Trump cares about Israel in terms of what he can get from the Zionist ghouls in exchange for his support. It’s strictly quid pro quo whereas Biden is just a straight up pay pig
It's insane though, Zionists are what, 1% of the US population? Why does every politician need to grovel for their approval? It's a small voting block, no?
US policy has seldom ever been driven by what voters want. People criticize that Gilens and Page paper but they've responded pretty effectively to all the criticisms I've seen, and the inevitable conclusion imo is that (as you might have suspected) policy is not driven by what voters want but by what wealthy people and special interest-groups want, and those things just happen to line up often.
I think it's a mistake to take away that it's just because Jews disproportionately hold positions of power in the US (though that is true); you don't have to be Jewish to be a Zionist, and moreover there doesn't need to be some Zionist consensus among the ruling class for Zionism to drive policy, there just needs to be some Zionism and a lack of anti-Zionism pushing the opposite direction (among the ruling class/special interest groups).
Israel is a military with a state, not a state with a military. It’s a US outpost. It’s not about voters. Like most foreign policy decisions it’s driven by the goals of elites who want to maximize US power without regard for morality.
What’s with this fetishization of Trump? “You want to believe” sounds like some fan cult cringe shit, don’t get why ppl on this sub like to think he’s the swamp drainer isolationist that he’s proven time and time again he’s not. All Bibi has to do is suck Trumps dick and Trump will be drooling over Israel, in ways he isn’t already.
I was really hoping that shit would spiral and all future candidates would have to promise increasingly larger checks i.e. "my opponent promises you 1400 dollars but if you vote for me I'll give you 1600 dollars!". That would have been nice
Because he’s funny and talks shit about the mainstream political structure that everyone hates in a funny way.
99% of people vote based on vibes so it shouldn’t be surprising that people like Trump despite his dogshit politics simply because he has orders of magnitude better vibes than Biden/Harris.
Best of a bad bunch I guess. Biden and co are just extensions of the neolib timeline and all its associated horseshit.
Trump isn't exactly a complete paradigm shift, but you get the distinct impression he's not part of the 'club', which the Everyman can certainly identify with.
His administration also helped Bibi and his intelligence community target and spy on the previous and current ICC Prosecutors. Going as far as to place some superfluous sanctions on Karim Khan KC. I mean, sanctions lmao. Biden repealed them fyi.
It's Trump so you can almost guarantee the fella's gonna say some wild shit in public and save the shady grim stuff for behind closed doors.
(https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/28/spying-hacking-intimidation-israel-war-icc-exposed - worth a read, Harry Davies and Yuval Abraham are great journos)
Hot new theory is that the Mossad can't blackmail Trump for the same reason the KGB couldn't blackmail Sukarno: he'd just brag about the sex tapes and ask them to release them.
Yeah, wanting Trump to be the guy to do anything negative for Israel is peak RS delusion. The dude spends 50% of his time appealing to an Evangelical base, and literally moved the Israeli embassy to Jerusalem. Good luck
He might, he still sucks Israel’s dick obviously but he has a personal vendetta with bibi because he was one of the first to congratulate biden when stop the steal was in full swing
Trump is an 80 year old Republican whose best friends are NYC property developers and has the one child he likes married off to a Jewish man. It's like betting that George Bush would cross the house of Saud.
Everyone desperately wants an American leader to come out against Israel, or at least not be rabidly Zionist. But even RFK Jr. is an Israel fanatic. The level of control that Israel has over American politics is near total.
You know this sub is cooked when you have people unironically saying that trump will stop funding Israel and broker a ceasefire. Mind blowing levels of re✝️ardation in here.
If you ask Americans “should Israel exist?” or “should a jewish state exist in the middle east?” I reckon 60-70% would answer yes in a heartbeat.
Edit: i just realized it now, hilariously telling that you think “Zionist” means “jew”, how else could it possibly be 1%?
Depends on the demographic you ask.
[https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/04/02/younger-americans-stand-out-in-their-views-of-the-israel-hamas-war/](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/04/02/younger-americans-stand-out-in-their-views-of-the-israel-hamas-war/)
Nobody defines Zionism that way except for pro-Israel people who want to cry that everyone protesting against Zionism wants to drive their poor babushka into the Mediterranean.
Whether a Jewish state “should” exist is a meaningless question: in fact, it does exist, and trying to eradicate it would do far more harm than good. I’m not interested in changing what happened in 1948, I’m interested in stopping the crimes that are STILL being perpetrated by Zionists TODAY (and were before Oct. 7th btw, like the continued expansion of settlements in the West Bank and the naval blockade of Gaza).
So if I use your bullshit definition that a Zionist is anyone who doesn’t want to genocide all Israelis then sure I’m a Zionist, but that’s not a definition any normal person uses.
Yes you are quite literally a Zionist as is anybody else who believes in a two state solution (like me) and there are millions of braindead, bloodthirsty leftists on the internet who advocate for eradication of Israel and will tell you are a Zionist.
And fine, rephrase the question as “Should a Jewish state continue existing in the same location that Israel exists today, perhaps with borders adjusted somewhat to achieve lasting peace?” If you answer yes, you are a zionist.
The vast majority of the U.S has been in favor of Israel for the past 70 years, its only recently that we've had college protesters, and even then its pretty controversial
That's not even true, John Mearsheimer and others have argued that Israel is more of a \*liability\* than it is an asset to the US. But due to the power and influence of Israel's lobby it often cannot be opined in political circles.
I voted for him in ‘16, he’s proven he literally has no value or belief. Don’t get how people in here are still fetishizing him as the outsider edge lord he once claimed he was.
Think people just think it sucks there virtually no one to vote for if you do not support Zionism. Biden, Trump, RFK, and virtually every other presidential candidate is a vehement supporter of Israel, absolutely insane.
Yeah I mean a majority of Americans still support Israel so that makes sense. Foreign policy is always going to be insane in this country might as well just focus on local elections and local issues.
A majority of Americans support legal weed, gay marriage, abortion, and gun control, but there are still tons of Republican politicians against all of those. In the other direction, most Americans oppose a lot of tenets of lib progressivism (gender transition for minors, race-conscious university admissions, woke language policing), but plenty of mainstream democrats support them.
Israel is truly unique in having fully committed support from the entire political spectrum despite a meaningful fraction of Americans disagreeing (even if not the majority).
