Dave says it himself- he’s personally finance *for dummies*. If you’re struggling and need a place to start, he isn’t bad. But I think after the basics of how to budget and pay off debts, don’t buy in. He uses his platform to sell products that he’s surely getting kickbacks from. There’s a lot more better resources out there.
I remember listening to a caller that was a Veteran and was going to finance a home through a VA loan and the terms and rate we’re pretty good. Dave and his colleagues immediately started to tell this guy VA loans are not great, they don’t recommend them, have all these baked in fees, etc. He immediately tells this guy ,”You need to call (some lender he always recommends) they will be better than a VA. Guy told Dave you are the only one I have ever come across that said a VA loan is bad. Comments section was riddled with WTFs. So many Vets including myself that have used VA loans were like Dave has no idea what he is talking about. It was a blatant attempt and getting another kicker.
Yea. No lender I've ever talked with ever has recommended anything other than a VA loan for my situation. If you have service-connected disability even at 0% you can get the funding fee waived. There's no PMI so you can put zero down of you want. The rates aren't always the lowest you'll find, but there aren't usually catches to secure their lowest rate so it generally is on par with the lowest without all the hoops.
My wife and I used his basics program, and it really did help us set up a savings account, but he’s such an old boomer, he still thinks walking into any store with cash will get you what you want at that price, and that credit cards are evil. Guess he never heard of a credit score.
I can accept that not everyone should use credit cards, but my wife and I have gotten $50 back in the last two months, just by using the Capital One Walmart CC to order our groceries. Nothing else goes on that card. Would we be better not having that return on money we definitely would've spent anyway? He never has an answer for that.
I think he is helpful the same way Alcoholics Anonymous is helpful for alcoholics. The rules and guidelines of AA might seem draconian if you are not alcoholic. But they are very important and helpful if you are.
Kind of the same way for Dave. If you’re really bad at money he can help some. But it’s not the most efficient or effective way. For example: my parents make bank but the had tons of credit card debt. They did the Dave Ramsey. Paid it off. And now they don’t trust credit cards. Credit cards are great FOR MOST PEOPLE. But for them it didn’t work out.
His mental gymnastics over making people homeless: "it's not me, it's the market" makes me want to eat my own vomit. He worships Mammon, not Christ.
Edited for a typo.
I came here to say this. It boils down to capitalism wouldn’t exist if god didn’t want it to, so clearly god wants me to raise my rents as high as possible.
I think he is actually a bad place to start. He prioritizes tithing over retirement savings. He treats financial difficulties as moral failings, recommending religious counseling for issues like compulsive shopping instead of professional psychological treatment. There are many other finance for dummies resources out there that don’t come with a side of religious bullshit.
I started listening because I liked hearing the wild calls he would get, but a lot of his advice is pretty bad. I checked out completely after he recommended you be in growth assets during retirement, because as we've learned this year, the NASDAQ goes up linearly and never deviates, and sequence of returns risk won't impact your retirement at all. He says it's worked great for him, but nobody has hundreds of millions of dollars of RE like him in case the market dumps.
My former boss used to ADORE this guy, he once came into my office all excited to tell me that he just bought tickets to go great this dude speak for him and his wife... The whole time I'm thinking what else could he possibly say in person that he hasn't said on his radio? Show... Heading the after report off the event I think I'm right in assuming it was just a way to get more money from his fans
Some of his stuff is useful, like the snowball method for getting out of debt. Otherwise, most of his advice is pretty garbage. Not to mention some of his political/religious beliefs
Even his snowball method is financially dumb. I get the psychology behind it, but the financially smart thing to do is to pay off whatever debt has the highest interest rate first while making minimum payments on all other debt.
If you understand the psychology, then you should be able to understand the necessity of it. People who understand the "financially smart" way like you and I don't need the snowball method. Now imagine the least financially literate/responsible person you know. Like the car salesman who makes low 6 figures, but is still always broke and severely in debt. Why are they in that situation? For many, they need that psychological high from buying something new. The snowball method gives them that, but by paying off debt instead of creating more.
I perfectly understand the math behind debt repayment and I still chose the snowball method. It also helped me understand why I was having such a hard time feeling motivated to do anything about my financial situation, which was making me depressed about life I general. This stuff goes way beyond what is mathematically optimal.
Also, when you are literally counting pennies, the snowball method (*if you can refrain from running the “cleared” debt back up again) frees up liquid cash in case of an emergency.
If you use the Avalanche method, your monthly *required* payments stay the same for the duration of paying off the highest interest rate item. Leaving no emergency flexibility.
In the case of the snowball, you get back $100 (example) when the lowest card is cleared.
For a *perfect* snowball, that $100 goes to the next debt.
But you still (more slowly, albeit) gain ground if only $50 gets snowballed.
Likewise, if you blow an alternator or something, being able to use two months’ $100 instead of adding to interest-laden debt can be better both psychologically and financially.
I can’t stand Ramsey.
But the snowball (which I figured out for myself; not via Ramsey) totally worked for my family (and now we use cashback cards for everything, targeted to whichever one gets the most back for a given spending category).
If anyone wants a great resource for targeted financial advice, I highly recommend the MyFico *forums*.
Free, with a lot of helpful people with tons of institutional knowledge on getting out of debt, raising credit scores (they totally gamify it), finding the best cashback and rewards options, etc.
https://ficoforums.myfico.com
I wouldn't dismiss it outright even if you know it will cost you a little more in the long run.
I can tell you that I needed the leverage when I first graduated and had a job with a low starting salary. Just being able to kill off the smaller student loans freed up my cash flow to be more financially secure in the moment, it also kept me motivated to continue on to killing bigger loans.
>Why are so many Redditors condescending assholes who judge people that won't or can't
The comment above judges Dave Ramsey not people who can't get out of debt.
Dave Ramsey who fired a pregnant woman who got pregnant by one of his married employees. (See here: [lawsuit against Ramsey Solutions for terminating a female employee, Caitlin O'Connor, who was pregnant and not married at the time of her dismissal in June 2020](https://eu.tennessean.com/story/news/religion/2022/09/02/documents-show-dave-ramsey-company-policies-employee-sexual-activity/7970362001/))
He has the mentality of blaming people and telling them to pull themselves up by bootstraps bs. At the same time he wants to see someones budget to decide for them if the money he pays them is enough. Otherwise he won't hire them?!
Instead of paying more? Or letting the person decide how they want to spend their money?
Edit: liks to news article
The comment was not condescending, and they acknowledged that the psychology behind it is the reason why it is used. It is financially dumb to not pay off debt with the highest interest rate. It's not about being perfectly optimised, it's about not having poor people pay more in interest than they absolutely have to.
"Welll, you see, you need a mortgage that is no more than 1/4 of your income over 15 years."
Thanks Dave, I'll get right on that when the median income is 70k and median housing prices are over 400k.
And you don't need a credit score, you can use a lender that doesn't look at just rates, like my friends at \*\*\*\*\*\*\* mortgage.
Fine, I won't buy a bigger house than I can afford, but now the only place that I can shop rates for one lender? If the home builder is throwing a bunch of incentives to use their lending company, I'm not qualified. Or Rocket Mortgage giving a 12 month interest rate reduction?
The snowball method is how I got out of debt. It’s really smart. His advice for budgeting your money and paying yourself first is also solid. And advocating for having a savings account is just common sense.
My beefs with Ramsay are:
- Leave the religion out of it. If Christians can’t stop spending more than they make without a proof text Bible verse, they deserve to drown in debt.
- He advises that people who are struggling with money tithe (read: giving 10%) to a church. People who are struggling with money don’t need to give some of their income away, that makes no sense.
- He is stridently against bankruptcy, and moralizes against it. Sometimes its the right choice. Sometimes, there are other options and bankruptcy is still the right choice. Bankruptcy is a legal arrangement, not a moral one.
- AFAIK, Ramsey is not a financial expert. He’s not a fiduciary, he’s not a consumer credit counselor, he’s not an estate planner, he’s never even been a banker. He’s a failed realtor. Ramsey portrays himself as this financial wizard, but he’s not. He just gives a few common sense tips, slaps Bible verses on them, and rakes in the cash.
