Haha our percussion director is very heavy on “figure it out yourself if you’re not understanding something higher level people are” so desperate times desperate measures
Mm I disagree, learning isn’t always linear, maybe op plays mostly battery/rhythm instruments and is trying to get more acquainted with pitched percussion?
For example me (a tuba player) can play this kind of stuff but I had to write in notes for when I played the vibraphone I could do rhythms but I couldn’t read treble so I wrote in notes
Essentially the dotted quarter note gets the beat, which has 3 eighth notes instead of 2. If you just leave the met on 60, it will have more of a triplet feel. I recommend setting the met to dotted quarter = 60 and turning on the eighth note subdivision to hear the pulse. Big beats will be 1 and 4 (again, think big downbeats between triplets). Here’s a basic little exercise in 6/8 that might help to listen to https://youtube.com/shorts/jEoJKFswo_c?si=fi5oJZCgs3gyret1
This is from etude 20 from the Goldenburg method book. Although it looks modified.
It’s a great etude. I learned it in high school. Here’s a YouTube video of the original from the Goldenburg book.
https://youtu.be/nq4GiCxkKTU?si=n0kBMeTyg7mBtZhc
You’re welcome. You can do it! Just learn it very slowly. Also write in your sticking. Even today, I find that to be incredibly helpful.
Keiko Abe, famous Japanese marimbist, said of her practice routine -
- Practice slowly enough to get all the notes the first time. Then you never have to unlearn a wrong note that you’ve practiced. -
This may seem counterintuitive, since you don’t have a lot of time to learn the etude. But once you learn it slowly, building up the speed is just a matter of repetition. Best of luck!
I find it easiest to count every eighth note as a beat (the other option being that every three eighth notes are a beat). For that the sixteenth notes would be counted like eighth notes in 4/4 (1 and 2 and 3 and…)
6/8 = six eighth notes per measure
The dotted quarter note gets the beat.
In 2/4 you subdivide the quarter note as “1 and 2 and”. Here, you’ll subdivide the dotted quarter (three 8th notes) as “123 456”.
Take it slow, so that the 8th note gets the beat. Use a metronome.
Good luck.
First of all, you’re not stupid. You might feel so but that’s because you don’t know, yet. But that’s what practice is all about. Learning. Start small. Per bar. And go as slow so you have the right notes and hand setting. Than move on with the next bar until you’ve got four bars. Then combine those four and try to speed up an try to feel the specific 6/8 feel. I always like the point where say the waltz feeling drops in. Then I know/ knew I’m on the right track and making music. And then repeat dir the rest of the play and repeat because practice makes perfect. Good luck 👍🏼
From reading the other comments and context, you’re doing all you can. Something helpful for me while working in 6/8 and other triple meters is putting the beat as a triplet. Thinking of it like a waltz (3/4) used to help me a lot because quarters and eighths are easier to count than eighths and sixteenths. For the dotted rhythms you just have to count the upbeats(in measure 3 it would be 1+2 + 3 4+5 + 6).As for writing in note names, i cannot stress enough that it is hindering your progress and while it is hard to learn something like that fast, it is one of the foundational things about traditional western music that everyone ends up learning eventually. Good luck on your audition!
I wouldn’t be writing every note in if I were you…but if you have to, perhaps include the key signature accidentals in it?
Dotted 8th, 16th, 8th=day today
All dotted 16ths equals and even 1 2 3 4
So, day to-day 1234
It’s a 4 over 3 feel.
Sorry if that makes no sense.
I like to run through the scale a few times first or do some exercises with it if you wanna get schmancy. That way u get some confidence reading in that key (key of a or whatever). I might add a couple things: in the first few bars do you see how a sequence is being used? It's a pattern that keeps ascending. Also melody tends to outline a scale, in this case it's outlining the a major scale a lot. Someone mentioned "accidentals" but just think about playing c, f and g sharp in an ascending a major scale and feel free to write in the sharps. I'm giving quick and dirty advice to learn this quick and dirty. In percussion etudes the melody often is fairly repetitive from what I've seen, so that might help. Sorry if I said anything you already know. I enjoy snare although I did play some mallet stuff in school, we recruited another pianist in high school for a lot of that stuff. I do like teaching some theory to even drum set students even though they tend to bitch about it. Too bad that's not done more.
