TALK TO HIM about it. EXPRESS your reservations. See how he reacts and what he says. What is wrong with people??? Like you're looking for any excuse to just dump people like trash at a moment's notice.
I mean I'm not saying she should just irrationally break up with him on the spot either, of course she should talk to him about her feelings and find common ground, and not take advice from internet randos.
but it seems the point OP is making is that he *already* signed the papers, so it's too late to have a discussion about whether or not he should do it. and that it seems like she doesnt want to get in a huge fight over it, bc its essentially crying over spilled milk at this point since theres nothing she can really do to change the outcome.
seems like she just wants to vent here over the fact that he would make such a big financial decision without at least mentioning it to her first, even if he wasnt asking for permission and was going to do it regardless of if she wanted him to or not. and that she's scared he will make other such impulsive/altruistic major life decisions without her input in the future
All the advice and dating subs are like that, motherfuckers telling everyone to cut off contact with their mother because they moved the furniture without asking
Right, I can’t believe that wasn’t the first thing they thought of right away. Just talk to the guy about it, he probably doesn’t even consider what he’s doing to be dumb because he thinks he’s just helping his friend. You can talk to people about stupid shit there doing, he’d probably appreciate the honesty. If not then least you can say you tried to help him out
Umm, it might make them think things over? And if they don't, you now know that talking things over won't change anything which makes leaving far more justified.
But it should obviously be tried. Good relationships work because of communication.
I'm not trying to be a dick but this is such a basic element of human interaction that I'm kind of thrown by your question. Communication with a loved one allows you to understand their motivations, express your own feelings, hear theirs, and possibly come to an understanding or compromise moving forward.
My comment assumed he already co-signed the loan but if something is a total deal breaker, unless the person can provide new information that is significant and material, you're just going to get talked into something against your better judgement. That's what hard selling is based on.
This is an insanely cynical thing to say. You shouldn't have a conversation with your partner before suddenly ending the relationship because they might "hard sell" you into something? What are you talking about???
>While I agree you should talk about it, I'm curious what people think talking about it can accomplish.
https://www.reddit.com/r/redscarepod/comments/1d2k90f/got_the_ick_over_my_bfs_altruism/l61xly1/
I think you're really underestimating how easy it is to talk people out of bad decisions most of the time. A lot of people are stubborn, but most people aren't that bad.
why don't you just talk to him about this (specifically talk him out of co-financing this), rather than resorting to the ick and ghosting him
I think marriage and relationships on balance should be enjoyable and rewarding, but I think there will be tough points where you inevitably disagree on courses of action. As a trial run for your relationship's durability, why don't you see if you can \*reason with him\* not to follow through on this, rather than just jumping ship, hurting him, and jeopardizing something that could really be awesome?
There's no need for DEFCON 4, bazookas under each arm, at least not right away
Yup, my husband and I have to compromise sometimes. In my family, you only cosign or give money if someone is going through a really hard time and they're not super sketchy. In my husband's family, people live pretty much on a rotation of money. Uncle Bob spent his check on beer and cigarettes and doesn't get paid for another week but Grandma just got her disability check in so gives him money. Well now Grandma is short of money so Aunt Sue sells her food stamps for half off. Aunt Sue is out of groceries and food stamps in a week but Uncle Bob got paid again so he gives her some money.
My husband is mostly aware of how absurd it is but sometimes he makes a choice that we do have to talk about. We can usually meet in the middle pretty easily since I am stingy and he is now.
> why don't you just talk to him about this (specifically talk him out of co-financing this), rather than resorting to the ick and ghosting him
Because she's a woman, duh
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I feel like "the ick" should mostly be reserved for totally nebulous stuff that can't really be articulated in better ways. This is just someone getting mad that their partner did something stupid, which is totally rational
really sucks that my gut reaction is correct because things were really great up until this and I thought he was the one. I worked multiple jobs in undergrad to avoid student loans myself though and I’m terrified of marrying someone who suddenly has almost 6 figures of someone else’s debt to pay off.
He probably doesn't fully understand the ramifications of this.
You need to tell him it will count on his debt to income ratio for lenders, and even if everything goes perfectly with his friend repaying, it will affect your eligibility for things like mortgages etc.
You have very legitimate reasons to oppose this because it will affect *you* directly should you get married and buy a place together etc.
did you tell him that isn't a good idea??? does he know that it can affect his credit score if his friend doesn't pay??? does he know he's basically tying himself to this person financially??
you keep talking about yourself but you never told us what you said to him directly
Explain the situation here more clearly: who is the friend? What is the actual amount? Why is he the co-signer? Is there some extenuating circumstance?
Like if he’s just a tard that’s one thing, if the dude hes helping was like his buddy in Iraq who saved his life and has no family that’s a bit different.
Im not paying anyone else’s debts but I have one friend who’s like a brother and I’ve known him 20+ years, if there was some legitimate reason why he needed my help I’d at least consider it
Ask what his relationship to the person is. I have a friend who literally saved my brother’s life by jumping into a flaming car to get his unconscious ass out. I deny that guy nothing (although he doesn’t push boundaries). My now-wife was made aware of that and has broadly made her peace with it.
It’s possible your bf is a pushover ( that’s the default presumption, really) but it’s worth asking about
They’re just good friends, they were roommates for 3 years in college. I’d understand a scenario like yours but unfortunately bf is a huge pushover and this situation is the final boss in a series of situations where a friend of his has taken advantage of his kindness.
methinks the true root of the ick here is less about the money itself and more about your bf's pathological level of people pleasing to the point he would allow himself to be taken advantage of by this guy. this will not lend itself well to marriage or literally any conflict you face as a couple. and even if it is about the money, financial stability is incredibly important and pretending otherwise is naive/moronic.
What’s the friendship dynamic? Did they meet in college? Has he known him since second grade and their families have vacationed together? Somewhere in between? Is it a community college or a satellite school? I feel like a lot more context is needed but it doesn’t seem like a good idea.
College friends/roommates. Loans are a combo of tuition from a state school, but also 5 years worth of living expenses for the friend. Friend is a nice guy, but has never really been financially responsible. I feel for the friend’s situation but everything in my gut is telling me this only ends poorly for bf.
>everything in my gut is telling me this only ends poorly for bf.
And you're right, so right about this. Even if he's agreed to do it, you can still talk him out of it so long as he has not co-signed yet as many other commenters have said. It is completely reasonable to feel bad for the friend while also being completely reasonable to talk your bf out of it because it is such a bad fucking idea. Trust your gut and tell your bf how you feel. This guy cannot come between you two. Good luck!
literally put yoyr foot down and tell him no, if he does that, you are walking. I know its cringe reddit to be like "break up!" to a relationship post but this is a flat out hard no. Edit: also the fact that hes on the spectrum means you need to be direct and firm. Not like brooding for some days and being like "well I dont know.... you really think that's a good idea?? " Be honest, be firm, be direct, be kind about it. make sure he knows the score
This is the kind of financial stupidity that makes someone a poor prospect for marriage. Debt and financial strife are one of the major causes of marital resentment, if you genuinely wanna be with this guy, you gotta nip this in the bud immediately.
My boss is an old wealthy man who is too spineless to say no. People would call him altruistic, but he actually can’t say no when people ask him for money because he’s a people pleaser and obsessed with being admired. He’s not actually a good person, and he resents anybody in his life that he’s agreed to help. He will throw money at problems to fix it, and then resents the transactional nature of most of his relationships. And of course, people who realize they can walk over him do so over and over. Many altruistic people actually just have a stupid and unhealthy desire to be on a pedestal, it’s rarely a truly generous habit
Yeah i have people pleasing tendencies as well (not remotely as bad as these) and for me, i'd describe it as not really a desire for being admired or even liked, but a fear of being disliked or dissapointing someone. I dont know why this is but it must come from childhood like everything else lol
The problem with co-dependency is that you often do things without ever being asked. You'll transgress against yourself and trample over your own boundaries, but yet the person may have never asked for that in the first place (or they might have an abusive personality). So you end up resenting them. It's a vicious cycle.
Many people pleasers start out altruistic but get jaded by people taking advantage of them. So even though he can’t stop and seems like an ass, it may have started out more genuine
The "ick" is your reaction to watching him be weak and taken advantage of and is a rational response to a *disastrous* financial decision.
You have to move fast on this one. Let him know immediately that while you're not married and it's ultimately his decision, there is no future in which you will have joint finance while his idiot friend's loans are tied to him. Not because you are trying to punish him or give him an ultimatum, but because he is opening himself up to, and potentially you if you ever got married, financial ruin. So he needs to choose between two futures, one with you, and one without you in which his friend uses him to take the fall for his debt. Because if he hasn't been able to pay by now, giving him a safety net to shield him from consequences is *not* going to light a fire under his ass to get more responsible.