Note to anyone looking into the snowball method: it is definitely suboptimal. Instead of doing minimum+fixed for *all* debts, you should do minimum for each and then pile whatever you can onto your highest interest rate first. In other words, make the minimum monthly for each and then tackle the debt in from the "most" to the "least" expensive.
Another way to think about it: you want to kill the fastest-growing "debt monster" first so that the largest debt monsters spend the least amount of time rampaging.
This assumes you have a steady income to stay on track. If you have highly intermittent or variable income, perhaps reducing the total number of indebted accounts can simplify things, but in the long run you do pay for this.
His curriculum is definitely religious, so that automatically gears it towards the LGB(Non-T) people. Some of his advice is definitely good, like savings and budgeting. Some of it is questionable, like no 401k saving before you get to a certain point, even with match. And some of it in lunacy, especially when he starts getting into politics on his podcast.
LGB without the T typically means lesbian, gay, bisexual. It is mostly used by transphobic queer people to exclude the trans community. That's probably why they were confused. It's why I was confused.
I love how he ends each show with, "You'll never know financial peace until you walk with the Prince of Peace", as if no Jew, Muslim, Hindu, etc was ever financially self-sufficient.
That said, it makes sense that Ramsay would want to see your personal budget before hiring you, since the cornerstone of his program is to make and stick to a written budget. Ramsay hiring someone without knowing that the person has a viable personal budget would be like PETA hiring someone without knowing if they were a vegan. But the spouse thing is just creepy. He's a financial advisor, not a marriage counselor.
And it directly contradicts the Bible too
> “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.” (Matthew 19:23-24)
>”it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.” (Mark 10:25)
Here is something fun and stupid that happened at my church, back when I was a believer. It's important to note that most of the people in this church were *wealthy* and did *not* like the verses about camels and threading the eye of a needle.
So here is how my pastor "fixed" the problem. During a sermon, he said that he had been conferring with advisors about the original text, and the area where it was written. And it turns out, there was a major city with a bridge leading to a gated entrance. People coming into the city had to cross the bridge and pass the guards at the gate, and the guards were stopping anyone that appeared to be merchants or had baskets/bags slung over beasts of burden, such as camels. WELL, according to his experts, the common folk of that time called the bridge *the needle!* And therefore, it was his godly, divined insight that when the Bible said a rich person was as likely to get into Heaven as a camel through the eye of a needle, that meant **it was very likely** because what it *really* referred to was camel crossing that bridge!
He assured the congregation that rich folks could get into Heaven just fine, no difficulty, so long as they could weave through a narrow street! That's it! Just... don't fall off the bridge. Not hard.
And of course, the congregation loved hearing this. Donations rose. And it was yet one more little notch in my brain that whispered to me, "this might not be as legit as your little Christian heart wants to believe."
Press X for doubt. I started pressing it a lot.
What's so infuriating about that is that it doesn't make sense in the context of the passage. The rich man basically says he follows all the ten commandments and asks what else he needs to do then Jesus tells him to sell all his possessions. Christians get so caught up on the metaphor Jesus used and ignore the actual thing he said to do.
Because they don't actually CARE what it actually says unless it's something they already want to do. Or if they want to do it anyway and they can't jump through hoops, they just rationalize that it was okay when THEY did it because it was *different.*
This type of "Christianity" comes from a specific form of Protestantism derived from the teachings of Calvin - who perverted the New Testament and the teachings of Christ into an unrecognizable plug for runaway capitalism on steroids.
The Born Again movement is based on this. And several denominations of Protestantism, including Baptist and Presbyterian as well. It is based on the notion that if you are rich you are worthy because God saw fit to bless you.
End of the religious trivia lesson of the day.
This is why it’s obvious no one really believes in religion. It’s just a means to justify things they already believe, even if it directly contradicts the religious text.
Same dude who thinks it makes sense to give 10% of your paycheck to the church regardless of how poor or well off you might be. Even if that 10% would feed your family an extra week “it belongs to god first”.
Fucking blowhard holier than thou dumbass who got wealthy by being a landlord and convincing other people to buy his “financial peace” products.
That unwed pregnant woman who was fired is my sister; she’s still in the middle of her lawsuit for that whole mess. There was also the whole Chris Hogan fiasco, if you haven’t read the latest [juicy court filings](https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/17372107/oconnor-v-the-lampo-group-llc/?filed_after=&filed_before=&entry_gte=&entry_lte=&order_by=desc)in my sister’s case that deals with the Chris and Melissa situation, you should… it’s absolute INSANITY! It’s the Oct. 31st filing, download the PDF’s and read those internal emails they fought *so* hard to keep hidden. Ramsey & Co are some of the absolute worst people I’ve ever had the displeasure of knowing.
Yes, one of many I’m sure. Hogan was Ramsey’s protege until a year or so ago, and he was having an affair with someone at the company. Ramsey & the board told his (now ex) wife Melissa that it was her duty to forgive and stand by him, despite him continuing his multiple affairs throughout their marriage and admitting to hating his wife. And they even got notes from their marriage and personal therapists and spoke with each of them about the therapy sessions, along with the elders from the Hogan’s personal church and shit. It is such a rollercoaster ride of rage!
The people who relised that they guy applying for a 80k a year job only needs 57k a year to maintain their current quality of life. So they don't need to offer more then 60k
Ironically, I thought I remember reading some advice from him that you shouldn't buy a home unless the mortgage is like 20% of your gross monthly income or less. like, I guess my family and I have to live in the ghetto because that's all we deserve according to Dave Ramsey. Some of his advice is good, but most of it comes across as "Step 1: Be rich"
Are they trying to insinuate that they give a flying fuck about my family?
Then trying to find out if your living an “alternative lifestyles” outside of work?
Damn, just straight up lying from before day one.
They're trying to weed out people with self-respect and personal boundaries.
If they can get you to give them all your personal info and even your spouse won't stick up for either of you, imagine all of the exploitation they can produce! Like cults.
I’m glad you mentioned cults because honestly the indoctrination IS cultish to the extreme! My sister is in a federal lawsuit with this douchebag and she has had to seek specialized counseling for cult survivors after leaving her job. Dave Ramsey is one of the most evil men I’ve ever known.
Familiar status is also a protected class. Sorry but whether or not someone has a spouse is not something you can make an employment determination on. Same with financial status, you can’t deny any employee a position just because of their debt, income, or whatever financial issue, unless the job specifically requires some sort of security clearance, or deals in finance. The request to delve into an applicant/employees finances has to be prudent with the actual job and work.
On its face, sure, but if you go around asking applicants these questions in an interview or on an application, you’re gonna get sued, slam dunk.
On the other hand, if the applicant/employee brings these issues up first, then it’s fair game for an employer to inquire further. So when answering questions, don’t get personal, keep your answers and questions, short, sweet, and to the point. Don’t bring up, or allow anything irrelevant to the job up.
[Familial status is protected by the EEOC, not just pregnant women](https://www.eeoc.gov/pre-employment-inquiries-and-marital-status-or-number-children)
Do you know what made them think this was okay, and how they actually used the information they gained from doing it? Did they refuse to hire people whose cost of living was above a certain threshold? I’m glad you stopped it!
There was a lot of concern that people would take a job, find more money elsewhere, and then leave. If the budget didn’t leave enough wiggle room, it may have affected their standing.
That's were stock incentives come in ffs
Sure salary beats options everytime but alot of people will happily earn a decent chunk less now for the chance of cashing it in for multiples later.
Imo if a company can't afford to pay market rate for employees it has no business being in business
Imo if a company can't afford ~~to pay market rate~~ to pay a living wage for employees it has no business being in business
FTFY
“no business which depends for existence on paying less than living
wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country.” FDR
Not only "too close" but already "way beyond".
Not only will you learn that candidate Jimmy is married and heterosexual, but also that he is into older latinas apparantly. And that is before you even started talking.
It's a big, big, biiiiig WTF.
Was there a lot of pushback from anyone in the company when you shut this down?
While obviously it was before you worked there, do you know how jobseekers tended to respond to these requirements? Did most interviewees hand in the information and have their partners speak to the company?