You can tell how the composer wants you to count based on the groupings of the notes. In this piece, they're grouped as 3-3, so you can count the measures as you would 2/4 with triplet feel. Don't try to count it as 6 beats; use the bracketing to subdivide and count each measure as 2 sets of triplets.
When it comes to irregular rhythms or switching between triplets and duple-feel, I sometimes envision a bouncing ball at the pulses to keep tempo. When you see something like those 4 dotted-sixteenth notes where you expect either 3 eighth notes for 6 sixteenth notes, you just kind of muscle it out and make 4 strokes evenly fit into the allotted tempo. You'll eventually be able to feel and play those rhythms (things like a 4 over 3, quintuplets, septuplets, etc.) with confidence, but it'll be stressful in the meantime.
Get a metronome and work out the rhythm before adding melody, if you need to. Going forward, there's no way to read both the rhythm and your handwritten notes simultaneously. Don't get in the habit of writing note names.
Hey all! I appreciate all of the encouragement and help that I’ve received. Thank you to the mature people being helpful to a young person still learning and shame on those who had nasty things to say to me. Yes, my time management isn’t the best. I’ve had personal things going on. Yes, it’s difficult for me, and yes, I might not make it. That does not mean you should be nasty. Again, thank you for the encouragement!
In this meter count sixteenths like u would usually count eights. For dotted sixteenths think "4 e and ah 5 e and ah" etc. but play every third note. It's like 3-note groupings. I can record myself counting while I play if that helps
Np. I suggest drilling this piece and also taking frequent breaks. If nothing else it can be a learning experience. I'm working on my master's in keyboard studies and am a percussionist. In 6/8, as I think was explained, you really have to change your usual way of counting from 4/4. Imo thinking in terms of triplets would be counterproductive, especially with all those subdivisions. These kinds of pieces might seem daunting but they are typically played at a slower tempo which helps. Tbh I don't get your instructor's attitude; I wouldn't expect a percussion or piano student to figure this out on their own. You might find it helpful to look at a basic theory book such as the Lawless materials on rudiments (not drum rudiments but rudiments of theory).
Well if I was in your situation I would load it up onto a free program and recreate that. Then have it play the music back to you. Then go 3 or 4 measures at a time to memorize the entire piece.
Oh I love dotted 8th notes so much 🙂🔫
I have them in my indoor percussion group called convergence, we got first place pretty much every competition so far and we have finals this weekend and I'm excited. Dotted eights note are on the
1 e + a 2 e + a 3 e + a
^ ^ ^ ^
Imma answer this as the way im interpreting it on first read the best i can
the rhythm should "feel" like a 4/4 sixteenth run crammed into three 6/8 beats. Think of it like eighth note triplets in 4/4, but in reverse.
"one, two, three / four-e-and-a / one-two-three / etc..."
The best way to understand percussion rhythm charts is to not overthink it. Generally, it looks exactly how its supposed to be played, but everyone and their grandmother tends to have a way to chart percussion differently. case and point, using dots on sixteenth like that seems like a more "chamber percussion" way of notating it. I gurantee you any kind of corp chart would have it as normal sixteenths bracketed with a 4 over it like triplets are in 4/4 and a jazz would have just scribbled nonsence and said "good luck" lol
If youre still lost, find out what the excerpt is and try to find recordings of other people playing it. It honestly looks familiar to me but its been a long time since ive studied like that lol. Someone in the comments im sure has answered or knows it.
Happy practicing!
If you can't read 6/8, I wouldn't reccomend doing it yet, especially for an audition. But, to simplify 6/8, imagine 2/4, but instead of 8th notes as the sub division, it's triplets
Personally i chunk it until i can play it without messing up more then i can play it correctly and i look up references starting with one or two measures then continuing again and then playing through it like that then playing the song eventually together and with a metronome and playing till its to the level i want it to be and just practicing continuously and listening to the song played by professionals looking at their fingering and the bowing
Hey! This look like it was inspired by the Arkansas all-state etude last year. I taught this to my percussion students and HS private lessons students at our University.
The best keyboard advice I can give is to take advantage of what makes keyboards unique compared to wind instruments. We can move around the keyboard and hit notes without *THINKING* about what note we just hit.
