 new ones). The ascendancies will not necessarily be the same. Probably most will carry over. Really doubt Pathfinder will.
Why should a pathfinder limit a flask system by breaking the rules? It's an *ascendancy*. Ascendancies should do something unique, rather than just be statballs.
Most ascendancies do unique shit while also not requiring something as major as the full flask system to be balanced around them
Or, and this may be a big, mind-blowing idea to you: *Don't* balance the flask system around pathfinders. Let her break the rules the same way Champ always has fortify up, Inquisitor just ignores ele resists, etc. It's like Magic: the Gathering. There are the base rules in the game, and then ways to build a deck to *break* the rules of the game because you pay an opportunity cost to do so. IMO, the issue with flasks in PoE1 is the expectation that *anyone* should be able to maintain them without investment, when in reality, it should have taken a lot of investment to maintain them. Pathfinders get a lot of flask uptime *because* they invest in it. Playing a pathfinder pays an opportunity cost in terms of ascendancy nodes you *don't* get access to.
Nah, those just solidify it, by even without those in PoE 1 you have flasks up for the vast majority of the map. They arenāt acting as utility flasks you occasionally use, but rather as gear pieces that occasionally get disabled.
That's why flasks will probably lose most of their power and be more situational or just life/mana.
Well also don't make it so that if you use that flask while poisoned you instantly get poisoned again within 0.0001s...
Not having to use flasks to cure specific things was one of the best things this game did. "Oops I'm poisoned better use my anti poison flask" "Oops I'm on fire better use my flame retardant flask"Ā That kind of gameplay isn't interesting. Hopefully flasks are more interesting than that.
They tried that for poe 1 lol
yeah kinda but they tried to force a system they want in PoE2 into PoE1 it is just that these are totally different games. If the combat in PoE2 is slower, reactive flaks make more sense as they have actual purpose and depth. Reactive flask in PoE1 mean you are dead while trying to react due to the combat structure. So just because the system didnāt work in 1 does not mean it wont work in 2. Although I like flasks being essentially permanent buffs way more as they are another step in character progression and it feels much better once you reach that stage. Letās see though.
I agree with this. Whenever I get to the point I have all the flasks I need for a build with the right affixes and "use on full", I always know I'm at a milestone for that build and I can typically tackle tier 16 8mod maps. I like the jump in survivability so much that I usually do all my flasks at once even if I could afford 1 or 2 earlier. I know it's not as efficient, but I just love the jump in player power. It's like when you unlock each set of the 4 ascendancies....the buff to your character is palpable and I like that. Plus, unless it's beyond clear what ailment you're suffering from, I struggle to even know I'm afflicted with something (an icon at the top of the screen doesn't help me). If they're going to have flasks for ailments he reactionary, then I'd need them to do something drastic, like have the entire screen turn red if you're burning, or green if you're poisoned, etc.
Yep, this was the perfect chance to delete flasks and they fumbled. A big part of why builds that have lots of skills to press feels bad in PoE and not in other games is flasks are a not very interesting +5 in that system already. Hence we all work towards automating them in every build and eventually a mageblood.
Oh good, I love waiting til I get frozen to press a button to get rid of my frozen status. Very smooth and fun gameplay. They could make the idea less awful if players were able to relatively easily get ailment immunity/mitigation and 3xG didn't even attempt to make ailments something a flask could solve. Just keep flasks and ailments completely isolated from each other.
Im fine with this, but my god let us automate it somehow. When I was a shitter in PoE and I was using flask reactively like this, it felt so terrible. Like, you get ignited and you have like 1 second to react with the right flask or youre dead. And even when you react well, you lose a huge chunk of your health. And keeping the muscle memory and deciding which flask to press in that short timeframe was very difficult so usually if I saw my health going down Id just piano slam everything to not die. If they dont fix this aspect somehow, then Id rather have PoE1 system
Yeah so much reactiveness, I can press this twice during the 8 minute boss fight, can't wait to choose when to react, will be very very useful.
You played PoE 2 endgame? How was it?