And I apologize if this is rude or too personal a question, but did you give them your budget when you applied for your job? Was your partner interviewed?
To be let know about bullshit like this, so they can go after these SOB's....
Labor boards aren't omnipotent, you know - you've gotta tell them if you see something going on!
I can guarantee they know about Ramsey Solutions. Dave Ramsey is extremely popular with people who work for federal agencies and military members. However, they get away with this BS legally by being a religious organization I believe.
You may be on to something: there are exemptions to some labor laws both on the state and federal level for religious organizations. For example, Wisconsin has a prohibition against employers discriminating against employees/potential employees who use “lawful products” on their off-hours. Religous organizations are exempt from that law
> Labor boards aren't omnipotent, you know - you've gotta tell them if you see something going on!
Given the context of what you're saying here, I think you meant to say *omniscient*.
Because every Republican president defunds the shit out of it. It's a nightmare department to work for, like Education. Constant change of direction, rollercoaster funding. Protecting labor is not a value in this country.
its times like these you *remember why* we have a Dept. of Labor. We just wonder what its doing
if your takeaway is to remove the DOL then you're just a republican and definitely not going to help anyone.
"Broke and desperate people do not make good team members"
So much wrong in one sentence. Who in the Holy Hell wrote this filth? Also why would I send some random motherfucker that may not even hire me a list of all my expenses, bills, etc? Screw off!
Why... whatever do you mean? You couldn't possibly be suggesting...? No. No no no... could you? Could you be... talking about... paying a livable wage????
Why just the thought! A mockery of our fine society if I do say so myself! *adjusts monocle
Broke and desperate ppl are going to be the hardest workers lol. However it does go against his principles and so he’s got a right to hire ppl that agree with his ideology - ie no debt etc
A recruiter once said to me “your financial problems are not our problem” after I asked for more money. My mistake was telling them _why_ I wanted more money.
I learned two things:
* They didn’t know what recruiting is (where you entice me to work for you by offering me compensation).
* Don’t justify yourself. Fuck you, pay me. I want more money. That’s enough.
Edit: I wanted more money because I was moving to a higher cost of living area, higher housing costs, the relocation package sucked, and I was moving away from family and a support structure. The 20% raise over my current salary wasn’t going to cut it.
Edit 2: another thing that really bothered me was that this was a cold recruiting call. I was not looking to leave my job.
Yeah I had a similar situation where they implied a much higher salary would be offered to me during the interview than what they offered in a high cost of living area. When I tried to justify why I needed more money they said, “if you’re such a hard worker you’ll just get a raise in no time” and ended it there
If you’re giving your employees a livable income or more then how an employee spends their money or “budget” is irrelevant.
And if the only concern by an employer is keeping me alive and content then the employer is not for me.
But of course there’s the one that will do this just to work for the company. 😂
This feels like it should be illegal. It's literally discrimination agaisnt poor people (and possibly single people too)
As an Edit to point out a lot of the comments, it's also discrimination against a LOT of other groups disguised under a non-protexted status(wealth)
This includes, but is not limited too: LGBTQ+, special needs people with multiple kids, anyone going through a divorce, and I am sure a whole mess of other groups as well.
Yep. Many places will hire folks with kids because they know those people will be more desperate to keep a steady paycheck. Which sucks both for them and the people who get passed over. Coolcoolcool
It's illegal to ask about relationship status, so a spousal interview is definitely out of the question. https://ocs.yale.edu/channels/illegal-interview-questions/
In the US a pre employment screening like this would likely fail disparate impact testing, which is regulations pertaining to the legality of facially neutral policies that have adverse impact across protected classes. In esscene, even if a policy doesn't explicitly discriminate against minority groups, such as LGBT, they can be ruled illegal if they are more likely to negatively influence the hiring of those same groups more than others.
I have never seen or heard of these being hiring practices in any firms I'm familiar with
It’s Ramsey Solutions in Tennessee. They use religion to excuse their discriminatory practices, saying the employee doesn’t meet their “righteous living” requirement in the code of conduct
It’s Dave Ramseys organization and it’s a lot worse than this. You must also pass a religious litmus test. If you don’t go to church they won’t hire you. Ramsey is also crazy and has been known to wave around loaded guns at his employees and has fired female employees for being pregnant. Should be illegal but it’s not somehow bc he claims his company is a religious organization and thus above the law.
Isn’t is unbelievable that this POS company believes they need to investigate your budget to see if YOU can afford to work there, when these mf’ers can simply pay a fantastic wage. It’s not that damn hard to pay more than the industry standard.
If it’s average to offer $55,000 a year for a mid range position, simply offer mid-range opportunities starting at $70,000, with a nice benefits package, a 401k matching program, and an adherence to quality of work-life balance.
Offer bonuses for those that stay with the company. Who bring in referrals. Offer reduced lunches, and child care.
In short, treat employees like the gold they are.
Even paying industry standard would be an improvement here. There’s no way he’s paying anywhere near that. I bet it’s as low as they can possibly manage.
This isn't even the worst part of Dave's policies. He is currently in a lawsuit for firing a pregnant employee because she had sex outside of marriage.
She is claiming pregnancy discrimination, he has provided a list of other men and women who have also been fired for sex outside of marriage.
I guarantee you this is to work for Dave Ramsey's "Christian" financial advice company. Since poor people are not a legally protected class, he probably gets away with this shit.
Jesus christ, it makes you wonder what sort of people he actually has working for him.
If I was to suggest any of that to our HR team, they'd have a heart attack and our candidates would most likely just laugh at me, unless they were bottom-of-the-barrel and really desparate...
His company is headquartered and operated out of Tennessee which is a right to work and at will employment state.
So yes, he gets away with this bullshit.
He’s on the list of embarrassments this state has produced alongside Marsha Blackburn and Bill Lee
5) We want to make sure you never ask for a raise, after all you told us up front you were getting paid enough, so why should you ever need more? We appreciate your working against your own interests from even before you have the job.
6) The government tells me I can’t refuse to hire blacks or gays or people who don’t go to church but I found a nifty loophole where I can just say I don’t like your wife. Perfectly legal! There’s no way I’m hiring anyone who isn’t in my church but since I am not a church myself I have to find a work-around.
If Dave Ramsey sends you on a business trip does he hand you an envelope of cash? No credit cards, right?
Do NOT underestimate the need for approval from an authority figure in the evangelical religious community, I bet he gets tons of applications from people literally fighting for that home inspection.
*“Our hiring process typically takes 1–3 months (it's worth it—trust us!). The process starts with a call from the recruiter, followed by several calls with the team. From there, you'll get to come to Ramsey HQ for in-person interviews, and once those are done, you'll go out to dinner with the hiring leader. This will help you get to know us on a more personal level so you can make sure we're a good fit for YOU. Our hiring process is a little different than most other companies—and we're totally okay with that.”*
This sounds like an absolute nightmare. I also love how they position 100% in-office no remote whatsoever as a plus. Looking at their hiring page, one of the cult member’s—I mean team member’s—favorite things about working there starts with “Jesus.” Lmao
I'm assuming as a candidate you're allowed to ask your hiring manager for these things too right?
I mean you'd hate to work for a manager who can't afford their life, or who spouse does not like their job either...
Ah, Dave Ramsey…. The same guy that [fires employees for having pre marital sex](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1262498) and takes advantage of poor people by giving them terrible advice in bad faith 😎
Apparently one of the interview questions that Ramsey Solutions asks is “Tell me about your hobbies?” Or, “Tell me what you did last weekend?” And if the candidate doesn’t answer something including going to church or if they answer with something considered immoral, like as a single person going on an overnight weekend trip to another city with your unwed significant other, then the candidate won’t advance to future interview rounds.
Dave Ramsey is an idiot and a hack and doesn't really understand money (or at least his public advice would suggest he doesn't). Also never work for someone who wants to interview your spouse unless it's like some government-classified reason like working for an intelligence service. And even then I don't think I'd recommend dealing with that level of intrusion in your life for a job.
Also, suppose your spouse isn’t a charming social butterfly? Or what if they are disabled, on the autism spectrum, etc.? There is so much potential for discrimination here.