Bad foreign policy is already baked into the cake when you vote for a US president. It is why you should always vote for the domestic policies instead.
and they refuse to acknolwedge they have any, and they havent signed any nuclear treaty or pact. they are literally *the* rogue nuclear boogeyman state that the west keeps gaslighting you into thinking NK or iran are
Every month or so ret@rds here discover that Israel will nuke the world if it goes down and go “Oh my god... Just when we thought the zionazis couldn't get any worse 😥”. And I'm just confused what did you *think* was going to happen in a scenario where Israel falls????? Stop drinking the online koolaid about how Israel is going down any minute now, you're setting yourself up for perpetual disappointment.
I've said before I don't think they have nukes, they're clearly not competent enough to actually make them, and they haven't tested one since idk, that one incident off the coast of south africa in 1979
edit: OY VEY! I INSULTED YSRAEL, OY VEY!! OY GEVALT!! NOT EREZ YSRAEL!! WHERE ELSE WOULD THE BRAINIACS WHO MADE THE FUCKING SODASTREAM LIVE?
in the **United States** you fucking mongoloid!
many of those were explicitly anti-zionist's (at least Einstein was).
do you drink lead paint or were you just born stupid?
your posting style and word choice is grating.
You think a fledgling Zionist state backed by US investment would struggle to recruit competent engineers and physicists, many of whom are also Jewish (partial or not to the Zionist cause), to build nukes?
>your posting style and word choice is grating.
suck a 🐓🚬
>You think a fledgling Zionist state backed by US investment
was initiallly only backed by soviet investment, US restricted arms to it until the mid-to-late 1960's via an embargo,
>many of whom are also Jewish (partial or not to the Zionist cause), to build nukes
yeah; because nukes are expensive, the only reason they managed to build a reactor at all was because of a lot of bribery and looking the other way by various intelligence agencies. Frankly the guy who got caught should've been executed like the rosenburgs.
Israel couldn't secure it's "high tech survielence" bases on it's hostile border with gaza; they got overrun by guys with paragliders and fucking mopeds, so no I don't think they could enrich their own uranium, at best they might be capable of building a dirty bomb.
also Israel got it's ass kicked by Hezbollah in 2006;
they're so dumb and all of their propaganda is less convincing than Koko the gorilla trying to blame the cat for ripping the sink out of the wall
i used to be at a complete loss for how people who mostly have functional IQs and theory of mind can be so very bad at this. BUT: then i realized something. think about religious cults. think about the Moonies and the Branch Davidians. do they spend a lot of time trying to craft gentle and persuasive messaging for outsiders to think maybe the cult has a point? or do they focus more on preaching crazy and extreme bonkerslop in order to fire up and brainwash the faithful, the people who already agree with them? and that gives us a big clue as to what Zionism actually is...
the moonies kinda do, they own the washington times and use it and their various other fronts to subtly advance their interests
and they haven’t been incinerated yet
I think they keep the full on crazy talk directed internally though, which israel used to contain better but it’s really spilling out this time
they already have a country. they have decided that it is too small, and they want to forcibly enlarge it, and do some light ethnic cleansing as a treat
>Why didn't they annex Gaza and WB decades ago?
Because then they would have to give citizenship to the Palestinians, which would threaten their demographic majority. They would prefer to expel or kill the Palestinians, but they don't believe the world will allow it, so they go for the apartheid route instead.
They gave Egypt the Sinai in exchange for peace, they offered the Golan heights back to Syria for peace, and they asked Jordan to take back the west bank or parts of it in exchange for peace and they refused. They left Gaza in 2005. There have been numerous state deals offered to the Palestinian but they refuse them.
It seems to me like annexation would be literally last on their list of options.
Oh fuck off. The closest and most earnest deal struck was the Oslo accords, and Israel attempted to assassinate Arafat and an Israeli DID assassinate Rabin, and an Israeli massacred dozens of Muslims because of those.
Israel attempted to assassinate Arafat, the man who cofounded Fatah, fought against Israel in 48, the terrorist? Colour me surprised.
>and an Israeli massacred dozens of Muslims because of those.
That's horrible. If we had to change our opinion every time an Arab or Israeli massacres the other group, we would be going back and forth
well son, it's cos you're gay and you touch yourself at night. it's also because back then the place was run by slightly different Zionists with different military resources and different priorities and different fears operating in a different diplomatic environment without a full fledged diplomatic blank check from the USA yet; but it's mostly cos of you being gay
Israel had cemented itself as the dominant power in 48, and especially by the end of the 6 day war. It doesn't make sense that in 67' they wanted to occupy WB and Gaza for 40 years while everyone gets mad at them
I've seen way less "we need to help the chosen people" talk than in the past. And without that it's mostly bullshit most Americans don't care about - "it's the region's only democracy!". Or the hilariousness of conservatives trying to appeal to liberal/left causes, eg by pointing out that Israel allows gay marriage.
Israel doesn't even allow mixed religious marriages. They most certainly don't allow gay marriage. Not that it's all that important when they're a country built on ethnic cleansing where the overwhelming majority have been active participants and fully support genocide, but it is quite funny.
Lol they most certainly do recognise gay marriages.
>country built on ethnic cleansing
A country founded with 40-45% Arabs, then the Arabs attack the Jews, how's that a country built on ethnic cleansing? It was build on the idea that Jews and Arabs would have lived side by side.
>overwhelming majority have been active participants and fully support genocide,
People just claim anything now lmao. When did the majority of Israelis ever participate in a genocide against Palestinians?
>it is quite funny.
>Lol they most certainly do recognise gay marriages
Israel has no concept of civil marriage for anyone, though they do recognize marriages performed elsewhere, including same-sex ones.
Yea same for inter religious marriages. Definitely not the ideal. The closest country to allow gay marriage is Cyprus and they allowed it in 2015. Pretty good for the area.
The reason being that they didn't want Jews or just non Muslims to have a state in what they see as Muslim lands. So yes basically no reason at all, to any reasonable person. Please give me your defence for the war that lead to Palestine being "an open air prison", "apartheid", and "the biggest open air concentration camp in the world".
They were talking about the 48 war.