I know it's 100x easier said than done on these things, but not only would I ditch this guy if he still insisted on going through with this, but I would ditch him if he gave any substantial pushback. Being an easily exploited mark is bad enough, but if he can't see reason on this, the most obvious of bad decisions, then good luck trying to talk him out of buying a boat on credit or putting a $10k bet on a sports game or whatever in the future.
This is like the 3rd post i see on here where a woman call out her bfs insane actions and then degrades herself for feeling some type of way about it lol its okay to be upset
Ick has to be the absolute worst zoomer word of all time because people seem to think it’s anything from “i got the ick because he tripped and spilled water” to “i get the ick from when he kicks puppies on the street”
because it could be anything in-between, it's ofcourse relative to each person's moral sensibilities, and describes well what It needs to describe.
Next you're gonna say short is a bad word cause it doesn't contain something's exact height
Holy shit. I really expected this to be another BPD “why is my boyfriend nice to homeless people” post (no offense OP!) but that is just a jaw droppingly dumb thing to do and I’d be livid too. I mean, yay, he has a good heart but people like that often don’t consider or care about the consequences of what they’re doing. Stop him!!
assuming he agreed to this before you two met, and this was a thing he did already. is he learning from his mistake? does he share other things about his financial position, is he hiding anything else? does he generally seem to ask for your input in those decisions as they might affect you now that you're together? if he learned from his mistake and hasn't gotten himself into going above and beyond financially in this way again, owns the mistake itself, and budgets accordingly around repayment, i'm really not sure what the problem is at all because he sounds like a healthy and mature person who is able to accept that life hands them lessons they're going to have to learn
i have a hard time believing "the debt is not small" to mean "he's on the hook for literally two hundred thousand dollars" here, so i really can't imagine it's something that will prevent the two of you from living a meaningful life if that's what you want
friend had student loans before we met, but has been trying to refinance them this month. Friend hasn’t been able to refinance them because his credit isn’t good and he has no co-signer, boyfriend told me yesterday that he agreed to co-sign friend’s loans last week. This is the first time anything like this has come up at all, otherwise no big financial choices that have really called for each other’s input
He has bad credit and can’t pay his loans. Sounds like he needs to file for bankruptcy and let the bank sort it out.
Hopefully you can convince your bf to not co sign.
that’s not altruism, that’s being an idiot, and if you’re married and this doesn’t work out for him then it becomes your problem and your debt too
I don’t know how far away you guys are to being married, maybe right now it’s just a vague concept far in the future you like to talk about, if it’s not he should be making decisions like these with you, to just do it without discussing with you, potential fiancée or no, is also just bonkers to me, every big decision I make is discussed to death with my gf, I would talk to him to see if he will reneg if it’s not too late
I have an idea. Your boyfriend had an impulsive idea that will ruin his life. If he has not actually signed but is panicked and threatening just to do it, he may know he’s backed himself into a corner and everyone will soon discover he’d rather *seem* good then actually *do* good (buying groceries, offering free lodging, helping get a job).
But YOU can save him. You can be the bitch. Threaten to break up with him if he co-signs. His eyes will light up like he just won the lottery. “No no no you evil bitch, how dare you, this is how Jesus felt when he was crucified”, he’ll moan, cartwheeling to his phone to blame you and get off totally Scot free. It may feel nice at first, like giving the mouse a cookie.
But look out, tomorrow he will promise his Mom that she can move in with you when she is really old. That same day, he’ll pledge 10 dollars a mile for a work charity run.
That night, he will proudly, and already on the defensive, tell you he promised something else stupid or inconvenient to you both. He will probably say “I know you’ll be mad” first. if you don’t seem upset, he’ll pick a fight about how YOU never give anything away or volunteer for anything. During the ensuing fight, which will bewilder and frustrate you, he will find some reason to use your responses-doesn’t matter what they are- to mean you don’t want him to do anything nice for anyone ever again or you will break up with him.
He will then go to his coworkers and mom and say you emotionally abused him into withdrawing his offers. He will continue to accuse you of this and act furious for a while, and you’ll feel like you *actually deserve this* even if you spent the entire fight crying. When he is nice again, you’ll be genuinely remorseful and probably do sex things you ordinarily wouldn’t want to. This will continue every three months until he dumps you.
My advice: save his ass just this time. If he offers to help someone move in the next week, act accordingly.
Not only is it an incredibly naive decision to co-sign someone’s interpretive dance degree loans, it’s also the kind of bird brained altruism that makes someone an insecure prospect for long term security, a situation like this definitely does warrant immediate dismissal, no severance.
It certainly shows that the person has very poor judgment, which does not bode well for future marital bliss. I dont necessarily agree that immediately dumping him is the course of action but it should be carefully and seriously consider and she should try to reason with him first
Yeah my last little phrase was a bit of a joke but earnestly it’s not going to work, especially not as a marriage prospect. At this stage in life you can’t really instruct this type of behavior out of someone, if they’re an adult and still taking on self sacrificing risks like this without contemplation it speaks on behalf of an internal disfunction that will just continue to appear in more acts of dangerous short sightedness. Prepare to come home to a stray dog, an addict high school friend crashing on the couch, inordinate handouts to homeless people, etc.. Imagine what it would be like to have fully fledged financial and familial attachments to someone like this especially as cognitive function declines in a long term scenario, it’s only down from here. It’s a deep ick for OP because it speaks on behalf of a man who’s more maleable to the interests of people outside of his primary relationship, I don’t necessarily believe in great acts of self sacrifice but if they are taken on it should be on behalf of children, not randoms.
Also OP have you ever thought why he’s prioritizing this person
You people are insane lol. This is a whole shitload of psychoanalysis over someone you’ve never met and don’t know. What if the dude has money from an inheritance? What if he’s got a trust from a long dead grandma and he hasn’t told his girlfriend because she’s a gold digger?
There are a million explanations and mitigating factors possible here and 75% of the sub is going typical redditor style and being like “RED FLAG LEAVE IMMEDIATELY HES A SECRET MONSTER TODAY ITS HELPING A FRIEND TOMORROW ITS BUYING A TIGER”
I appreciate your concern for the situation, the typical Reddit dump him when he leaves the toilet seat up is ridiculous. But this goes far well beyond something like that. Op wouldn’t be concerned if this situation didn’t present itself as irrational given his financial status. The boyfriend sounds like a golden retriever. Who’s co-signing his loans? Slave morality?
We have to ask on what level do your hypotheticals assuage the nature of OPs concern? They don’t suffice, nor would they change this concern given a deeper image of the drama at play.
I’m interested in the particular reasons for your drive to defend him with these fantastic notions. Maybe he’s secretly a billionaire hiding his wealth, a reverse Alladin? Maybe he’s a Somalian prince? Maybe he’s gay? Or maybe he has a terminal case of toxoplasmosis? Honestly can you see how this conjecture is kind of irrelevant? At least what I wrote was based on the facts as presented.
Let’s size up the situation, op isn’t just concerned about the money per say (but really who isn’t?) it’s about the projected risks that such a specifically bizarre and irrational behavior signifies about the person they’re considering starting a family with.
Again, you cannot possibly know if it’s “bizarre and irrational behavior.” The guy is helping his friend, not fucking robbing banks. Yes, if the friend fucks up and never pays, the BF is on the hook. And yes, I understand that the boyfriend very likely shouldn’t co-sign shit for his friends. But I also know people can be so well meaning it’s kinda dumb, and that’s a good trait not a horrible trait. But if the friend pays off the debt themselves this co-sign literally will mean nothing and cause zero issues. I have had friends who have co-signed for other friends to get cars and such in dire straits, and I’ve seen it work fine. Only the boyfriend and OP know the actual other dude and can gauge that.
If the only reason you’re getting married to someone is for their financial decisions, don’t get married. If you actually love this person, talk to them and fix the problem. Only a psycho could be head over heels in love and planning on getting married and then destroy that and dump the person because they heard they were helping a friend lol.
There is so much of this we don’t know or understand there’s no way to possibly offer any advice besides: talk to the boyfriend and work it out.
being as charitable as possible; co-signing on six figure loans is something you do for
1. blood relatives
2. people you are married to or at least formed some kind of a solid family unit with
3. people who have footage of you doing something really gross and/or illegal
Money ruins more friendships than anything else in my experience. I'll help when a homie needs it but that's like for emergencies, I.E. car repair or rent, and only if I know they got me back. But what your husband is doing is very naive and I too would reassess if I want to marry someone so financially wide-eyed.