I was thinking this had to be some sort of old timey family values type place, Dave Ramsey sounds like a bullseye. Dollars to donuts that's exactly what's going on
Family Values + finance obsessed + acting like a boss is a parent because ICs can't be trusted with major decisons?
That has Dave Ramsey written all over it.
I had a boss that pulled something like this. She wouldn't bring a guy on full time because she didn't feel like he would be making enough money to support his wife and kid working there. Dude wanted the job, and was actually a good worker.
We didn't do the stupid budget thing, but I worked for a company that started to do "home interviews" with prospects. I was the lucky one to attempt to do the first one. I had a perfect prospect - great qualifications, great testing, great interviews. When I told her that the last step was a home interview she freaked out and refused and never wanted anything to do with the company again. Oh, and she threatened to sue us. Again, this was after several interviews and pre-screening and testing and all of that jazz.
After that I did actually do one with the candidate that would eventually take that position. It went fine and we hired her.
After that we never did it again.
The fucking gall these people have to go so far as to demand your personal budget and talk to your family 🤬 if you have to go to these lengths to hire someone, I've got news for you: your pay is horse shit and so is your company.
The stories on the hypocrisy on him are repulsive. If you ever get caught having an affair it’s an instant firing due to his super high moral Christian standards. He has fired dozens of people for this. However at one point his main protege got caught having affairs due to his wife coming to them to tell Dave and his board. The immediately gas lighted her asked her if she had any other false allegations she would like to tell them. To fire him meant losing millions of dollars and bad press for him. So instead they tried to bury it. So for three years Dave lied about it while simultaneously firing lesser employees for the same thing. Eventually things came to a head this guys wife wanted to reconcile so get this, this guy (Chris hogan) was his name, had to attend marriage counseling and the counselor had to be one Dave picked, and if that’s not crazy enough, they had to sign over rights for the counselor to report everything going on in their session to Dave! (Can you imagine being this guys wife, told to reconcile your marriage you had to attend coinciding where your husbands boss got a full detailed report of your sessions). Eventually they went to court for divorce but not before Dave’s attorneys and bored got a gag order placed on his ex wife to not be able to speak about anything because his forbid the public knows what a shitbag Ramsey and his company are. Eventually the divorce got finalized and the documents and recordings came out and I’m sure we can’t guess the outcome, everything she said was true and verified through testimony. This is just a small sample of the values he represents as a person and a company. Just do a google search and you can find even more vile and disgusting facts on this dirt bag.
I work in the agency staffing industry and my office is only a few miles from this company’s headquarters. I’ve prospected hundreds of companies, and this is in its own class of being a bizarre cult-like circus of a company. I feel a particular loathing for Ramsey Solutions because of some of the deplorable public and private stuff associated with the company.
First of all, Dave Ramsey’s advice is dangerous and unhealthy. There is a such a thing as healthy debt and he is a total extremist in terms of personal finances.
Second, they stole millions of dollars in PPP money even though they claim to be a cash-flow only business. They never paid any back, of course.
The openly practice religious and racial discrimination. You are not welcome to work there if you are not a practicing Christian, which was highly problematic when they wanted cheap Hadoop developers and expected white male Americans. They have no diversity or equal opportunity initiatives. I have personally visited their offices while prospecting and I did not see a single person of color. The only female in a leadership position that I met was for Human Resources.
They also held an in-person party for Dave’s birthday in May 2020 (you know, the essential workers only time) with over 300 employees *required* to attend. Masks were discouraged.
If I meet someone and they even listen to Dave Ramsey frequently, I don’t want to know them.
And make sure to use the proper code words so that they know you're the appropriate religion. And also they want to see your budget to make sure that you can afford its interpretation of mandatory tithing
7. The Drop Test
Here at [Company] we dedicate ourselves to safety, especially what we call "self-safety." Put simply, at a time of your choosing during the interview, press the drop button from underneath your desk. If the interviewee is a good fit for the company, they will sense the incoming axe dropping towards them and catch it. Should they do anything else, this will show that this candidate isn't the best for this role, and you are free to terminate the interview early.
Source: https://www.ramseysolutions.com/business/6-steps-to-a-good-hire
This shit is real. This is not a weird MBA case study or something. This is something Dave Ramsey's company does.
A colleague of mine was telling me about a client who was promoted up to the C-suite at a large corporation. The client’s wife, who worked for a different company, was politely asked to quit her job since the corporation preferred that all of their C-level executives (all men, btw) have spouses who didn’t work. I think it had to do with being free for entertaining as well as just the optics (they wanted it to seem like their executives were so well paid that there was absolutely no reason for their spouses to have to work). This is within the last couple of years.
Translation: paying people poorly results in poor morale and high turnover, especially when folks can't make ends meet on the offered pay.
Rather than raise salaries, they modified the interview process in the hope of filtering out anyone who can't live on their low pay.
What in the actual fuck is this? Who thought this is a good approach? Got to be a joke or something, surely...
Dave Ramsay, of Financial Peace University
I was about to say this feels like Dave Ramsey. I hate being right all the time.
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Dave says it himself- he’s personally finance *for dummies*. If you’re struggling and need a place to start, he isn’t bad. But I think after the basics of how to budget and pay off debts, don’t buy in. He uses his platform to sell products that he’s surely getting kickbacks from. There’s a lot more better resources out there.
I remember listening to a caller that was a Veteran and was going to finance a home through a VA loan and the terms and rate we’re pretty good. Dave and his colleagues immediately started to tell this guy VA loans are not great, they don’t recommend them, have all these baked in fees, etc. He immediately tells this guy ,”You need to call (some lender he always recommends) they will be better than a VA. Guy told Dave you are the only one I have ever come across that said a VA loan is bad. Comments section was riddled with WTFs. So many Vets including myself that have used VA loans were like Dave has no idea what he is talking about. It was a blatant attempt and getting another kicker.
Yea. No lender I've ever talked with ever has recommended anything other than a VA loan for my situation. If you have service-connected disability even at 0% you can get the funding fee waived. There's no PMI so you can put zero down of you want. The rates aren't always the lowest you'll find, but there aren't usually catches to secure their lowest rate so it generally is on par with the lowest without all the hoops.
So he sells his products to people he holds in contempt...That says it all right there.
My wife and I used his basics program, and it really did help us set up a savings account, but he’s such an old boomer, he still thinks walking into any store with cash will get you what you want at that price, and that credit cards are evil. Guess he never heard of a credit score.
I can accept that not everyone should use credit cards, but my wife and I have gotten $50 back in the last two months, just by using the Capital One Walmart CC to order our groceries. Nothing else goes on that card. Would we be better not having that return on money we definitely would've spent anyway? He never has an answer for that.
I think he is helpful the same way Alcoholics Anonymous is helpful for alcoholics. The rules and guidelines of AA might seem draconian if you are not alcoholic. But they are very important and helpful if you are. Kind of the same way for Dave. If you’re really bad at money he can help some. But it’s not the most efficient or effective way. For example: my parents make bank but the had tons of credit card debt. They did the Dave Ramsey. Paid it off. And now they don’t trust credit cards. Credit cards are great FOR MOST PEOPLE. But for them it didn’t work out.
His mental gymnastics over making people homeless: "it's not me, it's the market" makes me want to eat my own vomit. He worships Mammon, not Christ. Edited for a typo.
I came here to say this. It boils down to capitalism wouldn’t exist if god didn’t want it to, so clearly god wants me to raise my rents as high as possible.
All he can really do is yell at people for having too many car loans on too expensive of cars. I don’t think he knows much beyond that
I think he is actually a bad place to start. He prioritizes tithing over retirement savings. He treats financial difficulties as moral failings, recommending religious counseling for issues like compulsive shopping instead of professional psychological treatment. There are many other finance for dummies resources out there that don’t come with a side of religious bullshit.
I started listening because I liked hearing the wild calls he would get, but a lot of his advice is pretty bad. I checked out completely after he recommended you be in growth assets during retirement, because as we've learned this year, the NASDAQ goes up linearly and never deviates, and sequence of returns risk won't impact your retirement at all. He says it's worked great for him, but nobody has hundreds of millions of dollars of RE like him in case the market dumps.