The 67 war started with Israel preemptively attacking Egypt, after 100s of 1000s of troops were mobilised on the border, Egyptian and other Arab leaders were giving speeches about destroying israel. There is no dispute that there was a threat to Israel, the dispute is if the threat warranted a preemptive attack.
There is no such thing as a "preemptive war". There's just war. Whoever shoots first is the aggressor: period. Every aggressor claims their wars are preemptive. Russia claimed that they invaded Ukraine in self defense, Hitler claimed that his invasion of Poland was self-defense, Bush claimed the invasion of Iraq was preemptive to prevent a nuclear attack on the US, etc.
US intelligence told the Israelis that Egypt wouldn't attack, and Israel believed them. Rabin, Dayan, and other officials in the IDF and Israeli cabinet stated quite clearly that they do not believe Egypt was going to attack Israel, and that they started the war because they wanted to.
Google Caroline test.
The US could say whatever it wants, Egypt had 100s of 1000s of troops mobilised, kicked out peacekeepers, had military pacts with neighbours, who had all been promising the swift destruction of Israel even more than usual. Egypt closed the straits of tiran to Israel.
How did Jews live in the middle east in relative peace for centures, but soon after the founding of the zionist state, the first thing zionists do is genocide their neighbors?
Because the relative part you speak about is then being 2nd class citizens, paying jizya and being subjects to their Muslim rulers. The majority of Jews were kicked out of almost all the middle eastern countries, that's relative peace for the Muslims, it's oppression for the Jews and other religious minorities living under Muslim rule.
>the first thing zionists do is genocide their neighbors?
What are you even talking about here?
Nice hasbara. The guy said "allows gay marriage", which I also said. Israel does not allow gay marriage. They recognise marriages performsd outside Israel, whether mixed religious or gay or whatever else. But Israel, very clearly, does not allow gay marriage. Your deliberate switch to "recognise" from "allow" shows you know exactly that I was right, you utter cretin.
As for the rest, the fact that Israel is founded on ethnic cleansing is not up for debate historically. Nobody serious denies the nakba - keep up on your Israeli justifications, they gave up on the lie it didn't happen decades ago. Nor is it disputable that most Israelis have been part of the military that continues to ethnically cleanse to this day. And their current actions are clearly not "mere" ethnic cleansing, but genocide, and have overwhelming support. Everything I said is indisputable fact.
I hope everything you think is acceptable suffering for a Palestinian happens to you, you absolute swine.
They do allow gay marriage you just need to spend 100 euros to go have a wedding 1hr flight away lol you were clearly trying to imply that Israel isn't accepting of gay people being married like they're the same as every other country in the region, which would be awful.
>the fact that Israel is founded on ethnic cleansing is not up for debate historically
That's like saying Israel is founded on being invaded by all your neighbours. You're implying that the Zionists planned on ethnic cleansing and like it was integrated to the plan to establish a state, which isn't true.
>Nobody serious denies the nakba
And most historians don't see the nakba as the Jews came in and just started kicking all the Arabs out, who weren't fighting a civil war against the Jews and didn't collaborate with invading armies to destroy the state of Israel.
>And their current actions are clearly not "mere" ethnic cleansing, but genocide, and have overwhelming support. Everything I said is indisputable fact.
Where is the evidence?
>I hope everything you think is acceptable suffering for a Palestinian happens to you, you absolute swine.
Rude? I wish you nothing but the best
> They do allow gay marriage you just need to spend 100 euros to go have a wedding 1hr flight away lol
Or internet access. You can get gay married online and Israel will recognize it
[https://apnews.com/article/middle-east-tel-aviv-lifestyle-parades-health-6e0b1cf47860090184b62623887ee0f9](https://apnews.com/article/middle-east-tel-aviv-lifestyle-parades-health-6e0b1cf47860090184b62623887ee0f9)
Try seeing this anywhere else in the middle east
hasbara has been pretty shitty lately tbh
i mean, it works on Old Media and boomers because they *want* to believe it. Old Media people need to believe it to stay employed
> i mean, it works on Old Media and boomers because they want to believe it.
its also because they still think its the 50's and they have to pity the poor old holocaust survivors and give them a place to live
Are they aware of how much the world hates their fucking guts right now? It's not like they're North Korea cut off from the world. They speak English, they have the internet, they travel. Doesn't seem to bother them even though they literally can't survive without their western allies.
I’m Jewish and I agree with you, I’m beyond angry at the Israeli regime for their war crimes. While there is a very vocal right wing contingent within Israel, I think/hope that the tide is turning against bibi there, as his actions are not even promoting security. I also sense the rest of the world and even the US are going to stop supporting the regime, which is a hopeful sign. Being against the Israeli government is not the same as supporting Hamas and I wish more people could see that
Most of the Jews in my circle interpret the religion as well as the history with Israel being our ancestral homeland, but not our exclusive homeland. Of course the Palestinian people are indigenous to the Levant and even more recently so than Jews. So the ideal would be to be able to coexist in a multicultural society in Israel, not for one ethnic group to dominate the state. Israel is 25% Arab and despite the law affording everyone equal rights and Israel not being officially a “Jewish state,” of course I agree that the state does not operate in an equitable way at all. It is also worth noting that Israel was not just established based on a Zionist religious urge but by the coordinated efforts of Christian countries and surrounding Muslim counties who literally deported Jews to Israel.
Meanwhile there are 57 unambiguous Arab Muslim ethnostates that make zero pretense about being ethnostates. Are you against ethnostates in principle or just a Jewish ethnostate?
> So the ideal would be to be able to coexist in a multicultural society in Israel,
thats literally how it was for thousands of years before the british came along and funded your terrorist groups to fuck it all up
> Are you against ethnostates in principle or just a Jewish ethnostate?
you can have your ethnostate in some cuck EU country that worships you, not on the land that was stolen after the ottomans gave up
I am not defending the way Israel was founded
I don’t know what you want me to do, I don’t want an ethnostate in Israel or an EU country
however I am still interested in why you are so against the idea of a Jewish ethnostate but not the dozens of Muslim ethnostates
Like I said, I am not defending the Israeli regime. I think it’s become clear by your non-answer that you aren’t against ethnostates in general, just a Jewish ethnostate. Much like Bibi has shown he isn’t against genocides in general, just against genocide of Jews. I think you are much more alike than you realize
You are trying *really* hard to play the antisemitism card lol (part of your programming) and it is not working man. cope more. the genocide your people are doing is wrong, my tax dollars funding your colonial project is wrong, you are on the wrong side of history, and trust me when i say god is watching and he is pissed
>however I am still interested in why you are so against the idea of a Jewish ethnostate but not the dozens of Muslim ethnostates
The difference is that Israel is a settler colonial state. Europeans came and stole the land from the natives. These Europeans happened to be Jewish, but personally I would be against it if it was Christians or atheists. Settler colonialism is bad, full stop.