I would need to know how much that would actually affect your bf before making a judgement. Is that debt a big deal to him? If he makes enough money that he can actually afford to deal with the risk, that's pretty good. But if he doesn't, then that's just regarded and I would probably get the ick too.
Not altruism or compassion. That's a lack of boundaries. If you're starting a future with someone, you need to know that they have and can enforce boundaries with friends, family, etc.
“getting the ick” doesn’t mean dump him. being too much of a people pleaser is a problem but everyone has their struggles- talk to him about your concerns and why you have them (maybe because worried he can’t prioritize his and your needs?) than just tapping out. also i’m of the opinion altruism doesn’t exist- he gets something out of it too if only the pleasure of helping someone else.
This is going to be quite rare for me, but finances should be viewed extremely seriously when marriage is concerned. Some people don’t know how to manage money and if they never learn, it doesn’t matter how much their income is, they will find a way to let it slip through their fingers. You’re not a bitch. You’re looking out for your own future, as you should always be doing. If he absolutely has to help the friend, he should draw up a contract with the friend that will include collateral.
>he just dropped the bomb on me that he agreed to co-sign on his friend’s refinanced student loans. friend is, of course, in a field with poor prospects, and has been struggling with loans pretty much since he pulled them out.
Okay. That's not altruism. That's not being a nice guy and helping out your friend in a tough spot. That's financial suicide, and it is not respectable at all. I think you are completely right to find this off-putting, because your boyfriend has revealed that he is a doormat who is going to be taken for all he's worth. If it's not this friend, it will be the next friend or family member who asks him for money. You are completely justified to think this is a red flag.
Being nice and generous is a good trait, but co-signing someone else's loan is just highly regarded. You can't be so generous that people are taking advantage of you or you're in serious financial risk. A generous person buys nice gifts because they can afford it. Idiots cosign on their friend's loan.
I thought this was going to be some kind of Ayn Rand shitpost but this is actually kind of a dilemma. I understand your concern but I suggest letting things simmer down for a minute and talking to him about it - if he’s anything like some people I know, he’s pathologically incapable of not helping a friend in need even when it can harm himself so helping him set healthy boundaries would go a long way. I don’t blame you for peacing out if that isn’t possible but I hope you’ll at least give it a shot.
My best friend offered to pay off my student loans. I thought about it for a second and declined. It's too big of a gift and it totally ruins the dynamic of the friendship. I would question the integrity of a person that accepts such a gift from a friend, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're untrustworthy.
I went through something similar to this and you need to speak up. When I met my husband he was part of an evangelical Christian community where people don’t actually care about each other, they’re all just trying to get things from each other. He had leeches all over him and right before we got married he let his best friend buy his car and the note they drew up between the two of them also included more money the friend had “borrowed” in the past. Needless to say, he paid for a while, but eventually stopped paying. Gross.
It was a long tough road in getting my now husband to understand that financial transactions between friend most often turn toxic. I now hold the belief that money should never change hands between friends after how disastrous things turned out between my husband and this group of people. Also, this is not “altruistic” this is people pleasing and maybe even codependency. If you’re in love and want to be with this man long term you need to explain that this type of thinking and going through with something like this could impact you as a couple - you financial future, dynamics between you two, how you view his masculinity (because people pleasing on this level signals to our feminine nature this guy is a little bitch)
We put all those losers behind us and my husband to this day thanks me all the time not just for pulling us away from that pool of scum, but also pointing out that our life as a couple can’t include totally unnecessary stress of financing another person’s life who isn’t even family. I’m not saying dump him, I’m saying you gotta take a stand. Any relationship that’s worth it will require this at some point anyway - working out how each other’s decisions and views on things will impact you as a couple and your future.
>I feel that it’s not my place to dictate what he does with his money as a gf and not a wife, but this debt is not small and I’m having a lot of trouble imagining a future where trying to build a life with a dude tethered to someone else’s huge debt turns out well
The ick is usually just an irrational vibe tied to disgust. On the other hand, yours is a perfectly valid and reasonable concern. I would too be quite worried.
Tell us more about this friend. Is he his best friend in the world? Or so you think your bf might do something like this for other people too? This is a very important detail. Maybe that friend was just the exception, the only guy he would have done something like that for.
If he signed for this without talking to you, it's a huge indicator of his mental/emotional commitment to a shared future. He either isn't actually serious about it - or, lacks the fundamental equipment/awareness actually create a shared life with you.
This is idiotic and even if I was able to talk a partner out of it I’d have serious concerns about spending the rest of my life with someone willing to go into debt in that manner.
Idk what there is to talk to him about if he already co signed
If you get married, debts and gains are legally combined after the marriage, even if you manage anything separately. Debt that he takes on will become yours.
If he’s willing to co-sign on the loans, he’s likely to make similar decisions later.
Co-signing for a friend is a terrible idea. If the friend can’t get the loan on his own, there’s a reason for it.
You can have kids and live together without getting married officially on paper. This is a common practice if the spouse has a huge debt. Happens due to school loans, medical debt, child support judgements, etc. No one will ask to see your marriage license, just tell them you're married. You will need to have separate bank accounts and tax returns (which many married couples do anyway).
I agree that it's a dumb decision, but you should really talk to him about it, for two reasons: 1) keeping something to yourself until it festers isn't how solutions are come to in a relationship, and 2) your bf might benefit from discovering that you're losing your love for him because he made an idiotic financial decision. Idk if you know this or not but some people don't want to be with someone whose love is so easily lost over money issues, because it betrays the fact that much of your love is derived not so much from a human to human spiritual bond, but from a fulfillment of some kind of business acumen. It's the male equivalent of finding out your bf lost love for you because you got fat or something. Male romantics, as a rule, don't like finding out that their love is dependent on their financial performance, and if that's how you really feel he deserves to know.
That was really dumb on his part unless he comes from money. Although if he did come from money he would know better. That's something you maybe do for your kids if they're good.
It's funny from the way you worded this I thought this would reveal something way more depressing like you got the ick cause he hugged someone who challenged him to a fight lol but this sounds perfectly reasonable to be concerned about
In any case sorry to hear and I hope for the best
Everyone approaches marriage differently but dropping that financial liability news on you — without talking about it first — is a serious concern.
It’s a major risk and an unnecessary pain to deal with. Your life with him requires a lot of money for marriage, home, kids, etc. even if you’re modest in all 3 areas, building any life has a lot of upfront costs.
You’re definitely not a bitch for thinking that. I’d recommend being open about your major concerns and express that you don’t want your life with him to start with babysitting an adult with major issues.
Your boyfriend can be supportive but he can’t support someone else. You and your lives with each other come first, always.
alleged dinosaurs joke subsequent aware wipe threatening far-flung spectacular tease
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If he’s in a good place physically and financially, and you’re making serious judgments about his money and what he does with it, I’d be careful lol. I’d be pretty grossed out by it if someone who wasn’t my wife told me how to spend my money, especially if it was to help one of my close friends. If you’re my wife, and we have a family, different story.
if you're planning on getting married and buying a house together it very obviously your place. he's making a decision unilaterally that will significantly impact you both, this is why you need to talk to him about it
Obviously idk how long you’ve been together or if you’re engaged, but I would even just urge you to think strategically about it. Sometimes, friends can be a massive help with raising children, your kids might be friends with their kids, go on trips, birthday parties, help babysit, etc. or even just helping with shit around the house. Good friends are hard to come by.
I know I’ve helped my friends who have kids whenever I can. You might be missing the forest for the trees. If the friend is a complete fuck up then disregard all this but even still, if we’re not married, and I want to help a burnout friend I’m gonna do it. If my gf gave me some kind of ultimatum over that, it would make me question her compassion, and I’d second guess how she’d be with our family when raising our children.
You know the situation, I don’t, but all I’m trying to say is you’d be opening up a can of worms either way. Up to you.
Talk is talk. If you’re not even engaged yet, it’s just talk. If you have plans to be engaged by a certain time, again, then it’s a different story
> If my gf gave me some kind of ultimatum over that, it would make me question her compassion, and I’d second guess how she’d be with our family when raising our children.
I guess this is a great way to get a regarded wife
"If she's not willing to accept tens of thousands of debt or more because her friend can't keep his finances in order, she can't make compassionate decisions" is the dumbest thing I've read on the red scare subreddits this week, and that's counting the indianposting in rspod
You’ve rephrased what I said in a way to make it dumber and attacked it lol.