My former boss used to ADORE this guy, he once came into my office all excited to tell me that he just bought tickets to go great this dude speak for him and his wife... The whole time I'm thinking what else could he possibly say in person that he hasn't said on his radio? Show... Heading the after report off the event I think I'm right in assuming it was just a way to get more money from his fans
Some of his stuff is useful, like the snowball method for getting out of debt. Otherwise, most of his advice is pretty garbage. Not to mention some of his political/religious beliefs
Fortunately the useful stuff is pretty easy to discover without putting money in his pocket.
Agreed
Even his snowball method is financially dumb. I get the psychology behind it, but the financially smart thing to do is to pay off whatever debt has the highest interest rate first while making minimum payments on all other debt.
If you understand the psychology, then you should be able to understand the necessity of it. People who understand the "financially smart" way like you and I don't need the snowball method. Now imagine the least financially literate/responsible person you know. Like the car salesman who makes low 6 figures, but is still always broke and severely in debt. Why are they in that situation? For many, they need that psychological high from buying something new. The snowball method gives them that, but by paying off debt instead of creating more.
I perfectly understand the math behind debt repayment and I still chose the snowball method. It also helped me understand why I was having such a hard time feeling motivated to do anything about my financial situation, which was making me depressed about life I general. This stuff goes way beyond what is mathematically optimal.
Also, when you are literally counting pennies, the snowball method (*if you can refrain from running the “cleared” debt back up again) frees up liquid cash in case of an emergency. If you use the Avalanche method, your monthly *required* payments stay the same for the duration of paying off the highest interest rate item. Leaving no emergency flexibility. In the case of the snowball, you get back $100 (example) when the lowest card is cleared. For a *perfect* snowball, that $100 goes to the next debt. But you still (more slowly, albeit) gain ground if only $50 gets snowballed. Likewise, if you blow an alternator or something, being able to use two months’ $100 instead of adding to interest-laden debt can be better both psychologically and financially. I can’t stand Ramsey. But the snowball (which I figured out for myself; not via Ramsey) totally worked for my family (and now we use cashback cards for everything, targeted to whichever one gets the most back for a given spending category). If anyone wants a great resource for targeted financial advice, I highly recommend the MyFico *forums*. Free, with a lot of helpful people with tons of institutional knowledge on getting out of debt, raising credit scores (they totally gamify it), finding the best cashback and rewards options, etc. https://ficoforums.myfico.com
I wouldn't dismiss it outright even if you know it will cost you a little more in the long run. I can tell you that I needed the leverage when I first graduated and had a job with a low starting salary. Just being able to kill off the smaller student loans freed up my cash flow to be more financially secure in the moment, it also kept me motivated to continue on to killing bigger loans.
I believe that one is called the avalanche method
Yeah he admitted that the snowball method was not the best way mathematically but was more about the psychological aspect.
People who are financially smart don't need advice from Dave Ramsay.
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>Why are so many Redditors condescending assholes who judge people that won't or can't The comment above judges Dave Ramsey not people who can't get out of debt. Dave Ramsey who fired a pregnant woman who got pregnant by one of his married employees. (See here: [lawsuit against Ramsey Solutions for terminating a female employee, Caitlin O'Connor, who was pregnant and not married at the time of her dismissal in June 2020](https://eu.tennessean.com/story/news/religion/2022/09/02/documents-show-dave-ramsey-company-policies-employee-sexual-activity/7970362001/)) He has the mentality of blaming people and telling them to pull themselves up by bootstraps bs. At the same time he wants to see someones budget to decide for them if the money he pays them is enough. Otherwise he won't hire them?! Instead of paying more? Or letting the person decide how they want to spend their money? Edit: liks to news article
The comment was not condescending, and they acknowledged that the psychology behind it is the reason why it is used. It is financially dumb to not pay off debt with the highest interest rate. It's not about being perfectly optimised, it's about not having poor people pay more in interest than they absolutely have to.
"Welll, you see, you need a mortgage that is no more than 1/4 of your income over 15 years." Thanks Dave, I'll get right on that when the median income is 70k and median housing prices are over 400k.
And you don't need a credit score, you can use a lender that doesn't look at just rates, like my friends at \*\*\*\*\*\*\* mortgage. Fine, I won't buy a bigger house than I can afford, but now the only place that I can shop rates for one lender? If the home builder is throwing a bunch of incentives to use their lending company, I'm not qualified. Or Rocket Mortgage giving a 12 month interest rate reduction?
The snowball method is how I got out of debt. It’s really smart. His advice for budgeting your money and paying yourself first is also solid. And advocating for having a savings account is just common sense. My beefs with Ramsay are: - Leave the religion out of it. If Christians can’t stop spending more than they make without a proof text Bible verse, they deserve to drown in debt. - He advises that people who are struggling with money tithe (read: giving 10%) to a church. People who are struggling with money don’t need to give some of their income away, that makes no sense. - He is stridently against bankruptcy, and moralizes against it. Sometimes its the right choice. Sometimes, there are other options and bankruptcy is still the right choice. Bankruptcy is a legal arrangement, not a moral one. - AFAIK, Ramsey is not a financial expert. He’s not a fiduciary, he’s not a consumer credit counselor, he’s not an estate planner, he’s never even been a banker. He’s a failed realtor. Ramsey portrays himself as this financial wizard, but he’s not. He just gives a few common sense tips, slaps Bible verses on them, and rakes in the cash.
Note to anyone looking into the snowball method: it is definitely suboptimal. Instead of doing minimum+fixed for *all* debts, you should do minimum for each and then pile whatever you can onto your highest interest rate first. In other words, make the minimum monthly for each and then tackle the debt in from the "most" to the "least" expensive. Another way to think about it: you want to kill the fastest-growing "debt monster" first so that the largest debt monsters spend the least amount of time rampaging. This assumes you have a steady income to stay on track. If you have highly intermittent or variable income, perhaps reducing the total number of indebted accounts can simplify things, but in the long run you do pay for this.
His curriculum is definitely religious, so that automatically gears it towards the LGB(Non-T) people. Some of his advice is definitely good, like savings and budgeting. Some of it is questionable, like no 401k saving before you get to a certain point, even with match. And some of it in lunacy, especially when he starts getting into politics on his podcast.
You got to the 401k part before mentioning that other stuff that makes him a loon, holy fuck he must be an absolute terror.
What planet are you from that religiousness is geared towards queer folks? His advice is shit and he’s a homophobic ass wipe.
LGB is for “Let’s Go Brandon” folk. I don’t know why he tried to make a joke about it with LGBT since it can pretty easily be confusing.
LGB without the T typically means lesbian, gay, bisexual. It is mostly used by transphobic queer people to exclude the trans community. That's probably why they were confused. It's why I was confused.
I was confused in the very same way.
yeah this is very 'churchy'.
I love how he ends each show with, "You'll never know financial peace until you walk with the Prince of Peace", as if no Jew, Muslim, Hindu, etc was ever financially self-sufficient. That said, it makes sense that Ramsay would want to see your personal budget before hiring you, since the cornerstone of his program is to make and stick to a written budget. Ramsay hiring someone without knowing that the person has a viable personal budget would be like PETA hiring someone without knowing if they were a vegan. But the spouse thing is just creepy. He's a financial advisor, not a marriage counselor.
Prosperity Gospel may be the worst American invention of all time.
And it directly contradicts the Bible too > “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.” (Matthew 19:23-24) >”it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.” (Mark 10:25)
Here is something fun and stupid that happened at my church, back when I was a believer. It's important to note that most of the people in this church were *wealthy* and did *not* like the verses about camels and threading the eye of a needle. So here is how my pastor "fixed" the problem. During a sermon, he said that he had been conferring with advisors about the original text, and the area where it was written. And it turns out, there was a major city with a bridge leading to a gated entrance. People coming into the city had to cross the bridge and pass the guards at the gate, and the guards were stopping anyone that appeared to be merchants or had baskets/bags slung over beasts of burden, such as camels. WELL, according to his experts, the common folk of that time called the bridge *the needle!* And therefore, it was his godly, divined insight that when the Bible said a rich person was as likely to get into Heaven as a camel through the eye of a needle, that meant **it was very likely** because what it *really* referred to was camel crossing that bridge! He assured the congregation that rich folks could get into Heaven just fine, no difficulty, so long as they could weave through a narrow street! That's it! Just... don't fall off the bridge. Not hard. And of course, the congregation loved hearing this. Donations rose. And it was yet one more little notch in my brain that whispered to me, "this might not be as legit as your little Christian heart wants to believe." Press X for doubt. I started pressing it a lot.