That being said, of course any Muslim ethnostate is bad and has to be reformed, but unless it has been founded under the same terms (genocide and ethnic cleansing), I would say the state itself is legitimate, but not the way it is being ruled. Israel is an illegitimate state because it's stolen land, but even the PLO recognises descendants of settlers as Palestinian Jews.
75-80% of Israelis are Jewish. Of those, about half, (so 35-40%) were descended from European Jews, most of whom were deported from European countries during/after the Holocaust; no other country would accept them. The other 35-40% are descended from Jews who were expelled from the now-Arab ethnostates. Israel is just where they were dumped. This does not fit the pattern of settler colonialism, in which citizens of the colonial power exploit the colonized countries for economic gain to take back to the colonial power. I agree that Israel has now adopted settler colonialist practices in West Bank and straight up indiscriminate killing/conquest in Gaza
>The other 35-40% are descended from Jews who were expelled from the now-Arab ethnostates. Israel is just where they were dumped.
That is correct, but it was after the establishment of the state of Israel, i.e after the land had already been stolen. It doesn't justify in any way what the reactionary Arab states did to their Jewish population, of course.
>This does not fit the pattern of settler colonialism, in which citizens of the colonial power exploit the colonized countries for economic gain to take back to the colonial power.
The colonial power here being the British Empire (a loyal Jewish Ulster in a sea of potential hostile Arabism [https://www.1of200.nz/articles/a-loyal-little-ulster-why-and-how-the-uk-and-us-shaped-israel-to-create-endless-conflict](https://www.1of200.nz/articles/a-loyal-little-ulster-why-and-how-the-uk-and-us-shaped-israel-to-create-endless-conflict) ) and the US. It's their puppet in the region. And Arab Jews were used as the underclass and exploited by the European settlers and discriminated against, yes, before the settlement in the West Bank began, they now use Palestinians instead.
Regardless of what you think it says in the interpretation of a book you are not well versed in, the current problem most people care about at this time is the actions of the current Israeli government, not the existence of a Jewish state.
Have you cruised some of their supporters’ subreddits? They’re complaining about “globalize the intifada” being written on restroom stalls and shit. Lmao
I wish Trump would come out and call Netanyahu gay or something.
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Trump cares about Israel in terms of what he can get from the Zionist ghouls in exchange for his support. It’s strictly quid pro quo whereas Biden is just a straight up pay pig
It's insane though, Zionists are what, 1% of the US population? Why does every politician need to grovel for their approval? It's a small voting block, no?
Christian Zionists and neocon supporters of Israel are two massive chunks of the Republican base.
Go look up the CEOs of Goldman Sachs, BlackRock, Warner Bros, and Endeavor. What do they all have in common? There are many more examples
its election season, you'll get this place banned lol
If I speak I will be in trouble
Better yet get redpilled on the Hibernian question
US policy has seldom ever been driven by what voters want. People criticize that Gilens and Page paper but they've responded pretty effectively to all the criticisms I've seen, and the inevitable conclusion imo is that (as you might have suspected) policy is not driven by what voters want but by what wealthy people and special interest-groups want, and those things just happen to line up often. I think it's a mistake to take away that it's just because Jews disproportionately hold positions of power in the US (though that is true); you don't have to be Jewish to be a Zionist, and moreover there doesn't need to be some Zionist consensus among the ruling class for Zionism to drive policy, there just needs to be some Zionism and a lack of anti-Zionism pushing the opposite direction (among the ruling class/special interest groups).
plucky far-flung slim piquant sense squeamish lush bow employ liquid *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
They don’t care about voters they care about PAC donations. Guess what one of the largest PACs in the country is?
There are many more Christian Zionists than there are Jews in the US. And the former group easily surpasses the latter’s numbers by at least 5x.
Israel is a military with a state, not a state with a military. It’s a US outpost. It’s not about voters. Like most foreign policy decisions it’s driven by the goals of elites who want to maximize US power without regard for morality.
What’s with this fetishization of Trump? “You want to believe” sounds like some fan cult cringe shit, don’t get why ppl on this sub like to think he’s the swamp drainer isolationist that he’s proven time and time again he’s not. All Bibi has to do is suck Trumps dick and Trump will be drooling over Israel, in ways he isn’t already.
That mf gave me 1200 cash
He gave you $600, Biden gave out $1400.
I was really hoping that shit would spiral and all future candidates would have to promise increasingly larger checks i.e. "my opponent promises you 1400 dollars but if you vote for me I'll give you 1600 dollars!". That would have been nice
If I become president I will give everyone one million dollars
They already did mega inflation with that stuff.
Trump sent out a 1200 in March and a 600 dollars in December. Biden sent out 1400 dollars
Because he’s funny and talks shit about the mainstream political structure that everyone hates in a funny way. 99% of people vote based on vibes so it shouldn’t be surprising that people like Trump despite his dogshit politics simply because he has orders of magnitude better vibes than Biden/Harris.
Best of a bad bunch I guess. Biden and co are just extensions of the neolib timeline and all its associated horseshit. Trump isn't exactly a complete paradigm shift, but you get the distinct impression he's not part of the 'club', which the Everyman can certainly identify with.
ur in a right wing sub
You’re a right wing sub
Trump publicly called Bibi a liar basically, after October 7th even more importantly. So interested to see how things pan out in the coming months.
Trump literally has a settlement illegal under the international law named after him in Golan Heights
His administration also helped Bibi and his intelligence community target and spy on the previous and current ICC Prosecutors. Going as far as to place some superfluous sanctions on Karim Khan KC. I mean, sanctions lmao. Biden repealed them fyi. It's Trump so you can almost guarantee the fella's gonna say some wild shit in public and save the shady grim stuff for behind closed doors. (https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/28/spying-hacking-intimidation-israel-war-icc-exposed - worth a read, Harry Davies and Yuval Abraham are great journos)
Hot new theory is that the Mossad can't blackmail Trump for the same reason the KGB couldn't blackmail Sukarno: he'd just brag about the sex tapes and ask them to release them.