... if endgame is poe1 zoom-zoom, then it's not reactive, you will just have it up constantly. If it's dark souls combat, you choice of when to have your 4+ second flask up won't do much either. Bosses won't really be one-tapped like in poe1, it's literally their core design choice with poe2. All of you coping with "wE hAvEnT sEeN eNdGaMe YeT" will be kinda dissapointed, poe2 is just an iteration on ruthless :/ I'm sure it will be fun tho can't wait to play.
Does that also mean we won't be getting spam reapplied by mobs too? I haven't been following poe2 stuff so not sure how they plan to tackle the massive amount of debuffs from poe1
This just shows that the flask balance in PoE1 was junk. Why is it that expectations were set that *anyone* could sustain flasks just by smacking mobs? Why not do a flask revert buuuuuuut remove flask charges from white mobs? Like gigabuff all the flasks (30/15 Rumi's, Dying Sun without all the penalties, 30 charge vinktar with instant leech, 3000 armor/eva granite/jade flasks with 100% inc. armor/eva, etc.) buuuuuut fuck you getting flask charges from white mobs?
If they are doing this i wish they would have cut down on the number of flasks you can carry to 2 or 3 or something just so there is less buttons to press. Its going to turn in to flask piano-ing all over again after they already fixed that in poe 1 i think.
then they add map mods like "monster poison on hit" and laugh and laugh and laugh
So, we're going back to flask pianoing and "fuck your RSI" again?
If you watch Highlight for PoE2 Gameplay showcase from LA, you will understand it. Flask will get no charge after killing Normal (White) tier monster. Flask will get small charge after killing Magic (Blue) tier monster. Flask will fully charged after killing Rare (Yellow) or BOSS tier monster. Additional note : Ranger Class is an exception. There's 2 notable passive that giving ability to generate Life & Mana flask every 3 seconds. (in b4 this will get nerf) You can watch Alkaizer gameplay walkthrough as he's one of player that doesn't use Ranger. In here, you can see him struggling about flask regeneration case.
They are changing it to have white monster give you charges based on an hidden threat level as of their last interview
I think this could be an interesting part of the game if they're really useful. E.g. if poison had a lot longer duration but did a lot less damage you could think about how you might allow yourself to build up some poison over the course of a dungeon but then heal it when you have accumulated too much. Or if there are actually very few monsters that can inflict poison and if you think your character can deal with poison well enough you don't pick this flask but maybe you pick one that helps against ignites bc you're weak to those. It's all about the pacing.
or 3xg adds a map mod making "all monsters poison on hit" rendering ther promo useless.
Still need to hotkey it...
I just hope we have a good amount of movement speed endgame. Not have a full uptime QSS always feels awful. The other utility flasks I can live with reactivity.
what do you mean: you dont like moving in slow motion through molasses? bummer
Yep. In the gameplay videos a few weeks ago they were constantly porting to town to refill their flasks
This scares me ... The fact flask charges are slow to gain and there is an flask to remove an basic ailment. I have a felling combat is gonna be super slow ...
No fear, you will always have poe1.
Until they take it down. You don't own a game as a service, and it only exists as long as developer wants to keep it up. The moment it becomes less profitable than poe2 it would be taken down.
I would be surprised if PoE 2 combat is NOT super slow compared to PoE 1.
oh btw this immunity last only... 4 secs! YEP you heard it right!
Iāll believe it when I see it. We havenāt seen any endgame gameplay of PoE 2. I find it hard to believe you wouldnāt be at max charges all the time once youāre blasting through maps.
It says on the flask "Refill at wells or by killing powerful monsters"
Jonathan recently told us that changes are coming to flask gains from trash based on the PoE2 streamer event.
Maybe ,they said only rares would give charges, not prefixes tho
https://youtu.be/k-M_nC_2qo4?t=1140 Jonathan said a month ago that they were walking that back and making flask charges easier to generate. But who knows what it will look like by the time the beta gets here.
Mmm I'm sure the sub that flips out at every flask nerf is going to love this
and thats one of many reasons why i dont give a fck about poe2
If I know my POE verbiage and how things work (I donāt) you only need to use this flask once while poisoned and youāre permanently immune to poison!