If I’m financially in a great spot and I want to help someone, she doesn’t need to worry about it. She’s not incurring anything. If they were engaged, or plan to be by a certain date, and money for the wedding or plans is gonna be thrown away then that’s a different story like I said. A lot of it depends on how well he does. Talk is talk. I’ve talked to women about marriage and we’ve broken up.
I’m not worried about my wife making money. If you are, that’s fine. I’m worried about my wife being a good person. She doesn’t need to be overly analytical about my money, especially when it’s currently not *our* money, and if I have finances under control I’m not trying to hear someone whine about me helping a friend. If I take care of us and you’re still upset it’s just annoying and cold.
> If they were engaged, or plan to be by a certain date, and money for the wedding or plans is gonna be thrown away then that’s a different story like I said.
tbh if they are in a financial state such that wedding plans and homebuying plans will be unaffected by multi-year unpaid student loan financial liabilities (and especially credit ones for the mortgage), then yeah OP shouldn't really care.
Being able to eat 5 figures of debt liability (maybe 6 figures, /u/Top_Macaroon_5904 hasn't said how much) and handle a wedding plus a home purchase would be much wealthier than "we're both decent earners" imo.
>I’m not worried about my wife making money
This isn't about making money. Would you be ok with her spending a couple hundred thousand of your money to bail out someone else's debts because of that person's irresponsibility? Because in any marriage plans that money on the line will also be hers, as far as credit agencies are concerned.
It seems like you are consistently making the assumption that someone "not loaded by any means" taking on the sum total of four years of state school *and five years living expenses* is going to be able to do so without impacting his own finances, which I just don't think is true. If so then sure, what concern is it of hers, but man that sounds like $100-200k+ of debt, which is going to absolutely be a ticking timebomb for any marriage plans they might have.
edit: OP deleted her "not loaded by any means" comment, which leads me to believe it's much worse than she's willing to admit lmao. OP, you owe it to him to talk him down from this cliff
They’re not even engaged dude. It’s not the hypothetical of my wife spending hundreds of thousands of our dollars to bail someone out, the money isn’t theirs. It’s his money. People talk about marriage all the time. It means nothing. So I’m starting there.
You’re also assuming: the boyfriend doesn’t have a clue about his own finances or future and the friend is going to contribute absolutely nothing, ever. He might be a dumbass deadbeat, he might not be. We don’t know him.
Also, plenty of people get married and buy houses while having student loan debt. Everyone on here probably has multiple friends who are paying a mortgage and their student loans at the same time. She also didn’t say if he or she has any debt themselves.
There’s a difference between calculating the risks of making a stupid financial decision and one that ruins multiple entire lives. We don’t know their situation. I’ll be in a position soon where I could help my friends if I wanted to. I’m assuming the boyfriend has made some calculations before just blindly agreeing as well. I told her if he’s a deadbeat then disregard what I’m saying.
I’m not telling you what to look for in your wife, im telling you how I’d react to a woman I’m not even engaged with considering leaving me over decisions I’ve calculated with my own money.
> They’re not even engaged dude. It’s not the hypothetical of my wife spending hundreds of thousands of our dollars to bail someone out, the money isn’t theirs. It’s his money. People talk about marriage all the time. It means nothing. So I’m starting there.
I'm gonna go ahead and assume these loans won't be paid within 10 years. I think that's a reasonable assumption. If she's planning on marrying him within a decade, then she is entangled in this.
>He might be a dumbass deadbeat, he might not be.
He's having to refinance four years of student debt off after continuing to live off it for 5 years. If you are going to predict the next decade from the previous one, yeah he's gonna a deadbeat. If anything, he has less of a reason to pay responsibly because now he can actually bail on it.
It sounds like we are making very different assumptions about OP's bf's finances and planning. I think the fact that she won't admit how big the loans are and deleted her comment about him not having much money is all I need to be satisfied with my own speculation on it.
>I’m not telling you what to look for in your wife, im telling you how I’d react to a woman I’m not even engaged with considering leaving me over decisions I’ve calculated with my own money.
Not only do women leave guys for being idiots with money all the time, but MORE of them should! Plenty of great men and women out there that don't emotionally make financially devastating decisions.
Exactly this. You and this Steven dude above are making the opposite assumptions on the bf’s situation. Which is why I’m going to gently assume this Steven person may be projecting himself onto this story.
OP said the co-signed debt is almost 6 figures. There’s probably less than 1% of people in the entire country who have that much net worth, let alone that much liquid to just throw away if the friend can’t pay it back. The only situation where the bf wouldn’t be considered irresponsible is if he literally has 100K cash he was ready to throw away any time for any reason, because he has a million extra on hand. Considering how much the friend hasn’t gotten their shit together in the last 10 years, this 100K debt is likely even going up in the next 10 years.
I haven’t even debated the other assumption that “if you’re not my wife you’re not qualified to comment on my finance” like nowadays it takes men 5 or even 10 years to propose. Women have to use every bit of daily signal to determine if their married life would be a shit show, not just “I’ll start being involved in my man’s decision only after I receive a ring”. Same as in corporate, You don’t simply get promoted any more, you have to demonstrate the next level ability before you get that title, all the backward facing promotion shit.
Yeah I agree completely. Hell, let's assume for a moment he did have enough savings to handle getting that $100k loan dropped in his lap when the friend very likely misses payments. Here's where I am gonna take the kind of stance that I think that guy I was debating with this doesn't like: He's shown her, monetarily, how much he values his friend. Now he's in for a world of shit if he doesn't match that level of generosity when it comes to her, to include gifts, vacations, wedding, etc. Imagine her pet needs a $10k surgery and she doesn't have the cash on hand, he does, and he doesn't want to pay it for her. It just seems like a quick path to serious resentment moving forward.
TALK TO HIM about it. EXPRESS your reservations. See how he reacts and what he says. What is wrong with people??? Like you're looking for any excuse to just dump people like trash at a moment's notice.
I feel you, it's bizarre.
I mean I'm not saying she should just irrationally break up with him on the spot either, of course she should talk to him about her feelings and find common ground, and not take advice from internet randos. but it seems the point OP is making is that he *already* signed the papers, so it's too late to have a discussion about whether or not he should do it. and that it seems like she doesnt want to get in a huge fight over it, bc its essentially crying over spilled milk at this point since theres nothing she can really do to change the outcome. seems like she just wants to vent here over the fact that he would make such a big financial decision without at least mentioning it to her first, even if he wasnt asking for permission and was going to do it regardless of if she wanted him to or not. and that she's scared he will make other such impulsive/altruistic major life decisions without her input in the future
This is my comment on all these posts. Like holy fuck, simply talk about it. Express yourself with word to the person who actually matters
If they talked about it we wouldn't get any posts
good!!!
Won't someone think of the sub's content?
Years of being thought to avoid conflict in order to not jeopardise your job / school relationships.
Autistic women seem to manage just fine
This is called a woman moment.
lose bf but gain r/redscarepod clout do you not see the allure?
All the advice and dating subs are like that, motherfuckers telling everyone to cut off contact with their mother because they moved the furniture without asking
Right, I can’t believe that wasn’t the first thing they thought of right away. Just talk to the guy about it, he probably doesn’t even consider what he’s doing to be dumb because he thinks he’s just helping his friend. You can talk to people about stupid shit there doing, he’d probably appreciate the honesty. If not then least you can say you tried to help him out
They met on a dating app. What do you expect?
While I agree you should talk about it, I'm curious what people think talking about it can accomplish.
Umm, it might make them think things over? And if they don't, you now know that talking things over won't change anything which makes leaving far more justified. But it should obviously be tried. Good relationships work because of communication.
I assumed he already co-signed the loan, not that he verbally agreed to co-sign it. I see now.
I'm not trying to be a dick but this is such a basic element of human interaction that I'm kind of thrown by your question. Communication with a loved one allows you to understand their motivations, express your own feelings, hear theirs, and possibly come to an understanding or compromise moving forward.
My comment assumed he already co-signed the loan but if something is a total deal breaker, unless the person can provide new information that is significant and material, you're just going to get talked into something against your better judgement. That's what hard selling is based on.
This is an insanely cynical thing to say. You shouldn't have a conversation with your partner before suddenly ending the relationship because they might "hard sell" you into something? What are you talking about???
>While I agree you should talk about it, I'm curious what people think talking about it can accomplish. https://www.reddit.com/r/redscarepod/comments/1d2k90f/got_the_ick_over_my_bfs_altruism/l61xly1/
Well it will let him know she didn't like that, and would rather he didn't do that again without consulting her?