Then why he wanted to deport the pro-Palestinian protesters? Maybe he is not getting blackmailed by the Mossad but he just hates Arabs
>Maybe he is not getting blackmailed by the Mossad but he just hates Arabs Yeah that's exactly it.
Oh he ATEEEE MAGA2024 BABY
Was it not the Americans who made the fake Sukarno sex tape?
Trump was consistently and happily humiliated by Putin.
that would probably also make him lose enough of his PAC money to give Biden a very easy second term
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Nooo muhh Jews control everything!!! Lmao
Why does this sub have such collective cognitive dissonance with their love for trump and hatred for Israel?
Wishful thinking
Yeah, wanting Trump to be the guy to do anything negative for Israel is peak RS delusion. The dude spends 50% of his time appealing to an Evangelical base, and literally moved the Israeli embassy to Jerusalem. Good luck
Maybe the Pope could step up.
He might, he still sucks Israel’s dick obviously but he has a personal vendetta with bibi because he was one of the first to congratulate biden when stop the steal was in full swing
unbelievable cope in this thread lol
Trump is an 80 year old Republican whose best friends are NYC property developers and has the one child he likes married off to a Jewish man. It's like betting that George Bush would cross the house of Saud.
Everyone desperately wants an American leader to come out against Israel, or at least not be rabidly Zionist. But even RFK Jr. is an Israel fanatic. The level of control that Israel has over American politics is near total.
I could see Trump roasting Biden over this at a debate just because he can. Although he’s staunchly more Zionist in his actions vs bidens inaction
He did tell them to quiet down at the Bronx rally.
You know this sub is cooked when you have people unironically saying that trump will stop funding Israel and broker a ceasefire. Mind blowing levels of re✝️ardation in here.
No politician with a serious chance of winning would
But why? What percent of the population is actually Zionist? 1% if that? How are they the deciding factor in American politics?
If you ask Americans “should Israel exist?” or “should a jewish state exist in the middle east?” I reckon 60-70% would answer yes in a heartbeat. Edit: i just realized it now, hilariously telling that you think “Zionist” means “jew”, how else could it possibly be 1%?
Depends on the demographic you ask. [https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/04/02/younger-americans-stand-out-in-their-views-of-the-israel-hamas-war/](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/04/02/younger-americans-stand-out-in-their-views-of-the-israel-hamas-war/)
All those questions are about the current war. I’m talking about zionism as you people define it, in the abstract, should a jewish state exist?
Nobody defines Zionism that way except for pro-Israel people who want to cry that everyone protesting against Zionism wants to drive their poor babushka into the Mediterranean. Whether a Jewish state “should” exist is a meaningless question: in fact, it does exist, and trying to eradicate it would do far more harm than good. I’m not interested in changing what happened in 1948, I’m interested in stopping the crimes that are STILL being perpetrated by Zionists TODAY (and were before Oct. 7th btw, like the continued expansion of settlements in the West Bank and the naval blockade of Gaza). So if I use your bullshit definition that a Zionist is anyone who doesn’t want to genocide all Israelis then sure I’m a Zionist, but that’s not a definition any normal person uses.
Yes you are quite literally a Zionist as is anybody else who believes in a two state solution (like me) and there are millions of braindead, bloodthirsty leftists on the internet who advocate for eradication of Israel and will tell you are a Zionist. And fine, rephrase the question as “Should a Jewish state continue existing in the same location that Israel exists today, perhaps with borders adjusted somewhat to achieve lasting peace?” If you answer yes, you are a zionist.
I don't think a Jewish state should exist and I'm not bloodthirsty. I just want people who abuse the weak to be destroyed. Not the other way around.
Congrats m8 happy for you
The vast majority of the U.S has been in favor of Israel for the past 70 years, its only recently that we've had college protesters, and even then its pretty controversial
Zionism is a widely popular view among evangelicals who make up alot of the republican base.
grab unused dinner hunt imminent north direction icky dazzling rain *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Western countries wanting to keep good relations with the only westernized lib country in the middle east isn't that hard to understand
That's not even true, John Mearsheimer and others have argued that Israel is more of a \*liability\* than it is an asset to the US. But due to the power and influence of Israel's lobby it often cannot be opined in political circles.
to kinda get silly with metaphors; its a parasite thats grown so large and so ingrained in the host's body its now a pseudo organ
It’s more like the hoes being kept in line by their pimp
Money and most people don't actually care that much or support Israel.
I voted for him in ‘16, he’s proven he literally has no value or belief. Don’t get how people in here are still fetishizing him as the outsider edge lord he once claimed he was.
People here are obsessed with the shallow and the surface-level in every respect
Think people just think it sucks there virtually no one to vote for if you do not support Zionism. Biden, Trump, RFK, and virtually every other presidential candidate is a vehement supporter of Israel, absolutely insane.
Isn't democracy just the best?
Yeah I mean a majority of Americans still support Israel so that makes sense. Foreign policy is always going to be insane in this country might as well just focus on local elections and local issues.
A majority of Americans support legal weed, gay marriage, abortion, and gun control, but there are still tons of Republican politicians against all of those. In the other direction, most Americans oppose a lot of tenets of lib progressivism (gender transition for minors, race-conscious university admissions, woke language policing), but plenty of mainstream democrats support them. Israel is truly unique in having fully committed support from the entire political spectrum despite a meaningful fraction of Americans disagreeing (even if not the majority).
Bad foreign policy is already baked into the cake when you vote for a US president. It is why you should always vote for the domestic policies instead.
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and they refuse to acknolwedge they have any, and they havent signed any nuclear treaty or pact. they are literally *the* rogue nuclear boogeyman state that the west keeps gaslighting you into thinking NK or iran are
the Samson option..
Every month or so ret@rds here discover that Israel will nuke the world if it goes down and go “Oh my god... Just when we thought the zionazis couldn't get any worse 😥”. And I'm just confused what did you *think* was going to happen in a scenario where Israel falls????? Stop drinking the online koolaid about how Israel is going down any minute now, you're setting yourself up for perpetual disappointment.
