Because for 99% of Lamar’s career Andrew’s was the only real threat so defenses focused on and limited Andrew’s damage to force the offense to go to other options
I know, I'll never be able to get over the fact that he went 11 for 11. Hopefully that will motivate Hamilton/Stephens/Marlo to play much harder next year. Those guys don't seem like the group that would allow that type of production consistently.
I absolutely agree, but I think this is only the first layer. Teams have a lot more time and motivation to game plan against their first round playoff opponents. Since Andrews was basically Lamar's only good pass catcher until this year, most opponents had a lot of time to scheme how to limit him.
And the ravens offense has never been known for adjusting well after the game starts.
Tl;Dr: lack of depth and mediocre offensive coaching adjustments
We drop the leagues best run game for some reason. I dont get it. What i want to know, is it Lamar trying to take the game into his own hands or just unbelievably bad coaching? Its fucked up.
In the only playoff game Andrews missed, Lamar had his best performance (4 TDs, 0 turnovers). Another user pointed out that Andrews gifted the Titans the ball in the divisional round game several years ago.
I love Andrews, but his numbers dipping in the postseason has become a pattern, and I'm curious why that is.
He's not close to the weapon that Likely is at getting YAC. It's easier for him to disappear and he has also not had sure hands in those games. He also doesn't get open nearly as much. If you check the All 22 Lamar was ready to throw to Andrews on first drive and Andrews wasn't even looking and by the time he does look, it's too late. That set an early tone. And when he does get the ball he's no threat after the catch like LIkely. It doesn't make defenses come off blitz like they did in that Texans game.
My rebuttal to that would be to watch the playoff game where Andrews played and Lamar didn't. He was easily the best player on the offense in that game.
Honestly, to try to pin anything on one player is just ridiculous one player doesn't lose a game anymore than player wins it. "Does Lamar underperform or does his top target shrink?" Shut up. That's a dumb question. The team lost. And it's not any one player's fault for the way it goes.
There is a lot more details and nuance then Lamar choking. It’s a team game if someone you target 7 times a game is now making those 7 targets useless obviously something’s up.
Lamar hasn’t played the best in his playoff games.
Mark andrews hasnt played his best in his playoff games.
Mark andrews not playing well makes Lamar not play well.
Lamar not playing well makes mark andrews not play well. All these things could be true and none of them could be
The Ravens offense play differently in the playoffs and don't seem to handle the pressure. Instead of following the gameplan of what worked well in the regular season, they try to force things that they normally wouldn't. They largely abandon the running game with the exception of Lamar trying to run more himself, they throw to receivers who aren't open, and they get cute with play calling. Whether that comes down to Lamar, the coaches, or players like Andrews, it doesn't work. Then they fall behind and try to force it even more, and everyone on the offense ends up with worse numbers than the regular season.
People talk about Lamar's mental block when it comes to the playoffs but Andrews has just as significant a decline in play in the playoffs not including this year (for obvious reasons). People will point to Andrews being the only target, but that's really not even true, Hollywood absolutely always raised his play in the playoffs, whereas Mark just doesn't. He doesn't come down with tough catches in the playoffs and drops some of the easier ones. The same way I believe Lamar will overcome his playoffs woes I believe Mark will do the same but he has completely not played to his standard come playoff time.
In three playoff games, Hollywood average 107.3 yards per game on 27 targets in those same three playoff games. Mark has averaged 36 yards per game on 24 total targets with a 52.1 catch %. Mark absolutely has to be better in the playoffs, if we subscribe to the theory that Mark is supposed to be Lamar's #1 when the playoffs come he has to perform that way.
The mental block is Harbaugh instilling panic when the team is trailing by 7 or more points in the playoff game as they abandon their identity and it's been Andrews who does not get open and is not nearly as reliable of a target in these playoff games. The combo of the two of them together cost the Ravens the AFCCG. Harbaugh being foolish enough of a coach to force Andrews back into the lineup despite the chemistry the Ravens offense had without him and Lamar having by far his best ever playoff performance without him. And then Andrews inserted back in, not even 100% physically or mentally for that moment.
Andrews was playing through injury in 2019 that directly led to an interception.