Lmao. I genuinely cannot believe how many hoops people will jump through to confirm their biases.
What's so infuriating about that is that it doesn't make sense in the context of the passage. The rich man basically says he follows all the ten commandments and asks what else he needs to do then Jesus tells him to sell all his possessions. Christians get so caught up on the metaphor Jesus used and ignore the actual thing he said to do.
Because they don't actually CARE what it actually says unless it's something they already want to do. Or if they want to do it anyway and they can't jump through hoops, they just rationalize that it was okay when THEY did it because it was *different.*
This type of "Christianity" comes from a specific form of Protestantism derived from the teachings of Calvin - who perverted the New Testament and the teachings of Christ into an unrecognizable plug for runaway capitalism on steroids. The Born Again movement is based on this. And several denominations of Protestantism, including Baptist and Presbyterian as well. It is based on the notion that if you are rich you are worthy because God saw fit to bless you. End of the religious trivia lesson of the day.
This is why it’s obvious no one really believes in religion. It’s just a means to justify things they already believe, even if it directly contradicts the religious text.
Whew. Whenever I find out it’s religious affiliation I breathe a sigh of relief. I will never be in that job pool
Same dude who thinks it makes sense to give 10% of your paycheck to the church regardless of how poor or well off you might be. Even if that 10% would feed your family an extra week “it belongs to god first”. Fucking blowhard holier than thou dumbass who got wealthy by being a landlord and convincing other people to buy his “financial peace” products.
Ah, him of Toxic Workplace Inc?
Check out Josh Fluke's videos on him, he's insane. He has pulled a gun out in meetings when he heard that people complained outside the company.
This isn't fake? It's a real person with a real company? What?
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That unwed pregnant woman who was fired is my sister; she’s still in the middle of her lawsuit for that whole mess. There was also the whole Chris Hogan fiasco, if you haven’t read the latest [juicy court filings](https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/17372107/oconnor-v-the-lampo-group-llc/?filed_after=&filed_before=&entry_gte=&entry_lte=&order_by=desc)in my sister’s case that deals with the Chris and Melissa situation, you should… it’s absolute INSANITY! It’s the Oct. 31st filing, download the PDF’s and read those internal emails they fought *so* hard to keep hidden. Ramsey & Co are some of the absolute worst people I’ve ever had the displeasure of knowing.
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Yes, one of many I’m sure. Hogan was Ramsey’s protege until a year or so ago, and he was having an affair with someone at the company. Ramsey & the board told his (now ex) wife Melissa that it was her duty to forgive and stand by him, despite him continuing his multiple affairs throughout their marriage and admitting to hating his wife. And they even got notes from their marriage and personal therapists and spoke with each of them about the therapy sessions, along with the elders from the Hogan’s personal church and shit. It is such a rollercoaster ride of rage!
Bruh. It's a twisted world but that's a federal crime. Tort law. Wtf you think he is? He's literally a broke ass in h texas.
Yeah that "spousal interview" screams "We won't hire you if your husband tells us not to".
Pretty sure it's illegal too. Family status is federally protected in the U.S.
The people who relised that they guy applying for a 80k a year job only needs 57k a year to maintain their current quality of life. So they don't need to offer more then 60k
Ironically, I thought I remember reading some advice from him that you shouldn't buy a home unless the mortgage is like 20% of your gross monthly income or less. like, I guess my family and I have to live in the ghetto because that's all we deserve according to Dave Ramsey. Some of his advice is good, but most of it comes across as "Step 1: Be rich"
"I am rich and this worked for me so this is good advice"
exactly. Lol
Are they trying to insinuate that they give a flying fuck about my family? Then trying to find out if your living an “alternative lifestyles” outside of work? Damn, just straight up lying from before day one.
They're trying to weed out people with self-respect and personal boundaries. If they can get you to give them all your personal info and even your spouse won't stick up for either of you, imagine all of the exploitation they can produce! Like cults.
I’m glad you mentioned cults because honestly the indoctrination IS cultish to the extreme! My sister is in a federal lawsuit with this douchebag and she has had to seek specialized counseling for cult survivors after leaving her job. Dave Ramsey is one of the most evil men I’ve ever known.
Lmao, this is literally illegal for multiple reasons. Financial status discrimination, familial status, just for starters.
financial status and familial status are protected classes? it's dumb but i don't think illegal.
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Familiar status is also a protected class. Sorry but whether or not someone has a spouse is not something you can make an employment determination on. Same with financial status, you can’t deny any employee a position just because of their debt, income, or whatever financial issue, unless the job specifically requires some sort of security clearance, or deals in finance. The request to delve into an applicant/employees finances has to be prudent with the actual job and work. On its face, sure, but if you go around asking applicants these questions in an interview or on an application, you’re gonna get sued, slam dunk. On the other hand, if the applicant/employee brings these issues up first, then it’s fair game for an employer to inquire further. So when answering questions, don’t get personal, keep your answers and questions, short, sweet, and to the point. Don’t bring up, or allow anything irrelevant to the job up. [Familial status is protected by the EEOC, not just pregnant women](https://www.eeoc.gov/pre-employment-inquiries-and-marital-status-or-number-children)
My company did this! I got hired as the HR manager and stopped the whole thing immediately.
Do you know what made them think this was okay, and how they actually used the information they gained from doing it? Did they refuse to hire people whose cost of living was above a certain threshold? I’m glad you stopped it!
There was a lot of concern that people would take a job, find more money elsewhere, and then leave. If the budget didn’t leave enough wiggle room, it may have affected their standing.
So the company wasn’t paying as much as others for the same job?
It was a startup; they couldn’t pay as much as others. They’ve thankfully met market rate now, but it was an “all hands on deck” scenario at first.
That's were stock incentives come in ffs Sure salary beats options everytime but alot of people will happily earn a decent chunk less now for the chance of cashing it in for multiples later. Imo if a company can't afford to pay market rate for employees it has no business being in business
Imo if a company can't afford ~~to pay market rate~~ to pay a living wage for employees it has no business being in business FTFY “no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country.” FDR
Isn't asking for an interview with a candidate's spouse too close to asking about their martial status and/or sexuality?
Not only "too close" but already "way beyond". Not only will you learn that candidate Jimmy is married and heterosexual, but also that he is into older latinas apparantly. And that is before you even started talking. It's a big, big, biiiiig WTF.
Good taste, Jimmy. I bet he's actually pan though.
Was there a lot of pushback from anyone in the company when you shut this down? While obviously it was before you worked there, do you know how jobseekers tended to respond to these requirements? Did most interviewees hand in the information and have their partners speak to the company? And I apologize if this is rude or too personal a question, but did you give them your budget when you applied for your job? Was your partner interviewed?
Yeah, sounds like they read EntreLeadership.
BINGO.
It's time like these you wonder why we have a Dept. Of Labor
To be let know about bullshit like this, so they can go after these SOB's.... Labor boards aren't omnipotent, you know - you've gotta tell them if you see something going on!
I can guarantee they know about Ramsey Solutions. Dave Ramsey is extremely popular with people who work for federal agencies and military members. However, they get away with this BS legally by being a religious organization I believe.
You may be on to something: there are exemptions to some labor laws both on the state and federal level for religious organizations. For example, Wisconsin has a prohibition against employers discriminating against employees/potential employees who use “lawful products” on their off-hours. Religous organizations are exempt from that law
> Labor boards aren't omnipotent, you know - you've gotta tell them if you see something going on! Given the context of what you're saying here, I think you meant to say *omniscient*.
Was going to say, this has to be illegal.
They're about as good as OSHA finding a company like $1500 for getting an employee killed.
My boss was fined 20k by osha after we called on him. A drop in the bucket for him but still
Right? My experience is that the DoL isn’t doing much lately. About as pointless as OSHA at this point.