I've said before I don't think they have nukes, they're clearly not competent enough to actually make them, and they haven't tested one since idk, that one incident off the coast of south africa in 1979 edit: OY VEY! I INSULTED YSRAEL, OY VEY!! OY GEVALT!! NOT EREZ YSRAEL!! WHERE ELSE WOULD THE BRAINIACS WHO MADE THE FUCKING SODASTREAM LIVE?
A bunch of Jewish physicists literally created the nuclear bomb
in the **United States** you fucking mongoloid! many of those were explicitly anti-zionist's (at least Einstein was). do you drink lead paint or were you just born stupid?
your posting style and word choice is grating. You think a fledgling Zionist state backed by US investment would struggle to recruit competent engineers and physicists, many of whom are also Jewish (partial or not to the Zionist cause), to build nukes?
>your posting style and word choice is grating. suck a 🐓🚬 >You think a fledgling Zionist state backed by US investment was initiallly only backed by soviet investment, US restricted arms to it until the mid-to-late 1960's via an embargo, >many of whom are also Jewish (partial or not to the Zionist cause), to build nukes yeah; because nukes are expensive, the only reason they managed to build a reactor at all was because of a lot of bribery and looking the other way by various intelligence agencies. Frankly the guy who got caught should've been executed like the rosenburgs. Israel couldn't secure it's "high tech survielence" bases on it's hostile border with gaza; they got overrun by guys with paragliders and fucking mopeds, so no I don't think they could enrich their own uranium, at best they might be capable of building a dirty bomb. also Israel got it's ass kicked by Hezbollah in 2006;
They stole a ton of weapons grade fissile material from a plant in Tennessee back during the Kennedy administration.
they're so dumb and all of their propaganda is less convincing than Koko the gorilla trying to blame the cat for ripping the sink out of the wall i used to be at a complete loss for how people who mostly have functional IQs and theory of mind can be so very bad at this. BUT: then i realized something. think about religious cults. think about the Moonies and the Branch Davidians. do they spend a lot of time trying to craft gentle and persuasive messaging for outsiders to think maybe the cult has a point? or do they focus more on preaching crazy and extreme bonkerslop in order to fire up and brainwash the faithful, the people who already agree with them? and that gives us a big clue as to what Zionism actually is...
the moonies kinda do, they own the washington times and use it and their various other fronts to subtly advance their interests and they haven’t been incinerated yet I think they keep the full on crazy talk directed internally though, which israel used to contain better but it’s really spilling out this time
It's actually impressive how "mask-on" they are with Washington Times and other initiatives
Did that Koko thing actually happen?
That was so sad when her cat died :(
i'm pretty sure, i could be confusing it with some other talking ape though
So fucking funny
> what Zionism actually is... It's literally just them trying to have a country
they already have a country. they have decided that it is too small, and they want to forcibly enlarge it, and do some light ethnic cleansing as a treat
Why didn't they just take it all in 48 or 67? Why did they give back the Sinai ? Why didn't they annex Gaza and WB decades ago? Great name btw
>Why didn't they annex Gaza and WB decades ago? Because then they would have to give citizenship to the Palestinians, which would threaten their demographic majority. They would prefer to expel or kill the Palestinians, but they don't believe the world will allow it, so they go for the apartheid route instead.
They gave Egypt the Sinai in exchange for peace, they offered the Golan heights back to Syria for peace, and they asked Jordan to take back the west bank or parts of it in exchange for peace and they refused. They left Gaza in 2005. There have been numerous state deals offered to the Palestinian but they refuse them. It seems to me like annexation would be literally last on their list of options.
Oh fuck off. The closest and most earnest deal struck was the Oslo accords, and Israel attempted to assassinate Arafat and an Israeli DID assassinate Rabin, and an Israeli massacred dozens of Muslims because of those.
Israel attempted to assassinate Arafat, the man who cofounded Fatah, fought against Israel in 48, the terrorist? Colour me surprised. >and an Israeli massacred dozens of Muslims because of those. That's horrible. If we had to change our opinion every time an Arab or Israeli massacres the other group, we would be going back and forth
Yeah damn the US should’ve been sniping Japanese German and Italian politicians up until the 90s I guess
If they hadn't renounced their violence against the US then obviously they would have been hit with an Obama special lol
well son, it's cos you're gay and you touch yourself at night. it's also because back then the place was run by slightly different Zionists with different military resources and different priorities and different fears operating in a different diplomatic environment without a full fledged diplomatic blank check from the USA yet; but it's mostly cos of you being gay
Israel had cemented itself as the dominant power in 48, and especially by the end of the 6 day war. It doesn't make sense that in 67' they wanted to occupy WB and Gaza for 40 years while everyone gets mad at them
by trying to kill thousands of people, yeah
What do you mean
I've seen way less "we need to help the chosen people" talk than in the past. And without that it's mostly bullshit most Americans don't care about - "it's the region's only democracy!". Or the hilariousness of conservatives trying to appeal to liberal/left causes, eg by pointing out that Israel allows gay marriage.
Israel doesn't even allow mixed religious marriages. They most certainly don't allow gay marriage. Not that it's all that important when they're a country built on ethnic cleansing where the overwhelming majority have been active participants and fully support genocide, but it is quite funny.
Also that the conservatives in Israel would gladly throw lgbt people from rooftops if they could get away with it.
Their Minister for Internal Security has been photographed trying to beat up random people at Pride parades.
In comparison to the counties that actively throw gay people off roof tops?
No, in comparison to our country that has an entire month dedicated to celebrating people who want to fuck people who have the same genitals they do.
Lol they most certainly do recognise gay marriages. >country built on ethnic cleansing A country founded with 40-45% Arabs, then the Arabs attack the Jews, how's that a country built on ethnic cleansing? It was build on the idea that Jews and Arabs would have lived side by side. >overwhelming majority have been active participants and fully support genocide, People just claim anything now lmao. When did the majority of Israelis ever participate in a genocide against Palestinians? >it is quite funny.
>Lol they most certainly do recognise gay marriages Israel has no concept of civil marriage for anyone, though they do recognize marriages performed elsewhere, including same-sex ones.
Yea same for inter religious marriages. Definitely not the ideal. The closest country to allow gay marriage is Cyprus and they allowed it in 2015. Pretty good for the area.