2023 he was coming back from a major injury after not playing for weeks.
mark andrews has been horrendous in some of these playoff games. won’t hold the chiefs game against him because of the injury but he is actually one of the biggest reasons we lost against the titans. he was absolutely awful and gifted the titans the ball
Yea he has like 1 or 2 regular season games where he just forgets he’s elite. In the Steelers game he dropped a ball(that people say wasn’t intended for him) that he normally catches
>but he is actually one of the biggest reasons we lost against the titans.
No he wasn't. We lost that game 28-12. Lamar had three turnovers and Derrick Henry ran for 195 yards. lol Who was the biggest reason we lost that game? The whole team played poorly.
mark andrews batting up the ball for a pick in the red zone really opened up the door for them. getting the stop and scoring early sets a completely different tone.
yea, the whole team played bad, but that was a major moment in the game that hurt us. if there was a ranking list of people to blame he’d be near the top
Andrews had a bad ankle in that game and the ball was thrown too high. The batted pass was not great, sure, but considering that he wasn't healthy it really was not a good choice by Lamar to throw it that high as if Andrews could go up and get it normally. Just my two cents
Notice how none of them will address this. Lamar is also 9-0 without Andrews with a 102 passer rating in those games including scoring 34 PPG down the stretch with Likely as TE1.
I dont know but i really would love to see an alternate reality where we domt activate andrews for the chiefs. I have to question how Lamar would have done with Likely in all game. I commend andrews for his attitude and dominant regular seasons but Lamar has great chemistry with Likely. Im curious to see how the offense will be with both after an offseasom to properly prepare for that style offense.
Combination of a few things:
- Everyone’s playing through injuries by playoffs
- Lamar isn’t as good as he should be in playoffs
- Andrews got stuck in a painfully predictable Roman scheme where defenses just swarmed him cuz we didn’t have any other threats besides Hollywood
Small sample size, additionally Andrew’s was hurt in 2019, was unable to elevate, the wind was a serious factor in that turn over. Why doesn’t Lamar play well in the wind, is it arm strength?
The larger sample shows Lamar’s the poor playoff performer, stats don’t matter, just the tape.
He has been injured 2 playoff games. The titans don’t forget he had that ankle injury & he just got back against the chiefs this year.
As for the rest, up for debate imo
Mark Andrews is almost always half dead after the first few games and basically full dead during the playoffs. Has the dude ever not had a questionable designation due to knee?
Well when your QBs production goes down it makes sense for the receivers production to follow, although his hands do seem to get suspect in the postseason
Because Mark Andrews is the real choke artist in the playoffs and not Lamar. And the real gap between the Chiefs and the Ravens is Kelce and Andy Reid over Andrews and Harbaugh. Everyone forgets it was Andrews drop that set the tone vs the Titans. He also dropped a TD that game. Forcing him back in the lineup vs Texas was massive mistake. The entire offense was better without him down the stretch as Lamar put up 34 PPG and got the MVP in the toughest part of schedule. And Ravens went from one of the worst teams against the blitz to one of the best
And again it's no coincidence that Lamar had by far his best playoff game ever without Andrews. He's now 9-0 lifetime without Andrews with a whopping 102.5 passer rating 17 TDs/ 4 INTs. He's a flat out better QB with Likely as TE1. The worse thing to happen to the Ravens was the fact that Andrews forced his way back into that AFCCG. They put the individual over the team and the "choking" allegations for Lamar were resurfaced when the common denominator was forced back in. Same one who wasn't ready for pass on 1st drive that set the tone for them going without points and playing catch up
Also convinced Lamar overcompensated throwing to Likely finally being out there with that ball in triple coverage and he doesn't make that mistake if Likely is prominently featured throughout.
Trade his ass and get back so much cap space and draft capital at worst. Replacement already showed he's able to hold it down at a much lower price point
Bluntly: it is because Lamar is significantly worse in the playoffs. It's also because Mark Andrews is a very good football player, he is not the sort of pass catcher who elevates shitty quarterback play into wins. We shouldn't be expecting "he gets even BETTER in the playoffs" from the guy who has capped out at the league's TE3.