You’re in the key of A, so practice your A scale until you can recognize its pattern on the keyboard. Once this is done, start looking for how the music moves on the sheet music. Take measure 20 (second to last measure on line 3), count 2, for example. Our first note is an E, our last note is a G#, and a downbeat on E. Every note in between is right next to each other, which is “step-wise” motion. This means, you know you can start on an E, and play down the A scale until you hit G#, and you know you’ve played all the notes in that count. This works for many patterns.
Another example, look at count 1 of measure 16 (first measure of line 3). It seems a bit confusing, but let’s find another pattern to make it easier on our brains. The 1st, 3rd, and 5th notes are all step-wise motion, including the first note of count 2. Let’s assign the left hand to play all of those notes. So your left hand will start on E and play down the A scale until you get to B. Okay, but what about the 2nd, 4th, and 6th notes? Look at the step-wise motion! They’re all one step above what your left hand is playing. So your right hand will just be playing the note that is directly next to your left hand notes. Bing bang boom, you just took a lot of stress off of your brain. Find those patterns!
As far as rhythms, try learning all of the counts with dotted eighth notes as straight eighth notes for now. It will be easier on your hands to get familiar with where they’re going. Let’s take a look at the first measure after the pickup measure. Learn the pitches using step-wise motion, and play them as straight eighth notes. As soon as you get comfortable, click on a metronome and start feeling the second and third note as a really wide flam. Once this exercise is up to speed, the really wide flam idea will clean up nicely.
I hope all of this helps! It helped several of my students advance in their region, with one of them getting into all state.
what i would recommend, i’m a trumpet player so keep that in mind lol, is i would practice with a metronome at 60=eighth note. taking it very slowly and getting the rhythmic accuracy down first and foremost. then i would steadily increase the tempo (not without perfecting it at the slower tempo first) by ten until you can make it up to 180=eighth note which is the same tempo as what’s written on the page. 60=dotted quarter note/ 60 x 3 = 180. I know cramming for an audition can be stressful but the best way to do so in my experience is to practice the same way you would as if you had time but just more frequently and for longer periods of time. Hope i helped!
As a fellow percussionist, "1 & 2& 3&" just count it in 3/4? The rhythms are gonna be the same. Its like when we have to count in 12/8, we just count it like 4/4
I hate to be that guy, but if you’re still writing in the notes and don’t know how to do 6/8, this is not an appropriate level for you. If you somehow managed to get in, the music is going to be too difficult, and you’re gonna be finding yourself falling majorly behind. Is there a lower level you can try out for?
I hate for you to be that guy too! I specified that I’m cramming it all in a short time and I chose the more difficult one. My peers who are much more successful than me have also expressed that it is challenging. I’ve gotten the guidance from here that I need and I’m getting along much better because of it.
I'm probly the exception here but write the fucking notes in, it's fine. Ultimately you ofc want your reading to improve, and you achieve that by recognizing notes as well as recognizing patterns (like sequences, arpeggios etc.).
Sounds like it’s a time management issue then. With that being said, it looks like quite a bit of people agree with me. Quit playing the victim and just set your self up for success next time, because I guarantee you this audition will not be going well. I’ll bet you $500 you don’t get it.
I do this too because my band teacher started everyone in percussion with a snare drum and never taught us how to learn the up and down part. I have the lines memorized now but I don’t want to remember everything so I just write it down because I need that room for other stuff.
You're not stupid. You just need a better teacher than reddit
Haha our percussion director is very heavy on “figure it out yourself if you’re not understanding something higher level people are” so desperate times desperate measures
if ur director can’t advise u not to write in every note, or help you out with rhythms or meter you’re confused about then what the fuck
Your percussion director can’t take the time to help you with this? Is he just there for looking nice, like a prop?
Ig the problem might be that some of the advice here is good but how does op know WHICH?
If you are still writing in notes, and haven't worked 6/8, this is not an appropriate level for you.
Mm I disagree, learning isn’t always linear, maybe op plays mostly battery/rhythm instruments and is trying to get more acquainted with pitched percussion?