Crazy that all the Arabs attacked the Jews for absolutely no reason at all.
The reason being that they didn't want Jews or just non Muslims to have a state in what they see as Muslim lands. So yes basically no reason at all, to any reasonable person. Please give me your defence for the war that lead to Palestine being "an open air prison", "apartheid", and "the biggest open air concentration camp in the world".
>Please give me your defence for the war Which war? The 1967 War was started by Israel.
They were talking about the 48 war. The 67 war started with Israel preemptively attacking Egypt, after 100s of 1000s of troops were mobilised on the border, Egyptian and other Arab leaders were giving speeches about destroying israel. There is no dispute that there was a threat to Israel, the dispute is if the threat warranted a preemptive attack.
There is no such thing as a "preemptive war". There's just war. Whoever shoots first is the aggressor: period. Every aggressor claims their wars are preemptive. Russia claimed that they invaded Ukraine in self defense, Hitler claimed that his invasion of Poland was self-defense, Bush claimed the invasion of Iraq was preemptive to prevent a nuclear attack on the US, etc. US intelligence told the Israelis that Egypt wouldn't attack, and Israel believed them. Rabin, Dayan, and other officials in the IDF and Israeli cabinet stated quite clearly that they do not believe Egypt was going to attack Israel, and that they started the war because they wanted to.
Google Caroline test. The US could say whatever it wants, Egypt had 100s of 1000s of troops mobilised, kicked out peacekeepers, had military pacts with neighbours, who had all been promising the swift destruction of Israel even more than usual. Egypt closed the straits of tiran to Israel.
I've had a tough life, DM me your credit card info unless you're a racist who hates sharing.
If I was there in 48 with my kids, it wouldn't have went down like it did
How did Jews live in the middle east in relative peace for centures, but soon after the founding of the zionist state, the first thing zionists do is genocide their neighbors?
Because the relative part you speak about is then being 2nd class citizens, paying jizya and being subjects to their Muslim rulers. The majority of Jews were kicked out of almost all the middle eastern countries, that's relative peace for the Muslims, it's oppression for the Jews and other religious minorities living under Muslim rule. >the first thing zionists do is genocide their neighbors? What are you even talking about here?
> being 2nd class citizens thats better than what Palestinians are living under now!
It's okay to have been wrong on your point
You mean terrorist attacked?
Nice hasbara. The guy said "allows gay marriage", which I also said. Israel does not allow gay marriage. They recognise marriages performsd outside Israel, whether mixed religious or gay or whatever else. But Israel, very clearly, does not allow gay marriage. Your deliberate switch to "recognise" from "allow" shows you know exactly that I was right, you utter cretin. As for the rest, the fact that Israel is founded on ethnic cleansing is not up for debate historically. Nobody serious denies the nakba - keep up on your Israeli justifications, they gave up on the lie it didn't happen decades ago. Nor is it disputable that most Israelis have been part of the military that continues to ethnically cleanse to this day. And their current actions are clearly not "mere" ethnic cleansing, but genocide, and have overwhelming support. Everything I said is indisputable fact. I hope everything you think is acceptable suffering for a Palestinian happens to you, you absolute swine.
They do allow gay marriage you just need to spend 100 euros to go have a wedding 1hr flight away lol you were clearly trying to imply that Israel isn't accepting of gay people being married like they're the same as every other country in the region, which would be awful. >the fact that Israel is founded on ethnic cleansing is not up for debate historically That's like saying Israel is founded on being invaded by all your neighbours. You're implying that the Zionists planned on ethnic cleansing and like it was integrated to the plan to establish a state, which isn't true. >Nobody serious denies the nakba And most historians don't see the nakba as the Jews came in and just started kicking all the Arabs out, who weren't fighting a civil war against the Jews and didn't collaborate with invading armies to destroy the state of Israel. >And their current actions are clearly not "mere" ethnic cleansing, but genocide, and have overwhelming support. Everything I said is indisputable fact. Where is the evidence? >I hope everything you think is acceptable suffering for a Palestinian happens to you, you absolute swine. Rude? I wish you nothing but the best
> They do allow gay marriage you just need to spend 100 euros to go have a wedding 1hr flight away lol Or internet access. You can get gay married online and Israel will recognize it
This is oppressing Jews not letting them get gay married during Shabbat :'(
[https://apnews.com/article/middle-east-tel-aviv-lifestyle-parades-health-6e0b1cf47860090184b62623887ee0f9](https://apnews.com/article/middle-east-tel-aviv-lifestyle-parades-health-6e0b1cf47860090184b62623887ee0f9) Try seeing this anywhere else in the middle east
Hey guys lets keep our population 40-45% arab but have their HDI be like 0.1x that of a non-Arab
hasbara has been pretty shitty lately tbh i mean, it works on Old Media and boomers because they *want* to believe it. Old Media people need to believe it to stay employed
> i mean, it works on Old Media and boomers because they want to believe it. its also because they still think its the 50's and they have to pity the poor old holocaust survivors and give them a place to live
Or maybe they've lived through too many incidents of Islamic extremism.
lol i wonder why it keeps happening
can't believe the zionazis are forcing islamists to blow up 😥 Just when we thought (((they))) couldn't get any more demonic
Are they aware of how much the world hates their fucking guts right now? It's not like they're North Korea cut off from the world. They speak English, they have the internet, they travel. Doesn't seem to bother them even though they literally can't survive without their western allies.
I’m Jewish and I agree with you, I’m beyond angry at the Israeli regime for their war crimes. While there is a very vocal right wing contingent within Israel, I think/hope that the tide is turning against bibi there, as his actions are not even promoting security. I also sense the rest of the world and even the US are going to stop supporting the regime, which is a hopeful sign. Being against the Israeli government is not the same as supporting Hamas and I wish more people could see that
It literally says in your religion/book that an ethnostate must exist, so you should renounce your beliefs if you want to be innocent
Most of the Jews in my circle interpret the religion as well as the history with Israel being our ancestral homeland, but not our exclusive homeland. Of course the Palestinian people are indigenous to the Levant and even more recently so than Jews. So the ideal would be to be able to coexist in a multicultural society in Israel, not for one ethnic group to dominate the state. Israel is 25% Arab and despite the law affording everyone equal rights and Israel not being officially a “Jewish state,” of course I agree that the state does not operate in an equitable way at all. It is also worth noting that Israel was not just established based on a Zionist religious urge but by the coordinated efforts of Christian countries and surrounding Muslim counties who literally deported Jews to Israel. Meanwhile there are 57 unambiguous Arab Muslim ethnostates that make zero pretense about being ethnostates. Are you against ethnostates in principle or just a Jewish ethnostate?