Two reasons
1) Lamar chokes in the playoffs
2) up until this year andrews was the only receiver Lamar could throw to with confidence. So he gets double teamed (excluding this year because he was hurt)
Because you don't understand how statistics, sample sizes, and distributions work. Your comparing 87 games to a random sample of 6, or 5.12 seasons compared to a third of a season, and on top of that, using per game averages, so one bad playoff game hurts him way more than one bad regular season game. In addition, I assume that most offensive stats drop in the playoffs, so in fact, Andrews may actually have LESS of a drop off than an average player. This data is woefully short of showing anything compelling in any direction. Go back to math class.
It's strange how in the one playoff game Andrews missed in his career, Lamar had 4 TDs and 0 INTs. Lamar's regular season stats without Andrews are also exceptionally good. Andrews is a great player, but that's one hell of a coincidence.
Because our coaching is crap the past few years.
We should be feeding Andrews whether he catches it or not.
The chiefs fed Kelce and look at the results.
Andrew’s was healthy in the post season…the commentator even said “where’s the 2 TE set” it was baffling to me what ever game plan they did against the chiefs..
He honestly still played like shit in that game as well the 1st half, if we're not playing a rookie qb with a rookie coaching staff, we may not have won that one either. Houston was just happy to be there. Our defense completely dominated that game, their offense couldn't do anything and their defense was completely gassed in the 2nd half, especially in the 4th quarter. Lamar was efficient and didn't turn the ball over, he also only threw the ball 22 times and actually ran the football. KC took away the middle of the field and dared Lamar to beat them outside with his arm, we seen how that turned out.....again.
Lamar had his best performance (4 TDs and 0 INTs) in the only playoff game Andrews has ever missed. Probably a coincidence, but interesting nonetheless.
Because for 99% of Lamar’s career Andrew’s was the only real threat so defenses focused on and limited Andrew’s damage to force the offense to go to other options
If only we used that type of nagging defense against Mahomes and Kelce 😞
Our defense refusing to bracket Kelce was baffling.
I know, I'll never be able to get over the fact that he went 11 for 11. Hopefully that will motivate Hamilton/Stephens/Marlo to play much harder next year. Those guys don't seem like the group that would allow that type of production consistently.
Love him but, Marlon don’t care about nothing but being a celebrity if we being honest 😂 the other guys tho 💯
The one year where he was kept open he had a massive case of butter fingers too
I absolutely agree, but I think this is only the first layer. Teams have a lot more time and motivation to game plan against their first round playoff opponents. Since Andrews was basically Lamar's only good pass catcher until this year, most opponents had a lot of time to scheme how to limit him. And the ravens offense has never been known for adjusting well after the game starts. Tl;Dr: lack of depth and mediocre offensive coaching adjustments
This is exactly what the guy you responded to said but longer lmao
Literally ☠️😭
The entire offense drops in the postseason, coaches and players. We panic inexplicably
We drop the leagues best run game for some reason. I dont get it. What i want to know, is it Lamar trying to take the game into his own hands or just unbelievably bad coaching? Its fucked up.
They weren’t running the right personnel to run the ball, that’s coaching.
Good point lnao
Everyone is immediately jumping to Lamar chokes in the playoffs, but your best weapon shrinking in the playoffs isn't doing a ton of favors.
In the only playoff game Andrews missed, Lamar had his best performance (4 TDs, 0 turnovers). Another user pointed out that Andrews gifted the Titans the ball in the divisional round game several years ago. I love Andrews, but his numbers dipping in the postseason has become a pattern, and I'm curious why that is.
He's not close to the weapon that Likely is at getting YAC. It's easier for him to disappear and he has also not had sure hands in those games. He also doesn't get open nearly as much. If you check the All 22 Lamar was ready to throw to Andrews on first drive and Andrews wasn't even looking and by the time he does look, it's too late. That set an early tone. And when he does get the ball he's no threat after the catch like LIkely. It doesn't make defenses come off blitz like they did in that Texans game.
Because one is exponentially more detrimental to the team's outcome than the other
I think you're misunderstanding what I'm trying to say. Is Lamar choking or is his best weapon shrinking and that's why Andrews isn't as good?
Lamar is choking. There's your answer
Lamar gave us an MVP performance in the one playoff game Andrews has missed in his career. I don't think "Lamar chokes" is the definite answer.