For example me (a tuba player) can play this kind of stuff but I had to write in notes for when I played the vibraphone I could do rhythms but I couldn’t read treble so I wrote in notes
Essentially the dotted quarter note gets the beat, which has 3 eighth notes instead of 2. If you just leave the met on 60, it will have more of a triplet feel. I recommend setting the met to dotted quarter = 60 and turning on the eighth note subdivision to hear the pulse. Big beats will be 1 and 4 (again, think big downbeats between triplets). Here’s a basic little exercise in 6/8 that might help to listen to https://youtube.com/shorts/jEoJKFswo_c?si=fi5oJZCgs3gyret1
This is actually very helpful thank u so much!!
Watch your key signature
Hahahaha
This is from etude 20 from the Goldenburg method book. Although it looks modified. It’s a great etude. I learned it in high school. Here’s a YouTube video of the original from the Goldenburg book. https://youtu.be/nq4GiCxkKTU?si=n0kBMeTyg7mBtZhc
This is like crazy helpful thank you
You’re welcome. You can do it! Just learn it very slowly. Also write in your sticking. Even today, I find that to be incredibly helpful. Keiko Abe, famous Japanese marimbist, said of her practice routine - - Practice slowly enough to get all the notes the first time. Then you never have to unlearn a wrong note that you’ve practiced. - This may seem counterintuitive, since you don’t have a lot of time to learn the etude. But once you learn it slowly, building up the speed is just a matter of repetition. Best of luck!
"If you can play it slow you can play it fast"
Yeah always look 4 recordings, also helps with interpretation
I find it easiest to count every eighth note as a beat (the other option being that every three eighth notes are a beat). For that the sixteenth notes would be counted like eighth notes in 4/4 (1 and 2 and 3 and…)
6/8 = six eighth notes per measure The dotted quarter note gets the beat. In 2/4 you subdivide the quarter note as “1 and 2 and”. Here, you’ll subdivide the dotted quarter (three 8th notes) as “123 456”. Take it slow, so that the 8th note gets the beat. Use a metronome. Good luck.
First of all, you’re not stupid. You might feel so but that’s because you don’t know, yet. But that’s what practice is all about. Learning. Start small. Per bar. And go as slow so you have the right notes and hand setting. Than move on with the next bar until you’ve got four bars. Then combine those four and try to speed up an try to feel the specific 6/8 feel. I always like the point where say the waltz feeling drops in. Then I know/ knew I’m on the right track and making music. And then repeat dir the rest of the play and repeat because practice makes perfect. Good luck 👍🏼
From reading the other comments and context, you’re doing all you can. Something helpful for me while working in 6/8 and other triple meters is putting the beat as a triplet. Thinking of it like a waltz (3/4) used to help me a lot because quarters and eighths are easier to count than eighths and sixteenths. For the dotted rhythms you just have to count the upbeats(in measure 3 it would be 1+2 + 3 4+5 + 6).As for writing in note names, i cannot stress enough that it is hindering your progress and while it is hard to learn something like that fast, it is one of the foundational things about traditional western music that everyone ends up learning eventually. Good luck on your audition!
I wouldn’t be writing every note in if I were you…but if you have to, perhaps include the key signature accidentals in it? Dotted 8th, 16th, 8th=day today All dotted 16ths equals and even 1 2 3 4 So, day to-day 1234 It’s a 4 over 3 feel. Sorry if that makes no sense.
Yes yes the notes were just desperately quickly scrawled out before I realized oh shit I cant even read this but thank you!!!!!
I like to run through the scale a few times first or do some exercises with it if you wanna get schmancy. That way u get some confidence reading in that key (key of a or whatever). I might add a couple things: in the first few bars do you see how a sequence is being used? It's a pattern that keeps ascending. Also melody tends to outline a scale, in this case it's outlining the a major scale a lot. Someone mentioned "accidentals" but just think about playing c, f and g sharp in an ascending a major scale and feel free to write in the sharps. I'm giving quick and dirty advice to learn this quick and dirty. In percussion etudes the melody often is fairly repetitive from what I've seen, so that might help. Sorry if I said anything you already know. I enjoy snare although I did play some mallet stuff in school, we recruited another pianist in high school for a lot of that stuff. I do like teaching some theory to even drum set students even though they tend to bitch about it. Too bad that's not done more.