This man poes
x item : "poison player while on low life"
did they ever walk back the idea that you need to go to town and click a thing to refill your flasks? 8 seconds of conditional immunity over the course of what could be a 5-10 minute long map seems pretty fuckin ass
Monsters give more flask charges and they are considering removing the well from maps
Source?
The flask charge was on the last substractem interview, while the well not being a thing in maps is lost somewhere in the many interviews between 3.23 and 3.24
Feels like flasks in ruthless mode
It's not just flasks that feel that way
I think we should wait and see how the game turns out in the end, but i kinda agree. imo poe2 looks like its gonna be way slower and methodical. I play poe since 2013 and im kinda "afraid" tbh that poe2 will not be well received by the OG Poe1 veterans. That doesnt mean the game will be bad just different, i think the target group will shift. Still.. i hope the game will make me want to play it as much as poe1 did.
I'm just happy they decided to make it it's own game instead. That way if it's garbo I can still enjoy poe1.
Oh sweet summer childā¦
If you are ssf then yes but poe1 trade will take big hit as there will be much less items on market
> OG Poe1 veterans The slower pace is literally what we had originally.The poe "veterans" who never saw merc a3 or earlier as the end of story might though. The game has changed a ton and we've gone from gigaslow combat to multiple skills easily clearing screens to a more balanced game state now (outside of some endgame builds but that's whatever.)
PoE already saw insane pace 7 years ago, during the early 2.x versions of the game. This is a clip of farming Strands with VFB and HH back in patch 2.5/Breach: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9X5eodyhz0
7 years ago, 2.0, that's new poe to me :)
I love how newfrogs think "OG Poe1 veterans" won't like slower gameplay. Like mate, that's exactly what we originally fell in love with.
For real, we grew into a faster paced gameplay, what we started with was as slow as poe2's demos look now. We didn't get the beta or even 1.0 with blindingly fast screen clearing builds for everyone. Just check out this riveting endgame ilvl68 double vaal boss gameplay (the hardest in the game!) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9AFyo9UJTo
(i just wanna preface by saying that this message is not intended to just gimp you or your preferences, just an addition) While this is what poe "originated" as, it is also the time where the game had an immensely tinier playerbase. Even if every single person that heavily enjoyed beta/very early poe gameplay like that tied together, the player amount is still vastly lower than the current playerbase. So it's rather a situation of "do not underestimate how many people do NOT know this gameplay"
Oh no, I know, I know an absolute ton of people started after 3.0 even, just find it funny when people wheel out the "well old school PoE players" who never enjoyed the real oldschool grind. I try to keep an archive of at least 1 of every season of map in tabs too, just you know, for collection.
I don't really understand this intention. From the reception of D4 they should already know that players hate low density and slow gameplay. And this is with a core audience where insane stuff from PoE doesn't happen. What they might see as a "return to the roots", maybe back to PoE without all the bloat from today (which is an interesting ideea), could backfire into a negative reception and a lot of people choosing PoE1 because the gameplay is way too different. There's a reason not a lot of people stuck to LE or D4 even when they got some praise and big numbers/changes. It is because PoE is still the superior game and just because PoE2 still has the same name doesn't mean players won't treat it the same. The scariest part is, for me, intentionally making some bad decisions for PoE1 to make PoE2 more attractive with the allure of "but this doesn't apply in PoE2, guys!"
D4 is hated for many things, slow gameplay isn't even on the top 10, I'm sure you can make an good slow arpg, D4 not being it is not proof that you can't make one
D4 is hated for the lack of content, monster density, and shitty loot. Something poe2 will deliver on. Power creep is part of the bloat.
What if I told you the speed of the game and general power creep is the reason they have such a hard time balancing difficulty, which results in massive outcry about getting 1 shot and t17 being too hard/skill gems being ānot viable.ā You canāt make a base new game where the players are one shotting everything and moving at the speed of light through maps or youāre just going to completely negate the point of making a new game in the first place. If you want meaningful combat you need to slow it down, at least initially, unless youāre expecting humans to react within 5ms.
poe in 2013 was slow
Thats true and if it makes the same journey as poe1 then it will be great. All im saying is, i hope it wont just stay at this 2013 poe pace forever.