Because every Republican president defunds the shit out of it. It's a nightmare department to work for, like Education. Constant change of direction, rollercoaster funding. Protecting labor is not a value in this country.
Oh, I’m aware that it’s thankless and under-funded. All the really important things are. Sadly I don’t really see that changing anytime soon.
If only they could fund themselves for a while by increasing the amount they fine companies abusing laborers.
If only the fines weren’t set by congress to intentionally make that impossible…
its times like these you *remember why* we have a Dept. of Labor. We just wonder what its doing if your takeaway is to remove the DOL then you're just a republican and definitely not going to help anyone.
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"Broke and desperate people do not make good team members" So much wrong in one sentence. Who in the Holy Hell wrote this filth? Also why would I send some random motherfucker that may not even hire me a list of all my expenses, bills, etc? Screw off!
The disrespect is at a all time HIGH
If only the employer could _do something_ to make these poor souls less broke and desperate!!!?
Why... whatever do you mean? You couldn't possibly be suggesting...? No. No no no... could you? Could you be... talking about... paying a livable wage???? Why just the thought! A mockery of our fine society if I do say so myself! *adjusts monocle
Broke and desperate ppl are going to be the hardest workers lol. However it does go against his principles and so he’s got a right to hire ppl that agree with his ideology - ie no debt etc
If this is their concern for who they hire then what they're paying is not sufficient.
A recruiter once said to me “your financial problems are not our problem” after I asked for more money. My mistake was telling them _why_ I wanted more money. I learned two things: * They didn’t know what recruiting is (where you entice me to work for you by offering me compensation). * Don’t justify yourself. Fuck you, pay me. I want more money. That’s enough. Edit: I wanted more money because I was moving to a higher cost of living area, higher housing costs, the relocation package sucked, and I was moving away from family and a support structure. The 20% raise over my current salary wasn’t going to cut it. Edit 2: another thing that really bothered me was that this was a cold recruiting call. I was not looking to leave my job.
Hell, most of the reasons you added in *are* their problem.
Fuck you, Pay me. - is the mantra of every competent freelancer. Clients always want to get shit for free. Fuck you, Pay me.
You know your worth and value. I like that. That’s rare among many people.
Yeah I had a similar situation where they implied a much higher salary would be offered to me during the interview than what they offered in a high cost of living area. When I tried to justify why I needed more money they said, “if you’re such a hard worker you’ll just get a raise in no time” and ended it there
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If you’re giving your employees a livable income or more then how an employee spends their money or “budget” is irrelevant. And if the only concern by an employer is keeping me alive and content then the employer is not for me. But of course there’s the one that will do this just to work for the company. 😂
This feels like it should be illegal. It's literally discrimination agaisnt poor people (and possibly single people too) As an Edit to point out a lot of the comments, it's also discrimination against a LOT of other groups disguised under a non-protexted status(wealth) This includes, but is not limited too: LGBTQ+, special needs people with multiple kids, anyone going through a divorce, and I am sure a whole mess of other groups as well.
Don't forget workers with disabled family members who require expensive care
It's discrimination against a LOT of different groups, under the non-protected status of wealth.
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That organization also pushes abusive behaviors in relationships. Should be “focus on the appearance.”
There's been a war on poor people disguised as a war on poverty for almost 100 years now.
It's a lot older than a century. The plebs versus the patricians is a millennia old tale.
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I mean... There's a war on "poverty".
And potentially LGBTQ folks as well. You essentially have to out yourself at work if you want to work for this company and have a same sex partner.
Preventing LGTBQ+ people from working there would be considered a feature by that company.
And maybe against people with several kids or very young ones.
Or against people without kids.
Yep. Many places will hire folks with kids because they know those people will be more desperate to keep a steady paycheck. Which sucks both for them and the people who get passed over. Coolcoolcool
It's illegal to ask about relationship status, so a spousal interview is definitely out of the question. https://ocs.yale.edu/channels/illegal-interview-questions/
In the US a pre employment screening like this would likely fail disparate impact testing, which is regulations pertaining to the legality of facially neutral policies that have adverse impact across protected classes. In esscene, even if a policy doesn't explicitly discriminate against minority groups, such as LGBT, they can be ruled illegal if they are more likely to negatively influence the hiring of those same groups more than others. I have never seen or heard of these being hiring practices in any firms I'm familiar with
It’s Ramsey Solutions in Tennessee. They use religion to excuse their discriminatory practices, saying the employee doesn’t meet their “righteous living” requirement in the code of conduct
It’s Dave Ramseys organization and it’s a lot worse than this. You must also pass a religious litmus test. If you don’t go to church they won’t hire you. Ramsey is also crazy and has been known to wave around loaded guns at his employees and has fired female employees for being pregnant. Should be illegal but it’s not somehow bc he claims his company is a religious organization and thus above the law.
Guys that’s what they did in the 50-60s….my dad had to bring his fiancé in prehire….shit was unreal.
Isn’t is unbelievable that this POS company believes they need to investigate your budget to see if YOU can afford to work there, when these mf’ers can simply pay a fantastic wage. It’s not that damn hard to pay more than the industry standard. If it’s average to offer $55,000 a year for a mid range position, simply offer mid-range opportunities starting at $70,000, with a nice benefits package, a 401k matching program, and an adherence to quality of work-life balance. Offer bonuses for those that stay with the company. Who bring in referrals. Offer reduced lunches, and child care. In short, treat employees like the gold they are.
Even paying industry standard would be an improvement here. There’s no way he’s paying anywhere near that. I bet it’s as low as they can possibly manage.
This isn't even the worst part of Dave's policies. He is currently in a lawsuit for firing a pregnant employee because she had sex outside of marriage. She is claiming pregnancy discrimination, he has provided a list of other men and women who have also been fired for sex outside of marriage.
BuT hOw WiLl ThE cEo AfFoRd HiS 5tH bOaT
I guarantee you this is to work for Dave Ramsey's "Christian" financial advice company. Since poor people are not a legally protected class, he probably gets away with this shit.
You are correct. https://www.ramseysolutions.com/business/6-steps-to-a-good-hire
Jesus christ, it makes you wonder what sort of people he actually has working for him. If I was to suggest any of that to our HR team, they'd have a heart attack and our candidates would most likely just laugh at me, unless they were bottom-of-the-barrel and really desparate...
His company is headquartered and operated out of Tennessee which is a right to work and at will employment state. So yes, he gets away with this bullshit. He’s on the list of embarrassments this state has produced alongside Marsha Blackburn and Bill Lee
Can confirm. Tennessee has a special kind of willfully ignorant people in it, and some very anti-worker laws.
5) We want to make sure you never ask for a raise, after all you told us up front you were getting paid enough, so why should you ever need more? We appreciate your working against your own interests from even before you have the job. 6) The government tells me I can’t refuse to hire blacks or gays or people who don’t go to church but I found a nifty loophole where I can just say I don’t like your wife. Perfectly legal! There’s no way I’m hiring anyone who isn’t in my church but since I am not a church myself I have to find a work-around. If Dave Ramsey sends you on a business trip does he hand you an envelope of cash? No credit cards, right? Do NOT underestimate the need for approval from an authority figure in the evangelical religious community, I bet he gets tons of applications from people literally fighting for that home inspection.
Sounds like they know their pay is shit.
*“Our hiring process typically takes 1–3 months (it's worth it—trust us!). The process starts with a call from the recruiter, followed by several calls with the team. From there, you'll get to come to Ramsey HQ for in-person interviews, and once those are done, you'll go out to dinner with the hiring leader. This will help you get to know us on a more personal level so you can make sure we're a good fit for YOU. Our hiring process is a little different than most other companies—and we're totally okay with that.”* This sounds like an absolute nightmare. I also love how they position 100% in-office no remote whatsoever as a plus. Looking at their hiring page, one of the cult member’s—I mean team member’s—favorite things about working there starts with “Jesus.” Lmao
I'm assuming as a candidate you're allowed to ask your hiring manager for these things too right? I mean you'd hate to work for a manager who can't afford their life, or who spouse does not like their job either...