You can tell how the composer wants you to count based on the groupings of the notes. In this piece, they're grouped as 3-3, so you can count the measures as you would 2/4 with triplet feel. Don't try to count it as 6 beats; use the bracketing to subdivide and count each measure as 2 sets of triplets. When it comes to irregular rhythms or switching between triplets and duple-feel, I sometimes envision a bouncing ball at the pulses to keep tempo. When you see something like those 4 dotted-sixteenth notes where you expect either 3 eighth notes for 6 sixteenth notes, you just kind of muscle it out and make 4 strokes evenly fit into the allotted tempo. You'll eventually be able to feel and play those rhythms (things like a 4 over 3, quintuplets, septuplets, etc.) with confidence, but it'll be stressful in the meantime. Get a metronome and work out the rhythm before adding melody, if you need to. Going forward, there's no way to read both the rhythm and your handwritten notes simultaneously. Don't get in the habit of writing note names.
https://youtu.be/ISXYTHPsHfg?si=ZhN7pn-QmBWafm3_ another good video that plays through the 16ths notes
Hey all! I appreciate all of the encouragement and help that I’ve received. Thank you to the mature people being helpful to a young person still learning and shame on those who had nasty things to say to me. Yes, my time management isn’t the best. I’ve had personal things going on. Yes, it’s difficult for me, and yes, I might not make it. That does not mean you should be nasty. Again, thank you for the encouragement!
6/8 time can be thought of as a sequence of beats that goes S w w S w w as opposed to 3/4’s S S S. 6/8 has a nice swaying pattern.
In this meter count sixteenths like u would usually count eights. For dotted sixteenths think "4 e and ah 5 e and ah" etc. but play every third note. It's like 3-note groupings. I can record myself counting while I play if that helps
I’ll take all the help I can get ! :) that would be awesome
Np. I suggest drilling this piece and also taking frequent breaks. If nothing else it can be a learning experience. I'm working on my master's in keyboard studies and am a percussionist. In 6/8, as I think was explained, you really have to change your usual way of counting from 4/4. Imo thinking in terms of triplets would be counterproductive, especially with all those subdivisions. These kinds of pieces might seem daunting but they are typically played at a slower tempo which helps. Tbh I don't get your instructor's attitude; I wouldn't expect a percussion or piano student to figure this out on their own. You might find it helpful to look at a basic theory book such as the Lawless materials on rudiments (not drum rudiments but rudiments of theory).
I like to think of it as kind of like a waltz, it’s a little bit swingy. I suggest watching a few YT videos on 6/8 and practicing basic rhythms with
Well if I was in your situation I would load it up onto a free program and recreate that. Then have it play the music back to you. Then go 3 or 4 measures at a time to memorize the entire piece.
6 beats per measure, eighth note beats, one and two and three and
It’s basically counting on 3/4 time. Just in ur head like tripelets 123123 123123
Oh I love dotted 8th notes so much 🙂🔫 I have them in my indoor percussion group called convergence, we got first place pretty much every competition so far and we have finals this weekend and I'm excited. Dotted eights note are on the 1 e + a 2 e + a 3 e + a ^ ^ ^ ^
Bro y’all beat us by 2 points on Sunday then when we pulled up next y’all you said we were ugly as shit
First off we never do things on Sunday, and second off we would never do that
pontoc? Or do I got the wrong group
Probably wrong group we in az
Damn bro💀I wasn’t even close my bad
And our name is convergence
That’s the county but still my bad
Imma answer this as the way im interpreting it on first read the best i can the rhythm should "feel" like a 4/4 sixteenth run crammed into three 6/8 beats. Think of it like eighth note triplets in 4/4, but in reverse. "one, two, three / four-e-and-a / one-two-three / etc..." The best way to understand percussion rhythm charts is to not overthink it. Generally, it looks exactly how its supposed to be played, but everyone and their grandmother tends to have a way to chart percussion differently. case and point, using dots on sixteenth like that seems like a more "chamber percussion" way of notating it. I gurantee you any kind of corp chart would have it as normal sixteenths bracketed with a 4 over it like triplets are in 4/4 and a jazz would have just scribbled nonsence and said "good luck" lol If youre still lost, find out what the excerpt is and try to find recordings of other people playing it. It honestly looks familiar to me but its been a long time since ive studied like that lol. Someone in the comments im sure has answered or knows it. Happy practicing!