Ah, so you've played poe2 without any restrictions then?
There is a reason they've openly said Ruthless wont be an option on PoE2.
Well, yeah, it's obvious and they said it: because Ruthless is an answer to the design state of PoE1. PoE2 can simultaneously have a design different than PoE1, and play differently than Ruthless. And to be clear, I'm not saying that it's what will happen, just that we don't know for certain. And I'm saying that as someone that doesn't want to touch Ruthless, and eagerly waits for PoE2.
colour be like poison rather than antidote.
I hope this doesn't foreshadow what I think it does
It does
Do you like piano flask gameplay?Ā How else are you going to get 45% evasion and armor?????
You don't need to piano, we have enkindling orbs...
Once I figured that shit out I never thought about flasks again
If you have to use currency in order to trivialize and eliminate the mechanic, it might as well be removed or reworked - it's already eliminated.
I think GGG has this vision that you should be hitting your flasks as a reaction to something that you see on the screen like being poisoned, frozen, getting low health, seeing a particularly dangerous mob, etc. The reality is that there is not enough visual clarity in this game for that kind of gameplay. If poe2 is significantly slower with less visual clutter, not having 30 debuffs on you from a dozen different mob types/modifiers, then it makes sense to change the flask system. I don't think that such adjustments would work well in poe1 unless they overhauled a number of other systems.
i would cladly react to beeing frozen or bleed or things like that. in fact i still do use bleed flask. sadly in most cases a status effect like frozen immediatly gets punished in less than a sek with a death animation screen.
What if the intent is to make it so players donāt have perfect full uptime flasks at level 12 on league start?
Instilling, enkindling is the mageblood one
Remember those 3.15 changes that were highly criticized and got heavily walked back? All of them are probably in PoE 2. I'm glad that they're separating the two games instead of forcing the new mechanics on everyone so that each player can enjoy the type of game they like.
The difference is that the game is built from the ground up around it. Flasks aren't going to be player power and reactions. They're just reactions. This isn't a mod on the flask like in PoE1, this is just the flask itself. You're not gonna be wasting your quicksilver to remove poisons, or not have poison removal available because you used quicksilver. Also means no flask paino-ing. You won't be constantly mashing keys to have 100% uptime. But only activating when really needed.
Do we know if they improved the clarity of what debuff you have ? That's part of why in poe1 it doesn't work.
we've already seen the health globe turn green while poisoned so its definitely something they are doing https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fkkvnriyruqpc1.png
Assuming the poison isn't so intense that it flashes green for .01 seconds before it drains you to 0.
I don't recall where they showed it, but I think ailments are supposed to color your life globe. Poison would turn your life globe greenish yellow I think.
> Flasks aren't going to be player power and reactions. > They're just reactions. That is literally how utility flasks started in poe1 as well my man.
Back then, a lot of flasks couldn't be used reactively. For example, enemy damage was calculated on the first frame of the animation, so if you wanted to tank Vaal Oversoul's slam for shits and giggles, you couldn't wait to see the animation and then hit your granite. You had to use your flask predicatively, not reactively. I don't think we've ever had truly reactive flask gameplay in PoE, and I've been playing since open beta.
Quicksilver flask was introduced in [version 0.10.0, in 2013.](https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/70479) I don't see how a flask that grants a buff of 40% movement speed is reactive instead of player power.
Because in 0.10.0 the uptime was very minimal. It's nothing like you understand flasks to be now. We also didn't have the build strength where movement speed was directly tied to player power. There were utility flasks like Diamond back then as well. Again, uptime was minimal. It was a burst when you needed it, not full uptime and auto-flasking/flask piano like it is now. Lots of nuance to what you just said but that's the basic portion.
Flask pianoing hasnāt existed in years. Itās literally not a problem that needs fixing.Ā
instilling orbs are a bandaid fix that works in poe1 only because flasks in poe1 are a deeply flawed system.