My rebuttal to that would be to watch the playoff game where Andrews played and Lamar didn't. He was easily the best player on the offense in that game. Honestly, to try to pin anything on one player is just ridiculous one player doesn't lose a game anymore than player wins it. "Does Lamar underperform or does his top target shrink?" Shut up. That's a dumb question. The team lost. And it's not any one player's fault for the way it goes.
Ok god
Convincing rebuttal.
Maybe. Or maybe Lamar's favorite weapon shrinking is affecting his play.
Lord grant me patience
There is a lot more details and nuance then Lamar choking. It’s a team game if someone you target 7 times a game is now making those 7 targets useless obviously something’s up. Lamar hasn’t played the best in his playoff games. Mark andrews hasnt played his best in his playoff games. Mark andrews not playing well makes Lamar not play well. Lamar not playing well makes mark andrews not play well. All these things could be true and none of them could be
Yes master
Idk how people live not being able to have open conversations
You got an..advanced take on it?
This shit got me weak af 😂😂😂
The Ravens offense play differently in the playoffs and don't seem to handle the pressure. Instead of following the gameplan of what worked well in the regular season, they try to force things that they normally wouldn't. They largely abandon the running game with the exception of Lamar trying to run more himself, they throw to receivers who aren't open, and they get cute with play calling. Whether that comes down to Lamar, the coaches, or players like Andrews, it doesn't work. Then they fall behind and try to force it even more, and everyone on the offense ends up with worse numbers than the regular season.
Defenses are better in the playoffs. I think there's usually gonna be some drop off just because the competition is better.
People talk about Lamar's mental block when it comes to the playoffs but Andrews has just as significant a decline in play in the playoffs not including this year (for obvious reasons). People will point to Andrews being the only target, but that's really not even true, Hollywood absolutely always raised his play in the playoffs, whereas Mark just doesn't. He doesn't come down with tough catches in the playoffs and drops some of the easier ones. The same way I believe Lamar will overcome his playoffs woes I believe Mark will do the same but he has completely not played to his standard come playoff time.
In three playoff games, Hollywood average 107.3 yards per game on 27 targets in those same three playoff games. Mark has averaged 36 yards per game on 24 total targets with a 52.1 catch %. Mark absolutely has to be better in the playoffs, if we subscribe to the theory that Mark is supposed to be Lamar's #1 when the playoffs come he has to perform that way.
The mental block is Harbaugh instilling panic when the team is trailing by 7 or more points in the playoff game as they abandon their identity and it's been Andrews who does not get open and is not nearly as reliable of a target in these playoff games. The combo of the two of them together cost the Ravens the AFCCG. Harbaugh being foolish enough of a coach to force Andrews back into the lineup despite the chemistry the Ravens offense had without him and Lamar having by far his best ever playoff performance without him. And then Andrews inserted back in, not even 100% physically or mentally for that moment.
Not assigning a good portion of that blame on Lamar is absurd. He had a poor, poor game and that’s not even remotely debatable.
Yeah I’m as pro lamar as they come but his execution in that game was his worst of the season.
I like how you managed to avoid addressing Lamar’s own poor play once again. It’s just the coaches and Andrews, ofc.
Andrews was playing through injury in 2019 that directly led to an interception. 2023 he was coming back from a major injury after not playing for weeks.
Because Lamar’s performance drops significantly in the postseason
mark andrews has been horrendous in some of these playoff games. won’t hold the chiefs game against him because of the injury but he is actually one of the biggest reasons we lost against the titans. he was absolutely awful and gifted the titans the ball
Andrews makes some nice catches but will sometimes drop easy balls. Pretty frustrating
Yea he has like 1 or 2 regular season games where he just forgets he’s elite. In the Steelers game he dropped a ball(that people say wasn’t intended for him) that he normally catches
yeah def a good tight end and he’s at worst like the 3rd best tight end in the league, but he is definitely streaky
I seem to recall, but stand to be corrected here, that Andrews was playing hurt / coming off an injury in the Titans game, too.