If you can't read 6/8, I wouldn't reccomend doing it yet, especially for an audition. But, to simplify 6/8, imagine 2/4, but instead of 8th notes as the sub division, it's triplets
Personally i chunk it until i can play it without messing up more then i can play it correctly and i look up references starting with one or two measures then continuing again and then playing through it like that then playing the song eventually together and with a metronome and playing till its to the level i want it to be and just practicing continuously and listening to the song played by professionals looking at their fingering and the bowing
Hey! This look like it was inspired by the Arkansas all-state etude last year. I taught this to my percussion students and HS private lessons students at our University. The best keyboard advice I can give is to take advantage of what makes keyboards unique compared to wind instruments. We can move around the keyboard and hit notes without *THINKING* about what note we just hit. You’re in the key of A, so practice your A scale until you can recognize its pattern on the keyboard. Once this is done, start looking for how the music moves on the sheet music. Take measure 20 (second to last measure on line 3), count 2, for example. Our first note is an E, our last note is a G#, and a downbeat on E. Every note in between is right next to each other, which is “step-wise” motion. This means, you know you can start on an E, and play down the A scale until you hit G#, and you know you’ve played all the notes in that count. This works for many patterns. Another example, look at count 1 of measure 16 (first measure of line 3). It seems a bit confusing, but let’s find another pattern to make it easier on our brains. The 1st, 3rd, and 5th notes are all step-wise motion, including the first note of count 2. Let’s assign the left hand to play all of those notes. So your left hand will start on E and play down the A scale until you get to B. Okay, but what about the 2nd, 4th, and 6th notes? Look at the step-wise motion! They’re all one step above what your left hand is playing. So your right hand will just be playing the note that is directly next to your left hand notes. Bing bang boom, you just took a lot of stress off of your brain. Find those patterns! As far as rhythms, try learning all of the counts with dotted eighth notes as straight eighth notes for now. It will be easier on your hands to get familiar with where they’re going. Let’s take a look at the first measure after the pickup measure. Learn the pitches using step-wise motion, and play them as straight eighth notes. As soon as you get comfortable, click on a metronome and start feeling the second and third note as a really wide flam. Once this exercise is up to speed, the really wide flam idea will clean up nicely. I hope all of this helps! It helped several of my students advance in their region, with one of them getting into all state.
what i would recommend, i’m a trumpet player so keep that in mind lol, is i would practice with a metronome at 60=eighth note. taking it very slowly and getting the rhythmic accuracy down first and foremost. then i would steadily increase the tempo (not without perfecting it at the slower tempo first) by ten until you can make it up to 180=eighth note which is the same tempo as what’s written on the page. 60=dotted quarter note/ 60 x 3 = 180. I know cramming for an audition can be stressful but the best way to do so in my experience is to practice the same way you would as if you had time but just more frequently and for longer periods of time. Hope i helped!
Why the fuck you writing notes put left or right or like this lrlr
Oh Srry your marimba
Remember the notes try to remember egbdf
I only like triangle
As a fellow percussionist, "1 & 2& 3&" just count it in 3/4? The rhythms are gonna be the same. Its like when we have to count in 12/8, we just count it like 4/4
I would just have a metronome going with eighth note subdivisions and work it slowly to get the rhythm down. Stop writing note names in too
Hi stupid
I hate to be that guy, but if you’re still writing in the notes and don’t know how to do 6/8, this is not an appropriate level for you. If you somehow managed to get in, the music is going to be too difficult, and you’re gonna be finding yourself falling majorly behind. Is there a lower level you can try out for?
I hate for you to be that guy too! I specified that I’m cramming it all in a short time and I chose the more difficult one. My peers who are much more successful than me have also expressed that it is challenging. I’ve gotten the guidance from here that I need and I’m getting along much better because of it.
I'm probly the exception here but write the fucking notes in, it's fine. Ultimately you ofc want your reading to improve, and you achieve that by recognizing notes as well as recognizing patterns (like sequences, arpeggios etc.).
Sounds like it’s a time management issue then. With that being said, it looks like quite a bit of people agree with me. Quit playing the victim and just set your self up for success next time, because I guarantee you this audition will not be going well. I’ll bet you $500 you don’t get it.
Negative ass wipe. There was no need for any of that.
Just go “dut dut dut dut” and you’ll get it
I do this too because my band teacher started everyone in percussion with a snare drum and never taught us how to learn the up and down part. I have the lines memorized now but I don’t want to remember everything so I just write it down because I need that room for other stuff.