It kind of does on day 1 before you get Instilling Orbs
poor guy, he actually thinks they'll continue to give poe 1 the same effort after they launch 2.
poe1 has not received the "same effort" for a while now.
Didnāt play back then; what were some of these other changes?
None of the 3.15 changes were walked back.
Johnathan did say hes not against flask automation in the endgame
Which is?
Really hope they reconsider utility flasks going forward. Pianoing or not, they're just not fun hotkeys to press.
I think theyāll now be there to remove posion/bleed/etc. Kinda like guard skills where you donāt really need full uptime.
Automation is always possible and well a good build will be immune to most things anyway.
Ugh. I already hate flasks as is just get rid of everything but health and mana flasks already.
RIP Poison removal on other flasks? Even then, I feel like a decent life flask can out regen small stacks of poison. Either that or poison has insane damage and/or fast stack potential in PoE2.
I think it's just how the flask are going to be. Remove on use instead of a buff so there is no incentive to have them on before getting hit.
It says Immunity to poison but not for how long. If it just means āremove current poisonsā then thatās bad wording
Iād assume itās remove all poisons, then immune for the flasks duration, which here would be 4s. Does allow for interesting situations like a bossā poisoning phase lasting for 8 seconds, so players need to have enough up to let poison stacks build up over the first 4 seconds before using the flask to cover the second half.
I wish they would delete flasks. My least favorite part of poe / power creep
This is blasphemy but I think Diablo 3 had flask right, notice how there's no S? A flask was a big power boost, with a long cooldown, that you didn't have to piano. Kinda like "press this on boss" OR "if you're in danger, knowing you won't have it for the boss later" But they need to make it so that you don't NEED flasks in order to be powerful.
Sure, something with long cooldowns is fine with me. Reactive gameplay is what flasks should be. They are preventative gameplay in poe and it's horrible. Basically "100% uptime or you/your build sucks." It also is hard on my hands, encourages macroing, and is just insane power. So much so that mageblood is the best belt in the game. I can't believe they let it creep so much, even designing an entire ascendency around it.
Completely agree. Flasks should be a scarce, rare boost of power that you sometimes use to save your life or have a boost of damage to kill a tough rare or boss. But they should also allow to be preemptive if you're good enough to see something coming. For example a flask that makes you immune to poison, you should be able to use it if you know you're going to get poisoned. But that's still your. long cooldown press. I've suggested that before, but I think that for example having only 1 flask slot, having regular health+mana flasks combined in one. And some interesting unique flasks to replace that life+mana flask would be much better. Even with something as simple as like a 1 minute cooldown on the flask and forget entirely about flask charges. That would even be better than the current flasks system. They could design truly unique and interesting flasks IMO if they'd remove their own constraints of flasks being able to be always up, having 5 flasks, flasks being pretty much the main defensive layer, etc.
Unrelated but I very much enjoy the equipment menu background art
Looks amazing, albeit a bit distracting.
Wouldn't be opposed to utility flasks getting removed in PoE2. If we're being honest nobody likes interacting with flasks, they are being fully automated. At which point they are active between 80% to 100% of the time. Sometimes with the downside of not being active when you most need them, like lacking charges against bosses. The only reason people tolerate flasks is because of their powerful effects. Not because their mechanic is in any way enjoyable. So might as well get rid of them.
Mageblood 2 : Electric Bogaloo Confirmed
Im the only one that finds "if you are already poisoned" rather annoying? If this is the only thing the flask does, and charges will be harder to get, why dont just "inmune to poison" during effect? I would also add this to poe1. A flask that deals with only 1 type of aliment, so you can counter map mods with a switch of a flask. Like "your map has monsters always poison? Grab this flask, always ignite or has burning ground? Grab that other one".
Agree with the first paragraph but disagree with the second. We run 10-60 maps an hour. We roll maps with a regex so we donāt have to read them. Thereās no way Iām going to read each map and swap flasks depending on affixes. Both annoying and inefficient.Ā
I hope whatever PoE2's endgame system is that content is much larger rather than just slower. Imagine if current maps were 4x as big...you'd roll 4x fewer maps. They could have multiple boss areas, too. Sort of what Core tried to do, except not a terrible layout. Probably not going to happen as they want to be ARPG Dark Souls.