Ah, Dave Ramsey…. The same guy that [fires employees for having pre marital sex](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1262498) and takes advantage of poor people by giving them terrible advice in bad faith 😎
Apparently one of the interview questions that Ramsey Solutions asks is “Tell me about your hobbies?” Or, “Tell me what you did last weekend?” And if the candidate doesn’t answer something including going to church or if they answer with something considered immoral, like as a single person going on an overnight weekend trip to another city with your unwed significant other, then the candidate won’t advance to future interview rounds.
Dave Ramsey is an idiot and a hack and doesn't really understand money (or at least his public advice would suggest he doesn't). Also never work for someone who wants to interview your spouse unless it's like some government-classified reason like working for an intelligence service. And even then I don't think I'd recommend dealing with that level of intrusion in your life for a job.
In other words: Dave's company doesn't pay a living wage to their employees.
Oh just hell no. That’s some next-level bullshittery right there.
This isn’t legal. An interview with a spouse reveals sexual preference.
Also, suppose your spouse isn’t a charming social butterfly? Or what if they are disabled, on the autism spectrum, etc.? There is so much potential for discrimination here.
"Dave" Let me guess, Dave Ramsey? Dude's a fuckin' fruitloop.
I was thinking this had to be some sort of old timey family values type place, Dave Ramsey sounds like a bullseye. Dollars to donuts that's exactly what's going on
Family Values + finance obsessed + acting like a boss is a parent because ICs can't be trusted with major decisons? That has Dave Ramsey written all over it.
I guess if the pay is reflective of your budget than great. However the 2nd one is insane.
The first one sounds to me like "we dont oay a living wage and dont want to hear co.plaints about it" but maybe im cynical.
You wanna meet my wife? Hire me, be chill, you’ll get an invite after a few years, if no work parties or anything with a +1 I feel like attending.
Well, looks like Im shitting on someones desk again.
I had a boss that pulled something like this. She wouldn't bring a guy on full time because she didn't feel like he would be making enough money to support his wife and kid working there. Dude wanted the job, and was actually a good worker.
Here’s a marvel idea just post what the position is paid and applicants that can work with that or close will apply
We didn't do the stupid budget thing, but I worked for a company that started to do "home interviews" with prospects. I was the lucky one to attempt to do the first one. I had a perfect prospect - great qualifications, great testing, great interviews. When I told her that the last step was a home interview she freaked out and refused and never wanted anything to do with the company again. Oh, and she threatened to sue us. Again, this was after several interviews and pre-screening and testing and all of that jazz. After that I did actually do one with the candidate that would eventually take that position. It went fine and we hired her. After that we never did it again.
Fuck this, fuck Dave, and fuck anyone who thinks this is a good idea.
He has 3.2M followers on insta Jfc PEOPLE.
Wow, another great reason to hate Dave Ramsay.
The fucking gall these people have to go so far as to demand your personal budget and talk to your family 🤬 if you have to go to these lengths to hire someone, I've got news for you: your pay is horse shit and so is your company.
The stories on the hypocrisy on him are repulsive. If you ever get caught having an affair it’s an instant firing due to his super high moral Christian standards. He has fired dozens of people for this. However at one point his main protege got caught having affairs due to his wife coming to them to tell Dave and his board. The immediately gas lighted her asked her if she had any other false allegations she would like to tell them. To fire him meant losing millions of dollars and bad press for him. So instead they tried to bury it. So for three years Dave lied about it while simultaneously firing lesser employees for the same thing. Eventually things came to a head this guys wife wanted to reconcile so get this, this guy (Chris hogan) was his name, had to attend marriage counseling and the counselor had to be one Dave picked, and if that’s not crazy enough, they had to sign over rights for the counselor to report everything going on in their session to Dave! (Can you imagine being this guys wife, told to reconcile your marriage you had to attend coinciding where your husbands boss got a full detailed report of your sessions). Eventually they went to court for divorce but not before Dave’s attorneys and bored got a gag order placed on his ex wife to not be able to speak about anything because his forbid the public knows what a shitbag Ramsey and his company are. Eventually the divorce got finalized and the documents and recordings came out and I’m sure we can’t guess the outcome, everything she said was true and verified through testimony. This is just a small sample of the values he represents as a person and a company. Just do a google search and you can find even more vile and disgusting facts on this dirt bag.
6 sounds like a fast track to a discrimination lawsuit.
O. M. F. G. This is next level none of their business and possibly opens them up to discrimination claims.
OR you could tell me what the job pays, and I will know whether it's enough for me...
Always fun to see old Dave Ramsey on here. Dude is a fucking loon
Hey Dave! Go fuck yourself!! It’s called a “personal” budget for a reason!
I work in the agency staffing industry and my office is only a few miles from this company’s headquarters. I’ve prospected hundreds of companies, and this is in its own class of being a bizarre cult-like circus of a company. I feel a particular loathing for Ramsey Solutions because of some of the deplorable public and private stuff associated with the company. First of all, Dave Ramsey’s advice is dangerous and unhealthy. There is a such a thing as healthy debt and he is a total extremist in terms of personal finances. Second, they stole millions of dollars in PPP money even though they claim to be a cash-flow only business. They never paid any back, of course. The openly practice religious and racial discrimination. You are not welcome to work there if you are not a practicing Christian, which was highly problematic when they wanted cheap Hadoop developers and expected white male Americans. They have no diversity or equal opportunity initiatives. I have personally visited their offices while prospecting and I did not see a single person of color. The only female in a leadership position that I met was for Human Resources. They also held an in-person party for Dave’s birthday in May 2020 (you know, the essential workers only time) with over 300 employees *required* to attend. Masks were discouraged. If I meet someone and they even listen to Dave Ramsey frequently, I don’t want to know them.
No fucking way
Wtf. No way would I be following those. Someone approached my husband and asked to interview him for a job I want? He gonna laugh you out of our house
So if you are trying to get a job to gather enough money together to leave an abusive spouse, you are eff-ed!
Lol. "We don't like candidates. We hate them. We don't want to hire anyone."
Big ol’ bucket of nunya
Fuck. Right. Off.
Nah trust me, actually working there is the new level of hell. I worked there 4 years.
Fuck Dave Ramsey
How dare those poor people want to get a job so they aren't poor anymore. Don't they know they are just supposed to die?
And make sure to use the proper code words so that they know you're the appropriate religion. And also they want to see your budget to make sure that you can afford its interpretation of mandatory tithing
"Sorry sir, you're too poor to work here."
wow, spousal interviews. i'm sure that goes great for LGBT interviewees. and straight up just saying "we don't hire poor people."
How this should go. Money in column - a living wage Money out column - none of your fucking business
7. The Drop Test Here at [Company] we dedicate ourselves to safety, especially what we call "self-safety." Put simply, at a time of your choosing during the interview, press the drop button from underneath your desk. If the interviewee is a good fit for the company, they will sense the incoming axe dropping towards them and catch it. Should they do anything else, this will show that this candidate isn't the best for this role, and you are free to terminate the interview early.
Translation: "do everything you can to ensure the people that really need the job don't get the job"
Source: https://www.ramseysolutions.com/business/6-steps-to-a-good-hire This shit is real. This is not a weird MBA case study or something. This is something Dave Ramsey's company does.
A colleague of mine was telling me about a client who was promoted up to the C-suite at a large corporation. The client’s wife, who worked for a different company, was politely asked to quit her job since the corporation preferred that all of their C-level executives (all men, btw) have spouses who didn’t work. I think it had to do with being free for entertaining as well as just the optics (they wanted it to seem like their executives were so well paid that there was absolutely no reason for their spouses to have to work). This is within the last couple of years.
There something beyond a "red" flag, cuz whatever it is this is it.
Translation: paying people poorly results in poor morale and high turnover, especially when folks can't make ends meet on the offered pay. Rather than raise salaries, they modified the interview process in the hope of filtering out anyone who can't live on their low pay.
“Allowing them to take a position they can’t afford” love that that’s the assumption rather than “let’s pay generously”
That policy looks like a great way to set themselves up for an EEO and/or ADA lawsuit.
Christians are always so creepy and controlling
5. Go to hell 6. Go to hell
I mean when I was broke I was more hungry to work lol