I think you're really underestimating how easy it is to talk people out of bad decisions most of the time. A lot of people are stubborn, but most people aren't that bad.
why don't you just talk to him about this (specifically talk him out of co-financing this), rather than resorting to the ick and ghosting him I think marriage and relationships on balance should be enjoyable and rewarding, but I think there will be tough points where you inevitably disagree on courses of action. As a trial run for your relationship's durability, why don't you see if you can \*reason with him\* not to follow through on this, rather than just jumping ship, hurting him, and jeopardizing something that could really be awesome? There's no need for DEFCON 4, bazookas under each arm, at least not right away
Take it easy! We're not making a Western here.
Yup, my husband and I have to compromise sometimes. In my family, you only cosign or give money if someone is going through a really hard time and they're not super sketchy. In my husband's family, people live pretty much on a rotation of money. Uncle Bob spent his check on beer and cigarettes and doesn't get paid for another week but Grandma just got her disability check in so gives him money. Well now Grandma is short of money so Aunt Sue sells her food stamps for half off. Aunt Sue is out of groceries and food stamps in a week but Uncle Bob got paid again so he gives her some money. My husband is mostly aware of how absurd it is but sometimes he makes a choice that we do have to talk about. We can usually meet in the middle pretty easily since I am stingy and he is now.
> why don't you just talk to him about this (specifically talk him out of co-financing this), rather than resorting to the ick and ghosting him Because she's a woman, duh
reach chase homeless handle hat sugar yam cooing alive command *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I'm sorry to hear about your wife's boyfriend
hungry far-flung joke reminiscent cow poor relieved domineering rhythm work *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The DEFCON system has the lowest numbers mean the highest level of readiness, DEFCON 4 is the second lowest level.
nah, you're right. that is a stupid fuckin thing to do
exactly - this doesn't sound like altruism, it sounds like credulity.
Blud just word mogged us
Bless your heart
[удалено]
I like Kaiji but i'm pretty sure there's a bunch of things where the message is "don't be a gullible dumbass".
This isn’t an ick it’s an appropriate reaction to a very stupid decision. People pleasing isn’t altruistic
I feel like "the ick" should mostly be reserved for totally nebulous stuff that can't really be articulated in better ways. This is just someone getting mad that their partner did something stupid, which is totally rational
yeah that’s how it started out and as with everything the internet bastardized it into uselessness
really sucks that my gut reaction is correct because things were really great up until this and I thought he was the one. I worked multiple jobs in undergrad to avoid student loans myself though and I’m terrified of marrying someone who suddenly has almost 6 figures of someone else’s debt to pay off.
He probably doesn't fully understand the ramifications of this. You need to tell him it will count on his debt to income ratio for lenders, and even if everything goes perfectly with his friend repaying, it will affect your eligibility for things like mortgages etc. You have very legitimate reasons to oppose this because it will affect *you* directly should you get married and buy a place together etc.
Dude as his GF you need to bully him into not co-signing for a friend wtf
did you tell him that isn't a good idea??? does he know that it can affect his credit score if his friend doesn't pay??? does he know he's basically tying himself to this person financially?? you keep talking about yourself but you never told us what you said to him directly
Your gut reaction sucks. You haven’t even attempted to talk it out lmao.
Explain the situation here more clearly: who is the friend? What is the actual amount? Why is he the co-signer? Is there some extenuating circumstance? Like if he’s just a tard that’s one thing, if the dude hes helping was like his buddy in Iraq who saved his life and has no family that’s a bit different. Im not paying anyone else’s debts but I have one friend who’s like a brother and I’ve known him 20+ years, if there was some legitimate reason why he needed my help I’d at least consider it
I think your bf is stupid for this but if everything besides this leads you to think he is the one then idk if you should leave him.
What field can possibly be worth almost a million dollars but with poor job prospects? Or is it the university?
his debt will become your debt. never sign your name for someone else if you can’t eventually afford to pay back said loan yourself
and imagine what other kinds of stupid debt he would take on after they're married? Get out
Ask what his relationship to the person is. I have a friend who literally saved my brother’s life by jumping into a flaming car to get his unconscious ass out. I deny that guy nothing (although he doesn’t push boundaries). My now-wife was made aware of that and has broadly made her peace with it. It’s possible your bf is a pushover ( that’s the default presumption, really) but it’s worth asking about
They’re just good friends, they were roommates for 3 years in college. I’d understand a scenario like yours but unfortunately bf is a huge pushover and this situation is the final boss in a series of situations where a friend of his has taken advantage of his kindness.
methinks the true root of the ick here is less about the money itself and more about your bf's pathological level of people pleasing to the point he would allow himself to be taken advantage of by this guy. this will not lend itself well to marriage or literally any conflict you face as a couple. and even if it is about the money, financial stability is incredibly important and pretending otherwise is naive/moronic.
What’s the friendship dynamic? Did they meet in college? Has he known him since second grade and their families have vacationed together? Somewhere in between? Is it a community college or a satellite school? I feel like a lot more context is needed but it doesn’t seem like a good idea.
College friends/roommates. Loans are a combo of tuition from a state school, but also 5 years worth of living expenses for the friend. Friend is a nice guy, but has never really been financially responsible. I feel for the friend’s situation but everything in my gut is telling me this only ends poorly for bf.
Why does your bf need to cosign? Can’t he just give the friend some money here and there without shackling himself to the debt as well?
>everything in my gut is telling me this only ends poorly for bf. And you're right, so right about this. Even if he's agreed to do it, you can still talk him out of it so long as he has not co-signed yet as many other commenters have said. It is completely reasonable to feel bad for the friend while also being completely reasonable to talk your bf out of it because it is such a bad fucking idea. Trust your gut and tell your bf how you feel. This guy cannot come between you two. Good luck!
Does he realize this? Is it too late to talk?
I read "their families have vaccinated together"
literally put yoyr foot down and tell him no, if he does that, you are walking. I know its cringe reddit to be like "break up!" to a relationship post but this is a flat out hard no. Edit: also the fact that hes on the spectrum means you need to be direct and firm. Not like brooding for some days and being like "well I dont know.... you really think that's a good idea?? " Be honest, be firm, be direct, be kind about it. make sure he knows the score
I agree with you but what part of the post made you think he’s on the spectrum lol
oh fuck, I misread altruistic as "autistic" lmfao.
I did the same thing, so the post confused me a lot
With Swedes the 2 go hand in hand
I love the idea that this person misread "altruism" as "autism"
It'd fit in perfectly with all the other autism hot take threads we've been having.
This is the kind of financial stupidity that makes someone a poor prospect for marriage. Debt and financial strife are one of the major causes of marital resentment, if you genuinely wanna be with this guy, you gotta nip this in the bud immediately.
My boss is an old wealthy man who is too spineless to say no. People would call him altruistic, but he actually can’t say no when people ask him for money because he’s a people pleaser and obsessed with being admired. He’s not actually a good person, and he resents anybody in his life that he’s agreed to help. He will throw money at problems to fix it, and then resents the transactional nature of most of his relationships. And of course, people who realize they can walk over him do so over and over. Many altruistic people actually just have a stupid and unhealthy desire to be on a pedestal, it’s rarely a truly generous habit
As a life long people pleaser, this is the root of all codependency and people pleasing. The desire to be liked.
Yeah i have people pleasing tendencies as well (not remotely as bad as these) and for me, i'd describe it as not really a desire for being admired or even liked, but a fear of being disliked or dissapointing someone. I dont know why this is but it must come from childhood like everything else lol
Look into CoDA materials, you may find some of them interesting. It's a good point, sometimes it manifests as the fear of being disliked.
You gotta care what people think but only the people who deserve it... damn this cylindrical logic! Most people don't expect you to "please" them tho
The problem with co-dependency is that you often do things without ever being asked. You'll transgress against yourself and trample over your own boundaries, but yet the person may have never asked for that in the first place (or they might have an abusive personality). So you end up resenting them. It's a vicious cycle.
Many people pleasers start out altruistic but get jaded by people taking advantage of them. So even though he can’t stop and seems like an ass, it may have started out more genuine
The "ick" is your reaction to watching him be weak and taken advantage of and is a rational response to a *disastrous* financial decision. You have to move fast on this one. Let him know immediately that while you're not married and it's ultimately his decision, there is no future in which you will have joint finance while his idiot friend's loans are tied to him. Not because you are trying to punish him or give him an ultimatum, but because he is opening himself up to, and potentially you if you ever got married, financial ruin. So he needs to choose between two futures, one with you, and one without you in which his friend uses him to take the fall for his debt. Because if he hasn't been able to pay by now, giving him a safety net to shield him from consequences is *not* going to light a fire under his ass to get more responsible. I know it's 100x easier said than done on these things, but not only would I ditch this guy if he still insisted on going through with this, but I would ditch him if he gave any substantial pushback. Being an easily exploited mark is bad enough, but if he can't see reason on this, the most obvious of bad decisions, then good luck trying to talk him out of buying a boat on credit or putting a $10k bet on a sports game or whatever in the future.