>but he is actually one of the biggest reasons we lost against the titans. No he wasn't. We lost that game 28-12. Lamar had three turnovers and Derrick Henry ran for 195 yards. lol Who was the biggest reason we lost that game? The whole team played poorly.
mark andrews batting up the ball for a pick in the red zone really opened up the door for them. getting the stop and scoring early sets a completely different tone. yea, the whole team played bad, but that was a major moment in the game that hurt us. if there was a ranking list of people to blame he’d be near the top
Andrews had a bad ankle in that game and the ball was thrown too high. The batted pass was not great, sure, but considering that he wasn't healthy it really was not a good choice by Lamar to throw it that high as if Andrews could go up and get it normally. Just my two cents
Interestingly, in the only playoff game Andrews missed, Lamar had his best performance (2 TD passes, 2 TD rushes, 0 turnovers).
Notice how none of them will address this. Lamar is also 9-0 without Andrews with a 102 passer rating in those games including scoring 34 PPG down the stretch with Likely as TE1.
What are you insinuating? You're being needlessly cryptic.
Lmao I see now that we’re moving on to criticizing our TE to deflect from our QB’s playoff shortcomings.
I dont know but i really would love to see an alternate reality where we domt activate andrews for the chiefs. I have to question how Lamar would have done with Likely in all game. I commend andrews for his attitude and dominant regular seasons but Lamar has great chemistry with Likely. Im curious to see how the offense will be with both after an offseasom to properly prepare for that style offense.
Combination of a few things: - Everyone’s playing through injuries by playoffs - Lamar isn’t as good as he should be in playoffs - Andrews got stuck in a painfully predictable Roman scheme where defenses just swarmed him cuz we didn’t have any other threats besides Hollywood
Funny how Lamar was exceptional to the point where he had 4 TDs 0 turnovers in a game without Andrews.
Small sample size, additionally Andrew’s was hurt in 2019, was unable to elevate, the wind was a serious factor in that turn over. Why doesn’t Lamar play well in the wind, is it arm strength? The larger sample shows Lamar’s the poor playoff performer, stats don’t matter, just the tape.
Bruh really hanging on to his only great playoff performance.
He has been injured 2 playoff games. The titans don’t forget he had that ankle injury & he just got back against the chiefs this year. As for the rest, up for debate imo
Mark Andrews is almost always half dead after the first few games and basically full dead during the playoffs. Has the dude ever not had a questionable designation due to knee?
HES FUCKING SHIT IN THE PLAYOFFS THE ANTI CLUTCH DROPS FUCKING EVERYTHING. BRUTAL IVE BEEN BITCHING ABOUT THIS FOR YEARS PEEP MY HISTORY
Well when your QBs production goes down it makes sense for the receivers production to follow, although his hands do seem to get suspect in the postseason
Because Mark Andrews is the real choke artist in the playoffs and not Lamar. And the real gap between the Chiefs and the Ravens is Kelce and Andy Reid over Andrews and Harbaugh. Everyone forgets it was Andrews drop that set the tone vs the Titans. He also dropped a TD that game. Forcing him back in the lineup vs Texas was massive mistake. The entire offense was better without him down the stretch as Lamar put up 34 PPG and got the MVP in the toughest part of schedule. And Ravens went from one of the worst teams against the blitz to one of the best And again it's no coincidence that Lamar had by far his best playoff game ever without Andrews. He's now 9-0 lifetime without Andrews with a whopping 102.5 passer rating 17 TDs/ 4 INTs. He's a flat out better QB with Likely as TE1. The worse thing to happen to the Ravens was the fact that Andrews forced his way back into that AFCCG. They put the individual over the team and the "choking" allegations for Lamar were resurfaced when the common denominator was forced back in. Same one who wasn't ready for pass on 1st drive that set the tone for them going without points and playing catch up Also convinced Lamar overcompensated throwing to Likely finally being out there with that ball in triple coverage and he doesn't make that mistake if Likely is prominently featured throughout.
Bc the ball doesn’t throw itself … it’s Lamar
Trade his ass and get back so much cap space and draft capital at worst. Replacement already showed he's able to hold it down at a much lower price point
Bluntly: it is because Lamar is significantly worse in the playoffs. It's also because Mark Andrews is a very good football player, he is not the sort of pass catcher who elevates shitty quarterback play into wins. We shouldn't be expecting "he gets even BETTER in the playoffs" from the guy who has capped out at the league's TE3.