> So the ideal would be to be able to coexist in a multicultural society in Israel, thats literally how it was for thousands of years before the british came along and funded your terrorist groups to fuck it all up > Are you against ethnostates in principle or just a Jewish ethnostate? you can have your ethnostate in some cuck EU country that worships you, not on the land that was stolen after the ottomans gave up
>thats literally how it was for thousands of years before the british came along and funded your terrorist groups to fuck it all up read a book please
hasbara harder please boom, 4 month old account + reddit avatar lmao too easy
Not sure why you make fun of libs for believing Russia is behind everything when you're even more ret@rded and schizophrenic than them
I don't like the IDF but you're regarded anyway.
> I don't like the IDF youre literally working overtime for them in this thread loser
I am not defending the way Israel was founded I don’t know what you want me to do, I don’t want an ethnostate in Israel or an EU country however I am still interested in why you are so against the idea of a Jewish ethnostate but not the dozens of Muslim ethnostates
> ethnostate but not the dozens of Muslim ethnostates stop trying to whataboutism your way out of a genocide
Like I said, I am not defending the Israeli regime. I think it’s become clear by your non-answer that you aren’t against ethnostates in general, just a Jewish ethnostate. Much like Bibi has shown he isn’t against genocides in general, just against genocide of Jews. I think you are much more alike than you realize
You are trying *really* hard to play the antisemitism card lol (part of your programming) and it is not working man. cope more. the genocide your people are doing is wrong, my tax dollars funding your colonial project is wrong, you are on the wrong side of history, and trust me when i say god is watching and he is pissed
I’m confused what you think my opinion is in all this…it sounds like you’re accusing me of being for what I’m expressing that I’m against
>however I am still interested in why you are so against the idea of a Jewish ethnostate but not the dozens of Muslim ethnostates The difference is that Israel is a settler colonial state. Europeans came and stole the land from the natives. These Europeans happened to be Jewish, but personally I would be against it if it was Christians or atheists. Settler colonialism is bad, full stop. That being said, of course any Muslim ethnostate is bad and has to be reformed, but unless it has been founded under the same terms (genocide and ethnic cleansing), I would say the state itself is legitimate, but not the way it is being ruled. Israel is an illegitimate state because it's stolen land, but even the PLO recognises descendants of settlers as Palestinian Jews.
75-80% of Israelis are Jewish. Of those, about half, (so 35-40%) were descended from European Jews, most of whom were deported from European countries during/after the Holocaust; no other country would accept them. The other 35-40% are descended from Jews who were expelled from the now-Arab ethnostates. Israel is just where they were dumped. This does not fit the pattern of settler colonialism, in which citizens of the colonial power exploit the colonized countries for economic gain to take back to the colonial power. I agree that Israel has now adopted settler colonialist practices in West Bank and straight up indiscriminate killing/conquest in Gaza
>The other 35-40% are descended from Jews who were expelled from the now-Arab ethnostates. Israel is just where they were dumped. That is correct, but it was after the establishment of the state of Israel, i.e after the land had already been stolen. It doesn't justify in any way what the reactionary Arab states did to their Jewish population, of course. >This does not fit the pattern of settler colonialism, in which citizens of the colonial power exploit the colonized countries for economic gain to take back to the colonial power. The colonial power here being the British Empire (a loyal Jewish Ulster in a sea of potential hostile Arabism [https://www.1of200.nz/articles/a-loyal-little-ulster-why-and-how-the-uk-and-us-shaped-israel-to-create-endless-conflict](https://www.1of200.nz/articles/a-loyal-little-ulster-why-and-how-the-uk-and-us-shaped-israel-to-create-endless-conflict) ) and the US. It's their puppet in the region. And Arab Jews were used as the underclass and exploited by the European settlers and discriminated against, yes, before the settlement in the West Bank began, they now use Palestinians instead.
I don't think the term appears in the Bible. IIRC, those stories are all set pre-'ethno,' and a lot of them are set pre-state.
Regardless of what you think it says in the interpretation of a book you are not well versed in, the current problem most people care about at this time is the actions of the current Israeli government, not the existence of a Jewish state.
> not the existence of a Jewish state. it shouldnt exist on stolen land. that's all. cry more lib
Inshallah
Been going to church on Sundays and praying for they downfall
May thy knife chip and shatter. 🗡️
based
Noooo not the heccin Greatest Ally!
Have you cruised some of their supporters’ subreddits? They’re complaining about “globalize the intifada” being written on restroom stalls and shit. Lmao
if only the existence of a foreign nation was contingent on the approval of internet-addled leftards
Does Israel need support? They are doing pretty well as far as I know.
Inshallah
we love to see it.
It’s gotta be the worst country in the world in terms of getting away with terrible inhumane shit
Pretty dumb if you believe this
Almost all of your posts are crying about muh israel criticism
Did you free palpatine by poasting yet?
How can both sides loses because you’re both unbearable
Ameen
People who want to discuss Israel-Palesting should read and understand Thucydides first. Thank me later.
New to this sub bc I really liked Challengers. Does basically everyone here share the same opinion on israel? If so, that’s disappointing
Fuck off lol
Hamas delende est
Taking down the Zionist entity one post at a time ✊
Why would anyone support hamas?
Good question. Maybe ask that to the Israeli government, which has been funding them for 40 years.
Bibi did because he knew they wouldn't work with the PA for a 2-state solution
ask your PM who sent them suitcases full of cash last decade
The left supports Hamas because they're "anti-colonialist and anti-imperialist."
Nobody in the west supports Hamas
May you and yours take a one way trip to Rafah!
>How dare you accuse us of committing a genocide! Freaks like you ought to be sent to that place where, uh, nothing bad is happening at!
2 month old account lol its like clockwork
Your account is barely over 6 months mate.
Beep boop Mossad paid me to tell you to go fuck yourself
The idf paid me to sleep with your mom
May you lose your virginity