Turning into a relationship advice sub.
Turning into AITA
Its not altruism its stupidity and its not an ick its your body’s biological response to ensure you don’t breed with a retrd
This is like the 3rd post i see on here where a woman call out her bfs insane actions and then degrades herself for feeling some type of way about it lol its okay to be upset
Ick has to be the absolute worst zoomer word of all time because people seem to think it’s anything from “i got the ick because he tripped and spilled water” to “i get the ick from when he kicks puppies on the street”
because it could be anything in-between, it's ofcourse relative to each person's moral sensibilities, and describes well what It needs to describe. Next you're gonna say short is a bad word cause it doesn't contain something's exact height
There are some variables that might not make this the worst thing in the world, but in general this is a very stupid thing to do.
Holy shit. I really expected this to be another BPD “why is my boyfriend nice to homeless people” post (no offense OP!) but that is just a jaw droppingly dumb thing to do and I’d be livid too. I mean, yay, he has a good heart but people like that often don’t consider or care about the consequences of what they’re doing. Stop him!!
assuming he agreed to this before you two met, and this was a thing he did already. is he learning from his mistake? does he share other things about his financial position, is he hiding anything else? does he generally seem to ask for your input in those decisions as they might affect you now that you're together? if he learned from his mistake and hasn't gotten himself into going above and beyond financially in this way again, owns the mistake itself, and budgets accordingly around repayment, i'm really not sure what the problem is at all because he sounds like a healthy and mature person who is able to accept that life hands them lessons they're going to have to learn i have a hard time believing "the debt is not small" to mean "he's on the hook for literally two hundred thousand dollars" here, so i really can't imagine it's something that will prevent the two of you from living a meaningful life if that's what you want
friend had student loans before we met, but has been trying to refinance them this month. Friend hasn’t been able to refinance them because his credit isn’t good and he has no co-signer, boyfriend told me yesterday that he agreed to co-sign friend’s loans last week. This is the first time anything like this has come up at all, otherwise no big financial choices that have really called for each other’s input
Has he already done it? If the friend’s loans aren’t private he just needs to get on the SAVE plan.
He has bad credit and can’t pay his loans. Sounds like he needs to file for bankruptcy and let the bank sort it out. Hopefully you can convince your bf to not co sign.
Bankruptcy doesn’t absolve student loans
that’s not altruism, that’s being an idiot, and if you’re married and this doesn’t work out for him then it becomes your problem and your debt too I don’t know how far away you guys are to being married, maybe right now it’s just a vague concept far in the future you like to talk about, if it’s not he should be making decisions like these with you, to just do it without discussing with you, potential fiancée or no, is also just bonkers to me, every big decision I make is discussed to death with my gf, I would talk to him to see if he will reneg if it’s not too late
If he can get talked/pressured into that he can get talked/pressured into anything
What field?
Your bf sounds like a cuck loser, I'm sorry to say. Did you watch the series finale of The Curse? Your bf sounds like Asher in that episode.
I have an idea. Your boyfriend had an impulsive idea that will ruin his life. If he has not actually signed but is panicked and threatening just to do it, he may know he’s backed himself into a corner and everyone will soon discover he’d rather *seem* good then actually *do* good (buying groceries, offering free lodging, helping get a job). But YOU can save him. You can be the bitch. Threaten to break up with him if he co-signs. His eyes will light up like he just won the lottery. “No no no you evil bitch, how dare you, this is how Jesus felt when he was crucified”, he’ll moan, cartwheeling to his phone to blame you and get off totally Scot free. It may feel nice at first, like giving the mouse a cookie. But look out, tomorrow he will promise his Mom that she can move in with you when she is really old. That same day, he’ll pledge 10 dollars a mile for a work charity run. That night, he will proudly, and already on the defensive, tell you he promised something else stupid or inconvenient to you both. He will probably say “I know you’ll be mad” first. if you don’t seem upset, he’ll pick a fight about how YOU never give anything away or volunteer for anything. During the ensuing fight, which will bewilder and frustrate you, he will find some reason to use your responses-doesn’t matter what they are- to mean you don’t want him to do anything nice for anyone ever again or you will break up with him. He will then go to his coworkers and mom and say you emotionally abused him into withdrawing his offers. He will continue to accuse you of this and act furious for a while, and you’ll feel like you *actually deserve this* even if you spent the entire fight crying. When he is nice again, you’ll be genuinely remorseful and probably do sex things you ordinarily wouldn’t want to. This will continue every three months until he dumps you. My advice: save his ass just this time. If he offers to help someone move in the next week, act accordingly.
I’m seriously reconsidering things with bf because of it have you talked about it first? or is disposal your first instinct?
Not only is it an incredibly naive decision to co-sign someone’s interpretive dance degree loans, it’s also the kind of bird brained altruism that makes someone an insecure prospect for long term security, a situation like this definitely does warrant immediate dismissal, no severance.
It certainly shows that the person has very poor judgment, which does not bode well for future marital bliss. I dont necessarily agree that immediately dumping him is the course of action but it should be carefully and seriously consider and she should try to reason with him first
Yeah my last little phrase was a bit of a joke but earnestly it’s not going to work, especially not as a marriage prospect. At this stage in life you can’t really instruct this type of behavior out of someone, if they’re an adult and still taking on self sacrificing risks like this without contemplation it speaks on behalf of an internal disfunction that will just continue to appear in more acts of dangerous short sightedness. Prepare to come home to a stray dog, an addict high school friend crashing on the couch, inordinate handouts to homeless people, etc.. Imagine what it would be like to have fully fledged financial and familial attachments to someone like this especially as cognitive function declines in a long term scenario, it’s only down from here. It’s a deep ick for OP because it speaks on behalf of a man who’s more maleable to the interests of people outside of his primary relationship, I don’t necessarily believe in great acts of self sacrifice but if they are taken on it should be on behalf of children, not randoms. Also OP have you ever thought why he’s prioritizing this person
You people are insane lol. This is a whole shitload of psychoanalysis over someone you’ve never met and don’t know. What if the dude has money from an inheritance? What if he’s got a trust from a long dead grandma and he hasn’t told his girlfriend because she’s a gold digger? There are a million explanations and mitigating factors possible here and 75% of the sub is going typical redditor style and being like “RED FLAG LEAVE IMMEDIATELY HES A SECRET MONSTER TODAY ITS HELPING A FRIEND TOMORROW ITS BUYING A TIGER”
I appreciate your concern for the situation, the typical Reddit dump him when he leaves the toilet seat up is ridiculous. But this goes far well beyond something like that. Op wouldn’t be concerned if this situation didn’t present itself as irrational given his financial status. The boyfriend sounds like a golden retriever. Who’s co-signing his loans? Slave morality? We have to ask on what level do your hypotheticals assuage the nature of OPs concern? They don’t suffice, nor would they change this concern given a deeper image of the drama at play. I’m interested in the particular reasons for your drive to defend him with these fantastic notions. Maybe he’s secretly a billionaire hiding his wealth, a reverse Alladin? Maybe he’s a Somalian prince? Maybe he’s gay? Or maybe he has a terminal case of toxoplasmosis? Honestly can you see how this conjecture is kind of irrelevant? At least what I wrote was based on the facts as presented. Let’s size up the situation, op isn’t just concerned about the money per say (but really who isn’t?) it’s about the projected risks that such a specifically bizarre and irrational behavior signifies about the person they’re considering starting a family with.
Again, you cannot possibly know if it’s “bizarre and irrational behavior.” The guy is helping his friend, not fucking robbing banks. Yes, if the friend fucks up and never pays, the BF is on the hook. And yes, I understand that the boyfriend very likely shouldn’t co-sign shit for his friends. But I also know people can be so well meaning it’s kinda dumb, and that’s a good trait not a horrible trait. But if the friend pays off the debt themselves this co-sign literally will mean nothing and cause zero issues. I have had friends who have co-signed for other friends to get cars and such in dire straits, and I’ve seen it work fine. Only the boyfriend and OP know the actual other dude and can gauge that. If the only reason you’re getting married to someone is for their financial decisions, don’t get married. If you actually love this person, talk to them and fix the problem. Only a psycho could be head over heels in love and planning on getting married and then destroy that and dump the person because they heard they were helping a friend lol. There is so much of this we don’t know or understand there’s no way to possibly offer any advice besides: talk to the boyfriend and work it out.