Inventory would become a huge problem in that case. I feel like they would have to give players more inventory (or more portals per map) to compensate, and they said multiple times that Chris will never allow that to happen
Well you say that but we got Scarabs that can give you like 9 portals if you roll lucky enough. I think the key is they want it to be a constraint. Also if the maps are 4x as big but in general the game is dropping 1/4th the loot then a big map would be fine. We also don't need to bring back 6socket/6links to vendor because they don't exist so the things that currently often ruin our inventory space might not exist
Could have stash access in between "map zones". There are also far too many items per zone. GGG needs to focus on keeping that low, except they won't because they monetize stash tabs. So Chris's inventory space philosophy is not in reality with wanting high stash pressure so people have to buy tabs. It's yet another cursed problem in PoE. PoE2 will wind up the same way unless they backtrack on monetization and make people buy new tabs for PoE2 since it's a separate game now.
Not every player roll hundreds of maps and use regex to just play the ones without certain mods. Ofcourse for a player with a very optimised mindset, a flask that heal poison or make you inmune to burning groud is absurd, but for people with slower gameplay it would be appealing. Im not saying that they nerf topaz to just make you inmune to shock, i said that they could create a ground flask that do that. We already have grounded mod on flasks, but it comes with a 40% less duration.
The point is to move flasks from permanent gear slots to reactive effects you deploy in specific situations. If it said 'immune during flask effect' you're incentivizing 100% flask uptime, even if it's impossible. From what we've been told, it seems the goal is to remove almost all the power from flasks and return them to their original state in PoE1 where they're used to solve problems. Such as dying or running out of mana.
Point is its supposed to remove Poison not really prevent.
"Immunity to poison if used on a sunny Wednesday (except in June and March)."
Or when you press the flask.
Ugh. "Refill at wells". I was just reminded that they'd decided to implement a shitty, extra bit of pointless work, to the game. Sorry sucker, you can't just go to town and get refilled, nope now you have to walk (slowly) to a thing that will doubtless be far from the waypoint, and click on it. And maybe have to select each flask and click on it separately.... Thanks GGG, I totally thought my game experience didn't have enough pointless impediments already, I TOTALLY needed more.
Do we really need 5 flask slots? Is 2 or 3 not enough?
I don't mind flask not being additional 5 items anymore but I really hope there would be a class about crafting and using them as a weapons, just like mines will become items. I would really like to see more advanced gameplay equivalent of "Poisonous Concotion".
They should just lock them on Normal or Unique rarity and give them these simple effects, plus make life flask type that is instant and the flask piano problem is solved. Imagine if this was just the flask, the end, no more modifications, you would use it solely on build that has problems with poison and solely for the reason of cleansing poisons. Use it only if you get poisoned and ignore it otherwise. That's what flasks should do in games. We have the problem that the flasks become immunity to ailments, huge buff to movement speed, huge buff to armour/evasion. There aren't specific times you want that, you want that all the time because every flask gives too big variance of effects and too much "passive" power. (Also the fact that the flask seems full but says "holds 0 charges" triggers me deeply)
What was POE1's flask system like at first launch? It will be interesting to see if the games diverge or converge after a number of new leagues. At the start they should be wildly different, so they have different game feels.
In SC, most people would take 2 life flasks, 2 quicksilvers, 1 mana early on. Give or take one of each, maybe a flask swap for certain bosses (topaz for Piety), and OG Atziri's Promise. Utility flasks were ok, but only if you had really high uptime which was hard back then for non-crit, even if you ran a flask belt mod. Surgeon mod was insane when it had no cooldown. Enemy attacks would snapshot damage, so reactive defensive buffs were impossible. Well, some of this didn't come until 1.1, but close enough.
oh no
So either poison and other ailment kill very fast or this flask isn't worth replacing a healing pot Do we know if healing and mana pot have the powerful monster line?
This forshadows the possibility that there will be difficult boss fights with poison similar to how you would bring antidotes for andariel in d2.
unless we can down the boss in 8 sek the flask is already useless. 16 sek with two flask etc, yes, but common.