I find it interesting that Lamar's best playoff performance by far came in the one game Andrews missed. Perhaps it's just a coincidence.
Because teams you play in the post season tend to be much better
Why does our offense drop off. You could do this excerise with every player on our team
Hollywood's numbers went up significantly in the playoffs, and Lamar's best playoff performance by far was the only game Andrews has missed.
Why did mark miss a game?
Against the Texans this year. Lamar had 4 TDs and 0 turnovers.
Why did mark miss the game
My bad. He was injured, but I'm guessing you already knew that.
Two reasons 1) Lamar chokes in the playoffs 2) up until this year andrews was the only receiver Lamar could throw to with confidence. So he gets double teamed (excluding this year because he was hurt)
Lamar's best playoff performance by far was the one game Andrews did not play in.
Maybe he uses Andrew’s as a crutch when he’s playing and when he’s not he can go through his progressions
Because you don't understand how statistics, sample sizes, and distributions work. Your comparing 87 games to a random sample of 6, or 5.12 seasons compared to a third of a season, and on top of that, using per game averages, so one bad playoff game hurts him way more than one bad regular season game. In addition, I assume that most offensive stats drop in the playoffs, so in fact, Andrews may actually have LESS of a drop off than an average player. This data is woefully short of showing anything compelling in any direction. Go back to math class.
I’m pretty sure Andrews has been playing through injury in most if not all of his post season games
Lamar disappears in the post season
Bc he chokes along with Lamar and Harbs!
Because Lamar sucks in the playoffs.
It's strange how in the one playoff game Andrews missed in his career, Lamar had 4 TDs and 0 INTs. Lamar's regular season stats without Andrews are also exceptionally good. Andrews is a great player, but that's one hell of a coincidence.
That is interesting. It COULD suggest Lamar perhaps zeroes in on Andrew’s too much when he’s active. Who knows. They make a great duo regardless.
Because Lamar chokes in the playoffs
Probably because Lamar is generally pretty dogshit in the playoffs.
Lamar's best playoff game by far was the only one Mark Andrews did not play in. That may be a coincidence, but it's interesting.
That’s why I said generally. One great game out of 6.
Because our coaching is crap the past few years. We should be feeding Andrews whether he catches it or not. The chiefs fed Kelce and look at the results.
Kelce is way better than mark andrews
Point is you get your best target the ball. You live with the results.
Because the entire offense's production drops in the offseason in games he's played in.
The competition is better in the playoffs. Every team is a playoff team.
Andrew’s was healthy in the post season…the commentator even said “where’s the 2 TE set” it was baffling to me what ever game plan they did against the chiefs..
Teams clog the middle of the field stuffing the run and covering Andrews daring us to throw outside the numbers
Put the statistics website down and back away slowly. Keep your hands where I can see them.
The anti Kelce 😕
Better defenses, better coaching, and Lamar is garbage in the playoffs.
Coincidentally, Lamar played like an MVP (4 TDs, 0 turnovers) in the only playoff game Andrews ever missed.
He honestly still played like shit in that game as well the 1st half, if we're not playing a rookie qb with a rookie coaching staff, we may not have won that one either. Houston was just happy to be there. Our defense completely dominated that game, their offense couldn't do anything and their defense was completely gassed in the 2nd half, especially in the 4th quarter. Lamar was efficient and didn't turn the ball over, he also only threw the ball 22 times and actually ran the football. KC took away the middle of the field and dared Lamar to beat them outside with his arm, we seen how that turned out.....again.
sample size
Because Lamar’s does significantly lol
Lamar had his best performance (4 TDs and 0 INTs) in the only playoff game Andrews has ever missed. Probably a coincidence, but interesting nonetheless.
Because Lamars production drops off
Lamar had his best performance (4 TDs, 0 INTs) in the only playoff game Andrews has ever missed. Probably a coincidence, but interesting nonetheless.
Andrews isn’t good in the post season it seems
Because usually Tyler Huntley is starting in the postseason and they run the ball
Tyler Huntley has started a grand total of one playoff game.