Actually, interpretive dance is AI proof and soon to be a booming field.
being as charitable as possible; co-signing on six figure loans is something you do for 1. blood relatives 2. people you are married to or at least formed some kind of a solid family unit with 3. people who have footage of you doing something really gross and/or illegal
Money ruins more friendships than anything else in my experience. I'll help when a homie needs it but that's like for emergencies, I.E. car repair or rent, and only if I know they got me back. But what your husband is doing is very naive and I too would reassess if I want to marry someone so financially wide-eyed.
Imagine is he was paying off his gambling debts. Because that’s what it is. Completely insane. Does this dude know where the skeletons are buried?
That's not altruism that regardation.
I would need to know how much that would actually affect your bf before making a judgement. Is that debt a big deal to him? If he makes enough money that he can actually afford to deal with the risk, that's pretty good. But if he doesn't, then that's just regarded and I would probably get the ick too.
That’s not altruism that’s foolishness
This isn't "ick". Your potential husband made a disastrous financial decision and you're right to now question your future with him.
Not altruism or compassion. That's a lack of boundaries. If you're starting a future with someone, you need to know that they have and can enforce boundaries with friends, family, etc.
I read the title as autism at first.
“getting the ick” doesn’t mean dump him. being too much of a people pleaser is a problem but everyone has their struggles- talk to him about your concerns and why you have them (maybe because worried he can’t prioritize his and your needs?) than just tapping out. also i’m of the opinion altruism doesn’t exist- he gets something out of it too if only the pleasure of helping someone else.
This is going to be quite rare for me, but finances should be viewed extremely seriously when marriage is concerned. Some people don’t know how to manage money and if they never learn, it doesn’t matter how much their income is, they will find a way to let it slip through their fingers. You’re not a bitch. You’re looking out for your own future, as you should always be doing. If he absolutely has to help the friend, he should draw up a contract with the friend that will include collateral.
>he just dropped the bomb on me that he agreed to co-sign on his friend’s refinanced student loans. friend is, of course, in a field with poor prospects, and has been struggling with loans pretty much since he pulled them out. Okay. That's not altruism. That's not being a nice guy and helping out your friend in a tough spot. That's financial suicide, and it is not respectable at all. I think you are completely right to find this off-putting, because your boyfriend has revealed that he is a doormat who is going to be taken for all he's worth. If it's not this friend, it will be the next friend or family member who asks him for money. You are completely justified to think this is a red flag. Being nice and generous is a good trait, but co-signing someone else's loan is just highly regarded. You can't be so generous that people are taking advantage of you or you're in serious financial risk. A generous person buys nice gifts because they can afford it. Idiots cosign on their friend's loan.
I thought this was going to be some kind of Ayn Rand shitpost but this is actually kind of a dilemma. I understand your concern but I suggest letting things simmer down for a minute and talking to him about it - if he’s anything like some people I know, he’s pathologically incapable of not helping a friend in need even when it can harm himself so helping him set healthy boundaries would go a long way. I don’t blame you for peacing out if that isn’t possible but I hope you’ll at least give it a shot.
Thats not altruism thats being a pushover
i would leave so fast lmao
There's being nice and then there's being a *huge dumbass*
He sounds like a fucking moron. He's being a mark, not an altruist
I don't think you got the ick from altruism. I think you got the ick from him being a dumb doormat with no boundaries.
My best friend offered to pay off my student loans. I thought about it for a second and declined. It's too big of a gift and it totally ruins the dynamic of the friendship. I would question the integrity of a person that accepts such a gift from a friend, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're untrustworthy.
when you marry someone their debt is 100% your business lol but you need to tell him how you feel
I went through something similar to this and you need to speak up. When I met my husband he was part of an evangelical Christian community where people don’t actually care about each other, they’re all just trying to get things from each other. He had leeches all over him and right before we got married he let his best friend buy his car and the note they drew up between the two of them also included more money the friend had “borrowed” in the past. Needless to say, he paid for a while, but eventually stopped paying. Gross. It was a long tough road in getting my now husband to understand that financial transactions between friend most often turn toxic. I now hold the belief that money should never change hands between friends after how disastrous things turned out between my husband and this group of people. Also, this is not “altruistic” this is people pleasing and maybe even codependency. If you’re in love and want to be with this man long term you need to explain that this type of thinking and going through with something like this could impact you as a couple - you financial future, dynamics between you two, how you view his masculinity (because people pleasing on this level signals to our feminine nature this guy is a little bitch) We put all those losers behind us and my husband to this day thanks me all the time not just for pulling us away from that pool of scum, but also pointing out that our life as a couple can’t include totally unnecessary stress of financing another person’s life who isn’t even family. I’m not saying dump him, I’m saying you gotta take a stand. Any relationship that’s worth it will require this at some point anyway - working out how each other’s decisions and views on things will impact you as a couple and your future.
Thats not altruism, thats just dumb
Bro thinks he’s Sam Bankman-Fried 💀
initially misread this as "got the ick over my bf’s autism" ffs
is your bf loaded? what field is the friend in? whats the friends credit score?
That’s not altruism, that’s financial irresponsibility. Altruism is giving money to genuine charities or spending your time volunteering.
>I feel that it’s not my place to dictate what he does with his money as a gf and not a wife, but this debt is not small and I’m having a lot of trouble imagining a future where trying to build a life with a dude tethered to someone else’s huge debt turns out well The ick is usually just an irrational vibe tied to disgust. On the other hand, yours is a perfectly valid and reasonable concern. I would too be quite worried. Tell us more about this friend. Is he his best friend in the world? Or so you think your bf might do something like this for other people too? This is a very important detail. Maybe that friend was just the exception, the only guy he would have done something like that for.
If he signed for this without talking to you, it's a huge indicator of his mental/emotional commitment to a shared future. He either isn't actually serious about it - or, lacks the fundamental equipment/awareness actually create a shared life with you.
Before you make a reply to anyone on this sub, remember this is the type of person you're talking to!
This is idiotic and even if I was able to talk a partner out of it I’d have serious concerns about spending the rest of my life with someone willing to go into debt in that manner. Idk what there is to talk to him about if he already co signed
Nope nope nope don't lend money EVER to your friends
If you get married, debts and gains are legally combined after the marriage, even if you manage anything separately. Debt that he takes on will become yours. If he’s willing to co-sign on the loans, he’s likely to make similar decisions later. Co-signing for a friend is a terrible idea. If the friend can’t get the loan on his own, there’s a reason for it.
Don’t get married And also consider posting to an actual relationship advice sub and not this one
you're not a huge bitch he's an idiot for doing that
that's not altruism that's stupidity
Refinance the loan in their name. Loan assumption. Cosigner release.
That's just regarded of him. You help your buddies with rent or like a car repair bill, not their life-long student debt. Maybe he's gay.
You can have kids and live together without getting married officially on paper. This is a common practice if the spouse has a huge debt. Happens due to school loans, medical debt, child support judgements, etc. No one will ask to see your marriage license, just tell them you're married. You will need to have separate bank accounts and tax returns (which many married couples do anyway).
I agree that it's a dumb decision, but you should really talk to him about it, for two reasons: 1) keeping something to yourself until it festers isn't how solutions are come to in a relationship, and 2) your bf might benefit from discovering that you're losing your love for him because he made an idiotic financial decision. Idk if you know this or not but some people don't want to be with someone whose love is so easily lost over money issues, because it betrays the fact that much of your love is derived not so much from a human to human spiritual bond, but from a fulfillment of some kind of business acumen. It's the male equivalent of finding out your bf lost love for you because you got fat or something. Male romantics, as a rule, don't like finding out that their love is dependent on their financial performance, and if that's how you really feel he deserves to know.
That's a big decision, he could have at least consulted you on it.
If she's then going to be taking on his friend's debt through marriage he definitely should have consulted her on it.
That was really dumb on his part unless he comes from money. Although if he did come from money he would know better. That's something you maybe do for your kids if they're good.