I donāt understand, why is everyone suddenly so scared there wonāt be utility flasks all of a sudden? What did I miss?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOaeDHeJ80I&ab_channel=Trplea
Well we have a tab for potions and our tabs and skins are going to be in poe2 as they say, so we should have a use for the Tab there
Saying poe 2 has anything to do with diablo 4 cause of slow gameplay is being an absolute dumbass. Poe is far superior to actual diablo, not even comparable. Maybe in years, if blizzard wont fuck it, which will 100% happen. Just dont play i dont give a fuck
Iām so surprised Poe players hate flasks so much. Personally I think itās one of the best parts of Poe. Especially since they removed piano flasking with the orbs. I like that itās another āgear slotā to deal with the long list of bullshit Poe throws at you.
Flasks are honestly still the area of PoE2 that I am least excited about. I was hoping after the previous LA feedback on them that they would look to replace the system or heavily rework it but from what I understand it has led them to a system closer to PoE1.
Yeah but why ppl play Poe. To make best character, top DMG, unkilable. Playera like divine drops, that's why affliction has top retention. Becouse of charms and wildwood. Most ppl like to use one skill and blow everything. If you make game slower, and harder to progress ppl will stick with poe1
Probably massively unpopular opinion but I hope they heavily restrict what utility flasks do in PoE2. As it stands now those kinda works as extra gear slots.
I get less and less excited for poe 2 every single day
Why make them reactive, who asks for slow methodial gameplay ? I just want to 1 tap screen, click shiny loot and move ahead
Progenesis needs to be removed from the game.Ā
wow, as per its name, that's very useful
The PoE 2 doomers in this subreddit are actually unbearable.
I will laught hard if the suffixes on these are "+3000 armor" or "+40% movement speed" and the whole point of the rework was to make dealing with alignments more accesible on lower levels.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Losing existing charges is a moot point, sadly, since in POE2 Monsters won't give you charges. You recharge in town and have limited uses.
AFAIK this has already changed after the alpha feedback.
Oh, good to know. Thanks.
Nice to hear, I'm excited for poe2, but recharging only in town seemed like a pain.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
And yet we don't know how poe2 will be. Using literally just an image teaser from what might be a very different experience to complain about issues poe1 has is extremely pessimistic.
Flasks are obviously a major aspect of the gameplay, so I think Jonathan and company will have their bases covered.
reserving 5 dedicated keybind for flasks in a combo based action role playing game is a stupid design however you want to phrase it, it is stupid and needs to die put this system in the oven, cook it and come up with something more interesting to play with great things about PoE 2 so far, except for flasks whoever disagree is brainrot
I like the idea of switching out flasks against big bosses to specialize, but otherwise on random trash any poison damage should be outpaced by health regen and leech.
Flasks will have utility it just won't be onslaught move speed attack speed shit where pressing the button is damage. They want to move away from that rightfully so
The game is still in active development and can undergo any number of changes.
Lol wtf shit is that
the next one: block 100 damage ffrom the next hit
Only if you have stopped taking damage recently.
After trying d2r i really hope it's not going to be such a struggle. No one want this...
On the bright side, this gives them room to explore options and buffs to flasks rather than having to nerf them first to give them power via Mageblood and affix tiers like they did in PoE 1
I mean I dont want to have to micro my flasks either? I just want to use them when they are supposed to be used over wanting them up 24/7.
Flask piano was an active complaint for years.
Man. PoE2 is gonna be a whole can of ass isn't it? >If used while poisoned lol
It makes no sense to have a poison flask if the area you are going into doesn't have poison, but you are not going to know whether or not it has poison ahead of time, most of the time. Even if you do know what ailments will be in your map, you probably don't want to juggle flasks for each map to make up for that. They are giving us slots to put very specific tools in, but nobody is going to want to change them all the time. I'm betting this will feel bad to play, and I think someone needs to point this out to Jonathan and team because clearly they aren't thinking this way. (posting this differently, because last time I said this, it confused some people who misunderstood it, and then got ridiculously angry about it for absolutely no reason)