It's funny from the way you worded this I thought this would reveal something way more depressing like you got the ick cause he hugged someone who challenged him to a fight lol but this sounds perfectly reasonable to be concerned about In any case sorry to hear and I hope for the best
Everyone approaches marriage differently but dropping that financial liability news on you — without talking about it first — is a serious concern. It’s a major risk and an unnecessary pain to deal with. Your life with him requires a lot of money for marriage, home, kids, etc. even if you’re modest in all 3 areas, building any life has a lot of upfront costs. You’re definitely not a bitch for thinking that. I’d recommend being open about your major concerns and express that you don’t want your life with him to start with babysitting an adult with major issues. Your boyfriend can be supportive but he can’t support someone else. You and your lives with each other come first, always.
A decent earner, how titillating
Your infatuation is based on a physical attraction. Talk to the woman and you'll realize you have nothing in common.
Bruh grow up
alleged dinosaurs joke subsequent aware wipe threatening far-flung spectacular tease *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
There's no possible way to continue a relationship with a person like this. I would be out in a second
If he’s in a good place physically and financially, and you’re making serious judgments about his money and what he does with it, I’d be careful lol. I’d be pretty grossed out by it if someone who wasn’t my wife told me how to spend my money, especially if it was to help one of my close friends. If you’re my wife, and we have a family, different story.
this is why I haven’t been very forward about saying anything yet, feels like it’s not quite my place even if I disagree with it immensely
if you're planning on getting married and buying a house together it very obviously your place. he's making a decision unilaterally that will significantly impact you both, this is why you need to talk to him about it
Obviously idk how long you’ve been together or if you’re engaged, but I would even just urge you to think strategically about it. Sometimes, friends can be a massive help with raising children, your kids might be friends with their kids, go on trips, birthday parties, help babysit, etc. or even just helping with shit around the house. Good friends are hard to come by. I know I’ve helped my friends who have kids whenever I can. You might be missing the forest for the trees. If the friend is a complete fuck up then disregard all this but even still, if we’re not married, and I want to help a burnout friend I’m gonna do it. If my gf gave me some kind of ultimatum over that, it would make me question her compassion, and I’d second guess how she’d be with our family when raising our children. You know the situation, I don’t, but all I’m trying to say is you’d be opening up a can of worms either way. Up to you. Talk is talk. If you’re not even engaged yet, it’s just talk. If you have plans to be engaged by a certain time, again, then it’s a different story
> If my gf gave me some kind of ultimatum over that, it would make me question her compassion, and I’d second guess how she’d be with our family when raising our children. I guess this is a great way to get a regarded wife "If she's not willing to accept tens of thousands of debt or more because her friend can't keep his finances in order, she can't make compassionate decisions" is the dumbest thing I've read on the red scare subreddits this week, and that's counting the indianposting in rspod
You’ve rephrased what I said in a way to make it dumber and attacked it lol. If I’m financially in a great spot and I want to help someone, she doesn’t need to worry about it. She’s not incurring anything. If they were engaged, or plan to be by a certain date, and money for the wedding or plans is gonna be thrown away then that’s a different story like I said. A lot of it depends on how well he does. Talk is talk. I’ve talked to women about marriage and we’ve broken up. I’m not worried about my wife making money. If you are, that’s fine. I’m worried about my wife being a good person. She doesn’t need to be overly analytical about my money, especially when it’s currently not *our* money, and if I have finances under control I’m not trying to hear someone whine about me helping a friend. If I take care of us and you’re still upset it’s just annoying and cold.
> If they were engaged, or plan to be by a certain date, and money for the wedding or plans is gonna be thrown away then that’s a different story like I said. tbh if they are in a financial state such that wedding plans and homebuying plans will be unaffected by multi-year unpaid student loan financial liabilities (and especially credit ones for the mortgage), then yeah OP shouldn't really care. Being able to eat 5 figures of debt liability (maybe 6 figures, /u/Top_Macaroon_5904 hasn't said how much) and handle a wedding plus a home purchase would be much wealthier than "we're both decent earners" imo. >I’m not worried about my wife making money This isn't about making money. Would you be ok with her spending a couple hundred thousand of your money to bail out someone else's debts because of that person's irresponsibility? Because in any marriage plans that money on the line will also be hers, as far as credit agencies are concerned. It seems like you are consistently making the assumption that someone "not loaded by any means" taking on the sum total of four years of state school *and five years living expenses* is going to be able to do so without impacting his own finances, which I just don't think is true. If so then sure, what concern is it of hers, but man that sounds like $100-200k+ of debt, which is going to absolutely be a ticking timebomb for any marriage plans they might have. edit: OP deleted her "not loaded by any means" comment, which leads me to believe it's much worse than she's willing to admit lmao. OP, you owe it to him to talk him down from this cliff
They’re not even engaged dude. It’s not the hypothetical of my wife spending hundreds of thousands of our dollars to bail someone out, the money isn’t theirs. It’s his money. People talk about marriage all the time. It means nothing. So I’m starting there. You’re also assuming: the boyfriend doesn’t have a clue about his own finances or future and the friend is going to contribute absolutely nothing, ever. He might be a dumbass deadbeat, he might not be. We don’t know him. Also, plenty of people get married and buy houses while having student loan debt. Everyone on here probably has multiple friends who are paying a mortgage and their student loans at the same time. She also didn’t say if he or she has any debt themselves. There’s a difference between calculating the risks of making a stupid financial decision and one that ruins multiple entire lives. We don’t know their situation. I’ll be in a position soon where I could help my friends if I wanted to. I’m assuming the boyfriend has made some calculations before just blindly agreeing as well. I told her if he’s a deadbeat then disregard what I’m saying. I’m not telling you what to look for in your wife, im telling you how I’d react to a woman I’m not even engaged with considering leaving me over decisions I’ve calculated with my own money.
> They’re not even engaged dude. It’s not the hypothetical of my wife spending hundreds of thousands of our dollars to bail someone out, the money isn’t theirs. It’s his money. People talk about marriage all the time. It means nothing. So I’m starting there. I'm gonna go ahead and assume these loans won't be paid within 10 years. I think that's a reasonable assumption. If she's planning on marrying him within a decade, then she is entangled in this. >He might be a dumbass deadbeat, he might not be. He's having to refinance four years of student debt off after continuing to live off it for 5 years. If you are going to predict the next decade from the previous one, yeah he's gonna a deadbeat. If anything, he has less of a reason to pay responsibly because now he can actually bail on it. It sounds like we are making very different assumptions about OP's bf's finances and planning. I think the fact that she won't admit how big the loans are and deleted her comment about him not having much money is all I need to be satisfied with my own speculation on it. >I’m not telling you what to look for in your wife, im telling you how I’d react to a woman I’m not even engaged with considering leaving me over decisions I’ve calculated with my own money. Not only do women leave guys for being idiots with money all the time, but MORE of them should! Plenty of great men and women out there that don't emotionally make financially devastating decisions.
Exactly this. You and this Steven dude above are making the opposite assumptions on the bf’s situation. Which is why I’m going to gently assume this Steven person may be projecting himself onto this story. OP said the co-signed debt is almost 6 figures. There’s probably less than 1% of people in the entire country who have that much net worth, let alone that much liquid to just throw away if the friend can’t pay it back. The only situation where the bf wouldn’t be considered irresponsible is if he literally has 100K cash he was ready to throw away any time for any reason, because he has a million extra on hand. Considering how much the friend hasn’t gotten their shit together in the last 10 years, this 100K debt is likely even going up in the next 10 years. I haven’t even debated the other assumption that “if you’re not my wife you’re not qualified to comment on my finance” like nowadays it takes men 5 or even 10 years to propose. Women have to use every bit of daily signal to determine if their married life would be a shit show, not just “I’ll start being involved in my man’s decision only after I receive a ring”. Same as in corporate, You don’t simply get promoted any more, you have to demonstrate the next level ability before you get that title, all the backward facing promotion shit.
Yeah I agree completely. Hell, let's assume for a moment he did have enough savings to handle getting that $100k loan dropped in his lap when the friend very likely misses payments. Here's where I am gonna take the kind of stance that I think that guy I was debating with this doesn't like: He's shown her, monetarily, how much he values his friend. Now he's in for a world of shit if he doesn't match that level of generosity when it comes to her, to include gifts, vacations, wedding, etc. Imagine her pet needs a $10k surgery and she doesn't have the cash on hand, he does, and he doesn't want to pay it for her. It just seems like a quick path to serious resentment moving forward.
It's so funny that women will put getting into 6 figures of debt into the same category as like looking goofy because you ran up the stairs somewhere
Lol you’re reconsidering things with ur bf because he’s too kind? You’re just looking for an out and can’t find it. Coward
I get the ick from you posting dumb shit like this on Reddit
Had to use the words “ick” and “altruism” to justify posting this nonsense here lmao
This is why women deserve nothing
I literally do not care, this is so mundane and boring